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FAQs on Clown Triggerfish Health
Related Articles: A Cruiser and A
Bruiser, the Clown Trigger, Balistoides conspicillum,
Triggerfishes (Family Balistidae),
Red
Sea Triggerfishes,
Triggers of the Cook
Islands
Related FAQs: The Clown Trigger 1,
Clown Triggers 2, Clown
Trigger Identification, Clown Trigger Behavior,
Clown Trigger Compatibility,
Clown Trigger Selection,
Clown Trigger Systems, Clown Trigger Feeding,
Clown Trigger Reproduction,
Genus Balistoides Triggers:
Balistoides Triggers,
Balistoides
Triggers 2, Balistoides Identification,
Balistoides Behavior,
Balistoides Compatibility,
Balistoides Selection,
Balistoides Systems,
Balistoides Feeding,
Balistoides Disease,
Balistoides Reproduction,
Triggerfishes in General:
Triggerfishes
in General,
Identification,
Selection,
Selection 2, Compatibility,
Behavior,
Systems, Feeding,
Diseases, Triggerfish
Health 2,
Reproduction,
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Purposeful cleaners may be seen as food.
Labroides phthirophagus Randall 1958, Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse.
Juv.
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Sick clown trigger, 6/11/08
Dear WWM,
<Hello>
I have had a 5" clown trigger for almost 9 months and recently his fins have
been getting cloudy (not the whole fin, just small parts, almost in a line).
I quickly put him in the hospital tank and treated with copper for seven days
and it all went away.
<Copper would not help cloudy fins, most likely environmental in nature.>
The other fish weren't infected and I left them be. (Picasso Trigger, Niger
Trigger, Yellow Tang, Blue Angel)
<Hope this is a big tank.>
Everyone was and still is eating fine, including the clown. I put the clown back
in the main tank with everyone after a week and everything was great.
Two days ago his fins went nuts with spots and I noticed the Picasso trigger had
it also, only A LOT less. I quickly took them out and put them in the hospital
with copper and let the others be. The next day the blue angel and tang had Ich
like spots so I took all the fish out and put them in a
separate hospital tank (all with the same water parameters).
<Ok, but remember to run the main tank fallow for at least 4 weeks to rid it of
this parasite.>
My local fish specialty store, after viewing a picture of the clown trigger,
told me that the spots were to big for Ich and that it looked like more of an
infection than a disease.
<Ich is a parasitic infection, so I'm not sure what they are talking about.>
They told me to treat with Melafix and see how that does.
<Tea tree oil, useless.>
The Niger, Yellow Tang and Blue angel are now almost Ich free but the Clown is
getting worse and the Picasso trigger is also (both in a separate
hospital tank).
<Check your water quality and copper levels.>
Any idea what this could be?
<Sure sounds like ich to me.>
I can send a picture if needed.
<Might help.>
I love my Picasso and Clown! I would hate for anything to happen to them!
Thank you,
AJ
<Welcome>
<Chris>Re: Sick clown
trigger 6/11/08
Hi Chris,
<Hello>
They told me it was a biological infection... I cannot explain what they
told me but to sum it up it was a biological infection.
<Too me ich would fall into this category.>
The tea tree oil seems to be helping the clown trigger, but it could
just be my imagination.
<Most likely it is just the ich going through it's lifecycle, it will
most likely return in force. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .>
Here is a picture. There are more spots now (including some on his body,
but those are disappearing) but all of them are cloudy. What is your
opinion?
Thanks,
AJ
<Looks to me like a pretty classic case of ich.>
<Chris> |
|
 |
Clown Trigger
with Cloudy Eye: 4-6-08
Good Morning Crew!
<Good Morning! Yunachin here!>
I noticed my clown trigger's left eye has turned white and cloudy today
(picture attached) . I also see a tiny little rip or something in the
eye. Is this a disease or due to aggression from the other smaller Humu
that is in the tank? They have been getting along fine.
<As it was just one eye, it was more than likely due to some physical
trauma, maybe from another fish, or even scratching it on a rock. I also
received your forwarded email about it doing better and I am glad. Keep
pristine water condition and feed food with vitamins to help keep his
immune system up and watch that eye incase anymore problems should
occur.>
As always, thank you for your help!
<Not a problem! –Yunachin>
Cheers
Gans |
|
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Clown Trigger
Parasite... or? – 03/18/08
Evening, Bob.
<Scott>
I hope that things are well for you.
<Yes, thank you>
I received this Clown Trigger last Wednesday, and since Friday I've
noticed this little bugger attached to the left front abdominal region.
<Mmmm>
I took him out of his holding tank Saturday and I was able to manually
remove the excess tissue, but it left an infected region behind. I
thought that maybe it was just damage from shipping. But then as of
tonight, it has grown back. It doesn't appear to have a mouth or other
form of attachment, but rather just a growth.
Can you determine what this is through the pics Im attaching?
<I can not... Some views look more like a bit of the intestine coming
out (I take it this fish has not fed)... When you pull on the matter,
does some sort of "end", cephalic in appearance or not, seem to be
embedded on the attached end? I would contact the shipper re this
specimen... send the pix along. My best guess is that this material is
part of the G.I. tract... that this fish is a goner... From collection
damage hence likely. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
--
Scott C. Wirtz |
|

Re: Clown Trigger Parasite – 3/18/08
On the contrary...he eats like a champ. He does appear a bit skinny,
but I figured that he just needed to fatten up a bit.
It doesn't appear to be coming out of an opening of any sort. I can pull
off what is hanging free, and what is left over appears to be attached
to the exterior. The best way to explain it is when you have a scab on
your body and after you go swimming for a while it turns white and soft.
That is what is left over after I remove any loose tissue. I can see the
pigmentation of the scale surfaces through the material that is attached
to it. I will try to take a better picture today.
Scott C. Wirtz
<Dang! I wish I were there... could you scrape about all of it away? If
it's a "worm", or parasitic worm-like crustacean... it should "die off"
completely with most of it removed... Perhaps a
Merthiolate/Merbromin/mercurochrome swipe with a cotton swab or ball
press after this peremptory surgery... BobF>
Owner
Re: Clown Trigger Parasite
I honestly didn't try to scrape it all off, just the loose material.
When I get back to the lab tonight, I will try a little harder. Should I
try to get it on a slide ?
Scott C. Wirtz
<Mmm... or just twixt your fingers... am now thinking that what we're
seeing, removing is some sort of congealed coelomic fluid, connective
tissue... BobF>
Re: Clown Trigger Parasite
How does coelomic fluid attach to the exterior surfaces?
<As stated... congealed, perhaps microbially populated... along with
mesenterial tissue>
2 or 3 days after removing the excess tissue a "new" portion of tissue
is hanging free.
<Well... not intestine, no other parts in this area... doubtful this is
a zoonotic event... B>
Ah, I get it now.
Thanks !
<Welcome! B> |
Sick Clown Trigger, QT, Health 9/14/07
Hi guys i have a clown trigger question
<Ok>
I purchase my clown trigger from my LFS a week ago. When I brought him he had a
white spot on he's fin i treated it with CopperSafe and it went
away.
<Will probably return without running the tank fallow, your system now has Ich.
Appropriate QT procedures will avoid these types of problems.>
But Now he hides under my live rock all day!
<He is probably still infested with ich and not feeling well, added to this the
new environment and tankmates.>
He swims around only when i put some flakes out there and he see or smells them
floating around then he starts eating them. After he's done he goes right back
under the live rock and sits there like he's a hawk fish waiting for food.
<Stress behavior, typical safety measure for triggers, which is how they got
their name. Also flake food is not a very good staple for this fish.>
Also my water temp is
Night 88degress
Day 92
<Wow, way too high, need to keep this in the low 80s at most and more
consistent.>
Nitrate a little bit
<?>
Nitrite 0
Alk 0
Ph 8.3
<Chris>
Re: Free clown trigger 8/7/07
Thanks for the reply, the lady who had the clown trigger before me had
copper in her display, so it was kind of like a quarantine tank.
<Mmm... highly doubtful a reasonable/ly consistent concentration was kept>
I put copper in mine a couple years ago and some snails told me it hasn't gone
away :( Should I add some copper because I know I will never have inverts anyway
with my fish. And by the way, would a maroon clown be okay to put with a blue
tang and yellow tang for a doctor's office tank? Thanks!
<... please learn to/use the search tool, indices on WWM... This and a great
deal of related information is clustered for your edification there. RMF>
Help baby clown trigger cloudy eyes. Too
small a world, poisoned... 7/14/07
Hi, I got my baby clown trigger 6 days ago. From my LFS I had it on hold for
two weeks and last Saturday I pick it up.
<Okay>
It was doing great I saw it eat at the LFS and when I got it at home I feed it a
little more brine shrimp and it ate it.
<I'd steer away from offering much Artemia... see WWM re>
Then 3 days later I saw some white dots on its fins and thought it was ick so I
treated the tank
<... with?>
(30 gallon 36w18h12 wide)
<Much too small...>
and noticed a day later it had cloudy eyes and kept treating the tank.
<Uhh... the "treatment" is likely poisoning your Trigger, causing the eye
trouble...>
It was eating and then today when I went to feed it was still hiding under a
rock and did not eat what should I do I am really worried. The only other fish
is a strawberry Dottyback and I am treating the tank with QuickCure please help.
Thank You
<Formalin and... Please... read on WWM re this material/product... and the
article et al. on the species you list... Your problems are of your own making
here. Bob Fenner>
Clown Trigger
Help Please, apparent int. parasite issue – 06/14/07
Hi Crew,
I trust you are well.
<Well... I'm about half asleep... but all the parts seem to be here,
functioning>
I have a 120 UK gallon tank with a 3ft miracle mud sump system and about 5kg of
live rock in the main system.
Water parameters are PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 20-25 & Nitrite 0.
<Do keep your eye on the Nitrate...>
I have in the aquarium a 7inch Clown Trigger & 2 blue yellow tail damsels
<Popcorn>
each about 1.5cm in size, damsels are mainly to entertain the trigger.
<Like we find fish and chips entertaining? With malt vinegar and HP of course>
I purchased the Trigger about 3-4 weeks ago and he took a few days to feed like
Triggers normally do, but was soon feeding twice a day on a number of mussels
and white bate, although his stomach always looked empty and pinched by the time
I came back from work each evening?
<Mmm, likely has some internal parasite issues... and also are just very active
animals...>
Over the past few days his colour keeps fluctuating to a greyer white and he
seems to be hiding in the rocks slightly more, he also is taking food but then
spits it out again, his stomach has been pinched and empty for a day or two now!
<Mmmmm>
Oh and he also has been digging in the sand and has a small amount of damage to
his lower body fin but this may be related to the digging, otherwise he has no
wounds at all.
I have never had this kind of issue with Triggers before and am concerned for
his well being!
Any suggestions on possible illness or ways to increase his appetite would be
much appreciate
Kind Regards
Darren
<Well... you could wait, hope this animal is simply "going through" an
adjustment period... to being in captivity, your system... Or you could try a
course of treatments to rid it of internal worms and protozoans... with an
anthelminthic (perhaps Praziquantel) and anti-protozoal... (maybe
Metronidazole)... Both/all are described, MO proscribed on... WWM.
Bob Fenner>
Stupid trigger? Mmm, no, but going blind... from? 2/25/07
Hello,
<Kwon>
Thanks for all the wonderful info on your site. They're really helpful. But I
can't seem to find info on my problem.
I have a 3" clown trigger in a fish only 55 gal tank with 50lb live rocks.
<Mmm, you know this fish needs more room... can/will likely become a terror...>
I have him for about 8 month now. Lately, I've notice that during feeding, he
charges towards the sinking food and miss it. He has no problem picking them off
the floor. He also bumps into the rocks a lot. Is there something wrong with his
eye sight? I see no physical damage on his eye nor body.
<There is likely a nutritional deficiency at play here... though the source of
the problem could be (smaller likelihood) an internal (eye) parasite... or even
less likely, a psychological result from the crowding...>
He just survived an ick attack about 4 month ago. Could that have damaged
something?
<Mmm, yes... depending on how the fish/system was treated... it may have been
neurologically poisoned. Bob Fenner>
Please advise.
Thanks.
Kwon.
Clown trigger ph problems - 02/15/07
Hello for the first time WWM crew!
<Fred>
I have several tanks of varying sizes and types, (fresh, salt, reefs,
predators etc.)
Although sometimes difficult to navigate, I have found your site to be a
wealth of knowledge and assistance. I am so impressed that I have become a
supporter. (something I've never done before)
My official first question to you is this:
As an individual with a full-time job (and then some) I tend to sometimes
let my testing go because all my critters seem to be doing great and I do
regular water changes. (I know, shame on me) But the damage is done and I am
trying to make it right. The school of hard knocks has taught me to check
the overall health of new specimens and ALWAYS quarantine. I have a 29 gal
that has been up and running for a year that I use for this. I quarantine
for 4 weeks.
<Great>
I bought a seemingly healthy, but small (1.5") clown trigger for my
fledgling predator tank (cycled, 6mos old). He has been in quarantine for
almost 3 weeks and has done great. Last night he ate and was fine. I came
home from work this morning to find him lethargic, panting, cloudy-eyed and
grayish.
<Mmm...>
I immediately went into panic mode. I checked water quality to find all
quality tests (Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite) within parameters except Ph. It
was unusually low (5-6 range).
My question is this:
Can exposure to low ph cause the symptoms I described or is there something
else I am missing?
<Not likely just pH... but also, not unusual for Clown Triggers to exhibit
such behavior as you describe... are clowns in more than appearance>
Also, is there anything I can do to save this fish? I have already added
Seachem Marine buffer 8.3. The ph is where it should be now.
I also eased the temperature up from 78 to 79.
My little clown trigger is hiding behind the aquarium heater and is still
panting. The lights just went out for the night without him eating anything
today.
<I urge patience here... if anything a good (25%) water change... with water
from your main/display system>
I use reef crystals and I make my own ro/di water.
I do religious water changes. In that tank (quarantine) I change 5gal every
2 weeks even when not being used.
Rotorjockey
<Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger ph problems - 02/15/07
Hello Again Bob,
<Fred>
I lost the battle with the clown trigger this morning.
<Rats!>
I'm to the point of feeling like it is a shame that the lives of these
creatures are put in the hands of novices such as myself.
<Mmm... life lessons for all>
I do intend, though, not to give up yet (because although this is a failure,
I have had many successes) but to be more diligent in my practices.
<Good>
In retrospect, the fish's eyes began to cloud up a few days before the rest
of the symptoms set in, but since he was eating fine and active, I just
dismissed it as I am just not familiar with this species.
Thank you VERY much for such a rapid response to my questions.
<Welcome>
I am truly impressed and look forward to advancing my hobby through you.
Like it or not, you're stuck with me!
Fred
<The scene at the end of the movie "Casablanca" comes to mind... Be chatting
my friend. BobF>
- Baby Clown Trigger -
I got my baby clown trigger in today from fishsupply.com. I must say I'm not
very happy. The fish came with TWO CLOUDY eyes. My wishful thinking is telling
me that maybe its normal for Clown Trigger fish for their eyes to appear cloudy?
<Cloudy eyes are not normal.> But I know its probably hopeless. <Not
so... make sure it's eating, has good water quality, and isn't being hassled by
other fish or getting sucked into the filter and it should pull through.>
Only reason I say that is because I remember having a HUMU HUMU and his eyes
always appeared cloudy but they really weren't. <I know what you're talking
about but the clown trigger eyes are not the same as the Huma Huma.> That's
just the way the looked and if u looked closely they were a real pretty blue.
You think this is the case with the Clown trigger? What can I do? I have a 5 day
guarantee on him but I'm sure he'll live for at least that long. <I agree with
you there... might want to at least talk to the folks where you bought it and
report its initial condition - perhaps ask what happens on the sixth day.>
Cheers, J -- >
Trigger With Ich 7-25-30
Hi my name is Paula <Cody here, sorry for the delay.>and I
purchased a tiny clown trigger from the
company I work for. I never acclimated it to the system when it came in at work.
I
brought it straight home and put it into a twenty gal. with 15 pounds of live
rock and 2 maroon clowns the clowns do not bother it. I noticed the trigger
clown had ich on it's fin before leaving work and was hoping that
being in an
established system the fish could recover on it's own. Before going any
farther my ammonia is 0 ppm my nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are 10 ppm and
salinity is 1.018. I purchased the fish Thurs. it's now Tues. (5 days) no better
no
worse eats great a little shy unless he's being fed but is doing well so far.
My dilemma is do I wait or treat with Coppersafe now. I have a 75 gal. with a
Foxface rabbit, regal and yellow tang, blue fin angel, yellow headed goby,
bi-color and lawn mower blennies, snowflake moray which will eventually go in
with the trigger, and a Percula clown with two cleaner shrimp and a fire shrimp.
The only time I have ever had a problem with Ich is when I first brought the 75
gal. home stalked with 1/2 the fish in it now, bought from individual already
set up. That was a chore in it's self I carried 60 gal. of water back with me
and kept all rock submersed separate from fish. This is the last fish I am
buying for a long time I have wanted a clown trigger for several years but knew
it was not reef safe and it gets so large I wasn't ready to tackle that feet
until my reef was complete. Anyway I haven't dealt with triggers much I know
what they eat and what they are like but am concerned with how the clown trigger
will react to the Coppersafe. Also I don't like using this with out knowing a
little more about how to mix it, I have purchased a copper test kit but
Coppersafe doesn't have the number amounts just teaspoon or what ever. What is
the
amount I should achieve and how long do I keep it their. I have read .35 and
others .25 and others as high as .50 although I feel .50 is probably to hi what
amount will actually kill the parasite after it falls of the fish? Or should I
try something else? wait it out? Lower salinity How low is low enough? I thought
1.016 but I have read 1.010 is that to low? I have a 2 1/2 inch cleaner would
a 2 inch or less Clown trigger kill him? I fear yes if not I will try
the
cleaner shrimp first?<The trigger would probably eat the
cleaner. Just add copper until the correct level is reached, put
about 15 drops in the tank, if you are using the 20 gal. Then add
more drops as needed. I would shoot for copper levels around
.2-.25. Also if you want to keep the LR live you will need to take it
out before treating. It would be best to also have no substrate as it
can absorb the copper. The rock will need to sit in a separate
container for at least a month before it can be put back in with
fish. It would be best to also have no substrate as it can absorb the
copper. Also if you use copper I would keep the salinity up to normal
levels.> What do I do??? Help!
Our poor Clown Trigger
First off, hello and hope you all are doing well. Hopefully, this question will become helpful to others that might have the same scenario!
<I hope so too>
Secondly, my wife and I have a 70 gallon tank which, after the rocks and crushed coral and fish added is, about 60 or 55 gallon. We have 5 fish
total:
-Spottyback Wrasse (purple body with orange face and gnarly teeth only approx. 3"=healthy)
-Yellow Tang (approx. 4"=healthy)
-Foxface (approx. 6"=healthy)
-Huma Trigger (which I bought about 2 years ago for my wife's birthday as she is the Trigger collector which is approx. 3"=healthy)
-Clown Trigger (which I bought WITH the Huma who is now approx. 5" or so=EATING BUT LAZY and LETHARGIC!!!).
<Mmm, this tank is too crowded... psychologically... and soon to be physiologically... If you wanted to keep just what you list here
you'll need a few hundred gallons>
We just did a 50% water change about 1 week ago and they all seemed fine. Tests were all perfect (we've had the tank now over 3 years with the two
Triggers added just 2 years ago). The wife tells me that "trigger's like to play silly games. they pretend to be sick and lay at the bottom until you
walk over to check on them only to find out they are fine. Let's just keep an eye on
him/her to see how it is doing and keep a log".
Now, I have never had a saltwater tank, she and her brother had a 150 or so when they were
teenagers that fell over after the Northridge Earthquake with approx. 2-3K worth of equip.,
livestock, etc., so, she has had more "practice". I do notice when I go to feed them, the Clown is very active. Today, this
morning, I was sitting with my a.m. coffee and noticed the Foxface and Yellow Tang pecking at the Clown's "poo" and the Clown was just LAYING
THERE! So, I went up to the tank and behold, the Clown starts doing his usual barrel rolls, swimming horizontally...etc. My questions/comments are:
1. I'm disgusted that the fish even eat poo that hasn't come out yet! YUCK!-Is this normal?
<Yes, and not harmful in general>
2. WHY is the Huma (which secretly I like more but will never tell the wife) SO much SMALLER? BTW...HATES seaweed...eats only krill and Trigger formula.
<Different species... propensity for growth is less and ultimate size...>
3. Is the Clown doing this for attention or is there something wrong?
<Not likely anything "wrong"... your wife is correct in stating re their play behavior... this fish is very likely "just bummed" out... >
4. The wife keeps telling me "don't get attached to the fish, they eventually get too big for our tanks and we will eventually have to trade
them in for smaller fish"...is this true? I really love all the fish we've had so far and they have been with us for 3 years! I really would hate to
trade them in. I would love to get a bigger tank but with that comes more work and focus and we have a baby on the way. Is there a peaceful
resolution?
<Not really... your wife is correct here as well...>
5. Is my tank "okay" as far as inhabitants? The only thing I notice as far as "aggression" is, the Huma keeps getting it's butt kicked by the Wrasse
only because it wants the Wrasse's "home"!
<It is not okay... is way too crowded, stressful... equivalent to you living in something space-wise like your house with a bull and a bear...>
That's it...let me know if I missed anything.
<Mmm, all seems well-written, complete... I would trade the Clown Trigger in or get a much larger system... with plans to get one or more even much larger systems down the near road. Bob Fenner> Discolored Clown Trigger... poor mix, environment (Marina
Looks for Photos..)
I have a 4 month old Long 30 gallon tank. heavily filtered. Prizm (H.O.T.) skimmer, old school gulf stream wet dry filter, 8 lbs live rock, phosphate absorbing media, carbon,
PolyFilter. Also left in the undergravel filter, (covered by very little gravel) with 2 powerheads to pump the fish waste back up to the skimmer (ideally.)
<Mmm, am sure you realize the requirements of substrate with UG filters, their shortcomings/strengths>
I have more bio balls on order to increase the nitrifying bacteria for the system. I currently fight the nitrite with heavy skimming and a 1/3 water change weekly. currently levels are 2.5 PPM nitrite and 30 ppm nitrate. everything else is ideal.
<... any nitrite is dangerous...>
I have
1 Niger trigger 2.5 inches,
1 nano undulating trigger 1 inch, <<A what?>>
1 Royal Gramma 2 inches (lives in barnacles)
4 brave and fast damsels
3 Emerald Crabs (clean up crew)
and a 2 inch clown trigger.
<... crazy to have this much fish life in an uncycled system>
everyone gets along.
<Mmm, for now perhaps... apparently>
- I know that your recommendations are for huge tanks with triggers, but I live in NYC and the triggers live as we do, in well laid out, small quarters. sleeping places for all and a good
circuit to do laps. I do not want to reduce stock or trade in until they grow too big 1+ inch growth.
I purchased the clown trigger 3 weeks ago. The clown trigger survived and ich infestation 10 days ago. I treated with a 5 minute fresh water dip, and then treated with copper. When I bought the clown it had some discoloration, but was eating well, and was an excellent price retail at $49.00. I decided to bring it home and with
TLC bring it back to fighting strength. After undergoing medication, the clown is eating well, although only brine shrimp or Mysis. Does not seem to have the desire to attack the krill like the
Niger.
On one side of its body the colors are perfect. The photo attached is of the other side.
There are white discolored patches. under close observation, it does not look to be fungus. Although the fins have some white bits forming, perhaps bacteria attacking post ich?
<Mmm, no, at least not immediately, directly the problem... the source of troubles here is/are environmental... nitrite, likely transient ammonia, too much stress from unnatural assortment, crowding>
Also the pectoral fins appear to be enduring some rot. I am going to the LFS to buy some Maracyn, is this the best course of action, given I am dedicated to not making tank size change or
destocking? Also how long should scales take to grow back if scrapped from netting or shipping?
<Mmm, no... antibiotics period are not a good idea in main/display systems... this one, Erythromycin is not a good idea period>
Thanks for your help, your site is very interesting.
- JR
<Keep the nitrite down below 1.0 ppm... through huge water changes, careful feeding, add more substrate, get a bigger tank/s. Bob Fenner> Trigger = Eating Machine (3/2/05)
I have recently upgraded my aquarium and have invested in a 300 Gallon system.
<I am green with envy.>
I have not yet stocked the tank but ultimately want to put a clown trigger in it.
<Cool fish. Great tank for it.>
I know from reading your previous Q&A that this fish has great personality but may tend to be somewhat aggressive.
<Variable personality. It's one of the "less aggressive" members of the family.> <<RMF
disagrees... this fish often is an unholy terror when large>>
If I placed a small trigger (say 2") into this system with a flame angel, a few damsels (green
Chromis, 3 stripe, yellow tail), a few percula, some regal tangs, and invertebrates (snails, hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp, brittle stars) and coral (hard and soft) what would be the outcome. My gut tells me to kiss the inverts and damsels good-bye.
<Smart guts.>
Any advice given is appreciated. Thanks in advance.-Rob
<The Trigger will eventually eat all of the inverts. Mine nipped at the "chips" on my starfish, so I eventually got rid of it. It did leave my big green brittle stars alone. Check the picture on WWM of a Trigger eating a Linckia star. Smaller fish are eventually at risk as well. Damsels can be very
aggressive with each other. A "few" Perculas may not get along so well either. What do you mean by "some Regal Tangs?" Are you moving some fish from another tank? Have you considered a pair of Maroon Clowns rather than a "few perculas?" If you decide to go FOWLR, which you must if you have the Trigger, you might consider fewer interesting big fish rather than a bunch of small ones. Examples would be a Snowflake Eel (no small tankmates), Lunare (beautiful fish) Wrasse or Bird Wrasse, a larger angel or butterfly. With plenty of $, a pair of
Chaetodon semilarvatus would really look great. If you want corals and other inverts, you will have to choose strictly "reef-safe" fish. Consider a harem of fairy wrasses. I'm getting excited just thinking of all the possibilities for a tank of this size. My most important advice is to be very, very patient. Research and plan and move slowly. This patience will really pay off. Hope this helps. Steve Allen>
Who's Afraid of Clowns?
I have an 8" masked puffer (Arothron diadematus) in a well furnished 90 gal-
alone! this is because I adore him and my experience tells me that the
utmost caution is needed when selecting tankmates in even the most docile
communities else tank mates soon become snacks.
so I really want to add another fish with a little bit of color and an
equally charming personality and I have become fixated on clown triggers.
of course I had to pick one of the most aggressive types of fish and one of
the rudest species in the bunch. if I add a very small clown trigger
am I
testing fate? would a Picasso trigger be equally as risky? or can these
fish mix, assuming I keep a watchful eye?
thanks.
Reuben
Hello Reuben,
This puffer will attain a decent size, big enough to warrant having that tank
all to himself. One of the last fish I would consider putting in with him is a
clown trigger. Clowns almost always end up needing a tank of their own, and when
they DO work out long term in a setting with multiple fish, it's almost always
in a very large tank. Remember that aside from being very aggressive, clown
triggers attain a size approaching 2 feet in the wild - 20 inches or so
actually. In captivity they max out much smaller, but can be relied upon to
reach a size of 15" or so. Much to large for your 90 gallon, even if he was by
himself.
A MUCH better choice would be a Huma Huma trigger. Triggers of this genus are
much smaller, and they grow VERY slowly. Annoyingly slow actually if you're
trying to grow up a show specimen. Good news for you though! They are much less
belligerent as well. Start with a small individual, and you should be good to go
for quite some time. The trigger itself will never outgrow that tank.
One warning though, keeping only two fish is often a bad recipe for a tank of
any kind unless you have a pair. One fish will always be dominant, and will
often badger the other fish relentlessly with no other fish present to take out
it's aggressions. Nothing is all the time though, and if you start out with a
small trigger, you may not have any issues. Try a 3" Huma Huma or
Rectangulus.
Nothing left to say but, give it a try!
Good luck
Jim***
Help! Sick Clown Trigger
Hello,
<Hi, Mike D here>
You guys have been nothing but helpful before, so I'm back again in need of your expertise. I have a 2 year old 55 gallon saltwater tank. It contains
some live rock, a large sailfin tang, large maroon clownfish, a rainbow wrasse, a medium-small lionfish, and a medium-large (4" or so)
clown trigger.<Ouch! You are already maxed out on population with some major
growing occurring as we speak...you have some hard choices ahead in your
immediate future>
Everyone in the tank is doing fine, eating well, swimming around . . . except
my
clown trigger. I've had him almost 2 weeks, and he's been doing great. A
few days ago, I noted some suspicious white spots that looked all too familiar,
so I dipped him for 10 min. in a Hydroplex freshwater dip. The spots have
not returned (my UV sterilizer should have kept that from happening to begin
with).<I assume you're referring to ick and 1) the spots disappearing doesn't
mean that the freshwater dip worked, as it's part of the lifecycle of the fish,
with each "spot" that disappeared falling off and splitting into up to 200 new
smaller parasites to re-infect your fish. Often what happens is this second,
stronger infection begins where it's not seen, in the gills! Another fallacy is
that the UV sterilizer will cure/control ick, which it almost universally does
not. Read the FAQs on UV sterilizers and I think you'll find what I mean.> Last
night, I notice the trigger did not have his usual appetite, and
did not eat. I just got home from work today, and he's lethargically moping
around the bottom of the tank, breathing rapidly, and again, refusing to eat
even when the food is in front of him. The water has had a recent change,
tests appeared normal, all other fish are doing as well as usual. What might
be wrong? Is there anything I can do?<I'd suggest removing to a separate
hospital tank and begin your treatment of choice for Ick (there are many..
hyposalinity, dips, formalin treatments, etc.> This is my prize fish! I just
got him
at a once a year store sale for 50 bucks off! That won't happen again . . .
. any ideas that can help me?<Again, hospitalize/Quarantine and treat for Ick
as it's likely infesting his gills (often new fish that have been stressed will
be parasitized while healthy, established fish will remain largely or completely
normal due to their immune system and slime coats functioning at 100%) Once
you've beaten this problem you need to start considering that both Sailfin Tangs
and Clown Triggerfish get HUGE in a fairly short time (2-3 years) and will need
a MUCH bigger tank ASAP.....imagine a full sized football painted the same color
as your little clown trigger and you're looking at a 2/3 grown specimen, keeping
in mind that marine fish do not grow only to the size of the tank they are in
like some freshwater fish. Good Luck!>
Thanks a billion,
-Dave
Sick Clown Trigger
Thanks Mike.
<You're more than welcome>
Sadly, I awoke to day to find my clown trigger has gone on to a better
place. Yet, thank you kindly for your advice. You're advice about tank size
with
the animals I have will be a major factor in future considerations.
<At least he didn't die in vain then. Clowns in particular are actually well
known for being extremely delicate as small juveniles and indestructible as
adults, where they BECOME the major cause of death for other tankmates>
Thanks again,
-Dave
Large clown trigger
Hi Bob,
Glad to hear from you again, how was your trip to Cooks? Were you there on
assignment?
<Fine, and "self-sponsored" assignment this time... making pix, visiting hashers and Chip Boyle...>
I will collect my trigger tomorrow morning ( 14/10/00 ).I'm a bit
excited because I was told that it is a fine specimen and over 8" ( cost
me about US55+ ).
<A bargain.>
Bob I read your articles on acclimation and I want to ask you why
usually when I tested the shipping water it is always towards acidic (7.4 )? And I have to slowly bring it up to 8.4 level before I dip it in
fresh water with same PH and added with Methylene blue for 2 minutes, am I
doing the right thing ?
<The pH drops due to a combination of a loss of alkaline/reserve and respiratory and waste product production... best to very, very slowly raise the pH... through acclimation and to not allow any of the shipping water (laden with ammonia typically)
to be transferred in the process... Take a look on the site: Home Page re "Guerilla Acclimation">
Or is it better to dip in salt water added with Maroxy ( Mardel ) for a
couple of minutes?
Was is your advice?
Hope I hear from you in time.
David.
Trigger Happy!!! >>
<Better to lower pH of the mixing water with a dilute soln. of HCl, or other
acidifier, and know what you're doing here... and aerate the mixed solution, allowing the pH to rise over an hour or more time, while aerating the mix water, and use either the
Methylene blue and/OR the Maroxy...
Bob Fenner, who warns all, this is for MOST types of marine fishes, not all, and NOT invertebrates>
Clown Trigger
Hi, I started a new tank and it has been cycled for 2 weeks now.
I have a clown trigger that has taken a turn for the worst in the past couple
of days.
He has gray patches that have started to connect and his color has been
fading. He is breathing very heavy and his fins have cloudy patches he has
had these symptoms for the past 3 weeks. I first thought it was ick and threw
in some medication for ick that did not help. I then threw in Melafix that
did not work and then tried CopperSafe that didn't work and now someone told
me to use copper power which I threw in but has not worked either.
<Yikes... this is a bunch of toxic medications... your Clown Trigger may have originally been reacting to most anything behaviorally... environmentally... You state that the tank has only been cycled for two weeks, and yet the Trigger was exhibiting "symptoms" for three weeks? This time frame is too short to be placing fish livestock...>
Before
adding any new medication I ran my filter system with carbon for 2 days to
get rid of the medication I previously used.
<Good idea>
Last night I did a 25% water
change and turned on my 15 watt U.V light. I also tried giving him a fresh
water dip but he started to go on his side in a minute and a half I got
scared and quickly put him back in the tank.
The numbers for my tank are
Gravity - 1.22
Ammonia - None
PH - 8.4 I have been using PH 8.2 but my ph keeps on rising it was at 8.6
<Do have your test kit checked... and try not to worry if the pH "only" gets this high... that is, I wouldn't try to "correct it"... in time the pH will start to drift down of its own accord>
Nitrite - none
Other fish in tank include 6 damsels and one panther grouper they show no
sign of anything.
I don't know if I'm making any sense but if you can help me I would greatly
appreciate it.
<Is this Trigger still eating? How large is this tank? Do you have live rock in it? Filtration/aeration? I would increase the latter, add some live rock and leave all else alone. Patience my friend. Please read over the Marine Set-Up and Maintenance sections of our site: www.WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger
The aeration that I use is coming from the
return. should I be worried that this is a disease or just stress related.
<Mostly stress>
I
do not have any live rock in my tank just 1 piece of moon rock.
<As stated, I would add some>
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in the previous email that 3 weeks ago he
had a small open sore that looks like its all healed. should I be worried
about a disease in my tank and if so why have none of the other fish
contracted the disease. Thank you for your quick response.
<I wouldn't be concerned about this previous sore>
I just wanted to get your opinion on what I did and if you have any other
suggestions regarding my clown trigger. I removed the moon rook from my tank
Because of the high effect it has on raising ph. I also but 3 pounds of live
rock I have a 90 gallon tank should I buy more.
<Yes. Look for "whole box" deals from e-tailers... or make a deal with your local fish store for same... much cheaper>
The clown has not eaten for
about 4 - 5 days. I performed a water change like I told you 3 days ago should
I do another one in a couple of days or not.
<I would hold off on water changes. Do try placing an entire "cocktail shrimp" (sans sauce of course, or a piece of frozen/defrosted krill... Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger
I also noticed that the clown triggers stomach looks swollen but he hasn't
eaten for 4 - 5 days is that of any concern.
<Yes... perhaps this Clown Trigger is eating something... Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger
I'm sorry for being such a pain but this morning I tested my water and my
numbers were as follows.
Nitrite - 0.20
Ammonia - 0.50
PH - 8.6
Nitrate - 40
I know I did a water change and the numbers go up but that was 4 days ago is
their anything I should do or just wait it out.
<Something is not right here... you ammonia and nitrite s/b zero as in nothing... Please read through the www.WetWebMedia.com site re "biological filtration", "marine set-up", "ammonia", "nitrite"... Hopefully what is wrong will come to your awareness by this process... in the meanwhile don't feed this tank, and do change your water (with pre-made... do read the "synthetic seawater" sections as well) if the NH3 or NO2 approaches 1.0ppm. Study my friend will save your livestock. Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger
The fish has not been eating for the past couple of days. Should I be feeding
him certain food right now I am feeding him Formula 1, Krill, and frozen
squid I like to switch it up.
<Good idea... this is enough types for now>
My tank size is 90 gallons I have a wet dry
filter 15 U.V a 303 powerhead for circulation I also have a Prizm skimmer
that I have not hooked up yet.
<I would... good, better water quality is a definite plus>
The aeration that I use is coming from the
return. should I be worried that this is a disease or just stress related.
<Mostly stress>
I
do not have any live rock in my tank just 1 piece of moon rock.
<As stated, I would add some>
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in the previous email that 3 weeks ago he
had a small open sore that looks like its all healed. should I be worried
about a disease in my tank and if so why have none of the other fish
contracted the disease. Thank you for your quick response.
<I wouldn't be very concerned re actual parasitic or infectious disease here... Please read through the following:
http://wetwebmedia.com/tanktroubleshting.htm
on tank troubleshooting... Keep studying my friend. Bob Fenner>
Re: clown trigger
A quick update it looks like the end is near for my clown his colorful
leathery skin has no been reduced to what looks to be smooth chalky skin.
His gills look to have disintegrated and his breathing has gotten heavy from
his gills not being able to take in enough oxygen. He no longer can swim when
ever he tries to he falls to the side. I know this is a dumb question but is
their anything else I can do. I can't stand to see the fish suffer like this
if the end is near I would like to flush him down the toilet then watch him
suffer.
<I understand, and share your sympathies. If you are assured that the end is nigh for your Clown Trigger, a humane way of bringing its suffering to an end is to place it in a small volume of water (let's say half a cup) in a plastic bag and place it in the freezer. Bob Fenner>
Phosphates
Hi Bob,
Glad you're around to help!!! I'm having a problem with my LFS. I bought a clown trigger from him and two days later he died.
<Mmm, what sort of symptoms? Did the fish eat... ever? What else do you have in your system that is doing well? Need more clues...>
I went back for a refund and he tested my water. My ph is 8.0, ammonia 0.0, nitrites 0.o, nitrates 15. He also tested for phosphates and said I was at 10.
<Yeeikes, this is HIGH!>
I thought phosphate problems were mostly related to algae, I don't have an algae
problem.
<Unusual that you don't have a bunch of algae growing here... I would test your water elsewhere/wise>
This tank also has a lion fish, snowflake eel, valentini puffer and a damsel. No problems with them. I also found out that my LFS keeps his ph at 8.8.
<What? Really... strange... not easy to do, safely... and many downsides in event of other troubles...>
I harden my fish for 2 hours, slowly mixing my tank water with the LFS water before I release. So needless to say, he refused the refund. Is the high phosphates the cause of death or possibly the big change in ph? Thanks again for your help........Paul
<Maybe a bit of both... this whole situation doesn't add up though... Ten ppm of soluble phosphate is very unusual period... w/o enormous algal problems almost unbelievable... a store maintaining a pH (likely with
Kalkwasser and careful use of calcium chloride) to maybe precipitate phosphate (?) is unprecedented/unknown to me otherwise... and to lose what appears to be such a tough species of fish so easily in the face of the other livestock you list... anomalous to say the least. I would ask for at least partial credit or be shopping elsewhere. You are welcome to forward, show my opinions to your dealer. Bob Fenner>
Help with clown trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Bob!
I realize by the time you respond my fish may be dead, but its worth a try. I have a seven inch clown trigger which
I've had for three years in a 75 gallon tank along with a Arothron puffer, purple tang, and a wrasse. I just noticed my trigger is on the bottom of the tank laying on his side, breathing normally, maybe a little shallow. When fish approach he flaps his fins but cannot swim. When he tries he remains bent and has no control. He has been very still for a few hours now. I fed the other fish, they are perfectly normal. This is the first situation
I've had in five years so I'm a little caught off guard and don't know where to turn. I hope you can help and at least give me some preventive knowledge. Do fish die of old age?
<They do, but this one is not old... May have eaten something "that didn't agree with it"... or be "pulling your fins"...>
Thanks Bob, I know you are very busy but I don't trust anyone else's expertise.
<No worries... I would do the S.O.P. of a water change, add carbon to the filter flow path, check water quality... Hopefully the fish "swallowed a bug that fell in" or is just "clowning around"... and will recover soon. Bob Fenner>
Sick clown triggerfish?
I have a clown triggerfish that is about 4 inches long. He still eats well and swims around all day, but, his color is fading out in spots all around him! What is this? Please help, and quick!!! Thanks, -Kevin
<Mmm, either nutritional deficiency, "poor" water quality, or behavioral display/mal-adjustment. Please read through the Triggerfish materials archived on our site, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm on to the linked files, FAQs in blue above. Bob Fenner>
Clown Trigger with Digenetic Trematodes
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels>
I have to say that I am a HUGE fan, I have read your book at least twice cover
to cover, and is my bible for aquarium keeping!!
<yes, we are in agreement>
I recommend your book to everyone interested in keeping a saltwater tank, and
can say you have a lot of fans on Saltwaterfish.com's message board! Now to my
question, I have a Clown Trigger, that I have had for three years, very recently
my impeller on my filter broke and the filter stopped working, for at least 24
hours; shortly after this incident the trigger developed small white spots on
both pectoral fins, they did not seem to bother him, I did not worry to much, as
I thought it must be a small bout with ick, which I was sure he would fight off.
Now, two months later, he still has them; they still do not seem to bother him
(by that I mean, he is not darting about the tank, or scratching on rocks)
however, he has had some unusual behavior , such as hanging around in the
bubbler and after eating, finding a place to rest on the bottom.
<yes... one of the signs of some kind of parasites in the gills>
I am thinking after a lot of reading, he may have some type of worm (digenetic
trematodes). I do soak the food in Kent's Garlic Xtreme, and would like to know
if I should take further measures of treatment, and if so what type of
medication would work best. Thank you so very much. J. Marshall
<treatment in a quarantine tank specifically (not in main display) with
Formalin is recommended. Follow manufacturers recommended dose as per
instructions. Best regards, Anthony>
Clown Trigger
Hello there, I have had a 55 gal tank up and going for several months. I added a
Picasso trigger who seems to be doing fine. My concern is I added a second Trigger fish (Clown) and he seem to be very
skittish and not swimming around even for food. He has only been in my tank for 2 days but I'm wondering if this is normal or should I be
concerned with this behavior?.
<too early to tell, although mixing trigger species is not usually a great idea. Issues with aggression are likely in the long run. In the meantime, the new fish could simply be getting used to the new climate and traffic patter of the house where the tank sits (big scary shadows suddenly walking by...hehe). Or, it could be intimidated by the presence of the other fish(es). There is always the possibility of disease too... aquarists really need to quarantine all new fish for 2-4 weeks before just throwing them into displays...
else it is like roulette with living creatures and pathogenic diseases. Do read more in the archives about proper QT. Patience in the meantime and careful observation.
Anthony>
Please help, Best Regards, Todd Pelletier
"Spot" the clown trigger
Dear WWM crew, I don't know if you will remember, but have emailed you before
about my clown trigger, thought he had metacercaria.
<I do>
However, now I believe
it to be more than just the encapsulated worms, I think he may also have
internal worms, need your help to diagnose.
<Of a certainty all fishes and humans do have internal worms of various sorts... are they of number, kind, placement, size to be of consequence is the question>
I have had spot for 3 1/2 years
and only in the last six months has he shown symptoms like periodic loss of
color, resting on the bottom with slow breathing. He is becoming less active
by the day, although he is always on the ball when it comes to feeding time.
I currently feed him FD krill soaked in ZOE vitamins, trigger formula, prime
reef formula, formula 2 and use garlic additives to the food also.
<Do add more/other whole fresh or frozen/defrosted meaty foods, drop out some of the prepared formulated foods>
He
appears to eat well, but spends most of his day on the bottom of the tank.
After he eats his belly seems to be full, but by the end of the day his belly
looks emaciated, almost like he is starving.
<Good description>
His tankmates include a zebra lionfish (2yrs) a Huma Huma trigger (4yrs) and a
sunset wrasse (1yr). The other fish have absolutely no symptoms, and are
eating healthy and active, with bright color. I pride myself on water
changes and keeping my tanks clean.
I have tried a few meds with Spot, but they seemed harder on him than what
was actually bothering him. I have used formalin and Praziquantel in
addition to feeding the garlic.
Right now, I feel like Spots quality of life is not what it should be, and
feel like he is suffering and it breaks my heart. I have read your site on
disease and also the book by Gerald Bassleer "Diseases in marine aquarium
fish" and just cannot find anything that fits his symptoms completely.
<You know... you might try "floating out" a fecal sample (can be collected easier in a bare tank (quarantine/treatment), and looking under a scope for eggs... perhaps definitive. I would consider trying lacing the foods the specimen takes readily with
Flagyl/Metronidazole... for three days or so... and see if the "wasting" subsides... other... vermifuges might be tried as well
(Piperazine, di-n-butyl tin oxide... and more modern compounds... from/via a veterinarian)...>
Truly
I am stumped with this one, and was hoping you might have a miracle cure. I
just finished setting up and cycling Spot's permanent home a 240G, but he was
to be the last fish added, as I was afraid any fish introduced after a
healthy "Spot" would be harassed to death.
<A wise arrangement/precaution>
Would it be worth it to add him
to the 240, just to see if he would perk up, should I just keep giving it the
wait and see approach, I guess really I want to know, how do I know he is
suffering and when it is time to say goodbye, which will probably be one of
the hardest things I could do.
<Not likely "suffering"... as in pain, remorse. Not to worry>
Thank you so much for your time and your knowledge, from an extremely
grateful hobbyist. J. Marshall
<I would wait, try the anti-protozoal, perhaps the deworming materials... and see if this animal retains mass, before moving. One last item/question back to you: Is there live rock in this system? I would definitely add some if not... in the hope that "something" missing in the animals diet or water quality might be restored. Bob Fenner>
"Spot" the clown trigger
Just some more info on "Spot", the night before he had lumps on both sides of his abdomen, they were considerable in size and oval shaped. He seemed to have to struggle to swim, not necessarily had an equilibrium problem, just struggling to move himself through the water. The next morning both lumps were gone, and he was waiting at the top of the tank to be fed. Then
last night, had another lump approximately the same size, but only on one side, seemed again to struggle through the water, and again this morning the lump is gone, and he is anxiously awaiting to be fed. Thought this info.
might help you make a diagnosis.
<bizarre... and rules out an actual growth(s). I'm wondering if this silly or greedy fish isn't gulping or snapping at bubbles at the surface or otherwise ingesting air?>
Will be looking for your reply, and again
Thank You!! J. Marshall
<very curious! Anthony>
Problem with Clown Trigger
Hello, Can you please help me.
<yes, indeed my friend>
I have a 60 gallon with a pearl butterfly, Koran angel, 4 damsels, and baby clown trigger.
<a very incompatible mix in long run.. the butterfly is likely to be intimidated and killed by angel or trigger and the trigger is a threat to all in time>
My clown trigger has developed a bad case of both eyes clouding up and are very swollen. It basically happened over one day.
<a bacterial infection that needs treatment in a bare bottomed quarantine tank promptly
(antibiotics will compromise other fishes/kill main bio filter)>
He can barely see, but is still trying to eat. He's also discolored (colors very faded). My angel also
has a little white coating on his front fins (they see to be a little rotted as
well). Again, that seems to have developed over the last couple days.
<do examine water quality... if bacterial, it is usually from poor water quality (low pH, lack of water changes, etc)>
Can you please recommend a treatment.
<Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone cocktail meds at double strength if FW brand daily for 5 days. Must be treated in bare
bottomed QT>
I just want to make sure I treat this the right way Thank you so much, Frank
<best regards, Anthony>
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