High temperatures   11/24/06 Dear Crew <Hi Daniel! Tim answering your question today!> First can I say that I love  your website! It's a great resource and it has already come in great use! Two things: 1)I'm having a bit of a problem with temperature in my tank. I live in Australia and am heading into summer. Recently temps have been getting up to 40C and my tank is staying at a consistent 31C. I've read you advice about adding a fan to cool the water, but this is where the problems begin. I have an AquaOne 120 all-in-one setup (wish I'd never bought the thing but stuck with it now). Since the lights (2 x 30 W actinics and 1 30 W fluorescent) and filter are built into the top, it makes adding equipment very difficult without significant drilling of plastic! Do you know of any way I can modify this system to add a fan? Would adding it to the filter box be sufficient? A chiller really isn't an option as I've already forked out a packet and I don't know if ice blocks will work over the long term either. <Have a look at purpose-built aquarium fans that are often much smaller than standard fans, and so may be more easy to place into your aquarium. Also, although your fluorescent lamps will not produce a considerable amount of heat, it may be helpful to have the lights on at night, late in the evening or early in the morning, before the heat of day (though the transition to this should be slow, to allow the livestock to gradually adjust and avoid "jet lag"). Depending on your current set up, you may also be able to reduce the amount of time that the lights are actually on - this will also depend on your live stock, though I would imagine that with regular fluorescent lighting there is not much photosynthetic life in your aquarium. Finally, if the aquarium is in a room with a lot of windows, consider covering the windows with curtains or blinds to reduce the ambient temperature in the room as much as possible.> 2) I have also had a pretty bad time with diatoms. My LFS seems to think it could be due to the old lights that came with the AquaOne setup (3 x 30W Atman Fluorescents which I have now changed to the actinics mentioned above). Does this sound likely to you? It's also worth noting that my protein skimmer has only just started working as I added it about 3 months after the tank was started. <Check your water parameters - presumably you have a problem with nitrates and/or sulphates. Reduce these with large water changes (also be sure to check your fresh water ANN levels!) and a continued proper maintenance routine involving regular water changes. Your lights will only be partly responsible for the problem. Other culprits may include overfeeding and insufficient circulation. What kind of protein skimmer are you running on your system? Best of luck resolving this problem!> Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Dan Miller

Live Rock Thanks for your fast reply. Feel much more relieved.. :D The tank's still cycling though.. no livestock yet.. I'm worried about the temperature though.. I understand it should be around 24-27 degrees,<yes> but as I live in tropical Singapore, the it soars to about 29 in afternoons. A chiller is not really feasible due to costs (I'm a poor 14yr old.. :D) and a fan would look out of place.<agreed> I have heard from a retailer about freezing bottles and immersing them and I'm worried about the fluctuating temperatures.<you could do this and put the frozen bottles of water in your sump> Are there any other solutions to keeping it cool or must I beg my mum for the chiller? <you could try the freezing bottles of water idea...but the chiller is probably your best bet, Good luck, IanB> :D Thanks again, Hector

Keeping His (Tank's) Cool! Hi Scott <Hey!> I have been browsing through the FAQs on WetWebMedia regarding heating. From what I have read most of the advise given says that temp in a marine tank is fine up to 80deg Fahrenheit which is close to 30 degrees Celsius. <True> Is this true my tank is around 28degrees Celsius and probably around 30 with my lights on or on a very hot day. <On the high end of acceptable...> I am gonna be adding a fan or 2 but is temp up to 80 Fahrenheit ok? I need not worry too much if this is the case. Thanks Again Regards Ziad Limbada <Well, Ziad- I wouldn't be too concerned if the temperature hits 30 for short periods of time. If you're exceeding this temperature for extended periods, there is some cause for concern. It's important to maintain a high degree of oxygenation and water quality, as there is less margin for error at higher temperatures in closed systems. In the end, if you're obeying the rules of good aquarium husbandry, you should be fine if the temperature gets up there...Stay cool! Regards, Scott F.>

The Heat Is On! Hi Scott <Hi there!> Got another one for ya. <Ask away> My tanks temperature is extremely high I think it could be because of all the additional equipment that I have added as well as we currently in Summer in South Africa so it is rather warm. <Not fun, huh?> Their is normally not a lot of ventilation in my home during the day as we are not at home so the place is pretty locked up. My temp is currently sitting at 28 degrees Celsius and this is not even with my heater switched on. <I believe it...> I have tried leaving the hood of my tank open to allow some air to circulate. Have you got any ideas I mean 28 degrees without the heater is really hectic! I am thinking of running a fan over the tank to keep things cool but then I would have to run this 24/7 Please help Thanks Again Ziad <Well, Ziad- the idea of leaving the top open for ventilation, along with some strategically placed fans can help knock the temperature down a few degrees. Of course, the best solution is the most expensive (why is it always that way?)-a chiller. A properly sized chiller can do the trick with a minimum of hassle, but there is definitely expense involved in the purchase, setup, and operation of chillers; something to consider when investing in one. Hope this helps, but I think that it will lead you into another expensive direction, unfortunately! Regards, Scott F> Regards Ziad Limbada

The Heat is On (8/1/04) My god It's hot here. <Where?> For 3 days now its been up in the 35c and is great for swimming in the river and cooling off, too bad it isn't that easy for my fish. The temperature in my tank has been going through the roof! <How high?> A couple of times its been past 83 luckily my fish are fine. I've been trying to figure out how to cool it down, my heaters off there's 2 fans and a swamp cooler against it and I've been putting frozen bottles of water in. <Be careful not to shock your fish but dropping the temperature too much too fast.> Finally I get it down put its putting a lot of streets on my fish. <Yes, I would not stress them too much to get it down. Low 80s' should be OK.> The tank is a 55 gallon saltwater. I have zero dollars for a chiller and am leaving tomorrow for 4 days I'm worried about what will happen. the neighbor can only come once a day and I'm hoping that will be enough. He can put a few frozen bottles in if its too warm. Is there any other way I can cool down the tank that I can leave on all day? <Only a chiller. Fans are next best, but there will be a lot of evaporation for the neighbor to replace. Read more ideas here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chillersmar.htm> Thanks very much your site if very much a godsend and your dedication to these hobby is immense. Thank you, Tristan <It is a pleasure for me to play a small roll <<Heeee! RMF, who intends to play a jelly roll>> in this great venture. I hope this helps some. In the long runs, a chiller is your best bet. That or central air conditioning. Steve Allen.>

Chillin' Out (Is a Chiller Necessary for a Small Tank?) Hi There! <Scott F. here with you tonight.> Do I really need a chiller for a small 24" reef tank in my bedroom that very rarely gets to 24 degrees C? Some fishy people say I do. Others don't. I'm really confused about everything though now! <Confused?  About something in the marine hobby?  Really? hah! hah! Just kidding.  Seriously, unless you have a significant heat problem you could probably do a real good job by using a quality fan directly over the water surface.  A chiller may only be necessary in instances where your tank reaches high temperatures for sustained periods of time.> Anyway, do I need one. They're pretty expensive though and if I did need one could I do a DIY one with a fridge compressor and run the filaments through the tank? That is if even need one!! Thanks for your time anyway.  Bye, Ben <Well, Ben, quite honestly, as above, I only feel a chiller is necessary if you experience a heat problem.  Otherwise, save your money for fun stuff like salt mix, and activated carbon.  Good luck.  Regards, Scott F.>

Cooling Options Hello Experts, <Hi! Ryan Bowen with you today> I currently have a 30 gallon very healthy aquarium. <Great> Unfortunately, I reside in an apartment  which does not provide air conditioning. The room where the tank is located  will get into the 80's and even low 90's on a warm day. The complex will not allow us to alter the property for the convenience of cooling ourselves....or the fish aquarium. I currently run a consistent 76 degrees, but the temp slowly creeps to around the 80 degree mark and my understanding is that 82 is lethal. This is too close for my liking and surely the fish are a bit uncomfortable also. <Surely> I have priced coolers, which I did not know existed, and they are just too expensive to justify. I almost feel caught between a rock and hard place because I do not want 8 months of babysitting this tank to its present state to go for not and lose the battle to the heat. I need cost effective solution (if there is one) or any suggestion which may help prior to the upcoming summer heat. The tank takes no direct light and carries perfect chemical water composition. Its just the front of our building takes direct sun and heats the room where the tank  is. Can you advise or recommend a solution.....I care too much for the livestock and want to give the needed attention, but need advise from someone who knows. <There are lots of options here- But none of them better than a chiller.  Ice probe chillers are small, compact chillers that run about a hundred bucks a probe.  Each probe does 20 gallons.  Two of these, and a controller would be ideal, but if not, there are still more options.  Have you looked into a swamp cooler for the room?  They sit in your window, and would cool the whole room.  They do need a hookup to water, however.  For the tank, another simple thing that you can do is to fashion a clip on fan blowing horizontally across the surface of the water.  This helps to increase the exchange at the surface of the water.  If you know it's an especially hot day, you can float a frozen water bottle in the tank.  If you tank needs daily water-top-off, simply leave the top off the bottle, and it will slowly supply the aquarium with water.  Leave the lights off, and that's about it.  Hope this helps, Ryan> Thanks, Eddie

Evaporative cooling of a sump Hi crew, thanks for all the great advice.. this may be a question in thermodynamics,  but I bought a cheap fan from Home Depot which I have blowing directly down on my sump's water surface, and it has brought the temp of the tank down from  87 degrees to 84 degrees in a matter of a few hours. My question is, If I keep the fan on, will it continue to lower the tank temperature even more through evaporative cooling, even though the ambient room temperature is around 83 degrees,<< I would say no.  I don't see (and it has been a couple years since I've had a thermodynamic class) how it can cool the water below ambient room temperature.  The energy from the water has to go somewhere? >> or is it impossible to lower the water temp below that of the room temperature << I think even if it is possible, it would be very difficult. >> without the use of more expensive means... (it's a FOWLR tank, and no one seems affected by the high temps, though I know the inhabitants can't be comfortable)<< Obviously if you can, cooling the room temp by 10 degrees would make a big difference. That is what I would try to do. >> Thanks -Blair <<  Adam Blundell  >>

Keeping coldwater marines I am cycling a 55 gallon aquarium for local California coast marine  inverts. I am adding a chiller to keep the aquarium below 60. I am an avid scuba diver and will have no problem collecting what I want. I have researched the  laws and am wondering if the is and source of info for my cold water reef tank.   <Mmm, yes... the works by Dan Gotshall and Dave Wrobel should be in your use. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cold.htm and the Related FAQs (linked, in blue, above)> Last weekend my daughter and I collect live sand and ocean water from south of Point Lobos. In a month or so I will be ready to add animals. Can I add live ocean rocks with anemones and corals? Thx Mike   <Mmm, not to be disingenuous, but yes, if they're compatible... Bob Fenner> Lights getting water warm Sorry, I just wrote 5 minutes ago. I forgot one more thing. The new fluorescent lights are making my water temp go up to about 82...how do I keep it down?  Thanks, last time I'll bug you...I promise!  <Most of these fixtures come with a cooling fan built in, and even at that, if they are in an enclosed canopy without sufficient air inlet/outlet, water temps will elevate. If the fixture is just sitting on a glass top with nothing over it then I would take it back to the dealer and have him order you one with an enclosed fan such as Orbit or Current fixtures. James (Salty Dog)>

-A Real Chiller of A Question- Thanks for the reply <Certainly> I will still be purchasing 400 watt halides (the cost difference isn't a lot and I have more wattage to play with ). <Ok but please take extra time acclimating the corals and put all the lower light corals under overhangs or shady areas as they will bleach out possibly with such high lighting.> I will be buying a large room fan to get rid of the excess heat. I am also investigating making a DIY chiller as you suggest but not using an old fridge unit (far big a risk of water contamination re parts etc). <Hmm not really simply drill into the side of a fridge and run the tubing closed through a container with water in it then back out the side or the other side then to the sump. no contamination and far cheaper if you have one around. you can even keep drinks etc in it.> I will be looking at a tray of cool freshwater (regularly changed during top off) with blocked heat conductive piping of some sort into running through and back into the sump (simple effective and very very cheap). Here in the UK we only occasionally get big heat waves, so I am hoping the single large fan across the water surface will suffice for the short term. <Very possible, though those MH lights can really put out the heat. Do keep an eye on temperatures at first when the lights are moving to their final place and then when they are in final position to avoid any costly deaths and or losses of corals and fish.> Thanks for the info Jim <Hope this helps> <Justin (Jager)> 

Do I need a chiller? Hello WWM Crew, <Hello Anthony, James here> Thanks for answering my question 2 weeks ago about my first SW fish (True Percula).  He had a white spot - looked more like a small white-head pimple than ich - I've had my share of ich with fresh water tetras.  Anyway, it went away after I dipped her in Methylene Blue for 30 min.s or it could be the skunk cleaner shrimp that did the job.  Should I have dipped her or not???? <I'm sure the dip helped more than the cleaner shrimp.> Back to my question about chillers,  I have two 60 gal tanks in separate rooms which I plan to stock with at least 60 lbs of LR each. For now both would be fish only setups.  Anyway, I live in a part of Southern California where we only have at most 6 - 8 weeks of about 90 degree temps. Most of the chillers I've seen are for much bigger tanks.  Anyway, I mail ordered a Titan Thermoelectric 150-W Chiller ($250) that says it's good for 40 gals (I'm assuming they're referring to a reef setup). <No, they are just referring to 40 gallons of water in general.> Is this sufficient? <Most chillers come with charts that show how low it will cool versus ambient room temperature.  If you don't have such a chart, contact the manufacturer and ask.  Do I really need chillers or can I just set both tanks' heater to 78 and the apartment air conditioner to 80 degrees during the hottest part of our summer?  Assuming that the small chiller can cool down the tank by 4 degrees, I would still need 2 of them (another one for the other 60 gal tank - minimum $500 investment). I'm also sure that with the air off, the temp could reach as high as 88 degrees in my apartment unit. So I would still need to keep the air on or buy bigger chillers which would run me close to $900 for 2.  Don't you think it would be more economical to just keep the air on for 6 - 8 weeks of the year? <A boxer fan flowing across the water will help lower the tank temp also.  Myself, I would rather keep my A/C on than buy a chiller.  Chillers work like air conditioners.  At some time it will require a recharging of the coolant which can be expensive since Freon is no longer used.  James (Salty Dog)> Again thanks in advance, Anthony

Heat in new tank, too high tech.? 7/14/05 Hi reef folks. <Howdy> I have some questions regarding heat transfer in my newly set up reef (no sand or living creatures yet). The tank; 180 gal. with 70gal. sump and 40 gal. refugium. Main return pump is Ampmaster 2100 that feeds a manifold above the perimeter of the tank with six T's. The second pump is a Super Ampmaster 4500(3600gal/h) running a closed loop manifold on the back wall of the tank. The third pump an Iwaki 40 hooked up to the sump goes into the refugium. I was running the 2100 and the 4500 for over 24 hours and was not running any skimmer(2), reactor nor the lights. I was confused to see that the water seemed quite warm. I put digital heater in the tank to check the temperature. I was 78. Now, can a these pumps be the cause of this heat? <Oh yes> Does friction in the pipes induce this heat? <Minimally> My ambient temp was 66 and goes no more than 70 because I live in the fog belt of Daly City Ca. I realized that I am going to need a chiller that can handle 300 gal. combined tanks. <Maybe... I would first look into using cooling fans> Which chiller brand, size and lowest power consumption would you recommend? <Mmm, can we step back a bit first here? What is the rationale of using two good-sized pumps for two separate manifolds? You might want to look into just one, larger, cooler pump... my pick? A Sequence model...> What are the pros and cons with an In line versus coil type? <Coil types are more gimmicks than real... and ugly to look at to boot> On a different subject. My sump has quite a bit of flow coming thru and I would like to make it a refugium of some sorts. What would be the ideal medium or animals? <This is posted on WWM> I was thinking an NNR at best, live rocks O.K?. <Could... a DSB w/o rock would be better here> And finally, What is your take on motorized union ball valve (they are all plastic)? Are they reliable and can they be connected to a my Octopus controller? <... Not a good idea... too much likelihood of failure... "More biology, less technology" needed here... study for now. Bob Fenner>

Cooling a 24gal Nano Cube  9/11/05 Hey There'¦  I currently work at Pure Ocean Aquatics in Littleton, Colorado during school.  I decided to go ahead and get a 24gal Nano Cube (small, but fits in my room).  I plan to make it into a reef tank'¦ but I have a huge problem.  My room is over a garage in a house that isn't air conditioned.  My water temperature is reading at 86-88 degrees Fahrenheit. <Yikes...> So far, I've been keeping the lid open, and that helps a little (3-5 degrees), but then I can't have a light on the water (big problem if I want a reef tank). <I'd put the unit on a timer... run the lighting at night, not day> All I have in there so far is sand and cured live rock, so no big hurry.  I want to know if a 'Cool Works IceProbe Micro 50W Chiller' is a decent product, <Some folks state so> and if I have any other options.  Also, I need to know how hard it is to set up, and if I should even bother drilling into the glass if I were to get an internal chiller, and so on.  I got a tank knowing water care, and fish, but I underestimated the temperature problem. Sincerely, Ben <Mmm, if you use a chiller for this tank, best to hang the plumbing lines over the side... Try changing the light cycle for a few weeks, and monitor the temperature... cooler weather is coming. Bob Fenner> Chillers  12/15/05 Hi I have a question about my 250 gallon marine {fish only} aquarium. it's stocked with a Queen angel, lion fish, Foxface, yellow tang, emperor angel and yes the two angels get along just fine lucky. The tank has been running for 4 yr.s with no problems. Now it's a sealed acrylic tank with a canopy top.. So no water evaporation.. And the sump is also sealed with a cover. Now I have one large pump outside in a shed running the hole system. I have two 40 aqua UV sterilizers. And a good skimmer.. The temperature in the shed is about 50 f degrees in the winter.. Very well vented.. now finally my question. Why do I have to use a chiller all year long. The temp in the tank just climbs when I shut it off I never let it go all the way up I got scared. I live in New York and now its 15 f degrees outside and the chillers is on ... Also I use regular lighting and only when I view the aquarium maybe 6 hrs a day... Any suggestions on how I could shut the chiller off and save some money. Also how high can the temp in the tank go without harm. I also now maintain a temp of 80 f degrees with a 2 degree diff... Thank you so much I love your website...  Jimmy --jamgabby <... you need to look for other sources of heat introduction... likely pump/s... possibly powerheads, and look for less energy wasting/producing models/makes... Bob Fenner>

Lighting raising tank temperatures   3/4/06 Also, my Compact lighting 4X 96watt set right on the glass. Would it help to get some legs to raise it about three inches above the glass? <Yes> Will small fans help with the lights either right on the glass or raised above it about three inches? <Best to blow under the lights.> Bob, <James today> I have my heater set to 78F on my reef tank but my tank stays very consistently between 79.5F and 81.5F. Is this (81.5F) a problem? <The temperature swings are more of a problem, but in your case a 2 degree swing isn't too bad.  I'd try to cool those lights down or adjust your heater to 80 degrees to minimize the temperature swing.> Room temp stays between 67F and 72F. 135ga. tank Compact lighting 4X 96watt and 2X 30Watt 18Watt UV Wet/ Dry pump (2) power heads Thanks, <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Kent Night Time lights ?    6/26/06 greetings, hope that all is good. the website is amazing to say the least, I spend a lot of my "spare" time at work just reading and learning, thank you for the wonderful resource! So on to the fun....... its summer here in sunny San Diego, <Oh! I live here as well> and my SW reef is starting to get to that dangerous temp level......got up to 82.9 today before I realized and tuned on the air conditioner....here's my question, I have read a few times on the website that running the lights at night when its cooler can keep the temp in check <Can definitely help, yes> (I am running fans), but I have a fairly bright room during the day. The tank doesn't get direct sunlight per se, but normal daylight. Will my fish take on their normal "night time" activities, sleep etc. with a day light room, and hood lights off? <Mmm, not so much no... better to use timers, dimmers even if moving the light cycle further into the night> .....or do I need to cover the tank during the day to keep it dark in the tank ? <I would not do this last> second....if I do switch the system to lights on at night, do I need to slowly phase the lights a few hours each day/week..... or just suddenly make the switch? <Best to move gradually> Thank you in advance for your advice, and once again thank you for the service to the hobby. <Welcome. Bob Fenner, in Mira Mesa... aka "East" La Jolla...>

- Do you think I will need a chiller? 6/16/06 - Hello WetWebMedia Crew, <Hello.> Thank you for taking the time to look at my e-mail.  I am planning on upgrading the lighting on my 75 gallon reef tank (48" x 18" x 21").  The reef tank also has a downstream refugium that holds roughly 15 gallons.  At the moment, I have a 260 watt Odyssea power compact fixture on the display and a 130 watt Odyssea power compact fixture on the refuge.  I also have a heaters in both the display and the refuge that were bought to match their respective sizes, but I cannot remember their exact wattage.  I realize the heater in the refuge is unnecessary but I was having flow problems and have yet to take it out... I also have an Eheim 1260 (634gph, 65watts) pump for circulation in the display and an Eheim 1250 (320gph, 28watts) pump running the refugium and display.  A mag drive 3 (350gph, 35watts) pump runs my Remora Pro protein skimmer. I found a 48" Maristar fixture by sunlight supply that has 2 150 watt HQI bulbs and 2 54 watt T5 bulbs.  This light was discontinued but they still make it custom ordered.  The temperature in my reef is about 77 degrees with the room temperature being 72 degrees. Based on your experience with similar setups, do you guys think I will need a chiller.  Any advice you can give me is appreciated. <Hard to say for certain as even two identical set-ups really aren't identical once they go to someone's home. It really depends on the temperature you want to keep the tank. Without a doubt, it's not going to stay at 77 F, but it may only go up to 79/80 F - is that ok with you? Can you be certain it won't go higher? If you want to improve your margin for error, you may want that chiller anyway.> Thanks, Tim <Cheers, J -- >

Trying to Keep Cool!!   8/2/06 Hi Crew !!! <Hi Janice, Leslie in for the crew this warm and muggy afternoon.> Just a quick question.<Sure> I wanted to know what is the best way to keep my 90 gal salt water tank cool on these really hot days? We have a fan going and an air conditioner. The temp. is about 88. <I am not sure what temp is 88'¦. Inside, outside or your tank. I am assuming you mean your tank, but hoping not. No matter'¦.. other than a chiller there are a few little tricks I use. If you can get hold of 2 to 4 clip on electric fans, you may be able to get your tank down 2 to 4 degrees. They work pretty well.  Clip them on the rim of the tank so the air blows across the water surface. If you can adjust them so they cause the surface of the water to ripple a bit even better. This will increase evaporation and require more frequent top offs. You can also fill a few empty 2 liter soda or water bottles (the type with plastic caps) with dechlorinated tap water, freeze them and place in the tank one at a time. Rotate them as they melt. Decreasing the photoperiod if possible depending on your inhabitants is also an option.> Things just don't look so good. <Yes I know this heat wave is a bad one.> I really appreciate the help. Thanks Janice <Best of luck keeping cool. Your most welcome, Leslie>

Another Idea for Cooling Your Tank in the Summer - 07/22/06 First, please accept my admiration and thanks for the time and effort you all put into this site for the benefit of all aquarists and our charges. <<Thank you...gratifying to hear>> It's July in Georgia and it's hot, very hot! <<Indeed!>> I have a 120 gallon reef tank in my den since January 1, 2006.  Temperature was not a problem in the winter or spring, however, even without a heater, to my horror, the temperature crept up to 86 degrees.  I was afraid I'd have 120 gallons of fish soup.  A chiller for this tank was not feasible financially for me right now so I bought a window air conditioner unit for the room. <<Mmm, yes...and likely at a quarter the cost of a chiller>> The directions tell you how many BTUs it should be for the size of the room, directional facing and number of people who usually inhabit the room.  We added 4 extra people to account for the tank and to determine the adequate size to purchase. <<Wise/intuitive of you>> It took 4 days, but the temperature of the tank has lowered to an acceptable 78.5 degrees and has been consistent for the 3 weeks it's been running. <<Outstanding!>> That $159.00 has been the best investment I've made and much more affordable for me at this point than a chiller. <<Agreed...and I'll bet the room is more comfortable to the "human" inhabitants too! This may be a more viable solution to high temperature readings and easier on the wallet for other people as well. <<Likely so...though as I'm sure you are aware...this solution too may not be feasible for everyone>> I realize this may not work for huge hundreds of gallon tanks but I hope this information will be of benefit to those with somewhat smaller tanks. <<Ah, yes...another avenue to investigate at the least...and maybe even for "huge" tanks, where the sumps/ancillary systems are congregated in a small dedicated room where the ambient temperature could be easily lowered with a small air-conditioner...similar to what goes on in a computer server room>> Susan in "hot'lanta" <<EricR, just northward in steamy Columbia>> Tank Temp  8/23/06 Hi Crew,    <Hey there>   Thanks for the great site.  I have a rather unusual problem in that my 20g aquarium maintains an 86 degree temperature without the heater being plugged into an outlet.  I have 2 percula clowns and yellow and domino damsel that I am afraid of losing if  the problem persists.   <I've had the same problem in my smaller tanks too.  Its something you really have to be careful of in the smaller system tanks.  The lighting required to keep corals really heats things up.>       Tank specifications:         water quality tests well      25lbs of live rock      100 SeaClone skimmer      150 penguin filter      power head      regular lighting that came with the tank (one fluorescent bulb)   This has just become a problem after I installed my SeaClone skimmer and I was curious if there was to much going on in the tank.  Should I invest in a chiller? Thank you for any help that you can provide. <I don't really see how your skimmer is all of a sudden causing this problem.  Its more than likely the lingering heat across the country.  To tell you the truth unless you have the few hundred lying around dying to be spent I wouldn't buy a chiller for that size tank.  I would invest in some venting fans - install some under the hood.  (Actually, if you ever want to get corals or any light loving inverts - you should also invest in more lighting, which could possibly come with some fans.)  Also, you can add a refugium - extra water volume will not only help you with you temp problem but will make water quality MUCH easier to keep up.  Do some searching on WWM re: heat issues.  Good luck!  Jen S.>         Regards,       John

Coral greenhouse in the tropics?  - 09/14/06 Dear Bob and WWM crew, <Alan> I am thinking of setting up a coral greenhouse in my region (south east Asia) to propagate corals. I was thinking of having like 18 of 6ft X 2/3ft fiberglass tubs as holding tanks. I skimmed through the articles in your site about coral propagation. My concern regarding using natural sunlight would be the high temps as its hot all year round in my country and in a green house its certainly not gonna fall within acceptable range. And using chillers to chill all the tanks wouldn't be economical in the long run either. Is there anyway I can solve the heat problem through the design of the green house? Any input is appreciated. Thanks. <Mmm... I would look into lowest expense, most appropriate technology for cooling the system water (likely storing a good deal/percentage of volume underground, evaporative cooling... or pumping it from the sea...) along with passive air-circulating methods to keep all "about right" here. Bob Fenner> Tank cooling prob.s  9/29/06 Late summer I attempted my first marine tank setup. Good idea, but bad move due to the results I received as far as temperature is concerned. Ambient air temperature inside my house where I live during summer exceed 30 degrees centigrade for periods exceeding a week. This caused my tank to absorb this heat and reach a temperature that averaged out to about 32 degrees centigrade. I have a main display tank (300 litres) connected to a refugium (100 litres) and a wet/dry sump (50 litres). Without lights running and with lids off all tanks and just one external pump, I reached the 32 degree centigrade minimum water temp I get during summer. (90 F. thereabouts... too warm> I tried directing fans onto the water surface to employ latent heat removal. This was not a practical result as I dropped my water temp only by half a degree and ended up with high evaporation rates and heaps of salt spray and creep. Humidity during summer is quite high (average 75+ percent) where I live and latent heat removal did not employ good results. I researched direct water cooling methods such as refrigeration, ice cubes and cold water replacement. I am basically a lazy bum which left the refrigeration of my tank water as the only solution to my problem. I am not rich either...I made my tank stand and hood from wood I got from the local rubbish dump ( I also get my pumps from there). I purchased my two metal halides -complete- for 16 Ozzy dollars each from the local recycler shop: might I add here that the cheapest LFS up here wants 270 Ozzy bucks just for one and the local electrical supplier is much the same. I even get my fish and live rock LEGALLY from the ocean, as I live in the tropics next to the Great Barrier Reef. Water heating during winter should I need it, is done by throwing black irrigation piping on my house roof during the day and running a by-pass from my tank pump to a solenoid and temperature sensor etc that is attached to this black irrigation tubing to save power on heating water both in my tank and in weekly water changes...my solenoids etc are run by solar power, solar panels I got from solar powered garden lights from the dump. <Mmm, you could do something like this for cooling... by drilling too holes in the house esky/fridge to yanks, and running a length of tubing, immerging it in a water bath in the fridge... for heat exchange> Back to cooling by refrigeration, I used a bar fridge (purchased from local dump) that was gutted and had the cooling element sitting in my sump. I was able to drop the water temperature of 450 litres by three degrees to sit on 29 degrees centigrade. I actually would like to reach 27 degrees centigrade as the ocean water I get my fish from etc is at that temp. My little critters such as crabs and teeny weenie anemones were all happy at this temperature until they get cooked after a few days. (when I go to the ocean to get live stuff, I get sea water and flush my tank with it). Now the problem I had, was that the fridge was running all the time and a large pedestal fan was needed to help cool the element and stop the condenser from overheating. <Too much electrical consumption, expense here... Use the more efficient house unit if it can be practically located near by> Not good for my power bill and standards for doing things on the cheap. <Bingo> Now I have a question ... would gutting a freezer this time round - instead of a bar fridge- be able to cool 450 litres of water by 4 degrees centigrade? <Yes... as would a simple fridge with the coils set in a water bath there...> Assume that the air temp is sitting constantly at 32 degrees centigrade and there exist no other heat inputs. Would my freezer motor thingy be running non-stop? <Might work pretty much full time during the heat of the day, yes> Would you be able to point me to some really verbose links regarding cooling water by refrigeration...maybe I missed some you know about. <I understand you perfectly. I'd go the fridge, holes, bath-coil route m'self. Cheers, BobF>

Temperature Control Bob I might have a problem. I have set this tank up and I have been letting it run for a couple of days. I am getting ready to put the rock in tonight. I checked the temp in the old tank that I am letting the live rock sit in until I have the big tank ready and the temp read 84 degrees. I checked the big tank and it is running 82 without any lights on it. Am I going to need a chiller and if so what would you recommend for a 46 gal.  <Maybe... but first read through the "Chiller FAQs" posted on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com> If at all possible I do not want to spend a ton of money on it. Thank You for your help and if it is not a problem I am sure I will be talking to you again. <It may well be that you can use "other technologies", approaches in keeping your systems water about right temp. wise. Read the section and we'll chat. Bob Fenner> Jason

Questions about Reef Lighting and Chillers hello Mr. Fenner, <<JasonC here, one of Bob's "associates">> I am brand new to the hobby of reef keeping and trying to educate myself. I know you are diving right now, but I hope one of your associates could answer my question. I have a 58 gal. tank with one power compact strip on it with two 96 watt bulbs-one blue and one white. I have been told by my local coral store owner that it is a little underpowered. I do have leathers, mushroom, and polyps in the tank now , but I only started this one week ago. What is the ideal lighting guidelines for power compacts? <<should be fine for your tank, sounds like perhaps that store is trying to shake some more money out of your pockets. As far as guidelines for power-compacts... well, it's really amount of light applied to the tank, not the type of bulb one uses - this is the nut to crack. Do give the following link and subsequent FAQs a read-through: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lighting.htm >> Secondly, my tank runs about 80-82 degrees, I was also told to start saving for a chiller, what are the parameter to know you need a chiller? <<parameters for a chiller? Live in the desert, already bought all the spare pumps you need, aching for something to spend your money on. Chillers are expensive and really should be saved for a problem you can't solve any other way - like with a simple fan blowing across the top of the tank. Here's another link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chillersmar.htm >> grabmayer <<Cheers, J -->>

Chiller, lighting, and sea urchin question! <<Greetings, Kevin, JasonC here... >> My tank is about 80-82 degrees and I was thinking I need to get a chiller or maybe some cooler lights cooler lighting unit). <<80-82 isn't really out of hand compared to conditions in the wild.>> I have a 150g tank with 2 fluorescent hoods and they don't have any ventilation. Can I get a good light that has ventilation? <<Why not do a retro-fit and add some ventilation, fans, etc?>> I was looking at the power compact lights, any ideas on those kind or any other kinds of lights, I need something soon! <<All lamps produce heat, it cannot be avoided.>> Is a chiller necessary to reduce my tank temperature just a couple degrees, they're very expensive, but in case I do get one, do you recommend one? <<I don't generally recommend chillers unless you live in a desert or are attempting to do a low-temp system; something less than 75F. Usually a one or two degree pull-down can be easily accomplished with one or more fans blowing over the surface of the tank to produce evaporative cooling, or placed in the light hood to evacuate the warm air.>> I liked the idea of the coil that sat in the sump! <<Honestly, those are a very poor design and not worth the money.>> And lastly, I have a sea urchin that I've had for a couple years and he's losing his spines. I've heard that when this happens it means they are going to die and they should be removed from the tank. <<certainly a sign of declining health.>> He only has the bottom half of him that have the spines! What should I do? <<Perhaps crush it and feed it to the fish if you have triggers or wrasses, or just toss it out.>> Thanks for all your helpful advice you always give me, you're the best! -Kevin <<Cheers, J -- >>

Heat/Chiller Hi Guys <<Hi.>> Once again I seek your advice. I have written earlier about the temperature problems in my 110 gallon fish only system. I am running an Iwaki external pump and two power heads in the sump (one for the Euro-reef skimmer and the other for the U.V.) My problem remains in that my water temps are going up to 83* this after following your advice to replace the glass canopy with egg crate, putting an exhaust fan in the hood and running a clip on fan aimed at the sump. I keep the house between 75-79* but cannot keep the water temperature down. I even unplugged the heater "just in case." <<Well, I can relate my own experience... I had a 54g corner tank with a 150w metal halide, in my bedroom on the second floor of my house. I live in a valley and in the Summer, we often get temperature inversions in conjunction with the smog blowing up from New York city and this creates stifling, hot and humid days. That tank could easily get to 88-90 degrees in the dead of summer. I tried fans all over the place but could never get the heat down... the problem, I wasn't actually getting rid of the heat, I was just moving it around as hot air. My solution was to run a window air conditioner.>> I think that the only real solution appears to be a chiller. (please correct me if I'm wrong) I do not have the room inside of the stand so I will have to place the chiller next to the stand. Since this is in the living room I don't think that I want to use the inline models (appearance plus potential of water leaks). What's your feelings on the Aqualogic and or CSL drop in models? If I go this route, is the Medusa controller worth the upcharge over the Aqualogic. <<Well... keep in mind the previous little ditty, if the unit sits in a hot living room, all the while creating heat, you may find it running more than you'd expect. That being said, drop-in units are less efficient that their flow-through cousins... but they do work. If it were my money, I'd forego the 'looks' in the living room - this is only for the summer, yes? - and do a flow through unit with a dedicated pump you can place in the sump. The electronic thermostats are more precise, but obviously adds to the cost. Your call on that.>> I await your counsel as you have been dead on in your suggestions on other products that I have purchased. Thanks once again, Joe <<Cheers, J -- >>

Temperate Starfish... is it warm in here? Hi Bob, 11 days ago I found a star fish at Myrtle Beach.  <I am very sorry to hear it...seriously> It traveled home and I have setup a tank for her. She seems to be doing fine. I would like to know what she is and how to take care of her. She's gray on top with teeth like spines all round her arms. They are reddish at the base and white on the tips. She is peach and orange underneath. I also brought sand and shells from her beach to setup my tank with. She likes to bury herself under the sand. This morning I found her completely on the glass, which to me is a social improvement. Please help me if you can, or at least point me in the right direction. Thank you so much, Tammy Shilling <my friend... this is a temperate species that will suffer and die in time if not provided with chilled water. Even room temperature is too warm for year around maintenance. And a tank without a heater will allow temperature fluctuations that are even more stressful between night and day. I'm sorry to be a buzz kill, but such animals belong in the ocean if they cannot be provided for adequately in captivity. Temperate species need refrigeration units (chillers) that cost nearly $1000 for hobbyists models. Without it, your starfish will hang in there for some months perhaps. Over a year in rare cases. My advice is to find a local public aquarium that will take it in assuming they have temperate species displays. Best regards, Anthony>

More on summer cooling - 3/25/03 The only problem with your suggestion is that I don't have any need to use heaters in the summer where I live. <Oh. Whoops! Okay, then I would not worry about it. If it gets higher than 82 degrees then I would blow fans over the surface of the water or even tank in general>  The heaters are set on 77 degrees now but they never come on due to the fact that the water temp is always steady at 80 - 81.5 degrees. <Got it.>  The house temp stays at about 72 degrees even! <Nice> I guess the temp is that high due to our VHO lighting, MAG 12 pump, etc.????? <My thoughts exactly. Direct a fan or two on the tank just to circulate the cooler ambient house temp around the tank and also move the heat from the VHO hood. Hopefully that will help. Check this out as well if you haven't already: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/heatingf.htm Thanks again for your patience and help. <My pleasure, Elizabeth. Paulo> Elizabeth

Cooling Hi Crew, I don't have a question today, more of an opinion which I would like your comments on.  I have read in a lot of places about chillers not being necessary and than fans will do the job of cooling. <Within "reason", many circumstances, yes>   Here is my setup and situation.  I have a 90G acrylic reef tank that will house mostly SPS corals and some clams.  I am using two 250W 10,000K bulbs.  I went with these over the 175W because I didn't want to be limited to the top half of the tank for things like clams.  The canopy has about 12 inches of height in it, the lights are about 10 inches from the water surface.  I have one 4 inch fan blowing over the right side of the tank and another fan on the opposite side drawing out the air.  The back of the canopy is open.  I have a 30G sump below.  Since I need a lot of flow, I started out with 2 Iwaki MD40RLXT's, one for the sump return, the other for closed loop circulation.  They turned out to be too loud for a living room setting, so I replaced the sump return Iwaki with a Velocity T4, kept the other Iwaki for the closed loop.  I would be willing to bet that the Velocity is one of the quietest pumps out there.  It makes my wife very happy!  Problem is that it produces A LOT of heat.  I also have a Rio 2100 pump in the sump running my Aqua C EV-120, another pretty big heat producer.  I have two 3/4 Sea Swirls at the ends of the sump return lines which I imagine produce some heat as well.  Beyond this, all else is pretty standard.  No excessive 90 degree elbows, etc.  Our house has central air, thermostat set to 80 degrees.  With fans blowing over the top of the tank, cover off of the sump, ambient room temperature of 78 degrees, the tank temperature is at 86 degrees.  I suppose I could run two more fans in the canopy, but the amount of evaporation would not be worth it.  I don't have any sort of auto top off device, too difficult where it is located.  It would probably have a detrimental effect on my specific gravity.  Plus, since it is a standard acrylic tank, the openings on the top are not very big, so blowing the fans across the top helps cool it down, but in turn, covers the top with salt.  Then my lights become less effective, to much crud on the top of the tank.  I can run a fan over the sump, but I don't think this well help too much, plus back to having too much water evaporating. <Worth trying though> The rear of the stand is completely open, so it doesn't get warm in there at all. I can blow a fan over the Velocity pump, I have read that somewhere, but I don't believe it will help that much.  The room temp is 78, still have another couple of degrees to go before the AC kicks in.  So in my case, I didn't see any other solution than using a chiller.  Now I don't have any worries about the salinity level changing drastically.  I put covers over the tank top openings so the canopy fans remove the heat from the lights, but doesn't get salt all over the place.  The JBJ Arctica chiller is pretty quiet and only runs about 15 minutes every few hours, so it is not too bad.  But without the chiller, I don't think the tank would ever drop below 84 degrees which is still a bit high.  What are your opinions? Hope you are having a good Memorial Weekend Paul <Thank you. I do think your system is a good candidate for a chiller. The mid-eighties can be a dangerous place if "something goes wrong". I also encourage you to look into a top-off device... some simple "float valves" can be attached to the sump wall and serviced by pressurized water from a distal location. Bob Fenner>

Chillers Hi Crew,<IanB here tonight> I don't have a question today, more of an opinion which I would like your comments on.  I have read in a lot of places about chillers not being necessary and than fans will do the job of cooling.  Here is my setup and situation.  I have a 90G acrylic reef tank that will house mostly SPS corals and some clams.  I am using two 250W 10,000K bulbs.  I went with these over the 175W because I didn't want to be limited to the top half of the tank for things like clams.  The canopy has about 12 inches of height in it, the lights are about 10 inches from the water surface.  I have one 4 inch fan blowing over the right side of the tank and another fan on the opposite side drawing out the air.  The back of the canopy is open.  I have a 30G sump below.  Since I need a lot of flow, I started out with 2 Iwaki MD40RLXT's, one for the sump return, the other for closed loop circulation.  They turned out to be too loud for a living room setting, so I replaced the sump return Iwaki with a Velocity T4, kept the other Iwaki for the closed loop.  I would be willing to bet that the Velocity is one of the quietest pumps out there.<very quiet indeed>  It makes my wife very happy!  Problem is that it produces A LOT of heat.<for everything good there is always a drawback>  I also have a Rio 2100 pump in the sump running my Aqua C EV-120, another pretty big heat producer. <yea>  I have two 3/4 Sea Swirls at the ends of the sump return lines which I imagine produce some heat as well.<to some extent>  Beyond this, all else is pretty standard.  No excessive 90 degree elbows,<good> etc.  Our house has central air, thermostat set to 80 degrees.  With fans blowing over the top of the tank, cover off of the sump, ambient room temperature of 78 degrees, the tank temperature is at 86 degrees.  I suppose I could run two more fans in the canopy, but the amount of evaporation would not be worth it.  I don't have any sort of auto top off device, too difficult where it is located.  It would probably have a detrimental effect on my specific gravity.  Plus, since it is a standard acrylic tank, the openings on the top are not very big, so blowing the fans across the top helps cool it down, but in turn, covers the top with salt.<that can be a problem>  Then my lights become less effective, to much crud on the top of the tank.  I can run a fan over the sump, but I don't think this well help too much, plus back to having too much water evaporating.  The rear of the stand is completely open, so it doesn't get warm in there at all. I can blow a fan over the Velocity pump, I have read that somewhere, but I don't believe it will help that much.<don't think so either>  The room temp is 78, still have another couple of degrees to go before the AC kicks in.  So in my case, I didn't see any other solution than using a chiller.  Now I don't have any worries about the salinity level changing drastically.  I put covers over the tank top openings so the canopy fans remove the heat from the lights, but doesn't get salt all over the place.  The JBJ Arctica chiller is pretty quiet and only runs about 15 minutes every few hours, so it is not too bad.  But without the chiller, I don't think the tank would ever drop below 84 degrees which is still a bit high.  What are your opinions? <I too doubt the temperature in the aquarium will drop below 84 degrees (and you need a temperature around 78-80 degrees), I would purchase the chiller (better safe than sorry). I am enclosing a link that might help you  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chillersmar.htm  good luck with the chiller, and aquarium, IanB> Hope you are having a good Memorial Weekend, Paul

- Chiller Selection - Hello to all the fine folks at the CREW. <Hello to you, JasonC here...> I searched the archives buy I couldn't find an answer to my question about chillers.  I have the opportunity to buy a brand new 1/4 hp Via Aqua flow thru chiller on an online forum for a ridiculously low price and I am curious if any of you are familiar with the Via Aqua brand of chillers? <I am familiar but have never used one.> I have a total system volume of 240 gallons in my two reef tanks combined.  I don't particularly need a chiller at the moment because I have central A/C but in case I do need to have a chiller I thought maybe I should buy one of these chillers just in case. <If you don't "need" one, I wouldn't spend the money - often times you can do an effective amount of cooling by running a fan over the surface of the water, either in the sump or the tank - is evaporative cooling and works quite well.> Do any of you folks think these are good chillers and would one of this size/type be able to bring my system temp down a few degrees if I needed to use one in a pinch at some point in the future? <Again, for only a few degrees... I'd use a fan. If you wanted a cool marine system, that would be a different story, or if your house didn't have air conditioning...> Are they reliable and trustworthy? <More importantly... what kind of condition is it in, being used and all... I wouldn't buy a used chiller.> All the other brands are ridiculously expensive and I can get this one $300-$400 cheaper than anywhere else and it's brand new. <Hmm... if it's not used, then perhaps a good value, but I'm still in favor of fans unless you have heating problems you can't get around any other way.> Any thoughts on this? <Well... I am always suspect of deals that are too god to be true, and the Via Aqua chillers are priced below much of their competition. Do keep in mind that more often than not, you get what you pay for.> All input is gratefully appreciated.  Thanks again, Jeff <Cheers, J -- >

Temperature control I'm having a problem keeping my 55 gallon tank cool.  Its summertime and I don't have central a/c in my house. Currently I'm putting one liter bottles filled with water and letting them freeze then putting them in my tank to bring the water temperature down.  But it goes right back up to 80* in no time. Do you have suggestions on trying to keep the water cool are there any good water chillers out there??  Would you recommend having a chiller?  I also have a fan blowing on the tank but it runs all day I'd rather have a chiller and let that run than the fan all day.  Thank you again for your time. <Hi Scott, Don here today. You don't say what type/size of tank this is, so the following assumes were are discussing a marine setup. Actually, 80F is not that bad of temp. If you can keep it around this, I think you are OK. If you look into a chiller, look into the type that uses a pump to run the water through the unit rather than a remote coil that goes into the tank. Be warned that running a chiller is like having a small air conditioner in your fish room. They can generate a bunch of heat themselves. I would think that it would be almost as affective and maybe about the same cost to put a small window air conditioner in the room if you can. Good luck.> Scott