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FAQs about Subgenus Euxiphipops Angelfish Selection
Related Articles: Euxiphipops, Marine Angelfishes,
Related FAQs: Euxiphipops
Angels 1, Euxiphipops
Angels 2, Euxiphipops Angel
Identification, Euxiphipops Angel
Behavior, Euxiphipops Angel
Compatibility, Euxiphipops Angel Systems,
Euxiphipops Angel Feeding,
Euxiphipops Angel Disease,
Euxiphipops Angel Reproduction,
Marine
Angelfishes In General, Selection,
Behavior, Compatibility,
Health,
Feeding,
Disease, |
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P.E. xanthometopon
05/14/08
Hi All,
<Daren>
You guys/gals rock! Love the site! Been successful with the hobby in the last 3
yrs because of it! Much kudos gang! Real quick question that I haven't been able
to find. Is there any difference between the blueface angelfish that have the
black eye spot on its tail and ones that do not?
Thanks, Daren
<Just the spot... about the same (low) adaptability/survivability in captivity.
Bob Fenner>
"The Conscientious Marine
Aquarist" Euxiphipops suitability/sel. 4/1/08
Mr. Fenner,
<Craig... Oh, I used to work for a Dr. Kaplan in San Diego... taking care of a
fish tank in their waiting room...>
I would like to begin by saying that my son and I thoroughly enjoy your book.
Even though it has been a number of years since it was initially published, the
message remains the same.
<Ah, yes... and I've been told the 2d ed. is due out next week (first time a
book by myself has made such...)>
There are a number of fish and invertebrates that for one reason or another are
totally unsuitable for captive maintenance. I applaud your stance on this
subject. Until the market dries up, they will continue to be imported. I have
seen numerous Regal Angelfish and Moorish Idols waste away. But, because they
are uneducated, people continue to purchase them.
<Yes... a shame... for all>
I would like to ask you about a particular fish, Pomacanthus [Euxiphipops]
xanthometopon. Or, as it is commonly known, the Blue-Face (or Yellow-Face)
Angelfish. In your book (on page 251), you say that this fish does not have a
good survival record in marine aquariums.
<This is so historically... though, many better specimens are to be had... and
have had several good reports of success with small "Bali" individuals>
I was surprised by this as I have had a running salt water aquarium for more
than 30 years and have considered this fish to be a good choice for all but
first time aquarists. We had a fire in our home in December of 2004 that totally
destroyed the home and all of our belongings. At the time, I had an Oceanic 58
gallon marine aquarium. My fish survived the fire. Since the fire department had
pulled the meter from the home thus cutting off the electricity, the UPS took
over and kept the pumps running. When my son and I entered the house once the
fire was extinguished (4 hours later), we found that the fish had survived. I
ran several extension cords out the window into my neighbor’s garage to keep the
tank running. The next day, I captured my fish and took them to my local fish
store.<Quite an ordeal!>It took 1 year, 10 months and 16 days to rebuild the
house. We moved back in on October 20, 2006. A couple of months later, I
purchased my new aquarium, a 150 gallon tank. We have it stocked with only fish
and run copper in the tank
<Ahh, you and I are old-timers>
and use an oversized UV sterilizer in order to minimize the chance of parasites
causing problems. The king of the tank is a Blue-Face Angelfish. This fish eats
everything that we feed. We use the Lifeline Herbivore and Carnivore food
supplemented by other types of food in order to provide a variety. Honestly, my
experience shows the Blue-Face Angelfish is a tough, hardy fish. Nearly all of
the fish that make their way to the stores in my area (Orlando, FL metropolitan
area) come through wholesalers in either Tampa or Miami. In the same Genus, my
experience is that the Navarchus is a little bit less bold and shy. But, if it
is added early in the process and it has lots of places to retire, than it too
can be a long lived aquarium specimen. I have found the Sexstriatus
<Sexstriatus... the six line... My fave of the subgenus>
to be, perhaps, the hardiest member of the Genus. I have had them begin to feed
minutes after being released into their new homes. In fact, the Sexstriatus can
be a bully at times. I have kept them with triggerfish of the same size and they
have done well. I’m sure you have first-hand experience that led you to your
opinion. But, I wanted to let you know that (as regards Pomacanthus
[Euxiphipops] xanthometopon) my experience has been the exact opposite of
yours.<I thank you for this. Do understand that I have many more "data points",
having traveled, help establish many collecting stations, had MANY conversations
with folks in the livestock wholesale trade over decades...>I still enjoy your
book and recommend it to others. I will watch for additional titles in the
future. Best wishes to you! Craig L. Kaplan
<Thank you for sharing. I will accumulate/post your input on WWM. Cheers, BobF
in Borneo>
Re: Was Large Angelfish et.
al... now Navarchus sel. 11/3/07
Bob,
I have given some thought to what you said about a pair of Golden Butterflies. I
think I'm going to do it. However, I would like to know the difference (if any)
between a Majestic angelfish that comes from Bali vs. Solomon Islands ?? Is it
just color? What about hardiness or temperament?
Thanks
Kirk
<Mmm, don't know much about the livestock coming out of the Solomon's currently,
but the subgenus coming out of Bali has been steadily good for years... The
small/er specimens readily accepting foods... And not apparently cyanided. BobF>
Blueface Angel (Pomacanthus xanthometopon) 1/16/06
I'm thinking about purchasing a small adult only 3 inches for my 90 gallon plus
20 gallon sump that i have running.
<This is too small a system>
my question is after reading a few articles i know that these fish enjoy
sponges, do you know anywhere that you
can purchase sponges that could be placed in the tank for the angel to eat???
<Most wholesalers carry some Pacific sponges... some oriental food stores sell
dried...>
Right now i have a dogface puffer, clown trigger, Huma trigger, and
a niger. All are around 3 inches or smaller.
<Too crowded>
I know that this angel will get big, but i have a deal with a local friend
that buys the fish that i have that out
grow my tank and puts them into his display tanks at local businesses.
<Will/would be miserable in the meanwhile... short answer. Don't do it>
Do you think all of these fish would get along???
<No>
i really would like to add a blueface, harlequin tusk and maybe a bird
wrasse???? what do you think????
<Mmm, that you should work in a public aquarium, perhaps a large marine-oriented
fish store... save up for larger systems... Plan on a career in aquatics. Bob
Fenner>
thank you greatly
André
Marine Angels Euxiphipops 10/6/05
Hi, I have a 90 gallon FOWLR tank with 85 lbs of live rock and I was
wondering if I could keep a medium sized blue face angelfish (4-6 in). <I would
not advise this, the adult length of this fish is considerably over a foot.> My
LFS told me fully-grown adults need at least 100g <Your LFS’s estimate was
modest at best, and that’s being polite. This fish will eventually require a
tank in the 180+ gallon range.> but I also heard that in captivity they don't
tend to reach they're full length. <This is somewhat true, but the common myth
that “Fish grow to size of their tank” is ludicrous. As responsible aquarists
we should plan for the largest potential size for any of the animals in our
care. Furthermore I have personally witnessed the specimen in question to grow
to 18” in length in private aquaria.> Do you have any suggestions? <I would not
purchase this fish. While I’m pretty sure I made it clear that its potential
size disqualifies it from being a good candidate for you, I did not even begin
to discus the specifics of (Euxiphipops xanthometopon). This fish is notorious
for not adapting to captivity or captive foods. It is best left to veteran
aquarists with large mature tanks. For more info on this fish please research
via the WWM FAQ’s. Adam J.>
Marine Angels
Hey Bob, how's it going?
<Bob is in Cozumel right now. Steven Pro at your service.>
I have a question, I have a 55 gallon FOWLR, 45lb LR about 3" of LS a
protein skimmer will be upgrading soon to a Aquamedic, a Fluval 404 canister
filter, 2 Maxijets powerheads on a WaveMaster for circulation and a Tessellated
eel it's been set up for 8 months now. I was going to set up a 55 gallon reef
tank until the other day I saw a Blueface Angel at the LFS that left me and my
girlfriend amaze and from that day on I been researching info on these
spectacular fishes and I was reading that these fishes don't last long on
captivity
<They are not the hardiest of Angelfish.>
and also that they need a minimum of 100 gallon for them to be happy.
<I would even say larger.>
Could you tell me what is there average life span in captivity
<Their average lifespan is probably remarkably short due to all the losses in
the chain of custody. If you obtain a healthy specimen, though, you could expect
it to live for ten years or more.>
and could I keep small specimen in my 55 gallon for a while?
<I cannot recommend this.>
I know is kind of small, could it last more than a year in my tank?
<There is a greater likelihood that this additional stress of being cramped
would be more than your fish could tolerate.>
I am still going to school and do not have space in my apartment for a bigger
fish tank but I am looking forward in keeping a 125-180 in a year or so from
now.
<I would get a dwarf Angelfish for now, something in the genus
Centropyge.>
Thank you for your help. By the way I love your website.
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Large angelfish selection 7/17/05
I just wanted to say thank you, I was convinced that I had to have a 6
banded angel, and that no others would do! That was until I read your article
and realized that it would be so selfish of me to buy this beautiful creature
only to have it die after only months.
<Likely weeks, even days.>
I would never want to be a part of the death of such a magnificent
creature! Your article has convinced me to get a Koran when I am ready for
one! I really appreciate all of your wonderful advice, especially since my LFS
has NO IDEA about anything. ( They recommended and I now own the
problematic Seaclone 150!) No longer will I take their word for it! I think
people like you and sites like this can help hobbyists realize that many are out
to push the product, and not truly interested in the well being of the
fish! Thank you again, Tanis Montminy
<Thank you for your acknowledgment and bolstering our sense of what we're doing
here. Bob Fenner>
Blue face angel, large angel sel.
HI and thanks for the opportunity for my question. I have the
opportunity to purchase a 30 cm Blue face angel. I personally think it's
wrong to capture fish this size for the aquarium trade but means nothing to
the blue face I'm thinking of buying. I would like to ask you if you think
it's wise buying a fish this size,
<I do think it's a poor idea to send such illiterate messages... use your
spelling, grammar checkers, please>
( I really feel for the poor thing and it is a stunning fish), and what size
tank should it really belong in so it's quite comfortable. I have a 550
litre tank, 4x 2 x 2 ( sorry we work in litres in Australia) to accommodate
this fish while another tank can be established. Any advice you can give
would be greatly appreciated.
<In general large specimens of pomacanthids collected wild fare poorly...
You can read re my opinions re Euxiphipops on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Majestic angels
Hi Bob, Bob I have a 100gal fish only tank Sunset Wrasse, Purple Tang, Clown
Trigger,
Min. Grouper, Volitans Lion, Clown Tang & Potters Angel I just had an
Ich
problem that I had to treat in my Main Tank with copper the spots went
away
but the fish continued to scratch now the clown trigger & purple tang
look
pale and all of the fish are constantly scratching the clown is getting
cauliflower like spots on his fins I've done a water change and added some
TLC now I have a 20Gal. QTANK setup what should I do. By the way they are
all eating good just scratching and it looks like there fins are starting
rot
please advise.
Thanks Rock
>>
Well, the twenty won't hold all these fishes for treatment or any other
purpose... so it's back to treating them in place... Did you use a copper test
kit? From the sounds of the looks of the animals and their behavior... it looks
like they were alternatively over-coppered, and the ich-under-coppered...
You/they still have it... Did you manipulate specific gravity and temperature?
There are many possibilities here... and a need to figure out what is going on
and make some changes... NOW. Take a read through all the input on Parasitic
Diseases under the Marine Articles section of my site www.wetwebmedia.com....
and get ready to add nitrifying bacteria (from the twenty? if you can culture it
quick... maybe with some live rock there.... Or from commercial cultures...) and
do successive water changes....
Bob Fenner, who doesn't like "this ride" either.
Thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.
I think it most likely I will not be getting a navarchus angel ...... I have
had a couple of warnings about them, but saying that I was thinking perhaps
they just got bad specimens, so I said I would get your advice and go
with that instead.
As they say, if one person says it, you think "maybe", if two say it
you
still think "maybe", when three say it you think "maybe
not", and when
everyone says it, chances are they're right ! So I'll take your advice, and
cast my vote my not buying one, to let them where they are best left .... in
the ocean (and keeping my money where it is best left .. in my
pocket.....LOL).
<Or for that new system!>
Thanks again,
I'll be speaking to you again, no doubt. Regards, Matt
>>
<No doubt. I wish you well. Bob Fenner>
Euxiphipops angels
I recently bought Scott W Michael's Marine Fish (the pocket guide). His book,
like your is published by microcosm. His fish rating system is 1-5, 5 being the
hardiest, one the worst. He rates the Euxiphipops angels at three for navarchus
and sexstriatus and 4 for xanthometopon. I was just wondering if you would agree
with this ( I'm not sure how to translate the 1-5 w/ your 1-3 rating system.
Also, the emperor angel is a three, making it less hardy than the Blueface? I
was just curious... thanks for your insight
- Yaron Aronowicz
>>
Have Scott's works... and do rate the subgenus much lower (1's for the Blue Face
and Navarchus, 2 for the Six Striped...) than he does... Scott worked in the
retail part of the trade, in Nebraska... I have worked in all aspects of the
trade... in Japan, the Philippines, and southern Calif. in the U.S.... and
probably have seen more of the "real spectrum" of what the industry is
like... Scott's views are accurate no doubt... for the probably excellent
specimens he has come in contact with in the middle of the U.S... If you only
got "hand picked" members of these species, that hailed from other
than Indo. the P.I..... yours would likely do better than the
"average" as well...
I rate the Emperor about a 4 (to five for ones from further into the I.O, Red
Sea... on this scale...
Bob Fenner
Blueface Selection
I purchased a blue faced angel two days ago. He's about 3 1/2" and
almost
his full adult color. Upon doing some research, (a couple of different
books
and hobby notes from ff express) I thought this fish would be the perfect
last addition to my tank, keeping with the indo pacific theme.
Just yesterday I came upon your article at wet web media (unfortunately a
little too late) which states that these angels don't do well and will
more
than likely die. I'm devastated and don't know what to do.
I currently have a 135 gallon tank with trickle filter, protein skimmer,
UV sterilizer and the water quality is very good, I also have 60 pounds of
live rock. The tank currently contains a purple tang, Sailfin tang,
raccoon
butterfly, Valentini puffer, lemon peel angel, coral beauty and a couple
of
purple Firefish. The blue faced angel was going to be the last fish added
and possibly replacing the coral beauty and lemon peel.
He is currently in my quarantine tank after a dip, and I would really like
to keep him. He is currently eating spinach, but will not accept any meaty
foods yet.
My question is A.: What can I do to increase his chance of survival; B:
When placed into my main tank, do you foresee any compatibility problems
with
any of my other fish; C: Do you recommend medicating a delicate angel as a
preventative measure and D: Should I return him and choose not to take on
the challenge and do you recommend any other Angels? Thanks,
Bob. From Tom
>>
You are right in thinking my opinion is as you state... Most Blue Face Angels
(Pomacanthus Euxiphipops xanthometopon) don't live for long in captivity... But
you are by far not the "average" hobbyist... you've no doubt gotten an
excellent specimen if it is eating spinach in a/your quarantine tank, have an
established reef system of size, with peaceable tankmates.... that the Blue Face
can dominate.... I rate your chances very good... I don't see any social
dynamics problems... I would not "medicate" the fish (just quarantine
it for two weeks, maybe adding a biological cleaner for insurance and company),
and not worry otherwise.
Bob Fenner
Majestic
Angel
Hi Bob,
Thank-you for answering my previous questions. You have been a tremendous
help!
I have another question and would love to hear/see your input about a 4"
adult Majestic angel (Euxiphipops navarchus) that has been in my local
retail store for the past 2 months. I understand you have stated that this
angel is a poor choice for home aquarium. However, the Majestic is eating
and accepting various food types frozen/flake). The owner told me that he
has given 3 formalin baths to the Majestic the first month, but did not
administer one since. The angel appears to be healthy and behaves
"normal".<Sounds
like a very nice... and well-adjusted specimen.>Here
is my question, since this Majestic has been in captivity for some time
(2 months), do you think it will be wise to purchase this angel or should I
leave this specimen alone?<If I were ever going to buy one, this
specimen would be it>Your
thoughts/comments are greatly appreciated.
Thanks. Dan<Most
of the three members of the subgenus Euxiphipops don't "make it"
through the first couple of weeks of captivity, handling, shipping... Ones that
have survived these rigors and are eating a variety of foods are likely to do
well... As I stated, if ever there was one I would buy, it would be one with
these qualifications.
Bob Fenner>
Majestic Angels
In your experience, have Majestic Angels been more hardy from certain
collection areas, such as Australia? thanks
<Yes, there is a significant difference in hardiness of this species (Euxiphipops
Pomacanthus navarchus). The best ones I've seen are small individuals (3-4"
overall) from Bali. Bob Fenner>
Euxiphipops navarchus
Hi Guys - My LFS has had an exceptional specimen for the past week now - It is
full bodied and healthy looking. I have gone each day now for a week and
observed it feeding and becoming less shy. All the literature suggests that this
is not an easy angel to keep, however based on the suggestions from Bob's book I
feel I have a good candidate here. I was going to pick your brain for any other
suggestions that the group may have regarding this particular species. Any
thoughts that you have would be most welcome.
Regards, Ric Raley
<I do have a few suggestions for this challenging fish. First off, select
what appears to be a healthy specimen, which it seems you have. You need a large
tank, at least 90 gallons, and a good bit of liverock. Another good piece of
equipment would be a refugium connected to your main tank. Not so much for the
plankton it would generate, but to give your liverock a place to re-grow some
more food stuff for the angelfish. You might want to cycle rock from the main
display into the refugium for a month to recover from overgrazing.
Best of luck, Steven Pro>
Marine Angelfish
I have lost a Navarchus angel due in part to me. I had a friend watching my tank
and the pH dropped and was not corrected until my noticing, which was too late.
The angel in particular I lost was the Navarchus. However, this fish was eating
which to my knowledge (and said on WWM) is the main problem with this particular
fish, not water quality.
<a common obstacle>
Was I lucky to have gotten a healthy eating fish?
<not at all... many thousands are imported eating well... just some
mishandled ones have imparted this reputation>
This specimen I have traced back to being bought from Quality Marine wholesaler,
which to my knowledge sells good quality.
< a very fine wholesaler historically>
I was wanting to get another angel because I had already purchased a 125gal.tank
for this Navarchus when he grew up. In your opinion is quality marine a quality
place that can be trusted to send another Navarchus in healthy condition with a
healthy appetite?
<absolutely. I have used them for the better part of a decade and consulted
many stores that have used them even longer with pleasure>>
Or should I invest my money in another species? I am also fond of Annularis,
Asfur, and Imperator angels also. Thanks for the help.
John
<the Annularis Angel is far and away the HARDIEST of all mentioned. It is and
incredible fish and gets my vote above all. Anthony Calfo>
Australian fish worth the extra cash?-
Dear Wetwebmedia crew <Hi!>
Is it worth it to buy a fish from Australia? <Sometimes> Are they more
colorful? <Sometimes> Or hardier? <Pretty safe bet that they've been
net collected at least.> Or just more expensive. <Usually!> I know red
sea specimens are worth the extra money (but this angel doesn't come from
there) Just wondering and can't find it in the FAQs (looking at
purchasing a Blueface angel from marine center). <Since they still commonly
come from the Philippines, getting an Australian one will pretty much guarantee
you that they have been properly handled and not been juiced. The color may be
better as well, but that varies specimen to specimen. Enjoy the new angel (hope
you have a large enough tank!) -Kevin> Thanks Gary Peterson
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