Freshwater refugium, co2 questions 12/07/2007
hello;
<Hello.>
I own a 125 gallon freshwater aquarium with 12 Corys, 2 bushy Plecos, 8 upside-down cats, 2 pictus cats, 4 paradise gouramis, 4 African butterfly fish, and 15 tiger barbs. the tank is heavily planted with java ferns, swords, water sprite and moneywort. there are 2 36" compact fluorescent lights on top. I made a 20 gallon wet/dry filter and connected it under the tank with a hob spillover box. the whole thing has been set up for 3 years now and I have had no problems to speak of.
<OK.>
I am now thinking of turning my tank into a discus tank, as well as adding co2. I have been doing a lot of research on-line, but I still have a few questions. a friend of mine has a cool refugium he made and filled with a milfoil of some type. I was thinking this would be a good step to take before getting the discus (I plan on first removing the barbs, gouramis and butterfly's to make room).
<Butterflyfish actually work quite well with Discus, the two species completely ignoring each other. Your real problems will be with things like Synodontis and Pimelodus, which are a bit too active and nippy to really work well with Discus. Paradisefish (Macropodus opercularis) won't appreciate the super-hot water Discus like either.>
eventually I want 12 discus. my plan was to simply raise my wet/dry up about a foot and place a 20 gallon plastic bin next to it and use a siphon or spill box to transfer water. then place my water pump in the plastic bin. is this a good idea?
<In theory, yes. But do remember the more splashing and water circulation, the more quickly the CO2 will leave the water. High levels of CO2 are good for plants, but fish aren't crazy about them. In general, it's often better to focus on either plants or fish. If you look at the 'Nature Aquarium' type set-ups, fish play a very minor role, and the stocking level is very low. Discus are quite demanding fish, and your time is better spent focusing on water changes, water quality, etc. Discus don't like bright lights either, limiting your selection somewhat, unless you provide lots of shade from the very start.>
then I want to use a small compact fluorescent over the refugium and set it to run at night. what are some good plants for a refugium?
<Almost anything. Floating plants that grow fast and are easy to crop work best, and algae best of all.>
do I have to add any substrate?
<Nor for algae of floating plants.>
I would prefer not to. I also want to add a co2 system. does it make more sense to add the co2 before I get the discus, or after?
<I'd get it first, so that you learn how to keep a constant pH, which adding CO2 tends to work against. Once you have the perfect balance of pH with CO2 concentration, and your plants are all thriving, then get your discus.>
all co2 systems I have seen come with a bubble counter and diffuser.
are these things really necessary?
<Yes.>
my plan is to just use a cheap foam bubble wand and place it in the bottom of the bio chamber in my wet/dry.
<Won't work. CO2 is largely insoluble in water, hence the need to maximise the time the CO2 is in contact with the water. That's what the bubble box thing does. It stops the CO2 from bubbling up to the surface too fast. You're also going to have real problems keeping a constant CO2 level if you do it by eye. Adding CO2 at random will do no good to your plants, since they respond only to steady changes in conditions, not sudden ones. Obviously adding too much CO2 will harm your fish by reducing the pH.>
will that be harmful to the bacteria?
<Filter bacteria don't like acidic water, so anything that reduces pH is bad for them. Once the pH gets to 6 or less, they stop working.>
if so, were is the best place to add the co2?
<Doesn't matter, so long as the CO2 level is constant.>
will having a refugium light at night, and plants growing in the day allow me to run co2 24 hours?
<You probably don't want to do this. A 12 hours on, 12 hours off system should work better. Most plants need a dark period, and don't thrive under constant illumination.>
if so can I use a regulator without a solenoid.
<No idea.>
my water is moderately hard, will I need an RO filter, or will this setup be sufficient?
<Depends on the fish being kept. But as a rule, moderately hard water with a neutral pH is fine for captive-bred Discus. Wild-caught Discus are a different matter. In any case, the KH and pH are critical factors in determining how much CO2 to add to the water, so you will need to measure those and act accordingly.>
I really appreciate any advise you guys can give.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Lighting and pump selection questions 12/1/07
Hey guys, you are great. Really appreciate the website and the time you take.
<Hello Paul, thank you.>
I've got a few questions in different areas that I couldn't find final answers to on WWM.
I am setting up 120g (4x2x2) glass freshwater rainbow/Pleco tank. It will have some plants, but pretty easy stuff to deal with – anacharis, java moss, java fern, hornwort. I've been able grow these in other tanks without typical plant substrate (attaching to lace rock and Mopani), so expecting to be able to do the same with this tank, assuming I can get enough light down to them. It will have a black back. Substrate will be med brown. Lace rock and Mopani will be used liberally.
<OK>
First question is lighting. From what I can gather, watts from florescent strips (T12) to T5/T8/HO/VHO to power compact to metal halide are not created equal. I.e., you can't just compare wattage output. Some create more heat; some penetrate into water better; some are more efficient, etc.
<Correct.>
I've got 3 48" dual lamp T12 florescent housings with electronic ballasts from a garage tear down that are fairly new. I could easily put these inside a DIY canopy for a 240 watt set up. I've been experimenting with 'daylight' bulbs from local Home Depot that are rated at 6500K color temperature and have been pleasantly surprised. These bulbs for 40w T12 run about $5 each.
<This could work assuming the bulbs have an adequate CRI and you take steps to waterproof the fixtures.>
I can get a 4x65w (I think that is the wattage) power compact fixture locally for $150 or so. The price of power compact bulbs seems to be the most expensive per watt, though.
<They can get pricey to replace bulbs.>
Another option is to pick up a T5 or T8 set up. I've found one I like locally that is 4x54w T5 for about $180, bulbs included. The output is 216w or so, but the reflectors are much better than the T12 strips I have, so I would suspect the T5's are getting as much light to the tank, if not more (am I wrong on this?). I can also pick up a similar T8 set up for about the same money.
<The T5’s will have superior reflectors. These would be my choice, perhaps with one additional bulb. With these lights it is easy enough to add additional bulbs on individual reflectors should you want or need more light later. >
Another option is to pick up two MH's. I can pick up some decent one's locally for about $140/each.
<I wouldn’t in this situation.>
I've also thought about putting a bunch of sockets with some compact fluorescents with 'daylight' bulbs. Would these be any good?
<Possible, I would stick with the T5.>
So what would you go with if this was your tank? I am concerned about power usage, replacement bulb cost, bulb life, ability to 'penetrate' to lower depths, heat from bulbs and ballasts, etc. Last, what is a pulse start ballast/bulb with metal halides? Does it matter what you get?
<Probe start bulbs have an igniter to light the lamp built into the bulb, not the ballast. The pulse starts have just the opposite built in. The bulbs should be used with their respective ballasts.>
Now onto pumps. I am running a sump. I am looking at pumps. I have two 2" drains in overflow boxes and a 1" return. The LFS I like best in town, who has never led me astray and has been 'right' about everything so far, carries Iwaki, CoralLife (or is it CoralSea?) Gen-X and a few others. They readily admit they make more money on the Iwaki and CoralLife, but say they like the Gen-X very, very much, and a number of the employees say they have them at home and stand by them 100%. Anyone know anything about these pumps? If price wasn't an option, if you were looking for 1000-1200 gph at 4.5' head, what pump would you buy? Why? If you needed to save a little cash (say, under $200), what pump would you buy? Why?
<Sump style filtration is not optimal for planted tanks due to the outgassing of CO2, but they can work. Consider lowering your flow through the sump to a few tank turnovers an hour to help this. I would personally stick with an Iwaki here just for the reliability of the pumps. They just run a long time with little or no maintenance. If you choose to go with a lower flow rate, consider a quality submersible such as an Eheim.>
Last, for drilling sump, should I drill hole on side wall as low as I can safely? Should I drill in bottom (I can elevate sump slightly and plumb from bottom, but these seems potentially a PITA that isn't worth it). Should I just plumb bulkhead to input to pump, or should I put some plumbing inside sump (like 90d elbow down off bulkhead to reach down into the sump further)?
<The latter option will work fine.>
Thanks for all the help.
Paul
<Welcome, good luck, Scott V.>

Re: Lighting and pump selection questions 12/5/07
What about ditching the trickle filter (via sump and bio balls or bio bale), and attaching fluidized bed to the sump. Considering price of bio balls, really isn't much of a jump to the fluidized bed.
<You could, this could theoretically decrease your CO2 out gassing.>
I also hear that because they agitate some much, the detritus accumulation will be almost nil, <Ideally with some sort of mechanical filtration first. You will end up with a layer of detritus in the fluidized bed, probably floating on top of the media. It would get accumulated by the bioballs anyhow. You will be able to siphon it off in the fluidized bed.>
necessitating cleaning at a rate of *maybe* once a  year. This definitely
appeals to me (I am tired of cleaning canister and HOB filters).
<Understood, me too. Good luck, Scott V.>

Freshwater sumps  11/28/2007
Hello again.
You have been very helpful so far and I feel bad about pestering you for info but again there seems to be a lack of info on this subject.
I am converting from marine to freshwater (most people go the other way) and have a sump which I want to use with this system. The tank is about 500ltrs with a 100 ltr sump.
My question (to finally get to the point) is what would you recommend to put in the sump. Currently the first section is bio balls, then miracle mud with colerpera (sorry about the spelling) and finally live rock with a live sand bed. I know the live sand will 'die' and the live rock would be a waste. I was thinking about keeping the bio balls but replacing the mud with gravel and some sort of plants. The main section was to be changes to gravel.
Have you any suggestions with what I am proposing. Any help gratefully received.
Many thanks
Paul.
<Hello Paul. Unless you're keeping a hard water aquarium for, say, Tanganyikan cichlids then don't leave anything calcareous in the sump. For a standard community tank or similar, then opting for biological filter media of some type is probably the way forward. More bio-balls or some sponges would work well. Because nitrate control in freshwater systems is both easier (plants, water changes) than in marine tanks and less critical (freshwater fish largely nitrate-tolerant) there's no real need to provide denitrification in a freshwater tank. But some people have very effectively used 'vegetable filters' and 'algal scrubbers' as part of the filtration system, by placing fast-growing plants/algae into a brightly-illuminated chamber. There's a book called "Dynamic Aquaria" that discusses these, among other such esoteric topics. While hardly a book for the casual aquarist, it's an interesting read if your library has a copy. Basically the idea is that you optimise plant/algal growth, and then crop the plants (even daily!) effectively removing wastes in "solid form". Some freshwater plants, such as Cabomba and various floating plants, will grow incredibly rapidly if provided optimal conditions. I hope this helps, Neale.>

Stepping up to 90 gal with sump 10/28/07
Greetings Crew,
<Hello, Scott V. here.>
First of all I truly appreciate the wealth of knowledge available within your postings and website. I have enjoyed the hobby of keeping aquariums since 2001 when I began with a 20 gallon freshwater tank.
For the last three years I have maintained a 55 gallon tall octagonal fresh water tank, currently with 3 parrot cichlids, 3 silver dollars, 4 tiger barbs, bristle nosed Pleco, and a Botia. I would like to set up a 90 gallon industry standard tank and for the first time, use a DIY sump filtration system.
<Nice step up and the sump makes servicing much easier. >
I am new to the sump system but am beginning to wrap my mind around the concept. <Excellent> I would like to use a 20 gallon long tank to be the sump with the equivalent of a 400 gph (at 4 feet rise to the tank) pump. Does this sound sufficient to prevent flooding?
<Flooding would depend on your tank’s transit volume, how much flows back into your sump due to water in your plumbing and siphon from your return.>
I am unsure what to use for the best biological filtration. Are bioballs or a BioWheel best to purchase?? Is gravel a good choice if put in the refugium?? What is the best for a beginner?
<I am a fan of BioWheels, but you could use the balls. If you want a planted refugium section, I’d take a look at the peat/African violet soil type mixes. You can read more on substrates at http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/nicebottoms.htm. If you are not planting in the sump I would not include any substrate, to facilitate cleaning.>
Ideally, I would like to build my own sump, but I know of an offer for a reasonably priced 6 month used commercial filter
(http://www.carolinafishtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22187#22187).?
Allegedly this filter is for a 400 gallon aquarium.? Is it worth considering for my 90 gallon set up?? Seeing as it would fit in my cabinet, would it be too large of a filter for my 90 gallon tank?? Or is it advisable to create my own sump?
<Would work, don’t worry about over filtering. But, building your own can be an awful lot of fun and very satisfying, don’t discount your ability to build one that will not only work fine, but will better suit your specific application and needs.>
Finally, I am researching a Megaflow 90 gallon tank.? I have heard good reports about the double paned overflow, but I believe the drilled holes are in the bottom of the tank.? Is it a bad idea to get a tank with drilled holes in the bottom of the tank?? Is there anything that could be done to improve on such a tank?
Thank you kindly for any assistance or direction. I am in the learning and planning process.
<At your flow rate the preinstalled overflow will be near its safe limit, but will work. Holes in the bottom of the tank allow you to get the tank close to wall (in some instances totally against the wall). The possible downside is a leak. Both the overflow and bulkhead would have to leak, but if they did that’s a lot of water. It is rare, but can happen. There are two other options. First, a hang on back siphon overflow. They use a siphon created by a powerhead or pump vacuum to function. If the siphon is broken, water is on the floor. The other option is an overflow box or elbow near the top. This has the advantage of a gravity fed overflow and if a leak were to develop it doesn’t involve all the tank’s water. See http://www.momsfishsupply.com/photos.html for some ideas, but I think the Megaflow is probably the best option for your application. Hope this helps, thank you Scott V.>