LionDisF9

FAQs about Lionfish Health/Disease/Injuries 9

Related Articles: Lionfish & Their Relatives, Keeping Lionfishes and their Scorpaeniform Kin Part 1, Part 2, by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner, Dwarf Lionfishes,

Scorpionfishes: Lionfishes & Much More for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Lionfish with hole in lower jaw... nutr. deficiency 1/29/09 I am in need of some help with my Dwarf Lionfish. I have a 210 gallon system. I have had the Lionfish for approximately 8 months. When I first got him the only thing I could get him to eat were ghost shrimp. I eventually got him to eat thawed krill. <These are insufficient nutritionally> He has been growing & doing great until....about a month ago he completely quit eating. <Bingo> I have always fed him his food from a small net. As soon as I would put the net in the tank he was right there ready to pounce. Now....nothing. He swims away from the net as if it is annoying him. I kept trying everyday, unsuccessfully, to feed him & then noticed last week that he has a hole in his lower jaw! I can see right through it & it is about the circumference of a pencil. The skin around the hole looked normal until today. It now has small dark red spots around the edge of the hole. Kind of looks like when we scratch our skin & it gets little spots of blood. I went and got some ghost shrimp today. At first he seemed annoyed. A couple ghost shrimp got away then he appeared to go after one. I couldn't tell if he got it or not since I was standing on a step stool, looking at his reflection in the glass. My tank is a custom build into the wall between my kitchen & living room so you can see through it. It is only accessible from the kitchen side & he likes to hang out on the other side. I have searched & can't find any info on what might be wrong with him. Is it possible he tore the skin on the live rock? <Mmm, yes... but the lack of color, flesh on the head is telling...> Or does it sound like disease? <Yes... a nutritional deficiency> I am pretty ignorant when it comes to knowing my about my system. We started it up 8/2007. All maintenance is done by LFS. I am slowly learning as we go. A couple weeks ago my nitrates went crazy (80+) <This also...> we discovered that all of the algae in the refuge was turned to mush! But before that everything was fine. We have cured that problem with water changes & the new algae is thriving. But I am still very concerned about my lionfish. Any help is greatly appreciated! Leigh W. <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lionfdgfaqs.htm and the linked files above. This fish is missing vital (necessary) nutrients... is suffering from a long lack of same. Bob Fenner>

Re: Lionfish problems, Apogon incomp. 1/19/09 Just thought you folks would like to know what I discovered. Bob suggested a tank divider which I did purchase and install. The fish were not at all happy but I had to determine what was causing the Lionfish's (body) areas of discoloration. It took about seven weeks before I noticed the body areas healing so Bob's theory of tank mates chewing on him looked correct. I removed the divider and they were all happier. That night though, I glanced at my tank and saw the Lion begin to do his nightly ritual of swimming back and forth, the length of the aquarium. The little Cardinal always stays at the back wall in the center of the tank but in the Lion's path. This little fish refuses to get out of the way of the Lion and sometimes (looks) like he's attempting to nip him. The culprit? Perhaps. He also follows the Lion on his swimming path. I never knew Cardinals were this aggressive. <Mmm, one can never tell as the saying goes... Being so nocturnal, seemingly passive, I also wonder> I keep monitoring and then decide if the Cardinal should find a new home. Thanks very much for the advice Bob. I would have bet anything you were going to tell me it was lateral line erosion or some other disease. I never would have guessed it was one of his tank mates. I guess I'll have to rig up a divider and see if it clears up. I'll let you know. Regards, Rob <Thank you for this valuable follow-up Rob. Bob Fenner>

Re: puffer/lionfish with ick : ( ~ 01/12/09 Thanks Bob. I read and found a link to a website from yours that has all these medications. I decided to try some quinnie sulphate. will 25 grams be enough? I can always order more on express shipping if I have to. thanks, Mike <I'd read again, keep reading, till you can at least spell the name of the compound. BobF> ouch. OK ill keep reading. <Good. B>
Re: puffer/lionfish with ick : ( 1/19/09 I have been treating with quinine sulfate and the lionfish is getting better, the puffer however is a different story. He still has some white spots <Mmm, these might not be parasites> and is neglecting all food, frozen, live, freeze-dried ecto. <No such word> I have tried giving him live clams, oysters, mussels, even a feeder fish <A poor idea> to see if he would eat it. <The off-feeding could be due to the circumstances... system being small...> I tried frozen silversides, beef heart <Not advised> and bloodworms, and freeze-dried krill. He now has a weird line type thing on one of his eyes (going across, not coming out of the eye). I don't know what to do any more. His stomach is getting more convex by the day. please help me save my puffer, Mike <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/pufferdisfaqs.htm and the linked files above. BobF>

Dead Volitans Lion 12/27/08 Good Morning Crew... First with basic parameters and set up: Tank: 55gal SWFO, T5 HO light 36" 2 bulb 39w 18k, Crushed Coral, Eheim 2026,RO/DI...Water at tap( well) 448ppm after RO/DI 000 Livestock: 1 Volitans Lionfish, 2 Florida Condi Anemone- <Mmmm> (55 is temp tank until larger DIY tank is finished) Water before death:0 ammonia- 0 nitrite- >10 nitrate- PH 8.3- SG 1.021- O28 Water after death: 0 ammonia- 0 nitrite > 05 nitrate- PH 8 SG 1.021-O2 8 I use Salifert test kits.... I need your opinion...My lionfish died this morning and I was wondering if you can offer an opinion as to why...I do not want this to happen again, if the cause is in fact due to my ignorance...I purchased him approx. 3 months ago, acclimated for approx. 3 hours (drip method) into my quarantine tank...he stayed there for about three weeks while I tried to get him to eat... I live on the coast, so I managed to get hold of live saltwater minnows...After a few days of feeding these and silversides, I had him eating all frozen...I then placed him into my main tank with the 2 Anemones...Things have been fine with him eating silvers, frozen krill, small whole shrimp, and occasional chunk of scallop, 2-3 times a week... XMAS day, after much prodding from the visiting kids to see him "eat", I let them feed him 3 live wild caught minnows...The next morning, I noticed him laying on the bottom with his left eye cloudy...I placed him in the quarantine tank and began to start researching the net...Over the period of yesterday and today, both eyes clouded, one of his horns broke, his face became bright red, skin began falling off of eyes-face-gill area....Late this morning I noticed him darting around the tank, and he died.... I have seen several possible causes by reading ALOT of your FAQs area, but I simply can't nail it down to a cause other than poison...Maybe it is simply coincidence that this happened after eating those minnows, and he was already sick, but I have NOTHING in my tank but him and those 2 Anemones, <These are likely the root cause here> I test the water weekly, and he has been on the same diet.... I have attached 2 pictures, one from each side of his head....I would sincerely appreciate your opinion.... Thank you. Richard Gulf Coast, MS <Thank you for writing so clearly, thoroughly... the cloudy eyes, the reddening of the face. It is likely your Lionfish had a bad run-in with the Condylactis. Bob Fenner>

Re: Dead Volitans Lion 12/27/08 Mr. Fenner...Thank you for the quick response...So, basically it was my ignorance that killed this fish...He should never have been placed in the tank w/the Condi's...? <Yes... does happen. These Lions aren't very "careful" in their movements, and in the small confines or our tanks, do get "caught" cruising around in the dark...> I thought I had covered all my bases when deciding to purchase this fish...It goes to show just how much there is to learn... <Much more than a lifetime> I understand you are going to lose fish due to natural causes, but I simply don't condone losing them to ignorance, or lack of care.. <Ahh! We are definitely in agreement here. Hence my efforts with friends here to share our experiences, thoughts, speculations and accumulated facts from others> I am disabled, and therefore have a lot of free time...I have very much enjoyed reading your site since finding it the other day...I have been unable to "put it down" so to speak... <Am glad to find the work of interest, use> As for writing clearly and thoroughly, you are welcome...I consider that a simple matter of respect, especially since you are providing an invaluable FREE service... Regards, Richard Scearce <Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Lionfish help 11/10/08 We have a 46 gallon salt water tank we've had set up and running for about 6 months. We have 2 clownfish, a blue tang, a fox faced rabbit fish, and a volitans lionfish. <Woefully overstocked, too small for the inhabitants.> We also have live rock (about 25 pounds) and sand, as well as the standard filter and heater. We do tests about once a month on our tank and always have the correct parameters. <Once a month is a small picture, I would make a habit of weekly at the very least.> We had a clownfish die, so we got the two we have now. However shortly after getting them we discovered ick in our tank (we're fairly certain it was from the new clownfish). <Quarantine?> After going through the advised treatment regime, we have had problem after problem with our tank. (We've been ick free for at least a month now.) We can't keep any snails alive in our tank when before we'd had two since we had the tank running, and our large yellow tang died. <Did you treat the display? With what? Could account for the snails.> But the latest problem is what I have questions about. Our lionfish hasn't eaten for a little over two weeks. All he eats are frozen brine shrimp, that's what the store gave him before we got him, and that's all he's eaten since we've had him these 6 months. We even tried soaking them in garlic, wiggling on sticks, nothing. Our next step is to try ghost shrimp but we've had a tough time finding any but frozen. I've read they'll go on hunger strikes from other posts on your website but this has an accompanying problem. He hasn't come out from hiding for 3 days, even in the dark because we knew they sometimes prefer night and tried to watch then as well. When we ushered him out with the net we noticed almost every one of his spines is about half its old length. Is it possible they molt them? <Nope, tis the environment. He needs larger quarters.> I was unable to find anything about breaking spikes other than in wounds they incur. And since we pushed him out of his hiding spot he just went to a different one and hasn't come out. <Further stress.> We tested our water again and everything is correct, <A subjective statement.> all our other fish are fine, we still manage to keep it clean without the snails, and nothing environmentally has recently changed to aggravate him. Any ideas about our lionfish's odd behavior and the breaking spines? Thank you for any advice, I love your site I always go there when we have questions. Jessica <Welcome, Scott V. You really need to do some research on your end re the systems and requirement of these fish.>

Lionfish acting blind and not eating for a week 11/7/08 Hoping for some answers...I have a 55g tank, mostly live rock (prob 40 lbs)and inverts, one lionfish (the only fish). Started tank in June 08. Water parameters: ammonia, nitrites = 0, nitrates b/t 5-10 , pH=8.0, salinity =1.023. <I would raise this to a more natural level, 1.025.> I did a 50% water change 2 days ago. <Too much at once for an already stressed fish.> I use 4-50/50 reefsun lamps. About a week ago the lion stopped eating (feed him 1/2 froz raw shrimp 2-3 times/week). The same day he started swimming vigorously from one end of the tank to the other, near the top of tank. This was a big deviation from his normal behavior, which is usually rather languid and relaxed...he liked to hover near the bottom of tank, often resting on the sand or on a rock. Over the next few (2-3) days he stayed agitated and started bumping into the tank walls, powerheads, rocks and stayed near top of tank, often in a close to vertical position, mouth gaping slightly. He does not seem to be able to see at all. His eyes are not cloudy, has no discoloration anywhere on his body, no slime or spots. Never seems to rest anymore. Any advice is appreciated. <Blindness is usually caused by strong lighting without overhangs, caves or hideouts for the lion or vitamin deficiency. Even blind, they can be trained to eat. See: http://www.google.com/custom?domains=www.WetWebMedia.com&q=lionfish+blindnes s&sa=Search&sitesearch=www.WetWebMedia.com&client=pub-4522959445250520&forid =1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%233366 99%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3A99C9FF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000F F%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A1%3B& hl=en and do consider enriching the food with vitamins.> Thank you. <Welcome, Scott V.>

Black Volitans Lionfish Problem. 10/14/08 Hello crew, <Hi,> I have an emergency. Hopefully you guys can help out a dying fish and stressed out fish owner. My friend has bought a black Volitans lion about 3 weeks ago. <OK.> Without the fin, I would say he is about 3" long. He has put it into his 24 gal QT to copper treat it and to see everything was ok with him. <The Scorpionfish family is notably intolerant to copper. Supposedly because they have "small scales" but I'm not sold on that explanation any more than I am when applied to catfish, loaches, etc. My gut feeling is copper is toxic to all aquarium fish (life?), just to varying degrees, so can seem "safe" or "dangerous" depending on the species/dose/other environmental factors. Other medications, or even hyposalinity, should be used to treat Lionfish. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liondisfaqs.htm This fish may well be "poisoned" by now, in which case you're pretty much down to luck and time. Either any organ damage is slight enough to heal, or not...> Well, about 2 days ago he stopped eating and is on the ground not moving. I checked out the water parameters and ammonia/copper/nitrate was off the roof. Enraged, I took the fish away from him saying that he doesn't deserve such a fish and put him into my tank. (72 gal bow front) after proper acclamation of course. <Done the best you can...> It's his 2nd day in the tank and he is very weak, won't swim and won't even look at the food. <Does happen when you move these fish, especially if stressed/sick beforehand.> I have tried to get something to him by trying gut packed ghost shrimps, frozen cube foods, dried anchovies, even guppies and a goldfish (i know, i know.. but I just want him to live, if they starve they die right?). <Doesn't work this way with fish. Unlike warm blooded animals, their "food demand" is very low, can be almost zero if needs be (hence Koi surviving months under ice without eating). Certainly no advantage to dumping food in the tank and messing up water quality if the Lionfish isn't hungry. Put it this way: once healthy, he will actively seek food. If he's not hungry, nothing much will help force him to eat. While I *occasionally* force-feed very sick fish, with something as venomous as a Lionfish that wouldn't be easy to do. It's also easy to damage weak fish this way unless you know precisely what you're doing and use the minimum force in delivering a suitable slurry down the throat of the fish. Last but not least, there's no mileage coaxing a sick fish to health by feeding parasite time bombs (a.k.a. feeder fish) that will create another problem down the road. So feed the other fish in the tank as normal, and as/when this Lionfish wants to eat, you should see at least some signs of foraging behaviour. That's when you can use river shrimp or whatever as a safe "treat" to build up its energy reserves, and once fattened up, wean onto frozen foods.> I'm going to go buy some garlic elements tomorrow to stimulate the feeding and some liquid vitamins so that lion and my other fish can get some nutrients by just breathing. Anything that I can do to help this guy live? He's a beautiful fish and I would hate to see him die on me... <Humbly submit "time, the great healer". If this guy has been bashed about by the copper, poor water quality, he may well be doomed. Otherwise optimal water quality is all you can constructively do.> Stressed fish owner Richard. <Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Black Volitans Lionfish Problem (RMF, again, feel free!) 10/14/08 Hello again Neale and the crew at WWM. Thanks for getting back to me so quick. I really appreciate it. <Most welcome.> I'm giving you a little status update, I did 5 gal water change again very early this morning to bring everything down to zero and after several hours later, fish moved. It swam to a rock and is resting there. Breathing is not as labored as before. He looks a lot better actually, I'm beginning to think that there is a fighting chance left on this guy. <Would be my hope, too.> Looks like skin is peeling and looks like stress coat was severely damaged though... I'm going to the LFS right now to buy some more stress coat medicine and vitamin for the water to help this little guy survive. Anything else that can I do for him besides putting him in hands of the master healer, time? <What you're doing is probably the best you can.> Once again, I thank you guys for getting back to me so quick. Richard -little bit less stressed fish owner. BTW, I'll be keeping the lionfish ;) <I've brought fish back "from the brink", so it's certainly do-able. Patience and careful observation for signs of things like secondary infections, are the keys. Once the fish becomes more active, then start offering suitable live foods, in small amounts -- just like humans, convalescence does depend on nutritious but light meals rather than feasts! I'd be cautious about adding random, vaguely defined medications to the water (e.g., Melafix) because they don't really do anything that good diet and water quality can't do alone. Would concentrate on honest to goodness, plain vanilla water quality. Take care of that, and if your fish is going to get better, he will. Cheers, Neale.>

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