Table of symbiotic relationship is unclear to me. Clowns...   8/18/09
Could the table at the bottom of
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm
be clarified to indicate clearly that "X" means it does host or does not host?
<"X" indicates the species have been found in the wild to be (naturally) symbiotic>
I am not sure whether the X is good or bad for a particular pairing.
Thanks
Joe
<Which does not mean that they will for sure automatically associate in captivity, nor that pairs not found in such relationships in the wild will not form such bonds in aquarium settings... Read on further on WWM re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Clown_anemone/Clown_anemone.htm
and the linked files at bottom. Bob Fenner>

clownfish/clam/carpet anemone, hosting – 08/14/09
First of all, GREAT SITE!!! I have had my tank going less than 3 months now and I have spent countless hours reading articles and FAQs.
<Ah, good>
I have a couple of problems and I have searched pretty thoroughly for answers but I still need some advice.
<"Fire away">
My first problem is that I made a rookie mistake of listening to a "salesman" at the LFS. I now have a carpet anemone which was a mistake for several obvious reasons as you know (tank not being established long enough for starters). My tank is 130 gallon with closed loop circulation and 145 lbs of live rock, 3 1/2 inch sandbed, refugium, 2x 250w 14k metal halide lights and everything seems to be going very well. Since cycling I have yet to have any detectable nitrate and haven't lost any livestock. I have a sohal tang, powder brown tang, 5 damsels, coral banded shrimp, peppermint shrimp, 5 hermits, various snails, sand-sifting star and serpent star, Vanuatu clam and the above mentioned carpet and a maroon clown.
I intend to make this a reef tank. I have no plans to add many more fish and I may try to trap and give away the damsels. I want to have a few fish and lots of inverts and corals. I do have a few mushroom corals that are doing well also although I plan to wait several more months before adding more corals. So getting to my dilemma. The anemone seems to be doing well.
With everything I have read he seems to have what he needs and be in an ideal location. I put him in a corner that gets good light and medium flow. He was able to put his foot in a rock crevice and he hasn't moved from where I placed him. I am concerned that one he could eat my fish.
<Mmm, the Maroon will likely "steer" such fishes away... Oh, I see it's in the tridacnid... Well, most fish are well-aware of anemones...>
2 he can get potentially very big. Theoretically if he is happy where he is he could stay in the tank just fine and not bother anyone. He is out of the way and I can place my corals in many other areas. If i didn't overfeed he could occupy that corner happily for a long time without getting too big. Is this realistic?
<A possibility>
Too much to hope for? Bottom line, should I remove the anemone and give him away or take him back to the LFS even if I don't get a refund? Or should observe and hope?
<I'd likely do the last>
2nd problem. My clown is hosting in the clam instead of the anemone.
<Happens>
I moved the clam as close as I felt safe to the anemone in hopes the clown might switch. So far the fish hasn't been mean to the clam and oddly the clam rarely tries to close up even when the clown really tries to
nestle in. The clam always reacts when other fish get too close but so far the clown doesn't seem to bother him. Is there a way to discourage the clown from trying to host the clam and do I even need to worry about it?
<Not really on both counts>
I don't want the clown to accidentally kill the clam.
Thanks in advance and sorry for the long question.
Dan
<Glad to share. Bob Fenner>

Pink Skunk Clownfish Hosting In Goniopora – 08/11/09
Hi there,
<<Hey Jeanne!>>
I hope I can be brief (unlikely, but I can hope!).
<<Hee-hee!>>
Despite a lovely Sebae anemone in my 66 gallon reef, my two aqua-cultured pink skunk clownfish have decided on my Goniopora.
<<Does sometimes happen…often to this coral’s demise>>
Although I have heard of this working out for others,
<<Mmm, not in the long term…this coral is difficult to keep at best…the added “irritation” from the Clownfish can only exacerbate the situation>>
so far not so good. The coral is definitely irritated.
<<Indeed>>
Wilkerson's Clownfishes states that a clownfish will choose a Goniopora over even the "right" anemone and you can have a Goniopora or a clownfish but not both.
<<Yes>>
Of course the suggestion (there and on your site) is to get rid of the (dicey) Goniopora, but with 17 years of experience now and a tank designed for keeping corals, I would like to give it a try.
<<Then it would seem the Clownfish will have to go>>
So, I have read over your site and realize there are a variety of opinions here,
<<Many such>>
but is there any consensus?
<<You tell me>>
Is it the coral or the fish?
<<Logic would dictate that if you wish to “keep” the coral, then the fish (Clownfish) will have to go>>
If I remove the clownfish, should I remove the anemone as well?
<<Ideally…yes. It is best to keep such motile invertebrates in systems designed just for them>>
(I wish I could move them to another tank, but I have maroons and Perculas in my other tanks.)
<<Sounds like you have that excuse for another tank [grin]>>
Thank you for your time and patience.
<<A pleasure to share>>
Jeanne Brown
<<Eric Russell>>

Re: Pink Skunk Clownfish Hosting In Goniopora – 08/13/09
Dear Eric,
<<Hello Jeanne>>
Thank you very much for your prompt response.
<<You are most welcome>>
It is sometimes difficult to create proper inflection in e-mails.
<<I heartily agree… Our sometimes seemingly terse responses can often be put down to this very limited medium>>
I didn't mean is it the coral or the fish--which do I choose--I meant, I guess, do I HAVE to decide BETWEEN the coral or the fish, I mean, does one of the two have to go
<<Ah, I see>>
.....but it appears you answered that anyway.
<<Indeed… The “stress” from the attentions of the/any Clownfish most always causes these corals to not fully extend polyps to feed/shed metabolites…and the “rubbing” from the fish may even cause tissue damage opening the way to bacterial infection. There are always exceptions, but odds are continued cohabitation will cause the demise of this difficult to keep coral specimen>>
I get the strong sense they won't give up the flower pot now. Thanks again.
<<Always welcome… EricR>>

Clownfish / Anemone changes  7/21/09
<Good morning.>
I have had two Percula clownfish for about four years know, they started out in a 33 gallon tank with a bubble tip anemone that they have lived with since about a year ago I decided to move the clown's and anemone into my 75 gallon tank which was a fish only tank, with live rock, a protein skimmer, and a refugium setup. Of course I increased the lighting also, but recently I noticed that one of the two anemones started to move around, I say two because the other one split. My question is, will these clownfish do okay
without an anemone after all this time being with an anemone.
<Yes they will.>
I am concerned that the anemone will sting my golden angel, or my leopard wrasse, and these fish have been in the tank for over a year.
<This anemone likely won't be a threat to either of those fish.>
So I thought I would either remove the anemone or give the clowns to my uncle without the anemone, he has a 58 gallon reef tank with soft coral's.
<The clowns will be fine with the anemone, but without knowing the parameters of your aquarium, I can't say that the anemone will do well in this fish only tank. The anemone splitting and wandering is likely the
result of stress.>
Thanks,
Ron
<Your welcome.
Josh Solomon.>

Duncans and Clowns, 5/15/09
Hello Crew,
<Hi>
I have a pair of Picasso Clowns and a large colony of Duncans in my tank. Clowns recently ditched their RBTA for the Duncans and beat them up to the point where they only open about half way.
<Happens.>
They refuse to leave them even when RBTA is moved within inches of the colony. Clowns bite fingers etc. , very aggressive about their territory - I know this is normal but isn't an anem preferred over coral typically?.
<Clowns are rarely typical anything.>
I am wondering if there is any method to encourage them to host in the RBTA - so the Duncans can return to normal.
<Only permanent separation most likely, clowns can be very persistent.>
I really like both and don't want to either to have to go. Is this behavior damaging to the Duncans?
<Definitely can be.>
They appear to be fine aside from not fully opening from the constant smothering.
<Stress will take its toll.>
Thanks again,
Cassidy
<Welcome>
<Chris>  

Pink skunks, QT and a nem, 3/15/09
Dear All,
<Hi>
Just a quick one this time (!) - Will time in QT affect how rapidly the clowns will adopt an anemone?
<Not really.>
I'm due to pick up a pair of pink skunk clowns in a few days time and will be putting them in QT for 4 weeks on arrival home. They're currently happily in residence within a large sebae anemone at the LFS, the hope is that they'll adopt our large sebae anemone in time.
<I would give this good chances of happening since they seem to already be interested in hosting.>
Many thanks - I'm loathed to not QT these as I had a nasty white spot scare a month or so ago so want to give them the best possible start (a regal developed white spot even after time in QT, however all residents are fit, healthy and showing no signs of the infection despite the inevitable low level of white spot that is certainly now present).
<QT would be best here, give them time to toughen up before exposure.>
Carolyn
<Chris>

Re: Ocellaris clownfish aggression, 3/11/09 Thank you for answering so fast. <Welcome> I wanted to mention something I find very interesting. My clowns have found a host in the 3 feather dusters we have. The feather dusters stay open for the clowns to rest and flutter in them. But they close as soon as something else touches them. <Interesting> I was going to purchase a carpet anemone for them but someone at my LFS told me that once a clown have found a home they will not abandon it and buying an anemone will be in vain. <Generally they will move if they prefer the new host more, but they will be quite happy without an anemone.> Here's a pic. Brion <Nice> <Chris>

Anemone/Clown Compatibility 3/5/09 Hi guys and gals <Hello Daniel> I just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading all the information that you provide. <Nice to hear, thank you.> I have asked a few questions in the past with <a> very quick reply to all of them. They were very helpful in the end. I had a quick <question> about my LTA and False Black Percula. I have downgraded my tank since we have last talked. 135rr to 47 tall. Dimensions on the 47 are 20�x 18�x 30 tall. <Mmm, not much square area there.> Sand and LR come straight from the 135 all that I could jam in there and make it look nice ha. Light is a 400 watt DE 14,000k Halide. Filtration/water movement Fluval 405 and 2x Korila <Koralia> stage 3 for a total of 1900 gallons per hour. The LTA once put in took an hour to attach to its current spot in the sand next to LR. During the day its stays about a 1ft across and when the light comes on in the morning it is about 1ft ? across. The Perculas have yet to go in or to even check it out. Is there a possibility that they will eventually go in? <Did they enter the anemone in the old system? If so, it may take a while for this to happen, new surroundings, change in water parameters, etc. If they are new to the system, the clowns may be tank bred/raised, and if so, may never enter the anemone, as they don't know what it is, never been raised with one present. If they were not tank raised/bred, but new additions to the system, the LTA (Macrodactyla doreensis) is not their preferred anemone, not to say they wouldn't enter it, but favor Stichodactyla sp (Carpet Anemones), and Heteractis magnifica (Ritteri Anemone) and possibly the Crispa, another Heteractis sp. > Thank you ahead of time. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Daniel

Re Anemone/Clown Compatibility 3/6/09 I apologize for the misspellings in the previous e-mail. <Thank you, much easier on us if we do not have to correct before posting.> The LTA is new all together but the clowns have been in the system for a year. I put a BTA (this has since died it became stuck in the overflow) in the old system and it took them about 2 weeks to find it. I believe that these are tank raised clowns from what the LFS said when I purchased the pair. From what you have said and others is I probably do not have room for another anemone for the tank due to square area being small. Should I just stick with the LTA and hope one day they will go into it? <Being the clowns are tank bred/raised, they may never go into any anemone. I would not add another. If your clowns were interested in an anemone, they would likely at least investigate the LTA, hang around, etc.> Aren't Heteractis magnifica (Ritteri Anemone) more of a cooler water anemone? <No, (tropical) Indo Pacific, but they are difficult to keep alive for any length of time as they do ship poorly. James Gasta (Salty Dog)>

A pair of clowns with a pair of anemones   2/27/09
Hi there,
<Debbie>
Been browsing through the net and going through your site intently for past few days in the quest to 'answer' a particular curiosity.
I have pair of false percula clowns which I have kept over 2 years.
They've been hosting a decent size Red Bubble Tip Anemone, but the female tends to chase the male away.
<How large a system?>
She doesn't like to share
obviously. But the male will still be swimming very close by... occasionally, he naps by the side of the anemone.
<Common behavior>
There's no other clown fishes currently present in the tank, apart from these two. If there is a present of another BTA, would it be highly likely for this male clown to host this new anemone?
<Mmm, maybe... but I would not go this route>
The main question is... if he chooses to do so, would it turn him into a female - simply because he host a different anemone from the female?
<If this system were large, even "long" enough, there is this possibility, yes>
I don't plan to add anymore clowns since I'd like them to remain as a pair. They've been good as a pair - apart from the slight chase away from the anemone... else, they've been friendly too all new fishes and all the new fishes are also friendly with them. But I do intent to add the new BTA (coz it's actually a gift and it's really quite 'hard' to say no since it's going to be a beauty).
<Do acclimate the two anemones to each other by "mixing" water back and forth through/between separate systems for a few weeks>
Shall I host it with some sexy shrimps instead just to keep it 'occupied' so that the male will be uninterested?
<A worthwhile trial>
My tank details:
The main tank is 4ft x 2ft x 2ft with 6x T5 lights setup and standard corner overflow. There are plenty of live rocks and a thin layer of live sand (just enough to cover the tank base).
The sump is 3.5ft x 1ft x 1.5ft running through a layer of sponge, BK sponge, Eheim return pump and an external chiller to keep temperature at 26C... and a mixture of macroalgae and Chaeto in refugium.
Water Readings: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphate = 0.
Feeding: Daily = 2-3 times a day, each time with a 15ml liquid food mixture (fresh made saltwater with Cyclopeeze powder, Phytomax, Vitamarin C and zooplanktos-M + 10-15 drops of live oyster eggs by Reef Nutrition. Twice a week = chop fresh market prawn for the plates / mysis shrimp for the suncorals.
Coral stocking = Moderate pack - LPS (variety of plates, candycanes, mooncorals, goniporas, hammercoral, brain), few small rock piles of Zoas, buttons & mushroom, 2xSPS frags, 1xblueberry seafan, 2xsuncorals, 1xChristmas Tree+Porite rock, couple of feather dusters, 1xblue clam.
Fish & Invertebrate stocking = 2xclowns, 1x filament flasher wrasse, 1x lawnmower blenny, 1xblue mandarin, 1xscooter blenny, 1xcleaner shrimp, 1xfireshrimp, 2xfirefish goby, 3xpajama cardinal, 1xyellow clown goby.
Future fish stocking = 3xblue chromis (currently in quarantine tank) and possibly a female blue mandarin (at a much later stage).
Thanks for your time, and keep up with the fabulous work. Your site has the most intensive collection of case studies which is great since everyone experiences something slightly 'different'.
Regards,
Debs
<Ah, yes... and thank you for writing so well, sharing. If it were me, I might well try the other BTA here... acclimating it as stated, at the far end away from the present specimen. Bob Fenner>

B&W Clowns won't host, 2/25/09
Hello,
<Hi>
I recently purchased two B&W Ocellaris Clowns and they refuse to host with any Anem. I purchased a Sebae and they wont go near it. So then I purchased an RBTA.. they are completely uninterested.
<Not uncommon, especially with captive raised clowns, they may never show any interest in an anemone.>
I have another pair of clowns that host in a bubble Anem and do fine and everyone gets along well but they refuse to host. Is there anything you can do to coax them into hosting into the RBTA?
<Not really besides give them some time, but they may never host.>
I would really like if I could see them in their new house!
<Having trouble with the financing maybe?>
On a side note they seem to only want to bubble Anem that belongs to my other pair?
<This may play a part too, perhaps they are not a pair, but waiting to move in on the female hosting in the bubble.>
Sometimes they are let in by the clowns but other times chased off.
<While it is a rather large tank there is still a chance whenever trying to mix clown pairing that you end up with only the strongest pair, the other harassed to death.>
Any suggestions would be great!
Thanks,
Cassidy
<Not much to do here other that hope and be patient, if they want to host they eventually will.>
<Chris>

Heteractis crispa And A. perideraion, pairing  2/16/09
Dear All,
<Hello Carolyn>
Just a quickie - recently bought an anemone that I think is a h. crispa that has had some bleaching (it's a very pale tan colour, not fully white, with purple tips although haven't been able to see if there are any marks around the oral disk) - it happily accepts chopped meaty food (appears to like cockle most) and is happily settled in the middle of the tank by a reef wall, foot firmly stuck in the sand.
<Mmm, I'm curious as to your tank size and lighting here.>
I have two tank-raised black/white false Percs who show no interest in the anemone at all (am I right in thinking they wouldn't usually accept this one in the wild?) however am reading conflicting information regarding a second pair of clowns, the pink skunk clowns (a. perideraion), some sources claim they will happily host h. crispa, others including your lovely selves don't actually specify that they will associate with it, although there are images of the two together.
<Tank bred clownfish will rarely associate with an anemone...they don't know what it is, haven't been raised in the company of one. If the young clowns were collected associating with an anemone, but tank raised to a sellable size, you may have a good chance of them bonding with the anemone.>
Finally, the question (!) - is an association between H. crispa and the pink skunks a 'natural' one?
<They usually associate with Heteractis malu and magnifica, but I've seen the crispa hosting them as well. No guarantees here.>
Many thanks - after years of planning/waiting and much help and guidance from yourselves and others my beloved tank is starting to look truly awesome and I can't thank you all enough (ps Bob - ever need a dive partner from the UK?!)!
<You're more than welcome, Carolyn and have you read here and related articles/FAQ's?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/heteraccrispa.ht
m James (Salty Dog)>
Carolyn

Re: Heteractis Crispa And A. perideraion 2/17/09
Thanks for the fast reply as ever!
<You're welcome.>
The tank is 600l total volume, 72 inches long and 24 inches deep. The lighting is all LED solid state lighting that's been designed to give sufficient light intensity for the sps in my tank, plenty of blue for deeper penetrance through the water. The tank is 12 months old and all the water parameters have been stable for at least 6 months - always knew I
wanted an anemone but also knew they need a lot of attention and care to do well - the one I've acquired is a tank bred one so am hoping it'll have a better chance of thriving than a wild specimen?
<Would give you an edge.>
Many thanks for the advice on the clowns - intend to leave the system as it is currently, if the pink skunks don't accept the anemone then so be it, I don't want to risk destabilizing things with new fish!
<Sounds good. James (Salty Dog)>
Carolyn

Anemone Hosting Fish 1/23/09
Hi Bob (Crew),
<Hello Ranjith, James with you today.>
Hope you are all fine :-)
<Been under the weather lately with bronchitis, but recovering nicely.>
One of my fellow refers is resetting (read as giving everything away and setting up again).
<A job for sure.>
While we were looking for themes, I happened to see a magazine with an Clownfish peeking from an Anemone.
Will this idea below work??
We want to have the theme of the display as Anemones and their many symbionts.
<Interesting display.>
6' x 2' x 1.5' <135 gallon tank> (water column) with a 3-4 live rock pillars by skewering
live rock with PVC.
4" DSB of 1mm beach sand
<Coral sand hopefully.>
3x 150W MH for lighting (maybe a clip on LED for moonlight)
Filtration & Maintenance
AquaC 120EV or similar.
<I'd go with the 180EV, the 120EV is designed for 40-120 gallon tanks.>
Activated carbon 200grams swapped every quarter.
<I would only use as needed. An efficient skimmer should take care of your DOC's.>
5 gal weekly water changes.
<I'm in favor of 10% water changes.>
Only CA and KH supplemented with KALK and Baking soda on weekends.
Auto Top off DIY using level controllers available.
Circulation is where it gets tricky and don't know what to do.
1. How do we get the Anemones to not get sucked in through overflows?
<Are we talking overflow boxes fed by "U" tubes, or built in overflows?
Built in overflows should cause no physical damage. A very coarse plastic screen placed in front of the
weirs will prevent the anemone from getting inside the box.>
Will it be fine if we drill the bottom and have drain pipes coming up at various locations? The rockwork anyways needs PVC to skewer the rock with.
<I'm not a fan of drain pipes used this way. If a leak develops in the bulkhead, you risk flooding the floor with salt water. Built-in corner overflows with drain pipes installed are much, much
safer providing a properly sized sump is used.>
2. The return would be 3000 LPH <780gph> from the sump.
3. Power heads are risky with anemones, can I use a Koralia or similar propeller pumps?
<Never tried one of these in an anemone system so I cannot comment. May want to post this on a forum.>
The Anemone could wander into these as well can't they? Could you suggest some screen of sorts to discourage Anemones from wandering into the power heads?
<Yes, back in my anemone days I placed Hagen Quick Filters on my powerheads. These filters spread the intake suction over a large area and should an anemone attach to one of these, no damage to the anemone will result. See here.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+4638&pcatid=4638>
4. Do we even need additional circulation other than the return pump? The outflow would be spread across due to multiple overflow pipes as mentioned above. Would this combination not give adequate non linear flow?
<I would incorporate SCWD's (switching current water director) to these outlets. This should give you the non-linear flow you are looking for, but I would strive to maintain a total flow rate at least 10 times the
tank volume which in your case would be 1350gph or 5130lph.>
Invertebrates:
4 to 5 LTA or 4 to 5 BTA. Can we have 8 to 10 in this volume?
<Four to five would be my limit in this system.>
5- 10 Feather dusters
Few small starfish and snails
2 Skunk Cleaner shrimp
1-2 artificial urchins
Fish
4 Percula Clowns
9 to 11 Banggai cardinals (or would you suggest Threadfin cardinals?)
<I have seen Banggai Cardinals swim and host among anemones in captive systems, but never in BTA's or LTA's. Bob may have observed this in the wild and may inject a comment here. Reading below will give you one individual's insight on this. The item was taken from the February, 2004 issue of Aquarium Fish Magazine.
"A number of Cardinalfish will associate with sea anemones, with several common western Pacific species being well known for this. The orange striped Cardinalfish (Apogon cyanosoma) and the Moluccan Cardinalfish (A. moluccensis) occasionally associate with the leathery (or sebae) anemone (Heteractis crispa) and the magnificent sea anemone (H. magnifica). The bridle Cardinalfish is a resident of the Atlantic Ocean that inhabits the curlycue sea anemone (Bartholomea annulata). In some cases, Cardinalfish simply swim near the stinging tentacles. In other cases, they readily contact and shelter within them.
The Banggai Cardinalfish was originally reported to shelter among the spines of Diadema sea urchins. In Lembeh Strait, northern Sulawesi, I have regularly seen them swimming near the corkscrew tentacle (Macrodactyla doreensis), giant carpet (Stichodactyla gigantea) and Haddon's carpet (S. haddoni) anemones. It will contact and swim among the tentacles of the leathery sea anemone. With the other three, the cardinals usually swim close but never (or rarely) come in contact with the stinging cells.
Once, I also saw a juvenile Banggai swimming around and between (but not contacting) the tentacles of the deadly Hell's fire anemone (Actinodendron sp.). Anemones are not the only cnidarians these Cardinalfish associate with. Juveniles will swim among the tentacles of the anemone like stony coral Heliofungia actiniformis.
When these Cardinalfish first started to appear in Lembeh Strait, a single anemone would typically harbor an adult pair of P. kauderni and occasionally one or two juveniles. As the Banggai population increased, the most desirable anemones (i.e., H. crispa) were overrun with these Cardinalfish. The carpet anemones, which seem the less-sought-after host, were still home to solitary pairs of P. kauderni. It's not unusual to see Banggai Cardinalfish sharing an anemone with Anemonefishes. I have seen them living alongside pairs of Clark's Anemonefish (Amphiprion clarkii) and the pink skunk Anemonefish (A. perideraion). One patch of three medium-size H. crispa was home to a pair of Banggai cardinals, a breeding pair of Clark's and a pair of pink skunks. In this and other cases, the Anemonefish paid little attention to the Cardinalfish, even when the Anemonefish were guarding eggs.
If you get an individual Banggai or a pair of these Apogonids, there is a good chance they will swim among the tentacles of your sea anemone. I have seen them associate with H. crispa on a number of occasions in the aquarium, as well as in the wild.
Curt">
Would adding 1 pygmy angel create problems? (He/she will be just a tourist in the ecosystem:-))
<Would be too risky for the fish with anemones present.>
I read on WWM that Banggai Cardinals could host anemones.
How often does this happen?
<I would say in captive systems, not too often based on my visual experiences and again, Bob may comment here.>
<<Some Apogonid species, including Banggai's are found in association (not "hosting"  per se) amongst the tentacles... of carpet anemones in the wild... RMF>>
Could we add a shoal (6-8) Banggai Cardinals to this setup? Will they host the Anemone?
<No guarantees here.>
Do I need the artificial urchin with the Anemone?
<What for?>
Would other cardinals like Threadfins host Anemones?
<Again, no guarantees. Dascyllus trimaculatus, as juveniles often host the same anemones as
clownfish, but these guys get too large as adults and will be roughnecks.
If it were me, I'd stick with clownfish and avoid potential problems ahead.>
Are there other fish that host Anemones? Could not find much information even in one of the famous books by Joyce <Joyce> W (I think that is the author). <Yes, Wilkerson.>
<This article by Dr. Daphne G. Fautin and Dr. Gerald R. Allen may be helpful too. http://www.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/ebooks/intro.html. Reading here and articles/FAQ's shown below is another aid for you.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i1/Clown_anemone/Clown_anemone.htm>
Cheers
<Whew, good day to you. James (Salty Dog)>
Ranjith

Clownfish hosting algae anemone 1/16/08 Hello, I just love your web site, it has been very useful & informative. I was reading about clownfish behavior, & just wanted to share a picture of my ocellaris clownfish hosting an "algae anemone" as I refer to it. <Neat!> They hang around it most of the time, laying on their side, swimming through it, as if getting the layer of "slime" on their bodies to protect them from the anemone sting. It is quite comical to watch them & they even share with the Royal Gramma at times. I have tried relentlessly to get rid of this algae. I bought a Yellow Tang to eat the algae, but they killed him. They were protecting their "algae anemone". So I have decided to let the algae alone, as it pretty much is kept in one area on the live rock, & home to the clownfish. I even had a BTA anemone in the tank which they showed no interest in. These clownfish are about 1 year old & were tank raised. Or shall I say bred in captivity. Can you tell if the algae is what they call turtle moss, or turtle algae? <Mmm... would you send along a scientific name for the genus you're thinking of here? I don't think this is Chlorodesmis... one genus for this common name...> It is very hard to remove from the live rock, even with scrubbing with a clean toothbrush. It grows to about 3" in length, just swaying in the current, looking like a big green anemone. Thanks for all the great info, you folks are the best. Sue <Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish/Hammer Coral and multicolor angel questions   12/30/08
Hello and Happy Holidays -
Thank you for your website, knowledge, and assistance! I read, read, read and then can still not believe that I missed an important piece of information or still don't understand something. I guess that's why this is a good hobby for me. Never boring. Always something new.
<Agreed>
I have been in the hobby 5-6 years and recently revived my saltwater tank after a home remodel - tank ran with a heater, rock, and sand for almost a year. Now I have been re-stocking and re-learning for a few months. My 100 gal tank (black sand, lots of live rock, 30 gal sump, ASM skimmer, very small and young HOB CPR refugium) has good water parameters (SG 1.025, T 79, Amm/Nitrite/Nitrate all zero, PH 8.1-8.2).
My two primary questions:
1. I have 2 black clowns (with orange faces) that are in the process of pairing up. Overall, they seem to have settled down, but I still see them nipping at each other now and again. They have elected to host in my Hammer Coral. The Hammer seems quite tolerant of this and looks actually very well. They have been living in this coral constantly for the past 3-4 weeks, took to the coral about a week after it was introduced to the tank.
Days 1-3 very happy and in the hammer coral most of the time
Day 4 fluffy cotton hanging from both fish
Day 5 or 6 cotton resolved
Days 6-8 very happy
Day 9 Small slits in fins on both fish
Day 12 or 13 slits healed entirely
Days 13-15 very happy
Approx Day 16 both clowns had more severe reactions to the coral. The smaller could not close his mouth. The larger developed a very swollen and puffy-looking face. Small clown moved away from the coral and resided in another area of the tank.
Day 18 Smaller clown can close his mouth but has a very puffy face. He has a split lip with red around it. Extra vitamins given in his food.
Day 23 or 24 lip heals but face still quite puffy and clown moves back into coral
Days 25-27 very happy (in coral constantly, nip at each other occasionally, eating well)
Day 28 Split caudal fin with cotton on the smaller clown, face more puffy (1/2 is paralyzed?), moves away from hammer again. Still eating well.
Larger clown face still puffy (maybe a little less?), living in coral always, eating well.
(Is this too much detail? Sorry if so).
<Not too much... good to have complete picture>
My thought has been "Hopefully this will sort itself out",
<And it generally does... Percula/Ocellaris clowns do establish relations with Euphyllias in captivity... often course through the sort of process you relate so well here>
since they are eating well and the smaller seems to be managing his illness to some degree on his own. The swollen faces have been for more than 10 days now. They look very much "allergic" and not infectious. I would like to continue to watch it and hope eventually that this will resolve on its own. Is there a time limit for how long I should allow this to go on?
<Mmm, no, not really... Till the two species either "agree" or not to associate>
Also - the day of the open mouth and swollen faces was the same day my peppermint shrimp was picking on that coral and pulling on its polyps.
Would the hammer have been potentially more toxic that day?
<Interesting to speculate...>
(I have since removed the pep).
2. My multicolor angel (in quarantine day 11) developed 3 white spots (2 on the caudal fin, one on a pectoral fin). These remained for 36 hours and then vanished. Debating on what to do, I coincidentally broke a heater in the tank and had to remove him in order to clear the tank of glass.
Therefore, I cleaned out the quarantine tank and have placed entirely new water in the tank. The angel is in a smaller 4 gal holding tank waiting for the water to fully heat and aerate. (I didn't have quite enough water ready for the whole tank). This angel is extremely skittish,
<A sign of good health>
and I question whether or not he would tolerate a FW dip as he attempts to jump out of the tank upon any slight stressor, although he really looks well otherwise. (During acclimation, he tried to jump out several times, even with a lid on - also tried to jump out when I had to net him to remove from the QT and clean the class out.) I am on the fence of "Oh no I need to do something" and "Let's see what happens" due to my lack of experience overall.
<I would, do default to the latter... non-action in cases of doubt>
Trying the minimal approach when possible. Do you have any tips for doing a FW dip in a skittish fish, or would you just skip it altogether?
<As you hint at, to be in constant attendance, make sure the dip container is covered...>
When I dipped my coral beauty angel a number of weeks ago (since then I killed her with copper despite my attempts at careful dosing, thus my aversion to any intervention unnecessary) I was amazed at the things I saw coming out of her and falling off of her (flukes and such), so I do think FW dips can be helpful.
Sorry for the long descriptions.
Thank you for your assistance.
Lynn M
<Thank you for writing so well; completely and clearly... There are some "extra" ideas, methods that might be added to my long-stated dip/bath protocol. For instance, the use of practical anesthetics (akin to "doggy downers" for canines that need to have their nails trimmed let's say)... "Hypno" by Jungle Labs is "over the counter", and there are other materials that might be profitably employed... Bob Fenner>

Anemone (and Clownfish) Display  12/02/08
Hello Everyone,
<Francisco>
I have a 26 gallon Bowfront that until recently was a reef tank. I have pillaged most of what was in it recently when I acquired a 55 gallon. All that is left is 6 heads of frog spawn, a fan worm, a Sharpnose puffer and a clown fish. There is about 25 pounds of live rock and 4 inches of live sand. I have a #3 Koralia power head in it and it is only filtered by an Eheim canister rated for a 60 gallon tank. The lighting is a 24" unit that has a 250watt Metal Halide and two PC Lights currently with actinic bulbs.
The question is... I want to make exclusively an Anemone / Clown Symbiosis display. I'd like two have two or more anemones.
<Mmm, too small for more than one>
What would you suggest given the size of the tank and lighting.
<That you read, here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemonelightngfaqs.htm
and the linked files above>
Additionally how many clown fish would you recommend?
<Two only... of a smaller, tank bred-reared species... Likely Ocellaris or Perculas>
Cheers,
Francisco
<Enjoy the process. Bob Fenner>

Re: Anemone Query... and tank-bred Clown comp. evolutionary speculations  12/2/08
Bob,
<Hi there James>
Read your response to the subject query today.
"...<Two only... of a smaller, tank bred-reared species... Likely Ocellaris or Perculas>" It's been my observation that tank bred species will rarely take to an anemone unless they are bred/reared with an anemone present. I've tried this myself on a couple of occasions with the appropriate clown/anemone combination and the clowns just refuse to enter the anemone...not a bit interested. I've also had a couple of displays with wild caught clowns and they readily enter the anemone. My LFS feels this way also. Are we wrong or have just had stubborn tank bred clowns?
James
<Got me, but I do concur that as time has gone by, successive generations of tank-bred Clowns have become more disinterested in forming such bonds. Interesting to speculate re... What has happened here? Perhaps there is some "selective pressure" to eschew the obligate relationship that exists in the wild... That is, maybe there is more advantage in avoiding host anemones in captivity... Hmmm. BobF>

Re: Anemone Query 12/2/08
I'm thinking that in the wild, the bonding may not be a natural instinct but more of a survival move.
<Mmm, a bit of both by my reckoning>
I probably won't know this in my lifetime as I've already been here longer than I'm going to stay. James
<Mmmm... interesting stmt. James. B>

Percula and anemone... Comp., and BTA gen.    11/27/08
Hi I just yesterday got a bubble tip anemone just to see if my percula clown might host in it, and I was wondering if you might have any tips on how to get the clownfish to host with the anemone.
<Mmm, yes... mainly just patience... some species/individuals do learn to host, even with Anemones they are not naturally symbiotic with in the wild, others never do... Is a learning process for both>
My tank is about a year old and I have some coral
<... Do read on WWM re BTA comp. with other Cnidarians... many cautions>
and some other fish. and my water quality is good and my lighting isn't metal halide but I have a fixture that can hold up to three bulbs. thank you for your help.
<... and BTA systems, including lighting, feeding. Bob Fenner>

Gold Stripe Maroon Clown Pairing 11/1/08 Hi, <Hello> I have a problem with my clown fish. I recently bought a 75 gallon tank with 4 fish and 55 lbs of live rock. its been running for a while now and is very well established. I went to the fish store and bought a small gold stripe maroon clown thinking they would become partners and the big one which i attached pictures of is beating him up. <Some fighting is normal until dominance is established> The one i have is i think about 5 years or older. I think it is a female by the size and color but i am unsure. Is there anything i can do to keep them together? I am afraid she is going to kill her and i would optimally like to keep him. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. <Gold stripe maroon female clowns are notoriously picky and rough when it comes to pairing up. I've seen them kill a few potential suitors before accepting another. I'd suggest removing the male, if you are sure they aren't just establishing dominance anymore. One way that was successful for a friend to pair his gold stripe clown, was to place a male in a specimen cube or some kind of cage for a few days in the tank by the female before he released the new fish into the tank. He could judge how the female would react and also give her some time to get used to the new fish and actually give him a fighting chance.> <Regards, Jessy>

Ailing Pagoda and angry Perculas 10/8/08
Hello!
<Hi>
I have a small 8 gallon BioCube at my office with some live rock, mushrooms, anthelia, polyps, and a pagoda cup coral. I have 2 false percula clowns, a neon goby and a yellow watchman goby.
<That is too much life for such a small tank.>
My tank has been up and running for about 1 1/2 years now with all the same fish and corals. Recently, my pH became very low (7.4) despite weekly water changes, and adding buffer. Out of desperation (my first mistake) I purchased a buffering powder that after adding 1/2 of a packet would miraculously adjust my pH to 8.2. Yeah, right. As soon as I added it, my pagoda seemed to shrink before my eyes!
<Probably pH shock.>
It's polyps retracted and it stayed like this for about a week. I was sure I killed it, however it is opening up again although the polyps are smaller? It's just not the same! So my first question is, what did I do and can it be remedied?
<You most likely raised the pH too fast, not much can be done now except maintain good water quality.>
My second problem is related to the percula clowns. They made their home in the pagoda cup and guarded it if I tried to get near it. I removed the pagoda to put it in a 58 gal we have at home in order to try to nurse it along. They are ANGRY!!! The female is attacking other corals in the tank now and is not a happy camper.
<Is looking for a new home.>
I didn't know if I should try to replace the pagoda with another coral in hopes that they might take to it, or if once they have a home they never adapt to another one?
<Can find a new home if they find something to their liking.>
Do I put the pagoda back in the tank and see if it recovers?
<I would leave it in the more stable larger tank.>
Another tidbit... I tested the 8 gal. and figured out the calcium levels were too high which was causing the low pH. I have since gotten the parameters back to normal.
<Good, but the inherent problem of small tanks, parameters can change radically quickly in small water volumes.>
Thanks for your tips!
Wendy
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Clowns hosting in Goniopora   9/28/08
Hello all at WWM,
<Lyssa>
I have a 55 gallon reef tank. All water parameters are good and established. We get tested every week to be sure.
<Mmm, I'd get, use your own kits>
My question is, I have 2 clown fish, (amongst many others) a true percula and an Ocellaris that are paired up. I have several places for them to host such as a RBTA, frogspawn, hammer coral, torch coral and so forth yet they choose to host in my most sensitive coral, my Goniopora.
<Happens>
(I know I know, Goniopora are difficult to keep and usually don't last longer than 6 months, but I've had some success with it in my tank as has my friend with his which he has had for over 2 years) The problem is that they are rubbing it to death.
<This also>
Do you have any suggestions that I could use to force my clowns to host in a different coral?
<If you can't, don't want to move the Goniopora, cover it with something like a strawberry basket (inverted)>
I was thinking of putting some drilled up Plexi around it to protect
<As long as there are plenty of holes for circulation, feeding each polyp>
it from the clowns. What are your thoughts. Thanks so much.
Lyssa
<Bob Fenner>

Majano Anemones - A pest and a blessing? Amphiprionine hosting  -09/03/08
I am still relatively new to this whole marine aquarium thing (3 years experience so far) and realised far too late that the Majano Anemones that were proliferating in my tank and making it look like a thriving live environment were in fact going to cause me so much trouble. I am now suffering with a major infestation - thank you and all of your
subscribers / bloggers for the information that I now have about dealing with the problem.
I do have one positive side effect that I would like to record regarding these Majano Anemones, however. We all know how hardy they are, in complete contrast to the majority of other anemone species that reef aquarists try to keep in their tanks. I have a breeding pair of Clown Fish (Black and White Ocellaris) who have adopted a particularly dense colony of Majanos as their home. This has led to them producing 4 clutches of eggs THIS YEAR!
<Nice!>
I have far too little experience and know-how and limited resources (time, money, etc) to make a success of breeding my clowns, but I wonder if a more experienced aquarist might be able to use this information to some advantage. Maybe other Clowns can be persuaded to adopt Majano homes to promote breeding?
<Oh yes... Clownfishes will host in a large number of alternative anemones, cnidarians, other sealife, even faux materials>
How you would go about getting each clutch of eggs away from hungry Majano Anemones and into a nursery tank is another matter, but if this means that Majanos can give a little back to the Marine Aquarium hobbyist and start to be valued rather than feared and persecuted, then so much the better.
<There are a few techniques... but as you state, if you aren't into culturing, selling, allowing "nature to take its course" is likely the route to go here. If some survive...>
Thanks once again for all of your help and advice.
Stephen Wilkinson
Kingston
<Welcome. Bob Fenner, San Diego>

Clownfish Open Mouth  8/26/08 Hello, <Adam> After reading through the many clownfish disease Q&As, I am still at a loss to the cause and the solution to the problem I am facing. <Ok> I currently have a 30 gallon long SW reef. Lit by 4 39w T5HO bulbs, skimmed with a Tunze nano doc 9002, modded ac110 fuge with Chaeto, water flow from a Vortech mp20, Tunze Osmolator for top off, use only RO/DI 0ppm water, and I am also running some Chemi-pure elite and Purigen. My ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph 8.2, calcium 400, specific gravity 1.025, Alk 8, phosphate 0, and temp is 78 degrees. In terms of livestock, I have a coral beauty, two true Percs, an emerald crab, a pom pom crab, a porcelain crab, hermits, Cerith, Nassarius, 1 troches, 1 Mexican turbo, a tuxedo urchin. I had had the clowns for approximately two weeks before I noticed the problem. The first week they did not have a host and slept / played in the corner of my tank. The second week they found my frogspawn and have been hosted by it ever since. 3 days ago now I noticed that one of my Percs could no longer close his mouth (the other was and still perfectly is fine). I do not think it is genetic because the onset was quick, and he was not like this before hand. The first day he did not eat, yesterday he figured out how to eat with his mouth open. I also feed frozen mysis (which the clowns do not like), Cyclopeeze (which the clowns do like), reef Roids (for my Alveopora) and have Selcon for supplementation. I see no isopods in the mouth of the clown, and have attached a photo so you can have a look as well. <I see and agree re this not being genetically derived> All other evidence I can find of this phenomenon through Google and through WWM either have the clownfish recovering in a couple days or eventually not eating and dying, and no one knows what causes this. Obviously I would really prefer if I could find the cause and prevent my fish from dying. Thank you Adam <Is likely from the "meet and greet" process with the Euphylliid... Will likely cure itself in time. Bob Fenner> Re: Clownfish Open Mouth  8/26/08 Today, day 4, it looks like he is getting movement back in his mouth! I think you are correct that it was from the frogspawn and hopefully he will fully recover. Thank you Adam <Thank you for this update. Excelsior! BobF>

clownfish hosting brain coral Hello crew! You guys rock, by the way! :) I just have a question about my two captive bred Ocellaris Clownfish... They were just added to my 20H where they are currently the only two fish in the neighborhood. There is no anemone in there for them because we are gearing this tank towards an all natural tank started with small frags of all captive grown and fragged coral from friends' tanks and from other responsible coral farmers who pull nothing from the ocean. Anyway, with such limited tank space, we are being very selective about the inhabitants and an anemone just doesn't seem worth the space it would need to account for it's possible in - tank movement and aggression. The clowns were just put in the tank about four days ago (moved from 6 weeks in a QT tank with tiny bit of copper cause a hippo tang in the large FOWLR they were in previously had contracted ich). After hiding for the first few hours, they chose to host an aprox. 4" red and green open brain, which is my BABY... It is the only coral in the tank that is not a small frag with the exception of a plate coral and a green mushroom rock, which I will be fragging soon for trade. The past couple days they seem to be beating up on it pretty badly, and both of them are spending quite a great deal of time diving into it and thrashing about on it. The brain has shown no obvious signs of terrible stress, but I'm concerned they might injure it. Is this possible? <Yes> Should I consider getting them an anemone or is there some other kind of coral they have been known to prefer hosting that would be less aggressive to other coral and could take the furious affection of these two adorable little guys? <Mmm... in a volume of this small size...?> A leather perhaps??? <Might work... but you'll need to move or shield the Trachyphylliid> I don't want the brain to go, but removing the clowns at this point would be an indescribable amount of work (though I'm sure you know how hard it is to dismantle an entire reef to catch a fish). Below I will include tank stats and also a pic of my prized brain. Any advice you could offer would be so helpful. Thanks so much, and we appreciate all your incredibly hard work to educate the masses. Liz and Jesse Tank stats: 20 gallon High 30 LBS live rock 4" sand bed 2 Ocellaris Clownfish open brain various mushrooms, Ricordea, plate coral, various polyps, xenia frag, clove polyp frag, green star polyps, and one frag green with purple rim Montipora (which we're only trying this early cause tank was set up using live rock and sand from tank that has been running for years), various LPS frags. roughly 10 Mexican red leg hermits, and around 5 or so various snails 1 pompom crab, 1 emerald crab 1x 150 w 14K HQI w/ 6 blue LED & 6 white LED moonlights (whites on 2 hours before and two hours after HQIs, which are on an 8 hour cycle. Blues on remaining 12 hours. 15 gallon sump with fuge chamber containing DSB, 10 LBS live rock and Chaeto power compact on fuge with lights on while HQIs are off. CoraLife protein skimmer (not sure which model off top of head, but know it is good for up to 60 or 70 gallons and seems to do a good job) specific grav. - 1.024 PH - 8.3 calcium - 400 Ammonia - 0 nitrite - 0 nitrate - undetectable phosphate - undetectable temp - 79-80 The only other fish we plan on adding (he just started his QT when the clowns moved out of that tank) is a Lubbock's wrasse cause we've had a small problem with bristle worms and thought he might help. (please note also that in pic there seems to be some debris settled onto brain. That is from the clowns diving in and around it, kicking up sand, and was never there before they were added to tank. The sand never stays long as it is blown off by gentle water current). <You appear aware of your options... either separation or shielding twixt these animals. For more: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshanemfaqs.htm and the linked files at top. Bob Fenner>

True Perc Clowns, Persistent Fin Rot, hosting with Euphylliid    8/21/08
Hello, and thank you in advance!
<Howdy, welcome>
About a month and a half ago we purchased two True Percula Clownfish, at a relatively young age. They were already paired, and went through a quarantine procedure for two weeks prior to addition to our main tank. There were no problems with either Clownfish during quarantine.
Our tank is a 100 gallon drilled tank, with two power-heads, and a return pump running water from our sump/refugium tank (40 gallons) below. The parameters for the tank are as follows:
380 ppm Calcium
3.7 mEq/L Alkalinity
8.0 pH
0.1 ppm Nitrate
0.0 Nitrite
0.0 Ammonia
<So far, so good>
After addition to the main tank, the Clownfish both began to host our Torch Coral. They both received minor injuries to their tails, I'm assuming due to acclimation to the Coral,
<I'd guess the same>
and the males tail healed fine. However, the female developed a bacterial infection and fin rot on her tail, so we treated her for 5 days in a hospital tank with an external treatment called Maracyn.
<Ah, yes... the antibiotic Erythromycin>
The infection part of the rot (the white mucus looking material around the missing part of the tail) was completely gone, and her tail even began to heal a bit. However, almost immediately after adding her back into the main tank (maybe five hours,) the white film has come back and the rot has gotten worse.
<More a burn than rot>
Besides the physical rot on her tail fin, and the white mucus layer surrounding the rot, she seems completely fine. They're both eager to eat, very active, and I cannot find any other signs on her of infection or sickness.
Should I treat her again? Or will it simply persist once I add her back to the main tank?
<Mmm, if the fish appears fine otherwise, I'd leave it in the main tank...>
Thank you very much for your time!
Stephanie Judson
<Thank you for writing, sharing. Bob Fenner>

Anemone and clowns, and Sexy Shrimp...    8/16/08
Hi crew, thank you so much for all your info it has helped many times over. I have a pair of Ocellaris clown fish in with my seahorses and they are getting too rowdy. I want to put them in their own 30 gallon tank with just them and an anemone. I have read these clowns favor the more difficult anemone like the carpet anemone.
<... a poor choice as you state>
Would you suggest trying the BTA and see if they take to it.
<I would/do suggest having no anemone period. Too small/unstable a system and unnecessary>
I would like to have some sexy shrimp but have avoided them since my seahorses would like them for dinner.
<Mmm, no... too big>
Can I put the sexy shrimp in with a carpet anemone or will I be causing problems.
<See WWM re their natural symbionts>
After much reading I figured I cant have other anemones and would do better with one and only one.
<None>
I just wondered if putting in the sexy shrimp would cause an anemone fight between clown and shrimp.
<Again... not a good idea at all>
Thanks so much for your help. I found info on these things separate but not putting everyone together I hope I didn't waste your time.
<Mmm, no... if this communication saves you from blatantly killing sealife, keeps you in the hobby, otherwise successful, it has been worth it. Bob Fenner>

Tomato Clown & LTA Hosting....    8/9/08
Hi,
<Good Afternoon! Yunachin here.>
I just introduced an LTA into my tank in which my Tomato clown has lived for the past several months. It has been a week and the LTA has settled in and appears to be doing fine.
<Good.>
The clown, on the other hand, shows no interest in the LTA. I know hosting is not guaranteed, but I was wondering if it may take some time, or, if it was going to happen it would have by know. This clown has shown interest in another anemone in the past, but one I have since lost.
<Nothing to worry about at all. In my experience with several species of clowns and anemones, I have had different results each and every time. I have seen clowns take to anemones within a day, and some it took 6 months. Some, that I house ignore anemones completely and go to anemone-like coral. In a nutshell, give it some time and if it is meant to be it will happen. If not, if everyone is healthy and happy then you have a beautiful new anemone to enjoy just for yourself.>
Regards,
<Have a great day! -Yunachin>
Mike

24 gal. nano... Anemone/Clown non-pairing mostly     8/8/08
Hi.
I am a beginner and have a 24 gallon Nano tank, that currently just has live rock, some brittle stars, snails, and a bubble tip anemone
<Needs more room than this>
with a percula clownfish.
I used to have a blue tang,
<... inappropriately stocked here>
but the second day I had him he had showed signs of velvet and unfortunately died 2 days later. It struck hard. During the signs on the blue tang I started to add garlic to their food, brine shrimp. Also did a water change, and cleaned the filters after the tang passed. The clownfish was fine, stayed far from the anemone still since they were just introduced to each other. Then about a week later the clown, who was still eating fine, started to just hang around the anemone and would just gently touch upon him, nothing noticeable unless up close. A few days after he was snuggling up to the anemone the clownfish all of a sudden just started to swim upside down, on the side, as if he wasn't in any control. He wouldn't budge if my hand was near him or anything. He had no signs of spots, filmy eyes, lethargic breathing, or scratching. Just spazzy swimming.
<Not "welcomed" by the anemone>
I felt horrible knowing that there was only an unfortunate outcome. But I can not decipher what had happened to him, and I would like your advice on the subject so that I may be able to notice and hopefully prevent it in the future as well as just be able to know and understand what happened.
Thank you very much.
<Mmm, well... it turns out that the mutual symbiosis so often touted twixt Amphiprionines and Actinarians is a "learned trait"... and that such "marriages aren't always made in heaven"... Sometimes clowns and host anemones don't form happy relationships... particularly if the anemone is overly stressed... likely in such small volumes that are inherently unstable. Please read re...: http://wetwebmedia.com/small.htm
"and the linked files above"...
Bob Fenner>

Re: Hi, just a question about my (surface loving) clownfish, Anemone 5/13/08 Hi team! <Hello> Just writing to report that my clownfish are still happy and healthy (and extremely cute). <Good> Just thinking of getting an anemone for my pair to host. <Definitely requires a step up in care over the clowns.> I can't work out whether they are ocellaris or true perculas because they are always moving too fast for me to count the spines in their fins, but I assume they are the more common ocellaris because they are more yellowy. <Most likely.> Just wondering - if I got a compatible anemone, what are the chances that they will become "friends"? the guy in the fish shop says that they almost certainly hang out together eventually, but just takes time. Is this true? <They may, however tank raised clowns often do not host. They would be fine without one.> I'm especially worried because my fish like to be near the surface all the time and they might not want to be wherever my anemone decides to be. Thanks again! Ps. I attached a pic, just because I'm in love and I want to share the love.  Here they are up at the surface as usual. Splashing the water around as usual. Lai <Very nice.> <Chris>

PS: Hi, just a question about my (surface loving) clownfish -5/13/08 PS. I also have an extremely clean, obsessive compulsive scarlet cleaner shrimp, who is especially keen to clean these guys but they wont have a bar of it. Will that change in time? Is it ok to have a lonely, rejected shrimp always attempting to clean these guys? Hes always jumping around the tank everywhere to try and get them. <Often small aquarium fish do not allow themselves to be cleaned. Normal behavior all around.> <Chris>

Clownfish/Compatibility 4/23/08
Hi,
<Hello>
Thanks so much for the goldmine of knowledge that is wetwebmedia.com.
<You're welcome.>
I've researched, but believe that my question needs to be met with your truly expert advice. My 75 gallon aquarium currently houses a dwarf Flame Angelfish, a Sixline Wrasse, a Mandarin Dragonette (many copepods present in tank), a Fire Goby, Bali Starfish, and a cleaner shrimp. As for corals: a Colt Coral, Frogspawn, Trumpet Coral, colony of Zoanthids, and xenia. Will a Black Percula Clownfish be compatible with this assortment of life?
<Sure.>
Do you think that it could damage the frogspawn by trying to host in it?
<Won't help much if the clownfish is causing the coral to close. If the clownfish is tank bred, the odds of it hosting in anything are slim.>
I intend for the clownfish to be my last addition, but I'd also like to know your opinion of whether this may be too many fish.
<You are fine here.>
Water quality seems to be great according to my testing kits. I do weekly 10% water changes using Reef Crystals salt mix and no additional dosing of minerals.
<Sounds good to me my friend.>
Thanks so very much. Your opinions are greatly valued!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Clownfish/BTA Compatibility 4/22/08
I recently asked a question about lighting, tank cover and wrasses. The advice was right on! Just wanted to let the crew know that I have 2 ocellaris that have adapted perfectly to a Bubble Tip. The clowns are tank raised. Don't know the origin of the anemone. They took about 2-3 weeks to get together. Have been thriving for about 6 mos. Just thought some of your readers may like to know this.
<Thanks for sharing your experience, Roger. James (Salty Dog)>
Roger

Saddleback clamfish
Crazy Clowns hosting in Clam 3-31-08
Hi crew,
<Good Morning. Yunachin here.>
Is it unusual that my two Saddleback clowns have hosted in my Derasa clam? The clam never closes on them and despite having a giant long tentacle anemone to go to, they choose the clam.
<Not common but not uncommon either.>
Even when my Six-line wrasse is chasing them down (which I don't understand either),
<Wrasse can have little attitudes especially with new fish.>
they could easily attain safety if they go to the long tentacle anemone, but they just try and dodge the Six-line in the clam. They have only been in the tank about a week... perhaps they will figure out the wrasse will no longer nip them in the safety of the long tentacle after some time.
<Hopefully. I would watch them very carefully as clams do have a taste for fish. I have seen many a clam take fish down quickly, if you get concerned you can always move the clam to a spot that they cannot get to right away, then if frightened, they will book to the Long Tentacle. After they take to the LTA, then you can move the clam to wherever you see fit.>
Thanks~Alan
<You’re welcome! –Yunachin>

Maroon Clownfish Loving its Anemone to Death, Overfeeding – 2/20/08
Greetings WWM Crew,
<Hello Mike, Brenda here!>
First I'd just like to say thanks for having such a great site with so much useful information. I've been using it quite a bit since I found it. First I'd like to give a little info on my tank...
36 gallon bow, Almost 7 months old, 50 lbs live rock and 40 lbs of live sand filtration/skimming: Aquaclear 50 running the foam insert and ChemiPure, SeaClone 100
<SeaClone skimmers are not the best. I recommend looking into a better product.>
Circulation: Hydor Koralia Nano 1, Power Sweep 226,
<I don’t recommend power heads when keeping anemones. If you must, they need to be covered to protect the anemone.>
130w PC fixture, 1 65w 10K and 1 65w actinic; lighting period ~11.5 hours
H2O Quality: ph 8.3, SG 1.024
<Gradually increase salinity to 1.026.>
ammonia undetectable, nitrite undetectable, nitrate ~10 +/-
<Nitrates need to be zero.>
phosphate undetectable
Alk ~9
calcium 360
I do a water change every 2 weeks of ~5 - 6 gallons. (I use IO Reef Crystals)
Average temp 78 degrees F
<I recommend targeting 80 degrees F.>
Live stock:
Fish - fed twice daily, alternating between Formula 1 & 2 flake, Mysis and frozen Brine Shrimp Plus 2 green chromis
1 Kole tang
<A 36 gallon tank is much too small for any tang.>
1 Maroon clown
Softies - add DT's plankton every other day, feed the open brain small piece of silverside 2x a week, 2 medium mushroom rocks, an open brain, 1 medium polyp rock and a small crop of pom pom xenia several snails, 1 red leg hermit, 3 blue leg hermits
<Crabs can become predators of coral and anemones.>
and a crop of feather Caulerpa. Hope this wasn't too much....Generally speaking, I think the tank is in good shape. There seems to be an abundance of life in the sand and all my livestock appears to be in good health. Two weeks ago I purchased a medium to large rose BTA from my LFS. It appeared to be in very good shape, no damage to the mouth or base, good color and bubbled up real nice. I drip acclimated over a 4.5 hour period prior to introducing into the tank (I know I should have a Q tank, unfortunately I don't). Placed it in an area in the tank
with several crevices for it to choose from. Over night it moved into one of those crevices and has been there since. It is securely attached and, for the most part, been behaving exactly as I have expected based on the research I have done. It has had an excellent feeding response and appetite. I've been feeding a Silverside every 2 to 3 days
<A whole silverside is much too large. I don’t recommend feeding portions bigger than the anemones mouth. When feeding too large of portions, the anemone will likely regurgitate several hours later, ending up with nothing to eat.>
and the clown also takes it pieces of Mysis and Brine Shrimp mix on the days when I feed those.
<Brine Shrimp is not adequate. There is little or no nutritional value in Brine shrimp unless it is newly hatched.>
My maroon clown (~2" in size) moved in on the anemone within minutes of it being in the tank and been hosting it ever since. Now for my problem/question. In 2 weeks, the clown never gives this anemone any peace.
<This is not unusual for a Maroon clownfish.>
It is in it or around it all day long and even sleeps in the anemone at night. At times it appears to be pressing its body against the anemone's mouth, as if it were trying to suffocate it. Over the last 2 days the anemone seems to be looking very "wilted" and has not been expanding as in the past. Is it possible for the clown to be stressing out the anemone?
<Sure is!>
I know the maroon clown can be an aggressive fish, but I haven't seen or read anything that they could potentially harm their anemone. Could you please give me any ideas or suggestions you may have.
<Your anemone needs to be at least three times (minimum) larger than this clownfish. Maroon clownfish can love their anemone to death. They need to be separated until the anemone is large enough to handle the Maroon.>
Thanks, Mike
<You’re welcome! Brenda>

Re: LTA moving around   -02/20/08
Thank you again for your help, James. This site is truly amazing in the amount of info found here. I only whish I heard about it earlier.
<Never too late.>
I do have another question for you about my Tomato Clownfish.
As I said before, the female of the pair likes to waft and dig with her tail all around the host LTA. It would be pretty interesting, if she did not bury corals without regard, cloud up my water, move my sand bed around (which is really bad for me because I have a DSB and the anemone has been moving so she basically ruins the filtration efforts ((denitrification)) of the sand bed), etc...etc...etc...
<Normal behavior, not going to change.>
She is about four inches long and in the past 7 months has constantly gotten darker and darker on her sides.
<Normal.>
She was bright red when I got her so I know she is not a Cinnamon(?) <spell checkers work wonders here.>
Clownfish, anyways I believe she is at least a couple of years old. Last night, since the LTA moved again ( but now to a good spot for him) I have been constantly rearranging for the corals health. So she goes on her usual rampage of cleaning around the anemone, although she has done this for the whole time in my tank and still have yet to see some eggs, and throughout the night I had a rock tumble as a direct result. I lost my 2 big colonies of Acropora in the sand that I had to dig out, and a big rock fell not so much directly on the anemone but close enough to cause damage to my female who was in a slumber at the time I am guessing. I saw the tumble had happened 2 hours before the actinics come on so I turned them on, restacked (hopefully a little safer this time) and turned the
light back off so everything could calm down. During this I noticed my female had some scratches on her side, slime coat issues, and would not leave the cleaner shrimp alone unless he was cleaning her. I also noticed that she will not go anywhere near her anemone the male is still in there and will not leave it no mater what).
#1 Am I getting too worked up too soon about the female? will go back in time)
<Nothing you mention sounds unusual, nature will take it's own course here.>
#2 Should I be worried about the stress factor of this whole episode?
<I would as this behavior isn't going to change. is why anemones and clownfish should be kept in a system by themselves.>
#3 Is there any other way to get her to stop doing this other than taking her out? I have tried strategically placing rock rubble around the LTA so her tail will hit the rock instead of the sand and that seems to work for a while until she moves the rock.
Obviously you cannot train a fish, so I hope this does not seem like a stupid question. Also I know I should not even have the LTA in the system to begin with. Maybe I am looking for an answer I will never get.
<I think so my friend.>
Maybe I should be saying to myself, you created this problem, now you deal with it.
<Bingo, lack of reading/learning before the purchase.>
I just love all the corals that I have and would love to not have to remove anything, but it is pretty much down to this: either pull out the clown/anemone/select corals or shut up and deal with it?
If it is not to much of a problem I was going to list all the corals and you could recommend which to remove so everything is not always competing chemically.
Keep in mind I run a lot of activated carbon 100% of the time to help with the allelopathy.
<spell checker?? Let's not go through this again, please. Forget which corals to move, your best choice is removing the LTA and the clownfish to a separate system, there you will have the benefit of enjoying both worlds.>
large Goniopora, green flower pot, very big (Skelton about half the size of a beach ball and expands longest tentacles almost a foot)
LTA 14 or so inches across
Bali Green Slimmer <Never heard of a slimmer.> (size of a fist)
Turbinaria Sp. about the size of a coffee cup.
Acropora <&%$%^@> yellow with geen <what color is geen, close to bue?> tips (little smaller than a baseball)
Pearl Bubble Coral
15 heads of Frogspawn
F Brain Coral
4 heads of Branching Hammer Coral
Around 100 heads (split in 2 colonies) of Metallic Green Trumpet Coral
Hydnopora <A new family of Hydnophora?> (size of a hand)
rock with 13 orange Rhodactis Mushrooms
piece of Tonga with 20 green Mushrooms (rock also has two half dollar chunks of some kind of hitchhiking crustacious yellow/tan SPS.
1 beautiful purple/blue with green Clam (grows at an amazing rate)
I also have a couple of hitchhiking corals that I have let go but are very small and they include a tiny chunk of toadstool , that I took out months ago, but where it grew its base to another rock that I had to carefully pry off, is now growing. There is also some kind of crusting soft coral (resembles glove polyps or something, but that is about 2'' by 6'' patch). also little tiny chunk of Pocillipora, and this little guy that the best I can come up with is a plate coral (the size of a dime).
<Nope, do search/read here.>
One more question:
Along with those corals I have five fish that I will list so you don't have to revise.
Pair of clowns, female is full grown, 1 ODS Goby, 1 Six-line Wrasse, and a Lavender Tang. I feed 1 cube Spirulina enhanced Brine Shrimp one day, Omega-3 Brine Shrimp the next, and Emerald Entree the following day on a cycle. All by San Francisco Bay Brand (Sally's). Mixed in with that I feed DT's Live Phyto every couple of days, and also alternate between (Sally's) Reef Plankton, and Cyclops.
Does this sound like too much/not enough, or even the right type of food for my fish/corals? (The fish always eat everything in at least 2 min.)
<Might want to mix in some New Spectrum dry food. Am trying a sample out now and the fish really like this stuff. Also consider adding Selcon vitamin supplement to the food every other day. Too many spelling/grammar errors, when to use to's and too's. Queries like this usually go on the back burner, get answered last. Please consider our volunteered time which is minimal, not an 8 to 5 job. Thank you. James (Salty Dog)>

Yuma Mushroom Anemone and Clownfish, comp.    2/17/08
Hello
Hi Jennifer, Mike I with you here>
I have found a Yuma Mushroom Anemone and have fallen in love...I have a 30 gallon reef tank and am looking to get a Picasso clownfish. I have several feather dusters and also some button polyps. I have heard of Clownfish taking to different things in place of their usual hosts, so I am wondering if a Clownfish would take to the Mushroom Anemone?
<Very likely, they are quite imaginative when choosing a home. Any of the animals you mention could be adopted>
Also, is it too big for a 30 gallon?
<Don't quite follow you here. If you mean the Yuma, then no. If you mean the Picasso, then no again. Do clarify if I have picked you up wrong>
Thanks. keep up all of the fabulous information
<Tis our pleasure! Thanks for the thanks!>
Jennifer
<Hope that helps you out, Jennifer. Mike I>

Possible Clown Hosts? -01/29/2008
Good Afternoon,
First let me say thank you for all your help with this hobby, I have found this site to be an excellent one for information and have speedy
replies on questions asked.
Here is my Question:
I am very interested in purchasing a BTA just to adore the relationship it has with clowns. I find it a beautiful sight to watch.
However after reading more into it, I have noticed that Anemone's in Captivity don't have a long life span, 11 months if you're exceptionally
lucky but most likely 3 months.
<Hmm... depends on the anemone, how you care for them, etc.--lots of factors here. True, they are not easy to keep, but they are not so destined to die as are some other common marine inverts sold to aquarists. I know of people who have kept anemones quite well for years, decades even. So it is possible.>
I know on this site you don't go agree with anemone purchase in captivity and after reading your info I understand and agree.
<Again, not necessarily. It depends on the anemone and the system it's intended for. Many people have lasting success with bubble tip anemones for example (so long as they are well placed and cared for).>
Since I do want to have a place for my Clown to host is there anything else you could suggest to have this same effect? Is it possible for a clown to host in a Torch Coral or any other Coral?
<Yes, but it's not usually good for the coral.>
Would this damage the coral?
<Most likely, in some way/to some extent or another, yes.>
I would appreciate any information you can give in hopes to have this type of symbiotic relationship with out having to take a perfectly happy
anemone from its home.
<If you're looking for a Cnidarian to host clowns, I would suggest a bubble tip anemone that has been propagated in captivity. Some of these anemones split quite frequently in captive systems. Your best bet might be to get one of these captive "born" anemones.>
I presently bought a clown fish and asked for them to keep it in there anemone tank so he will be use to the relationship of hosting.
<Do extensively research bubble tip anemone care. Here's a place to start:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/bubbletipanemones.htm>
Please Help
Thank you,
Trying to save the wild anemone: Ashley
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Possible Clownfish Host, Alternative to Anemones – 1/26/08
Good Afternoon,
<Hello Ashley, Brenda here!>
First let me say thank you for all your help with this hobby, I have found this site to be an excellent one for information and have speedy replies on questions asked.
<Thank you! Glad you find it helpful.>
Here is my Question:
I am very interested in purchasing a BTA just to adore the relationship it has with clowns. I find it a beautiful sight to watch.
<Yes, it is a beautiful thing to watch.>
However after reading more into it I have noticed that Anemone's in Captivity don't have a long life span, 11 months if you are exceptionally lucky but most likely 3 months.
<Anemones are successfully being kept alive for many years in captivity. It is really not an issue of luck. If you have a healthy anemone, proper equipment and environment you should have no issues keeping an anemone alive and healthy for many years. A lot of research and planning will help you a lot.>
I know on this site you don't agree with Anemone purchase in captivity and after reading your info I understand and agree.
<I don’t agree with purchasing wild captured anemones. I do recommend purchasing propagated anemones.>
Since I do want to have a place for my Clown to host is there anything else you could suggest to have this same effect? Is it possible for a clown to host in a Torch Coral or any other Coral?
<Yes, anemones can host a Torch Coral, mushroom coral, leather coral, and many more.>
Would this damage the coral?
<No, but there is no guarantee that the clownfish will host even an anemone in captivity.>
I would appreciate any information you can give in hopes to have this type of symbiotic relationship with out having to take a perfectly happy anemone from its home.
<How long has your tank been set up? What equipment do you have on it? How big is your tank?>
I presently bought a clown fish and asked for them to keep it in there anemone tank so he will be use to the relationship of hosting.
<What species is the clownfish?>
Please Help. Thank you,
Trying to save the wild anemone: Ashley
<You’re welcome! Brenda>

Condylactis Anemones and Clownfish – 12/27/07
Hi.
<<Hello>>
Got a Condy anemone from the fish store.
<<Okay>>
This is my first.
<<I hope you did a bit of research on the genus/species first>>
I've heard many different opinions on this....are clowns and condos compatible?
<<Sometimes…sometimes not… Though I must admit to hearing more “success stories” than not re this association these days>>
I have maroon clown.
<<I hope it is a big Condylactis>>
Will either be a danger to the other?
<<Is always a possibility…but may very well be fine (How’s that for straddling the fence?). Truth is, it’s an unnatural association…but I “have” heard of it working>>
Do hermit crabs eat anemones?
<<The smaller commonly available and so-called “reef-safe” species shouldn’t be a problem>>
Also, I'd like to keep species from the same ocean, as you say.
<<Ah well, a commendable pursuit…but you have already failed this by mixing an anemone endemic to the tropical Western Atlantic Ocean with a clown fish (clownfish are not found in the Atlantic at all)>>
Any sites that list fish/inverts by origin?
<<Indeed there are… An excellent resource is fishbase.org for your finned finds, and some purposeful hunting on Coral Search at http://www2.aims.gov.au/coralsearch/coralsearch.php will help with corals... Other organisms of interest can likely be tracked down as to ocean/region/origin with some time and effort spent making keyword searches on the NET in general>>
Thanks!
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>

Re: Was Tang M I A/ Mixed Clowns, now: top-off water systems, mixing clowns/anemones in a large system
Hi Bob
<Ian>
Thought I would let you know that it appears as if the MIA Yellow Tang is being allowed back into the community although he is still being chased on occasion. It has taken a month but it looks like things will get back to normal.
Two questions if I may.
I store my RO in a 200 litre drum about 3 metres above the sump. Would it be possible to link in a small 5mm diameter tube at the base of the drum and feed directly into the sump with the end of the pipe at the max level I want.
<Yes>
As the water evaporates and the level drops it would allow the RO feed to top up. I would imagine the small diameter would not exert enough pressure to simply empty the drum.
Somehow I do not think this will work... sounds too simple, what do you think?
<Mmm, there are devices... some relying on floats, others that are mechanical in other ways (e.g. drip infusion bottles in medical applications), even tools that measure spg et al. that would be of use here. Am sure you don't want to suffer having all the water feed into the sump, overflow onto your floor... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/h20makeupfaqs.htm>
I have a rather large Clarkii Clown, at least 80mm plus a smaller Cinnamon Clown of about half that size. They seem to get on fine as long as the Cinnamon does not get close to the Clarkii's Carpet anemone. I would like to introduce a few other species of Clown, namely the true Percula and the Tomato clown.
<I see from below... that this is a very large system... You may get away with this>
I have managed to find one of each so far and am looking for another two and then possibly some other interesting specimen. I am housing them together in the refugium and I want to introduce a bubble anemone for all of them. I assume they will all get on together?
<Maybe... there are a number of possible outcomes here... with the dominant Clown (the Clark's) "hogging" all host anemones... possibly killing the BTA... it floating about causing trouble... Do take care to assure the new anemone is VERY well established (perhaps a plastic "cage" arrangement over it for a month or so) before exposing it here in your main system>
After a month or two I plan to introduce them all into the main display tank and place them as far away from the Clarkii as possible. The Clarkii is at the one end of a 2.5 metre tank which has about 2500 litres of water. I was also thinking of introducing them inside a largish see through plastic box for a week or two to get everyone accustomed to them.
<Worthwhile>
I really do not want to go to all this trouble and expense( The true Percula costs the equivalent of $100 and it is only about 15mm long!)
<Wow!>
to simply have the Clarkii make a meal out of them.
Sorry to drag this out but basically do you think this will work or should I simply keep them in the "specimen" tank?
<Mmm, if it were me, mine, I'd go the latter route... better to have just the carpet and one dominant clown (plus possibly a small, male mate...) in the large system>
many thanks
Ian
<As many welcomes. Cheers, Bob Fenner>