FAQs about Banggai Cardinalfish Reproduction

FAQs about Banggai Cardinalfish Reproduction

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklo...ini_020799.html http://www.breedersregistry.org/Art...rini/marini.htm http://www.reefs.org/library/article/f_marini.html

Advice Please. Banggai repro. 1/13/16
Hi Guys!
First of all thanks for all the great advice! It's been years since i contacted you guys. Started breeding/raising Cichlids and now Banggai Cardinal Fish, all was going really well with my batch's. Last batch was more than double of all the rest which was 35 fry, every few days i started loosing some and now down to 6! I have been feeding them Fresh Hatched
Artemia (Brine Shrimp Eggs) as always and don't understand why???
<Mmm; well; Banggai's do typically die off as young as yours have... for what "reasons"? Lack of nutrition/competition for food most likely the largest influence. There are better foods; pelleted and frozen/defrosted.>
Can you guys please let me know why this is happening?
<Please search/read on WWM re the species; reproduction archives. Bob Fenner>
Much Appreciated!
Thanks
G
Re: Advice Please; Banggai repro. 1/17/16
Thanks again Bob!
<Welcome Ghulam>

Banggai question 8/9/14
Hi there,
<Howdy>
I have a pair of Banggai Cardinal fish who, unbeknownst to me, were expecting this week - I found out when my aquarium maintenance guy was here cleaning the tank yesterday. At least some were released last night - I have now separated three and one remains in the spines of the long spine sea urchin who is hiding behind the rocks.
<What they do>
I have set up the brine shrimp hatchery and am hoping to keep these little guys alive. But I figured that perhaps the male hadn't finished releasing them, since there only seemed to be four (that were released in the early evening so I could monitor activity) and today he started some odd behaviour - poking down into the corners of the tank, and seemingly heaving as one does before vomiting. This went on for an hour, but he did not release any more. Then, he just went swam under the rocks and.... died!......and I found him tucked slightly under a rock, with the little hermit crabs and snails crawling on him. I don't know if my pistol shrimp may have shot him! I moved him to another tank, to see if he could recover
and/or release more fry. I was able to open his mouth, but could see nothing inside. Could you tell me why he may have died right after brooding and why this batch may have been so small?
<Perhaps stress alone; maybe the alpheid as you state>
(other than having been eaten by the other fish perhaps). And now, will my female die without her partner?
<Not necessarily; no>
(I mean, really, I know we are resilient creatures, but are they?
<When of size and established in a suitable setting; yes>
These two have always been together, since they were given to me as a mature pair two years ago from another tank that was being taken down).
Thanks!
Marlene
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Baby Banggai Cardinal & Clowns; Artemia poss. 4/10/12
Hello,
We have become accidental fish breeders. We have been doing ok for the most part. Our first batch of babies was discovered 12/1/2013. There were 11. We put them in a separate nursery until they started eating frozen food. We only lost one during that transition. All along some of them would swim or kind of bounce at a 45° angle instead of swimming straight. Now there are two left that do that. One actually got beat up so I moved him back to the nursery with our second batch of babies. I did not think he would make it, but its been a month and he is healed up. However, he now bounces vertically. Pretty much all the time. The other guy in with the bigger tank is still at 45°. I was resolved to thinking they were my special needs fish as everything seems normal with both of them.
<Neurological?... perhaps poor development (lack of essential nutrient/s), foods/feeding related>
Today I bought 2 baby clowns. LFS said they were about 8 weeks and 5 weeks. I fell in love with them and figured I'm already hatching brine for my babies, why not? They swam normally at the store. They swam normally when I got them in the nursery. They swam normally when eating and seem to get along just fine with the baby cardinals. But before bed we noticed the little guy was swimming more vertically.
<Does happen; and very likely related to Artemia being used... shells, gas inside the fish... Switch foods; now>
Not exactly like the cardinal but its making me worry. The other babies are all swimming normally. My husband said that brine eggs and shells can constipate fish.
<This is so>
Would that make them swim weird? Could they live for a month constipated? What would make them swim at a 45° angle?
<Yes, yes, and yes>
What else should I be looking for? Any answers or guidance you can give is greatly appreciated!
Heather
Sent from my NOOK
<You may want to search, read on WWM re the use of Epsom Salt (MgSO4)... Otherwise; discontinue the use of Artemia.
Bob Fenner>

Baby Banggai Cardinalfish 11/2/12
About a week ago I was checking out my sump for my pod population and noticed two very small triangle looking things in the return section. I had always wondered if the two Banggais I had in my tank were a pair, because they acted weird ( one would shake when the other came close) around each other, Well, my wondering was answered. The two triangle things were baby Bangaiis.
<Ahh, congrats>
I fished them out of there and they are in their own 10 gallon tank, so they can grow. My question is, #1.to what size do they need to be to be transferred into the larger system?
<For themselves, a good 3/4" overall length or more... Many die when handled when young. For other tankmates, depends on their respective size and inclination to harass or consume the Banggais>
#2. Can they be put into the larger display tank with the other two fish or will they get killed.
<What are the other fish, their sizes?>
Right now I am feeding them live rotifers I got from a fellow reefer, what else do they eat?
<Most anything else small, meaty. Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/banggairepro.htm
I hear baby brine shrimp with Selcon is another good food for them. Thank You-Earl
<Artemia of quality and supplementation is of use; yes. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Baby Banggai Cardinalfish 11/2/12
Hi Bob, Thanks for the quick response. I should have been a little bit more exact, the other two fish I was referring to, were the parents. I have the parents, an ocellaris clown, royal gramma, McCosker's Wrasse, 2 zebra bar Dartfish, and a flame tail blenny. Nothing large and these are in a 65 gallon tank with 75 pounds of live rock and a bunch of corals. My LFS said that they should be okay at about 3/4" to 1" and they should be fine with the parents because they are a schooling fish.

Hi Bob,

In July this year I acquired two young Banggai Cardinals, giving myself a 50% chance that they were male and female. Although the two were virtually identical in appearance, as it turned out I was lucky.

One of them (I can tell them apart from certain slight differences) was always extremely aggressive towards its reflection in the front pane, spending much of its time attacking it, while the other never did anything except to hover in the current, snapping at any particles that came its way. The active one would also occasionally sidle up to the other one and commence to 'shiver,' ie vibrate its body, while hovering alongside it. It would also sometimes 'nose' around the passive one's abdomen, seemingly concentrating on its vent. I assumed this proactive one to be the male.

A few days ago the more active one upped its presumed courtship activity and spent hours vibrating its body against the other, which did nothing more than to expand its opercula a little, making its head look bigger, and sometimes it flicked its anal fin in the direction of the other one. On the following morning the same behaviour occurred again, with the proactive one continually nosing about the other's vent. When I next saw them at 1:30 pm, the passive fish clearly had a mouthful of something, presumably eggs, demonstrating that (assuming it is the male that cares for the eggs) I had the sexes the wrong way round!

What greatly surprises me is that it is the female that is proactive -- and aggressive. Can you tell me if this is normal with Banggais? I have read that the males will fight even to the death with other males, hence my failure to get the sexes right.

My other query, since I missed it, is how does fertilisation take place? The male must do more than just snap up the eggs into its mouth, the sperm must have to come into intimate contact with them somehow.

I hope to find out the answers for myself at some future date, but I am impatient to know now! Lots of people must have witnessed the spawning of Banggais, so I imagine the process is well documented.

Thanks

Derek Bunn

Good behavioral observation relating Derek! Yes, it is the males in Apogonids, Cardinalfishes, of course including the Banggai, that mouthbroods eggs and young. And yes, I have seen and talked with and read of others' accounts of female aggression in breeding et al. behavior in this species. Not only will females apparently 'harass' males, they often 'protect' them aggressively protect them from other fishes after the male has taken up her eggs. One ready suggestion to all who would keep this fish is to allow sufficient space to reduce antagonism.

As to the process, under cues as you describe, the female releases her eggs in close proximity to the male (1-2 centimeters) near the bottom (again a few cm.) where the male fertilizes them and picks them up in his mouth for incubation. Males are typically situated ahead of females, and when egg release commences, and some 2/3 of the egg mass is released, the male often scoops up and aids in pulling the clutch from the female. It is difficult to observe, but fertilization occurs during this exchange. The transfer occurs rapidly, only a second or two passing, and often there is some loss of eggs here, a few tens falling to the bottom. Note that females, usually in the absence may also orally incubate their own unfertilized eggs. A good number of breeding records of this Cardinal and other Apogonid family members can be found in print and on-line media (Breeder's Registry.com, MOFIB.com'¦); you are referred in particular to a comprehensive guide here: http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/seagrant/communication/pdf/Banggai%20Cardinalfish-Final.pdf and the references cited below in this article, particularly Marini, 1996; Vagelli, 1999

Banggai Cardinal Love Triangle? 6/25/12
Hello,
Thank you in advance for your help. I have learned so much from this site. It is a great service to the hobby. Seven months ago I upgraded to a 120 gallon(4'x2'x2') SPS dominant reef tank. My system includes a 40 gallon refugium and 40 gallon sump. The current tank inhabitants are three Bartlett's Anthias (Pseudanthias bartlettorum), three Banggai Cardinals (Pterapogon kauderni), one Sleeper Banded Goby (Amblygobius phalaena), one Six Line Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus hexataenia), one Coral Beauty (Centropyge bispinosa), one Kole Tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus), and your standard Ocellaris/Percula Clownfish that came with the first tank. Other than the tang sometimes being a tang everyone gets along great. The cardinals in question were added as juveniles about four months ago. About 10 days ago a pair formed. The third cardinal maintained a distance from the two and endured a brief bit of chasing. I decided to remove him to the refugium until I could find him a suitable home. Well catching him has proved difficult
<Use two nets>
and two days ago the pair spawned. The female has now left the male carrying the eggs and is exhibiting the pairing behavior with the third, now presumed male, cardinal. Which, if any, do I remove?
<Unless there is "undue/extreme aggression" I'd leave all in place. There's sufficient room here>
Thank you again,
Jeremy
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Breeding system, Fishes, SPS grow out 11/10/09
Hi Crew,
<Chris>
As the next stage of expansion in my basement fish room I want to set up a system for brood stock as I'd really like to try raising fish to complement my small scale SPS coral farming.
<Sounds good>
I already have the tanks I hope to use as follows -
2 of 2'x2' tanks 15" high
Sump 1'x4' 12" high
The 2 square tanks will sit next to each other, have around 14" of water depth, a small quantity of LR and added circulation. One of the tanks will have a 150w halide above, the other lit by ambient light only (light spill from the halide on the identical tank next to it and 3 halides over a tank 5' away directly in front of it)
The only residents other than fish will be snails and possibly cleaner and peppermint shrimp.
<Mmm... I'd skip the shrimp. Too likely to interfere with spawning, possibly eat young>
The sump will have a DSB (probably with macro algae) and LR, skimmer and return pump.
Right - onto the questions (bearing in mind my intention to use this system for my adult brood stock & best chance of happy fish successfully breeding)
1. Will one of these 2'x2' tanks (the one with the MH) be suitable for a pair of Tomato clowns and their Bubble tip anemone (I wouldn't usually include a anemone but these 2 have been resident in it for some years and as I intend to breed from them I want them to be a comfortable as possible)
<Should be fine... though almost everyone in Clownfish production leaves out symbiotic anemones>
2. Is the 150w halide acceptable light for the anemone? probably with a 10k or 14k bulb - I'm guessing this will be fine given the 14"water depth
<Should work>
3. Is a 2'x2' a suitable and comfortable home for a pair of Banggai Cardinals (again to breed from)?
<Mmm, yes... better to have more females, some physical structure to allow all to get out of sight>
4. Total system volume should be around 350 litres - would you agree this is a light bioload for this volume?
<Yes>
5. Would it compromise my plan to use the tank with the Banggai's (with added lighting - probably a twin 55w PC unit I have spare) for grow out of soft coral frags? Either mushroom Corallimorphs or a Sarcophyton/Xenia combo - any preference as to which would be most suitable if any?
<These can be co-cultured together>
6. For the DSB would I see any issues using ordinary play sand? I'm guessing this will be silica sand? - Aragonite is fiendishly expensive in the UK!

Many thanks as ever, let me know if you need any further detail.
Chris
<Cheers! Bob Fenner>

Banggai Cardinal laying eggs with no mate in sight 01/13/09 I have a 55 gallon SW tank with a single Banggai Cardinal. I also have a Coral Beauty, Royal Gramma and a Firefish. The Cardinal has now produced eggs 3 times in my tank. Since they are mouth breeders, she carries them around for a day or so and then I assume eats them or spits them out and the others eat them. <Likely, yes> Needless to say, I am excited by her behavior but it seems a waste of her energy without a mate in the tank. <Ha! I produce eggs every month without a mate... might be a "waste" of energy, but I can't really help it... neither can the Cardinal fish, I would assume. Also, consider that many marine animals can "store" sperm for up to several months.> <<Not Apogonids... eggs are externally fertilized... RMF>> Prior to laying the eggs, she spends much time pecking at her reflection in the glass. I assume she mistakes it for a mate and thus the eggs. She also bangs up her lower lip quite a bit with this behavior. I am concerned about her long term well being with this continued behavior. I am considering either getting a mate or do something to the sides of the tank to reduce reflection. <Either or... might work.> I'm not sure how to correctly identify a male, so this path would be hit or miss. Any other suggestions? <In a way, her egg production is a good sign that she's healthy and well fed. And she might bang on the glass for reasons that have nothing to do with this. I would consider reducing the reflection on the glass... whatever way works for you.> Thanks, Dan <De nada, Sara M.>

Re: Cardinal laying eggs with no mate in sight 1/13/09 Oh, here is a photo I forgot to attach. Thanks, Dan <Thank you for these. Btw, I hope you saw Bob's note. My comment about some animals storing sperm doesn't apply to Apogonids... since the eggs are externally fertilized. Sorry about that. Best,
Sara M.>

Banggai Cardinal Breeding 10/1/08 Hey crew, Just have a question regarding my pair of Banggai Cardinalfish. I have a 125 reef tank that includes the following: 4 Banggai Cardinalfish 2 (large pair) 2 (much smaller unsure if a pair) 2 Convict Blenny 2 Lawnmower Blenny 1 Yellow Tang 1 Blue Line Rabbitfish 1 Skunk Clownfish and 1 blue devil damsel (tank starter survivor) Along with various soft corals and some LPS. The nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia all register at 0 and the Ph is approximately 8.4 Salinity is 1.024 roughly around 175-200 Lbs of live rock and now for the question! I noticed on Sep 27th that my male BC had what looked to be a swollen jaw. Since I know that BC's are mouthbrooders I was overjoyed at the thought of raising baby BC. I did a simple check of feeding Mysis shrimp to see if this was the case as I know that the male wont eat. To my delight my guess proved true. On Sep 30th however i noticed that the "swollen" effect has since disappeared and he is now eating again. Now my question is this, my only logical explanation for this is that he was either stressed out (chased by another fish) to the point where he spit them out, or that he was simply not getting enough food. <Mmm, this last is doubtful. Apogonid males will go to unusual extent to see their young develop to sufficient size to release> I feed the fish in the 125 about twice a day, once in the morning with flake and pellet and at night with a few flakes and a large amount of mysis shrimp with a little bit of brine shrimp (all frozen) I also attach a small strip of sushi Nori for the tang and Rabbitfish. The BC won't eat anything other than the frozen shrimp so that is my thinking of the hungry theory. I would greatly appreciate any insight on any of the causes and would also like to know more about common breeding behavior with BC's! Thanks for your time and advice in advance! -Alex <Do look about for surviving young... the Blennies and Clown might have eaten most all... Bob Fenner>

We're Prego!, Banggai Breeding 1/28/08 Well my Banggai pair finally mated and the male is brooding the eggs in his mouth! <Exciting> I knew something wasn't right at dinner time tonight because he normally eats like a horse. But tonight, the Mysis and Blood Worm just floated by and he didn't flinch. At first I thought a problem because there is a small wound on his lower jaw. But on close inspection I noticed he was keeping his mouth closed and he "cheeks" looked all puffed out. Then it happened. He sort of yawned and opened his mouth wide and what did I see? A mouth full of eggs; we're Prego!!!!!! <Cool> Now, I don't have a day care tank for the fry but I am told with a well feed tank and the use of Cyclops that some can make it in the DT. <Is possible depending on tank size, tankmates.> What are the chances of some making it in a well fed tank? <Fairly good as long as there are not too many predators.> Thanks guys, pretty fired up Dad right now:-) Geno <Good luck and see here for more http://www.wetwebmedia.com/banggairepro.htm .> <Chris>

Re: We're Prego!, Banggai Breeding 1/28/08 Chris: Thanks for the reply. To your point here are some spec's: 65g DT LR Ecosystem Method Tank Mates: 1. 2 skunks 2. 1 One Spot Rabbit Fish 3. 2 Banggai Cardinals (with children) 4. 1 Flame Angel 5. 1 Orchid Dottyback 6. 2 Blue Green Chromis 7. 1 LMB 7. Standard clean up crew. Of this, my guess the Flame could be a problem. Thoughts? Geno <Really pretty much anything will go after the fry, they make tasty snacks. I would agree that the angel will be the biggest problem, followed by the Dottyback. Good chance a few fry may survive though.> <Chris>

Cardinals breeding ... again 1/25/08 Hi! I have a mated pair of Banggai cardinals in my 75g. I've emailed before about their breeding activities (in October 2007). They are now expecting for the 3rd time in 3-4 months. The male hardly gets a chance to eat before he's got a mouth full of fry again. He's significantly smaller than the female now. Or, more accurately, she's significantly bigger because she eats all the time. I know the female is committing resources to this process as well, but can they breed themselves to death? <Mmm, can be debilitating> Maybe that's a stupid question and that's just what they do in nature as a survival strategy when sexually mature -- breed as much and as often as possible. <And practical> It's fascinating to observe this process in a way I could never do scuba diving, but I also strive to provide the best care possible for my animals. Is there anything I should be doing differently (like isolating the male for a time between broods) to ensure the longest and healthiest life for them, or should I just be content to watch (simulated) nature take its course? Just curious. Thanks, as always, for your advice and observations. Ed <If this tank were larger... having some more individuals present might be a good idea... IF you were interested in maximizing production, more males, moving them out to "have their young"... Bob Fenner>

Immaculate Conception??? 12/31/07 My Banggai is not reading the book! He does not fit any of the descriptions listed on any website...and now look what he's done!! <Quite a cliff hanger entry en media res> The tank: 90 gallons.. 50 lbs live rock (and growing) 2 inches (total) live sand and crushed coral, remora pro skimmer, Fluval fx5, 3 Koralia powerheads 5 green Chromis, 1 tiny yellow tail damsel, 1 Ocellaris clown, 1 royal Gramma, 1 small yellow tang, 1 Banggai cardinal, 2 giant feather dusters, many snails and blue legged hermit crabs, 1 small red Fromia starfish All parameters stable and good. Temp :74.5 SG :1.023 <I'd raise... see WWM re> water changes about 5-10 gal weekly (we buy Catalina water). This tank had become my religion. I spend all my time happily meditating in front of it :) <Neat> Short story: I purchased a pair of Banggai in Sept 07..Within a month, one had perished. The other Banggai has such attitude. He is not at all shy, and can be found harassing the tankmates, but only as entertainment...He never hurts anyone. He is never intimidated and can feed with the fastest. Anyway, today before leaving for work, I checked on my little buddies and nearly had a stroke! In the darkness of the tank, it appeared my Banggai was missing part of his mouth. After illuminating the situation, I discovered he actually had eggs in his mouth!!! He has been feeding normally up until last night. Occasionally, he gets finicky, so I thought little of it. WHERE DID THE EGGS COME FROM??? <Some other animal IF they are eggs> Could he have been carrying them all along? <Mmm, no> Could they have been deposited by the deceased fish months ago? <No> Is it at all possible the eggs belong to one of the other fish in the tank? <Yes> Could the eggs be "duds"? <Yes> I'm completely mystified. The eggs appear clear with little whitish blobs inside (pretty much like the pictures I've found online). Well, on a positive note, I am sure I have a male. But, now what do I do? <Keep on keeping on> All my research has suggested not moving him for about 2 weeks, to reduce the chance of him aborting the eggs. He has found a quiet space, and is not being bothered. The royal Gramma hovers about, but I suspect she just wants some goodies. She's not getting close enough to disturb him. And, all the other fish are ignoring him entirely. His mouth is tightly closed now, and I haven't seen the eggs since this morning. But, I can tell they're still in his mouth. I've also read that I need a fake urchin for the babies, if, indeed, I get so lucky. Your suggestions are anxiously anticipated. Apparently, spending money is not a problem, since every extra cent goes into the tanks (We have 4)..I just want happy, healthy fishies. And babies would be just amazing. thanks...t (phoenix, AZ) <I'd leave this fish in place... keep observing. Bob Fenner>

Injured Banggai, I think... Expecting, Cigars... 12/3/07 Yesterday I did some very thorough tank cleaning that included some removal of nuisance bubble algae. I have two tank-bred Banggai Cardinals, one of which is very skittish. Afterward I noticed that the two Cardinals were staying very close--nearly touching--while the other fish had all relaxed after the 'trauma'. The skittish (larger) Banggai looked off somehow. I could not explain why at first, except that he looked more bulldog-like. I decided to feed the tank and the Banggai in question would rush up to food but not eat--not even open his mouth. He is a very picky eater (disappointing for tank-bred) but this was not his normal behavior; usually he spits food out but always tries it out. It's been more than 24 hours and I have yet to see him open his bulldog mouth. I am worried that in his terror during the cleaning he snagged himself on some dead coral or rock work. I took some pictures, so I was wondering if you could offer your opinion on them. http://www.lancealan.com/banggais.html Thanks. Lance <Oh! Nice pix... and pass out the cigars! Your non-feeding individual is a male carrying young in its mouth... Won't eat till they're released... No worries. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/banggairepro.htm and the linked files above on the right. Bob Fenner... Mr. and Mrs. below>

Re: Cardinals breeding! 10/25/07 Thanks for the response! I may be forcing you farther into the realm of speculation than I should, but what are the chances any of these fry will survive in my 75g? <Oh yes. A few might. Have seen this before...> The cardinals are the only fish and, otherwise, there are numerous zoanthids and mushrooms, Xenia, a Montipora, a Sinularia, and a small Plerogyra. <Oh! Then quite a few may go on to grow up here> There is abundant LR (about 90 lbs.) and a large pod population. Will the adult cardinals hunt them all down? <Not with great desire, no> Or is proper nutrition the larger problem? <Space, food... resource partitioning> Just curious. Thanks again! Ed Marshall <Thank you. Bob Fenner>

Cardinals breeding! Banggais 10/25/07 Hi - my pair of Banggai cardinals have successfully bred! Or, at least, the male has a mouth full of fry and both are being very secretive. I didn't even know that they were male and female, to be honest. Anyway, the fry will just make tasty food for the rest of the aquarium. My question is how often do they breed? <Every few weeks if in condition...> I'm thinking next time I might try to raise the fry after, of course, I manage to culture some brine shrimp and provide a separate tank for them. Or is there no way of predicting how often it might happen? <Only close observation> Thanks! Ed Marshall <Welcome, BobF>

Banggai and eggs (or any fish for that matter!) 5/30/07 All knowing fishmeisters... <Or know nothing something that rhymes with this!> My specific question: Do female fish - specifically Banggai Cardinals - need to be in the presence of a male to actually produce eggs? In other words, can my one single Banggai Cardinal have a tummy full of eggs? <Don't need to be, but is one of the prompting devices, signals which triggers this behavior> This seems like a real basic question, but for the life of me I can't find the answer anywhere! Oh sure... I can find umpteen articles about actually breeding the darn things, but nothing about the real basic birds/bees thing. <Mmm> Reason for asking is that I've got a Banggai in my 46g bowfront that hasn't eaten since Sunday. I feed once a day, and it going "light" for a day isn't abnormal. But it didn't eat Sunday OR Monday, has been swimming laps from end to end of the tank (more than normal), and seems to have a swollen abdomen. It's not discolored at all, scales are still flush with the body, and shows now outward sign of disease. Water parameters are perfect (0 ammonia/nitrites/nitrates, 8.3 pH, 1.025 SG, 77.5-78.5 deg F, 8.5-9.0 dKh, 0 phosphates) and the only other inhabitant fish-wise is an O. Clown. The Banggai has been in the tank for about 5 months now, with no aggression with the clown, and was the last addition to the tank except for a couple LPS corals about a month ago. Thanks in advance for any info you can give me about the whole egg thing. I'm trying to rule everything else out before I assume the little thing is sick because it sure doesn't act like it! Regards, Kurt <This is a useful question... in that it may lead to fertile speculation, study... Bob Fenner>

Re: Banggai and eggs (or any fish for that matter!) 5/30/07 Dear Bob, <Kurt> Thanks for the quick reply... and a personal one from you at that! <Only ones I've got!> Just an update - when I got home last night, the Banggai was back to it's normal skinny(?) self, and hovering in it's normal "feed me" location. It ate just fine, and seems to be back to it's normal self. My wife didn't see any strange happenings (egg laying, or one big poop!) so I'm not sure what the deal was. Strange strange. Regards, Kurt <Perhaps resorbed... happens... At times very quickly... Perhaps getting a male...? Bob Fenner> Banggai Cardinal Breeding/Gestation 11/9/04 Hi Crew, <howdy> It's been a while since I've written. Though I continue to read WWM on a daily basis. <good to have you along my friend> I was wondering if anyone in the crew is a B. Cardinal guru. I have a male that is carrying eggs/fry. I noted that he stopped eating more than 3 weeks ago. He has that "I'm so full I could hurl" look (see picture attached). After three weeks of guessing, I plopped him into the fuge in hopes that I can keep some of the fry. I already have a teaming fuge and have started the baby brine hatchery. My question, which I find an answer NOWHERE on the web is "How long does he carry" before I can expect free swimming fry? <Hmm.... with all due respect, David, and we all need a tweak like this now and again :), I must correct you on the "looked everywhere" comment. Through our actions, archives here at WWM, we aspire to help fellow aquarists to help themselves. learn and enjoy the journey. We are here to answer questions, but not enable. You may have dropped the ball on this one, mate ;) In an effort to help you find this answer (which I did not know/recall myself)... I went to the fab and famous Google search tool that is plastered all over our website and well-known at large. I typed in "Banggai cardinal gestation" and the first page and first hit/link on that page came up with the answer. A fine article by the experienced aquarist/author Frank Marini: http://www.reefs.org/library/article/f_marini.html> I want to ensure that I get Mr. Male out of the fuge shortly after he spits them. <it seems like the fry are due to be released according to Frank, et al. You can also see more information at the Breeders Registry online with spawning reports and details of many marine creatures> Any and all information, pointers, links you can provide are appreciated. <and my apologies for using you here as an example my friend :p All good-natured. And indeed, a reminder as to what an incredible (and under-exploited) resource the Internet really is> Keep up the good work. and remember when and if you ever get back to Boston, Mi Casa es Su Casa. David <a beautiful city... looking forward to seeing it again/meeting you perhaps. Kindly, Anthony>

Banggai Cardinal Gestation II 11/10/04 Cheers, David Anthony, <<and my apologies for using you here as an example my friend :p All good-natured. And indeed, a reminder as to what an incredible (and under-exploited) resource the Internet really is>> No apologies required. I'm not only a reef enthusiast, but a baseball coach, and Cub Scout volunteer. I understand the use of "examples" in teaching and your "coaching" is greatly appreciated. For what it's worth, I did browse the various FAQs but never used the search bar. Brain cramp I guess. Thank you for all your help and the information provided. <no worries my friend... thank you for understanding. indeed, I do live by the philosophy of "teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime." Giving it like I appreciate receiving it.> I wasn't as eager and nervous when my own sons were born! David <hehee... I promise I wont tell your wife, else you'll need to build a bigger doghouse... even if you don't own a dog <G> Anthony>

Pseudochromid compatibility and Banggai cardinal breeding 12/16/04 I have a few important issues regarding my aquarium. Firstly, I just added a pair of sunrise Dottybacks (a definite pair!), and a orchid Dottyback, <a poor choice mixing Pseudochromids, and this one prefers to be in shoals> to accompany the existing one. However, this orchid seems to be quite aggressive, but its size is not as big as the old one. There is definitely enough hiding spaces, will killing be an issue over a duration of time. <very likely... do separate them please> Also, I have a 10 gallon mini tank with two Banggais which I purchased about 2 months ago. The purpose was to achieve success in the breeding of these fish. Recently I added a flame Hawkfish in hopes to quicken this activity and one week later boom! Today one of my Banggais mouth was super full it, it was sticking out, and it kept on trying to keep something in its mouth by opening a bit and closing. If I am not mistaken is the male carrying babies. If so what methods, procedures, and materials do I need. <there are many thorough spawning reports on this fish at big message boards like reefcentral.com as well as the Breeders Registry reports online... do some keyword searches my friend and enjoy the journey towards resourceful enlightenment> How much preparation time will be needed (the flame Hawkfish might eat everything.) <remove the Hawkfish, mate... its too aggressive and the tank is too small> Another concern is will the fish even make it through this time span (these fish do not seem very old, the male has a super long fin though.) Food is also another concern, there is no place where I can find baby brine shrimp or live ones.... Thanks..... <no worries... the babies are large enough to eat fine dry foods... mail order online some freeze-dried and frozen Cyclop-eeze. Best of luck! Anthony> Pairing up Highfin cardinals Hello, <HI> yes I would like to have a mated pair. How do you tell them apart or do they change sexes like clownfish do? <You can't tell them apart and no they do not.> <<Actually... can be sexed at size. RMF>> Anthias as well? <really depends on what kind of Anthias (most of the time the males are different from females> Should I add 3 to my tank and see what happens? Thanks for any help, Jeff <the best way I have found is to take 5,(better odds of getting males and females) put them in a tank together and you will start to notice over time, that 2 will start to hang out together all the time. you will also notice them chasing the other ones all the time. remove the ones they are chasing and you have you self a pair. Good luck MikeH>

Hello WWM crew (Banggais, Phony Echinoids, Mandarin Worries) Hey Bob and fellas, I have a breeding pair of Banggai's in my reef tank this is the third time now they have bred but the last few times I had a Coral beauty that would harass the male till he would spit out the eggs or swallow him. So you know what I had to do (say bye coral beauty). I didn't flush him, just sold him to a buddy. This is the first time that they have breed since. I have done a lot of reading on this subject. I do not want to remove the male from the tank cause of all the liverock (35-40 lbs.) in my tank this would cause more stress on him and the other inhabitants then what I am willing to do. I have a continuous culture of brine shrimp nauplii going at all times that I dose the tank with 3 times a week. I read that they will eat brine nauplii right away and this is one of the better foods to grow them out on till they can eat Mysis shrimp. I do not feed my fish or corals adult brines imp. Should I go out and pick up a Longspine sea urchin for the young or catch what I can when they are born and put them into another tank. <From the sounds of it, I am guessing your tank is kind of small, due to 35-40 pounds of rock. A long spine urchin could quickly become a problem in anything under 55 gallons. It would end up being difficult to put your hand in there for routine maintenance. I would consider making a surrogate urchin for the babies out of underwater epoxy and tooth picks. I think it was Martin Moe that showed how to do this in a SeaScope article. It is pretty simple and supposedly works well to cluster the young and facilitate removal.> I just don't want to destroy my tank trying to catch him plus then run the risk of having him spit out the eggs and or swallowing them. What do you guy's think is the best way to go about it without catching him. By the way I have a RedSea Sailfin tang, Goldstripe Maroon Clown and a Mandarin fish that are also in this tank. Love the site as always keep up the good work. Thanks, James Wesley <Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Re: Chubby Mandarin, Faux Urchin, Luck O' the Irish Hey thanks for the idea of a fake urchin never thought of that. <You are welcome. I was trying to find the Moe article, but found this instead http://www.breeders-registry.gen.ca.us/Articles/v4_i4_marini/marini.htm> As far as the Mandarin fish goes he is fat as heck eating the pods in the tank. He will also will eat frozen Mysis shrimp. I have had him for about 2 years he was about an 1 1/2 inch when I first bought him now he's about 3 inches. Very cool fish one of my favorites. Yea my tank is a 40 long I went with the idea of 1 pound of rock per gallon a lot of the rock although is in large show size chunks. I bought the Mandarin fish cause there was so many pods that I had to have something for control of the population of them. <You are truly the exception to the rule. Please try to pinpoint how you are able to keep such a large population of pods in such a small tank and write up something for both or publication and for pay magazines. Plus, if memory serves you had a Tang, Dwarf Angel (subsequently removed), a pair of Cardinalfish, and a Clownfish. This tank is certainly not wanting for predators of pods.> Once again thanks for the idea and the quick response and as always keep up the good work. <And you keep up the good work. Please also understand that we answer questions both for the questioner and the readers of our webpage. Many times we mention something that has nothing to do with you or your question, but specifically for our readers. -Steven Pro>

Baby Banggais! Help! My Banggai cardinal's spawned. <Congrats!> The tank is a 29gallon reef with 2 perculas, 2 cleaner shrimp and a royal Gramma. What do I do? how long will they stay in the male's mouth? I was planning on setting up a 10g tank for the male. Any help will be appreciated. <Well, generally, young Banggais are released at around 21-25 days, at which time they can begin to feed on items such as brine shrimp nauplii (ok, not the most nutritious food, but if the nauplii are fed Selcon or other supplements, passable for a while), rotifers, copepods Mysis, etc. Many who have bred these fish advise dividing up the brood into smaller groups as they begin to feed, as some youngsters will dominate the others and prevent them from feeding properly. I have not experienced this- but it may make sense. Ideally, the young fish should be in their own aquarium, as you planned. Do a search on the wetwebmedia.com site for more information on the breeding and rearing of these cool fish! Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F>

Baby Banggai Cardinalfish I wrote Steven Pro a week ago about my baby Banggai Cardinals, and hatching baby brine. He suggested getting Cyclop-eeze which I did at a good chunk of cash (that stuff is not cheap). <There is an old expression, "Good things are seldom cheap and cheap things are seldom good."> My question is now that I have it, I have tried to feed it to them and they go for it at first but then look past it. <Banggais are known to be very finicky.> I want to know what you guy's think about how to get them to eat that and get away from nauplii cause the nutrition data on the Cyclops-eeze is way better then anything I have ever seen on any brine nauplii. <And so much more convenient.> How should I go about getting them to switch from on to the other? Any suggestions would be great. So far 14 hatched and 14 still living and getting bigger. <Great! So, when should that article be coming our way for posting on www.WetWebMedia.com?> Thanks, James Wesley <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Breeding Cardinals Just wanted to write and say thanks to Steven Pro. I wrote a few weeks ago about my Banggai Cardinals breeding and he gave me the idea of a mock urchin for the tank to get the fry out of the main reef tank. It worked well and now I have 14 new Cardinals swimming and eating in a grow out tank. They are cuter then the pics I have seen of them, quite interesting to see them school around the tooth picks of the mock sea urchins. I am now feeding them newly hatched brine shrimp nauplii fed with phytoplankton and fine filter food. I have two batches of brine going daily so they don't get large enough to diminish there nutrient quality. <All very good. Perhaps try some Cyclop-eeze. It is a newer product that is supposed to be a good alternative to hatching brine shrimp. It comes frozen and freeze dried from Argent Laboratories. I would still keep the brine shrimp going until you are sure the babies are eating enough of this stuff, but it could make your life a lot easier.> Thanks again Steven, James Wesley <You are quite welcome. Please consider recording your work and observations in the hopes of writing something to help others. -Steven Pro>

(Sexing Banggai Cardinals) << <<It's my understanding that this means for sexing the Banggai is not that precise, so half the time you would be wrong based on this ID. Were you thinking of breeding or just curious. If your cardinal is old enough, you can do a non-scientific sexing by dropping a second cardinal... if your first one tries to kill the second one, they are the same sex. How's that? Cheers, J -- >> >> That works, I guess one would become dominant and the other may change color to black too. <<Ahh, ok then - good enough. Cheers, J -- >>

Captive bred Banggais Hi Bob, I've been trying my hand at breeding Banggai Cardinals. I have posted a log with all the pertinent information at <A HREF="http://www.users.qwest.net/~mkm4/Banggais.html">Banggai Log</A> . If you have time, please take a look and tell me what you think. <Very nice work... both the "doing" of the Banggai culture and your site, relating of "how you did it"... > Is there anything I could have done differently, and does the plan for the next batch sound better? <Hmm, not really "better"... as in nothing succeeds like success. Maybe give a read over at "The Breeder's Registry", link on our Links pages if you can't find it... about other acct.s with this species of apogonid, and offer your link to them as well...> Thanks in advance for your help! Kathy p.s. I like the new format on the WWM site! <Thank you. Have sent this msg. to Mike.K, he's the function and looks side (thank goodness) to WWM. Bob Fenner>

Help, I got baby Cardinals Holy Mackerel, I got baby Banggai Cardinals. <Congrats!> I looked in my tank this morning and there they were. I new something was up because the male wasn't eating and had his mouth full. I moved them to my 30 gallon newly established refugium. What do I feed them to keep them healthy and alive. What a fantastic surprise. I just want to do what's best for the babies. <Hmm, an assortment of live foods of mouth size would be best... freshwater or marine in origin is fine. And do ask on the various listservs for folks opinions who have actually "been there, done that"... like the knew svc. through WWM: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ Bob Fenner> Thanks Bob Your reefing friend Rick

Banggai breeding information 10/19/05 I am looking into the breeding of the Banggai cardinals and was hoping you might be able to help me with web sites, giving me more detailed information about breeding these fish. Anything is a help, thanks, Jason <Hi Jason, do employ the search function as there are many, many links that will provide you with proper information. Here is a good few to start you off: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/banggaifaqs.htm , http://www.reefs.org/library/talklo...ini_020799.html , http://www.breedersregistry.org/Art...rini/marini.htm , http://www.reefs.org/library/article/f_marini.html, Good luck Jason, I see some nice and healthy chubby Banggai babies in your future. - Ali>

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