Sick Clown Trigger, QT, Health 9/14/07
Hi guys i have a clown trigger question
<Ok>
I purchase my clown trigger from my LFS a week ago. When I brought him he had a white spot on he's fin i treated it with CopperSafe and it went
away.
<Will probably return without running the tank fallow, your system now has Ich. Appropriate QT procedures will avoid these types of problems.>
But Now he hides under my live rock all day!
<He is probably still infested with ich and not feeling well, added to this the new environment and tankmates.>
He swims around only when i put some flakes out there and he see or smells them floating around then he starts eating them. After he's done he goes right back under the live rock and sits there like he's a hawk fish waiting for food.
<Stress behavior, typical safety measure for triggers, which is how they got their name. Also flake food is not a very good staple for this fish.>
Also my water temp is
Night 88degress
Day 92
<Wow, way too high, need to keep this in the low 80s at most and more consistent.>
Nitrate a little bit
<?>
Nitrite 0
Alk 0
Ph 8.3
<Chris>

Re: Free clown trigger 8/7/07
Thanks for the reply, the lady who had the clown trigger before me had copper in her display, so it was kind of like a quarantine tank.
<Mmm... highly doubtful a reasonable/ly consistent concentration was kept>
I put copper in mine a couple years ago and some snails told me it hasn't gone away :( Should I add some copper because I know I will never have inverts anyway with my fish. And by the way, would a maroon clown be okay to put with a blue tang and yellow tang for a doctor's office tank? Thanks!
<... please learn to/use the search tool, indices on WWM... This and a great deal of related information is clustered for your edification there. RMF>

Help baby clown trigger cloudy eyes. Too small a world, poisoned... 7/14/07
Hi, I got my baby clown trigger 6 days ago. From my LFS I had it on hold for two weeks and last Saturday I pick it up.
<Okay>
It was doing great I saw it eat at the LFS and when I got it at home I feed it a little more brine shrimp and it ate it.
<I'd steer away from offering much Artemia... see WWM re>
Then 3 days later I saw some white dots on its fins and thought it was ick so I treated the tank
<... with?>
(30 gallon 36w18h12 wide)
<Much too small...>
and noticed a day later it had cloudy eyes and kept treating the tank.
<Uhh... the "treatment" is likely poisoning your Trigger, causing the eye trouble...>
It was eating and then today when I went to feed it was still hiding under a rock and did not eat what should I do I am really worried. The only other fish is a strawberry Dottyback and I am treating the tank with QuickCure please help.
Thank You
<Formalin and... Please... read on WWM re this material/product... and the article et al. on the species you list... Your problems are of your own making here. Bob Fenner>

Clown Trigger Help Please, apparent int. parasite issue  – 06/14/07
Hi Crew,
I trust you are well.
<Well... I'm about half asleep... but all the parts seem to be here, functioning>
I have a 120 UK gallon tank with a 3ft miracle mud sump system and about 5kg of live rock in the main system.
Water parameters are PH 8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 20-25 & Nitrite 0.
<Do keep your eye on the Nitrate...>
I have in the aquarium a 7inch Clown Trigger & 2 blue yellow tail damsels
<Popcorn>
each about 1.5cm in size, damsels are mainly to entertain the trigger.
<Like we find fish and chips entertaining? With malt vinegar and HP of course>
I purchased the Trigger about 3-4 weeks ago and he took a few days to feed like Triggers normally do, but was soon feeding twice a day on a number of mussels and white bate, although his stomach always looked empty and pinched by the time I came back from work each evening?
<Mmm, likely has some internal parasite issues... and also are just very active animals...>
Over the past few days his colour keeps fluctuating to a greyer white and he seems to be hiding in the rocks slightly more, he also is taking food but then spits it out again, his stomach has been pinched and empty for a day or two now!
<Mmmmm>
Oh and he also has been digging in the sand and has a small amount of damage to his lower body fin but this may be related to the digging, otherwise he has no wounds at all.
I have never had this kind of issue with Triggers before and am concerned for his well being!
Any suggestions on possible illness or ways to increase his appetite would be much appreciate
Kind Regards
Darren
<Well... you could wait, hope this animal is simply "going through" an adjustment period... to being in captivity, your system... Or you could try a course of treatments to rid it of internal worms and protozoans... with an anthelminthic (perhaps Praziquantel) and anti-protozoal... (maybe Metronidazole)... Both/all are described, MO proscribed on... WWM.
Bob Fenner>

Stupid trigger? Mmm, no, but going blind... from?   2/25/07
Hello,
<Kwon>
Thanks for all the wonderful info on your site. They're really helpful. But I can't seem to find info on my problem.
I have a 3" clown trigger in a fish only 55 gal tank with 50lb live rocks.
<Mmm, you know this fish needs more room... can/will likely become a terror...>
I have him for about 8 month now. Lately, I've notice that during feeding, he charges towards the sinking food and miss it. He has no problem picking them off the floor. He also bumps into the rocks a lot. Is there something wrong with his eye sight? I see no physical damage on his eye nor body.
<There is likely a nutritional deficiency at play here... though the source of the problem could be (smaller likelihood) an internal (eye) parasite... or even less likely, a psychological result from the crowding...>
He just survived an ick attack about 4 month ago. Could that have damaged something?
<Mmm, yes... depending on how the fish/system was treated... it may have been neurologically poisoned. Bob Fenner>
Please advise.
Thanks.
Kwon.

Clown trigger ph problems  - 02/15/07
Hello for the first time WWM crew!
<Fred>
I have several tanks of varying sizes and types, (fresh, salt, reefs, predators etc.)
Although sometimes difficult to navigate, I have found your site to be a wealth of knowledge and assistance. I am so impressed that I have become a supporter. (something I've never done before)
My official first question to you is this:
As an individual with a full-time job (and then some) I tend to sometimes let my testing go because all my critters seem to be doing great and I do regular water changes. (I know, shame on me) But the damage is done and I am trying to make it right. The school of hard knocks has taught me to check the overall health of new specimens and ALWAYS quarantine. I have a 29 gal that has been up and running for a year that I use for this. I quarantine for 4 weeks.
<Great>
I bought a seemingly healthy, but small (1.5") clown trigger for my fledgling predator tank (cycled, 6mos old). He has been in quarantine for almost 3 weeks and has done great. Last night he ate and was fine. I came home from work this morning to find him lethargic, panting, cloudy-eyed and grayish.
<Mmm...>
I immediately went into panic mode. I checked water quality to find all quality tests (Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite) within parameters except Ph. It was unusually low (5-6 range).
My question is this:
Can exposure to low ph cause the symptoms I described or is there something else I am missing?
<Not likely just pH... but also, not unusual for Clown Triggers to exhibit such behavior as you describe... are clowns in more than appearance>
Also, is there anything I can do to save this fish? I have already added Seachem Marine buffer 8.3. The ph is where it should be now.
I also eased the temperature up from 78 to 79.
My little clown trigger is hiding behind the aquarium heater and is still panting. The lights just went out for the night without him eating anything today.
<I urge patience here... if anything a good (25%) water change... with water from your main/display system>
I use reef crystals and I make my own ro/di water.
I do religious water changes. In that tank (quarantine) I change 5gal every 2 weeks even when not being used.
Rotorjockey
<Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger ph problems  - 02/15/07
Hello Again Bob,
<Fred>
I lost the battle with the clown trigger this morning.
<Rats!>
I'm to the point of feeling like it is a shame that the lives of these creatures are put in the hands of novices such as myself.
<Mmm... life lessons for all>
I do intend, though, not to give up yet (because although this is a failure, I have had many successes) but to be more diligent in my practices.
<Good>
In retrospect, the fish's eyes began to cloud up a few days before the rest of the symptoms set in, but since he was eating fine and active, I just dismissed it as I am just not familiar with this species.
Thank you VERY much for such a rapid response to my questions.
<Welcome>
I am truly impressed and look forward to advancing my hobby through you.
Like it or not, you're stuck with me!
Fred
<The scene at the end of the movie "Casablanca" comes to mind... Be chatting my friend. BobF>

- Baby Clown Trigger -
I got my baby clown trigger in today from fishsupply.com. I must say I'm not very happy. The fish came with TWO CLOUDY eyes. My wishful thinking is telling me that maybe its normal for Clown Trigger fish for their eyes to appear cloudy? <Cloudy eyes are not normal.> But I know its probably hopeless. <Not so... make sure it's eating, has good water quality, and isn't being hassled by other fish or getting sucked into the filter and it should pull through.> Only reason I say that is because I remember having a HUMU HUMU and his eyes always appeared cloudy but they really weren't. <I know what you're talking about but the clown trigger eyes are not the same as the Huma Huma.> That's just the way the looked and if u looked closely they were a real pretty blue. You think this is the case with the Clown trigger? What can I do? I have a 5 day guarantee on him but I'm sure he'll live for at least that long. <I agree with you there... might want to at least talk to the folks where you bought it and report its initial condition - perhaps ask what happens on the sixth day.>
Cheers, J -- >

Trigger With Ich 7-25-30     
  Hi my name is Paula <Cody here, sorry for the delay.>and I purchased a tiny clown trigger from the
company I work for. I never acclimated it to the system when it came in at work. I brought it straight home and put it into a twenty gal. with 15 pounds of live rock and 2 maroon clowns the clowns do not bother it. I noticed the trigger clown had ich on it's fin  before leaving work and was hoping that being in an established system the fish could recover on it's own. Before going any farther my ammonia is 0 ppm my nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are 10 ppm and salinity is 1.018. I purchased the fish Thurs. it's now Tues. (5 days) no better no worse eats great a little shy unless he's being fed but is doing well so far.
My dilemma is do I wait or treat with Coppersafe now. I have a 75 gal. with a Foxface rabbit, regal and yellow tang, blue fin angel, yellow headed goby, bi-color and lawn mower blennies, snowflake moray which will eventually go in with the trigger, and a Percula clown with two cleaner shrimp and a fire shrimp.
The only time I have ever had a problem with Ich is when I first brought the 75 gal. home stalked with 1/2 the fish in it now, bought from individual already set up. That was a chore in it's self I carried 60 gal. of water back with me and kept all rock submersed separate from fish. This is the last fish I am buying for a long time I have wanted a clown trigger for several years but knew it was not reef safe and it gets so large I wasn't ready to tackle that feet until my reef was complete. Anyway I haven't dealt with triggers much I know what they eat and what they are like but am concerned with how the clown trigger will react to the Coppersafe. Also I don't like using this with out knowing a little more about how to mix it, I have purchased a copper test kit but Coppersafe doesn't have the number amounts just teaspoon or what ever. What is the amount I should achieve and how long do I keep it their. I have read .35 and others .25 and others as high as .50 although I feel .50 is probably to hi what amount will actually kill the parasite after it falls of the fish? Or should I try something else? wait it out? Lower salinity How low is low enough? I thought 1.016 but I have read 1.010 is that to low? I have a 2 1/2 inch cleaner would a 2 inch or less Clown trigger  kill him? I fear yes if not I will try the
cleaner shrimp first?<The trigger would probably eat the cleaner.  Just add copper until the correct level is reached, put about 15 drops in the tank, if you are using the 20 gal.  Then add more drops as needed.  I would shoot for copper levels around .2-.25.  Also if you want to keep the LR live you will need to take it out before treating.  It would be best to also have no substrate as it can absorb the copper.  The rock will need to sit in a separate container for at least a month before it can be put back in with fish.  It would be best to also have no substrate as it can absorb the copper. Also if you use copper I would keep the salinity up to normal levels.> What do I do???   Help!

Our poor Clown Trigger
First off, hello and hope you all are doing well. Hopefully, this question will become helpful to others that might have the same scenario!
<I hope so too>
Secondly, my wife and I have a 70 gallon tank which, after the rocks and crushed coral and fish added is, about 60 or 55 gallon. We have 5 fish total:
-Spottyback Wrasse (purple body with orange face and gnarly teeth only approx. 3"=healthy)
-Yellow Tang (approx. 4"=healthy)
-Foxface (approx. 6"=healthy)
-Huma Trigger (which I bought about 2 years ago for my wife's birthday as she is the Trigger collector which is approx. 3"=healthy)
-Clown Trigger (which I bought WITH the Huma who is now approx. 5" or so=EATING BUT LAZY and LETHARGIC!!!).
<Mmm, this tank is too crowded... psychologically... and soon to be physiologically... If you wanted to keep just what you list here you'll need a few hundred gallons>
We just did a 50% water change about 1 week ago and they all seemed fine. Tests were all perfect (we've had the tank now over 3 years with the two Triggers added just 2 years ago). The wife tells me that "trigger's like to play silly games. they pretend to be sick and lay at the bottom until you walk over to check on them only to find out they are fine. Let's just keep an eye on him/her to see how it is doing and keep a log". 
Now, I have never had a saltwater tank, she and her brother had a 150 or so when they were teenagers that fell over after the Northridge Earthquake with approx. 2-3K worth of equip., livestock, etc., so, she has had more "practice". I do notice when I go to feed them, the Clown is very active. Today, this morning, I was sitting with my a.m. coffee and noticed the Foxface and Yellow Tang pecking at the Clown's "poo" and the Clown was just LAYING THERE! So, I went up to the tank and behold, the Clown starts doing his usual barrel rolls, swimming horizontally...etc. My questions/comments are:
1. I'm disgusted that the fish even eat poo that hasn't come out yet! YUCK!-Is this normal?
<Yes, and not harmful in general>
2. WHY is the Huma (which secretly I like more but will never tell the wife) SO much SMALLER? BTW...HATES seaweed...eats only krill and Trigger formula.
<Different species... propensity for growth is less and ultimate size...>
3. Is the Clown doing this for attention or is there something wrong?
<Not likely anything "wrong"... your wife is correct in stating re their play behavior... this fish is very likely "just bummed" out... >
4. The wife keeps telling me "don't get attached to the fish, they eventually get too big for our tanks and we will eventually have to trade them in for smaller fish"...is this true? I really love all the fish we've had so far and they have been with us for 3 years! I really would hate to trade them in. I would love to get a bigger tank but with that comes more work and focus and we have a baby on the way. Is there a peaceful resolution?
<Not really... your wife is correct here as well...>
5. Is my tank "okay" as far as inhabitants? The only thing I notice as far as "aggression" is, the Huma keeps getting it's butt kicked by the Wrasse only because it wants the Wrasse's "home"!
<It is not okay... is way too crowded, stressful... equivalent to you living in something space-wise like your house with a bull and a bear...>
That's it...let me know if I missed anything.
<Mmm, all seems well-written, complete... I would trade the Clown Trigger in or get a much larger system... with plans to get one or more even much larger systems down the near road. Bob Fenner>

Discolored Clown Trigger... poor mix, environment (Marina Looks for Photos..)
I have a 4 month old Long 30 gallon tank. heavily filtered. Prizm (H.O.T.) skimmer, old school gulf stream wet dry filter, 8 lbs live rock, phosphate absorbing media, carbon, PolyFilter. Also left in the undergravel filter, (covered by very little gravel) with 2 powerheads to pump the fish waste back up to the skimmer (ideally.)
<Mmm, am sure you realize the requirements of substrate with UG filters, their shortcomings/strengths>
I have more bio balls on order to increase the nitrifying bacteria for the system. I currently fight the nitrite with heavy skimming and a 1/3 water change weekly. currently levels are 2.5 PPM nitrite and 30 ppm nitrate. everything else is ideal.
<... any nitrite is dangerous...>
I have
1 Niger trigger 2.5 inches,
1 nano undulating trigger 1 inch, <<A what?>>
1 Royal Gramma 2 inches (lives in barnacles)
4 brave and fast damsels
3 Emerald Crabs (clean up crew)
and a 2 inch clown trigger.
<... crazy to have this much fish life in an uncycled system>
everyone gets along.
<Mmm, for now perhaps... apparently>
- I know that your recommendations are for huge tanks with triggers, but I live in NYC and the triggers live as we do, in well laid out, small quarters. sleeping places for all and a good circuit to do laps. I do not want to reduce stock or trade in until they grow too big 1+ inch growth. 
I purchased the clown trigger 3 weeks ago. The clown trigger survived and ich infestation 10 days ago. I treated with a 5 minute fresh water dip, and then treated with copper. When I bought the clown it had some discoloration, but was eating well, and was an excellent price retail at $49.00. I decided to bring it home and with TLC bring it back to fighting strength. After undergoing medication, the clown is eating well, although only brine shrimp or Mysis. Does not seem to have the desire to attack the krill like the Niger.
On one side of its body the colors are perfect. The photo attached is of the other side.
There are white discolored patches. under close observation, it does not look to be fungus. Although the fins have some white bits forming, perhaps bacteria attacking post ich?
<Mmm, no, at least not immediately, directly the problem... the source of troubles here is/are environmental... nitrite, likely transient ammonia, too much stress from unnatural assortment, crowding>
Also the pectoral fins appear to be enduring some rot. I am going to the LFS to buy some Maracyn, is this the best course of action, given I am dedicated to not making tank size change or destocking? Also how long should scales take to grow back if scrapped from netting or shipping?
<Mmm, no... antibiotics period are not a good idea in main/display systems... this one, Erythromycin is not a good idea period>
Thanks for your help, your site is very interesting.
- JR
<Keep the nitrite down below 1.0 ppm... through huge water changes, careful feeding, add more substrate, get a bigger tank/s. Bob Fenner>

Trigger = Eating Machine (3/2/05)
I have recently upgraded my aquarium and have invested in a 300 Gallon system. 
<I am green with envy.> 
I have not yet stocked the tank but ultimately want to put a clown trigger in it. 
<Cool fish. Great tank for it.> 
I know from reading your previous Q&A that this fish has great personality but may tend to be somewhat aggressive. 
<Variable personality. It's one of the "less aggressive" members of the family.> <<RMF disagrees... this fish often is an unholy terror when large>>
If I placed a small trigger (say 2") into this system with a flame angel, a few damsels (green Chromis, 3 stripe, yellow tail), a few percula, some regal tangs, and invertebrates (snails, hermit crabs, cleaner shrimp, brittle stars) and coral (hard and soft) what would be the outcome. My gut tells me to kiss the inverts and damsels good-bye. 
<Smart guts.> 
Any advice given is appreciated. Thanks in advance.-Rob 
<The Trigger will eventually eat all of the inverts. Mine nipped at the "chips" on my starfish, so I eventually got rid of it. It did leave my big green brittle stars alone. Check the picture on WWM of a Trigger eating a Linckia star. Smaller fish are eventually at risk as well. Damsels can be very aggressive with each other. A "few" Perculas may not get along so well either. What do you mean by "some Regal Tangs?" Are you moving some fish from another tank? Have you considered a pair of Maroon Clowns rather than a "few perculas?" If you decide to go FOWLR, which you must if you have the Trigger, you might consider fewer interesting big fish rather than a bunch of small ones. Examples would be a Snowflake Eel (no small tankmates), Lunare (beautiful fish) Wrasse or Bird Wrasse, a larger angel or butterfly. With plenty of $, a pair of Chaetodon semilarvatus would really look great. If you want corals and other inverts, you will have to choose strictly "reef-safe" fish. Consider a harem of fairy wrasses. I'm getting excited just thinking of all the possibilities for a tank of this size. My most important advice is to be very, very patient. Research and plan and move slowly. This patience will really pay off. Hope this helps. Steve Allen>

Who's Afraid of Clowns?
I have an 8" masked puffer (Arothron diadematus) in a well furnished 90 gal- alone!  this is because I adore him and my experience tells me that the utmost caution is needed when selecting tankmates in even the most docile communities else tank mates soon become snacks.
so I really want to add another fish with a little bit of color and an equally charming personality and I have become fixated on clown triggers.  
of course I had to pick one of the most aggressive types of fish and one of the rudest species in the bunch.  if I add a very small clown trigger am I testing fate?  would a Picasso trigger be equally as risky?  or can these fish mix, assuming I keep a watchful eye?
thanks.
Reuben
Hello Reuben,
This puffer will attain a decent size, big enough to warrant having that tank all to himself. One of the last fish I would consider putting in with him is a clown trigger. Clowns almost always end up needing a tank of their own, and when they DO work out long term in a setting with multiple fish, it's almost always in a very large tank. Remember that aside from being very aggressive, clown triggers attain a size approaching 2 feet in the wild - 20 inches or so actually. In captivity they max out much smaller, but can be relied upon to reach a size of 15" or so. Much to large for your 90 gallon, even if he was by himself.
A MUCH better choice would be a Huma Huma trigger. Triggers of this genus are much smaller, and they grow VERY slowly. Annoyingly slow actually if you're trying to grow up a show specimen. Good news for you though! They are much less belligerent as well. Start with a small individual, and you should be good to go for quite some time. The trigger itself will never outgrow that tank.
One warning though, keeping only two fish is often a bad recipe for a tank of any kind unless you have a pair. One fish will always be dominant, and will often badger the other fish relentlessly with no other fish present to take out it's aggressions. Nothing is all the time though, and if you start out with a small trigger, you may not have any issues. Try a 3" Huma Huma or Rectangulus. Nothing left to say but, give it a try!
Good luck
Jim***

Help!  Sick Clown Trigger
Hello,
<Hi, Mike D here>
You guys have been nothing but helpful before, so I'm back again in need of your expertise.  I have a 2 year old 55 gallon saltwater tank.  It  contains some live rock, a large sailfin tang, large maroon clownfish, a rainbow wrasse, a medium-small lionfish, and a medium-large (4" or so) clown  trigger.<Ouch! You are already maxed out on population with some major growing occurring as we speak...you have some hard choices ahead in your immediate future>  
Everyone in the tank is doing fine, eating well, swimming around  . . . except my clown trigger.  I've had him almost 2 weeks, and he's been  doing great.  A few days ago, I noted some suspicious white spots that  looked all too familiar, so I dipped him for 10 min. in a Hydroplex freshwater dip. The spots have not returned (my UV sterilizer should have kept that  from happening to begin with).<I assume you're referring to ick and 1) the spots disappearing doesn't mean that the freshwater dip worked, as it's part of the lifecycle of the fish, with each "spot" that disappeared falling off and splitting into up to 200 new smaller parasites to re-infect your fish. Often what happens is this second, stronger infection begins where it's not seen, in the gills! Another fallacy is that the UV sterilizer will cure/control ick, which it almost universally does not. Read the FAQs on UV sterilizers and I think you'll find what I mean.>  Last night, I notice the trigger did not  have his usual appetite, and did not eat.  I just got home from work today,  and he's lethargically moping around the bottom of the tank, breathing rapidly,  and again, refusing to eat even when the food is in front of him.  The  water has had a recent change, tests appeared normal, all other fish are doing  as well as usual.  What might be wrong?  Is there anything I can  do?<I'd suggest removing to a separate hospital tank and begin your treatment of choice for Ick (there are many.. hyposalinity, dips, formalin treatments, etc.>  This is my prize fish!  I just got him at a once a year store  sale for 50 bucks off!  That won't happen again . . .
. any ideas that can  help me?<Again, hospitalize/Quarantine and treat for Ick as it's likely infesting his gills (often new fish that have been stressed will be parasitized while healthy, established fish will remain largely or completely normal due to their immune system and slime coats functioning at 100%)  Once you've beaten this problem you need to start considering that both Sailfin Tangs and Clown Triggerfish get HUGE in a fairly short time (2-3 years) and will need a MUCH bigger tank ASAP.....imagine a full sized football painted the same color as your little clown trigger and you're looking at a 2/3 grown specimen, keeping in mind that marine fish do not grow only to the size of the tank they are in like some freshwater fish. Good Luck!>  
Thanks a billion,
-Dave

Large clown trigger
Hi Bob,
Glad to hear from you again, how was your trip to Cooks? Were you there on assignment?
<Fine, and "self-sponsored" assignment this time... making pix, visiting hashers and Chip Boyle...>
I will collect my trigger tomorrow morning ( 14/10/00 ).I'm a bit excited because I was told that it is a fine specimen and over 8" ( cost me about US55+ ).
<A bargain.>
Bob I read your articles on acclimation and I want to ask you why usually when I tested the shipping water it is always towards acidic (7.4 )? And I have to slowly bring it up to 8.4 level before I dip it in fresh water with same PH and added with Methylene blue for 2 minutes, am I doing the right thing ?
<The pH drops due to a combination of a loss of alkaline/reserve and respiratory and waste product production... best to very, very slowly raise the pH... through acclimation and to not allow any of the shipping water (laden with ammonia typically) to be transferred in the process... Take a look on the site: Home Page re "Guerilla Acclimation">
Or is it better to dip in salt water added with Maroxy ( Mardel ) for a couple of minutes?
Was is your advice?
Hope I hear from you in time.
David.
Trigger Happy!!! >>
<Better to lower pH of the mixing water with a dilute soln. of HCl, or other acidifier, and know what you're doing here... and aerate the mixed solution, allowing the pH to rise over an hour or more time, while aerating the mix water, and use either the Methylene blue and/OR the Maroxy...
Bob Fenner, who warns all, this is for MOST types of marine fishes, not all, and NOT invertebrates>

Clown Trigger
Hi, I started a new tank and it has been cycled for 2 weeks now.
I have a clown trigger that has taken a turn for the worst in the past couple of days.
He has gray patches that have started to connect and his color has been fading. He is breathing very heavy and his fins have cloudy patches he has had these symptoms for the past 3 weeks. I first thought it was ick and threw in some medication for ick that did not help. I then threw in Melafix that did not work and then tried CopperSafe that didn't work and now someone told me to use copper power which I threw in but has not worked either. 
<Yikes... this is a bunch of toxic medications... your Clown Trigger may have originally been reacting to most anything behaviorally... environmentally... You state that the tank has only been cycled for two weeks, and yet the Trigger was exhibiting "symptoms" for three weeks? This time frame is too short to be placing fish livestock...>
Before adding any new medication I ran my filter system with carbon for 2 days to get rid of the medication I previously used.
<Good idea>
Last night I did a 25% water change and turned on my 15 watt U.V light. I also tried giving him a fresh
water dip but he started to go on his side in a minute and a half I got scared and quickly put him back in the tank.
The numbers for my tank are
Gravity - 1.22
Ammonia - None
PH - 8.4 I have been using PH 8.2 but my ph keeps on rising it was at 8.6
<Do have your test kit checked... and try not to worry if the pH "only" gets this high... that is, I wouldn't try to "correct it"... in time the pH will start to drift down of its own accord>
Nitrite - none
Other fish in tank include 6 damsels and one panther grouper they show no sign of anything.
I don't know if I'm making any sense but if you can help me I would greatly appreciate it.
<Is this Trigger still eating? How large is this tank? Do you have live rock in it? Filtration/aeration? I would increase the latter, add some live rock and leave all else alone. Patience my friend. Please read over the Marine Set-Up and Maintenance sections of our site: www.WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger
The aeration that I use is coming from the return. should I be worried that this is a disease or just stress related.
<Mostly stress>
I do not have any live rock in my tank just 1 piece of moon rock.
<As stated, I would add some>
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in the previous email that 3 weeks ago he had a small open sore that looks like its all healed. should I be worried about a disease in my tank and if so why have none of the other fish contracted the disease. Thank you for your quick response.
<I wouldn't be concerned about this previous sore>
I just wanted to get your opinion on what I did and if you have any other suggestions regarding my clown trigger. I removed the moon rook from my tank Because of the high effect it has on raising ph. I also but 3 pounds of live rock I have a 90 gallon tank should I buy more.
<Yes. Look for "whole box" deals from e-tailers... or make a deal with your local fish store for same... much cheaper>
The clown has not eaten for about 4 - 5 days. I performed a water change like I told you 3 days ago should I do another one in a couple of days or not.
<I would hold off on water changes. Do try placing an entire "cocktail shrimp" (sans sauce of course, or a piece of frozen/defrosted krill... Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger
I also noticed that the clown triggers stomach looks swollen but he hasn't eaten for 4 - 5 days is that of any concern.
<Yes... perhaps this Clown Trigger is eating something... Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger
I'm sorry for being such a pain but this morning I tested my water and my numbers were as follows.
Nitrite - 0.20
Ammonia - 0.50
PH - 8.6
Nitrate - 40
I know I did a water change and the numbers go up but that was 4 days ago is their anything I should do or just wait it out.
<Something is not right here... you ammonia and nitrite s/b zero as in nothing... Please read through the www.WetWebMedia.com site re "biological filtration", "marine set-up", "ammonia", "nitrite"... Hopefully what is wrong will come to your awareness by this process... in the meanwhile don't feed this tank, and do change your water (with pre-made... do read the "synthetic seawater" sections as well) if the NH3 or NO2 approaches 1.0ppm. Study my friend will save your livestock. Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger
The fish has not been eating for the past couple of days. Should I be feeding him certain food right now I am feeding him Formula 1, Krill, and frozen squid I like to switch it up. 
<Good idea... this is enough types for now>
My tank size is 90 gallons I have a wet dry filter 15 U.V a 303 powerhead for circulation I also have a Prizm skimmer that I have not hooked up yet.
<I would... good, better water quality is a definite plus>
The aeration that I use is coming from the return. should I be worried that this is a disease or just stress related.
<Mostly stress>
I do not have any live rock in my tank just 1 piece of moon rock.
<As stated, I would add some>
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention in the previous email that 3 weeks ago he had a small open sore that looks like its all healed. should I be worried about a disease in my tank and if so why have none of the other fish contracted the disease. Thank you for your quick response.
<I wouldn't be very concerned re actual parasitic or infectious disease here... Please read through the following: http://wetwebmedia.com/tanktroubleshting.htm
on tank troubleshooting... Keep studying my friend. Bob Fenner>

Re: clown trigger
A quick update it looks like the end is near for my clown his colorful leathery skin has no been reduced to what looks to be smooth chalky skin.
His gills look to have disintegrated and his breathing has gotten heavy from his gills not being able to take in enough oxygen. He no longer can swim when ever he tries to he falls to the side. I know this is a dumb question but is their anything else I can do. I can't stand to see the fish suffer like this if the end is near I would like to flush him down the toilet then watch him suffer.
<I understand, and share your sympathies. If you are assured that the end is nigh for your Clown Trigger, a humane way of bringing its suffering to an end is to place it in a small volume of water (let's say half a cup) in a plastic bag and place it in the freezer. Bob Fenner>

Phosphates
Hi Bob,
Glad you're around to help!!! I'm having a problem with my LFS. I bought a clown trigger from him and two days later he died. 
<Mmm, what sort of symptoms? Did the fish eat... ever? What else do you have in your system that is doing well? Need more clues...>
I went back for a refund and he tested my water. My ph is 8.0, ammonia 0.0, nitrites 0.o, nitrates 15. He also tested for phosphates and said I was at 10. 
<Yeeikes, this is HIGH!>
I thought phosphate problems were mostly related to algae, I don't have an algae problem. 
<Unusual that you don't have a bunch of algae growing here... I would test your water elsewhere/wise>
This tank also has a lion fish, snowflake eel, valentini puffer and a damsel. No problems with them. I also found out that my LFS keeps his ph at 8.8.
<What? Really... strange... not easy to do, safely... and many downsides in event of other troubles...>
I harden my fish for 2 hours, slowly mixing my tank water with the LFS water before I release. So needless to say, he refused the refund. Is the high phosphates the cause of death or possibly the big change in ph? Thanks again for your help........Paul
<Maybe a bit of both... this whole situation doesn't add up though... Ten ppm of soluble phosphate is very unusual period... w/o enormous algal problems almost unbelievable... a store maintaining a pH (likely with Kalkwasser and careful use of calcium chloride) to maybe precipitate phosphate (?) is unprecedented/unknown to me otherwise... and to lose what appears to be such a tough species of fish so easily in the face of the other livestock you list... anomalous to say the least. I would ask for at least partial credit or be shopping elsewhere. You are welcome to forward, show my opinions to your dealer. Bob Fenner>

Help with clown trigger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Bob!
I realize by the time you respond my fish may be dead, but its worth a try. I have a seven inch clown trigger which I've had for three years in a 75 gallon tank along with a Arothron puffer, purple tang, and a wrasse. I just noticed my trigger is on the bottom of the tank laying on his side, breathing normally, maybe a little shallow. When fish approach he flaps his fins but cannot swim. When he tries he remains bent and has no control. He has been very still for a few hours now. I fed the other fish, they are perfectly normal. This is the first situation I've had in five years so I'm a little caught off guard and don't know where to turn. I hope you can help and at least give me some preventive knowledge. Do fish die of old age?
<They do, but this one is not old... May have eaten something "that didn't agree with it"... or be "pulling your fins"...>
Thanks Bob, I know you are very busy but I don't trust anyone else's expertise.
<No worries... I would do the S.O.P. of a water change, add carbon to the filter flow path, check water quality... Hopefully the fish "swallowed a bug that fell in" or is just "clowning around"... and will recover soon. Bob Fenner>

Sick clown triggerfish?
I have a clown triggerfish that is about 4 inches long. He still eats well and swims around all day, but, his color is fading out in spots all around him! What is this? Please help, and quick!!! Thanks, -Kevin
<Mmm, either nutritional deficiency, "poor" water quality, or behavioral display/mal-adjustment. Please read through the Triggerfish materials archived on our site, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm on to the linked files, FAQs in blue above. Bob Fenner>

Clown Trigger with Digenetic Trematodes
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels>
I have to say that I am a HUGE fan, I have read your book at least twice cover to cover, and is my bible for aquarium keeping!! 
<yes, we are in agreement>
I recommend your book to everyone interested in keeping a saltwater tank, and can say you have a lot of fans on Saltwaterfish.com's message board! Now to my question, I have a Clown Trigger, that I have had for three years, very recently my impeller on my filter broke and the filter stopped working, for at least 24 hours; shortly after this incident the trigger developed small white spots on both pectoral fins, they did not seem to bother him, I did not worry to much, as I thought it must be a small bout with ick, which I was sure he would fight off. Now, two months later, he still has them; they still do not seem to bother him (by that I mean, he is not darting about the tank, or scratching on rocks) however, he has had some unusual behavior , such as hanging around in the bubbler and after eating, finding a place to rest on the bottom. 
<yes... one of the signs of some kind of parasites in the gills>
I am thinking after a lot of reading, he may have some type of worm (digenetic trematodes). I do soak the food in Kent's Garlic Xtreme, and would like to know if I should take further measures of treatment, and if so what type of medication would work best. Thank you so very much. J. Marshall
<treatment in a quarantine tank specifically (not in main display) with Formalin is recommended. Follow manufacturers recommended dose as per instructions. Best regards, Anthony>

Clown Trigger
Hello there, I have had a 55 gal tank up and going for several months. I added a Picasso trigger who seems to be doing fine. My concern is I added a second Trigger fish (Clown) and he seem to be very skittish and not swimming around even for food. He has only been in my tank for 2 days but I'm wondering if this is normal or should I be concerned with this behavior?.
<too early to tell, although mixing trigger species is not usually a great idea. Issues with aggression are likely in the long run. In the meantime, the new fish could simply be getting used to the new climate and traffic patter of the house where the tank sits (big scary shadows suddenly walking by...hehe). Or, it could be intimidated by the presence of the other fish(es). There is always the possibility of disease too... aquarists really need to quarantine all new fish for 2-4 weeks before just throwing them into displays... else it is like roulette with living creatures and pathogenic diseases. Do read more in the archives about proper QT. Patience in the meantime and careful observation. Anthony>
Please help, Best Regards, Todd Pelletier

"Spot" the clown trigger
Dear WWM crew, I don't know if you will remember, but have emailed you before about my clown trigger, thought he had metacercaria. 
<I do>
However, now I believe it to be more than just the encapsulated worms, I think he may also have internal worms, need your help to diagnose. 
<Of a certainty all fishes and humans do have internal worms of various sorts... are they of number, kind, placement, size to be of consequence is the question>
I have had spot for 3 1/2 years and only in the last six months has he shown symptoms like periodic loss of color, resting on the bottom with slow breathing. He is becoming less active by the day, although he is always on the ball when it comes to feeding time.
I currently feed him FD krill soaked in ZOE vitamins, trigger formula, prime reef formula, formula 2 and use garlic additives to the food also.
<Do add more/other whole fresh or frozen/defrosted meaty foods, drop out some of the prepared formulated foods>
He appears to eat well, but spends most of his day on the bottom of the tank.
After he eats his belly seems to be full, but by the end of the day his belly looks emaciated, almost like he is starving.
<Good description>
His tankmates include a zebra lionfish (2yrs) a Huma Huma trigger (4yrs) and a sunset wrasse (1yr). The other fish have absolutely no symptoms, and are eating healthy and active, with bright color. I pride myself on water changes and keeping my tanks clean.
I have tried a few meds with Spot, but they seemed harder on him than what was actually bothering him. I have used formalin and Praziquantel in addition to feeding the garlic.
Right now, I feel like Spots quality of life is not what it should be, and
feel like he is suffering and it breaks my heart. I have read your site on
disease and also the book by Gerald Bassleer "Diseases in marine aquarium
fish" and just cannot find anything that fits his symptoms completely.
<You know... you might try "floating out" a fecal sample (can be collected easier in a bare tank (quarantine/treatment), and looking under a scope for eggs... perhaps definitive. I would consider trying lacing the foods the specimen takes readily with Flagyl/Metronidazole... for three days or so... and see if the "wasting" subsides... other... vermifuges might be tried as well (Piperazine, di-n-butyl tin oxide... and more modern compounds... from/via a veterinarian)...>
Truly I am stumped with this one, and was hoping you might have a miracle cure. I just finished setting up and cycling Spot's permanent home a 240G, but he was to be the last fish added, as I was afraid any fish introduced after a healthy "Spot" would be harassed to death. 
<A wise arrangement/precaution>
Would it be worth it to add him to the 240, just to see if he would perk up, should I just keep giving it the wait and see approach, I guess really I want to know, how do I know he is suffering and when it is time to say goodbye, which will probably be one of the hardest things I could do.
<Not likely "suffering"... as in pain, remorse. Not to worry>
Thank you so much for your time and your knowledge, from an extremely grateful hobbyist. J. Marshall
<I would wait, try the anti-protozoal, perhaps the deworming materials... and see if this animal retains mass, before moving. One last item/question back to you: Is there live rock in this system? I would definitely add some if not... in the hope that "something" missing in the animals diet or water quality might be restored. Bob Fenner>

"Spot" the clown trigger
Just some more info on "Spot", the night before he had lumps on both sides of his abdomen, they were considerable in size and oval shaped. He seemed to have to struggle to swim, not necessarily had an equilibrium problem, just struggling to move himself through the water. The next morning both lumps were gone, and he was waiting at the top of the tank to be fed. Then last night, had another lump approximately the same size, but only on one side, seemed again to struggle through the water, and again this morning the lump is gone, and he is anxiously awaiting to be fed. Thought this info.
might help you make a diagnosis. 
<bizarre... and rules out an actual growth(s). I'm wondering if this silly or greedy fish isn't gulping or snapping at bubbles at the surface or otherwise ingesting air?>
Will be looking for your reply, and again
Thank You!! J. Marshall
<very curious! Anthony>

Problem with Clown Trigger
Hello,  Can you please help me. 
<yes, indeed my friend>
I have a 60 gallon with a pearl butterfly, Koran angel, 4 damsels, and baby clown trigger.
<a very incompatible mix in long run.. the butterfly is likely to be intimidated and killed by angel or trigger and the trigger is a threat to all in time>
My clown trigger has developed a bad case of both eyes clouding up and are very swollen. It basically happened over one day. 
<a bacterial infection that needs treatment in a bare bottomed quarantine tank promptly (antibiotics will compromise other fishes/kill main bio filter)>
He can barely see, but is still trying to eat. He's also discolored (colors very faded). My angel also
has a little white coating on his front fins (they see to be a little rotted as well). Again, that seems to have developed over the last couple days.
<do examine water quality... if bacterial, it is usually from poor water quality (low pH, lack of water changes, etc)>
Can you please recommend a treatment. 
<Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone cocktail meds at double strength if FW brand daily for 5 days. Must be treated in bare bottomed QT>
I just want to make sure I treat this the right way Thank you so much, Frank
<best regards, Anthony>