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FAQs about Banggai Cardinalfish Systems
Related Articles: Cardinalfishes,
Related FAQs: Cardinals,
Banggai Cardinals, Banggai ID,
Banggai Behavior, Banggai
Compatibility, Banggai Selection,
Banggai Feeding, Banggai Disease,
Banggai Reproduction, Great
to include macro-algae for zoo-plankton culture. | 
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I've woken this morning and found my little Emperor Cardinal dead under
a rock. 9/28/08 Hi Everyone , I'm calling from
England UK , and am desperately needing to find out why my little
Emperor <aka Banggai> suddenly died suddenly overnight. I have a
100 litre marine aquarium <A small volume...> which is currently
stocked with 2 clown fish, <Their territory> 1 large Emperor
cardinal , (the little Emperor who has now perished) , 1 fire shrimp , 6
red legged hermit crabs , 6 blue legged hermit crabs , and 1 coral
introduced 1 week ago. <Mmm, what species?> The aquarium is
stocked well with live rock , and I have stringently followed all
recommendations since starting my hobby some 3 months ago. All the other
fish appear well - and this little guy was actually the more active of
the two - and he also appeared to feed better too. We couldn't find him
this morning - and it took ages to locate him - he didn't appear to be
previously unwell - and he and the others don't seem to look any
different at all. Nothing appears untoward and they were both purchased
from a reputable stockist which quarantines prior to sale and were
sharing the same tank at the store. We found him wedged under a rock and
I can't understand how he could have got himself there. I conduct weekly
10% water-changes , and add 'Gamma NutraPlus' reef feed 3mls daily as
recommended. The fish are fed a varied diet of flake and frozen feed and
I have had no other concerns until this morning. He was such a character
- and I can't believe he just died like that with no apparent cause - as
I say - he looks just as he did when I bought him. The water is tested
weekly and has been excellent at last test 7 days ago: salt 1.022;
<Too low, esp. for the "coral"> PH 8.17 ; phosphate 0.14 ; KH 11;
calcium 480. <Mmm, a bit high> I only started using the reef feed
1 week ago - could this be linked??? <Doubtful> Thank you for your
time Grainne .Birmingham. UK <Likely just "stress" from being in
such a little world, with agonistic fishes (the Clowns) it couldn't get
away from... This is a social species... that lives in small shoals...
of spaces about the size of your couch... I would not add any more fish
here. Bob Fenner>
Banggai biotope stocking list Banggai Cardinal Biotope!
6/19/08 Hi, Scott Fellman! This is the obsessive cardinal-biotope
planner again. (I expect you may get up and run for cover--I did at
least warn you <g>). <I'll be sure to wear knee pads so I can hide
under the nearest table.. heheh!> I hope your presentation went well
last month. Someday I'd like to go to one of those conventions.
<Would love to see you at one...Imagine, 1,000 fish geeks from all over
the world in one hotel!> Well, you're going to laugh at me, but I
ended up going back to a Banggai biotope for my 75G setup. >I'll
NEVER laugh at a fellow biotope geek!> I wasn't able to find Pajama
Cardinals captive-bred, and from everything I've read Montipora digitata
sounded like a more beginner-friendly SPS than Porites. <True!>
Anyway, I've finally got the tank up and running, though not cycled yet.
I just wanted to check in with you about the setup and my proposed
stocking list and see if it sounds biotope-accurate--not to mention
compatible--to you. This is going to be very long, so please forgive me.
<You are forgiven...LOL> After some research, I decided against a
seagrass biotope. I love the way they look and would like to try one
someday, but I'm still a rank amateur of 7 months in this hobby and want
to stick to stuff I'm reasonably sure of being able to keep alive and
healthy. Seagrasses sound a little too challenging at this point. <I
can appreciate your hesitancy. In actuality, Seagrasses really aren't
that tough to keep. They do require a rather mature sandbed and an
understanding of their needs. I think the toughest part of their
husbandry is providing nutrients and waiting for them to put down roots
and start growing.> But after spending a lot of time on Flickr (which
turned out to be a really good resource for diving pictures), I came up
with the idea of modeling my tank after some Lembeh Strait habitats that
I saw. Apparently Banggais have become naturalized there. I'll just
leave out the human-created trash and rubbish that apparently is also
found there... :( <Yeah- that's a feature that we can do without!.>
For substrate, I've got about 1" (may add more) of Carib-Sea
Indo-Pacific Black live sand (fine whitish aragonite sand mixed with
black volcanic sand, plus a few bigger chunks of coral rock and even
shells), which is close to the color of the sand I've seen in a lot of
Indonesian diving pics. <I have used this substrate in my seagrass
biotope system and really like it.> I'm not a big fan of the usual
wall-o'-rock covered with corals (although they can look spectacular),
so instead I just got 3 good-sized pieces of nice aquacultured
Indo-Pacific live rock from my LFS, plus a smaller piece and some little
bits, just a little bigger than rubble, to scatter on the sandbed. <A
nice layout. A smattering of live rock rubble makes an interesting, open
aquascape.> They all have good coralline algae growth already and
came with some nice little hitchhikers--Stomatellas and Asterina, even
some tiny sponges. I have the 2 biggest rocks and the smaller one
grouped together (not stacked) at one side of the tank, and the last,
more interestingly shaped rock alone on the other side, with open sand
between and around them. <Very nice!> In the open area of sand,
I've planted a patch of Halimeda discoidea (I think it's discoidea) that
has been doing really well in my nano (also figured I would incorporate
a little microfauna from an established tank with it). I've seen
pictures of this macroalgae in a lot of Indonesian biotopes, including
in Sulawesi. (If only the ghost pipefish that live in it were hardy and
available captive-bred! So cool!) <Agreed- my favorite fish of all
time...Don't know if anyone actually has kept them in captivity,
though.> I also found an interesting-looking decoration at my LFS,
consisting of a couple of large barnacle shells with smaller ones
encrusting it (all dead and empty, of course), and added that up against
of one of the rocks. I'm thinking it might make a nice shelter for one
of the fish species I'm considering. I have to admit, I really like the
way this tank is starting to look. <I'm really happy to hear that!
Send pics!> I'm having a canopy made for me (hope to pick it up this
week) with PCs, which will come out to about 5 WPG of light (mostly
daylight with some actinic). Eventually I plan to add a clip-on metal
halide fixture to create those glitter lines that look so pretty in
marine tanks. For filtration, I would really like to try the Ecosystem
method of a refugium containing mud and macroalgae (Chaeto?).
<Chaetomorpha is a much better choice than Caulerpa, IMO.> The tank
isn't drilled, so I'd have to use an HOB refugium. Unfortunately the
Ecosystem refugiums are expensive, so I'm going to see if the LFS guy
who's building my canopy can make me an acrylic HOB refugium as well.
Should I supplement this with a skimmer? I also have a power filter
(which I'm using on the tank right now, with carbon) that could provide
supplemental filtration. <A good place for chemical filtration
media.> Finally, for the CUC, I'm planning to order the Live Sand
Activator Plus package from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms, and also add some of
their hermits, tiny brittle stars, spaghetti worms, pods, and some other
tiny invertebrates. <A great company to deal with, and nice
products, too.> I'll do this after I have the lights up and running.
I was also thinking of maybe adding some Chlorodesmis fastigiata to
either the sandbed (interspersed with the Halimeda) or on the rocks.
Would this be biotope-appropriate? <It would be fine.> Now for the
livestock. One of the reasons I've been so finicky and obsessive about
this project is that I'm planning to stock this biotope with all
captive-bred or -propagated fishes and corals and even invertebrates
(when possible). With the exception of the sand, so far everything in my
tank has come out of my existing system or someone else's, instead of
the wild, and I'd like to keep it that way. I want this tank to be as
sustainable as possible. There are so many crushing pressures on wild
reefs, and we hobbyists *do* have a significant impact on those
habitats, whether we want to admit to that responsibility or not. I also
really admire the good people attempting to reduce that pressure by
raising and selling CB fishes and CP corals and think they don't get
enough support in this hobby from short-sighted people who want to save
a few bucks by buying those same animals wild-caught. *deep breath* OK,
off the soapbox, end of PSA--on to the critters! <An excellent
attitude/philosophy!> For fish, I'm going to keep CB Banggais (of
course); I'll start out with a group of 5 or so juveniles, but in all
likelihood I expect to end up with a pair and to have to return the rest
once they're sexually mature. Since 2 small fish in a 75 would look a
little sparse, I also am thinking of adding one or two CB Meiacanthus
grammistes--I've actually seen a picture of these together with Banggais
in Sulawesi. The Fangblennies seem to like hiding in tubular structures
like sponges and shells, according to pictures I've seen, which is why I
added the barnacles (I'm not even going to attempt any sponges that
aren't already on my live rock at this point; they sound difficult). I'm
really going for an accurate micro-habitat here, so I don't know what
other fish I would add, if any. (there's also the challenge of finding
biotope-accurate fish that are also available captive-bred) <There
actually might be some captive breeding of Meiacanthus species-not 100%
sure. If you do end up getting them, I'd quarantine them very carefully.
The wild-caught ones I've kept almost always come in with some sort of
intestinal parasites.> Corals: I haven't actually seen any pictures
of Montipora digitata in the Lembeh Strait/Sulawesi diving pictures I've
looked at, but since Montipora is such a common genus I'm assuming
they're there! I'll have at least one frag of green digitata, plus maybe
one or two more color morphs--maybe pink and/or purple. I don't want it
to look like a jumble. I'm also thinking of adding a frag of Xenia (the
long-polyped brown kind), which I've seen in pictures of that habitat.
<Very nice!> I've also seen Euphyllia in some of the pictures (I
think it was glabrescens), which could also kind of visually stand in
for an anemone, but I've had bad luck with Euphyllias being aggressive
in the past. Maybe I could have it on the opposite side of the tank from
the digitata... then again, maybe I should just stick with the SPS to be
on the safe side. <I'd stick with one or the other. They ARE very
aggressive corals and can cause great harm to stony corals in this sized
aquarium.> Alternatively, I might like a Favites or a Fungia (might
not have enough room, though) instead, if those would work and not
nettle my Montipora. I also was thinking of adding a few polyps--maybe
some Zoanthids on the sandbed. Do you know of any species or colors that
would be appropriate? <Colors are strictly up to you. I like the
bright ones, myself-but some folks even like the drab brown ones! BTW,
Fungia look great against the Indo Pacific Black sand!> Finally, for
inverts, I would like a few ornamental shrimp. I've read that Banggais
may prey on ornamental shrimp when they're full-grown, so I had
considered getting a mated pair of Stenopus hispidus on the assumption
that they might be feisty enough to fend off marauding cardinals. On the
other hand, I'm worried that they might be a little too feisty for the
other inverts (and maybe even smaller fish like the Meiacanthus). Should
I stick to Lysmata instead? <I'd stick to the Lysmata. The Stenopus
can be aggressive, and since the Cardinals aren't exactly fast swimmers,
they could be susceptible to attack.> Anyway, thanks for having the
stamina to make it through this huge, long message. Any comments,
suggestions, and/or advice welcome. :) <I totally think that you're
on the right track here! I would highly encourage you to keep the coral
diversity down to maybe 3 species, distributed throughout the aquarium.
Try to minimize allelopathic competition as much as possible, and stay
true to your stocking plan. The results will be healthy fishes and a
unique display that you can be proud of! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Nano stocking question ) 3/14/07 Hey all, <Hi there
Darby! Mich here.> Seems every week or two, I have another
question, invariably due to some misadventure.... This time, it goes
like this: I have a NanoCube 24. Last week, its'
residents were a Yellow Tail Damsel, some small hermit crabs, a few
snails, 4 different kinds of Button polyps, and two different sizes and
colors of Star polyps. I have also been running a 7 gal. refugium to
culture copepods for a friends Mandarin. <What a nice friend!>
Over the weekend, the afore mentioned friend awoke to find his tank
cracked and leaking, possibly due to his dogs knocking a chair into it
while playing in the night. <Yikes!> He promptly
bagged up his fish (the Psychedelic and a Royal Gramma), and awoke me,
handed me the fish, and left. His parting words were "I won't be mad if
they don't survive, they haven't been eating anything lately anyways..."
<Uh oh!> Well, I can assure you that they are eating
fine. Voracious, in fact. <Oh! Very good!> I gave
them an adjustment time of 4 hours after their slow acclimation to the
tank, then fed them live Brine Shrimp. <Nutritional
value is poor.> I swear, the Royal Gramma was trying to take the
syringe out of my hand! <Hee!> The Psychedelic also
ate with relish, but only after I had managed to squirt a few shrimpies
over his head where he could see them. Ok, so all is well, and it looks
like I may be keeping these guys indefinitely. <OK.> Now,
before this occurred, I had ordered a pair of Banggai Cardinals for my
LFS. They arrive tomorrow. The question is: Should I purchase them
and bring them home, or will my tank be over-stocked? <I think
overstocked. Too crowed psychologically.> There are plenty of
places for the Cardinals to hide, should they wish to (including 2 good
caves), and so far the Royal Gramma and the Damsel are getting along
like good buddies and all is peaceful. I really hope to keep it that
way too! <Then don't add the Cardinals.> Thanks a bunch!
<Welcome! -Mich> Darby Re: Nano stocking question
3/16/07 Thank you for the reply Mich. <You're
very welcome my friend!> I'll give the B. Cardinals a pass.
<Very wise on your part.> I'm sure some other people in the area
will be tripping over themselves to get at them!
<Assuredly.> They truly are a striking fish, even if not what most
consider "colorful". <Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. -Mich>
Darby
Cardinal Rules Mr. Fenner, <Scott F.
this morning!> I just bought my first fish for my tank!! Yeahhh!!
Anyway it was a Banggai cardinal. The tank is a 20 long with 25lbs of
live rock. It has two powerheads on it each rated at 145g/h. From
reading your Faq's on them it seems they can be some trouble, is this
really the case? <Like any fish, they appreciate high water quality,
proper diet, and non-aggressive tankmates, but they are usually great
aquarium fish> After acclimating it under just a little ambient
lighting from the room, and tank lighting off I turned up the room
lights a bit and gave it a little brine shrimp which it took a few
pieces (5-10 shrimp). I know it may have been stressed so I was happy
with him taking anything. After that I left it go to get used to its new
home. Is that much circulation too much for it? Will it be ok to just
hovering there during the day with all that current, however there is a
few slower moving parts? <That should be fine, as long as there are
quiet areas and nooks and crannies for him to retreat to once in a
while> My other question is this: I've read they eat copepods or in
other words the critters that crawl about on the live rock. I have two
peppermint shrimp, and a fire cleaner, which also share these meaty
delights too if I'm correct. Will my 20 gallon tank with 25lbs of live
rock be able to supply enough of these critters? Exactly what are these
little things, shrimp? They are whitish and have little antennae.
<Sound like amphipods, and they are a nice supplement to the fish's
diet. However, it's unlikely that you have a sufficient population of
these creatures in your tank for your fish to gain all of his nutrition
from. You should continue to feed appropriate foods ( frozen Mysis,
"formula" foods, finely chopped seafoods, etc.) to your fish as the bulk
of his diet.> And lastly how can I sex the cardinal without being
able to compare it to others of its type? <Tough to do- the most
reliable indicator seems to be the larger size of the males, which is
not much help when you just have one!> Thanks, Mike <Good luck,
Mike-and enjoy this great fish!> Re: Banggai Cardinalfish
(update) Anthony (and Bob, etc.), <Cheers!> Thanks for your
advice on the Banggai's. Because of your help, I was able to understand
that many marine fish don't just dislike others of the same species, but
others of similar shape as well. <great to hear> Well, the LFS
finally put up some Banggai cardinals once they were acclimated to the
store. I went in thinking about everything that I've read and heard so
far, but ended up walking out with a male and two females. You were
right, they were easy to sex. I knew for a fact that two males would not
work, but I thought a 1:2 trio might. The male and one female
immediately paired up. Twenty hours later, the lone female joined the
group quietly. Twenty four hours after adding them to the quarantine
tank, the previously lone female was white and floating in the top near
the canister filter return. This is exactly where your web page noted
you'd find harassed Banggai's. <yes... paired cardinals can be
aggressive especially in smaller vessels like QT> I managed to put
her in an acrylic box in the quarantine tank. She survived until morning
and looked spectacular. Instead of tempting fate, I sold her back to
the store. <very wise> Later that day, I found the other female in
the exact same place! I couldn't believe it. I tried separating her too,
but she died, unfortunately. While the male was eating frozen brine
shrimp well, this female never ate under my care. It is possible that
she was stressed about the move and it had nothing to do with the male.
<yes... very possible> I decided not to push my luck by forcing
another cardinal in there, even if it may have worked. I never saw any
visible aggression by the male. <it often occurs at night> Your
advice was right on track the entire time. Thanks and I'm sure I'll
pick your brain soon again. Dave <best regards, Anthony>
Banggai cardinals? I'm interested in setting up a species tank
dedicated to Banggai cardinals. The set up would consist of 125 gal
aquarium 100lbs of live rock, fluidized bed, Berlin H.O skimmer and 4
48" fluorescent lights. My question would be if I purchased a large
shoal of them say 20-30 would fighting break out or would they live in a
school peacefully with the possibility of breeding or would it be a
disaster? My last question would be should I add dither fish such
as Chromis or something in that nature. Thanks Bob >> A
grouping of ten or so would be fine... no fighting... and they
would/will breed, little doubt. Yes to dither fish... to add excitement
for you as well... And maybe some soft corals... and Xeniids... and....
Bob Fenner - New Banggai Cardinals - Hi, I
have a 55 gallon saltwater tank and just got the go ahead from my local
store to purchase my first fish. The water sample was good. I purchased
2 peppermint shrimp on 2/3 and put 2 Banggai Cardinals on hold as they
were not ready to leave the store until 2/6. The shrimps did great. On
2/6, we picked up the Cardinals and 2 more peppermint shrimps. The 2 new
peppermint shrimps died before the evening was up, the 2 cardinals
seemed fine and even ate a bit that night when I fed the two original
shrimps. <You probably need to take more time acclimating your
invertebrates - they don't do well when the salinity swings drastically
and often the salinity at the store is very different from your own
tank. I always ask them what the salinity of their tanks is for the
animal I have purchased and then adjust my acclimation time
accordingly.> The next morning, I noticed the larger of the
Cardinals near the bottom in a hidden spot and breathing heavily. I
called the store to tell them of the shrimp dying and to ask about the
Cardinal. I took more water in for testing and it turned out to be fine.
I was told to keep the lights off for another day and to wait and see.
Well, he comes up very occasionally, but is still breathing hard; the
other one appears fine and the other shrimps are still fine. <Do
these fish have anywhere to hide? Generally speaking, cardinal fish are
timid and when moved from system to system need to be able to "chill"
somewhere that seems safe to them.> He didn't eat this morning, but
the other one did. I don't notice any lesions, sores, bumps or anything
to suggest an illness, but am concerned I am going to lose another new
occupant. Any ideas? <Give it some time.> I acclimated them
according to the stores recommendation. I am very new to the hobby and
could only find that sometimes fish go to the surface and gulp if
stressed; mine is at the bottom; he's not sideways, upside down or
anything funny. <They also do this when stressed - similar to
people, two identical fish in identical circumstances will often react
two different ways.> The two were swimming nicely together last
night after about six hours in a dark tank; both were in the same tank
in the store. <Give it time... sounds like stress which often takes
several days to a week to abate.> Thanks for any help. <Cheers, J
-- > Banggai Cardinal Deaths...Very New System - 07/27/06
Hi there! <<Hello!>> I have a 72G reef ready Oceanic tank being
filtered by 110 pounds of cured live rock and a 20G refugium w/protein
skimmer. I only run the skimmer for about a week in six. <<Mmm...am
a firm believer in running skimmers 24/7>> I perform a 15% water
change every 10 days. Water parameters are all spot on. Ammonia &
nitrite at zero. Nitrate never above 25ppm. <<This is a reef
tank? Nitrate should be below 5ppm. If this is a FOWLR/FO you should
still strive to keep nitrates below 20ppm>> The tank was started on
May 6th of this year, as defined by the placing of the rock in the tank.
<<Ah, a very "young" tank indeed>> To date, livestock consists of 5
Blue/Green Chromis, 1 Six Line Wrasse, 1 Blood Shrimp, 2 Turbo Snails
and about 12 Blue Legged Hermit Crabs. All of these animals have been
doing great since their introduction into the tank. The problem
occurred when 4 Banggai Cardinals were added. They all started out
great. Eating enthusiastically and swimming vigorously. After two
weeks they started (one by one) losing their appetites, becoming
lethargic, demonstrating labored breathing (some had stringy white
feces) and dying. Per fish this process took about 3 days from loss of
appetite to death. <<Possibly environmental, compounded with stress
from conspecific aggression>> All of the other fish are still doing
fine. Can any one tell me what is happening. <<Banggai Cardinals
are generally hardy once acclimated to a "mature" system. They also can
be quite intolerant of conspecifics unless in mated pairs. The problem
you describe may be a combination of a "too new" system (for this
species) and aggression related stress>> I have a Purple Firefish in
the quarantine tank and I'm afraid to put it in the main tank until I
have some clue. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm
new at this. I would give this system a couple more months to
mature/reach a balance before adding more cardinals...or the firefish
for that matter. Letting your skimmer run continuously will also be of
great benefit, in my opinion>> Thanks!! Jan Harrison
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>
Re: Banggai Cardinal
Deaths...Very New System - 07/27/06 Dear Eric, <<Hello Jan>>
Thanks for the response. <<Is my pleasure>> I'll certainly
utilize your advice. <<Ah good, for the best overall really>>
Jan <<Regards, Eric Russell>>
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