Chiller a great impediment to flow? Chiller Installation/Flow 1/30/08
Dear Crew,
<Hi Kent>
I have a Current Prime 1/10hp Chiller which calls for a flow of 300-720gph. My tank is 20inx20inx16in, making it around 27gal. I'd like to have about a 15x turnover rate, so I'm looking for ~450gph of circulation in my tank. My plumbing scheme for the chiller is: tank=>external pump=>chiller=>tank. The chiller will need to be placed ~4ft below the rim of my tank (so, a 4ft head) and, after the chiller, I'm going to split the line going into the tank so that I will have two inlets, one at each end of the tank pointing toward each other (and, hopefully, each pumping ~225gph).
<Definitely install ball valves on each line here, flow rate will not be equal. Will all depend on the head loss of the chiller. Current doesn't give this info in their fact sheet. You may want to contact them on this.>
The pump I'm thinking of using is the MagDrive 7 which claims a flow of 450gph at 4ft.
<Yes, with one line out. I'm thinking you will be using a "T" to avail two lines. The "T" alone will reduce flow rate some.>
This flow would occur If the pump were in a closed loop by itself 4ft below the tank, but this doesn't account for any other impediments to flow.
<Yes, elbows and other fittings all come into play in restricting flow.>
I guess my question is this: how much would you expect the chiller to impede the flow?
<Don't know without info on head loss of this model.>
With this chiller, pump, plumbing scheme, and head what would you expect the flow to be? Much less than 450gph?
<Will be less. Is best to oversize the pump, you can always reduce output with ball valves with no harm to the pump.>
The MD7 mentioned above claims to use ~60W of power. Another pump I'm considering is the Quiet One Model 3000 pump. This pump claims 780gph at 0ft and ~580gph at 4ft and uses only 40W of power. Would you please apply the questions I asked above to this pump? Which pump would you prefer?
<I always go for the lower wattage consumption providing flow rates are close to being equal. My choice would be the Quiet One. With this model, you may be close to 450gph after restrictions are taken into account.>
Thanks for your help and advice,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Trent

Chiller question, Pb  12/21/07
Hi Crew,
<Hello Rich.>
I am moving my chiller into the basement. I am having difficulty
determining the proper size pump. Based on the attached diagram, can you tell me the head loss that will occur?
<Actual head loss will be negligible, you are essentially creating a closed loop.>
And any other wisdom would be appreciated. Thanks for your consideration.
<You are looking for friction loss from the distance the tubing runs. Easy enough to estimate using flow chart for pipe I.D. vs. flow. You can simply google friction loss chart, then add up the loss from all your pipe and fittings. You can then size a pump based on the manufacturers head loss graph. Plan on losing an extra 10-15% of your flow through your chiller. This is not a definite number, just a generality. All chillers will restrict flow somewhat, some more than others.>
Thanks
Rich Mc Donald
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Heat Issues...Where Do I Place A Chiller? – 06/15/07
Hello crew-
<<Greetings Lithy>>
Read thru the chillers page and learnt a bunch about sizes, stands and plumbing.
<<Ah...but have you read/learned enough? [grin]>>
I have an acrylic 100G with 2 x 250W + actinics. The light fixture has efficient fans built in but when it is on and the open-top canopy is in place the water temp will climb 3-5 F above room temp over the course of the photoperiod.
<<Yes...very common...have you tried placing a small fan to blow across the water’s surface for evaporative cooling?>>
This means that if the forecast is for 78F or higher in need to run the central A/C when I am at work when I normally wouldn't.
<<I see>>
I think a chiller, while not required, would save me electricity in the long run.
<<Mmm, maybe...but I would try my fan suggestion first>>
I have not found much about the issue of placing in-line chillers in the stand.
<<Have done so...and “do not” recommend. You think your house gets warm now!...>>
From what I can tell most manufactures say this MUST NOT be done due to poor ventilation.
<<Yes...and do realize the energy/warmth pulled from the water by the chiller; as well as that generated by the chiller’s motor and compressor itself, is expelled in to the stand/room. Though sometimes difficult, these units are best plumbed/placed in remote (outside) locations>>
I have a large ~30g sump in my stand, which has is almost fully open in the back and about 4" away from a wall.
<<Hmm...placing a small fan to blow on the water’s surface in the sump will also provide some cooling effect>>
Inside the cabinet there is a space next to the sump of 15"W x 22"L x 20"H; most chillers will use this space almost entirely leaving little room around it for ventilation.
Questions:
1) Would you recommend getting a chiller in this stand (I live in a
small condo so this is the only location option)?
<<I would not...any electrical savings you think you are going to realize will be negated by having to run the central AC more often and/or at a lower temperature to compensate for the heat being pumped in to the room by the chiller unit>>
I would use a submersible pump from the sump to the chiller and back to the sump.
2) If not, is it ok if on average the tank temperature fluctuates about 5F over the course of the day without exceeding 82F? 84F?
<<Many might state otherwise, but in my opinion/experience, yes, this is fine (though at the upper limits) if the change is gradual and the tank/occupants are otherwise very healthy. But I am sure you could at the least “reduce” this fluctuation through some evaporative cooling as explained>>
Any fish or invertebrates that I should NOT buy if the tank runs above 80F on a daily basis?
<<Mmm, most all truly tropical species sold in the trade experience such temperatures>>
Thx!!!!
Lithy
<<Regards, Eric Russell>>

Water flow…pumps…chiller…plumbing issues  2/5/07
Hello Crew:
<Hey Justin, what’s up?>
First of all I would like to say that your site has been really helpful with getting through some problems with my own setup. I know you all get a lot of emails so I will keep it short.
<Thank you for the compliments.>
I just need some advice.
<I will do my best.>
In my 125 gallon full reef setup, I have a 1/4 CoraLife in line chiller that is hooked up to a 750gph mag drive pump.
<Okay.>
The chiller, per CoraLife, has a recommended pump rate of 475-800gph. The hoses to and from the chiller are approximately 4 feet in length. The problem that I am having is that there does not seem to be a lot of water current coming out of the return pipes for optimum water movement. I know that there is nothing wrong with the chiller as this is been happening since it came out of the box.
<If I am reading this correctly, you are utilizing the same pump to supply water to your chiller as well as return water from your sump area to the display…with the 8 feet total of piping (including turns, etc. .) there is a lot of head loss here. I personally prefer to use a dedicated supply pump from the chiller to the tank, and of course a dedicated return pump. Furthermore you mention there is not a lot of head pressure from the return tank to sustain water movement. I don’t like to rely on the return pump to provide adequate water flow to the entire tank because ideally you don’t want more than 5-10x the tank volume moving through the sump an hour….especially if you have a skimmer in the sump processing the overflow water.  I would rather rely on closed-loop systems or even powerheads to make up for this and create a turbulent environment.>
Additionally, when the in line chiller is removed from the setup, the pump works fine.
<Less resistance.>
Can I put a bigger pump behind the chiller for a more rapid output in the tank? If I put a pump in line larger than 800 gph will it damage the chiller?
<It won’t break it but it will not be work properly (the water won’t be inside the chiller long enough to be cooled).>
Any other ideas of what to do would be great as well.
<See the above.>
Thanks so much and keep up the great work guys and gals.
<Thank you.>
Justin
<Adam J.>

Plumbing problems
My first attempt didn't seem to get through
<MSN did have a few problems for about one day a little while back.>
Hi Guys,
I finally broke down and bought an in-line chiller and thought that it would be easy to plumb. Wrong again. The inlet and outlet for the chiller is above the level of the sump and the pump. Needless to say I can't get the lines to fill with water and pump back up to the tank. How do I get a siphon and will it last when the pump is shut down?
<You really do not want to have a siphon.>
As an add on to the last e-mail concerning the plumbing of the chiller, I have an Iwaki pump which pushes 1200 GPH. The chiller inflow port is 2' higher than the sump.
<Ok>
I have 1" I.D. tubing going from the sump, through the chiller, back down to the pump and up 4' to the tank.
<Wait a minute. Are you attempting to suck water from the sump through the chiller and then up to the tank? That is what it sounds like and that is not the way to do this. Very simply, have your Iwaki pump suck water from the sump through a bulkhead fitting. Then pump through the chiller and then continue up to the tank.>
I hope that this clears up the situation better. How can I obtain and retain a siphon?
<A siphon is the wrong way to go.>
Thanks as always, Joe
<Talk to you later. -Steven Pro>

- Plumbing in the Chiller -
Yo WWM dudes,
"Capt. Nemo" here,
<Yo, do you have a submarine named the Nautilus?>
I have a "shark victim" customer with major problems. They just bought a 125-gallon aquarium and cabinet from a local shop "shark" (if you get my drift), and they are now having nothing but trouble. Soon after, they heard about us (bad timing). They came down to our showroom and were very impressed with our systems but since they already have a "system", for lack of a better word, they are reluctant to buy a whole new system, which I can sympathize with. I agreed that I would try to design a retrofit system to eliminate all the problems they have (abysmal filtration, super-puny pump, a 400 GPH submersible as the main pump!, i.e., almost no water flow, and a lot of heat. All the coral and fish they purchased (from the shark) are all dead. Truly a shame. <Indeed.>
Most of the redesign is no problem except that they purchased (from the shark) an in-line chiller to minimize the heat, which they want to continue to use (they paid over $750.00 for it).
Since I've been able, so far, to design systems without the need for a chiller, I'm trying to figure out how to integrate the chiller they have without restricting the water flow. According to various sources, water flowing through the chiller will restrict the flow from the main pump 2-4 feet worth of head.
Part of my original design was to install a high-power pump (at least 1400 GPH) to run the system. In a nutshell, here are two questions: If I plumb the system with the chiller in-line, does that drastically reduce the flow? <To an extent, yes, but more importantly too high of a flow through the chiller will drastically reduce it's ability to chill the water and in turn the chiller's efficiency.> If so, can I plumb the system using the same main high-output pump and then add a second, lower-output pump to circulate water only through the chiller? <Yes.> It seems to me that the second option would be best. <This is the best, and in my opinion only option that will "work".>
This adds a second pump but it seems overall, it would stress the low-power pump less than making the high-power pump work hard for nothing. This would leave the main pump to get that water moving.
Any thoughts or pearls of wisdom (pardon the pun)? <None other than what you've already covered... seems to me that you're on it.>
Steve "Capt. Nemo" Bicker
<Look out for that Maelstrom - Cheers, J -- >

AZOO chiller
hi there,
I am having problem to determine what is the right way to install all the pipes from the tank to the chiller and vice versa.....wondering if anyone can help on this very situation and also I would like to know how to clean the chiller so that it will work properly and keeps the tank cool. thanks in advance for any help at all.
Calvin
<http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modules.php?name=Product_Review&bkid=41
Not much to do with this/these types of units... there is a single in/out plumbing fitting to the Titanium exchange section... you want/need to provide a pump to run water through the unit... best to push rather than pull... and this pump can also service other devices if you'd like... as in a sump, skimmer... Keeping it clean entails situating the chiller where it can get good air-circulation and occasionally vacuuming the outside to keep it dust free. Bob Fenner>

Re: AZOO chiller
hey Bob,
thanks a lot for your information....however, I would like to know which one of the two sources (on top of the chiller) is in and which one is out. someone suggests that the right pole is in and left pole is out........someone else suggests the opposite.......wondering if you can provide me with this very information. thank you in advance.
Calvin
<Mmm, doesn't actually matter... one in, one out. Bob Fenner>

Flow Meter 12/16/04
Hi Bob,
<Anthony Calfo in his stead :)>
I'm setting up a new 175gal reef tank & I was hoping to get some advice from you on where I can get a flow meter for my chiller line.  
<many of the online mail order companies stock such parts if you ask... the specialty places in particular like MarineDepot.com or CustomAquatic.com, perhaps... else you can try aquaculture suppliers like Area Inc. in (Homestead?) Florida... do an Internet Yellow pages search for these folks. I am sure they stock this item>
I've seen this mentioned on the site in various places but I'm not sure which type to get (or where to get it).  I don't want to put something in that will pollute the water in some way.  
<seek all plastic... avoid all brass parts which are FW safe but not SW safe>
I have a 3/4" flexible hose connection off a feed from
my main pump. Thx very much Mike
<kindly, Anthony>

Chillers and UV
Hi, I've read for hours/days/weeks.  Learned MUCH!  I am setting up a 300 gallon Reef (96 x 24 x 30). Sump is fed by two 2" drains from overflows on each end. Sump also feeds a refugium which feeds back into the sump. Return from sump to tank is Velocity T-4 @ 1250gph @ 4' head.  The tank also is plumbed with a 1" bulkhead for a closed loop system that returns to the tank via a manifold around the top with multiple outlets. The question is regarding this closed loop system. I want to run my 1/2 HP chiller (I live in Florida) and 80W UV filter on this closed loop. Is there any reason why I can't do this? The UV filter is 2" in diameter and the Chiller is 1.5" in diameter. As long as my pump is rated to take the extra head, then why not?? <It would be fine but I would add a mechanical filter to the inlet of the U.V. and then plumb the chiller next.  The idea is that you do not want detritus to pass through the U.V.  It makes it less efficient.> (pump planned for this is Blue Line 70HD @ 1750 gph @ 4 feet, more like 1500 gph with the extra head caused by the UV and Chiller and the necessary plumbing). Also note that both the chiller and UV are rated to take this much flow, so that is not an issue. My concerns are that if I run the chiller and UV off of the sump then I'll be taking away
from the already "low" return from the sump.  Heck, I've seen the inside of the chiller...its just a 4" diameter PVC pipe with a cooling coil inside...so I don't think that some circulating detritus could hurt it... Finally, can the 1" bulkhead support a closed loop flow of 1500 gph? <1" bulk heads can handle comfortably 700 gph I would recommend something larger.  The detritus will make the chiller and U.V. work less efficiently.  If you add a mechanical filter before U.V. and chiller then you should be fine.>
Thanks!! Jim
<Good Luck. MikeB.>

Pump for Chiller
Hi Guys <Hello Wallace>
Just had a question regarding chillers in for the aquarium (Its summer
over here).
I have a 5ft long tank, (approx 3ft deep, 2ft wide). Its basically a salt water reef and fish tank with live rock. During summer, I'm hitting max of 93F(34-35 degrees Celsius) , but usually hovering around 86F(30 degrees Celsius).
I have a chiller (Resun CL450) but my question is, what type of pump should I use with this sort of chiller (as it didn't come with one) ?
Unfortunately I don't have the box that came with the chiller when I first bought it, but I don't remember a recommendation written on the box nonetheless. I'm sure that the water pump shouldn't be too fast or it won't chill the water enough or as efficient. And I'm sure the water pump shouldn't be too slow as it wont be chilling its maximum potential amount of water.
Would you be able to help out here ? Is there a rough guide as to what how big the pump should be (how many liters/gallons per hour) the pump should be for this sort of tank? <Wallace, I can tell you that the chiller you have is designed to handle up to a 380 gallon tank.  If I were in your position I'd probably use a large Eheim pump, or another brand with an equal pressure rating. I don't believe a regular power head will do the trick. One way to make sure you are not pumping the water too fast through the chiller is to use a digital thermometer and place the probe near the outlet to monitor the temperature of the chilled water.  In a tank your size (225), I'd like to see around 2300gph of total circulation.>
Thanks! <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Pump for Chiller  12/20/2005
Hi James <Hello Wallace>
Thanks for the advice!! <You're welcome>
I am looking at the Eheim pumps, and they range from about 300l/h (79US g/hour) to about 2280l/h (602 US G/hr) .. would you suggest that I get a pump around the 300 / 600Liters/hour or higher towards the 1200/2280 liter / hr ? <I would go with the 600 gph.  You can always throttle it down with a gate valve.  I'm thinking your chiller is efficient enough to process that amount of water per hour.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks again!

Chiller Pump - 12/25/05
My tank is around 890 L and the sump around 175 L.  With the return pump rated at 3400 l/h, I expect less when running through the chiller.
<<Yep>>
Do you think the two Tunze Turbelle Stream 6100 pumps, Which can provide a flow rate from 4000 to 12000 l/h plus the return pump, Will provide enough flow for my fish only tank.
<<Should be fine.>>
I wish to provide the best conditions possible.
<<Be sure to research your fish selections thoroughly...before purchase.>>
Please advise if you think there are any further mod.s to be done.
<<I have none, based on the information provided.>>
Thank you for your time and knowledge,
Alan
<<I hope it has been of help, EricR>>

Plumbing A Chiller And Skimmer Together - 03/01/06
Hello wet web,
<<Hey Mike>>
Here is another question for you.  I'm trying to configure my chiller (1/5 JBJ Arctica) and my Skimmer (Bermuda BPS-150) to run on the same pump.
<<Not the best of plans...in my opinion.>>
The chiller is rated for 480/1320gph and the skimmer is rated for about 700/800gph.  I would be using either the Mag-Drive 9.5 or the Hagen 70 which are both rated at about 950gph.
<<Not big enough to run both.  Were this me, I would use one of these pumps for EACH piece of equipment here.>>
My question is, would I be able to run these two components on the same pump?
<<Not recommended...even if it were large/powerful enough.  Too much trouble to try to "balance" the flow...the skimmer more than the chiller will suffer for this.>>
First I would have the pump pumping from the aquarium down to the chiller (4' below) and back up to the skimmer (4' back up). This would bring the gph down to about 750/800gph. Would this configuration work or will the skimmer slow the gph down too much for the chiller?
<<Ah, ok...not what I was envisioning.  I still don't think it's a "great" idea, but it would probably work.  You may well find that you need to push more water through your chiller to optimize its performance than your skimmer can handle.  If you find you need to change things around later it shouldn't be a difficult fix so...why not...give it a try.  Do make sure the pump is pulling raw water from where it "enters" the sump from the overflow.>>
Thanks for the help
Mike
<<Regards, EricR>>

Flow rates for my chiller... pump sel. in the UK   2/7/06
Good evening crew,
<Paul>
I wonder if you could help me? I have just re-set up my tank and I have installed my Aqua medic titan 1500 chiller about 15' away from my tank, (it's in a cupboard under the stairs).
<I see>
The pump that I am using is an Eheim 1262 to send the water from the sump and then back to the tank which is above the sump, so the water has to go 30' in total and then up 5' to go back into the tank, to be honest I don't think that the Eheim can handle the flow required to make the chiller work properly.
<Yikes...>
When I switch the chiller on the digital temp gauge starts to go up and not down, so I turn it off after a couple of minutes, could you recommend a stronger pump (I have been looking at the mag pumps on the American sites), or the other alternative is to get a chiller that works on a slower flow, what do you guys think?
All the best Paul, England
<You do need a fluid-moving pump of greater pressure/flow characteristic. Am unfamiliar with what stockists in your country have (in 50 Hz, 220 V)... but would look at performance curves re the run and head you state, bring information with you re the fitting, plumbing diameter for all, and ask various opinions there. More than about 5-10 turns (total volume) per hour become "not worth" the effort here. Bob Fenner>

Flow-Through Chiller Plumbing - 07/16/06
Hi there,
<<Howdy!>>
I am designing a new reef tank and would like to know whether an external chiller should receive the water though an extra drain from the tank and then return to the tank; OR return to the sump; OR receive and return from the sump?
<<It's quite "plausible" to plumb the chiller as a closed-loop with its own dedicated pump, but I find it is quite "sufficient" to place the chiller in-line with the sump return pump...choice is yours my friend>>
If the sump should be used, where should the in/out out holes be placed; i.e. top, bottom, etc... Thanks for your time.
<<Hmm...water will enter the sump via the overflow drains and exit through the chiller via connection to the return pump...no "holes" needed...if I understand what you're asking that is <grin> >>
Regards,
Shawn
<<Cheers, EricR>>