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Archerfish, and marine
tanks... sys. 1/6/2008
Crew.
<Bob,>
I was having discussion on whether archerfish could tolerate full marine
salinity. Not being any kind of expert with any knowledge of archerfish I found
this link:
http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/verts/archer_fish.htm
<A nice page, but do note this page is talking specifically about Toxotes
jaculatrix. There are something like half a dozen or so species in the
archerfish family Toxotidae, and the majority of species are strictly or mostly
FRESHWATER fish. Only two are euryhaline brackish water fish, Toxotes chatareus
and Toxotes jaculatrix.>
Which stated:
"Breeding: It is believed that only the juveniles are found in brackish water
while the adults are more solitary and swim out to the coral reefs to breed.
20,000-150,000 eggs are laid. Only a few reach maturity in 1-2 years. Young fish
have iridescent yellow patches on their upper body between the dark bands, which
perhaps helps them to school together in the muddy waters. As they get older,
patches disappear and the black bands get shorter and eventually only seen on
the uppermost part of the body"
<Hmm... the breeding behaviour of all members of the Toxotidae is very obscure.
The story that they breed on coral reefs, or at least in the sea, has been
around for a while and may well apply to Toxotes chatareus and Toxotes
jaculatrix. But field observations are lacking, and it certainly isn't true for
the freshwater species such as T. blythi that live far inland.>
So I guess so.
Another person posted this from WetWebMedia page:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracsystems.htm_
<This would be me.>
"Low salinity brackish water can be defined as water with a specific gravity (or
SG) between 1.002 to 1.005. Two sorts of fish can be kept in low salinity water:
true brackish water species that need slightly brackish water, and species that
are really freshwater fish but happen to be tolerant of slightly brackish water.
Among the true, low salinity brackish water fish are orange and green Chromides,
figure-8 pufferfish, pike livebearers, and knight gobies. Freshwater fish that
happen to tolerate brackish water include spiny eels, Kribensis, glassfish, the
archerfish Toxotes microlepis, and Florida flagfish. Bumblebee gobies and
mollies are difficult to place in either group, because in the wild both occur
primarily in fresh water. However, in aquaria, they seem to do better when kept
in slightly brackish water."
<My article there refers to Toxotes microlepis, a species that enters slightly
brackish water in parts of its range but is otherwise a true freshwater fish. It
tolerates low salinities, but as salinity goes up, becomes distinctly nervous
and stressed.>
There would seem to be some inconsistencies between these two articles.
<Nope, not at all. They're talking about two different species. Simply because
they're in the same genus, Toxotes, doesn't mean they have identical
requirements. Indeed, what these archerfish effectively do is "divide up"
ecological space between them. One species (T. jaculatrix) inhabits mangroves
and river mouths, and the other (T. microlepis) lives in the river proper.>
Perhaps because the WWM article was aimed at people keeping brackish tanks. I
know from experience that mollies do better with brackish water but the article
is silent on full marine tanks.
<On the whole, Archers do not like to be kept in marine tanks. Toxotes chatareus
and Toxotes jaculatrix can be kept best at SG 1.010 or thereabouts, and all the
other species at less than SG 1.005, in some cases preferably in straightforward
hard, neutral to alkaline freshwater.>
Mollies in my experience thrive and breed at marine salinities. Some aquarium
shops even use then to keep the bioload up while awaiting shipments.
<Indeed. But this is different, because Mollies are hybrids, while Archerfish
are rather a selection of species that come from different habitats. Toxotes
chatareus, Toxotes jaculatrix, and T. microlepis are all widely traded but
rarely identified correctly by retailers. Telling them apart is important if you
want to optimise living conditions, though SG 1.005 will suit them all just fine
if you can't separate them.>
I just wondered what your thoughts are and whether archerfish can be kept at
marine salinities.
<There's no real advantage to doing this, and unless you can securely identify
the specimens in your tank, I wouldn't risk it. Stick a freshwater archer in a
marine tank and you'll probably kill it. At the very least, it won't be very
happy.>
Bob
<Cheers, Neale.>
55 gallon saltwater setup, & Archer sys... 4/15/07
Hi, I currently purchased a used 55g bowfront aquarium. Also included
were 2 powerfilters (1 filters 60 gallons and the other I THINK filters 45), 1
undergravel filter, a DE filter (I have never heard of these filters for
aquariums, it looks like my pool filter but on a smaller scale!)
<Ah, this is what it is... a Diatomaceous Earth filter... for periodic
(non-continuous) use... See Vortex Products site on the Net, WWM re... >
several heaters, air pumps, and other accessories. What I would like to do is
setup a saltwater aquarium for a Spot-finned lionfish (Pterois antennata) and a
green wolf eel starting now and finishing by the end of the summer. Is my tank
big enough for the species I have selected?
<Mmm, not really indefinitely...>
Which filter would you recommend using?
<All the power filters, likely the undergravel... but you need much more useful
knowledge...
http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm>
I have been told to use a mix of live sand and crushed coral for the substrate,
is this ok?
<Can/could be>
I really don't want a lot of fish that will overcrowd my tank so I think I
will most likely stick with the two I already mentioned, but, to keep my
options open, are there any other fish that would suit my setup?
<... many>
What is a good online retailer to get them from?
<Posted...>
Also, I have a 30g brackish aquarium with a puffer* and a needle nose gar that
has been setup for 1 year. I would like to add a couple of archers and a
screen section to the top for feed items like crickets for the archers. the
puffer is 4 inches and the gar is 6 inches (neither have grown in several
months). Would this be a suitable setup?
<Not likely room enough... Toxotids need more "running" room than this
arrangement>
Thank you for all your time and help.
K. Sned
* The puffer was given to me by a friend who bought him from a LFS as a "black
river puffer". She kept him in a 2.5g freshwater tank (YIKES) with a couple of
Monos (DOUBLE YIKES) as she was told this was a "more than suitable" setup by
the LFS. When I got the puffer he was very dull and had cloudy eyes.
I put him in a 10g hospital tank for several weeks and began to gradually add
instant ocean. I had to entice him to eat with ghost shrimp which he started
taking after a week when he refused all other foods. He is now a bright
brown-almost-gold with spots, a white underbelly, and yellow on his sides.
His eyes are clear and they are a bright blue surrounded by a reddish orange.
<Read my friend... learn to/use the indices, search tool on WWM... MUCH related
material is organized, archived there for alls perusal, growth, sharing. Bob
Fenner>
Puffers & Archers 10/10/06
<Hi Ben, Pufferpunk here>
I am setting up a second tank and I would like to try brackish. I have been
looking at figure of 8 puffers and archer fish such as Toxotes microlepis, a
small scale archerfish which grows smaller than the rest. I have a 125ltr second
tank but could upgrade my second tank up to 190ltr, if I did upgrade what
stocking could I expect to keep if compatible. T. microlepis is hard to find, so
if I got the common archer which is larger, would this also cause problems in a
190ltr tank?
<Yes, since this fish can grow to a foot, it would not be happy in that size
tank. I would stick to 3-4 F8 puffers & BW gobies.>
Thanks for any help you can advise
<Please try proper capitalization in your next letter.
Good article on F8s:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html
Check out the other articles there & the forum also has more info. ~PP>
Best Regards Ben
Archer in Freshwater With Lip Fungus 1/25/2006
Hello, my name is Ruben,
<<Hello Ruben.>>
I've been trying to get back into brackish aquariums, and started by purchasing
a juvenile archer about 12 days ago and placed it
in a 29-gallon freshwater (converting to brackish soon) tank.
<<Increase SG no more than .002/week to avoid crashing your
bio-filtration. Also keep in mind that you will need a bigger tank in the
future, preferably sooner than later.>>
The tank has been running for well over a year, but it had a trio of salvini
cichlids until I removed them
when I brought the archer. My pH is 7.8, ammonia is 0 and nitrite is about
0.<<?>> The water quality seems fine
to me. However, I noticed the archer had a slight injury on its lower lip, as if
it ran into the aquarium
side or something like that. But on 1/25 I noticed that there is a piece of skin
or something threadlike
hanging from the injury and the appearance of the fungus-like fuzziness. The
archer is still eating,
it's been eating frozen Hikari ocean plankton (krill?) quite vigorously.
<<Good.>>
I'm still concerned about how to treat this, because I've done my water changes
and kept the water healthy, and I assumed the injury would have healed itself,
not gotten worse (unless it re-injured it, which I guess isn't that likely?).
I've considered raising the salinity, but I'm not sure if that really would cure
the infection.
<<This is exactly what I would suggest, as per amount stated above. Be sure to
keep water as pristine as possible.>>
I assumed the freshwater disease couldn't tolerate salty water. Do you guys
recommend any specific treatment or medication? I really need assistance on
this, thank you!
Have a great day.
<<You too. Glad to help. Lisa.>>
Brackish beginner - 12/11/05
Hi, I'm an slightly experienced freshwater owner.
<Hello... John here this evening>
After quitting the hobby for four and a half years, I'm ready for more! I was
planning on making a freshwater aquarium with tetras, platies, and all the
skittish fish. But I read a really neat article about Archer Fish. It appealed
to me, and now I am seriously considering turning a 36x12x21" (40 gal) tank into
a brackish aquarium. Is keeping a brackish fish difficult for a person like me?
<I don't know you ;)... but, no, it shouldn't be.>
Some other fish I'd like are monos, bumblebees, scats, and puffers.
<These can't go in together... a 40g is too small for monos or scats. Most
puffers are best kept alone.>
If they grow too large, then I won't get them, but I'd really like Archer fish.
<I would recommend a larger system for archers... 55 gallons minimum... even
larger is better, due to their size and need to be kept in groups..>
And one thing: I'm an 8th grader with a $10 allowance weekly, so tell me if I
could afford it, too.
<I suggest you look into smaller fish - a couple of figure-eight puffers or a
few bumblebee gobies for this system.>
Thanks ahead of time for your valuable response!
<You're welcome! Best regards, John.>
New Archer / Brackish or Salt tank?
Hello all, thanks for your time.
<And you for yours>
New to WWM, but have been reading here for some time. I have experience enjoying various African FW species of fish. 10 yrs ago I
had a 39gal FW tank with a "BioWheel" and "Magnum canister filter", also under gravel with lots of plants and natural cover. Interested in
getting back into it again, but I am ready to move to a brackish / salt setup. I have been diving for 15+ years and now I live in Florida and
want to set up an archer tank. I am inspired by the Waikiki aquarium for their reef display, while also reading all I can find about growing
mangroves.
<Have seen, admired this tank, system many times. Have some pix of the fishes in there on WWM>
WWM and elsewhere have been good resources so far regarding research for setup of a new brackish / marine system for our
living room. However, now I am stuck, and request your assistance estimating setup.
Ideally a 220-450 gallon saltwater tank incorporating mangroves, sea grass, live sand, live rock, driftwood and eventually archers.
<Neat!>
I have considered a flatter style acrylic tank 60x60x30. The idea is to simulate a "standing in water" perspective for the viewer, looking
toward a planted shoreline with the back of the tank open above the sand bank for the mangroves growth. I plan to suspend them for root
growth initially and then plant them partially submerged.
I have read in various areas on WWM and other websites that 4-6 inches of sand is recommended for live sea grass, and that the mangroves will
grow in the same medium. Also, that the archers are primarily brackish water fish,
<Mmm, as young... more full marine as adults>
but after speaking with the Waikiki aquarium manager he stated that they are now doing fine in full salt at the new setup they
are using at the aquarium, hence the idea to go salt instead of brackish. Imitation is the finest form of flattery. I would like a
similar setup. Admittedly, I lack the knowledge, on my own at this point, to set it up alone.
I would like to use a "recommended" WWM staff step by step method for starting this project ideally. I am not afraid of DIY projects and
would like to contribute the findings of successes / failures to your readers.
Here are my questions:
What is the most ideal, low maintenance, natural filtration that would support this system?
<A living sump outside the main display... with the addition of an easy to clean canister filter (Eheim, my choice) for easily adding chemical filtrants, mechanically "polishing" the water>
I would love to set up something with live rock, but don't know about size of refugium for water quality, filtration issues?
<Live rock (with lighting) is excellent, refugium as large as possible>
Other thoughts include necessary lighting,
<Lighting can be of a few sorts... Boosted fluorescents, possibly with one, two metal halides, all on an arrangement that can be raised over time...>
and how and where to drill/plumb this orientation of tank.
<Likely stand pipes (sleeved) through fittings from the bottom will be best here... easiest to modify, service...>
How to imitate circulation of water if the tank is only half full for feeding the archers.
<Discharges can be fitted over, through the sides, even the bottom if you'd like... circular water movement best>
I am waiting for delivery of "Natural Reef Aquariums" and Anthony Calfo's book on "Reef Invertebrates" that I think will address many of
these issues. Right now I'm trying to get a jumpstart on where to look for areas that many not be addressed in this book.
<Mmm, you have a good set of ideas, beginnings here... the place where you will situate this system... strong enough, perhaps overhead natural lighting? Electrical, water, drain access? Maybe an adjoining room to place mechanicals, controllers?>
Please give me your suggestions.
Thanks in advance, great resource, keep on keepin' on you guys/gals are great.
I also posted some of this question initially in the brackish forum, in hopes others might help.
<I do hope they will chime in as well. Jeni/Pufferpunk of our crew likely has many worthwhile suggestions. Bob Fenner>
New Archer / Brackish or Salt tank?
Hello all, thanks for your time.
<And you for yours>
New to WWM, but have been reading here for some time. I have experience enjoying various African FW species of fish. 10 yrs ago I
had a 39gal FW tank with a "Biowheel" and "Magnum canister filter", also under gravel with lots of plants and natural cover. Interested in
getting back into it again, but I am ready to move to a brackish / salt setup. I have been diving for 15+ years and now I live in Florida and
want to set up an archer tank. I am inspired by the Waikiki aquarium for their reef display, while also reading all I can find about growing
mangroves.
<Have seen, admired this tank, system many times. Have some pix of the fishes in there on WWM>
WWM and elsewhere have been good resources so far regarding research for setup of a new brackish / marine system for our
living room. However, now I am stuck, and request your assistance estimating setup.
Ideally a 220-450 gallon saltwater tank incorporating mangroves, sea grass, live sand, live rock, driftwood and eventually archers.
<Neat!>
I have considered a flatter style acrylic tank 60x60x30. The idea is to simulate a "standing in water" perspective for the viewer, looking
toward a planted shoreline with the back of the tank open above the sand bank for the mangroves growth. I plan to suspend them for root
growth initially and then plant them partially submerged.
I have read in various areas on WWM and other websites that 4-6 inches of sand is recommended for live sea grass, and that the mangroves will
grow in the same medium. Also, that the archers are primarily brackish water fish,
<Mmm, as young... more full marine as adults>
but after speaking with the Waikiki aquarium manager he stated that they are now doing fine in full salt at the new setup they
are using at the aquarium, hence the idea to go salt instead of brackish. Imitation is the finest form of flattery. I would like a
similar setup. Admittedly, I lack the knowledge, on my own at this point, to set it up alone.
I would like to use a "recommended" WWM staff step by step method for starting this project ideally. I am not afraid of DIY projects and
would like to contribute the findings of successes / failures to your readers.
Here are my questions:
What is the most ideal, low maintenance, natural filtration that would support this system?
<A living sump outside the main display... with the addition of an easy to clean canister filter (Eheim, my choice) for easily adding chemical filtrants, mechanically "polishing" the water>
I would love to set up something with live rock, but don't know about size of refugium for water quality, filtration issues?
<Live rock (with lighting) is excellent, refugium as large as possible>
Other thoughts include necessary lighting,
<Lighting can be of a few sorts... Boosted fluorescents, possibly with one, two metal halides, all on an arrangement that can be raised over time...>
and how and where to drill/plumb this orientation of tank.
<Likely stand pipes (sleeved) through fittings from the bottom will be best here... easiest to modify, service...>
How to imitate circulation of water if the tank is only half full for feeding the archers.
<Discharges can be fitted over, through the sides, even the bottom if you'd like... circular water movement best>
I am waiting for delivery of "Natural Reef Aquariums" and Anthony Calfo's book on "Reef Invertebrates" that I think will address many of
these issues. Right now I'm trying to get a jumpstart on where to look for areas that many not be addressed in this book.
<Mmm, you have a good set of ideas, beginnings here... the place where you will situate this system... strong enough, perhaps overhead natural lighting? Electrical, water, drain access? Maybe an adjoining room to place mechanicals, controllers?>
Please give me your suggestions.
Thanks in advance, great resource, keep on keepin' on you guys/gals are great.
I also posted some of this question initially in the brackish forum, in hopes others might help.
<I do hope they will chime in as well. Jeni/Pufferpunk of our crew likely has many worthwhile suggestions. Bob Fenner>
Can archerfish be kept in seawater?
I just read your very nice web page on archerfish.
I'm wondering whether you know how well they fare in 100% seawater,
100% of the time? I know they can be found in full strength seawater
in the wild, but I don't know whether they can live under those
conditions continuously (my guess is they can, but I don't know for
sure).
<I have seen Toxotes joculator kept in all-marine water, but this was not a
permanent placement... and as far as I'm aware all archerfish species are either
freshwater or tend from fresh to brackish. Not totally marine>
I'd love to add a compartment to my large reef system (in my teaching
lab) especially for archerfish (an extra tank plumbed into the main
system...this would make life much easier since I would not have to
worry about maintaining water quality in a separate system, and the
extra tank could function to some extent as a refugium for some very
small creatures that the archers would likely ignore).
Thanks,
Bill Capman
<Worth trying, but I don't think this will work out long-term. Am going to
send your message to Ananda (much more versed at brackish topics than I) for her
input. Bob Fenner>
Bill Capman
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