Blue Face Angel/Systems/Care 5/18/09
Dear Bob,
<James with you today Ferdinand.>
How fast does a six inches blue face angel could outgrow a 90 gallon of tank with a 40 gallon sump? He is alone in the tank. Is it possible to keep the fish for 2 years with a good feeding? Thanks for sharing your experience.
<I would not recommend doing so. The actual swimming room would only be seven times the length of his body.  Pretty crowded for a fish that size and will likely stunt his growth. You may want to read here and related articles/FAQs.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/euxiphipops.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
Sincerely,
Ferdinand

Fish that school in a marine tank, and Angel compatibility  10/19/07
Hey Crew,
<Darby>
I'm building up a 90-long, and hope to a mixed reef with nice pretty fish and corals when all is said and done (don't we all). It's an oddly proportioned tank, as it's 24" tall, 12" deep, and 6' long. Hopefully this will give lots of swimming space. The stand will be slightly deeper than the tank, probably around 18", in order to allow for a good sized sump/refugium (probably in the 45 gal range). I'm a bit of a fan of zoas and things that wave around, so I'll be putting in lots of zoas, xenia, star polyps, frogspawn, and Torches. Montipora, Acro, and some plate corals will probably also be making appearances.
<Do investigate all this mixing... Important what goes in what order, size, placement...>
Aquascaping will be laid out so that there are 3 different "coral heads", allowing for swimming room in-between, as well as personal hidey-hole's that are spaced out. Deep sand bed too (I would like a nice blue spotted jawfish or two). Water will be kept turbid by a big pump and a pair of SCWDs, feeding the returns into the tank via flexible hoses to that they can be repositioned at will.
Any problems with the setup so far?
<All sorts of potential ones... but I like the way you think>
For fish... well, I originally wanted a couple of small schools of small fish, but have only been able to discern (thru multiple conflicting sources) that firefish, Chromis, and anthias will school when there are more aggressive fish around, and even then they are no guaranteed to stick together. Do you know of any fish that WILL school? (or at least are most likely to school?)
<Some species are given more to shoaling together... more depending on size of the system, numbers, sexes of individuals than presence of other fish species...>
I've also just become enamored with a friends Blue-Girdled angel.
<Needs more room than this>
He's quite the perky and curious fellow, unlike their usually shy descriptions. He's also a very, very pretty fish. I plan on moving my Flame Angel into the tank, but wonder if the 2 would conflict? (probably depends upon size and temperament, right?)
<You don't have enough space>
I suppose I could introduce the B-G first, then Flame later. Of course, I'm also hoping that the B-G wouldn't pick at the corals, but there's never a guarantee there...
Other fish would be a Yellow Clown Goby, probably a Sailfin Tang or some sort (not big though), and a school of 4 small fish (hence the question above). Probably too large of a number of fish, but I'm thinking that the large sump/refugium space might help offset this.
Any advice would be appreciated.
-Darby
<I'd keep reading. Compile notes re the Systems, Compatibility... Feeding, Selection of the species you're interested in. All you list will not fit in a 90... Bob Fenner>

Re: Fish that school in a marine tank, and Angel compatibility  10/19/07
Thanks Bob.
<Welcome Darby>
You know, it's always a bit saddening when you learn that you won't be able to have the fish you desire. It's so difficult to sift the truth of system and fish compatibility from the various sources, as the majority seem to conflict, or have been copied from each other. I've read in places that Blue-Girdled Angels can be kept in 75gal systems, thrive in 90gal systems, shouldn't be kept in anything smaller than 125gal or 200gal,
<This latter as a minimum IMO>
and that they are shy, timid, energetic, personable, reclusive, aggressive free swimmers, etc. So much of that conflicts that it seems all that can really be done is to plan for the worst case scenario.
I tend to pay much more credence to your site and advice, as its much more conservative (in 2 senses).
<Ah yes... sensu dictu... We have good folks here with much personal and academic experience... level heads, and earnest desire to impart, make known what needs to be made known>
Guess I'll be sticking with fewer smaller fish, rather than a couple of big beauties.
I'll try back later when I have a more definite plan and equipment list.
-Darby
<Real good. Bob Fenner>
 

Juvenile Majestic
Hey Dr. Bob,
Hope all is well. I have two topics in which I need your advice. First: Is possible to have too much calcium in the tank?
(Yes... much more than 450-500 ppm is trouble... diminishing other biominerals uptake and precipitating alkaline reserve...)
My water levels are: nitrate 0, phosphate 0.1, ammonia 0, ph 8.5, alk 1.7, 
(Bingo... this is too low...)
sg1.022, nitrite 0, and calcium is off the chart. 650 ppm is my estimate. I'm not sure why, I do not use supplements only the aquarium salt mix from Coralife. 
(Check your tap water for calcium and some synthetic fresh made up... this has not proved to be a consistent product)
I have a few gobies, a six line wrasse, a majestic angel (2.5in.) and some polyps and leather corals in a 55 gal tank. The animals seem unaffected by it. What can I do to get it right? Or do I need to do anything? 
(You may have to start with another source water, or use another make-model of salt mix... like Instant Ocean...)
Secondly, I purchased a juvenile Majestic angel from Aquacon.com about three weeks ago. I have yet to see him eat any of the prepared foods offered to him. I have tried feeding frozen brine, frozen prawn, this other frozen omnivore formula, and dried pellets from New Life full spectrum marine fish formula. He doesn't look famished and spends his time picking at the green hair algae growing on the life rock and red algae growing in patches on the crushed coral bottom. 
(Thank goodness for the live rock... this is a difficult species to keep and yours is starting at too-small a size... do keep offering it any-everything you can)
I did figure out by catching him picking at an overturned snail on the bottom how I lost 20 snails variety of types) in the last three weeks. I purchased him with the hope that he would not be too destructive with the leathers in my tank and in a couple years move him to a large fish only tank. Any suggestions as to what to feed this beautiful fish? Thanks for all your help.
(Take a read through the Marine Angels, and subgenus Euxiphipops in particular... sections posted on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner)
-Patrick Hynes

Majestic angel
Mr. Fenner,
<Steven Pro here this evening doing my part answering questions as part of the WWM crew.>
I want a majestic angel to put in a 45 gallon live rock fish only. Perhaps with a powder blue tang and a something else small. What are your opinions on that and should I buy juvenile or small adult? And also which fish should be introduced to the tank first? Oh yeah and I was told to get a UV sterilizer for the majestic. Thanks, hope to hear from you soon.
<I cannot recommend either of the fish you mentioned for a 45. The fish are too delicate/challenging and the tank is way to small for them. -Steven Pro>

Navarchus Angel
Greetings fish guru,
<<and greetings to you.>>
I know this is probably a no no in your book but it isn't a mistake on my part but an adoption. I care for a 200gal tank for a doctor and all of a sudden I come in to do my weekly checks and exchanges and I notice a different fish in his tank. By god this idiot of a doctor put a $100 Navarchus angel in with his tank without telling me or asking if it was a good choice. Wouldn't seem bad except that there was already a 9" Imperator in the tank who had for all I know wailed on him all night. The poor angel was in the corner cowering and if he moved and inch got it big time from the much larger imperator. I scolded the doctor massively and even threatened to not take care of his tank any more (which was really a lie because this man would kill everything if I did this) but anyway he ends up giving this fish directly to me (which I wasn't all together mad about just because there is no way I can just go out and buy a fish this pricey). But the question is, he is about 3 to 4" in length and except for the ripped fins and a few spots were he took it to the body he actually is in fairly decent condition for a fish that you say isn't very well collected. <<Well, historically, these are usually caught with cyanide. Certainly not true for every single one that makes it into the US, but I've seen a great many Navarchus angels who just aren't with it when they arrive at the LFS.>> Very deep dark colors and is just a gorgeous fish and he even is picking at my live rock so I know he is interested in eating. <<This is certainly a good sign, but these are also very shy and very sensitive to tank conditions. You are not over the hump yet.>> Would a good starter food be live brine shrimp or should I start right in with trying to get him to eat frozen squid, mega marine, mega marine algae, formula foods, etc....? <<I'm a big fan of trying everything you've got. One thing you should know about the Navarchus is their diet is more akin to a Centropyge - they eat a lot of vegetable matter. Make sure you keep some in the well-mixed diet. As for the brine shrimp - I really can't stand the stuff, use Mysis shrimp - my Navarchus loves the stuff.>> I keep a algae clip in there constant ly but this is because I have a flame angel in my tank who actually isn't pestering him at all. I thought he would, he is how ever very timid of this new fish and I know eventually the Navarchus will probably go after him, and this is why another question is what would be the minimum size tank for this Navarchus's maximum size (see how much I have taken to this fish in just 2 days, I am already looking at getting a bigger tank just for him)? He is in a 72gal bow front right now which is no were near enough for sure. <<This will work for a while... again, these fish appreciate good water quality, and the larger the system, the easier this is to accomplish. I would say... as large as you can afford.>> Well, any answers you can give would be great. Any extra tips would be good too. <<Yeah... lots of hiding places, these are very shy fish. Being able to hide will go a long way to reducing stress on the fish.>> I have raised Imperators, Korans, and blue faced angels before and kept them very healthy, will he be about the same of a challenge as these species? <<About the same - the real big challenge with these is getting a good one in the first place. Your previous experience with other angels will prove invaluable.>> Thanks.
John (Fin) 
<<Cheers, J -- >>

The Majestic (Angel)
Hello Crew and Scott!
<Scott here!>
Hate to bother you again, but I need some more guidance on fish husbandry.  My 55 gal. tank has pretty much completed cycling (it is has been up since 12/15/02 - ammonia .0, nitrites .0 and nitrates less than .10, ph is 8.1 salinity .21 and 1/2 and temp is 76 degrees) and I went to my LFS with my water parameters and ended up getting the fish that they recommended (over a powder-blue tang which is what I really wanted - they said l could add the tang later, after the water quality is more established) -  a 2 inch Majestic or Blue-girdled Angel.  I was very excited as this (of course) is one extremely beautiful fish, but after getting him home I read CMA (the fish bible) and Bob says this fish is not for a beginner (which is me) and even experienced aquarists have difficulty in keeping them in captivity.  CMA states that they will not feed readily and will slowly starve to death.  
<Well, this is true in the majority of cases; however, if this fish has been collected properly, and acclimated well, it can and will thrive for many years (there are longevity records of this fish living more than 20 years in captivity!). High water quality, adequate space, and careful feeding are of supreme importance in maintaining this fish>
So far I have seen him eat everything I offer to him and he seems rather happy.  I am worried though that this fish is not one that I should have due to my inexperience and the difficult level of care?
<Well, I'm somewhat amazed that they recommended this fish to you, assuming that they knew that you were a novice. However, rather than "scold" yourself, let's make sure that he's given the best possible care!>
So far my LFS has not done me wrong and they are one of the most reputable saltwater fish stores in Chicago, but, should I have this fish?  They said it would not grow to a large size in my tank so it should be ok...?
<Wow- that's just incredibly bad advice that they gave you! This fish can and will reach up to a foot in length. And, he really will need a much larger tank in a year or two to live a long, happy life. You'll probably need to be thinking of a 100-150 gallon tank as a minimum...>
He is fed some dried seaweed on a clip every day when I get home from work (he tears it apart and then goes after the little stray pieces) and frozen angelfish formula (sponge) manufactured by Ocean Nutrition that I soak in Selcon every night.  Also, I feed everyone else (two percula clowns, one orchid Dottyback and a flame hawkfish) Spirulina flakes (among other things) which the angel comes up to the surface to nab - is that enough?
<Sounds like good food that you're offering! However, you may want to add some other foods, like Mysis and krill to round out his diet.>
And another question - I have wanted to add some live rock to my tank, but my LFS said no at this point?  They advised that live rock would not be a good filter system (currently running an Eheim canister filter and a Bak Pak 2 with 50 lbs of fine sand) for my particular tank.  Is that right?  I thought LR would keep everything a bit more balanced, but then again I don't know very much.... Once again your wetweb wisdom would be greatly appreciated by both me and my aquatic friends! Christy
<Wow- I wonder why they discounted the use of live rock in your tank. It's a wonderful natural filter, and does help provide some extra foraging for your fish as well. I'm glad that you have a protein skimmer going. Make sure that it cranks out at least a couple of cups of dark, yucky skimmate per week, and be sure to keep in clean (try to clean it at least once a week, possibly more if you can). Be sure to employ a schedule of regular water changes...In this tank, 5% water changes twice a week would be optimal, IMO. Be sure to clean and replace the mechanical and chemical filter media within the Eheim. I'd also refrain from adding more fishes to this system. I think that you've reached the limit for your fish load. Even though the Majestic may have not been the best fish for this tank, you can still provide him a terrific home. Seriously consider a much larger tank in the near future- it will really help provide a more appropriate long-term home for this fish. I love Majestic Angels- they're awesome fishes, and will provide you with years of enjoyment if you provide them with the high level of care that they deserve. Just keep up the great husbandry procedures and you'll be successful! Good luck! Feel free to contact me again any time, okay! Regards, Scott F>

The Majestic (Angel)
Dear sir,
<Hi there! No "sir", just Scott F. here today!>
I would like to know that I have a tank with the size of 30 inches in length, 28 inches in height and 20 inches in breath. I have a few live rocks and a few dead corals. I'm  Using an Eheim 2213 external filter and a power head with a trickle filter, and also a under gravel filter. Protein skimmer is on the way in a day or two. I Just set up my tank 12 days ago but used old water and gravel (50 percent) and new water and gravel 50 percent. Nitrites are good but ph is between 7.7 to 8.0
<Do keep an eye on this. It's not too bad, but it is on the lower end of "normal". Perform regular water changes with high quality source water, and use one of the many buffer products available for this purpose.>
I have two small clowns about 2 inches and one majestic angelfish about 4 1/2 inches to 5 inches. Is it a big enough tank for them I just plan to add one or two fishes one about 4 inches and one about 2 inches.
<Well, the Majestic Angelfish can reach 8-10 inches in length. I'd really consider the ultimate size of this fish, and be prepared to move him to larger quarters soon.>
In the next few months (max 7 months) I plan to increase my tank to about 48 inches,28 inches in height and 20 inches in breath is that ok?
<Much better, but I honestly think that you'll need to provide this fish with a tank that is at least 100-150 US gallons (and at least 60 to 72 inches in length) for the long-term maintenance and health for this fish.>
Please let me know. What is the best food I can give the angelfish ? He has been eating from day one and eats chopped prawns, clams, spinach and also marine pellets. What vitamins are good for him.
<The items that you mentioned are quite good, with the exception of the spinach. I'd try to provide vegetable matter of marine origin, such as sushi Nori, macroalgae, like Gracilaria, or commercial foods containing Spirulina. Frozen Mysis shrimp are also a great dietary item for this fish. If you want, you can enrich these foods with products such as Selcon, which provides added lipids and HUFA's, and vitamin supplements, such as Vita Chem. I have used both of these products for years with good results>
And one last thing is that how long can angels live in captivity if kept well. Thanks,  Mustu
<Well, Mustu, I have read accounts of this fish living up to 20 years or more in captivity if well cared for! It's truly a beautiful fish, so just adopt a long-term view with this fish, and keep providing a stable, consistent environment and the fish will enjoy a long, happy life in your care. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Pomacanthus Euxiphipops navarchus
When a fish, such as the navarchus angel, is listed at a maximum length of 10", does that include fish in an aquarium?
<Yes, and I have read they get closer to 12in.>
I have heard conflicting reports of fish not reaching full size in a closed system.
<Many will stunt do to poor, or less than optimal water quality.>
I'm wondering about a navarchus angel in a 75g reef tank.
<I would not put this Angel in anything less than 100g, check out the link below for some info on these Fish. -Gage
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/euxiphipops.htm >