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FAQs on Copper Removal 2
Related Articles: Copper Use in Marine
Systems,
Medications Related FAQs:
Copper Removal 1, Use,
Medication/Products, Testing,
Marine Parasitic Disease,
Parasitic Marine Tanks,
Parasitic Reef Tanks,
Cryptocaryoniasis, Marine Ich,
Marine Velvet Disease, Hey there! | 
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copper treated tank 9/9/09
Hello
<Hiya Darrel here>
I am getting a 45 gal hex tank that was treated with copper and was
wondering if the copper will affect the live stock.
<Yes, and No. How's that for an answer?>
I wanted to set it up as a seahorse tank and wanted to know if that
would be safe? I am not using anything but the tank. I have heard both
that the silicone will absorb the copper and leach it back into the tank
and that this is just a myth and as long as you wash the tank there
should be no left over copper. I just don’t want to harm anything.
<If you look at the first two links below, articles compiled
specifically about Copper Removal, you'll see that it is our opinion
that with proper high quality carbon filtration, what copper that did
leech into and now coming back out of the silicone can be removed until
only undetectable amounts remain. So in this instance it's not a myth:
In fact, the tank may very well contain trace amounts of anything and
everything that it has ever contained ... and the only question for us
is "is what's left enough to make a difference?" and again, the answer
is "Yes and No." Two weeks of high quality carbon (like HydroCarbon 2)
will remove all measurable amounts of copper. Is that enough? Probably,
yes. Truth be told -- more attention to water quality, changes,
filtration and other aspects of husbandry is probably a better use of
your time and effort that worrying about all the trace remains in
world.>
<So ... you're not taking MUCH of a chance, but only you can balance the
risk versus the cost savings>
Thanks for any help
<It wasn't much, was it?>
Chris
<http://www.wetwebmedia.com/curemovalfaqs.htm>
<http://www.wetwebmedia.com/curemovalfaq2.htm>
<and>
<http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seahorsecare.htm>
Liverock and Copper: The aftermath of 'nuking' a tank. SW
Copper Treatment 8/5/2009
<Hi Jeff.>
First I will explain the system. I have a 180 gallon tank with about 18
- 6" fish, 55 gallon refugium and a 30" x 18" x 18" sump filter. In the
main tank I have about 150 pound of live rock or more and a thin sand
bed..just enough to cover the bottom. In the Refugium I have a 5 -6"
deep sand bed two small pieces of live rock and a nice patch of Macro
algae. In the sump I have a protein skimmer, some rubble rock and a bag
of bioballs.
<Sounds like a nice setup.>
Now the problem... I found one day that my harlequin tusk was swimming
erratically and had white spots all over him. Then I noticed that two or
three of my other fish had white spots. Now the last time I tried to
catch some fish to quarantine them I had to move all of the live rock
and my Yellow Tang went crazy territorial over the new live rock
configuration and killed about 6 fish before I figured out what was
going on.
So being uninformed about copper and not having the time to research I
listened to the LFS idiot and treated my entire system with Mardel's
Copper Safe for about 3 weeks.
<Oh no....>
All of the fish survived and I thought all was well.
<Fish are fine, everything else is dead.>
Now my live rock has never been the most beautiful live rock I have
seen. There were some very small things growing on them but nothing
crazy. Now that I have been reading about copper I am in a very
depressed state on what to do. I have treated the tank with Cuprisorb
and a poly pad I think it is called and I have made about 10, 60 gallon
water changes since the copper treatment. The live rock is still a
little hairy but not much different looking from before.
<How about the macroalgae in your refugium?>
My water quality is perfect no nitrate or anything. I have tested the
water for copper and it is really undetectable.
<It is still there, leeching slowly out of the rock and substrate.>
Now about a month after I did the copper treatment and maybe 4 of the
water changes I mentioned I put my snails back in and they all died with
in 48 hours.
<Copper - or ammonia from die off. Have you tested your ammonia levels
recently.>
My question is even though the live rock I have may not be Live anymore
can I add some new live rock to the system and not have to worry about
it being affected by the existing now dead rock?
<I wouldn't The rock is going to leach copper for a while. The rock is
no longer safe for any invertebrate>
I am going to replace the thin sand bed in the main tank but I hate the
thought of getting rid of a very well established deep sand bed in the
refugium.
<I would replace it, sorry>
I only have fish now but I would like to get some corals or inverts
someday. I have 40lb of new live rock curing in a separate tank and I am
not sure if I can add it to the system or not.
<I wouldn't yet.>
The thought of replacing 150 of live rock and all that live sand makes
me want to puke.
<Understandably.>
If I have to do that they may find it on the lawn of that LFS.
<Hehehe.>
I am also worried about my Yellow Tang going postal again if I remove
all of the existing live rock and put in a 1/4 of the rock I used to
have. I put him in my quarantine tank for over a month to get him back
to being nice. I called it my "time out" tank while he was in there and
that worked because he has been fine since.
I know every system is different but I guess my real question is can I
keep my now mostly dead rock in the tank as base rock and add some new
live rock and not hurt the new live rock.
<Not yet, will take some time to leach out all of the copper. Can take
months>
Replacing the sand in the main tank is not a problem and I am going to
do that this weekend. But I hate the thought of getting all new live
sand for the refugium.
<Copper does bind up with the sand and rock and should be replaced.>
I know getting all new stuff is the best idea but money is always a
factor and I would not mind having all that base rock in there and just
have more places for fish to hide and stay happy as long as it will not
harm the new stuff.
<What you can do is this. Replace your sand in both the tank and
refugium, pull your rock Get yourself some base rock - Clean, dead rock
from a LFS.
Use that as a base, and use your new live rock to seed it. It will take
a few months, but the base rock should become live again. Continue to
run Cuprisorb or a Polyfilter in your main tank just as a precaution for
the next month or so Your tank is going to cycle again.>
<Now for your copper contaminated rock, It isn't really safe for any
invertebrate. You can try and run it in a separate system and filter
with carbon, Cuprisorb, and\or Poly-filter. After a few months, with
regular
water and filter changes, you can put a few snails in the system as a
test.
If they survive for more than a week or so, start adding SMALL pieces
back into the tank, and assess after each addition.>
I hate to buy living things as tests but I was thinking of getting one
or two snails and see if they live and that would be my test before I
put 40lbs of new rock. I hate to do that but not sure how else to be
100% sure.
<Almost certain to die at this point.>
I am not sure I put much faith in the idea of the glass leaching copper
too and having to break the whole system down and clean it with mercuric
acid ten times but I am not spending $5000.00 on a new system I spent 5
years putting together so if that is what has to happen then I am not
sure what else to do.
<Copper does not leach into glass. It can leach into the silicone, but
not enough to be significant. Pull the rock, and the sand, and you will
be on your way to bringing the tank back. >
OK after all of that what do you suggest?
<Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cutrbfix.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/copperfa.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cufaqs2.htm >
Will you respond to my email direct or will you post it on the site?
<Both.>
Thank you,
<My pleasure, do write back with updates.>
Jeffrey
<MikeV>
Re: Liverock and Copper: The aftermath of 'nuking' a tank. SW
Copper Treatment 8/5/2009
<Hi Jeff.>
Thanks for the quick response.
<My pleasure.>
My macro algae is still looking good and it is a patch about 6'' thick
and 12'' x 30'' square.
<Good.>
It has not been getting any bigger lately but I thought that was because
when I set the fuge up my nitrates where very high in the 100 range and
now they are zero....Another reason why my live rock never looked that
great. I do regular water change but I used to have a 3'' bed of crushed
coral in the main tank and someone told me that is where the nitrates
are coming from so that is where the thin sand bed and fuge came from.
Anyways you said it will take months for the copper to come out of the
rock. Did you mean like 8 months or 80 months?
<3 - 9 months for the rock.>
I can wait 8 months to save $1000.00 in rock and sand.
<I would still replace the sand the in aquarium.>
Oh and what about the bioballs and macro algae do they need to be
replaced too?
<They should be fine.>
My ammonia levels have always been 0. I only ever had trouble with the
nitrates and I test for everything weekly.
With the fish load I have I am not sure how I can remove all the rock
and sand and possible bio balls and not have the whole system crash.
<Leave the bio-balls in place.>
When I add the new live sand and put the macro back in that should keep
it stable but I can't risk the $1500.00 in fish too!! That would push me
over the edge and then I would go postal. I have an old canister filter
I used for the 55 when it was the display tank but I don't think that
will handle the load???
<Leave the bio-balls and algae in place., Remove the sand, remove the
contaminated rock, put the new live rock in, then add the fish. You will
have to monitor the chemistry closely for the next few weeks though.>
Sorry this is so long again,
Jeff
<MikeV>
Activated carbon optimal flow
rate for removing Cupramine
Activated Carbon Flow Rate 6/1/09
Is there a certain flow rate that works best for activated carbon? I'm
setting up my own PVC construction which will basically hook to a Rio
submersible pump that does about 600 gph. I want to run the pump
through just a small piece of vinyl tubing, then into a chamber
constructed out of a 4" piece of PVC with an end cap that has a couple
small holes drilled in the cap, real small holes actually so that the
carbon cant get pushed out.
< Sounds good so far.>
The PVC chamber will be filled with carbon then dropped into the sump.
I'm basically just trying to get a good way to move a lot of water
through carbon, I want to clean all the Cupramine out of my tank within
a day or two, or at least really significantly reduce the levels...
< Could take longer than a day or two. Depends on the levels present.
Even then you will probably never fully remove it. >
So my question is about flow, will activated carbon work as well at high
speed water flow as it would at low speed? If not, I'll have to figure
out an easy way to throttle it back, which shouldn't be hard through use
of a splitter and a gate valve on the other end to control how much is
actually pumped through the carbon.
< No, activated carbons efficiency is dependent on contact time and
surface area. With lower flow and smaller particles being the most
efficient.>
I'd love an answer to this question, I've searched Google and WWM and
cant seem to find one. Grant
< I would install the gate valve and throttle it back to a moderate to
lower flow. With the amount flow being partially dependent on the size
of the aquarium. GA Jenkins>
Copper problems 3/26/09
Hey guys,
<Big B>
I have a 55 gallon tank with a 30 gallon refugium below that's been
working for about 4 years now. I use to have assorted corals and
inverts, as well as an anemone, live rock and live sand. And now there's
only fish because of copper problems. I have not medicated the tank. I
only use RO water. So, my problem started when I was desperate to
replace a broken pump. The local fish store I've been using was closed
so I think I made a foolish purchase at another store that sold pond
products. After losing everything but the fish, my local fish store
suggested that it was the new pump. They said the pumps made for outdoor
ponds sometimes use copper fittings. So, I replaced that pump with one
that I purchased from their store. I'm getting anxious to replenish
after approximately 5 months of water changes and using poly filter. The
copper reading has been about .1 or .2 ppm. Once a week, I replace 5
gallons of water, as well as the poly filter pad. Do you guys have any
suggestions for me besides being more patient?
Thanks so much.
BMG
<... the PolyFilter should be removing the cupric ion as it becomes
available... Your copper readings should be close to zip, zero, nada...
and the pad a definite blue in color if copper is present... I'd be
"checking your checker"... your copper test kit here. Bob Fenner>
Copper and acrylic, reading 03/11/09
Hi,
<Paul>
Information on chelated copper and reef tanks is a bit confusing. I keep
finding conflicting info concerning absorption in glass, acrylic,
silicone, reef rock, sand, etc. What I'm most concerned about is whether
my high-end skimmer is now trashed because I broke it in on a QT dosed
with Copper Power?
<Mmm, no>
I know, dumb rookie move. I followed the directions on the bottle of
Copper Power for a total of 100 gallons(tank and sump).
<Errr... want to make a comment here... There are few instances in which
"using" copper compounds in an established system is advised... See WWM
re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/curatuse.htm
and the linked files above>
BTW, nowhere on the bottle does it say "chelated copper."
<It is... this too is posted on WWM...>
So I'm not sure of that either. I hope that because the skimmer
manufacturer uses a quality, cell cast acrylic (or so I'm told), that
the acrylic will be dense enough to ward off the copper.
<None would "hold" any appreciable amount>
To be on the safe side, should I clean my skimmer with tap water and run
it in say 50 gallons of RO water and vinegar?
<I would not>
Is there anything else I should use besides Poly-Pads to try to remove
what copper may be present?
<See the above citation links...>
There are also some silicone tubes on the skimmer. Should I replace
those too?
<Nope. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Paul
Tang sys./sel. Question, and Copper Treatment (removal)
11/27/08
Hi Crew
Before I start, you guys probably get
this a lot, but without your site I would not have a tank but a messy
pile of failed reefkeeping I've had a small 20 Gallon reef set up for
about 3 months now, to see if reefing was my "thing" and it turned out
to be, to the extent that i want to study marine biology at university
level.
<Wow!>
Then the upgrade fever finally set in, so I got a
used freshwater 70 (40'x20'x20') tank
I really want to get a tang in
there, but before I set the thing up, I was wondering what fish would
fit in a tank of this size?
<Physically? Oh, behaviorally,
physiologically... many!>
I have read online and the most sites say
that a tang can go in a 70 minimum, for the Zebrasoma genus other than a
tang (space allowing) my Dwarf Bicolor Angelfish , False Perc pair and
my Yellowtail Damsels would be going in there, and I would be looking to
purchase a small school of Anthias, a Blenny and perhaps a school of
Chromis, is there anything that is not suitable for a tank of that size
in my list?
<? All sorts... >
Other than the tang of course, which
I would not want to keep if the tank was too small.
<Some Sailfin
Tangs (genus Zebrasoma) actually do get too large for such a volume,
shape system... the "Striped" species in particular (Z. veliferum, Z.
desjardinii)... see WWM re others:
http://wetwebmedia.com/zebrasom.htm
and the linked files above>
Another side question, the previous owner(who didn't speak very good
English, I live in Dubai and his first language is Arabic) said that he
medicated the tank, which was only set up for a month, he wasn't sure if
he used copper based treatments or not. Would this tank be safe to keep
inverts in?
<Very likely so... exceedingly little copper "sticks" to
the sealant, Plexiglas...>
its a Plexiglas and the only thing I would
be using from the setup is the actual tank, not any of the wet dry
filtration? From what I have read on WWM it appears that the copper in
the tank would be insoluble, and i plan to rinse it out with tap water,
and dechlorinate, so if there is any extra copper it would bind with the
Cl- ions hopefully and be removed before i add my RO water?
<For the
most part, yes. Not a worry>
I wouldn't want to rinse with HCL and
followed by Acetone as my parents would probably disown me for being
irresponsible and i have a feeling either the HCl or Acetone would
damage the Plexiglas?
<Yes it would>
Thanks Again Crew
(Apologies for any editing mistakes)
<Nice to meet you. Bob Fenner>
Re: Copper and acrylic 3/11/09
Bob,
<Paul>
Thanks
so much for the quick reply. I know you said it wasn't necessary.
But for
piece of mind, should I run the skimmer in RO water and Poly Filter pads in case
there's a traceable amount of copper left?
<Mmm, yes... particularly if you
intend to keep non-fish (algal, plant, invertebrate) life in the system>
This
skimmer is going to be used on a coral reef tank.
<I see... well, best to
err on the side of conservancy... I do think your idea of a good FW soak with
vinegar has merit. I would go ahead with this procedure>
I've been beating
myself up over dosing this QT with Copper Power, while breaking in my new
skimmer (BK). A few experienced hobbyists, who still could not believe I did
that, have told me to relax about my copper concerns.
<I agree>
Your
reply has helped me to lighten up on myself too. ;o) My display, which is still
dry, is 250 gallons and my total volume will be in the 400 gallon range once
everything is complete.
<Ahh, how nice!>
Is there a slim chance that my
skimmer will leach a harmful amount of trapped copper into that much water?
<No my friend>
Or am I worrying for nothing?
<Yes... you are. Do
understand that there is a "bit" of copper in/from many other places... source
water at times, salt mixes, even foods (intentionally)... Copper is actually an
essential "micro" nutrient/element to marine life... Not to worry. BobF>
Regards,
Paul
Re: Copper and acrylic 3/11/09
I understand that a very
small trace of copper is essential. I just don't want to kill off inverts and
most of all, corals, with a toxic level of it.
I also understand that
chelated copper is also less toxic. While the bottle of Copper Power doesn't say
"chelated copper," it does say that it's 60 times less(shouldn't it be fewer?
;o) ) toxic than other copper meds.
Wow, thanks again Bob. I'm new to this
site, but am now a big fan of it.
You guys do a great job of answering
people so promptly.
Regards,
Paul
<Welcome Paul... Again, there is
naught to be concerned re the Cu++ here.
Not to worry you further, but other
issues are MUCH more important going forward. Cheers, BobF>
Raising PH to Rid Tank of Medication, Cu removal
9/23/08
Dear Crew,
<Scott>
I would like your opinion
on the following matter. Several years ago I set up 300 gallon salt water tank
with live sand bottom. I purchased several fish species and regrettably some had
Ich and spread through out the entire tank (I didn't understand the importance
of having of a quarantine tank, but I do now) which I ended up over medicating
with copper and Methylene blue. I have tried on several different occasions and
after couple of water changes to reestablish some crabs and snails with new live
rock. Within 30-45 days all snails and crabs end up dying.
<Ah yes>
I
suspected that there was some leftover medication in the substrate so I used a
Poly Filter pad for several weeks even though it never turned in color to
indicate the presence of medication.
<Mmm, likely all insolubilized>
I
also used a copper test kit and it never showed any signs of copper present in
the water. I know the easy route would have been to replace the sand but the
cost replacing the sand is rather significant for this size of tank.
My
questions is this, I drained downed the tank to about 60 gallons have poured
about 1 1/2 gallons of muriatic acid in the tank with the live sand and the dead
rock and stirred up the sand with the hopes of lowering the PH to the point that
any left over medication got dissolved by the acid. I then refilled the tank
with new water. Is this process likely to solve the problem?
<Mmm, likely
there was no problem>
I'm not planning on adding corals or invertebrates, but
I would like to be able to house some crabs, snails, shrimps, etc. along with
fish and live rock in the tank.
Your response is most appreciated.
Scott
<I do doubt that you will register free copper, or any ill-effects from same
here. Bob Fenner>
Refugium Technical Help / Copper Removal from Rock Please
7/11/08
Hello Bob and the great Crew at WWM-I'd like to start off by
thanking you for the valuable knowledge you have shared with the
reef aquarium community and the helping me create an amazing
ecosystem (my super sized Rose Tip BTA just split into two to much
amusement to my gold-striped mated pair maroon clowns who have
spawned since).
<Gorgeous!>
I have been battling hair algae
in my reef tank for over a year now since adding some live rock
about a year ago (55 gallon, t-5 lighting, Eheim filter, red sea
protein skimmer). Its a mature tank 3 yrs+ and I dare say is
overstocked (see attached pics I have higher resolution too but I
wasn't sure if they'd go through email).
<They're here>
My
nitrates, phosphates are at continuously at zero (im sure their
higher just not picking them up in the tests).
<Mmm, no... much
more likely these are being "scarfed up" by your photosynthetic,
chemotrophic life/processes here>
I try to perform bi-monthly
water changes at 10%. I tried reduced lighting from 12 hours to 8
hours six months ago but then my BTA and corals don't seem as full
or bright so I returned to 12 hour lighting and the hair algae has
been growing. So I have finally purchased a sump which I am
converting to a Refugium and have some technical questions which I
could not find the answers to in the library: 1) I scored about 40
lbs of gorgeous Marshall Island dead rock from a former reefer who
had used a large amount of copper in his main FOWLR tank. The rock
looks okay from afar, but on close inspection there is a slight
green tint of copper on all the rocks.
<!?>
I tried boiling it
but the tint is still there. What can I do to remove all copper from
this rock before I cure it into Live Rock?
<Perhaps melt a good
deal off with dilute (inorganic likely) acid... I'd try Muriatic (3
molar HCl)... diluted by at least five times... do take care to do
this with eye protection, doing as you "outta, adding acid to
water"... outdoors where there is good air circulation>
(the
least expensive method would be most suitable for me) 2) Should I
place rocks that are heavily infested with Hair Algae in the
refugium or keep them in the main tank?
<In the refugium>
Or
will the Hair Algae go away in due time if I leave it in the main
tank and add the refugium?
<More likely in the 'fuge...>
3)
Should I place Rock or Macro Algae in the first chamber where the
water comes into the refugium from the overflow?
<Yes>
(I will
also have an ideal mud bed with live rock and macro algae in the
main refugium chamber area but I want to maximize all chambers).
Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated. F.
Alserri
<Welcome. You might peruse this area:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
the second tray down;
when you want a bit more re refugiums.
Bob Fenner>
Refugium Technical Help / Copper Removal from Rock Please*
7/15/08
Hello Bob and the great Crew at WWM-
<Hello!
Benjamin here today!>
I'd like to start off by thanking you
for the valuable knowledge you have shared with the reef
aquarium community and the helping me create an amazing
ecosystem (my super sized Rose Tip BTA just split into two to
much amusement to my gold-striped mated pair maroon clowns who
have spawned since).
<Thanks so much, and I'm awfully glad it
has benefited you and your livestock.>
I have been battling
hair algae in my reef tank for over a year now since adding some
live rock about a year ago (55 gallon, t-5 lighting, Eheim
filter, red sea protein skimmer). Its a mature tank 3 yrs+ and I
dare say is overstocked (see attached pics I have higher
resolution too but I wasn't sure if they'd go through email).
My nitrates, phosphates are at continuously at zero (Im sure
their higher just not picking them up in the tests). I try to
perform bi-monthly water changes at 10%. I tried reduced
lighting from 12 hours to 8 hours six months ago but then my BTA
and corals don't seem as full or bright so I returned to 12 hour
lighting and the hair algae has been growing.
<mm...yes, will
not treat the root cause, either. Unless you find and eliminate
the source of nutrient the algae is using, it will only return.>
So I have finally purchased a sump which I am converting to a
Refugium and have some technical questions which I could not
find the answers to in the library:
<Ah! Good!>
1) I
scored about 40 lbs of gorgeous Marshall Island dead rock from a
former reefer who had used a large amount of copper in his main
FOWLR tank. The rock looks okay from afar, but on close
inspection there is a slight green tint of copper on all the
rocks. I tried boiling it but the tint is still there. What can
I do to remove all copper from this rock before I cure it into
Live Rock? (the least expensive method would be most suitable
for me)
<Okay, some bad news: You've been had, perhaps
unintentionally. Live rock that has been in a copper treated
environment will never be suitable for use in a reef again;
copper is absorbed deep in the rock and slowly leached if the
rock is in water. There just isn't any way to clean and use this
rock...sorry.>
2) Should I place rocks that are heavily
infested with Hair Algae in the refugium or keep them in the
main tank? Or will the Hair Algae go away in due time if I leave
it in the main tank and add the refugium?
<Species diversity
will generally only drop in areas of disturbance. Leave these
rocks be, and they should clear up as macroalgae in the refugium
outcompete the microalgae.>
3) Should I place Rock or Macro
Algae in the first chamber where the water comes into the
refugium from the overflow? (I will also have an ideal mud bed
with live rock and macro algae in the main refugium chamber area
but I want to maximize all chambers).
<I would put a bit of
loose rock/rubble here. Water coming in will be saturated with
oxygen, aerobic bacteria on this rock will break down ammonia
into more useful nutrients for macroalgae, and in the process
produce more carbon dioxide, also a boost to your algae>
Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated.
<No problem!>
F. Alserri
<Benjamin> |
|  
|
Live rock and copper question and happy update 4/27/08
Hi
guys (Bob)
<Ron>
I am hopefully done with QT and hospital work
for a good while so I am breaking down the tank that I have used for
that purpose. Do I just throw out the live rock or do I freeze it in
a pool of saltwater... or close it up in a tub of saltwater just in
case I should need to bring the QT tank out again. I just have a
personal problem with throwing this resource out even though it is
only about 4lb of live rock.
<I would definitely NOT be throwing
out the LR... at worse, I would dry-air expose it for a few weeks,
use it as base...>
By the way just thought I would update you on
the elegance coral on one of the mast heads, after having almost
died of the dreaded problems these guys now have, this guy is doing
fine. When I bought it it had 3 mouths, disintegrated to almost
nothing to inside the clamshell and has grown into this fine
specimen with 6 mouths. By the way it is as large on the backside of
the rock as it is here on the front where you can only see 3 of the
6 mouths.
<Ah, good>
Last but not least, THANK YOU!!! for all
the fine and wonderful help provided on these pages, you have truly
helped out a newbie who considers himself a newbie and still
learning and rereading after 2 years.
ron :>)
<I as well...
after forty some. Cheers! BobF> | 
|
Copper Treatment and Tank Usage 3/3/08
Greetings,
As per your fantastic site I removed all fish from my 75 gal Ich
infested reef tank and I am letting the tank fallow while I treat the
fish in a borrowed QT. BTW, I will absolutely be purchasing a QT of my
own prior to any future additions to my reef tank.
<Yay!>
My QT is
using a sponge filter cured in the reef tank and a glass bottom with PVC
tubes as well as a skimmer.
<Mmm, no skimmer while using copper
compounds... removes them too readily>
Do I need to be concerned that
use of copper sulfate may be absorbed into the borrowed tank which the
owner plans to use as a cichlid tank when I return it to him?
<No...
not much will be absorbed...>
Besides a complete cleaning, are there
any other steps I should take before returning his tank?
<A thank
you card perhaps... or other acknowledgement>
And finally, is the Red
Sea Copper Treatment and Red Sea Test Kit (used 2 times a day) a the
best way to go?
<Is useful>
Thanks so much for providing this site
and this education. I currently use and will continue to use your
sponsors because of this service.
Kris.
<Ahh! Thank you for this.
Bob Fenner>
Safe amount of copper in source water? 2/18/08
Good
Morning/afternoon/evening, (whichever the case may be)
<AM in HI
now...>
I apologize if I missed the answer to this question whilst
scouring over, under and through the many helpful WWM faq's. I've been
pleased and appreciate very much what you all do for the many fans of
this aquatic hobby. I've always found my answers via your WWM google
search tool but alas not this time.
I have a 75 gallon reef system
which I have just recently (In the last 8 weeks) restarted. It was a
beautiful success for a few years thanks very much in part to your
helpful resources on the WWM site. After a tragic heater malfunction
<Mmm, better to use two, multiples of lower wattage...>
I lost
everything (in the dead of winter while we weren't at home with only a
wood heat source). After a year of "letting it go", nothing but sand and
live rock left, I decided to get back into it whole hearted. I now use
two heaters both above scale for my size tank so if one of them decides
to thwart my hobby the other will surely save the heart ache.
When I
ran this system before the tragedy I purchased and lugged all my ro/di
water and it was a huge pain.
<Better by far to have your own at
home>
If my question here doesn't go the way I hope then I will be
buying and hopefully installing without much incident a unit of my own.
<Is actually quite simple, even fun...>
To my question, at last. Last
fall I purchased a Crystal Quest water purification system with 7 stage
filtration. It turns out some really great water, it removes
chlorine/chloramine, nitrite, nitrate, heavy metals, all kinds of
nasties...BUT it uses a ReDox method with copper and zinc in one stage
and therefore adds >0.05mg/l of copper and .46mg/l of zinc. Is this
amount enough to worry about?
<Mmm, no... not in almost all
circumstances>
or will it have an accumulative effect in my aquarium?
<Not cumulative... this bit of free metal readily insolubilizes... drops
permanently out of solution, for the most part>
I did a huge water
change with this water when I resumed rebuilding the system and have
done a few smaller changes since. I didn't think about the copper
addition till earlier today then I started searching the faq's. I don't
have a copper testing kit as I never had to use copper when I ran the
tank before. Not that I would dream of using it in the tank, I mean for
quarantine purposes) I got those specs and totals from the Crystal Quest
website. I've had a variety of inverts in there for a couple of weeks
(dwarf hermit
crabs, 4 or 5 varieties of snails, a sally light foot,
bristle worms, spaghetti worms, a green star polyp, variety of
amphipods, copepods, mini-brittle stars, a couple of tiny Asterinas, and
an anthelia polyp from IPSF.
<Oh! Am out near there currently...
Hello to Ger Heslinga!>
All are doing wonderful and showing no signs
of stress or sickness. I do have a DSB and about 175 pounds of live
rock. Great copper absorbers I know. I don't know exactly how much
copper that comes out to in parts per million since it's listed as mg's
per liter. These are equivalents... there are 1,000 grams of water to a
liter... and a thousand milliliters to a gram of water... a million
milligrams of water per liter... mg/l is the same as ppm>
In reading
the faq's many times I've noticed that Mr. Fenner dismisses a negligible
amount of copper.
<I do... some, a "trace" amount is actually
necessary to the health of almost all life...>
I'm just not sure as
to what that amount might be outside of food additives and such. Will
this water be safe with the small amount of copper and zinc or should I
be getting an ro/di unit soon?
<You are fine here... as stated, this
small quantity of metal is taken out of solution readily, won't return
under "normal" aquarium conditions. Not to worry>
Thanking you very
much in advance for your time and consideration,
Sally
<Welcome.
Bob Fenner>
Please help/Copper 01/21/2008
I have read the FAQ of WWW until I
am blue (with copper) in the face! I am seeing so much mixed answers,
issues, etc. I am just confused and want to do what is the best thing
for my reef. We have a 75g up and running for a year and a half, 100lbs
LR and about 80lbs of LS and of course fishies and several corals (SPS,
LPS, softies, mushrooms, Claim, etc.).
<... these are not all
"Corals">
Our corals started dying, claim died and then overnight all
Stomatellas, worms, Chiton and other inverts were dead.
<Yikes!>
After a ton of research we found out that we had a brass fitting in the
sump area by the water pump.
<Ohhh>
We now know, no brass. So
replaced it, put the poly-filter pad in, did a water change and tested
for copper. Test came up negative, the poly-filter pad, after about 12
hours turned a pale blue gray color.
<Indicative>
My question,
some say replace all LR and LS because it will leach (even after running
poly-filter, etc. to pure white), others say it will be fine eventually.
<Likely the latter is more the case>
Common sense tells me if
all
inverts are dead, how can the LR still be live?
<Mmm, this material,
live and not, can/does ab/adsorb quite a bit of such metal... and has
remarkable (hence the re-marking) "powers" of regeneration>
We want
to again have a
full reef. Is it a matter of preference to replace
the LR or a matter of necessity?
<Choice does come into play, but if
it were me/mine, with this blind guess, I'd keep the present carbonate
material, and in time, add a few pounds of new over the existing>
I
want to see little critters at night when the lights are
out. please
help! Thanks so much, Geri.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Crypt. and starting over
Dear Mr. Fenner, thank you for your
response to my last Email. I did review info on dips/ baths and Crypt in
your book as well as on the website. After several bad decisions what
I'm left with is multiple Crypt casualties and a fishless 60 gallon FO
tank which has been treated with Cupramine. I plan at this time to let
the tank go fallow. I have raised the temp to 85 degrees. Should I
remove the copper with carbon at this time or let it ride until the end.
<Leave as is... it will "complex", be gone in a few days to weeks>
At
this temp would four weeks be enough time rid the tank of Crypt cyst
forms.
<... see WWM... the longer, the more sure>
Lastly, I
believe my initial outbreak of ich began because of a freshwater
(adjusted for temp and ph)/Methylene blue dip which was too short in
duration, about one minute. Because the water turns so dark with the
Methylene blue I feel I am unable to monitor the fish for agitation. Two
quick questions then I'm done. First, if the fish is not jumping and
breaking the surface can I wait five minutes before removing from the
dip solution and adding to my QT.
<Better to not "blue" the water to
such a degree... and watch for overly labored breathing...>
Last, can
I leave the fish netted in a large net during the entire dip or dose
this increase stress.
<Is fine to leave in a net... I and the fine
folks I worked with at our stores did this for tens of thousands of
specimens...>
It would certainly limit my stress. I'm determined to
reestablish my tank and not leave the hobby and I have appreciated all
of the valuable information on your site. Thank you, Mark Conley.
<Good luck, life to you Mark. Bob Fenner>
Copper Removal 9/20/07
Good day,
<Hello Eric>
I have a
pretty specific question. I have read a ton, and don't believe this to
be in the WWM FAQ's, but I could be wrong.
To make a long story
short, about 2 months ago I treated my 2 (only 1 fish showed signs, but
treated both to be sure) marine fish for Ich. They were put in a 20gal
high AGA hospital tank with water from my larger system, no filtration
(only water circulation) and copper, measured and dosed correctly. ( I
believe it was about .15?.. What the instructions stated...)
The fish
remained in the tank and I tested and changed the water and tested the
copper levels (added more when necessary) to be sure they remained
constant for a period of approximately 28 days.
Thankfully, the fish
recovered and are currently doing great in my 55 gal display tank. I do
closely monitor my fish, even more than I did before.
After I placed
the fish back in the main display (they are the only 2 fish in there) I
changed all the water from the 20 gal and replaced with new water and 2
activated carbon bags were placed in my Aquaclear filter. I ran this for
a period of one week and changed the carbon bags out, replaced them with
others.
Now that the (necessary) background is out of the way, my
question is as follows: I would like to set this tank up. I want to keep
it simple, as it's a small tank. I do have a different tank that can be
both a hospital and quarantine.
Since it's so small, I would like to
keep a few small fish (maybe a smaller goby or a clown or 2, but that's
it) and some inverts such as shrimp, snails, hermits, etc. However, I
have heard that the silicone in the tank will more than likely still
contain copper, and this will "slowly seep back into the water overtime"
(quoting an employee at the LFS).
Is this true? Will the amount be so
large that it will adversely effect the inverts?
<Yes, can
happen as invertebrates are very sensitive to low levels of copper. My
advice would be to use a Poly-Filter in this system. If any copper is
released or present, the Poly-Filter will have a blue tint to it
indicating copper presence. The Poly-Filter will remove copper from the
system. In the size tank you have, I'd cut the filter into four equal
parts using one at a time. If the blue tint is visible, replace with
another pad. The Poly-Filter does not have to have water flowing
directly through it to work, just placing it in the tank with good water
flow around it will do the trick.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James
(Salty Dog)>
Eric
Reuse of Hospital Tank that had copper sulfate. 6/23/07
Hello folks! Greetings from the great state of Texas and thanks for all
of your wonderful advice. I have been using a 10 gal glass tank as a
hospital tank and have used it to treat with antibiotics and copper
sulfate (CopperSafe). Recently , I set up a larger 30 gal hospital tank
for a powder blue tang and rusty angel, both with ich. I would now like
to use the 10 gal with a small powerhead and some live rock as a
quarantine tank for corals and inverts. (In the future, nothing goes
into my display without a 30 day quarantine to be sure any ich or other
parasites that might me hitching a ride are eliminated by the natural
life cycle.) Hope that makes sense. I am now ich paranoid. Anyway, my
question is, can I safely use the 10 gal for this purpose or is it
possible that the silicone may harbor and release enough copper to
create a problem?
Thanks and Best Regards, John
<Highly unlikely
a problem... however I'd clean the tank out thoroughly (which am sure
you have already) and might run activated carbon in a bag for the first
few months... to help the ensconced invert.s as well as pick up any
trace of Silastic released copper trace here. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Use of aquarium after copper treatment 6/6/07
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hi>
Just a quick question. A friend of mine just bought a used
aquarium that was used for freshwater. He plans on setting this tank up
as a reef. The thing is, he doesn't know if copper has been used in this
tank. I've heard that you should not use a tank that has been dosed with
copper to house invertebrates (which are quite sensitive to copper). Is
this true? <Mostly, depends on how much copper and how long of an
exposure.> Is the copper binding to the glass? <No> Or the silicone?
<Yes> Is there something we could do to make sure all the copper has
been eliminated and make sure that it is safe to keep inverts? <Yes,
there are copper test kits available, you will need a couple because of
the various forms of copper. Also, Poly-filters are good at removing
copper and change color depending on what they are absorbing.>
Once
again, thank you very much for your time,
<Welcome>
Marc.
<Chris> QT equipment, Cu exposure - 05/01/07
I
have a 30 gallon long QT/hosp tank with Emperor 280, AquaC remora
skimmer w/MJ1200 and MJ1200 for flow. All this equipment has been
exposed to copper, can it ever be used in a regular tank again? Jeff
<Yes... no problem. Very likely what little copper that has "plated out"
on the surfaces of this gear has become insoluble... You can use it,
test for free copper if you intend to utilize it with invertebrates,
algae... But I doubt if any Cupric ion will show. Bob Fenner>
Copper in tank
Hello. <Hi, Chris> First of all, I would like to
compliment you on your great website. There is so much great info. <Yes
indeed, just scratched the surface myself.> My question is in regards to
copper use in a fish and live rock tank. I had an outbreak of ick a
little while back and my LFS gave me some sea cure and told me to put it
in my tank as directed. Since then I have discovered that that was not a
good idea. Have I completely ruin my live rock and sand? I really want
to get a nice coralline covering. Is this still possible or should I
start over?
I know that the website said that my tank would never be
suitable for invertebrates after copper use. Is there any way it could
be? <Afraid so> I would really like to have some snails and cleaner
shrimp. The same guy also told me that a freshwater dip was the worst
thing you can do to a fish. After reading all the info on your website,
I am starting to second guess anything he has ever told me. Please give
me any info you can. I am in desperate need of some GOOD information. <I
think it is time to 'fire' this LFS and find another! Using the
rock/tank for fish only tank would be OK after removal of all copper in
the water column. Use Poly-Filter and carbon and a good test kit to
confirm> Thank you so much! Keep up the great work!
Thanks again ~
Chris
<Will do, and take care, Don> Ongoing Ich Problem,
Crypt causes 1/24/07
Bob:
<Teri>
I wrote you
a couple of months ago regarding my previous problems and future plans
regarding Ich.
After my last outbreak I removed all fish and put
them in a 90 gal bare tank (with water properties very close to the tank
they came from).
After they had acclimated I brought the copper
level up to .25ppm.
I removed all water, sand and rock from the
infected tanks and cleaned both (the small one (24 gal quarantine tank))
I dried and ran fresh (RO) water through for 36 hours).
I replaced
the water, sand and rock in both.
<... for what reason/s?>
I
then put the corals, sponges, shrimps, urchin, clams, snails & hermit
crabs back in the 120 reef tank and ran it fallow for a little over 2
months.
<Okay>
After about 3 weeks the bioload on the 90 gal
bare hospital tank was hard to control with so many fish in it, so I put
7 small ones in the 24 gal (which has sand & rock) and ran it as a
quarantine tank with no copper for 4-5 weeks and had my LFSs keep 12
others (8 in copper .20ppm+/-, 3 isolated in a 20 gal stand-alone rock
tank). The 12th that the LFS kept (Carpenter’s wrasse) we put in invert
cubes (without copper) and left it there for 5 weeks (didn’t develop
anything during that time).
<... my friend... Crypt was likely just
sub-clinical... is still there>
I left the ones at the LFS there for
roughly 5 weeks and none of the fish showed any signs of Ich.
<Again... most stores have resident (ongoing) parasite "issues"...
Cross-contamination is the majority rule rather than exception>
After a total of 4 weeks I began to reduce the copper concentration in
the
bare 90 gal tank, down to .10-ppm.
<No sense... Most any
value below 0.15 free cupric ion is more deleterious than useful. Do you
understand this stmt.? Not useful to have less than a physiological dose
present>
Last week I moved the 5 from the 24 gal tank back into the
120 gal tank and watched them for over a week – all ok.
I then moved
6 from the LFS back to the 90 gal tank (including 2 new ones), 3 to the
24 gal & I put the one from the invert cubes and two that’ve been in the
isolation 20 gal rock tank for 5-6 weeks (with no sign of problem)
into the 120 gal tank.
Last night I found a heavy infestation of Ich
on the one from the invert cubes
<... more susceptible species,
individuals... the vector almost certainly from the LFS...>
(I
pulled him from the 120 gal tank and tried to keep him in a small
container (w/air stone & heater) but he died sometime last night.
So: My current status is:
9 fish in the 120 gal reef
tank,:
(2 maroon gold stripe clowns,
1 Firefish,
1
Gudgeon,
1 Rainford Goby,
1 Scissortail dartfish,
2
Neon Gobies &
1 Cleaner Wrasse)
<Inappropriate...>
3 fish
in the 24 gal quarantine tank:
(1 Potter’s Angel
1 Eibli Angel
&
1 Flame Angel) all getting along,
<But very stressed, I
assure you, in this proximity>
6 fish in the 90 gal bare quarantine
tank:
(1 ½ black Mimic Tang
1 Lemonpeel Mimic Tang
1
Kole Tang
2 Wrasse &
1 Foxface)
I’m obviously going to
leave the fish in the 24 & 90 gal tanks where they are until I see what
might develop in the 120 gal tank.
<Yes... this is what I would do
as well>
Since there’s obviously been an outbreak of Ich in the 120
gal and so that I can effectively plan for current treatment and
eliminate future issues:
1. Is it most likely that it came in with
the wrasse from the Invert cubes or did it manage to survive 2+ months
in a fallow tank?
<... from the store>
2. What should my next
steps be (I’ve read and re-read all of the FAQs regarding Fallow tanks,
Quarantine tanks, Ich treatments, etc) and am at a loss as to what else
I can do.
<You are at the "cross in the road" where you can broadly
decide on one of two paths... the re-treatment of all outside the
infested system... Or staying the course, hoping for a balance in a sort
of "ping-pong" of infestation in the present situation... with tools
like supplementation, good water quality, perhaps ameliorative measures
like the use of UV, Ozone... to tilt the balance your way...>
I
thank you in advance for your invaluable advice.
Best Regards
Teri Hewson
<I am overly familiar with the situation you are in...
and entirely empathize... I have taken whole holding facilities animals
back down to the shore and released them... in the hope that some would
cure/survive... While nuking/bleaching their on-land systems... to rid
this pest... Bob Fenner>
Re: Ongoing Ich Problem
1/25/07
Bob:
<Teri>
Thank you very much for your time &
insight.
<Welcome>
A couple of clarifications:
1. The
.10ppm copper comment - I'm in the process of doing water changes to get
it down to 0.00ppm and that’s where it was when I introduced the fish
(Yes, I do understand your comment. I didn't mean that I expected it to
have any "medicinal benefit". Sorry for the mis-cue).
<Mmm, and in
an effort to be clear/er... there is actually a residual debilitating
effect of resident copper... I encourage you to purposely remove it...
With activated carbon, PolyFilter, a product engineered for this
purpose.>
2. Regarding your question on why I removed the sand,
water and rock. It was in hopes of eliminating as many Ich entities as
humanly possible (obviously could do anything to eliminate them from the
corals and their coral or rock bases), in hopes that that step, plus the
2 months of fallow period would eliminate the critters.
<Not a
worthwhile activity IMO/E... the tomites are about in "enough" quantity
to cause your fishes (and you) woe... I'd leave all present>
Do I
take it from your comment regarding the Ich at a sub-clinical level,
that no amount of fallow time will ensure that no Ich remain in the
tank?
<Mmm, correct in an absolute sense... but was referring more
to the situation at hand... that the fish in the cubicles "just didn't
show" signs... but were highly likely infested>
To guarantee no more
Ich in the tank, would you recommend starting over from scratch
(including new corals/inverts) and then follow your quarantine/F/w dip
procedures when SLOWLY reintroducing the fish?
<Mmm, no... not
unless let's say this were a service account, or some sort of wholesale
facility... that required this expedient... I would re/consider the
option ranges as stated... to re-treat all (yourself), allow the main
system to go fallow... or try to achieve a balance of infestation w/o
deaths>
With regard to the “ping-pong” direction: I do have a UV
system. What supplementation measures would you recommend as the most
effective (usually).
<Posted... along with the concomitant
rationale...>
Relative to your comment following the Cleaner
Wrasse: In my defense, I got him before I read that they’re not a good
aquarium candidate, and now he, along with my clowns, is my longest
lived fish.
<Wow! Very good>
He will, in fact, beat all other
fish to food when it’s introduced into a tank (bare, reef or what-ever)
and he’s a pretty active cleaner as well.
Finally: Most of the
remaining fish in the 120 gal reef tank have gone thru at least one
outbreak of Ich, so are probably ok to leave in the tank?
Other than
they’ll be providing hosts for the Cryptocaryon? Or should I remove
them.
Thanks again for your advice
Best Regards
Teri Hewson
<This is so. RMF, who wants to remind you that much of what is presented
is done for "general" consumption... i.e. written in mind with ultimate
posting, reading by all.>
PS: I’ll split up the Angels if you think
that’s best (but they really
don’t seem to mind each other).
<Up
to you.> Re: Ongoing Ich Problem, note to move copy of corr. to
Copper Use FAQs 1/26/07
Bob:
Again, thanks.
Your comments Re: copper finally sunk in.
Added activated carbon,
metal sponge and am doing 10gal water change/day.
I'll let you know
how the situation develops.
Cross your fingers, please
Regards
Teri Hewson
<Thank you. BobF> Copper... measure mostly
1/17/06
I have a copper question. I know it is not good to have
in your main tank, which is why I started a new 125 gallon reef ready
tank and used my own RO/di unit, but after making the initial 125
gallons of water that read 0 on my TDS meter, and getting that in my
tank. My next water readings were in the 50's, then kept getting a
little higher.
<... in the presence of? Gravel, rock? Sea salt? All
will show, increase TDS>
I didn't think much of it, but I found out
I need to repack the di membranes. Anyway, I had some copper tests left
over from my previous tank and decided to take a test just for
kicks. It turned out that the reading was at .05. (the lowest # on the
scale, however it was picking it up).
<Likely
artifactual>
My question is, Is the copper that I got out of my tap
water through my di unit as harmful and hard to get rid of as the actual
regular copper medication. I bought a Pura filtration pad and am
running that, along with activated carbon in my powerheads.
I have 150 lbs. of live sand, and 100 lbs. of live rock, and one tomato
clownfish in the tank now. Everything seems fine, but I want to get the
copper out. It's probably been in for maybe a week or two before I
caught it and put the Pura pad in. Am I too late, or do I still have
some hope.
Please advise me.
Thank You for all of
your past and Future help.
Aaron
<Not a worry... even if
present... will be transient. Bob Fenner> After Copper
Treatment 1/8/07
Hello, Mr. Fenner and crew!
<Hello Bob, Mich with you today.>
Words can't describe how much I
have learned, and enjoy your website.
<Glad to hear
this!>
My sons aquarium received a dose of copper to rid it of
crypto while his care. Sadly, he lost his entire population of fish,
and has now lost interest in the hobby.
<Sorry on both
the loss of the fish and the loss of interest.>
The tank is a 55
gallon, and is decorated with coral, none of it the living variety. I
have left the tank fallow since December 24th, and would like to get it
going once again; I have had marine aquariums on and off since 1973, but
I have never tried anything other than a fish only system. Now, on to
my question. Can I use this aquarium, its sand and some of the bare
coral in a live rock system?
<Possibly.>
Does the
application of copper eliminate it as a viable aquarium for anything
other than fish only marine keeping?
<Mmm, not
necessarily. The first thing I would do is buy and use a test kit for
copper and find out what the levels are in the system. If you have
detectable copper levels you can try running carbon, PolyFilters,
CupriSorb or ChemiPure alone or better in combination of your choosing.>
I would like to spend the upcoming weeks making the switch to live rock,
perhaps introducing a crab or organism of that nature, but frankly, I
don't know if it is OK now that it has been exposed to copper.
<Crabs are quite sensitive to copper. I would make sure there's no
detectable copper present in you system before adding any crabs.>
Any help you could lend would be very much welcomed. Please keep up
your terrific work; you are a tremendous boon to the hobby.
<Thank you for these most kind words! -Mich>
Sincerely, Bob Thomas.
Coppered Tank - 25/08/2006
Hello WWM crew, greetings from
Macedonia
<Hello Boris, You've got John from
Shanghai here.. dusting himself off after an extended absence>
I
have a question for a friend of mine. The situation is like this: He has
a system previously run fish-only, in which he regularly dosed
copper-based medication.
<Yikes!>
After that he acquired some
live rock but contrary to recommendations he didn't change change 100%
of the water, but only 50%.
<I fear that even a 100% water change
would not be sufficient. Likely even the very silicone and glass in the
tank is contaminated.>
Then regularly for 7-8 months each 10 days he
change 10% of water.
This system does not work well for him with
corals, which is to expected.
<Yes, most invertebrates will not
tolerate copper>
We wonder now, as he is planning a new system,
should we use this live rock in a new system?
<I wouldn't. I also
wouldn't use this tank in a reef system again. Should be OK for a
fish-only system, but the live rock may be... rather "dead.">
Thank
you in advance
<You're welcome! Thanks for writing. John W.>
Boris Re: Coppered live rock follow up -
1/9/2006
Hi John,
<Hi again Boris.>
Thanks for the
reply. One more question, LR is somewhat full of live, small amphipods
and copepods are crawling. There is Coralline algae growth too. One more
suggestion please?
<Hmmm it doesn't sound too bad if 'pods are
surviving. I still would be very cautious about putting coppered rock in
my tank. Perhaps you could set up a small holding tank and introduce a
fish /invertebrate as a bio-assay? Best regards, John>
Cheers
Boris
Activated Carbon/Medication Removal 7/10/06
Hi
I have a question about activated carbon. I added some medication
to my 55 gallon display tank to try to cure the outbreak of ich to no
avail.
<Was treatment maintained for 24-28 days.>
So I have
decided to remove all my fish into 2 QT tanks and let the display go
fallow for a month. Can I just place bags of activated carbon into the
display to absorb the medication and turn on my skimmer too, or do I
need to place the carbon into the actual canister filter tray?
<Is
better to place in a canister filter. I'd leave the skimmer running.>
I will do water changes too, of course, and try to siphon up any of the
parasites that may be on the sand bed.
<No need to siphon parasites,
will die within the 30 day period without a host.>
Hopefully in a
months time it will be a much better environment for the fish to return
to.
<Yes, and do quarantine future additions for 28-30 days.>
In
the meantime what invertebrates are best for aeration of the sand,
starfish or hermit crabs? Thank you for all your help.
<Sand sifting
starfish work best, and in a 55, I would only add one. James (Salty
Dog)>
Albany
Live Rock...Copper - 05/29/06
Dear Crew,
Thank you for the great information that you provide to
us hobbyists. <You're welcome.> I have read all the information, and
varied opinions that involve live rock and copper in your FAQ's but I
still find no resolve to my current situation. I have a 45gal FOWLR with
about 50lbs of live rock that was, of course, beautiful till I added
CopperSafe to the tank to cure an ich problem. My LFS provided the
insight, I provided the ignorance. I have removed all of the copper, via
CupriSorb and Boyd's ChemiPure. I have 0 copper in my tank as far as a
test kit goes, yet kept it all in there due to your FAQ's regarding
possible leaching. My rock is all brown now, and I am adding a small
amount of new "live" rock at a time to try and "seed" the rock back
alive. Is this possible, or hopeless? I see no featherdusters on my old
rock, or anything else that seems "alive". I would assume that the wet/
dry I have is keeping things half way stable as far as my bio-filter
goes, I have stable readings across the board as far as testing goes
(ammonia, PH, Nitrite all 0, and less than 10 ppm nitrate) Is the rock
that I have going to be a bio- filter still, or is it now base rock?
Can what was lost, become "alive" again?
I miss all my little
critters that were all over in there, thank you in advance for all your
help (crew) you are an inspiration to us all out here.
<Billy, even
though you read 0 for copper, the rock has absorbed copper, almost
acting like a protective film on it preventing any living organism from
growing on it. I believe it would be quite some time before anything
will grow on it. I would suggest replacing your tainted/treated
rock. Do consider a quarantine tank in the future. It will eliminate
this problem. James (Salty Dog)> <<RMF would suggest that this rock is
likely fine, the copper rendered almost solubilized completely. I'd add
some new on top to re-seed it>>
Billy Re:
Live Rocks and Shrimps... Copper removal - 05/22/2006
Dear
Mr. Bob Fenner
<Rachel>
I have emailed you earlier when I
treated my main tank with copper. Fortunately it got rid of White Spots
(knocking on wood) and now I have some other concerns. It has been about
3 weeks now and my fish are doing great in the 80G. About 2 weeks ago I
did a 25% percent water change and placed 2 large packs of Super
Activated Carbon to get rid of the Copper. When the copper was added to
my tank about 2 months ago my protein skimmer was removing copper with
large amounts of form formation so I turned off the skimmer.
<Yes,
usually necessary>
In the current scenario after treating the tank
and adding the Activated Carbon I turned on the skimmer, for the first
day or two it created some form and then worked as usual/normal. I have
some green & brown algae also growing nicely on the sand bed and some
rocks now.
<An indication of a lack of copper>
So I was
wondering is it now okay to add some new cured live rocks into my tank?
Does the green and brown algae formation show signs of a Copper-free
environment?
<Yes and yes>
Also I am wondering whether to add a
couple of shrimps to my tank. I know they are very sensitive to copper
but do you think it’ll be fine now?
<Very likely so>
Normally do
you dip the shrimps in a freshwater bath like new fish?
<No... is
quite harmful to these and most other invertebrate groups. I would NOT
do this>
And also as shrimps are not a vector for white spots
(learnt from your FAQs), is it alright to add them straight into the
main tank with careful acclimation? Thanks, Best regards,
<For
observation and "rest" considerations, is best to quarantine these
animals as well... There is generally little risk of introducing
disease, parasites with crustaceans however... It is merely that they
are "wet", and their water, exoskeletons might bring along such that is
a concern. Bob Fenner>
Rachel Re: "melting" corals 12-12-05
follow-up to the follow-up... processing possibly contaminated RO
1/19/06
Hello, Bob. My priors are below for review of my
system. Have now lost the torch coral, too. Pachyclavularia and
leather mushroom remain, and a plate
that looks like it's
struggling. The fish are just fine. I may have figured it out, but I'm
not sure, and wanted your opinion. I place some PolyFilter
during
my troubles to combat negative cnidarian interactions, and when I pulled
it, it was blue.
<Yikes!>
I've never medicated the
tank, but I bought a copper test kit....
0 in distilled water
.15 mg/L in the tank
.25 mg/L + in my RO water that I've been using
(new filters a month ago)
I noticed a very recent email on your site
about copper in the source water, and you guys recommended RO, but I'm
already doing that, and still with the copper.
<Very strange>
I
started the tank with bottled water, not RO, so I'm wondering if after
time and water changes over several months, copper accumulation may be
the issue in spite of the RO I'm using now...
<Could be... the blue
color...>
Does this make sense that the copper at those levels is
killing off my livestock?
<As stated, a possibility>
If it does,
how do I combat? Does carbon pull out copper?
<Yes... activated>
Do you think it would be sufficient to continuously run carbon and/or
PolyFilters, or do I
need to convert to (expensive) bottled water
for all my water changes and top-offs?
Haven't lost hope, yet, but
I'm getting there.....
Tim
<Processing your RO water in a
container that hast activated carbon in a filter... should definitely do
it. Bob Fenner> Copper In Source Water - 01/13/2006
WWM
Team,
<Hey Joe!>
I have researched a lot on the web, books, and
your FAQ and most of this topic are about Self Inflicted Copper Levels
(i.e. Ick Treatment). My concern is slightly different and info seems to
be limited. I have well water and when tested came out at 0.2-0.3ppm for
copper.
<Argh! That's no good.>
I am getting ready to add some
Live Rock to a newly set-up tank, and need to know if this would kill
the LR and I'm just wasting my money?
<The copper would
kill invert. hitchhikers. Best to solve the copper problem before adding
to the tank.>
I also had plans on a Volitans and a Snowflake Moray
which I know are both scaleless and sensitive to Copper. Should I be
worried?
<I think you are right to be.>
What can be done to help
with this (Carbon, RO, or Both)?
<I would go RO for well water.>
I was not quite planning on an RO unit but if it is needed then so be
it. Didn't know if I could solve this with Carbon alone.
<I believe
your safest bet is to go RO.>
Thanks as always!
Joe
<You're
welcome. - Josh> Re: Copper In Source Water - 01/13/2006
I
bought 80 gallons of Purified Culligan Water for original set-up, and
will be picking up an RO unit ASAP for water changes.
<I think
you'll be glad to have it.>
So I'll be starting out with 0 copper or
lead in the tank.
<Good stuff (as long as they stay that way).>
Thanks Josh.
Joe
<Sure thing Joe. - Josh>
Copper Treatment In The Display Tank...Don't - 12/04/05
Hi,
<<Howdy>>
I have a 55 gallon fish only marine tank. Its been running
for well over a year and a half.
<<Ok>>
But when I originally set
it up the first fish I put in came down with ich.
<<No quarantine
eh.>>
I treated the tank with copper
<<Uh-oh>>
and he is still
alive today. I know my tank can never be used for a reef tank because of
the copper being in the substrate/rock/glass caulking, even though the
water reads the copper level is at zero, but if I clean my Remora
protein skimmer can it be used later on in a reef tank or is it tainted
now?
<<I think it will be fine.>>
If not what should I use to
clean it to make it reef safe if anything?
<<Give it a soak in a weak
vinegar solution (4 parts water to 1 part vinegar) overnight, rinse
well, and you'll be ready to go.>>
Thanks, Jeff
<<Regards, EricR>>
More On Treating Your Display With Copper...DON'T! - 12/04/05
Gentlemen,
<<Hello...but I should mention...some pretty sharp
"Ladies" here as well.>>
<<<Yes, like Marina, Jeni/Pufferpunk,
Thanks again for providing all enthusiasts with such a great resource.
<<We enjoy helping/being here.>>
I've researched extensively on this
sight and found many topics regarding copper treatments (such as
Coppersafe) and live rock and that you should never treat the main tank.
<<Indeed>>
Well, unfortunately I treated my FOWLR tank with
Coppersafe and I was wondering if my Fiji rock will ever be "live"
again.
<<The odds are not in your favor. Best to remove/replace.>>
My assumption is that all the life that was in this rock was
extinguished by the Coppersafe.
<<Likely, yes...and unfortunately the
rock will retain some amount of copper.>>
Can this "life" ever be
restored?
<<Never to its original state.>>
If so, what do you
suggest? It is a matter of re-curing the rock and then subjecting it to
the good lighting, trace elements, calcium, iodine, etc.?
<<If you
desire true "live rock", you must replace this treated/tainted rock.>>
Also, if the main tank was treated with Coppersafe will the hardware
ever allow me to keep invertebrates as some point?
<<Hardware should
be fine...but I recommend you replace any substrate/rock.>>
In other
words are the pump (Mag7), wet/dry and all affected to where they cannot
be used for a reef setup or will some elbow grease and a good cleaning
of all the components make them useable again?
<<A good cleaning in a
weak vinegar solution with a freshwater rinse should do fine.>>
Thanks again for your help.
Jason
<<Regards, EricR>>
Copper sulfate in food 11/19/05
Hi,
<Hello>
I
recently noticed that Dainichi has a pellet food for marine fish. The
label says that it contains copper sulfate. Do you think this would be
harmful to my cleaner shrimp?
<Mmm, nope. Not high concentration, and
will become insolubilized quickly...>
They often eat some of the food
that I feed to the fish. I was attracted to the product because it is
formulated with Cyclop-eeze. I currently feed a variety of foods- frozen
Mysis shrimp, krill, Cyclop-eeze, Ocean Nutrition Formula II and Prime
Reef flake. I e-mailed Dainichi and they said that the amount of copper
sulfate was too small to be harmful to shrimp or corals, but I wanted to
get your opinion before I tried it.
Thanks!
Joy
<I agree with
them... and have met one of the principals of the company... a mighty
fine woman, good products. Bob Fenner> How Long Does It Take
For Carbon To Remove Coppersafe? No Background - 11/14/2005
Hi, I
have moved most of my fish to a hospital tank. I had added CopperSafe
about 1 week ago.
<Okay....>
Today I added a sponge filter with
carbon, I would like to start the treatment over using hopefully Quick
Cure - instead of CopperSafe.
<Uhh, why, what are you treating for,
what kind of fish.... and other crucial bits of info....>
Does this
sound wise?
<Couldn't tell, without some background.>
Also how
long does it take the carbon to remove existing CopperSafe in the water?
<The carbon will lose its efficacy within hours and need to be replaced
- you'll only know when the copper is "gone" by testing for it.>
THANK YOU for your time -Kim Kallas
<Wising you well, -Sabrina>
Live Rock and Copper HELP! 11/12/2005
Crew,
<Tirion>
Help! :) : I know you are all busy but I have an opportunity to buy
(quickly) a bin of absolutely gorgeous rock, has been cleaned and dry
for 2 years. Since I am laid off and need rock, this is a great
opportunity. Wondered why it was so cheap, turns out the person used
copper in his reef 2 years ago and you know the drill. Is there ANY way
to utilize this rock in a mixed reef system?
<Yes, likely so... the
copper is probably so fully insolubilized by exposure to the elements,
carbonaceous rock that it will not re-enter solution>
It is gorgeous
and almost perfect amount I need. To my knowledge, a great deal has
likely gone insoluble or could be removed by placing in a tub with
carbon filtration and checking the copper levels?
<Yes, a good extra
precautionary measure>
I would check the levels, filter heavily a few
days with over a pound of media like carbon or matrix in a 40 gallon tub
at 200+gph with a HOB, stop filtration for a day and check settled
levels, etc. and so on. Are there any other chemicals or media I should
consider?
<Not that I would use, suggest>
I can pick this up
(like 50 or so lbs) for less than $30 and it is prime Fiji and Tonga.
Your thoughts? Thanks in advance, the stuff won't be there long.
<I would go ahead with your plans. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re:
Live Rock and Copper HELP! 11/12/2005
Thanks!
<Welcome>
I am going to try and get it! If you like, I can let you know along the
way any detection/issues so this might be a baseline for how to recycle
copper infected live rock (clean it, store it, filter, test.. etc..)
<I'd appreciate this>
I plan on soaking, filtering and have decided I
will use Carbon (probably minimal effect but cheap) and Poly (can see
absorption and better capture)- not sure about Cupramine yet.
<?>
I have a means to have a chromatograph and mass spec detect whatever is
in solution (ion, chel., at any concentration,
better than Salifert)
periodically until I am satisfied. I can be patient sometimes - NOT :).
<Heeee!>
Thanks so much and you all take care. BTW, the SeaClone is
still producing a medium dry foam and a cup of superior near black
skimmate every 3 to 4 days. :).
<Real good. Bob Fenner> Re:
Live Rock and Copper HELP! 11/12/2005
I meant CupriSorb,
not Cupramine :).
<Ahh!>
I was not sure about the success in
detecting inactive Copper from products such as Cupramine, however I am
certain the mass spec can detect about anything.
<Yes. BobF>
Re: Copper Treated Live Rock 01-04-06
I promised to give Bob an
update on an issue - Previously copper (chelated) medicated live rock,
dry for a number of years.
<<I made this a new article.>>
We
both agreed that the copper might well be bound and the rock relatively
safe to use if treated (CupriSorb, charcoal, changes, heavy flow,
poly). I did in fact get a quantity of the rock (beautiful and Cheap).
Placed in tub, circulated tank change water (tank water has no copper
detectable) for 2 days to allow it to come to any
solution. Tested. Level was 0.25 ppm. Wow.
Full water change. 2
Days later, .024 ppm. Full water change.
Hang on filter (200+gph)
with carbon inserts and extra carbon in chambers.
Additional carbon
bag in powerhead flow. Temp maintained at 80F. Cuprisorb used as well
as poly.
Changed 20% water each 48 hours.
Tested on week
later. 0.22ppm. Same routine again, another week later 0.22ppm.
End result, IMHO. It is unusable for even a FO tank. At the rate of
success, it might take years to get the copper to a level safe for even
hermit crabs, who can withstand fairly high chelated copper levels. I
pulverized most of it (painful) and trashed it so no one would see it in
the dump and say "great reef rock!". I guess even bound copper can
readily become soluble. So, if anyone has similar scenario in future, I
would advise them to just. say...no... - even to dry rock that had any
previous copper use.
<<Thank you for the update. I have always
wanted to do a study on this topic. Great info!!! Travis>>
Take care
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