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FAQs on Exophthalmia/Pop-Eye 2 & Eye Injuries

Related Articles: Exophthalmia/Pop-eye, Environmental Disease,

Related FAQs: Pop-Eye 1, Eye Troubles 3, Eye Troubles 4, Eye Troubles 5, & FAQs on Popeye: Causes/Etiology: Traumas/Mechanical Injuries, Parasitic Involvements Suspected & Real, Infectious Disease, Cures, Case Histories, & Environmental Disease, Aggressive Behavior, Sources of Bubbles,

Blurry pop-eyed Domino Damsels... environmental etiology.

Sick Polymnus Clownfish 4/17/05 I purchased a mated pair of Saddleback (Polymnus) clownfish about 3 weeks ago. When I first placed them into my 12 gallon QT tank, they seemed very healthy and readily accepted foods including Mysis soaked in vitamins, Cyclop-Eeze and small pellets. However, after two weeks or so, I began to notice some odd behavior in the female (who is about 3x larger than her mate). She seemed very lethargic, mostly swimming near the bottom of the tank without the usual bobbing motion associated with her species. Once in a while, I noticed she would just swim from one end of the tank to the other, sometimes gently bumping into the tank wall before reversing direction. She also stopped eating, but exhibited no signs of parasites or other diseases. The male remains very healthy. <A. polymnus aren't the hardiest of clowns and often fail to acclimate to captivity. The black variant seems to do somewhat better. If these are wild caught specimens, I would suggest that you research and rule out Brooklynella (usually indicated by thick cloudy mucous on skin). If it is Brooklynella, both clowns must be moved to a hospital tank and must be treated with Formalin baths.> A couple days ago, I moved the pair into the 60gal reef tank, hoping that a larger tank would perk her up. After several hours, the pair began hosting in my LTA anemone. At first I thought the female had perked up, but it has been two days now and she is still not eating (it's been about a week total since she stopped eating). This morning I discovered that one eye is beginning to bulge out, looks like early stages of Popeye however the eye is not cloudy. There is a small hippo tang in the tank which is perfectly happy and only occasionally hangs around the clownfish and their anemone although I've seen no biting. <"Pop Eye", especially when only one eye is affected is most often caused by physical injury. However, in her outstanding book on Clownfishes, Joyce Wilkerson describes a very rare fungal disease that often causes pop-eye and the other signs you have described. There is no certain way to diagnose it while the fish is still alive, but she suggests that it can be treated by soaking food in 1% phenoxyethanol I don't have a brand name to recommend, but it will be marketed as an anti-fungal medication (don't substitute!).> What do you suggest I do? Is her strange behavior just a result of the Popeye she is developing or is there a bigger issue likely involved? Should I move the female (or both) back to the QT tank? Should I treat with Epsom salts or Maracyn as you sometimes suggest? Thanks for your help. You guys perform a wonderful service! Saahil. <I would not move the fish again. The other fish have already been exposed to the problem and further stress and physical contact with the injured eye could be quite harmful. If the fish is not eating, there is no way to get phenoxyethanol into the fish (adding to the water is ineffective), so you will have to offer tempting foods and wait it out. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Cloudy Eyes, Copper Use 4/30/07 I have a large centralized system (750 gallons) and I'm having trouble with cloudy eyes in many of the fish. It is fish only and I do use copper power. 1.26% copper sulfate. Thank you, Mike <This is most likely due to long term copper exposure. Copper is quite toxic over long periods or in too high of a concentration. It should only be used to treat diseases, not as a long term preventative treatment.> <Chris>

Zebra moray with cloudy eye - infection or cataract? - 04/30/07 Hi, I've really enjoyed reading through your site in the evenings with a beer, now I have a question that I can not find any answer to. My Zebra moray's eye had clouded up, for several months I've noticed a small clouded spot in the middle of the eye, now the whole eye is covered <A cataract only affects the lens. See if the margin of the eyes is covered, too. Do you see any worms or cysts in the eye? Another possibility is an ablatio retinae due to an accident. In that case there is not much you could do to help your moray eel (It can live happily with one eye). If, as I suppose from your picture, the entire eye is clouded and no cysts or worms occur, a bacterial infection seems more probable, although they in general do not develop over several months, but faster.>, the other is fine. I've been thinking he scratched it on a rock <A possible source of an bacterial infection>. He is about 24" long, eats well. I feed him a frozen medium shrimp (or a bay scallop) every 2-3 days, sometimes soak them in Kent Zoe Marine. <Sounds like a good diet. You may want to try a little more variation with crab legs, different brands/sizes/species of shrimps. Change the "sometimes" into a "frequently" as long as the cloudy eye occurs.> I have him in a 70 gallon tanks with 1 yellow tang, 1 blue tang, 1 blue/green chromis, 1 orchid Dottyback, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, a pulsating xenia, Bubbletip anemone, anemone crab, small (3") crocea clam, small colony of button polyps. For filtering I use a MegaFlow sump #3, Berlin turbo flow skimmer, 10 gallon refugium (lights on 24/7). I do 5 to 10 gallon water changes weekly. I make up 40 gallons at a time so I have "fresh" salt water all the time, the water is ro/di, and I use Instant Ocean sea salt. I also have a Carlson surge device that flushes about 10 gallons of water into the tank in about 15 seconds every 5 minutes during the day and then run 2 power heads at night. Lighting is done by Coralife Aqualight Pro HQI/Compact Fluorescent/Lunar Light Fixture 2-150 watt bulbs (1-10000K and 1-14000K) and 2 actinic blue compact fluorescents. 70 lbs of live rock. It's been running for about a year and a half. The water parameters are: 0 - ammonia; 0-5 ppm of nitrates; 0 phosphates; KH 179ppm; Ca 300 mg/l; PH 8.2; SG 1.028. This is temporary for him, in the fall I plan on putting in a 220 gallon and leave this as a reef tank. Thanks. <I would not treat so far, but keep up the high water quality and a varied diet with frequent vitamin addition. If you see any worms in the eye, you need to get a wormer. When provided a proper environment, moray eels are hardy and can fight many infections with their blood and skin toxins as well as with their strong immune system. I'd wait with considering the use of antibiotics in a separate tank until further symptoms like cloudiness of the other eye, skin discoloration develop. Such treatments are stressful and could harm a moray eel more than a small infection. I hope it will not spread. When you plan your bigger tank, be sure to incorporate pvc pipes in case you haven't already. Much less danger of scratching. Marco.>

Poor Picasso Trigger with Popeye - 4/7/07 I have had a Picasso trigger for almost the last year and he has been a great little guy. His only tankmate is a clown trigger (who is rapidly growing) <Yikes... not compatible> that was purchased around the same time. Several months ago I moved them from a 46 gallon into the current 75 gallon. I have about 45 lbs of live rock and use a Fluval 404 filter with a Coralife 125 gallon super skimmer. I do weekly water changes of about 10 gallons and continually have nitrates around 15ppm. Around the time that I moved them the Picasso began to have bulgy eyes. Not just one but both so I looked up what I could find figured that it might just be poor water quality. I was doing very large weekly water changes of about 20 gallons which seemed to help. The Popeye was sporadic, some days it was there and would stay for a several and then he would be just fine for week only to have it appear again. He eats and swims just fine now. The Clown trigger has never shown any signs of Popeye, so I also don't think that it could be a water quality issue anymore. Occasionally the Picasso's colors lighten up substantially but he is usually quite dark in color and very colorful. I feed them a large assortment of foods including Clams, shrimp, squid, krill, mysis, brine, mussels, and trigger formula. I believe their diet to be fine and am glad that the Picasso eats normally. Last week I moved the Picasso into a ten gallon quarantine tank and decided to treat him with Maracyn as I believed this to be the best course of action to take. It began to look as though it was working the next day and appeared so until the last day of treatment. I woke up and his eyes were just as bulgy as before. I did further reading and decided that maybe I should be treating with Maracyn-2 as I had read that rarely do fish have gram positive bacterial infections which is what the Maracyn is supposed to treat. I have begun treating with Maracyn-2 and have noticed no results. I am almost at a loss for what to do now as this is my favorite fish and is a joy to watch everyday. Thank you for all your help. Sincerely, John C. <Mmm... well, the etiologies of such bulging can be complex... there might be an internal parasite at play here... As you relate that the Clown is not affected, I too discount the possibility of fine air-bubbles, some other physical or chemical cause here... I do encourage you to try switching (almost exclusively) to Spectrum fish food... for three reasons... One, it is nutritionally complete... two, the problem may be related to some part of the food you're currently offering, and lastly, as am hopeful this may reduce some part, extend the time till the Clown becomes overtly aggressive/territorial toward the Picasso. Bob Fenner> Pop Eye eats me's spinach! (a success story) 3/11/07 <Greetings, Jeff. GrahamT here.> My tank is a 75 gallon reef. Last Monday I noticed my Long Nose Hawk had a severe case of pop eye. <Bummer.> After researching your site I decided to try the Epsom Salt. <Good call.> Did a 20% water change and added 1 tbs of Epsom Salt per 5 gallons. <Actually, prefer 1 tablespoon to 10 gallons ( http://www.wetwebmedia.com/epsomfaqs.htm )To the main system? Not generally advised. Won't mal-affect any other inhabitants, but is a good practice to isolate any ailing animals into their own system.> Did another water change on Thursday with a 1 tbs per gallon retreat of Epsom Salt. <Wah?!? 1:1??? > Almost one week later Sunday the Long Nose Hawks eye is back to normal. <Ahh, good. Must be understood that Epsom is more of a relief/aide than a treatment in itself... also outlined on WWM, so you probably already knew.> Just want to say thanks guys for providing us reefers with an extremely valuable site for our reefing problems. Jeff <You are very welcome, Jeff! I am glad to hear from a fellow hobbyist that made such productive use of our archive. Furthermore, you are a hero to your little buddy! YAY! -GrahamT>

Re: Metal Halide size and T5 question, Flagfin angel dis./recovery 3/1/07 Thanks Bob for the prompt reply, <Welcome Larry> I think I'm going to go with the 150 HQI due to heat issues. I just needed to make sure that I could keep SPS and clams. <Ahh, this would be my choice as well> I'd like to share a success story with you about a sick fish since you here so many failures by hobbyists. <Please do> I have had a beautiful Flag Fin angel for 3 years. It became ill when one of my older fish died and I didn't find out till 2 days later. The angel developed bilateral cloud eye, fin rot, hemorrhagic patches on both sides of its abdomen and mouth. I immediately place it in my QT tank. It progressed very rapidly and the fish just labored at the top of the tank. It was literally knocking at deaths door and I thought about euthanizing it. I started treatment right away with 2 antibiotics, penicillin and furan along with every other day FW and methylene blue dips and every other day water changes to my QT tank. Well now I call the angel the miracle fish. Its almost back to normal except for some residual damage to one eye. This fish did not eat for 12 days and now its swimming around the tank and just starting to peck at food. Its not completely out of the woods yet, but if it starts to eat again I just may get lucky. <Yes... your diligence has paid well> By the way, I'm a emergency medicine physician and my wife and friends are calling me the fish doctor. Have a great day and thanks for the help. Larry <A good title. BobF>

QT Flame cloudy eye advice 2/23/07 Hello crew and thanks for all the great advice. I have had a flame angel that I have treated for ich in a 10 gallon QT tank for 40 days and counting. The main tank has been fallow for the same period. Just as I thought the end was in site <sight> a few days ago I noticed the flame had one eye slightly cloudy and bulging. <Mmm, don't despair here... likely a "bump"... associated with the quarantine... I would proceed with the return of this fish to the DT> The flame has vibrant colors and good eating habits and does not seem to be impacted by the cloudy eye. The FAQs indicate that I should put him into the main tank with plenty of live rock to provide an environment to improve over all health and lots of great food. <Yes> My dilemma is that I wanted to keep the main tank fallow for 1-2 more weeks, but now the fish's health may be in jeopardy. Please advise as I am inclined to put him into the main tank after 6 weeks fallow to improve the health of his eye versus leaving him in QT another 1-2 weeks and reducing the probability that the parasite could be in a dormant state waiting for me to give into the temptation of stocking the tank. <I would go ahead and place this fish... the extra weeks will not have granted you much more margin> Also I could not find any details of how the cloudy eye disease will progress (e.g. continued cloudiness which leads to permanent eye damage)?? Thanks again I really appreciate your help. <With good care... high water quality, good nutrition (supplemental vitamins/HUFAs)... this eye problem will likely cure itself... may take weeks to months. Bob Fenner>

Eye Injury 2/14/07 Hey Bob and crew, <Hi Darby...AJ with you.> I'm hoping you can make a diagnosis based on words... <Well I'm not Dr. House, hehe, but I will try.> I was out of town over the weekend, and my father took care of my fish. <Uh-oh.> When I returned, I noticed that my Potters Angel's left eye had a bulging lens, which was also slightly milky. When I saw him, he was trying to cozy up to my peppermint shrimp, expecting to be cleaned (?). He then dove under the rock, and has remained there (unusual, as he is very gregarious). When I questioned my father, he said that he thought that Saturday the fish had only the back half of its eye bubbled, but he didn't see it all day Sunday. A subsequent glimpse did kind of show a light line vertically just about across the center of the eye. I changed 20% of the water Thursday before leaving, and if an injury, it could have occurred then. May father also reports that the fish "dove" into the rocks the nights that he turned off their light (probably due to not following all of my instructions), and that too may have resulted in the injury. I've had no diseases in my tank at all, and the water quality is very high (though some hair alga does grow rather long). I've looked over the FAQs and will be getting some Epsom salt this evening, just in case it's needed. <Assuming that the tank parameters are in order (other inhabitants are not ailing) it sounds like blunt force trauma...if the fish is still acting normal, eating etc.. I would just continue with normal care. If you deem it necessary you can remove the animal to a QT tank until it heals.> Thanks for your help! <Of course.> Darby <Adam J.>

Emperor snapper with 1 big pop eye: need larger tank ASAP, not to mention QT tank. 1/5/07 Hello, I have read several of the notes...on pop eye and Epsom salt. <Hi Shanon, Jorie here. I'm thinking you are referring to FAQs on the subject? These can be very helpful.> I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank. I have 4 or 5 different types of soft coral, the snapper, a coli tang... <Not familiar with this "common" name, perhaps you mean Kole tang, Ctenochaetus strigosus?> , and 2 damsels (different species). <The emperor snapper you refer to, or Lutjanus Sebae, can reach 30" as an adult, and requires at least a 200 gal. tank. The tang will reach about 7" in length and should be kept in at least a 90 gal. tank. Your tank is woefully too small for these two beautiful fish, and they will very soon outgrow it, if they haven't already.> My snapper recently tried to escape and got out hit the floor (about 4 1/2 feet from top of tank). <Can often be signs of poor water conditions. Have you checked your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, along with pH, temp., salinity, etc.? How long has this tank been established, and has the nitrogen cycle established itself? My likely bet on the cause of your problems is environmental, and this is likely compounded by keeping too many large fish in too small, stressful an environment...> About 3 or 4 days after the fall he started with a small bubble over one eye, and the next morning it was the whole eye and tonight (same day) it is really bulging. I understand this is from the trauma of the fall. <Maybe, or maybe not. The fall could have stressed him out to the point that he became more susceptible to disease. Many times Popeye is caused by bad water conditions, so first thing to do is check the parameters...> Is there anything I can do to help him out? <First check water conditions and remedy as needed. Second, upgrade his tank ASAP.> I do not have a way to QT him.. <A QT/hospital tank is truly a necessity in the fishkeeping hobby...> ...he seems to be swimming fine, but not eating as much as he usually does. Please help, I do not want to loose the leader of my tank. I was wondering if the Epsom salt treatment that has been mentioned is a possibility in the 55 gallon tank. I have also been told that he might loose the eye altogether. PLEASE help what do I need to do? <This fish is woefully stressed, and will likely not get better without better care. You need to upgrade his tank very soon, keep the water clean, and read and research all fish before acquiring them. You cannot use the Epsom salt, or any treatment, in the main tank; you MUST get a QT tank for this fish ASAP. As per the FAQs you've already read, the Epsom salt is truly the best way to treat the Popeye, in conjunction with keeping toxins out of the water. You need to start researching and planning for an upgrade, or you will likely loose both of these beautiful fish. I can't comment on whether the damsels are appropriate for the tank or not, but generally, damsels don't grow too large. They are quite aggressive, however, and you must be careful what else you house with them... Regards, Jorie> Thanks in advance Shanon PS I'm new to this hobby, what books have you written? I'm a 4th grade teacher and really starting to get into this and want to learn as much as s I can. <<Doh! Not HomerS, but BobF, who see's the Grahamster missed this.>>

Re: Emperor snapper with 1 big pop eye: need larger tank ASAP, not to mention QT tank. 1/5/07 Thanks for the input. <You're welcome.> We did research the fish before we bought them, and they came highly recommended from our local saltwater store. They told us this was a good combination and the tank was a good size to start with and gradually get bigger. <You've got to remember that advice from even the best fish stores can be a bit biased...they are, after all, trying to sell fish! I won't say they are all/always wrong, but it is best to do independent research. Also, I'm not a fan of the "buying a suitable tank for now, then will buy bigger later" mentality, as even the best intentions can be thwarted by various circumstances.> The snapper jumped out because we were trying to get him to spit out the smallest damsel he tried to eat (our fault) I know this was not the best choice, but the fish was brand new (picked out by my children. <Best not to let children decide such important issues, in my opinion. You are, after all, the adult... Also, you really should, for the health of all the fish in your main tank, be quarantining any and all new fish/livestock purchases for at least a month...many nasty diseases can be present on a new fish, and you can very easily wipe out an entire tank w/o using proper QT methods...> The last time I check my ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and pH it all checked out. <Hopefully you are monitoring these regularly...> We add calcium and ph balancer daily and iodine every other day. <OK, hopefully you are monitoring these levels regularly, also...> The only thing that seems to be wrong with our water is the cloudy look and the tiny isopods, copepods... that I can barely see on the glass. <You asked for my advice, I gave it. Popeye is 9/10 times due to poor environmental conditions. If it were me, I'd double the frequency of the water changes until the eye improves.> So I should not put the Epson salt in the main tank? <I wouldn't. I don't even put any treatments, medications into my main tank.> I do have a small 20 gallon tank I could make into a QT tank, what do I need to do to get this done properly? <Heater, filter, decor for the fish to hide in/around, test kits, frequent water changes. It's basically a mini-version of the main tank w/o the protein skimmer (hopefully you are running one of those...)> Thanks for all you help so far. I am looking forward to hear what else you have to say. <Shanon, I don't really know what else I can tell you that I haven't already said. If it were my fish, I'd QT it, use the Epsom salt to treat the Popeye, in conjunction with keeping the water uber-clean. Also, you may want to consider soaking the fish food in vitamin supplement (something like Selcon) to help boost its immune system during this time. Shanon Parker 4th Grade Teacher Tread way Elementary School <Best of luck, Jorie>

Eye Problem... in a Holocentrid 12/27/06 Hello, I have a red striped squirrel fish that is about 5 inches in length. Over the last three days air bubbles have shown up inside the left eye and appear to be growing larger. The fish is eating fine and acting normal. What causes this and is this a concern. Jeff Fiorita <Such one-sided "bulging eye" conditions are generally due to a physical trauma... a "bump in the night" with consequent damage to the vascular network (the eyes of fishes, as the those of humans, are supplied with a good deal of blood flow/drainage)... As opposed to most "bilateral exopthalmic conditions" which are environmental (e.g. emphysematosis) or pathogenic in nature. Cure involves maintaining optimized and stable conditions... and patience... Will typically resolve itself in weeks to months. Bob Fenner> Question about Epsom Salt Treatment for Pop-eye - 10/15/06 Dear WWM Crew, I have a sebae clown with one bulging eye (other eye is fine). He's the only fish in a 40 gallon reef tank, 196W CF, deep sand bed, bioballs, AquaC remora, UV sterilizer, and carbon. Tank has been running 3 years and all tank stats are reading fine. The bulging eye is not cloudy or otherwise abnormal, except for the fact that it is bulging :) Based on reading the pop-eye and Epsom FAQs and the chat forums on WWM, I diagnosed the pop-eye as the result of trauma and treated the tank with 8 tablespoons total of Epsom salt on day 0, and then another 4 tablespoons on day 3. It is now day 8 and the bulging eye is still there. The fish is eating great, very active, nuzzling in his anemone, etc. Just wondering how long a response to the Epsom treatment typically takes in your experience? <Weeks... Epsom salts is not a silver arrow remedy, but rather something that will "help" ease the swelling. The underlying trauma that caused the initial swelling needs to heal in its own time.> I read in the FAQs that the Epsom treatment can be repeated, but I couldn't find any advice on how often to repeat (or what the half-life of the Epsom salt already in the tank is). <Would supplement the salts when you change water. Do keep an eye on specific gravity for the tank as you are still adding a salt.> Any advice you have to give would be appreciated. Thanks so much! And best regards, Preston Portland, Oregon <Cheers, J -- >

Bubble-Like Growth on Soldierfish - 09/08/06 Hi Crew, <<Hello!>> I have a Question a year ago I brought a small Big-eye Soldierfish (Myripristis vittata) after Quarantine I add it to my tank, he/she was doing fine until 5 months ago that he/she start getting a bubble next to the eye, I went to my local fish store and they tell me it was nothing to worry about it so I left like that and 5 days later it disappear. <<Mmm...likely an environmental/secondary issue>> Now the fish has the same "disease" the bubble is again next to the eye and now I am wondering if I need to take care of that, maybe put it on a hospital tank or if It will disappear again, he is been like that 4 days already and the bubble is growing and growing. Water parameters are normal, he is eating normal and I always add Vita-Chem to the food for vitamins. Can you help me I don't want to see him like that anymore I'm adding some pictures of my fish. Thank You <<Separate the fish if you have the facilities to do so. This is likely a bacterial infection caused by some aspect of your water quality (do validate your test kits/possibly increase frequency of water changes). Add some Epsom salts to the hospital tank (1 teaspoon per 10 gallons actual water volume) to start, and have a search through our marine disease FAQs for further info and treatments (if needed). Regards, EricR>>

Bubble in Tang's Eye...GBD? - 08/27/06 Hi, <<Hello Deb>> I have a tang who had tiny air bubbles in her eye, then the next day the tiny bubbles became two larger one then the next day they merged into one big bubble. <<Can't say I've ever seen this before...still, is possibly the result of an injury or environmental condition>> Is this the same as POPEYE, or is this something different? <<Something different, as stated. Popeye infections generally affect BOTH eyes>> Also I see that Epsom salt is recommended for Popeye, <<Mmm, not really...a true Popeye infection would require an antibiotic treatment, but the Epsom Salt may prove beneficial in this case>> if this is what she has can the Epsom salt be added to my tank with the other fish or should she be put into a smaller tank. <<Separation/quarantine would likely make it easier to observe/treat this fish, but the Epsom Salt can be added to the display tank if you so wish (a level teaspoon per ten gallons actual water volume is recommended)>> Also how long can you use the Epsom salt? <<As long as perceived necessary...will not need to be re-dosed until you perform a water change>> She is eating but her balance seems off and she looks like sometimes she bumps into things. <<Indeed...peripheral sight/field-of-view is affected, though the loss of "balance" may indicate another problem...emphysematosis, Gas Bubble Disease>> Can tiny micro-bubbles in tank cause this or is this just something that fish just get? <<Ahh, yes...is this an issue in your system? If so, definitely remove the tang for treatment...and see here about rectifying the bubble situation in your display: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bubtroubfaqs.htm >> I thank you in advance for your help. <<I'm happy to assist>> I Love this fish and will try anything I can to help her. Deb <<Remove the tang and treat as described...and fix your bubble problem. Regards, EricR>>

Pop-Eye, MgSO4 8/18/06 I have read your conversations about this. I am currently treating my pink square Anthias for Popeye and was wondering if I can use the Epsom salt in conjunction with the treatment or if I need to do one at a time. Hollie <Epsom can be mixed/used simultaneously with all other moda. Bob Fenner>

Sick Heniochus butterfly 7/26/06 Hi! My Heniochus butterfly fish has Popeye. I put him in a quarantine tank. I am going to the LFS this evening to buy some medicine. Would should I buy? <... Likely nothing. If this Exophthalmia is one-sided, maybe I'd add some Epsom Salt... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm and the linked FAQs2 file above> Also, what should I do about the main tank? I purchased LF from a dealer online back in January. He told me to spray it upon arrival. <"Spray it?"> I did not, figuring that my tap water, which is bad, would kill the organisms on the rock. Instead, I scrubbed it in a plastic tub to get the 'muck' off. Shortly after, my hands were extremely ichy. <Common... there are physical components as well as biological that will do this...> And for the next month or so, I noticed that my hands and arms would itch when I put them in the tank. <Little cuts, abrasions...> I have cleaned LR before and I'd never had a problem. An employee at the LFS told me that the problem was probably bristle worms but they were harmless. I waited a few months before adding a blue damsel. He did fine. Plus I noticed that my hands stopped itching when I had to go into the tank. In June, I moved the damsel to another tank and added the butterfly fish. Could there be something wrong with the LR? <Doubtful> I do not want to get rid of it, but I will if necessary. I am afraid to return the fish to the main tank, after it is well. <If one-sided, this Pop-eye is likely due to a physical trauma. Bob Fenner> 13 year old Foxface with Popeye 7/18/06 Hello, I have a Foxface that I have had for 13 years. He was an adult when I got him so he might be 15 plus years old. He has a case of Popeye in both eyes. <Mmm... environmental... perhaps bacterial... even might be nutritional...> Water conditions are good, only 2 other med size fish in my 75g tank and they are fine. <What are these species? Worthwhile clues> I am on my third round of Maracyn. The first two times I started treatment he would recover just enough for a few days to be able to eat, then he would lapse back and stop eating. Could this just be old age and he losing his ability to fight off infections? <Yes, definitely a possible factor> He does not seem to be responding to this last round of Maracyn (I know 3 rounds might not be good, but I did not know what else to do.) I can tell he is losing weight and I am afraid I might have to euthanize him if I think he is going to starve to death. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you, Michael Hollman <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Fish with Popeye not getting better 6/4/06 Hello WetWebMedia Crew, <Tammy> I am in need of help for my clownfish who suddenly had a Popeye one day. I thought it may have been caused by some trauma to his eye. I put him in a 40 gallon quarantine tank and put in approximately 1 teaspoon of Epson <Epsom, magnesium sulfate, not the printer co.> salt per gallon. Two days later his eye was growing increasing bigger. On the third day it appeared as if his eye was getting bigger by the hour. This concerned me so I tried various things, turned off air pump (heard excessive aerated water could cause Popeye), did a 25% water change, tested water (appears normal). This did not improve his eye and it was only getting bigger. I went to the fish store and they recommended antibiotics so I have been administering antibiotics for two days now (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. E.M. Tablets) 800 mg of erythromycin (200mg for every 10 gallons). <Better treated not in your main system...> The eye does not appear to be improving....it is still getting bigger. The fish is eating somewhat normally (whatever it can catch) and swimming o.k. for not being able to see that well. Is there something I am missing or should/shouldn't be doing? I am getting worried that the fish will die. Any advice/help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tammy <It may be that the physical trauma has closed off a good deal of the vascular (venous) blood mechanism draining this eye. Even possible that there is now a bacterial/infectious component. I would add lowering your specific gravity here (a few thousandths) to relieve the pressure, and maintain what you are doing otherwise. Bob Fenner>

Exophthalmia, Red Bulging Eye - 05/15/2006 Hi Crew: <Hi, Eric.> This is one as stated. The fish is eating and breathing normally. I have treated pop-eyes before with ease, but this time the Vlamingi tang have his right eye first swollen, than turned red. <This is more likely to be from damage/injury than an infection, since it's only one eye.> The swelling is somewhat decrease since I increase the salinity back to tank condition 1.024 (there were infected with ich and was treated with hypocaust. In 50 gallon QT). The redness and the slight swelling is still a problem for the fish, and I have been FW dipping it daily. <Unless you absolutely must dip for some reason, I would stop dipping. I would also add Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) to the tank at a rate of one to two tablespoons per ten gallons of aquarium water. This will help to decrease the swelling.> Last week I saw a tiny red nodule bulges out from the reddened eye membrane, and today it is still present. What can I do to lessen its pain or cure the fish??. Right now the eye is still swollen and redness is still present, with one small nodule on its popped eye. can you please suggest me your diagnostic and treatment plan? <Again, this is probably from an injury, and I would recommend to treat only with perfect water quality and Epsom salt for now.> Thank you in advance, Eric. <All the best to you, -Sabrina>

Marine fish: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly... A Clint Eastwood spaghetti aquarium? Nope: Persistent Pop-eye... - 05/13/2006 Hello Everyone, Love the site use it all the time for the good, the bad and the ugly side of keeping marine fish. I have been in the hobby for quite a few years now and can't say I have ever seen this one before. I can't seem to find the right information anywhere on the site so I thought I would email for the first time ever. Well the situation is I have a sick Chalk Bass that I have had for at least 6 months. He was quarantined prior to adding him to my display tank (learned my lesson on quarantine a long time ago) showed no signs of anything for a month prior to being added to the established display. Now 2 months later boom March 15 POPEYE in 1 eye. I thought it was an injury at first as it did fully heal within 1 week. then 4-6 weeks later boom Popeye again. He does not show any other signs of infection bacterial or viral. NO marks, no bumps, no sores nothing. Again he healed up. Well about three days ago I noticed his eye beginning to swell again!!! This is the third time and this time it is both eyes. <Happens... initially this was likely due to a physical trauma... but does just keep getting "more susceptible"...> By far the worst he has looked. I put him in a quarantine tank and treated with Paraguard and Kanaplex in his food. He still acts quite normal swimming, breathing and eating. The problem is he basically acts normal but has huge swollen eyes (clear bubbles with blood in them). I don't think he has gone blind yet because he still sees me and comes out for food. Since he got sick I tested all tank parameters once a day due to the treatments. He is in QT now and for the last 3 days. Everything is great no ammonia, no nitrates PH perfect nothing unusual. I keep up on water changes and feed a variety of foods. Brine & Mysis shrimp, Spirulina flake, Omega flake and saturate frozen food 2-3 times a week with Selcon. So far no other fish has shown any type of infection. In fact the opposite everyone else is thriving!! Now I am worried that he has something bad like TB or a sister bacteria to TB or an internal Tumor. <Mmm... possibly, but doubtful... where would the Mycobacteria get in?> I realize this is a pretty rare and severe diagnosis but he is not improving or getting worse just staying the same. There was never any aggression in the display as it is a 75 bowfront with 2 clowns 1 Kole Tang and 1 chalk bass. Nothing was added prior to his affliction. So I am really at a loss and I don't want to lose my fish. What do you think is going on? Do you think that all the fish are at risk? Should I "put him down" . How long can this go on? <I would not sacrifice this fish... can go on... for years> My Process of elimination: not water quality or debris as I vacuum and water change regularly I don't' think malnutrition he does eat I don't think gas bubbles / microbubbles or excess gas I use RO water and agitate it overnight before adding so far seems to be non-infectious no visible marks on body or fins doesn't seem to be parasitic I don't' think he has been harassed belly is not swollen and fins in good shape not overcrowded <I agree/concur with your synopsis... as stated... tis likely blood/vascular in nature... some recurring semi-permanent damage to the circulation feeding the one eye... very hard to impossible to completely cure in some cases/circumstances... Providing the best conditions, nutrition... as you've done, is about the best shot for helping> Thanks in advance for you help. Hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely Nadeane <Bob Fenner>

Popeye and snails 4/8/06 I have been looking over several of your FAQ's about Popeye. I am not sure if this is happening to my six line wrasse, so I am asking your opinion. Last night I noticed the six line's eye, only one eye, was protruding, no cloudiness. None of the other 9 fish show any signs of problems. I am sure I will not be able to catch this six line in my 90 gallon reef tank with out causing major issues and disassembling my reef tank. The six line is acting normally and eating great, what should I do? <Likely nothing> I think I should leave him alone, since it will be a major undertaking to capture him. My main concern Is there any chance it could spread? <Not much... Probably just the one fish bumped into something...> Also I read that your against populating a reef tank with crabs, blue and red legs. Will snails be sufficient? What would be the best type to use in lieu of crabs? <See WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/snailselfaqs.htm> Thanks for your great advice with several of my questions and issues. It has helped me stay in the hobby. Once again thank you, Dallas <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Popeye on a YTBT, Epsom, duration 3/31/06 Hi! My name is Lisa, I have a Blue Tang with Popeye. I understand that you can treat this with Epsom Salt. How much would you put in your tank and would you have to move the charcoal from you filters? <Can leave the charcoal in place> How many times would you put Epsom Salt in your tank? How long does this take to treat? <A level tsp. per five gallons of system water, leave as long as the exophthalmia is present, replace with water changes. Bob Fenner> Popeye on Coral Beauty Angel 11/15/05 Greetings! <Salutations> Great Site!!!! <Thank you> Yesterday morning, I noticed my Coral Beauty Angel had a case of Popeye (in just one eye). As the day progressed, it became larger. Thanks to your site, I found that it must be an injury and I can treat with Epsom Salt, which I did yesterday evening @ 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons. This morning the eye looks worse yet. It's eye is very large and now because he's been flicking his eye off of the live rock, he's damaging it. <Mmmm...> Is the flicking because the Popeye is as irritating as it looks, or is there some other problem that I'm not aware of. <Hard to tell... but magnesium sulfate does take a while (a few days generally) to effect positive, visible change> Is there anything else I can do besides wait and pray for the best? Any info would be greatly appreciated Brandy Cook <If the system is otherwise stable, optimized, I would just leave the fish in it, along with the Epsom, and hope. Bob Fenner>

Popeye/Invert. IDs/interested in helping/WWM 9/29/05 Hello to all. I recently had to do a major move for my fish, a couple of days later I noticed one of my clown's eyes was bulging. He had got caught in the net during the move and the water and sand was greatly stirred causing quite a mucky mess. So I am guessing that the Popeye was due to an injury received, then being in the messy water for a minute didn't help. <Well-stated> I immediately removed the fish and placed him in QT. It has now been near 2 months. I started off using melafix (hahaha-what a waste!) <Agreed> since it indicated that it is helpful for Popeye. <Scam!> Then I got into the FAQ's on this site and started adding Epsom salt (no longer adding melafix), 1 tbls per 5 gal. Wow! What a tremendous help! So now, I realize my fish can be in QT for quite some time, however.... when do I know that it is safe to put him back in his display tank? The eye started to look as if it was going to fall out, that was before the Epsom salt was added. The swelling went down and it has been at an idle position for a few weeks now. Will the eye go back into 'socket' or what should I expect in a general scenario? <The eye may never fully "shrink" back... If the fish is otherwise healthy, I would go ahead and return it to the main tank> Any help would be greatly appreciated. Another thing if you have spare time..... Any locations (I am looking into books as well) recommended for ID of various growths? I believe some of the growths to be sponges of some sort, but there are some worms that I am unfamiliar with and a creature of some sort that has grown out of a tube (I can not explain this one, too odd for my vocabulary. I'm hoping the fact that it has a tube may be helpful in guiding me, haha far fetched but I'm hopeful) But the worms.....maybe you know this one without seeing an image. When looking at the rocks all you see is little thread like strings spread out. They sometimes reach from one rock to another. There are a great deal of these little "strings" appearing to be a greenish color. Upon further inspection, these strings are attached to the top of the body of a worm (like a mass of stringy hair)....the worms are orange in color ranging from small to quite large. I have taken a syringe and squirted water in that area....when doing this, debris floats up. It is like these worms gather uneaten food, and gunk and just set in it. Thanks for the patience in my attempt to explain. I am looking in to a digital camera, maybe when I do this one of you will be interested in viewing the pictures. <Mmm, we have a bunch of Invertebrate Identification files, and Ron Shimek has done a great job of writing up guides to such unknowns and his work is largely published, accessible on the Net... additionally, he, Anthony Calfo and I have printed ID works on invert.s, and there are many such scientific and popular diving references... many of which are cited at the ends of my articles posted on WWM, and available through SeaChallengers.com, Amazon...> Ok.....one last thing! : ) I am throwing ideas around in my head. I am interested in starting some sort of salt water research/business. I don't want to jump into this, I am still young and have lots of things to learn. However, it is very interesting and enticing. I believe I could do great things with it and would like some input as to how feasible this would be to accomplish, especially not living near a coast. <Many possibilities... and exciting!> What would be the best way to go about learning what I need to know (i.e. the scientific names, medications, etc.) other than trial and error. <T and E... too long and costly... Reap the benefits of those who have come before... read, voraciously, widely... with a discerning mind... directed toward discovering "needs" in the trade... to exploit, develop> I am not sure exactly how you go about choosing members to respond to e-mails, and I am sorry if I am bluntly butting in, but are you looking for any more help? (I think that is one of the best ways for me to learn is by teaching others)....just thought I'd throw that in there while it was on my mind. Thank you!!!!! Codie <Always looking for help. Please tell me/us a bit about yourself... your area/s of expertise, time availability (we have many young and not friends who have school, other commitments that they must focus on foremost)... It is obvious you have a good grasp of English, a desire to help. Bob Fenner> Maroon Clown Popeye and odd behavior 7/14/05 Hello, I have two maroon clowns, one is yellow striped the other is just a regular white striped. I have them both in a ten gallon tank with live sand and about 8 lbs of live rock, along with a few various inverts. The salinity of my tank is about 1.022 and the water is changed regularly. The two clowns have been getting alone quite well, they follow each other everywhere. They also are hosting a clay pot which I placed in the aquarium. <All sounds good, but inverts generally do better at natural salinity levels (~1.025). Also, 10 gallons is quite small for a single maroon clown, let alone a pair.> The problem is that while the other clown appears to be fine, the yellow striped maroon seems to be disoriented. When and if it tries to swim, it speeds around in circles all over the tank. Most of the time however it lies on the bottom either upside-down or on its side not doing anything. It doesn't seem to be gasping for air and I can't see any visible injuries on it. I have noticed that both its eyes are severely bulged. Is there anything I can do? Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Alex <Popeye is commonly caused by physical injury. A bump or a scrape can inflame the orbit causing it to bulge. However, when injury is the cause, it is usually isolated to one eye. When Popeye occurs in both eyes, it is usually an infection. I would remove the sick fish to a hospital tank. Unfortunately, the fish is probably doomed. I generally don't recommend the use of antibiotics, but in this case a broad spectrum antibiotic may be indicated. Be sure to put a small amount of household bleach into any antibiotic treated water before pouring it down the drain. This will prevent any antibiotic resistant bacteria from being released into the environment. Best Regards. AdamC.> Please Help me clarify this... Popeye, not the Sailor-Man 7/6/05 Hello! It's me again. First off, let me say thank you for all your help thus far. I know you said last time not to write to you in HTML, and I've tried my best to turn off those settings on my email (I'm a bit computer stupid) so I hope I've managed that. <I just copy and paste the view version...> Anyway, recently I've noticed my green wolf eel has a swollen eye on her left side. it's slightly blue in color. I'm not quite sure if it's pop-eye. <Mmm, this is just a descriptive term... says little to nothing re root cause/s... like you "having a bump"> I'm almost sure it's not, but I just wanted to clarify. I say that I'm almost sure because she's recently taken to swimming through this hole in one of the rocks in the tank, and the hole is only just larger than she is, so I believe she may have bumped her eye against the rock. <Quite likely> however, she's completely lost her appetite and she hasn't eaten anything in about four days, which is strange for her because she normally eat one large shrimp or a few Rosies a day. <Do go w/o food at times> so I'm not one-hundred percent sure if her swollen eye is just injury related. and if it is, will Epsom salt affect my chocolate chip starfish, <Should be fine with the Epsom> because I haven't got a hospital tank for treatments. And if she does have Pop-eye, would it be safe for me to have my eel in a bucket with some sort of filtration system for treatment? <Better to not remove the animal> by the way, water qualities are rather good. nitrates was up a bit, but I've done a 30% water change and added a bit of Amquel, so that shouldn't be a problem. thanks again! ~Jules <Bob Fenner> Eye Popped Out (5/13/05) Hello Crew,<Steve Allen with you tonight.> This is an update/question about my yellow tang with pop eye. Well I think the pop eye is cured because the eye fell out. <In the same way that amputation cures gangrene I guess.> He now has no eye in the socket. He seems to be doing fine, eating acting normally, do you think he can do well with one eye? <Yes, a one-eyed fish can survive and thrive. Zero eyes is harder. Just like people with only one kidney are strongly advised to not risk it by playing football and such, I would recommend you avoid aggressive tankmates that could go after the other one.> I took him out of quarantine after 14 days and he adjusted to the main tank fine? Anything else I could do for him? <Just take good care of him.> Thank you, Concerned Yellow Tank Dad <Sounds like he's on the mend and should be OK.>

Stocking suggestions for 100 gal FOWLR Hello, crew. Great site! Amazing amount of info here. <Thanks> My fianc?and I have a nice 55 gal reef set up for about a year. We've decided to do a FOWLR (about 100 gal) to house fish that we've really wanted but couldn't put in the reef. I've insisted on careful pre-research on stocking, and I've spent many, many hours reading FAQs before writing you guys for a "reality check". This hypothetical tank would have ~100 lb live sand, ~100 lb live rock, Remora Pro skimmer, adequate mechanical filtration, etc. We've become quite skilled at keeping water parameters good (e.g. thriving, huge BTA in the reef). The one fish we definitely want is a lion -- thinking a dwarf fuzzy (yellow, hopefully), D. zebra, or P. sphex. Of course, the next question is, what else? I wanted a puffer, but ruled that out because the only ones that are small enough (sharpnosed) would maul the lion. Bummer. How about triggers? I read through the trigger FAQs (lots of them!!) -- only ones that might work are the Picasso and related (smaller, less aggressive). I found mixed messages about Picasso triggers with lions -- some (e.g. Cody in the Picasso FAQ) say "OK", others (scattered throughout various FAQs) do not. Is this a crap shoot? <Yes... well put> Wrasses -- looks like most will get too big pretty quickly (rather have more smaller fish, 5-6", than fewer big fish) except for Halichoeres, e.g. "ornate wrasse" (already have a lined wrasse in the reef tank, want something different/burlier). Angels -- too big except for dwarf angels (flame angel or equivalent). So it looks like: - Dwarf lion of some sort (the only "sure thing" in this tank) - Dwarf angel [added last] - Ornate wrasse or another Halichoeres - Picasso trigger (maybe?) <Could try the last... not suggested> Good mix? Suggestions (favorites within genus? Other types of fish that I overlooked?) <There are... many> welcome! I wouldn't mind a butterfly or something else colorful and "non-reef-safe". Or... something that eats algae? I know we can't have smaller fish because they would be lion food, but a "bigger" blenny/goby? <Could> Thanks much for helping me plan, and narrow the search! Dan <Best to keep dreaming, scheming here to expand your list of choices. Maybe try family to family... Bob Fenner> Queen Angel with Popeye in both eyes I have a Queen Angel about 4" in size, notice 2 weeks ago she got pop eye in one eye and couldn't see out of that side because she was running into thing on that side. After a couple days it didn't seem to get any better so we QT her in a 20 g tank, Have been treating with Maracyn Plus for that past 10 days with no results, last night I gave her a fresh water dip and the swelling seem to dissipate. But return this morning, she is breathing very heavy and is pale to the color, did a water quality test and all seems normal. I'm getting nervous because she hasn't eaten in a couple of days, I Held some seaweed right in front of her and she wouldn't touch it. Any ideas, I would hate to loose my precious Queen. Stephen Cox Crystal Marine <Whatever the cause/s, the best course of action here is to reduce the specific gravity of your water and add Epsom salt... these matters are covered on WWM re exophthalmia. Bob Fenner>

Help with Wimple, pop-eye/exophthalmia Hi Crew, <Eric> Thanks for you help in the past I've had great advice from you. My setup is a Juwel Trigon 350 with Live Rock, Polyps and the following tank mates: Atlantic Anemone Bubble Anemone Bamboo Crab Hermit Crabs (Various) Turbo Snails 2 x Cleaner Shrimp Golden Cleaner Wrasse <Am wondering what species this is> 2 x Tank bred Clowns Regal Tang Yellow Tang Wimple Fish The problem I'm having is with my Wimple, which I just put into my tank a week ago from my quarantine tank along with my regal tang. They both had white spot and were cured after a long stay in the quarantine tank. After two days I spotted a couple of white spots on the Wimple and decided to give it a fresh water dip, which helped and hasn't had a spot since. I've noticed now that his eye has swollen up and not sure what it is. <One sided? Likely resultant from a physical trauma... a bump, net whack...> I've tried to take a picture of both eyes, which I've uploaded to http://www.jooste.f2s.com/Gill.html <Good pix... left eye exophthalmia> I've tested the water and found everything to be fine other than my Nitrates at 20ppm, which I'm battling to get down, and it looks like a hint of Nitrite (testing with Salifert, which results in a very light pink). I've been dosing the tank with Amquel+, to try and get the Nitrates down, and I also use Kent ZOE, Kent Iodine, and sometimes the Kent ZooPlex. If you could please help me find out what is wrong with my Wimple and how can help him get his eye back to normal. Thank you in Advance Eric <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm and the linked files at top. Bob Fenner>

Compatibility Hello, I had a question in mind which is troublesome. In my marine reef tank, the ignorant lawnmower blenny keeps on chasing the Hawkfish like its food. Is the flame Hawkfish able to defend itself, since the blenny is really big. The Hawkfish just keeps on exploring though. They are both breathing extremely quick after a chase and if they don't stop I am going to remove the blenny. Is there any sort of fish that is able to intimidate such large blenny? <The idea is to have compatible tanks mates, not to find one to be the enforcer.> Also, I have a little tomato clownfish ( recently added in) who is extremely feisty. He attempts/ does attack my pair of Sebae or black percula clownfish. However, my purple tang viciously chases off the tomato with his fins, and the pygmy assists in trying to nip at its tail.. Do you think the tang have a bond with the pair? <No, just defending territory> Should I remove the tomato and throw him into my smaller tank and just bring up the pair of false percula clowns instead? <Tomatoes are feisty as you say, and the larger they get, the worse it is. I'd see if you could trade him in, or put him in another tank to avoid the problems. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks for your time! <You're welcome>

Popeye, not the Sailor-man 8 Feb 2005 I have a coral beauty with pop eye. Having read up on this it seems to be an injury. He is eating well and behaving normally. <That's good news. Usually very fixable> I have read your FAQ's and just want to ask some specific questions. I do not have a separate tank and would like to treat in my main tank. It's a 55gal. I do a 20% water change every 3 weeks and my water quality is good. <Great!> In my tank I have A bubble tip Anemone, several kinds of shrimp, flame scallop live rock, yellow tang, cinn clown, damsels, several varieties of star fish hermit crabs, feather dusters, snails, clams, will the Epsom salt harm any of these??? <They shouldn't. What they might do is affect your magnesium levels with at the outside might effect your pH. Shouldn't do any of that though.> Also would I add the Epsom salt right to the tank or do I need to dissolve it first???? <I prefer to dissolve mine and add it to my sump if I'm putting it into the big tank.> Once added will it effect my Specific gravity much??? & Should I compensate for this??? <Shouldn't affect it at all. Good luck, MacL>

- Treating Pop-eye - I have a coral beauty with pop eye. Having read up on this it seems to be an injury. He is eating well and behaving normally. <Ahh good, good signs.> I have read your FAQ's and just want to ask some specific questions. I do not have a separate tank and would like to treat in my main tank. its a 55gal. <Should be able to treat in place provided no one is hassling this fish. He needs peace and quiet.> I do a 20% water change every 3 weeks and my water quality is good. In my tank I have A bubble tip Anemone, several kinds of shrimp, flame scallop live rock, yellow tang, cinn clown, damsels, several varieties of star fish hermit crabs, feather dusters, snails, clams, will the Epsom salt harm any of these??? <No, should be safe to use in small amounts.> Also would I add the Epsom salt right to the tank or do I need to dissolve it first???? <I would dissolve it first in a glass of tank water.> Once added will it effect my Specific gravity much??? <I can if you add too much.> & Should I compensate for this??? <Not for now, but good to run the tests anyway. Cheers, J -- >

- Moorish Idol Popeye - Hey guys, I lost your reply about my Idol but thought I better give you an update. I wrote to you on Jan 18 and stated that my Idol had severe Popeye in both eyes. He hadn't eaten in about 2 weeks at the time. Just this week he started eating again and is eating vigorously. One eye is still terrible and he appears to be blind in it. <Bummer.> The other eye is pretty good now but he can't seem to pinpoint his food very well. He tries hard though and eventually gets it. Maracyn didn't seem to work and neither did Furan-2. <The causes of Popeye aren't always bacterial... and in those cases Maracyn and Furan compounds won't do anything to help.> Prayer was the best option. PS: you said that they are best viewed in the wild--I agree. My wife and I both have dove the Kohala and Kona Coasts of Hawai'i and they are magnificent. Moorish Idol lovers, don't give up. <I'm sorry, but I just don't agree... when 99% of these fish that are caught for use as pet fish, die... something ain't right. Hope things work out for you and your Moorish Idol, but having dived with them myself, I just can't encourage anyone to keep them. Cheers, J -- > Help! Green Water and Maracyn Hi Folks, <Valerie> Thank you for all your work on answering our questions! <Welcome> I have a Queen Angel with one severe Popeye. I have treated with Epsom salts (twice), and have done 3 days of Maracyn treatment (tonight/tomorrow will be the 4th and 5th days). The Popeye is still bad and is now showing additional "bubbles" on the Popeye. <Good observation, bad situation. Cases like this prove to be very persistent... months to forever/incurable> I understand that improvement of the Popeye may take a week or so. <I hope you're right> What I am worried about is that today the water in the tank is green! Could the Maracyn be causing that? <Yes... anti... biotic... Maracyn is a brand name for Erythromycin...> I had removed my charcoal and PhosGuard on the second day. Should I add it back in? <Nothing> the Maracyn package says that if the charcoal is more than 5 days old it can stay in the system. <Yes... carbons are very rapidly exhausted... ones more than a few hours in use are almost entirely "used up"> I have keep the skimmer running although there is a lot of foam in the sump. I turned the UV off but just put it back on after reading on your site that it can stay on. All other fish are doing fine. Thank you so much for your help!!! Valerie <Lots to say... I take it you're read through the FAQs on Popeye/Exophthalmia archived on WetWebMedia.com and if not, I would do so (you can use the Google search tool on the homepage)... other than stable, optimized conditions, good nutrition, there is not much else "to do" here. Bob Fenner> Re: treatment for Popeye I received the below email on 01/03 stating to use 1 teaspoon of Epsom per 5 gallons of water. Someone submitted today a question regarding seeing many different amounts of Epsom prescribed for this condition, as I have also seen. <Yes> I am only using the 2 teaspoons as stated below, and after 1.5 weeks in the hospital he is NO better. Should I increase the amount all the way to 2 tablespoons? <Up to you. Worth trying at this point> I would like him to get better in the next 1.5 weeks as I am leaving for a few days, and I don't think my husband wants to handle the water changes required for this hospital tank. Please let me know, and thanks in advance for any information you can provide to help my little friend. <Understand... that discourse over the Net necessarily requires generalities, "rules of thumb"... and better to shy on the conservative end of any given treatment regimen. Bob Fenner>

Re: treatment for Popeye OK.. thanks, I think I will increase the dosage incrementally and monitor him. I agree about being on the conservative end, I usually do that, and will continue to do so. Keeps me out of trouble! <You are wise here... or at least we're both lost! Bob Fenner>

Treatment for Popeye Hi everyone, hope you are having a wonderful New Year 2005! I have a somewhat urgent question, as it seems all questions to this site must be. <Mmm, some definitely more so than others> I have an algae blenny with Popeye, he has had it about 3 weeks, and it was not getting better in my main tank though my water parameters are good. (pH 8.0-8.2, nitrite = 0, nitrate =10ppm, ammonia = 0, alkalinity 32.meq/L, temp 79 F, salinity 1.024). Last night I took him out of the main tank an put him in the bare bottom hospital tank. I have a powerhead with venturi and a heater and thermometer. I have a PVC tee in the bottom for hiding. <Good> I don't have biological filtration, and the water is newly made up. <Will need such filtration, soon. Perhaps a seeded sponge filter> I did adjust for temp, salinity and pH. He seems fine both in the main tank and now in the hospital tank. Just the eye looks cloudy and swollen. I added Melafix as this has worked for me before for Popeye, with cloudiness. Should I add Epsom salt as well (with the Melafix)? <I would add it... and not any more Melafix> how much for a 10 gal tank? <Two level teaspoons> If this doesn't work after a week, what should use? and should I remove all the water with Melafix before starting something else? <Give the Epsom at least a month...> Also, since I don't have biological (or other filtration) how much water change should I do per day? <Monitor, test for ammonia, change out enough to keep below 1.0 ppm.... As stated, look for biological filtration... and do water changes with water from an established (your main) system. The cause of the Popeye is physical, environmental> And should I add water from my main tank into the hospital tank for the changes, and just put the new water that I make up in the main tank? <Ahh, the former> I understand that I should have used the water from my main tank to begin with, but that just didn't work out. Maybe using the main tank water for hospital tank changes will make up for it, and give my main tank a small refresher each day as a bonus! <Good thinking. Bob Fenner>

Re: treatment for Popeye Thanks so much for your quick response. Is there some way I can get the biological filtration started quickly to reduce the number of water changes? BioSpira or other additive, as I currently don't have a seeded sponge filter? Can I add a small piece of live rock? <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm> I really don't want to do water changes every day for a month. I did it the first time just last night (about 2 gallons) and it was a real pain. I have tested the ammonia 3 times since night before last, and it is staying below .25ppm at this point. Also, when I do the water change do I add more Epsom (25% change, 1/2 teaspoon Epsom)? Will the Epsom help with the cloudiness and the swelling? <Yes and yes> Thanks so much for your help, it has been invaluable to me. Also.. because of my research on your website, I just upgraded my Prizm protein skimmer to an AquaC Remora Pro...is has been installed for 3+ days, and has done better in that time (not even broke in yet) than my Prizm ever did in that same time or longer! I had that Prizm for 2.5 years and never knew that there was better... knowledge is power! <Indeed and in action. Bob Fenner>

The Eye Has It! (Injured Eye) Hi Crew, <Hello there! Scott F. here today!> I have a 10gallon SW setup for a year, 1-2 inches sand, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10-20 nitrates. Two PJ cardinals, 1 clown goby and a Sixline Wrasse, snails and hermits and 2 Peppermint Shrimp for the past 6 months. <Sounds like a nice active nano system.> The wrasse would attack the shrimp if they ventured out from an overhang, but did not bother them if they stayed there even though it would swim right next to them. <All part of the fun of wrasses. No two individuals are alike, but they are certainly known for being potential predators on small inverts. Just keep an eye on things to make sure that everyone gets along> I was away for week, and when I came back the shrimp are gone without a trace and the wrasse has a swollen eye. Water still in same condition and all are eating as usual. Aside from trying to guess what happened. What, if anything- should I use to help the eye problem? <Sounds like it might have been a trauma to the eye of some sort. This is generally the case when just one eye is swollen. Usually, these types of injuries will clear up themselves by simply maintaining good water quality, but you can speed it along by adding some Epsom salts to your tank to help draw down the swelling a bit. Hang in there, and your fish should be okay! Regards, Scott F.> Chalk Bass problems Hi there, my name is Rachael and I was hoping you could help me with something. I have a 50 gallon marine tank, it's 6 months old and has set up nicely. The water quality is good and we just recently purchased VHOs so we could have some neat corals and an anemone. My question for you though has to do with my Chalk Bass. << Keep him, great fish to have. >> He was the first fish that we purchased, we've had him for about 5 months. Within the first three or four days that he was in our tank, one of his eyes puffed out and was like that for about a week. It went back to normal and within two days it was all puffed out again, it looked as though there were air bubbles under his scales, it was really big! But after about a week and a half, it went back to normal. Then about a week later, it puffed out again, bigger than either of the two times before, and it looked as though it were going to pop; well it didn't then but it took about three weeks for it to go back to normal. While my husband and I were going through this ordeal with our fish, we couldn't find any sort of disease that matched the symptoms of our fish, so we sort of wrote it off as an injury. We have about 20 pounds of live rock in our tank and he likes to swim really fast in and out of the rocks, so it seemed plausible. About a week ago, his eye was all puffed out again, worse than ever, and two days ago, the top of it popped, so it was still kind of puffy at the bottom. The top 'skin' was hanging over his eye impairing his vision, and then yesterday, the rest of it popped. I can't tell if he still has his eye or not because the floppy skin surrounding it is blocking my view of it. I was wondering if you knew if his eye might grow back or if he will possible be blind in one eye? << He is most likely blind in that eye. It is unfortunate, I would have taken him out of the tank, and into a hospital tank the first time it happened. In fact, I would still do it now, and treat him with some antibiotics from a LFS. >> Do you know of anything that could have caused the puffiness, besides injury? Is there anything I can do - take him to a fish doctor or something? Thanks for your time, I look forward to your reply. << That is tough, good luck with him. >> Rachael Evans << Blundell >>

Popeye- PT 2! Just thought I would follow up. The eye is already looking better barely swollen at all and he is out and swimming all over the tank and eating good, so I guess all is good. Will treat him though, if I can catch him! lol <Well, the fact that he is active and moving is great to hear!> I noticed the Purple, now that he has rocks, is rubbing up against them. Do tangs just normally do this or is this a bad sign? <Well, "rubbing" and scratching is not something that is normal in a healthy fish, for the most part. An occasional "scratch" or two is nothing to be overly concerned about, but consistent rubbing on tank decor is a sign of a potential problem. Keep a very careful eye on this fish, just to be sure that everything is okay> No spots and was in qt for 3 weeks and I watched him at the fish store for two weeks before purchasing him (them) and they have been disease free thus far. I did have a bad case of ich that wiped out my tank, but I removed the two remaining fish, put them in QT and let the tank go fallow for 6 weeks, lowered the salinity to 1.015 and raised the temp to 86 for four of the fallow weeks and treated the remaining fish in qt with copper. I did the same thing with the salinity and temp. No signs of any ich, so just wondering if this is normal for Tangs. Haven't seen any other fish do this. <As above- do keep an eye on this. Of course, these guys do have a propensity to get ich.> Thanks and keep up the great work! Couldn't handle this hobby without yall! JB <You're quite welcome, JB! Glad to be here for you! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Epsom salts and Pop-eye 6/17/04 I was reading some of the other questions re: pop eye, and am still left confused. <no worries... I spend most of my days like that... confused, that is... not with pop-eye <G>)> I have a 10 gallon tank with a molly, a platy, a frog and a loach. My silver molly has one eye that seems to have popped out tremendously! <usually caused by blunt force. A black-eye so to speak> Other than the eye, he appears to be normal as do the others. The fish person at Petco recommended to treat with "quick Cure" for 5 days. <Yikes!!!!! Very mistaken. Not harmful, but not even remotely useful for this ailment (a good med overall though for parasites)> I've done that, and have not noticed any difference. <indeed... at worst, this is a bacterial infection that requires antibiotics. Usually, though, it is merely an accumulation of fluid behind the eye from getting a little bump. > I saw you recommended isolating the fish to another tank and using Epson salt, but I only have a fish bowl I could use. Will a molly survive in a bowl vs. tank to administer the treatment?<Hmmm... in this case, since the symptom is suspected to be non-contagious, you can treat it in the main tank> If so, how much Epson salt do I use? <one tablespoon per five gallons then repeat after three days with another half dose. A water change in between will be helpful>> Also, my tank currently has a small amount of aquarium salt dissolving in a container to help maintain my water levels, will this do the same as Epson salt? <they are unrelated... no. Sodium chloride versus Magnesium sulfate> Please help me. This is all rather new to me. Thanks. Wendy Dern <no worries my dear... I suspect your fish will be fine very soon :) Anthony>

Pop-eye Fish 6/17/04 Hi, <Hi Jen> I know there is a lot on pop-eye but my chalk Basslet has symptoms I haven't come across. One eye is "popped". There was a bubble that came out from between the flesh of his head and the top of his eye. It got worse over four days then was gone this morning. But, by this evening there was a tiny bubble forming in the same spot. There is also blood in the eye. It fills half of it and stays level with the ground when he swims. The blood has stayed bright red for four days.<Possibly internally bleeding behind it.> He is also definitely blind in this eye. I've only had him four days though I had seen him a lot before he was given to me and I knew he was healthy until the store put him in one of those tanks that is a series of cubicles on the same water supply. In another of the cubicles was a fish that has had pop-eye since they got him, untreated. <Such a shame> My fish got pop-eye a week after being put in there. He was in a 90 gal display tank for 2 yrs before they broke it down. I've changed the water every day 10% in a 12gal holding tank and the pop is less. <That's good.> He is eating well and is very active. He had a long journey here, 5hrs. He relaxed into his new tank faster than any fish I've ever had-I put him in in late at night and by the next morning he was acting like he'd been there all along. <Pop-eye can be causes by injury, parasite or infection. I'm inclined to say this is infection,> I'll try Epsom salts right away. <I must tell you that Epsom salts have been a major life saver for me with Popeye. Does amazing things by relieving the pressure.> But I'm wondering about he other fish in the store, is it a coincidence? <Hard to say but most likely its not.> And the blood, bubbles, and blindness? If the pop-eye is cured will he see again? <If the eye has sustained permanent damage (which the blood generally indicates) then he will remain blind in that eye.> I still have to get him all the way home, an even longer journey including a short flight, is there something I can do to lessen the stress? <I personally have had very good luck with some of the stress chemicals, stress guard, stress coat, etc.> Is it better to put him in a 5gal bucket with an air pump or a bag (can't shoot oxygen in the bag I'm in the boonies) for 5 hrs in a car? <I would think the bucket would be best as long as he couldn't jump out and didn't get sloshed around too badly. BUT you will have the problem with maintaining temperature in a bucket that you wouldn't have in a bag in a cooler. Just remember if you do decide to go with the bag that you can check on him.> Thanks, Jen XXXX@lycos.com <Good luck Jen, hope he gets better quickly, MacL.>

Pop Eye Injury <Hi, MikeD here> I read through your forums and I am on the third day of the Epsom Salt treatment for a Chalk Basslet.<OK> I noticed the one eye with apparent traumatic pop-eye was getter bigger. It's almost as big as its head. It's quite thin and clear.<OK> The fish is still actively feeding and alert. He is being careful and we are being careful, not to make him too nervous.<It's currently suspected that there are several different causes for pop eye, ranging from too rapid decompression during capture, to injury to possibly even a herpes simplex virus> The Basslet has been happy in the tank for over 7 months now.<This is good> The person we brought in to do a periodic 5 week servicing accidentally caused the fishes to panic.<Don't take this person to a china shop> My question is, if the swollen eye has not gone down during , what would be the next steps to take?<My suggestion is to do the safest thing you can possibly do. Nothing. If it's survived this long, it's possible the eye is of the viral infection type, as injuries often begin with a bloodied appearance. To my knowledge "cures" are somewhat rare with a very high incidence of reoccurrence, thus treatment is risky at best. If left alone the eye will either shrink back down to normal or gradually collapse on its own, in which case you often end up with a very healthy, happy one-eyed fish which can live for years. Sometimes changing it's name to "squint" or some such makes the owners happier, but the fish often do fine.> Thank you for your time...<My pleasure. At $XXXX/hr, the charge will be.**grin** You're very welcome.

Popeye & Source Water Questions (4/27/04) Hi, <Hello, Steve Allen here today.> I recently had a Hawkfish die. He had Popeye in only one eye (I have heard that it usually means he had an injury since it was only one eye). However, afterwards a six line wrasse died (no Popeye, not sure why he died, no signs of disease) Now two weeks later, I just noticed my clownfish has one eye popping out. Should I assume that it is bacterial, even though only one eye is popping. Should I remove him to QT. I am not sure if I should treat with Epsom salts or Maracyn. <Both Epsom salt and antibiotic would be a good idea here. The fact that several fish have had problems certainly suggests a contagious condition. I would QT the clown to protect the remaining fish and to be able to better monitor. Plus, you never want to put meds in the display. Read all the FAQs on Popeye.> I only have a Cardinal and Dottyback left in tank. PS. I have had all these fish for approximately 8 months. My water levels are always good. I have a 35 gallon hexagon tank. I use well water. I have decided to change to distilled water temporarily, thinking there may be a problem with my water. I am also starting to aerate and heat my water 24 hours before a water change (a gentleman who set me up with aquarium told me that it was not necessary.) But after much reading, I see that was the wrong advice. Anything else you think I should be doing. I am not sure why my fish are dying, but I am not ready to give up yet. <Hard to day for sure what's wrong. By "water levels are always good," do you mean zero ammonia and nitrite and low nitrate. Well water is often high in nitrate & phosphate, which can certainly be detrimental. Rather than distilled water, you ought to look into reverse osmosis (RO). Consider purchasing and installing a system. It would only cost a couple of hundred bucks and you get water that's healthier and tastier for humans too.> Thanks, Debbie <Hope this helps.>

Popeye (not the sailor-man, toot toot) This is just some information I wanted to share with Bob Fenner. I've been reading the faq's for a long time, mainly the ones on Popeye and wanted his input on something that was happening in my tanks quite a while ago. It seemed that every new fish I'd add to my tank would bring on a case of scratching and shuddering on a few of the inhabitants already in the tank and sometimes the new addition as well. There would be no obvious spots on the fish other than occasionally a cloudy eye. After killing a cream angel through stressing it with all sorts of treatments I decided to try freshwater dips on all new victims. What actually fell off the fish were flat transparent oval parasites like mini lenses ranging from 1.5mm to 4mm and totally invisible in the main aquarium but would immediately turn white in freshwater and fall to the bottom. They seemed to be mainly on the fishes eyes and the eye would only turn cloudy and swell plus possibly develop a bubble if there were 2 or 3 on it. I have just purchased a blue ring angel over the internet and had it delivered even though the vendor informed me about his Popeye, after leaving him in a tank on his own for over a week to recuperate I decided to give him a freshwater dip and guess what, three of these little contact lenses fell off his eye and the Popeye is gone. My question really is why is this such a common problem with me but in all the internet Popeye theories I've read I've never heard anyone mention these mainly eye parasites as a cause of Popeye with an easy treatment. <Mmm, don't know, or am not so sure this is such a common link... cause-symptomatically> for months in my main aquarium these little things would return and the fish would scratch and shudder occasionally and a little flat disc would just about be visible on the eye of one or more fishes, this happened on a monthly cycle and has now stopped altogether. Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated as my local shops don't seem to know what they are even though I have taken the parasites that fell off the fishes with me in a small jar. best regards Archie <Thank you for sending your notes, observations along. I do suspect that the disks you saw were trematodes (flukes)... and that they might be linked to the symptoms you note. I am a BIG FAN of pH-adjusted freshwater dips for most all marine fish moves... as my long writing history will testify. Will archive your input for others edification. Bob Fenner>

Need help with Popeye.... I put my grouper which had Popeye in QT and he died after a few days, and now my Hawkfish has Popeye. I believe its time to treat the tank, even though it is a display tank; Please help me find a good treatment for Popeye that will take it out of my display tank... <Mmm, there is no "infectious or parasitic agent" that is the one or definitive "cause" of Popeye/exophthalmia in fishes... Was the problem unilateral/one-sided with both these fishes? Please read here re this condition: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm There is no sense simply "treating" the water with "medicine/s" at this point... Look to improving water quality, nutrition, and possibly a source of fine air-bubbles. Bob Fenner>

This Popeye Isn't Funny! I had my small Whitemargin lyretail grouper get Popeye, so I moved him to my hospital tank; I was wondering if Melafix would be all right for treatment? And once treatment is over, when I add him back to the tank will he just get it back all over again? <Well, Popeye is sometimes rather difficult to eradicate. Assuming it is Popeye (as evidenced by its appearance in both eyes-one eye would be a possible injury, instead), there are actually medicated foods that can do the trick. Often, the best "treatment" is to allow the fish some time in a quality environment. Keep a close eye on water quality, give the fish some time, and I'm sure that the fish can make a full recovery. Regards, Scott F>

Powering Through Popeye Day 5: Laz's pop-eye is finally deflating. <Good to hear> We did a 15-25% water change yesterday. His eye is a little cloudy and still as a slight bubble left. I believe the Epsom salt treatment and the Melafix caught it in time. I'll test his sight tomorrow, using his favorite supplement food, micro-pellets. <Wishing you and your fish the best! Regards, Scott F.>

Remove the Damsel or the corals? Hello to all (and especially a warm greeting to Anthony, who has been so helpful in the past!), <cheers my friend> I have an 80g reef tank, with LR and 6 corals (1 Torch, 1 Bubble, 3 mushroom colonies, and Green Star polyps), 1 Hippo, 1 Coral Beauty, 1 Neon Damsel, and 2 Perculas, along with assorted shrimp and crabs. I do 10g water changes weekly, and 20g once a month with IO. Everything has been fine: coral growth is good, parameters have stayed in the green zone, fish are robust etc. EXCEPT today I have noticed that the CB and the Damsel have Popeye bilaterally...you really have to look hard to notice, not like the pictures of Popeye that I've seen on your website. They are eating and swimming as usual. The only behavior change I see is a slight jerkiness, very minute, very sporadic. Resps aren't increased, nor are fins clamped, and I don't see any open areas on their bodies. From what I've read so far, one eye is trauma, both eyes are infection. <agreed... more than one eye or more than one fish implies a pathogenic cause> So, my question is, how in the world am I going to catch the Damsel to hospital-tank him? <the answer may surprise you... but it is fast and easy. Take a clean plastic garbage can or two, kill the power to the tank... and use a power head and tubing to pump the tank dry fast (minutes with any large powerhead). When the water gets down to just a few inches, you can catch any fish easily and gently without a stressful chase in the full tank. Always use two nets to catch fish... one to chase and one to sit waiting to catch. When the fish are caught... simply pump the tank full again. I have seen folks do this in 15 minutes or less for a tank your size. Less stress on you and the fish <G>> (He secretly wishes to kill us, if he can figure out how to get out of the tank.) Is it better to remove the corals and inverts to a hospital tank, and treat the main (the LR and 1" aragonite also) or would the medicine stay in the tank like copper and make it unsuitable to return the corals? <the fish must be removed... the meds would harm much in the system even without the corals> To get the Damsel out I will have to break down the entire tank. <not needed... draining the display will spare the need to move rock/sand> Should I treat first with Epsom salts as the Popeye seems to be mild (so far!). <I suspect you will need a broad spectrum antibiotic from the start> And last question: I have recently started feeding a homemade food made of 3 shell-on shrimp and tilapia, ground up with Selcon and Vit C, then frozen...could this be the source of the infection? <not likely at all... especially with frozen foods> Bought from the grocery store, "previously frozen", no smell or slimy parts when I processed it, and frozen immediately. I plan on a 20g water change today, though last change was Saturday. <no worries> Thanks for your time! Allison <kind regards, Anthony>

- What Did This? Pop-eye or Something Else? - Hi, <Hi.> I have a small blue velvet damsel in a tank with a Naso tang, two clownfish, and another damsel. <Boy, I hope this tank is at least 75 gallons for that Naso Tang...> I noticed a few days ago that one of his eyes was bulging out and a bit cloudy. At first, I thought that it was just from getting into a fight with the other damsel, but today I noticed something on his eye that looks like a leech. <Yuck.> I don't know what to do. <Well... for starters, I'd keep an eye [pardon the pun] on things for a while. This is likely one of two things: either trauma to the eye similar to a bump or bruise, and eye responds by swelling - this will resolve itself in time OR... this is a parasitic isopod, which looks very similar to a pill-bug - these are removed with tweezers, and if this thing is actually attached to the eye, would damage the eye if removed. So again, my recommendation is to keep watch on things - perhaps you will be able to determine exactly what that is on the eye.> Any help would be appreciated. <Cheers, J -- >

- Pop-eye Medication - Every article I read on swollen eye in marine fish I am told to use penicillin. <Interesting... this problem is usually due to an insult directly to the eye in question, although sometimes it is bacteria related. I wouldn't bother with penicillin.> I have ordered this medication from several online suppliers and the results have been the same, I am told shortage in the us and this is not available. What can I substitute for penicillin. <Try Epsom salts, one teaspoon per five gallons.> Thanks for any help you can give me. FRED <Cheers, J -- >

- Popeye Treatment - Hi there, <Hi.> we have a Clarkii Clownfish, who has one budging eye, I have read all the information you have posted on your site regarding this, and have put the Epsom salt in the tank. He has since stopped swimming in circles, but he wont eat. It has been 2 days since I seen him eat last. He has been in a QT tank for about a week now. <Do run tests on the quarantine water to make sure there is no ammonia build up. Could be you need a medium-sized water change.> Is there anything else we need to do to get him to eat? <Check the water chemistry, make any adjustments there if you have to, and then just give the fish some time.> So far the only difference the salt has made is stopped him from swimming in circles. <Takes a little while for the injury to heal. Isolation was the best thing to do for the moment. I would just do whatever it takes to give it peace and quiet - most importantly good water quality.> Thanks so much for your help Gwen <Cheers, J -- >

- Re: Popeye Treatment - Thanks for your quick response back to me. <My pleasure.> I will switch out the water again today. But we had just switched it right before we put him in there because we had a problem with our wrasse dragon. We lost him even after antibiotics. I put a few krill pieces of food in for the Clarkii yesterday, and he collected them all and put them in the same pile in the tank. <Interesting.> Kinda funny to watch that. <Indeed.> But for the most part, he took a few nibbles at some brine shrimp, so hopefully there is some hope for him. <I am hopeful...> Thanks again for the help. Gwen :o) <Cheers, J -- >

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