FAQs about Disease Treatments of Tangs
Tang Disease 1,
Tang Disease 2,
Tang Disease 3,
Tang Disease 4, Tang Disease 5, Tang Disease 6, Tang Disease 7,
Tang Health 9,
Tang Disease 10,
Tang Disease 11,
Tang Disease 12,
Tang Disease 13, &
FAQs on Tang Disease by Category:
Pathogenic (plus see below),
FAQs by Tang Disease by Pathogen: Tangs/Rabbitfishes & Crypt, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 2, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 3, Tangs/Rabbits Crypt 4, & Paravortex/Black Spot Disease,
The Surgeonfish family, Acanthurus, Ctenochaetus, Naso,
Zebrasoma , Prionurus, Surgeonfishes of Hawai'i, Surgeonfishes for Reef Systems,
Tangs in General, Tang ID, Selection, Tang Behavior, Compatibility, Systems, Feeding, Treating Marine Disease, Marine Diseases 2,
Dips/baths and quarantine... absolutely necessary.
And avoiding copper. This and hypo. will cause the
Tang/s to lose their necessary gut fauna, stop feeding, using foods
Beware of phony herbal "fix" cures and hot sauce
Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
by Robert (Bob) Fenner
New Fish (Tang) - Quarantine
Good afternoon Crew,
I feel your forum has a mixed bag of answers,
<... we don't have a forum>
and although I was pretty confident with my previous decision, I'm now
undecided. I've successfully treated numerous fish for crypt via
Cupramine in the past and have yet to experience a loss during that
<Acanthurids don't tolerate copper exposure well>
I enjoy the comfort of knowing I have a crypt free tank.
<I doubt this is the case... Most all hobbyist systems (99 plus percent)
have resident Cryptocaryon et al. infestations>
In Sept I bought a Kole Tang that I knew had Crypt, and requested both a
guaranty on the fish and $ discount from the store because of this. The
Tang was active, alert, plump, and feeding... thus I figured he'd be a
candidate to QT and utilize Cupramine to get him healthy for my display.
Finished the 16 day treatment and he was still feeding and looked
vibrant and healthy, so I introduced him to my display tank. 60g with
two Picasso clowns, yellow watchman goby, royal gramma, and a rose BTA.
him alone and for the first few days he was somewhat shy, but still
Approaching the two week mark in the display tank he remained hidden and
I can't recall seeing him eat in the display tank ever, although I
purposely left some hair algae alone for him to pick at. Roughly two
weeks, the Kole
Tang died. I know I used the proper dosage of Cupramine, and if I was
slightly off... I was likely slightly a lower dose than higher.
Previously Bob Fenner suggested that Tangs are definitely more sensitive
to copper treatments than other fish.
Maybe it was the Cupramine?
<Quite possibly a contributor>
Maybe it was something from the collection process - but then I'd
suspect perhaps this fish wouldn't have been active and feeding for the
first few weeks. Maybe he grazed my BTA, but I wonder if touching my BTA
could cause a two week decline and death in my Tang? Stumped.
<I agree w/ all your speculations>
So, in a long winded question... I'm afraid to add a new Tang directly
to my display tank. This seems like the least stressful way to introduce
a Tang, but I'm very concerned with a new Tang bringing crypt back into
<You are wise here>
If it was you, how would you introduce a new tang?
<Isolation, sans treatment for a few weeks, lowered spg (1.012).
Possibly CP feeding>
I do have a 20g bare bottom QT available. I hate any fish loss, and just
want to do what's best for my existing reef community as well as any new
acquisition. Thanks again!!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: New Fish (Tang) - Quarantine 11/9/17
Thanks. So, I assume gradually lower salinity from store water to the
1.012, and then eventually up it to my tank that sits at 1.023?
Possibly CP Feedings?
<... Please search WWM re Chloroquine Phosphate use>
Not following you there.
<Sorry re. BobF>
Kole Tang; hlth., and Cu f'
Good afternoon Crew,
I unfortunately experienced a loss in my tank last night - my Kole tang.
I've had a Kole Tang previously for years... a curious outgoing fish
that was constantly on the move. I have a shallow 60g tank, 79f, 1.024
salinity, no signs of nitrates/nitrites/ammonia - although I have been
allowing a little hair algae to grow for the upcoming arrival of my Kole
Tang. I'd say overall I feed rather lightly, sometimes every second day
(but am observing my fish growing/fattening up), and only enough that
a small amount of thawed frozen Mysis/brine/etc... falls to the
substrate for my snails/crabs/serpent star, etc
I currently have a few corals, bta, two clowns, yellow watchman goby,
royal gramma... I noticed a plump Kole Tang with what appeared to be ICK
at my LFS and offered to buy him at a greatly reduced price because I've
successfully QT and treated ICKY fish with Cupramine in the past, and
without losses. The Kole Tang went straight into my 30g QT bare bottom
tank and I followed the Cupramine instructions as always. The Kole Tang
would sometimes eat, sometimes not, but frequently picking away at
scraps that had stuck to the foam cover on the filter. He remained
active and plump for the 16day QT. With the Cupramine treatment over and
no signs of white spots, and what looked like a healthy active fish... I
introduced him to my display tank.
The Kole Tang's been shy, not as active, and while I've witnessed him
picking away at the glass and rocks from time to time, I rarely saw him
feeding with the other fish. Almost two weeks later... Last night, he
was on his side in the corner of my tank and breathing rapidly. He still
looked to be of a healthy size, but something was obviously wrong. I
felt that removing him at that point would cause more stress and certain
Watched my cleaner shrimp jump on him at that point, and the Kole Tang
swam away. I checked on him this morning and his outer body had been
completely picked away by hermit crabs and my serpent starfish.
Question... do you think the death may still be Ick related, even though
he appeared to have successfully finished a Cupramine treatment?
<Ick/Crypt might have been a factor... to extent here. As well as the
copper exposure. I suspect this fish had a trauma issue though. Perhaps
from collection, holding, transport...>
I don't think anything in my tank could've harmed him, and he had no
wounds of any sort. I'm assuming my small to medium sized bubble tip
anemone wouldn't have been the culprit (unless the BTA had actually
caught him and was eating him)?
<Could have had a brush here as well>
I'm stumped... I thought I had success in saving this fish from the
<Sometimes Dave, sometimes not. Bob Fenner>
Re: Kole Tang 10/18/17
Could a simple brush from the BTA have done something like that?
<Not likely a Ctenochaetus tang would perish from glancing a BTA; no;
not of/by itself>
I was thinking possibly trauma from collection, but in the QT he was
really active, breathing at what I perceived to be a normal rate, etc...
Cupramine indicates to treat at .5mg/l, and that toxic levels exist at
treatment was definitely at .5mg/l, having checked multiple times
throughout the 16 days. Are some fish (tangs?) more delicate with copper
<Re copper exposure; there is no sub-physiological dose. Akin to
old treatments of humans by mercuricals and arsenicals; you're killing
the host by degrees along w/ the parasite. Tangs are amongst the most
sensitive fishes to copper poisoning. Bob Fenner>
Trying to save my fish; CP f' 9/10/17
I had a group of 5 fish (juvenile Queen, an adult Imperator, a Powder Blue and
Achilles tangs and a smaller Blue Jaw Trigger) in my 160 gal QT system, made up
of 3 - 55gal tanks plus sump. They have been there since Aug.
12th. They seemed to be doing good at first. They were in lower salinity water
for over two weeks ~ 17ppt, temp 78F, pH around 8. I started to slowly bring the
parameters up to match my display when I saw Ick break out on the Tangs.
<Very common; as you likely know these two Tang species are VERY susceptible>
I lowered the salinity back down to 17ppt and did 2 treatments of Chloroquine
Phosphate (from National Fish Pharmaceuticals) . After a week the trigger died.
The Ick seems to have morphed into Amyloodinium
ocellatum - cloudy eyes, shedding slime, patchy white on the Achilles...I'm not
sure if the darkening pelvic fin is on the Powder Blue is a symptom of something
<Could be sampled, looked at under a 'scope. Perhaps just chemical/physical
The tangs have stopped eating.
The two angels are still in better shape - I only see white spots on the eyes
and they are still eating well. I gave both tangs a fresh water dip yesterday
but didn't see any improvement. I pushed the salinity lower to 14ppt. I am about
to do a 25% water change and give another treatment of Chloroquine. Am I missing
<The CP may be hurting more than helping here. >
Is there something else I should be doing? Here are some pictures.
<IF these were my fishes, I'd NOT use the quinine, but just drop the spg.
down to 1.010, and hope. They may be too impugned to come back at this point>
I would appreciate any suggestions you might have Thanks,
<I would have you read re others experiences w/ CP (on WWM) as well. Can be
tricky in use:
and the other Quinine FAQs files linked above. Bob Fenner>
Purple Tang - Ich - Cupramine
I have a dilemma and would appreciate your great advice as always.
Note that I have a permanent running and fully established 75 gallon
About 4 weeks ago I purchased a Purple Tang (maybe 5 inches in size).
<What did Gurley Halleck expound when seeing his first worm in "Dune"?
"Egads, what a monster"! This is a big Zebrasoma to purchase, collect
from the wild>
I purchased it from a reputable LFS. It was eating like a pig, was
active, and showed no signs of illness. They stated that it had been in
their possession for a few weeks.
As I do all new fish arrivals, I put it into my QT/Hospital tank for
close to two weeks.
<Mmm; no dip/bath enroute? I would do so... to "knock off" Protozoans,
Trematodes... external issues>
It was fine, eating like a pig, no issues, no illness. Thus, I moved it
to my 150 gallon DT. This tank has been disease free and all the
readings are very good. I believe in "over-filtration", thus there's
plenty of flow, a UV filter, oversized skimmer, oversized sump pump,
refugium (with Macroalgae, red mangroves..), and about 100+ pounds of
live rock...etc. I have high powered LED's on the tank. There's been no
issues of aggression within the tank and the Purple Tang would be
hypothetically considered the most aggressive type of fish in that tank
and the currently largest fish
for that tank, excluding a well fed 10 inch Snowflake Eel that minds his
own business and who's been a good citizen.
<Echidna spp. usually are>
Other inhabitants are a 3 inch Flame Angel, a 3 inch Koran Angel, a 4
inch Majestic Rabbitfish, and a 3 inch Sailfin Tang.
I knew that I was "rolling the dice" with the Sailfin Tang already being
in there, but after a lot of reading and visiting with LFS' I was fairly
confident it would work as I've previously introduced a Sailfin Tang
into a different 150 gallon tank with an established Yellow Tang that
has worked out well thus far and for over a year. IMO, from research and
experience, it seems like the Sailfin Tang's are more likely to co-exist
of the Zebra species if introduced at a different time.
<This is my and many others (recorded) experience as well>
After a little bit of posturing back and forth maybe for 2 days, the
Purple Tang and the Sailfin Tang adjusted and accepted each other. I
never witnessed any chasing or nipping, simply a bit of posturing,
flaring up of the fins. The Purple Tang continues to eat well. However,
within the last week the Purple Tang has developed Ich. None of
the other fish display any signs of Ich.
<Common and not uncommon>
The Purple Tang continues to eat like a pig, swims all over the place,
and seems very healthy, very happy, except for the Ich, always very
eager to eat, getting excited when I approach the tank. I feed him and
the tank a mix of mysis shrimp, brine/Spirulina, and algae sheets.
Since he developed Ich I've been adding Socol, VitaChem, and Metroplex
mixed with Garlic into the food this tank eats. All of the fish eagerly
eat at each feeding which is 3 to 4x a day. Usually I feed 2x a day, but
I stepped up feedings to hopefully strengthen their immune systems.
Here's my dilemma, I could move the Purple Tang to my QT/Hospital tank,
which seems like a no brainer, and for most any other fish I would do it
ASAP, but this Purple Tang, despite its case of Ich is a very happy fish
that's very active and eats like a pig. I am concerned about stressing
it out, trying to catch it, then move it to a new tank. Might this put
into a downward spiral?
<It could; yes>
I've always successfully used 1/2 the recommended dosage of Cupramine to
treat Ich. Keeping the fish in QT for 4 weeks. I just ordered some
Dr.G's Caviar that includes CP too that I intend to feed this 150 gallon
DT with the Purple Tang. I've done some research on Purple Tang's and
Cupramine and it appears that they might have more sensitivity than most
other fish to Cupramine?
<Tangs and allies... and a few other fish families/groups too... You can
search, read this on WWM, in books I've penned>
Thus, this too, makes me think I should continue to treat the DT with
medicated food. However, am I doing the right thing? Would you move the
Purple Tang to the QT? Thank you.
<I would NOT move the Tang... but leave in place, continue w/
the feeding treatments you're doing and have planned. Some
archived input on the subject here:
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Fw: Purple Tang - Ich - Cupramine
I forgot to mention that this 150 gallon DT with the Purple Tang is a
reef tank, thus my use of treatment so far by medicated food.
<Ahh; please read here as well:
and the linked.... B>
Re: Purple Tang - Ich - Cupramine 6/10/16
Thanks Bob. I very much appreciate your expertise. I really needed
someone of your caliber of experience to review my dilemma and give
<Glad to share, render it>
My gut has been to keep the Purple Tang in the DT considering it behaves
very healthy, eats like a pig, seems really well adjusted, except for
the Ich, but I've been torn, knowing that I have an established QT.
BTW, note that on my QT/Hospital tank, for all new arrivals, unless I am
aware of any sensitivity to Cupramine, I dose the QT tank with 1/4 to
1/2 the recommended dosage of Cupramine for two weeks as my method to
treat for any diseases before introducing them into the DT.
<Mmm; well; the standard spiel re treatments, moda am sure you're
familiar w/; and Cu++ exposure period... does more harm than good
beneath some threshold "physiological" dose... likely near/below 0.15
ppm you're poisoning the fish hosts more than accomplishing any positive
This strategy has worked really well for me on new introductions thus
far except for this Purple Tang. I have ParaGuard, PraziPro, and Ich
Attack available in my arsenal to use too that I had tried in my earlier
keeping days for new arrivals, however, from experience, I've had by far
the most success with Cupramine at a reduced dosage thus I've stuck with
it for new arrivals. Beyond this, my strategy for any new coral arrivals
is to use ReefDip for 30 minutes.
<Ah, good. I've used and caused to purchase hundreds of carboys of
Cupramine. Am a fan as well. Cheers, BobF>
Re: Purple Tang - Ich - Cupramine 6/10/16
A worthy summation re Cu use in aquatics:
Sick Tang question; env., likely Cu++ poisoning
Good day crew Brian here with a question... At our shop we have been
plagued with certain tang species coming down with this sickness. It
affects Tomini, Kole and Blue eye tangs only... All other fish present
normal with no symptoms.
<Acanthurids are far more susceptible; on some sort of sliding scale, than most
other fish families.... to environmental troubles, common pathogenic diseases>
It appears to only take place in one of our systems however that system
is regularly treated with formalin and occasional copper as it is our
new arrival quarantine system which is 325 gallons.
<.... environment then likely>
We have been attempting to identify the disease utilizing various books however
we have been unable to.
<.... need to sample, use a 'scope. See WWM Re>
The tangs color fades, they being to shake, dart around, stop eating, develop
dark circles, they do not scratch, no increase in respiratory rate.
What are your thoughts as we have tried copper,
<...? READ here:
and the linked files above... till you become aware>
Flagyl, formalin, fresh water dips, medicated foods. Again this only happens to
these three species of tang. All others are unaffected and healthy. The other
species includes over a dozen other tangs, Angels, wrasses, butterflies,
snapper, grouper, lions ( sorry for the non specific species list but it would
<When in doubt, search on WWM and read. Bob Fenner>
New Tang Trtmt. 6/4/15
I have incoming tonight 3 small tangs from a local wholesaler.
I would like to quarantine for the first time, but being these aren't exactly
gobies or.clownfishz I have a decision to make.
I have a spare 29 gallon tank, equipped with hob power filter, 600 gph power
head, and heater. I took media components, such as filter floss, sponge, and PVC
pipe that's been sitting in my fish on only tank sump for biological bacteria
for a few weeks
I can set tank up, input some media that could be my biological filtration.
Or I can skip bio filter, and do the tank transfer method every 48/ hours, not
letting ammonia build up.
<I'd use the media.>
Since they are ultimately going into my display tank at the end of it( which I
believe to be parasite free) I can use water from display tank, which also
allows me to do 20 percent water changes on my display every 2/days, instead of
just making new water only to go down the drain two days later.
<You may well have to check the water twice daily and change a good deal of it
I have the 29, I can transfer fish, into say an equivalent size rubber maid,
bleach and rinse 29, and switch back to 29 in 48/ hours.
I know that's a lot of work but that's what I have the means to do. The other
option is cycle the 29, and run copper, but I have a feeling a 29 with no live
rock or sand may not biologically hold the ammonia output.
Any suggestions for my case would be appreciated. Thanks
<I'd read on WWM re Tang Diseases... and summarily dip/bath them enroute (after
acclimating); in a pH adjusted freshwater bath... per the S.O.P. posted on WWM.
Tangs and Skin Troubles
After 17 years in the hobby I am for the first time ever using a
quarantine tank before adding animals to my newest tank build. I have
had a 2.5 inch regal tang
<Wow; small... >
and a 3.5 inch achilles tang in a 65 gallon QT for 2 weeks. The tank was
fully cycled and has plenty of hiding places/toys (all parameters
perfect for QT). They were healthy in all appearance upon arrival, but
after a week the regal began to show white spots ( can't say it was any
Ich I am familiar with but who knows and no pictures as they won't hold
still long enough for cell phone) on and around his head. Also along his
body on both sides appeared to be tiny bumps under the skin.
<Have to sample; look under a 'scope...>
There are minimal attempts at scratching. None of what I'm seeing is
anything I've experienced through these many years. I've never
experienced marine velvet, but there are no rapid breathing symptoms,
evenly speckled dust, or any goldish hue. This didn't help me feel good
about my decision to QT instead if ye ole tried and true natural rock
and cleaners, but now I am in it, I have to move forward along
this path. I decided to use Cupramine (in spite of the fact that I had
an achilles in there that appeared perfect) to see if whatever "it" was
would shed in a couple of days. The skin bumps disappeared, but whitish
"stuff" looking like tiny pieces of white skin (best description), again
both sides of the fish body.
Yesterday was one week into copper treatment, 4 days at the recommended
dose, both fish were still playing, swimming, and eating normally. The
achilles began to show a little tuft of white on his forehead. Today the
achilles has the tiny bumps under his skin on both sides of his body.
So... I'm going to venture a guess here and say that within the next
couple of days the bumps will disappear and whitish "skin" pieces will
appear on both sides of this fish also. Again there is minimal
scratching. Before the achilles showed signs, I was about to ditch the
copper regime and start an antibiotic. I am wondering if you've heard of
such symptoms and whether you suggest continuing with the Cupramine or
moving on to an antibiotic? Again these fish are enjoying life,
swimming, playing, and eating with minimal scratching.
Thank you so much for your time honored research and assistance, Kim
<... I'd be reading re the use of Quinine compounds now-a-years
rather than Copper. Antibiotic/s? For what? Of no use here. Bob Fenner>
I have had this scopes tang in hypo at 1.008 for the past six weeks.
<For what purpose/s? Am not a fan... have you read on WWM re Hyposalinity?>
He has been eating well and the water quality has been pretty stable. I have
tried to feed him Nori but he hasn't been that keen on it.
<... the treatment>
I have noticed a small growth on his snout and what I believe is evidence
of HLLE. Could you please confirm.
<Some apparent; again; due to the stress of isolation, exposure to low salt
I will begin with Selcon and I am also slowly lifting the salinity back to
normal with fresh salt water.
<Good steps in the right direction>
and the linked files above; as well as our bits on hypo. Bob Fenner>
The Stubborn Tang; not fdg. post Cu exposure
Hello crew! i have an interesting predicament, so I'm hoping you
will be able to help!
Here's the story: i have a 5'' yellow tang in my 90g DT (150g
tank, and he wont eat for me recently. I've had him since February
this year, and until about 2 weeks ago, he's been acting....off.
When i first got him he had some mild HLLE which with lots of seaweeds,
soaked in Selcon and Mysis and formula 2, he had a great recovery,
almost complete turn around of the HLLE. About 3 months ago the
tank was hit with Ich, and then promptly treated by moving all fish to a
QT and followed with copper treatment and a fallow tank for 7 weeks.
<The Cu exposure will very commonly affect tangs as you describe... make
them anosmotic, and worse, kill off necessary intestinal fauna... Need
to replenish... By adding a Tang species that does have such in its gut.
Or moving the Yellow Tang into a system w/ such "critters" living there>
After full recoveries and such.
all fish were returned and everything has been fine up until now.
I noticed the tang acting more lethargic than normal at lights on for a
few days to start, and him bumping into the rock work occasionally, so i
was worried his eyes were possibly blinded by the lights for some
reason, so i lowed the lighting levels and that didn't change it.
then a few days later i noticed faint red mark, mostly around his tail
and dorsal fin- at this point he was eating, but not as vigorously.
a few days later he stopped eating completely and as almost completely
receded into the cave network in my rocks. there was a period of about 5
days, a week ago that he seemed to have some problems staying upright
while not swimming, turning completely on 90 degrees on his 'side' and
once and a while to nearly 120 and then quickly righting him self - this
symptom has gone away recently.
now, almost 2 weeks since seeing him last eat, his HLLE is back with
almost full force, if not worse, and i cannot get him to eat anything,
even doused in garlic / Selcon. Im quite worried.
<You should be>
Param.s: 0amm/nitrite, 5-10 nitrate, 80 F, .028 salinity (a little high,
evaporation is...being difficult, slowly lowering to .026)
I would remove him to QT but I'm afraid moving him may do more harm then
good, and all the other tankmates are looking fine and dandy ( 3'' hippo
Tang, 3 teal Chromis, 1 blue damsel, 1 fire-fish, 2 peppermint shrimp,
and a serpent-star).
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
<Mmm, like Rabbits (lagomorphs), Termites... and many other examples,
Acanthuroids have live G.I. symbionts... that are too-easily killed off
w/ copper exposure... You need to put the fish in a situation where they
can become reinoculated... The Tang will "pick up" these from the
Re: The Stubborn Tang 7/4/2012
Hey Bob, just a quick follow up with your last email.
What do you suggest I do? Should I add another herbivorous tang to
the system to uh... 'Reintroduce' these critters or should I attempt the
daunting task of finding someone that can house him for a few weeks to
get him going again. (Pickings are slim in my area, my best bet would be
this one LFS near me- well kept larger tanks-, but the owner is a bit of
<Yes; one or t'other>
Thanks with all the help,
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Stubborn yellow tang follow-up 7/5/2012
Hey Bob, sorry to bother you...again, this is the last question I'm
<Not a bother>
What species of tang do you think would be a good choice for the job at
<Mmm. Do read here:
scroll down to the section on Tang Selection/Stocking>
The reason I ask is, I would assume in a best case scenario another
yellow tang would be the best for replenishing these 'critters' but I
don't want a turf war in my tank by adding a second yellow.
Any thoughts? Also, would adding water from a system with
herbivorous tangs be sufficient to reintroduce the needed critters?
<Ohh, now I recall... yes to adding not water, but mulm... fecal
material... you can gravel vacuum from the one tank, place in the needed
Thanks a million,
<As many welcomes. BobF>
Kole Tang Health Problem 12/5/11
I thought that adding a reference link would help save on email
Anyways, this is the video I took of the tang. (took big to
attach via email - link provided)
... and here are some images attached.
I have a Kole tang (obviously) and a bicolor blenny in QT. If
it's wet - I quarantine it. Shortly after being introduced to
quarantine, the tang began to scratch. No surprise. As always, I
use Cupramine at .5 mg/l concentration.
<Mmm, high, and hard on tangs, Acanthuroids>
While I was slowly getting the tank to the right level, I noticed
what appeared to be salt on the tang - only a couple dots, so my
first thought was Ich had taken hold before the copper was set
correctly. However, after a few days I noticed what appeared to
be very thin, small clear pieces on the fish. My next thought was
flukes, but I can't say for sure if it was that or not as I
am not experienced in seeing/dealing with flukes.
<Easy to do w/ a 'scope and slime scraping>
So I added PraziPro to the QT. Shortly thereafter the tang
started thrashing and breathing hard - and I notice 2 clear
"things" slowly peel off the top portion of it's
lateral line. It has been doing better. So I guess my question
What is the issue with the tang?
<Mmm,, appears to be more than one... external parasites of
some sort... likely Protozoan and Trematodes>
Can you tell if it is flukes or Ich - and what is the spot on
<No... can't be done w/o in-place (being there)
You cannot see it in the pictures - but there is a clear
"salt" looking spot on its ride side (in person).
<This is highly chemical damage from the copper exposure... I
advocate using quinine (see WWM) instead on this group, actually
most fishes nowayears>
<Am doing so. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Acanthurus coeruleus with skin issues?
Greetings to all at WWM!
I've been treating my FOWLR display tank with Chloroquine
phosphate since April 30th for my quinine resistant strain of C.
irritans. The fishes have all appeared to tolerate this
medication very well and no more Ich after one
week of Chloroquine.
I've continued this treatment as I learned from Dr. Fishman
that this medication can be dosed continuously in the tank as a
preventative for further reinfection.
<Mmm, I would not do this... with CP or other med.>
My question is in regards to the Atlantic Blue tang, who shows
these "blotches" only at certain times when his skin
turns a darker color.
<Just "stress"... your pic shows a very nice
They are not raised or fuzzy. Behaviorally, he is a little more
isolative, and appetite has been decreased. One of his eyes had
some cloudiness but this seems to come and go.
I am wondering if this is due to Chloroquine sensitivity, or is
this a secondary infection.
<Much more the former likely>
My tank parameters: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, pH 8.2. He
is the only fish showing this.
Thank you for your time and providing this wonderful site to
educate and enlighten!!!
<Thank you for sharing! BobF>
Re: Acanthurus coeruleus with skin issues? and CP
Thanks for your reply!
I'm sure you don't remember as you get thousands of
e-mails, but you have a "baby" picture of him when he
was the size of a silver dollar - when I sent a picture of him
with "black dots" where the Ich fell of from the
quinine sulfate treatment! He has grown to be four inches big
now, bigger than my Powder Blue tang.
I don't think he would still be with me if it was not for
your guidance and your web site!
Thank You Thank You Thank You!
PS: The Chloroquine phosphate treatment will end in six weeks as
I was wanting to make sure that I have three months with no signs
of C. irritans before stopping. I believe that I got the quinine
resistant strain by stopping too soon.
<I think it (the Crypt) is long gone. Cheers, BobF>
Re: Acanthurus coeruleus with skin issues?
Sorry to go on and on... BUT
How do you recommend I "stop" the treatment?
<Just stop adding the material>
1. Just start routine weekly water changes of 15-20%
2. Turn on the skimmer
3. Add carbon
4. All of the above
5. Do nothing, the Chloroquine will "self destruct"
after five seconds...
<Oh! It already has if you haven't been re-adding it.
Re: Acanthurus coeruleus with skin issues?
Just for future reference...
I know that we dose Chloroquine at 40 mg per gallon. I've
read that you "re dose" every 7-10 days, but as I was
waiting for my treatment, I've done some additional reading
and learned that Chloroquine "is very stable in
and I've spoken with Dr. Fishman regarding this and he shared
that you don't have to re dose. At one point, I had 22.8
grams total in my 190 gallons of water which is three times the
normal treatment dose and that was when all
my fishes appetite decreased. So...I guess in a round about way,
if I ever need to treat the fishes for crypt, how would I dose
the Chloroquine to begin with, would I re dose and if so, how
often, and for how long?
Thanks a Million!
<Thank you for this valuable input. Am going to be
"splitting up" the Quinine cpd. FAQs today likely.
TWA Tang hlth. w/ copper... using WWM 8/17/08 Hello, I
need your help, I have a small Atlantic blue tang that's breathing
very fast. <Acanthurus coeruleus... not easily kept as individuals,
in small hobbyist settings...> I had it for about 2 months now. I
just recently tried treating it with copper <...> thinking it has
Ich in it gills. but stopped the treatment after 3 days because the
tang was looking really bad. Look like the tang was stoned laying on
it's side. It was really slow and sluggish. <... had you
read> I was concerned about the tang getting too much copper in
it's system. After I stopped the copper the tang now won't eat
but before the treatment he was eating really good. what do you thing I
can do. I do 2 gallon water change every day. Any suggestions? Thanks
JOE <For you to start reading... on WWM re Copper use and Tangs at
least... Do I have to do what you should have already? Start here...
and soon: http://wetwebmedia.com/crypttangs.htm and the linked files
above... Bob Fenner...>...>...>
Distressed Tomini Tang... yes,
exposure to Malachite, Formalin 12/7/07 I appreciate the
time. I will try to keep as short as possible. I've had a Tomini
Tang that I got as a birthday gift 3 weeks ago. The first 2.5 weeks
went great, he was eating up everything in site. In the last couple
days, he has started to show some white spots on his fins and now on
his body. <... a pic?> I gave him a Furan-2 bath plus QuICK Cure
(LFS recommended) for about 2 hours <! I hope not too
concentrated... the "Cure" is toxic, very> with water from
the tank. I put him back in and after a few hours he is looking worse.
<Formalin burned little doubt> I also did a water change just in
case, but not sure what to do next. He is breathing fine, but his
appetite is nowhere what it once was. <Poisoned...> I'm not
sure if this is a parasite, Cryptocaryon or protozoan? <Me
neither... again, an image... Please try to put yourself in my/our
place... this is a bad guessing game> His mouth also is white (not
sure what that could be from). <Some specimens just are... others
from rubbing in bags, tanks...> There is no scratching at all, so
can I cancel out ick? <... how would I be able to tell?> All
other tank mates look fine. <This is a good sign... Likely nothing
contagious...> Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks, Neil
<Careful observation... only at this point. Please show this note to
whoever advised the hours long Malachite Green/formalin exposure...
NOT! Bob Fenner>
Copper Treatment...Tangs And Other
Sensitive Fish 6/21/06 I'm about to start treating my
purple tang, Firefish goby, royal Gramma, and neon goby with copper to
rid my tank of Ich once and for all. The cleaner shrimp and
garlic helped, but the Ich would always reemerge after a few days. I
have been reading for WWM for the last 2 hours about copper treatment
to make sure I do it right. From my understanding measuring
the amount of copper in the water is essential, especially when dealing
with tangs and other scale-less fish/es. <Yes> I also read that
many people seem to have trouble reading levels of chelated copper and
that test kits are specific to either chelated or ionic
copper. I have a bottle of CopperSafe (chelated) and a
bottle of SeaCure (ionic). Which would you recommend I
use? I also have a Salifert copper test kit on the way in
the mail. <To measure the concentration of Copper Safe, a chelated
or total copper test kit is required. All readings should be
based on the total copper or chelated copper results and not the free
copper results. The Salifert Test Kit measures dissolved or weakly
chelated copper. Strongly chelated copper will measure very
low or not at all with the Salifert Kit. I believe the
Copper Safe is strongly chelated. Bob, do you agree?>
<<Is, do. RMF>> Do you know which (if either) type of these
two copper medications would the Salifert test measure more accurately?
<The Sea Cure would be my choice.> Can I rely on this test kit?
<Yes, a very accurate kit.> After reading several letters, it
seems like many people treat the bare hospital tank as directed on the
bottle but then get strange results when measuring with a test kit.
<I'm guessing the proper kit isn't being used for the type
copper they are using.> Also, I'm still confused as to the
amount (ppm) and duration of treatment for tangs and other sensitive
fish. 0.15-0.25 ppm of ionic or 1.5-2.0
ppm of chelated seems the standard, tangs and Firefish too?? <I
would monitor the copper level very close and maintain at 1.5ppm with
these types of fish.> Twenty-one consecutive days is what most
people seem to recommend. Then again I also read that Bob
stated he would not treat a tang for this long and drop treatment to 14
days instead. <Bob, is this dated info, or can tangs be treated at
1.5ppm for 21 days safely?> <<Better to limit to minimum dose,
exposure time. RMF>> Thank you in advance <You're
welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Powder Blue - QT Tank Setup Hi Crew, <Hello, MikeB
here.> Currently I am running a 90 gallon reef ready tank, about 80+
lbs. of live rock, 80lbs live sand. This tank has been setup for about
a year. Currently, I have about 14 random soft and hard corals, 1
Orange Tail Damsel, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, a Powder Blue (4.5 inches),
Serpent Star and plenty of snails and hermit crabs. The corals and the
Damsel are doing great! I added my Powder Blue about two weeks ago.
When I purchased him he was skinny (I could see his spine through his
sides) but active. Of course within a couple of days he began to show
signs of Ich. I fed him a variety of veggie flakes, dried seaweed, and
have added Kent's garlic and some vitamins to his Formula 1 food
which has seemed to help keep it under control. Some days are better
than others, one day almost no signs, then the next covered in tiny
white dots and bumps. A couple of times he has even shown vertical
white stripes on his sides that only last for a few seconds. He is
super active and eats like crazy, I am hoping that I can get him to
full health. He shows some, but limited interest in the Cleaner Shrimp.
My Damsel so far shows no signs at all that he is getting sick. After
much reading of your FAQ's I have decided to setup a quarantine
tank (better late then never I guess). Salinity 1.025 pH - 8.2 Ammonia,
Nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 15 Temp - 82 Calcium - 460ish Alkalinity - 8 (I
am buffering to pick it up a little) Phosphates - Almost 0 I use the
40g trash can method for preparing new water with my RO filter. I am
planning on treating them with copper. Here are my questions/plans for
setting up the QT tank: - Besides the Damsel and Tang, do I need to
take anything else out of my main tank? <No, the fish should be the
only ones treated.> - What tank size would you recommend for these
two fish? Would 20g be too small for the Tang to be in for a month?
<For a month and ONLY a month a 20 gal. would suffice for a
quarantine tank for the two fish.> - I have read that if I have a
sponge soak in my main tanks sump to get it full of the necessary
organisms I can then use this as filtration in my QT. Does this just
rest at the bottom of my QT tank? <If you have a filter you can
throw the sponge in that will work better, if not, the tank will
work.> - Do I also need another type of biological filter? <Yes,
you need some sort of filter with NO carbon or chemical
filtration....It will remove the medication you are trying to use.>
- If I use water and a presoaked sponge from my main tank for the
initial QT setup and future water changes do I still need to cycle my
QT? <No, that is the beauty of this set up.> - The room
that they will be in has no windows (basement) so I was going to get a
small light strip to give them some light. I don't need anything
specific, do I? <A glass lid so the light doesn't fall into the
water.> - If needed I need to find a sufficient external filter, any
suggestions? <A Whisper power filter is good for quarantine tanks in
my opinion. No protein skimmers are needed.> - As long as I am doing
frequent water changes do I have to run a skimmer? <See above.> -
By using water from my existing (sick) tank for water changes am I
going to be continually infecting my QT tank with Ich? <No, the Ich
reproduces in the gravel and if you have a UV sterilizer or protein
skimmer on the display tank the Ich will be killed off.> - Small
pump with air stone. - PVC pipe for cover. <Salt may effect the
lighting. Elevate the lighting> - Heater and thermometer. - Once the
signs of Ich are gone, 3-4 weeks in this tank - Small water changes, 3
times per week <Good> - Frequent water testing - Besides sifting
the sand during water changes in the main tank (and using my new QT
tank for new additions), any other tasks that will help remove the Ich
while my fish are in quarantine? <A UV if you have one. If not, time
will do the job.> I know this is a lot of questions, but I really
want to get this setup right the first time. Thanks for your help my
friend(s).. Matt <No problem on the questions. That is what we are
here for. Good Luck. MikeB.>
Naso With Balance Problems >Dear Crew, >>Hello
Allyson. You have Marina today, with my greatest apologies,
I've just received your message in my inbox today and I sincerely
hope it's not too late. >I love my Naso like a
child. We've had him a few years and we bought him when
he was approximately 6 inches long. We were
stupid. It's too big a fish even for our 125 gallon
tank. He belongs in the reef. Our water
parameters have been stable for several years but tonight I'll
check them again. He's just looking out of
sorts. He frequently has a little ick in the mornings and
the cleaner shrimps jump on him and it falls off by the end of the
day. He's a fussy eater and will only eat Tetra marine
flakes and Caulerpa. He eats these like a pig and the little
guy is fat as a house. He still eats OK. There
was a period a week ago when we skipped a meal for him (were away for 1
meal-we feed him a lot twice each day by hand). The
temperature dropped 3 degrees. Our refugium where we raise
Caulerpa and other macroalgae smelled bad and we changed most of the
water. It smells fine now. I think the Caulerpa
looked a bit unstable at the time but it's not sexual.
>>If in doubt, prune it back heavily, being CERTAIN to remove by
the full holdfasts, not just breaking off 'leaves'. >During
that time, for several days, the fish's yellow face turned dark and
he did not swim as actively. He barely ate. We
raised the temp to 80 and his face got yellower and he swims and eats
more. What is most disturbing is that since that time I see
that he has trouble keeping himself upright
slightly. It's very slight but he'll swim sideways
at times and I see he has his alerting colors on (he gets blotches when
he's frightened). >>It seems you're taking
the best care of him you can, but I believe he's simply outgrown
the system and is displaying the stress (you've made no mention of
his current dimensions). This could explain the little bit
of Ich, the stress coloration, and possibly the 'balance'
issues (swim bladder, possibly? Fish have no inner
ear). He's definitely not growing old, these animals can
live 20 years easily. >He just seems a little
clumsier. He doesn't swim as fast or as agilely
lately. I'm trying to see if it's worsening but
it's inconsistent. He doesn't have any skin lesions
and the ick is very slight and barely and occasionally
visible. I've tried hospital tanks with him but the
conditions are so unstable in such a small tank, he does worse so
I've given up trying to treat the ick. >>Yes, also, treating
him a hospital tank will do no good whatsoever if there are still other
vertebrates in the system upon which the parasite can find a
host. The only way for hospitalization to be effective is
for the main display to go fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks, though this
often proves not to be long enough. >I've done searches here and
on reef central and I have not seen balance problems listed
much. The few times it was with new fish and they died soon
after developing it. I'm hoping he gets better and it
was just a minor trauma/infection. >>You've
listed no water parameters other than the temperature drop (amount), so
I can't really offer much other than a guess and a mantra - when in
doubt, do a water change. This won't help him at all if
the problem is simply that he's outgrown this system, but it will
if, in spite of the presence of the 'fuge, there is a buildup of
nitrate or other chemicals we cannot measure without a full laboratory
at our disposal. Even then, you might want to have an idea
of what you're testing for. You haven't mentioned
how big the fish is now, but Nasos grow rather
large. Water changes on a large scale will not hurt, and can
both replenish lost compounds as well as remove buildups of others.
>We've also been administering Joes Juice to kill Majano so I
wonder if that has something neurotoxic. >>Be VERY
careful with that stuff! From what I understand they do not
list any ingredients (proprietary?), and I've read many posts on
reefs.org of folks losing their shrimps after using Joe's
Juice. I have no idea of it has any neurological effect,
this is such a new product and few are regulated in any
manner. If you were my customer I wouldn't have sold you
this product, and I would now suggest you stop using it altogether.
>Bottom line, what could cause this? A vitamin deficiency
(he won't eat garlic, Selcon, or any other flake or food than that
Tetra marine stuff)? >>Garlic won't provide
vitamins or nutrition to fish (think about it, how often do fish get
their nutrition from garlic in the wild?), but it has been proven to
have a slight to moderate antibiotic effect. The food he
will accept can be soaked in Selcon prior to feeding, but you MUST be
persistent. Also, Nasos do like some meaty foods, have you
offered him the irresistible krill? Variety, especially with
such a fish, is KEY. He is behaving like a pet poodle, and
you'll have to stand your ground when it comes to sampling
different foodstuffs. These fish can easily go several days
without feeding - if he gets hungry enough, he WILL try it (assuming
he's not actually ill, which I don't believe is the case at
this point). >A transient parasitic infection (maybe the ick got in
his balance system)? >>Doubtful, I've not read of
such mild infestations affecting an animal's balance. If
this were a problem you'd see flashing and rapid gilling, not just
balance problems. >What scares me is that this might be a buildup in
the Caulerpa toxins. >>Possibly, but again, I do
doubt this. I didn't have a problem feeding C. taxifolia
to my Z. flavescens, Z. scopas, or other tangs for several years. >I
give him a little bit each day as a treat. He loves
it. (Won't eat any kind of Nori, broccoli, spinach,
Sprung's sea veggies, lettuce, spinach, bok choy etc. for
greens). >>Again, he will if he's hungry enough,
and again, offer him some meaty foods. >I decided to do this because
this little guy has so few pleasures in our small tank, at least he
should have that. What was the toxin in Caulerpa so I can
read about it? >>This I cannot answer, try searching Anthony
Calfo's writings (this is off the top of my head), assuming a
general Google turns up nothing. >Thanks, Allyson >>You're
welcome, Allyson. At this point, my honest assessment is
that the fish is demonstrating end result of too small a
system. I'm curious as to whether or not this animal has
grown the tail 'streamers' for which they're noted, if not,
this, along with the other symptoms you mention lead me to this initial
Naso With Balance Problems - Happy Happy Joy Joy! >Dear
Crew, >>Hello Allyson. >Oh happy day! My fish is
slowly recovering with just good conditions!!! >>As
nature intended. >We raised the temp 3 degrees because we saw that
was the major change associated with his poor
health. Immediately he looked happier (I think I mentioned
this before). >>Yes, you did. >Last night he
greeted me at the door like he used to. His swimming is
slowly more agile. He continues to eat like a pig and is as
fat as a house. >>This is very good news, and
remember my mantra! When in Doubt, Do a Water Change!
>Untergasser's chart (a book on fish disease) on swim bladder
has in his chart on swim bladder a few differentials. At
first all I saw was autopsy and I freaked. >>Yeah,
well, there's only one way to get a postmortem. >Now that I look
at it more closely, the most likely diagnosis, given the outcome, is
that wall of the air bladder was hardened and inflamed (treated by
raising the water temp by 3 to 5 degrees for 5 days). Alternative
diagnoses are pretty grim. >>For a fish who's been in
captivity for several years, yes, this is true. >At this
point, there are several references to autopsies. The air bladder
filled with purulent, bacteria-filled fluid-there are a few other
presentations related to bacteria (refers to bacteria treatment chart).
>>And treatment would absolutely require use of a hospital
system. This *can* be done, but with a large fish it is not
an inexpensive proposition. >Cysts are in the wall of the air
bladder. Inclusions in the wall of the air bladder (no treatment
possible). Protozoans are in the kidney and bloodstream. I discussed
more details on Reefcentral, including a summary of Untergasser's
bacterial treatment mash. >>Yes, I've just read
it. Know this, you can go ahead and hypo the animal for Ich,
but as I said before, if you don't remove ALL vertebrate life, the
Ich will not be gone from that system. It's far better
at this point to provide best conditions and nutrition. Know
also that garlic is only proved effective as a mild antibiotic,
empirical evidence claims appetite stimulation. My assertion
is that if a fish is given proper quarters, best water quality and
nutrition, nature shall do what she does best and the animal(s) will
<please hyperlink!> Thanks for your thoughtful
response. Please spread the word about this rare
phenomenon. Allyson >>Through you, we
shall! Thanks for the follow-up, too, Allyson. I
felt terrible thinking that your message had been sitting and it might
have been too late. I am VERY pleased that your pet is back
on the road to recovery and a long life. Marina
Purple Tang Purple Tang started showing few spots of Ich,
feed garlic soaked food and gave a FWD with Meth blue, spots
disappeared overnight. It came back hard after about a week, still
feeding garlic and giving 10-15 min FWD every couple of days but no
real improvement. Fish seems okay with the dips, just getting harder to
catch. Questions, how often can FWD's be given and should I expect
the spots to drop off after the dip? At the start, spots would be gone
after the dip but back by morning, now they don't seem to be
dropping off at all. <FWD's are very stressful to all salt fish
not to mention the stress of catching it daily. Many of the spots
should drop off. However, this fish is getting weaker with each dip and
that's making it more susceptible to Ich infestation. My friend, do
you have a quarantine tank? It would really come in handy. You could
administer copper and get rid of the dips. If this interests you,
please read about disease treatment at Wetwebmedia.com There is lots of
information archived at this site...including directions for FWD's
and a copper treatment. Please don't administer copper in your main
tank> Thanks Mark <You're welcome. I'm just sorry that
your having this problem...David Dowless>
- What to do... Watching someone's tank - <Greetings,
JasonC here...> Help i am watching a tank and the yellow tang has
black sand like specks on the body and now one white dot on the dorsal
fin. There is a puffer and a lion fish in the tank 110
gallons - what do i do? <Well... depends on how comfortable you are
with catching fish. I'm sure you're just trying to help out
here, but ideally you would catch that fish and give it a freshwater
dip. If you don't feel comfortable with that, perhaps check in with
one of the local fish stores and see if they have someone working there
that might do this service for a fee, or perhaps recommend someone. If
you feel up to the task of the freshwater dip, there are a few things
you need to do, so please read up here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
At the very least, perhaps contact the person you are fish-sitting for
and let them know your intentions.> Laura Kenny <Good luck, and
cheers, J -- >
- Baths for Tang - Hi JasonC, <Hello.> i looked and am
very confused - i can't find an article on the black spot bath
<The article is on freshwater baths in general, there is not a
specific bath for this parasitic problem. The change in specific
gravity should kill the parasite.> - could you let me know do i do a
fresh water dip of a combination of fresh and the water that she is in
<Just with freshwater, with the pH and temperature matched to those
of the tank the tang is in now.> - HELP <If you don't feel
comfortable doing this, don't do it. Let it wait until the owner of
the tank returns.> - also are the lion fish and puffer safe?
<From this particular parasite, yes.> Thanks for the help so far
<Cheers, J -- >
- Freshwater Dips - Hi JasonC <Hello> Its Laura again
the fish babysitter - i feel comfortable with the bath - i can't
find an article that tells me the time limit - just if it is a longer
one you need to add a bubbler to the bath. <To be effective, a bath
needs to be at least five minutes. No matter what, you should put a
bubbler in the bath to keep the water aerated.> But in the process
not only does the tang have the black spots, but now it appears to have
a hair cotton ball like - toward the back end of him, but the bony
structures, does this mean it is fungal, and if it is - will the bath
still help her? <The bath probably won't do much to a fungal
problem, but what you describe sounds more like Lymphocystis, which
usually goes away on its own.> Thanks so far for all the great
advise - i don't know what i would do without the quick responses.
Laura <Cheers, J -- >
Re: purple tang questions Received a 5" purple
tang and neon goby five days ago did the FWD (temp/ph matched
with Meth blue) and that was sure stressful and least for me.
<Been there, done that...I know how you feel!> First the
tang goes out of the net, jumps about a foot in the air (landing
back in the bucket) then lays upside down, nose first with all
its fin held rigid. Could see the gill plates moving so left in
for 5 minutes. <Mayday! Mayday! Your fish was under severe
stress. In the future if a fish behaves this way, skip the dip.
Some fish do great with FWD others not so well. Each fish is an
individual. Use a quarantine tank instead> Then when I placed
in the tank, it just laid on its side at the surface, after about
15 seconds, I poked it a couple of times, before it swan to the
bottom of the tank. Anyway my questions, small white dot on lower
part of eye. Looks more circular than in picture, thought it
might be sand like the other dots that had me going but this is
staying, Ich? <Personally, I never freak out about one spot of
anything. Keep the water temp very stable, and the water quality
high. Let's don't call it Ich yet> Second question,
just before the tang voided noticed there was white 2"
thread like streamer, could this be an internal parasite?
<Could be but I don't think I would worry. A fish voiding
during a FWD is a certain sign of severe stress. Keep the tank
temp very stable and the water quality high...and leave this guy
alone for now... unless something obvious crops up> Had some
long strands of hair algae that the tang been cleaning up. <
If the poor fellow is eating that's definitely a good sign. I
am inclined to think that you scared this guy literally almost to
death and he needs time to recuperate. If you have a quarantine
tank I would move him there just so he could relax and begin to
feel at home. If you don't have a QT consider setting one up
before your next fish purchase. For now, leave this fish
alone...but watch closely> Thanks and Merry Christmas Mark
<Happy holidays to you and yours! David Dowless>
Questionable Behavior Bob, <normally queries about
"questionable behavior" go to Bob... followed by a summons
for indecent public exposure, but I'll answer in his stead
today...Ha!> I have a 72 gallon tank with an aqua clear pro 150
wet/dry filter. It is a fish only tank and I have about 30 to 40 pounds
of live rock in it as well. I cycled the tank with some starter fish
and now have 2 Clarkii's and a Blue Devil Damsel. Those fish have
been fine for a few months now. In the past 2 weeks I added a Blue Tang
and Yellow Tang. I have noticed some unusual behavior by these 2 new
fish. They seem to go through periods of intense shaking and sometimes
look as if they are scraping up against my live rock to scratch and
itch. <tangs are very prone to parasitic infections. It is
crucial for these more than most any other fish that you quarantine
them at home for a minimum of 4 weeks. Do look into QT protocol.. you
will need it for any new fish in the future and possibly some of the
current ones very soon> I see no white spots on them to indicate
disease and their colors are wonderful and they are eating quite well.
Is this normal behavior or are they in the infant stages of some form
of aquarium itch or other disease? <indeed, it may very well
be the onset of a parasitic disease (they commonly start in the gills
before you see spots> Please advise if this is a serious situation
on how I can fix this before I lose the fish. <please do explore the
archives of Wet Web Media for protocol on Quarantine tanks and
medication. Your tangs will need to be separated to a bare bottomed QT
tank (please NEVER medicate a main display). Begin here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm and explore the
pertinent sections on disease (Ich, Oodinium, etc) and do a search on
the Google engine for WWM for specific topics if you like. Do follow up
if you need more advice> I look forward to hearing from you.
Respectfully, Mike Rysavy <with kind regards, Anthony Calfo>
Re: Naso Tang with cloudy eyes (marine antibiotic use) Thank
you for the info. This is essentially what I have been advising so
I'll stick to it. <Me too... have never experienced definitive
proof of antibiotic benefits on a consistent basis... and recent works
(e.g. Ed Noga, and I spoke w/ him re at MACNA XIII re)... other than
expensive broodstock, and mainly trauma (as in spawning) incidents,
direct injection... am of the opinion that such compounds mainly do
"good" by modifying water chemistry (e.g. tetracycline
hydrochloride lowering pH), perhaps reducing TBC's (total bacteria
counts)...> For whatever reason some customers seem to go on the
defensive at the suggestion that they have water quality issues and are
intent on buying something that will magically fix their problems.
<Bingo! Part of the/our "western ethic"... trained by
Madison Ave. to "buy something"... perhaps we can, should
sell "sugar pills"... oh, Weiss has beat us to the
punch...> The typical response is "I know my water is fine
because it's perfectly clear" <To which I typically respond
"so is vinegar"> or the best one yet "I know it's
not my water because I only use Ozarka and it's the best". Ah
well, sometimes there isn't much you can say. <Be yourself,
state what you believe, know, simply. Ask questions like "what if
you used distilled water" or only drank such yourself... ways to
introduce, induce more open-mindedness. Reciprocally, maybe you're
ready, in need of a holiday? Bob Fenner> Thanks again, Richard
Compatibility? Mr. Fenner, <<JasonC
here, filling in while Bob is out diving.>> I have been reading a
lot on your site about Tangs and good ones vs. bad. We lost all our
fish recently except our large Hippo. He seems to be doing great. Eats
a lot, isn't really scratching anymore and only bugs the cleaner
shrimps occasionally. Our stock all died from Velvet mixed with some
very odd looking shrimp like bugs on them (they came off during FW
dip). My question is how long do we need to wait before adding any new
fish( we will not be quarantining, but will follow your dipping
directions and maybe put fish in a 5 gallon medicated bucket for a few
hours to make sure no parasites get in tank.) <<I would
wait from two weeks to a month, just to make sure the coast is
clear.>> We live in a one bedroom apartment right now and
literally have NO room for quarantine tank. Let alone our 50 gal. What
are the best fish to get to befriend our lonely Hippo Tang?
<<How about a neon goby? Would help keep the hippo
clean...>> We want a pair of Perculas (true) and an
achilles tang, but your site says these are one of the bad tangs. Is
there a tang better suited for our Hippo? <<I would think that
two tangs of any type wouldn't work well in your
tank.>> And how bad is the achilles? <<Bad
enough to kill other fish it doesn't like.>> We are in
the process of buying a house and will be upgrading to a 100 gal when
we move. But in the meantime how many fish can go in our 50 gal and
again, which are best for our lonely fellow? When can we get these new
fish? <<If the move is in the near future, I would implore
you to wait until you can build a quarantine system and then start
working with some of these more difficult and touchy fish. Quarantine
is so, so, so important, I can't really endorse not using it... it
just makes such a different that short of two weeks in a bucket,
you're not going to be able to approximate it. Dips will help, but
you could as easily have your whole set of problems back without a more
strict quarantine.>> Thanks again for all your help!!!!
<<You are welcome. Cheers, J -- >>
Hello again! you've helped me before (Tang
Health) Hello again Robert You've helped me with my annularis
angel not long ago! He's doing excellent! What personality on that
fish! <Ah, good to hear of your success> I need some advice on a
new critter! We just got this new guy a week and one day ago. We
acclimated him to our 10 gal q tank via drip feed. I noticed
unfortunately not till I put him in the tank that he has one Black dot
on his back fin, which I have been told could be black ick or worm. The
water parameters are good. I started a hyposalinity treatment the next
day. and over a week dropped salinity from 1.020 to a 1.010. using this
method http://www.wyx.com/iheo/tank/hyposalinity.htm <Am familiar
with this protocol> He has now stopped eating for the past 2 days.
He was chowing down on Mysis shrimp, prime reef, brine shrimp, flake
food, and Seaweed selects. But now he nips spits and swims away! Do
these fish have fasting periods? <May be the low
salinity...> Is this normal behavior. He also seems to gently glance
the surface of his shell in the tank. Not really like that of an itch
from a parasite. Is that normal? <Yes, to some extent> He
swims around and shows some interest in things. Not really stressed I
don't think. I have pics but don't really know if this will
help. I've circled the black dot but still maybe to hard to see.
http://logos-and-graphics.com/tang/ <Yes. Good pix. A nice
Acanthurus pyroferus... apparently in good health. If it were mine
I'd return it to near seawater specific gravity and return it to
your main/display tank... Don't worry about the "black
dot". Bob Fenner> Thanks for any info, JET
Multiple Tangs I have a 55 gallon tank with
a wet dry system. My favorite fish are Tangs. I have had good luck with
my aquariums until I have more than one tang in the tank. This last
time I had a Kole, Powder Brown and Yellow tang. I then had a bad case
of Ich which destroyed all but 4 of my fish. I borrowed a high powered
UV light and treated with Kent Marine RXP. <A Scam> My Yellow tang is still
alive but has rust color markings and frayed fins and tail. Will he be
alright and how can I keep a healthy tank with multiple Tangs. I keep a
supply of kelps and algae in there for them. I guess I just have to go
to Angels or Butterfly fish. Thanks for your answer and your
Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available
by Robert (Bob) Fenner