White cloud with growing black markings
Evening all,
<Good evening, Rosa! Sabrina here tonight>
You've always been helpful and on target in the past and after doing a lot of
searching, with no answers, thought you might come to the rescue, yet again...
<Thank you for the kind words - and we'll sure try>
I have a question about white cloud minnows- I have had 2 for about a year now,
they are yellow and white, with black specks and markings. Hearty,
fun, and social. They share a planted tank (15 gallon fresh) with
some otos, harlequin rasboras and cherry barbs. Recently I added 3
clowns to fish tank who at first were pretty dominant and stressed out other
fish for a while- now they are all alright with each other and the clowns sit at
bottom of tank, or hang out in driftwood, and leave other fish alone.
<I assume you mean clown loaches? Clown loaches get enormous, over
time. You might want to consider a smaller loach species, or plan on
upgrading tank size eventually. At least clown loaches are very slow
growers, so you're okay for now.>
Soon after all this I noticed that the markings on one of my white clouds were
getting darker- the black specks were getting deeper in color and actually
bigger. Nothing else wrong with fish, no ich or anything like that- just that
its original black specks - actually one in particular on its back- is just a
lot longer. The fish is fine- eats, hangs out with other fish, but I
wondered about this. Is there some kind of skin disease or perhaps
stress, or maybe just 'normal'- perhaps markings just increase with age?
<It's hard to tell without seeing the fish; if there's any way you could get
us a picture, that'd be great. Otherwise, do a google search on their
Latin name, Tanichthys albonubes, and compare yours with pictures of others;
that may at least help you to see if the coloration is normal or not.>
If you could help me out here I'd appreciate it- I'm always checking on this
fish and just a bit worried- would like to know that it's nothing- or, if it is
something, what I should do. Thanks, Rosa Haritos
White cloud with growing black markings - part II
Hi Sabrina- thanks for response.
<No prob.>
I'm actually going to SF, CA for business trip tomorrow and I won't be back
until 25th- I CAN send a photo of fish and will, when I get back.
<Ah, welcome to my neck of the world.>
Haven't found ANYTHING using Latin Name- tried it-- just pix of ich's disease-
and I know it's not that.
<Try this: http://images.google.com/images?q=Tanichthys+albonubes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search
. Should give you lots of pics of White Clouds.>
Yup, clown loaches. It was actually someone at WetWeb who told me they are great
snail eaters- and they get big, but as you say, slowly. So I bought 3 - so they
wouldn't be lonely, and GUESS WHAT- no way did they eat snails!!
<Now THAT is stunning. I've NEVER seen a clown loach turn its nose
up at snails!! It might just be that they needed some time to settle
in, first; also, don't feed them other food for a few days, and they should dig
right in.>
Even when I crushed them and put then right next to them--so I had to pick at
snails for a whole week to get rid of an infestation. I asked LFS and they said
they would exchange for zebra loach- which is suppose to be more aggressive re
snails, but peaceful for the tank--and smaller.
<Well, smaller, yes; but I think these have pretty much the same temperament
as clown loaches. Mine certainly do, anyway. And though
they certainly chow down on snails (took all of two weeks for three zebra
loaches in my 72g to rid me of all my snails), clown loaches are reportedly much
better snail eradicators.>
BUT my son, who is 6, fell in love with these fish and pleaded not to trade em.
so I'm stuck.
<Heh, at least you're stuck with a nice type of fish!>
Thanks re white minnow - I'll send photo when I get back. If you find anything
in meantime, I'd appreciate it.
<Well, I'm afraid it's not so much a matter of finding anything; there's just
so many things that it could be. Stress, normal coloration, etc. I
do look forward to helping you figure this out once you've got a picture for us! Wishing
you well, -Sabrina>
Thanks again, best Rosa
New Fish, What Kind To Get?
What if i were to forget about the Betta Fish and just do tetras? Is there a
fish that will go well in a 5 gallon tank that will do well tetras? All i want
is to have sum pretty fish in my tank that will do well! Also what are the
appropriate levels for he ammonia and nitrates or whatever and if there are high
how do i take care of that?
<<Hello. Good fish to keep with bettas would be white cloud mountain
minnows. Nice, red fins and pretty stripes. The appropriate levels for ammonia
and nitrites are zero. For nitrates, as low as possible, not higher than 50ppm.
If they are higher, you need to do more partial water changes until they are
within range. -Gwen>>
Pregger White Clouds?
I have three white clouds (along with some other community fish) in a
heavily
planted 29 gallon tank. Two of three appear "fat" with a very robust
abdomen.
The third looks skinny (healthy, just not fat). My kids keep asking if they
are pregnant. I had to tell them yes but I really have no idea. They have been
increasing in girth for the past month or so. If they are pregnant what can I
expect? Brian
<<Hello. White clouds will generally breed in cooler water, around 70F.
The female will lay eggs on plant leaves. Once you have seen the fish spawn, you
should remove the parents (and other fish) so they don't eat the fry. The fry
will be tough to keep alive unless you can provide micro-foods (microscopic
sized). If it interests you, there are websites where you can find info on
growing foods like infusoria, live baby brine shrimp, etc, all the basic feeding
info for fish fry. The females will grow round bellies when they are full of
eggs, but there is no guarantee that the male is fertilizing the eggs. If the
fish are not pregnant, there is the chance they have internal infections.
Surveillance is good, watch to be sure the scales do not protrude. If the fish
develop the pine-cone signs of dropsy, euthanasia would be required.
-Gwen>>
Long-finned White Clouds
Dear Robert,
<Hello Ed. Sorry for the late response. Have been out diving with friends in the Galapagos... now in Quito>
Always admired your articles! Just stumbled onto your site on the web.
<Ah, glad we have finally met>
My name is Ed Stansbury. I was a contributing editor for FAMA back in the 80s and 90s, but quit writing for them when they refused to pay for an
article of mine they published.
<Too typical... you may have heard that Norm Ridker (Nee Fancy, Bowtie Publications... owners of AFM) has bought FAMA recently...>
I've had about 75 articles published through the years in different mag.s. I have bred regular white clouds since the 1950s. Recently, I have tried
long-finned white clouds repeatedly, but always get normal-finned young.....hundreds and hundreds of them. Tried as much as 6-months grow out,
just to be sure it wasn't a developmental thing. I'd still like to breed them. Any ideas on what's going on? Any trick to them?
<Could be, and I suspect this is, a simple recessive homozygous trait... have you had occasion to breed the F1's with each other? Should be about a
quarter that are long-finned...>
Sincerely,
Ed Stansbury
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Aggressive Female White Cloud
Hey guys,
Me again... you were so wonderful answering me last time, and I hate writing to you again, but I can't find anything on the site about
aggressive female White Clouds! Any comments you may have on my entire setup would be helpful to me, too.
So I was the one with the unheated, filtered, rectangular 10-gallon tank with two big branchy plants, six little tiny red-tipped plants
(all the plants are fake), and two large reef-like rocks. It has three White Cloud Mountain Minnows: a little male, and two big females. They
seem to be thriving except one thing: Daphnie, the largest female, is a real jerk. At first she swam with the male, and chased the other female
away whenever she saw her. Now however, both females (led by violent Daphnie) have ganged up on my little male. She nips him all over his
body whenever she sees him, and actively chases him whenever he isn't hiding, which is often because he wants to school with them.
A week ago she actually managed to rip one of his two little fins (the front clear ones that he uses to swim)! The fin is sticking out from
his body, and the body itself has a little swollen pink place where the fin joins it. The fin itself is ripped in half, and the smaller half is
blood red sometimes, like its bleeding -- serious damage. I guess it's possible that this was caused by something other than Daphnie, but it
just looks like a wound to me instead of a parasite or something, and I can't imagine what else would have done it. He can still swim with this
fin, and acts normal, but it looks painful and doesn't seem to be healing because she picks at this place in particular when she bites at
him.
So here's my deal: the ultimate goal for this setup was to put in a heater (70 degrees or so since clouds like it cool?),
<Better to have a/the heater to keep temperature steady>
and then put my male Betta into it. I got him from a pet store with fin rot and he's
been healing in a quarantine tank (although the rot seems to be gone, his edge of his tail is bumpy looking, as if it healed to a irregular
length -- does this sound like its healed, or just in remission?
<Could be fine>
There is no black stuff any more, although the edge is darker than his body color of blue, and the tail has normal looking little white peaks that
look like bones). I tried him in with the minnows for a day or two just to see, and they all seemed to get along with him (he chased them for a
while then stopped caring about them), but this was before Daphnie started getting aggressive.
Do you think putting more white clouds in there would help alleviate her aggression towards this male?
<Likely so>
If so, what gender do you think they should be?
<A mix... at least one more male>
I don't know how many more will fit into a tank like this, especially once a male
Betta is introduced. Alternately, do you think I
should just take Daphnie back to the store?
<Maybe>
I hate to do that, as I like her a lot, but she seems to be the main problem here. Until then,
should I isolate the wounded male?
<If it is continuing to be harassed, yes>
I'd put him in the quarantine tank with the Betta, but I'm afraid that without plants to hide behind, the
Betta might hurt him. Maybe I could put the Betta in the normal tank and the minnow in quarantine...
Any advice would be appreciated!
Amy and her somewhat dysfunctional fish
<A simple salt addition will likely serve to help heal the one Whitecloud. Bob Fenner> White Cloud with Pointy Belly?
Hi guys/gals,
<Amy>
Thanks for your help -- do you reply directly to e-mails as well as posting replies on your wonderful site?
<Yes, both>
I've been keeping 3 white cloud mountain minnows (a boy and two girls) in an unheated, well-planted 10-gallon with filtration for about a
month now. They are the only 3 fish in there and they are showing great health as far as I can tell (I've never had white clouds before), very
active and interactive with vibrant dark colors, open fins, eat everything I give them. Both females look very ripe, with bloated,
round, white bellies.
<This is a great old-timey aquarium fish>
Yesterday I decided to give them some freeze-dried blood worms, since they've only had flake food previously. They gobbled the worms all up.
This morning, I noticed that my dominant female (it's odd, she actually beats up on the male and the other female, although I've heard they are
generally peaceful) has a pointy belly. She's had a fairly bent spine ever since I got her, and so consequently she's been shaped a little
funny since she started appearing ripe, but this is ridiculous -- it looks almost like something inside her is forcing a spot near the
center of her belly out towards a point. It definitely doesn't look healthy, and I'm worried the blood worms may have caused her to overeat
and explode or something.
<Sounds like it>
She's still acting normally and ate breakfast (by the time I noticed I'd already put flakes in). Do you think I should worry?
Thanks for your help!
Amy and Daphnie the minnow
<I might try the time-tested addition of a teaspoon of Epsom Salt added to the water here... to "move" this object. Bob Fenner>
Re: White Cloud with Pointy Belly?
Hey -- thank you both for your help! No need to reply to this e-mail, but I thought you might like to know that the female White Cloud actually
passed the pointy object no problem before I even added Epsom Salt, and now she's back to her normal, moderately aggressive little self. What
hardy little fish!! I'd recommend them to anyone!
Thanks again,
Amy and Daphnie the minnow
<Ah, thank you for the positive news update. Tanichthys albonubes are one of my fave freshwater aquarium fishes. Bob Fenner>
