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FAQs on Marine Water Quality involving Phosphates, Sources
Related Articles:
Phosphates in Marine Aquarium Systems by Marco Lichtenberger,
Phosphates in Carbon; An analysis of the phosphate content of
activated Carbon by Steven Pro,
Ammonia, Nitrates,
Nitrites, Silicates, Marine
Chemical Filtrants,
Related FAQs: Phosphates 1,
Phosphates 2, & FAQs on Phosphate:
Importance, Science,
Measure, Control,
Chemical Filtrants,
Troubleshooting/Fixing, &
Nitrates, Nitrites, Ammonia,
Silicates, Avoiding Algae
Problems in Marine System,
Nutrient Control and Export,
Algae Control,
Marine Maintenance, Alkalinity, Chemical
Filtrants, |
Mmm, some source water, live and prepared foods, substrates, decor
items, some carbons, salt mixes and supplements... living
"things"... can all be sources of phosphate... Oh, volcanoes too.
Mmm, and some HPO4 is necessary for all life |
Phosphate – 09/26/09
Hello Crew,
<Hi Becky.>
I've had a FOWLR tank for 5+ years. It has always has high PO4 and NO3.
I just started using RO/DI water about two months ago. I have changed
the tank water a few times over by now. It's a 155g. The NO3 is the
lowest it's ever been at 20ppm. The PO4 is reading 1 on the Salifert
test. It used to be greater than 5! Anyways, my question is, could is be
possible that my live rock has "absorbed" a high level of PO4 from being
exposed to it for such a long period of time at such a high level?
<Yes, live rock and substrate now might contain inorganic and organic
phosphate compounds that can in part be brought back into solution by
biochemical activity. You may want to export the phosphates with time by
various means. Please also see
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_3/phosphates.htm .>
Thanks, -Becky
<Cheer. Marco.>
Phosphate & Stocking question: Phosphate\nutrient\algae
control and stocking SW 8/30/3009
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hi Jan.>
As always, thank you for your great site. Over the 4 years that we have
had our reef tank your help and advice has been invaluable!
<Thank you for the kind words.>
Our tank setup is as follows:
- 75 G Oceanic reef ready bow front with a 20 G Eco Systems refugium,
about 80 lbs. of live rock.
- Water quality: 77.5 degrees F, 1.025 SG, 8.3 pH, 5 ppm Nitrate, 0 ppm
Ammonia & Nitrite, 420 ppm Ca, 1470 ppm Mg, 7.0 dKH and 1 ppm PO4.
<High phosphate, but you already knew that...:) >
- 15% water change every Friday using RO/DI water with 0 ppm readings on
the meter.
- 3 feedings per day with a mixture of liquid, frozen & dry foods.
<Ding! we have a winner.>
- Livestock: 2 clownfish (A. ocellaris), mated and spawning
1 Yellow Tang (Z. flavescens)
3 Blue-Green Chromis (Chromis viridis)
3 Peppermint Shrimp (L. wurdemanni)
2 Cleaner Shrimp (L. amboinensis)
2 Fire Cleaner Shrimp (L. debelius)
5 blue legged hermit crabs
Various corals.
<A reasonably stocked tank.>
I have two areas where I need your advice (without which, I am reluctant
to do anything in this tank).
<Fair enough.>
1. High phosphate level. Due to ???.
I'm getting a PO4 reading of 1 ppm (confirmed with 2 different test
kits) which I understand to be very high. I am experiencing some hair
algae growth and CBA (CBA mainly in the refugium). I use RO/DI water
(which I have tested a 0 ppm PO4) and I have tested the new salt water
before the water change at 0 ppm PO4. The substrate is about 2 to 3
inches deep.
All of the corals are healthy and growing. I do not now where the PO4 is
coming from (the substrate?) or how big a problem this is. So, I'm
confused and could use some advice.
<Two possible causes - 1st, how much are you skimming out of this tank?
Your skimmer could be undersized. 2nd: Three feedings a day is
excessive, especially with liquid foods - those should be used no more
than once or twice a week.
we tend to overfeed these because it is a liquid.>
2. Stocking question. Should we add a "Lawnmower" Blenny (S. Fasciatus),
or not.
<I wouldn't, you are reasonably stocked now, adding anything else will
be pushing the limits.>
Recently, after 3 years of healthy living, our Mandarinfish (Synchiropus
splendidus) died. We intend to replace him with another Mandarinfish.
<Do give the pod population time to replenish itself before adding
another.
75 gallons is on the edge of being too small for a Mandarin. They need a
large tank with a healthy pod population.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandfdgfaqs.htm >
We would also like to add a "Lawnmower" Blenny (S. Fasciatus) but have
some concerns. In researching this fish I understand that they can be
quite territorial, even belligerent.
<Yes they can: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/blencompfaqs.htm >
Given that we are going to have a Mandarinfish and that our clownfish
have taken up residence in a Zoanthid coral on the bottom, right corner
of the tank, should we add the Blenny? The thought of a bullying Blenny
bothering the clownfish in their little home is untenable. But we need
an algae eater and I love the way these crazy looking "Lawnmower"
Blennies look.
<You already have a voracious algae eater in the Yellow Tang. Between
phosphate control. removing any that is in danger of covering\damaging
any corals, and the tang, the hair algae will quickly be under control.
Adding a phosphate reactor or just using some Polyfilters can help speed
the process up.>
Thanks for your thoughts!!
<My pleasure.>
Jan
<MikeV>
Re: Phosphate & Stocking question: Phosphate\nutrient\algae
control and stocking SW 8/30/3009
Hi Mike,
<Hi Jan.>
Thanks so much for your quick response! However, I have a couple of
follow up questions.
<Sure.>
1. Are you saying that the PO4 is in the food or that we're putting too
much
food in the tank, or both?
<Both>
The liquid foods we use are made by Reef Nutrition.
<A good brand.>
We use their Phyto-Feast, Oyster Feast & Arcti-Pods. The first two are
for the corals. The frozen foods are made by Bio-Pure and we vary the
types between feedings. Also, it was my understanding that 3 light
feedings per day was ideal. Wrong? If so, what would you recommend?
<Unless you have a fish with a very particular diet, once or twice a day
is fine. The fish will graze the rest of the day.>
By the way, the skimmer that we use is the one that came with the
Eco-Systems refugium that was specified for this size tank, so I hope
that's not undersized.
<Should be fine - are yo getting a lot of skimmate?>
2. Regarding the stocking question, if we decided not to replace the
Mandarinfish, would the Lawnmower Blenny be OK? Our Tang, while it does
peck at the rock, couldn't be described as a voracious algae eater (at
this my wife says maybe because we're overfeeding!).
<Perhaps - tangs love hair algae - at least mine did.>
There seems to be plenty of algae on the rock (not hair algae!). My
initial concern about adding this fish was potential aggression towards
the clownfish. Or is six fish enough
for a 75G tank?
<6 is about the limit for a 75.>
Once again, thanks for all of your help!!
<My pleasure.>
Jan
<MikeV>
Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!? 8/24/09
Greetings to my favorite people at WWM!
<Hello to you Jamie>
Interesting observation that I like to share with you. I currently have
three tanks. Their parameters are all very similar as I use the same RO
water mixed with Coralife Reef Salt and I perform a 15% water change on
them every week. There are only TWO differences (Okay, I'm painting with
really broad strokes!) - they are the inhabitants and the presence or
not of CARBON in the filtration system.
<Mmm... often there are other more subtle diff.s, but let's see...>
Tank 1: Carbon; Green Spotted Mandarin Goby, Barnacle Blenny, Eyelash
Blenny, Yasha Hase Goby, Pistol Shrimp, Peppermint Shrimp, Skunk Cleaner
Shrimp plus Hermit Crabs.
Tank 2: NO Carbon; Flame Angel, Bicolor Blenny, Black Percula Clown plus
Hermit Crabs.
Tank 3: Carbon; Rainbow Fairy Wrasse, Flame Hawk Fish, 2 Pajama
Cardinals, Lawnmower Blenny, Pink Spotted Watchman Goby plus Hermit
Crabs.
Tank 1 and 3 have been infested with hair algae over the past 4 months.
Tank 2 have consistently been without hair algae or slime algae, not
even a hint!
All tanks have been set up for more than one year and I do the same
routine for all three tanks, feeding in the same fashion. Tank 2 is the
"cleanest", absolutely no signs of hair algae and the tank has a general
clean
appearance - minimal detritus on rocks and macro algae where the other
two sometimes get that dirty, ash covered look and lots of stuff to blow
off during my weekly water changes.
<Ahhh!>
For several weeks, I was thinking that maybe the carbon was leaking
something back to the tank to encourage algae growth, but I renew them
with fresh carbon every two weeks, so maybe just the presence of
carbon... Then today I did an experiment during my weekly water change.
I took a green hair algae and red slime algae covered water return from
Tank 1 and swapped it with the coralline covered one from Tank 2. Within
five hours, that return is cleared of all green hair and red slime
algae! Yippi! Well, now, I'm guessing that one of the inhabitants in
Tank 2 is having a feast eating this stuff, I just can't decide if it is
the Flame Angel or the Bicolor Blenny.
<Could be both, either>
My bet is the Bicolor Blenny but the Flame Angel is the one showing most
interest. As I'm writing this, I placed a piece of hair algae covered
Zoanthid in the front...I want to watch nature in action, and so far,
the
Flame Angel is the one showing interest.
Thank you, each and every one on the WWM team, for creating this site
that helps all of us fish lovers to not only learn about the wonderful
creatures that we share our earth with, but also encouraging sound
stewardship to these wonderful creatures!
Jamie Barclay
<May, might I suggest an experiment with the carbon? Do soak some bit, a
tablespoon or so, in a jar of your RO water for a day or two and test
for soluble Phosphate... Some "brands" do leach this often rate-limiting
noisome algae nutrient. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!? 8/24/09
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I will definitely do this carbon experiment and
keep you updated!
<Thank you Jamie>
I checked my made up water parameters yesterday for phosphate (0),
<Can get "sucked up" by fast growing algae in short order>
nitrite (0), and pH (8.0) prior to using it as I thought maybe my
drinking water RO system's filters need changing.
<Perhaps... the pH should definitely be lower...>
The piece of green hair algae covered Zoanthid I placed in Tank 2 is 40%
"cleaner" this morning but I think that who ever is eating it is having
a hard time pulling the hair algae off as the small piece of rock will
move
which-ever direction.
Thank you all, again!
Cheerios!
Jamie
<Pip pip! BobF>
Re: Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!? 8/28/09
Hello Team at WWM!
<Hi there Jamie!>
Hope all is going well for you!
An update. I've soaked some charcoal in my fresh made up water for 48
hours and checked the phosphate level - it is 0.
<I see; thanks>
So, at least I know that my salt is not leaching phosphate into the
tank.
<Mmm, the salt mix, synthetic actually may be a/the source here. I would
test it as well>
Now, the piece of algae covered Zoanthid I placed in the tank still has
green hair algae on it, it is maybe
50% gone now. Humm, this sort of throws things off a bit on my theory.
I've glued that piece of Zoanthid onto one of the largest rocks in that
tank...I just hope that I didn't introduce hair algae in there!!![?]
<Some such material comes/goes in every bit of water... via spores in
the air if nothing else... It's the conditions that need to be
monitored, controlled>
I will keep observing my tank parameters and fish behaviors and keep you
updated!
Thanks so much!
Jamie
<Thank you. BobF>
Should I rinse frozen food to remove phosphates? 8/2/09
<Hi Jim, Jessy here>
I'm hoping you can help resolve what has become a HUGE disagreement
between my wife and I. We have two tanks: one 65 gallon that houses our
seahorses, that we've had for about three years, and one 210 gallon
fairly new reef tank with numerous fish (9 chromis, 2 clownfish, 1 flame
Hawkfish, 1 yellow tang, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 rusty angel, and 1
Banggai cardinal) established about 3 months ago. The seahorse tank has
a chronic massive problem with nuisance hair algae. I very much want to
avoid having this same problem with the reef tank. Both tanks are
regularly fed various frozen foods:
San Francisco Bay brand Marine Cuisine, Spirulina- and Omega3-enriched
brine shrimp, and various brands of frozen mysis. The fundamental
question that is the basis of our disagreement is whether or not it is
important and beneficial to rinse these frozen foods after thawing them.
As the person who has to clean the algae from the glass, rockwork, and
every other surface of the seahorse tank, and the person who does all of
the testing for nitrates and phosphates, and regularly replaces the
phosphate adsorption media, I maintain that it is important to rinse the
thawed frozen food in order to remove as much phosphate as possible
before feeding the fish and seahorses. As the person who regularly feeds
the fish and seahorses, my wife maintains that the "juice" from the
frozen food contains important nutrients, and that rinsing the thawed
food would remove essential nutrition that was specifically added by the
manufacturer for the benefit of the fishes and other filter-feeding
creatures in the tanks. We recently asked the local "expert" at our LFS,
who said he personally doesn't rinse these types of frozen foods,
because it helps feed the filter feeders. I'm hoping that you can help
settle this disagreement we're having. I've been unable to get my wife
to take the time to actually read the numerous sources I've located
online, all of which state the importance of rinsing thawed frozen foods
to remove phosphates. What does wetwebmedia.com have to say on this
issue? To clarify: not asking for marital advice, just whether to rinse
or not to rinse!
Thanks in advance,
<Absolutely yes, you should be rinsing your frozen food. You can do
something as simple as putting it in a brine shrimp net and holding it
under cold tap water to thaw and rinse it at the same time. The things
that
you are rinsing off are mostly the binding agents for the frozen food...
and yes it can lead to phosphate problems. Your filter feeders will
benefit much more from a dose of phytoplankton or Cyclopeeze than they
will from the little particles found in that frozen mush. I'm a huge
proponent of PE Mysis, (who also suggest to rinse their product) and I
noticed that a lot of the pieces and parts that get rinsed off are the
lighter scrap, like tails and legs. When added to the tank, none of the
fish even attempt to eat those pieces, passing them by for the meaty
portions. I said all that to say, that by not rinsing you're putting
unnecessary binding agents in your tank and particles of "food" that are
just going to go unused and add to a high nutrient problem. By the way,
with the hair algae the best way to combat it is to remove it with your
fingers (yes elbow grease is
unavoidable) and I've always had success with large turbo snails. Every
time you walk past the tank and they are not eating a patch, just pick
them up and plop them on top of it. With continued water quality
monitoring and a little bit of time, every hair algae problem treated
that way has been solved for me. Now Bryopsis, is a whole other ball of
wax. Make sure you're identifying it correctly. Hope that helps. Jessy>
Re: No question just thanks... Follow on... Chalk as base rock –
05/27/08
Hi crew
<Hello Garry.>
Sorry just sent an
Email to Bob and somebody has just asked me a question which I have
no answer for, and I wondered if you guys could come up with an
answer.
<Sure.>
Local to where I live we have cliffs of Chalk
rock (just like the White Cliffs of Dover)
<Nice, I’m a
geologist.>
being that they are 99.97 to 99.99% pure very soft
(for rock anyway) Calcium Carbonate, would it be possible to use
this as a base rock for a Reef aquarium.
<I would not do that.
These rocks (if comparable to Dover) consist of the skeletons of
green algae and to a minor extent of foraminifera, ostracods and
some molluscs. Whenever sedimentation stopped due to various reasons
the sediment layers were in part encrusted with phosphate minerals
(the natural way of removing phosphates from the water), which while
being pretty much dissoluble in water can easily be dissolved with
the help of the life in a reef tank. Phosphates inhibit the growth
of the corals’ skeletal elements, obviously stony corals are more
sensitive. Even if phosphate composes only 0.01-0.03% of the rock
(while possible, these numbers seem low to me) and 10 kg (about 20
pounds) are used you’ll have a phosphate reservoir of a little less
than 1-3 grams. Depending on the specific solution kinetics in your
tank this may inhibit stony coral growth. This problem occurs with a
lot of calcareous rocks used as base rock.>
From watching the
effects of the local sea water on the rock pools there is always a
degree of erosion and solubility (the water has a slightly milky
look) and if this was filtered out would the effect of this rock be
beneficial upon pH, calcium content etc. I have done some research
into this type of limestone and it is very porous with millions of
channels holes etc all the way through it so from the point of view
of bacterial "infestation" it seems an ideal base rock, especially
as it can be obtained in a very clean non polluted form Anyway your
thoughts etc would be appreciated. Garry (in the UK).
<In my
opinion and experience no rock compares to the real thing re
denitrification: live rock. Maybe if put into natural tropical water
other porous rocks like the ones you consider might develop similar
characteristics, but it will take months at least and is rather
unlikely to happen in an aquarium to the same extent it can happen
in nature. If you still wish to use the chalk be prepared to also
use some phosphate adsorbing media in the future. Cheers, Marco.>
Re: No question just thanks... Follow on
5/27/2008
Hi Marco
<Hello Garry.>
Thank you for your reply (it's nice
to meet another ologist - I'm an Ecologist ). Your reply makes sense
to me, however, the percentages of Calcium Carbonate are correct
(please read Ecology of the English Chalk by C.J.Smith pub: Academic
Press Inc. (American publication) pages 1-17). According to this
book and several others the composition of English Chalk is Calcium
Carbonate 97.89%
<I can agree with that. The last mail spoke of
99.97-99.99, which makes a difference with regard to phosphates.>
Magnesium Carbonate 0.75% Silica 0,65% Calcium Phosphate 0.22%
<My original calculation was for only 0.01-0.03%. So with this more
exact number 10 kg (about 20 pounds) of chalk will introduce a
little less than 20 g of phosphates into the system! A concentration
of only 0.3 mg/litre, which can easily be reached with this rock and
a little time, can seriously inhibit stony coral growth.>
Iron
oxides 0.14% Water (combined) 0.35% Work done by Dr N.Walsh (sorry
not sure when or where published) showed English Chalks to have a
purity of between 96.77% and 99.09%. But hey I'm getting pedantic
here.
<You are not being pedantic at all, these numbers are very
useful and as you see one digit here and there makes quite a
difference. It’s ten times the amount of Phosphates, that’s not
pedantic.>
I agree that the only real rock suitable for Reef
aquaria use is or should be Live Rock but we pay a lot for a very
little here in the UK (try fuel at over $12 a gallon) and I guess we
have to try and spread our costs whilst still providing the absolute
best conditions for whatever we keep in those little (or not so
little) glass or acrylic boxes in our homes.
<I totally agree
with you here (I’m in Germany and our gasoline and live rock prices
are practically the same as in Britain. I used various types of rock
as base rock, too, but often ended with serious phosphate problems
when growing stony corals and sensitive soft corals. Those problems
had to be addressed with phosphate adsorbing media and water
changes, which also cost some money and should to be considered. For
fish only tanks it does not matter too much, just less
denitrification. For coral tanks I often use "second hand live rock"
from well running systems with low phosphate concentrations as a
cheap alternative when some hobbyist is giving up due to whatever
reason, it typically costs about 1/5 - 1/3 of the commercially sold
rock and often has already some soft coral growth.>
Your comments
have been noted and I will pass them on. Cheers Garry.
<Happy
reefing! Marco.>
Re: No question just thanks... Follow on... Chalk as base rock III –
05/27/08
Hi
Marco
<Hello Garry.>
Well, that will annoy my friend who
thought he had a cheaper alternative to second hand base rock (he
has a garden full of it with a small cliff (the garden was part of
an old quarry) I will pass your comments on and await the results of
his deliberations, no doubt he will go the live rock route but I
think he is aggrieved at the cost. Personally I would pay whatever I
had to get the results I would want but this is an expensive hobby
(lifestyle?!) and for some the price can be just too much.
<I
totally agree with the above.>
Can I say that if you are German
by birth, your English is very very good,
<Thank you very much,
I’m trying.>
and I appreciate your time and energies confirming
what I knew but could not convince my friend of. Happy Reefing to
you Garry.
<Cheers, Marco.> |
Rock Leaching Phosphate, Is It Harmful To Fish?...And...After 8-Weeks
Fallow, Will My Ich Return? – 01/12/08
Hey Eric!
<<Hey Don!>>
Hope all is well with you.
<<Not so bad… Currently devoting most all
my free-time to a very large renovation/remodeling project…can’t say I
won’t be happy when it’s done>>
I have a question about live rock and
phosphates.
<<Okay>>
I bought some base rock cheap, covered in
coralline algae, and I know it's been in the tank for over a month being
kept with fish and other animals but they told me that I wouldn't want
it cause it leeches phosphates.
<<And yet you bought it anyway
[grin]>>
They told me it was cured so I took it and put it in
quarantine and I haven't gotten any readings of phosphates.
<<Very
good>>
Would the rock after being cured be o.k. to put in the main
tank or does certain rock always leech phosphate?
<<Most any rock can
be a source of soluble Phosphate…but your tests seem to bear out that
this rock will be fine>>
Also do phosphates kill fish?
<<Hmm, I
suppose there’s a limit where it could. But in my experience with
systems with very high Phosphate levels the fish did not deem bothered
directly>>
I never had a problem with it and tried to read as much as
possible but there were no FAQs that I could find about it.
<<Mmm…a
“quick” search turns up nothing specific to this for me either. If I am
off track/if more need be stated, I trust Bob will interject>>
I
finally put the fish back in the 210 after 8 week quarantine.
<<In
regards to your Ich issue, yes…excellent>>
What are the chances of
the main tank and fish being 100% cured because after this live rock is
done I was thinking of Hippo Tang to put in the quarantine but if it's
not likely 100% then I'll probably not bother with tangs.
<<The
eight-week quarantine/fallow period will go far towards achieving an
“Ich-free” environment…for a time. But as I think I have mentioned
before… This protozoan pest is so “easily” introduced, even from
non-organic and non-fish sources (e.g.- live rock, inverts/corals…even
from using a net from another tank) that it is not realistic to expect
to “never” see it crop up again. Thus the importance to continue with
proper quarantine, proper stocking levels/environmental conditions,
biological controls (e.g. - cleaner shrimp/gobies), et al. With these
considerations, I see no reason to “stay away” from tangs…though I might
consider a different specimen from the large and very “twitchy/nervous”
species you have selected…perhaps Acanthurus japonicus…or one of the
commonly available Ctenochaetus species>>
I really don't want to
break down a 210 tank again!
<<I’ll bet!>>
Thanks again.
<<Always welcome>>
Any chance of you going to MACNA?
<<Indeed…have
already made reservations and payment to attend>>
I was thinking of
going to Atlanta in September to go.
<<Perhaps I will see you there>>
Talk to you soon.
Don V.
<<Cheers mate. EricR>>
R2: High pH And Hair Algae – 11/17/07
Hi there again!
<<Hello
Kerstin>>
Well, I hope we're making progress on her tank...I want to
keep you updated, and I want to ask some questions as well.
<<Cool…okay>>
I think I may have figured out where the phosphates
come from - tell me if you think I might be right.
<<Alrighty>>
I
have made several batches of coral/reef food, using Eric Bornemann's
recipe as a base. Included with the fresh seafood and ground up flake
food and other assorted stuff are also frozen Mysis shrimps, daphnia,
etc...all aquarium packs.
<<Okay>>
If I am supposed to rinse them
before feeding them on an individual cube basis to get rid of the
packaged water (I read it's a good source of phosphates), and I did not
even thaw them before integrating them into the new mixture, then could
that be the source of the phosphates?
<<Is probable, yes>>
Just a
thought, because I can't see where else they might come from.
<<Let’s
test and see to be sure, shall we? Thaw a chunk of the food preparation
in a small container of tank water (just like you do when you feed) and
then test that water for Phosphate. If there’s a chance a chance the
tank water will skew the test, then test “before and after” adding the
food stuff>>
re the new skimmer - she started running my AquaC
skimmer –
<<Excellent!>>
collected 1/2 of a cup of "guck" the
first night alone...she is absolutely happy that it's pulling this stuff
out.
<<Is helping…that is a certainty>>
Between that, having a
Poly-Filter pad in her little AquaClear filter, and the fact that she
pulled quite a bit of the hair algae wherever she could, we'll see how
her tank does...she really appreciates all the suggestions and is
happier about her tank already.
<<Very good to know>>
Although,
interestingly enough, when she tested her water in the evening after
lights had been on all day (has done 3 5-gallon water changes in the
last week), her pH is still running 8.8 - but it is staying stable, so
is it something to worry about, or will it drop as the skimmer removes
stuff from the water (don't know how that would happen)?
<<The
skimmer is not going to drop her pH…and yes, this reading if accurate is
too high/worrisome. I seem to recall you stated before that you have
validated this reading with more than one brand of test kit…if not
please do so. Else…it is important to find and remedy the source/reason
for this high pH reading (source water is prefiltered, yes?). Do
revalidate the salt mix used…and stop adding any buffers if using these.
And do make sure there isn’t an unusual item/tank decoration that has
been added to the tank that may be leaching/causing this spike in pH>>
Thanks again for all your tremendous help, and we'll let you know what
happens.
<<Happy to assist…please do fix/let me know how things
progress re the pH issue>>
One positive thing
<<Hey…I counted more
than one! [grin]>>
- I gave her a copy of CMA, and am loaning her
fish books - she is going to research more on her new tank inhabitants
once this problem is solved, since she has already decided to return the
lawnmower blenny to the LFS to trade against something else.
<<Very
good…and do lead her here/to this site and teach her how to do keyword
searches using the Google search tool>>
Thanks, and I hope you're
having a lovely weekend,
Kerstin:-)
<<Weekends are “always” good,
mate. Eric Russell>>
Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? – 10/22/07
Hi Guys,
<<Peter>>
I recently bought a 30 gal plastic container from Lowe's. I
started using this to store saltwater mixes for water changes. I have
noticed that when I do phosphate tests on the water in the storage bin
that phosphate levels up to 5 ppm are detected. The water used is from
an RO/DI that gives a TDS reading of 0.00 and when phosphates are
checked directly out of the RO/DI the readings are 0.00ppm. Are the new
storage containers leaching phosphates into the water?
<<If these are
tests on “water only” in the container (no salt mix introduced- ever),
yes, your tests seem to indicate so>>
If so, how do I prevent that or
are there different containers that I should be using?
<<You don’t
state what you bought...but I know many hobbyists who use the
Rubbermaid® containers with no ill effect. Another option is to purchase
vessels made purposely for holding “potable” water...I use a couple
Polyethylene drums purchased from USPlastics.com >>
Thanks,
Peter
<<Regards, EricR>>
Re: Phosphate Leaching In Plastic Storage Vessel? – 10/22/07
Thanks so much for the quick reply.
<<Quite welcome>>
I found a
clear polyethylene drum that I will test under the same conditions.
<<Excellent>>
I believe the container I was using was indeed a
Rubbermaid.
Thanks,
Peter
<<Cheers, EricR>>
Phosphates in Pet Fish Food... 7/12/07
I have a 155 gal
reef tank I have fed my fish only frozen mysis shrimp foods for years
and about two months ago I bought a pellet food to feed with the frozen
foods,
<Good, variety is important with our critters diets.>
the
pellet foods say they have 0.8% phosphorus, can that make phosphate
levels go up I have read that foods other than frozen can do so.
<Many foods have phosphates in them which yet another reason not to
overfeed. If you want to get down to it, rotting food is just another
ammonia/nutrient source. It may also scare a few aquarists to know that
most aquarium foods have some level of copper in them. Again the key
here is not to overfeed, and with frozen foods do not put the defrosting
water into the tank along with the food, rinse with fresh RO water
several times.>
My phosphate levels use to be zero now they read
about 0.25,
<Not overly alarming.>
but I had not checked them for
about four or five months until now.
<If this a reef tank I would
encourage at least bi-weekly testing.>
Should I stop feeding my fish
with pellets or do you think the phosphate levels just go up on there
own,
<All foods are a source of dissolve nutrients, so the question
becomes how much should you be feeding? Only you can answer that
question to suit your tank.>
my tank has been set up for about five
years I have a wet dry filter
<That could be a source of your
nutrient problems too.>
with the skimmer built in for a tank up to
four hundred gal. My tank is not over stocked with fish, my corals are
doing great, but I have read that you want your phosphates to be zero.
Thank you.
<As cliché as this sounds, dilution is the solution to
pollution! Keep up with he water changes and consider testing your
source water for phosphates as well, if you're using an RODI or just RO
filter even it may be time to replace the inserts. Good Luck! Adam J.>
I hope I am wrong about my Lace Rock – 06/29/07
Hey Guys,
<Jim>
I am hoping you will send me off in another direction, but any
help at this point would be great. I have an algae issue (green hair /
filament algae).
I do weekly H20 changes with RO/DI water.
I
also "vacuum, brush and pull" the algae off the rocks 2x a week.
<No
fun...>
I have great flow (20x) I also "brush off rocks to make
sure...(desperate?)
<Maybe>
I also have tested my fresh and salt
mix. All are 0 nitrate and 0 po4.
My tank test 0 nitrate and 0 or
very close on po4.
I took my h20 into LFS to confirm and they did.
I have a refug. and a res. with a protein skimmer.
I have changed my
lights (4 halide 150w 1400k).
I am running with phospholock (sp?
ferric hydroxide?) etc.
I don't "feed" my corals etc.
I only
have 12 small fish in a 265 tank
I am running a protein skimmer and
clean it every other day.
I may not have as many cleaner crew as a
LFS would recommend, but they are breeding and seem to be doing fine.
I have 2 tangs and a lawn mower blenny.
I need to scrub my overflows
daily because the algae is clogging them.
I need to clean my sponge
filter 2x a week because it is clogged with algae.
I may need a
shrink soon....
<Heeeeee! Maybe one with long arms who can help pull
the algae!>
I have a old live rock (that sat out for a year) from my
old tank (50 or so lbs) with 60 that I got when I set this up and about
90 lbs of lace rock which sat in my old tank for 2-3 years as well (and
then out for a year).
<... I see>
I had an algae problem in my old
tank, but it was pieced together and I figured was due to poor set up /
maint.
<Mmm, maybe just one aspect...>
Given all this...Could it
have been the lace rock?
<Yes>
I put a piece in a bit of clean
salt water and it seems to have raised the PO4, but test kits are not
extremely accurate. I am out of other ideas. I hope I am wrong as I have
the whole thing nicely strapped into a PVC frame that looks great and a
bunch of SPS and LPS coral that is thriving when the algae keeps off of
it. I really don't want to have to take it all apart and am not sure how
I would even start doing it. But, I also can't spend 2 nights a week
cleaning up the algae.
<Yikes.... I'd be pulling, replacing>
Any
help would be great. The tank was "fine" for about the first 6 months
but the last have been a real challenge.
Oh and I add purple up
<Oh! I'd abandon this product as well... More trouble than it's
worth...>
to try and get the good pink stuff thriving. Every thing
looks healthy, SPS is spreading and growing, LPS looks good. Soft are
spreading, xenia is the only thing that is not spreading (I am glad).
Again thanks.
<Mmm, well... there are even more countervailing
strategies than the ones you have aptly applied here (refugium,
skimming, chemical filtrants...), but I would remove the Lace rock, quit
the Purple Up... and you should see, realize almost immediate
improvement. Bob Fenner>
Re: I hope I am wrong about my Lace Rock 6/29/07
Thanks Bob.
Does this process make sense?
<Let's see...>
Pull Lace Rock and
stop purple up. See if issue goes away. If it does then Add new Live
Rock to replace Lace Rock?
<I wouldn't wait m'self>
How do I
make sure the LR is fully cured?
<See WWM re:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marinvind1.htm>
I could add a piece at a
time or keep it in a tub with a power head for a while. I know I have a
good bio load in the tank but I am not sure what impact adding 50 - 70
lbs of live rock will have (except to my wallet..)
<One approach>
I have a water making station I could put some live rock in, but it is
only a 35gal tub.
<Big enough...>
Thanks for your support. I look
to your site often.
<I as well... perhaps a bit too often and long!
Cheers, BobF> High Phosphate in RO water 8/12/05
Hello everyone, I'm a newbie to saltwater and I recently set up a 155
gallon reef tank. In this time I've had trouble controlling my
phosphate levels. Here are my specs:
1. 155 gal tank
2. Lightly stocked tank with 1 purple tang, 1 six line wrasse, 1 clown,
1 lawnmower blenny, 2 cleaner shrimps.
3. 2 mushrooms, 2 rocks of
yellow polyps, 1 green star polyp.
4. Two overflow boxes, aqua C
ev-180 skimmer which produces lots of crap daily. I use RO/DI water
weekly and perform a 10 % water change every week. My RO system is from
Coralife-pure-flo.
4.All water parameters are normal except the
phosphate level which is a whopping 1 ppm with the Salifert test!
I
thought for the last three months that the levels were high because I
was feeding too much but I wasn't. Sometimes I would actually skip a
day so my fish could graze on the little hair algae I have in the
tank. I then thought that my test kit was wrong, so I bought a new
Salifert test kit. Anyways, I decided to test my RO/DI water without
salt straight from the tube and the phosphate levels measured 1ppm! I
then checked my TAP water
from my faucet and it tested only 0.1
ppm. I retested all my different waters and the results were the
same. I came to the conclusion that it seems like my unit is leaching
out phosphate, is this possible? The RO/DI unit is very new, I bought
it 5 months ago and according to the instructions, the pre-filter needs
to be changed in a months time and the membrane should last another 6
months. So I still have time for change. Any thoughts? Nilesh <This
is an easy one! Activated carbon is made porous in the manufacturing
process by exposing it to phosphoric acid. If the carbon is not rinsed,
it will leach phosphates in high concentration, much of which will pass
through the RO membrane. If you really want a shock, test the water
coming directly out of the carbon block pre-filter! The simplest option
is to replace the pre-filters with good quality aquarium brand
(something other than Coralife!). Prefilters should be changed every
six months to a year, but the membrane itself should last several
years. Best Regards. AdamC.>
Phosphates in tap water 9/2/06
Hi again,
I've
been trying to get to the bottom of my phosphate problem and have
narrowed it down to my tap water. What is weird is that when tested as
fresh water it tests at about .03 on the Salifert Kit but when mixed
with IO it tests only as traces of PO4 as saltwater. Does this make
sense?
Also, I do use a DI and results are pretty much the same. Do
you think that using Polyfilter or phosphate sponge in one of the DI
chambers would be useful? Thanks for all your help, past and present.
Mordy
Mordy Eisenberg
<<Mordy: If your RO/DI unit is working
properly and you have a TDS meter, you TDS reading should be 000. At
that point, you shouldn't have phosphates. If you have too much
phosphates in your tank, growing Chaetomorpha algae in the sump, can
help. Best of luck, Roy>>
High Phosphate Levels 10/23/06
<Hello Andy>
Hi Ladies
and Gents!
I'm not sure how to classify this email really. It's a
bit of a 'symptom' with a 'problem' with a question for a 'solution'...
I think...
I have a 30g tank with around 60lbs of Fiji Live Rock.
It's about a year old. I have a small internal filter containing wool
only, for mechanical filtration, a couple of MaxiJet powerheads and a
thin (less and an inch) layer of aragonite and crushed coral substrate.
<First question. Are you changing the floss weekly? If not, do so.>
My levels are pretty good on the whole: Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate:
0, pH: 8.3, Salinity: 1.024. I do a 20% water change each week and use
RO water which I have tested for Phosphate. I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef
Salt.
<OK>
My livestock is about 30 Turbo Snails, about 20 - 25
Red Leg Dwarf Hermits, 4 small Feather Dusters and a pair of Clarkii
Clownfish (female is around 3" and the male is around 1.5"). All the
livestock seems active, happy, healthy and feeds well.
<Don't
believe you need 30 Turbo Snails in there, 10 would be more than
enough. Eventually, some of these may die due to starvation, causing
more problems.>
Recently I have had a problem with algae. My lovely
rockwork has grown a thin film of very bright green algae (not the usual
dark green I've seen before) and there are signs of algae on the glass
and the substrate. I have a very high level of Phosphate in the tank
(1ppm!) and I'm struggling to work out where it's come from (me, I
know!)
I have 96w of T5 fluorescent lighting which is one actinic
and one 10000k bulb. These have an 11 hour photo period per day.
<May want to cut that down to 8 hours and see if you have a reduction of
algae growth. If there is indirect lighting (outside light) hitting the
tank, 10 hours isn't necessary with the animals you presently have.>
I realize (through reading on here and books etc) that Phosphate is
caused by - amongst other things - over-feeding and over-supplementing.
I never supplemented much (the occasional 5 - 10 drops of Salifert
All-in-One, Salifert Coral Food for the feather dusters and a couple of
drops (literally) of Salifert Coral Calcium every week or so) but have
now cut that out completely since about 3 weeks ago. I have always done
my water changes religiously but am at a loss how my Phosphate got so
high (I don't use carbon anywhere which I believe CAN leech Phosphate).
<Cheaper brands of carbon are known for this. You may want to try a
Poly Filter in your system. Just hanging it in the tank will help if
you have no filter to use.>
I have tried suspending a filter-sock
with Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos in the tank, but that lowered my pH
overnight (down to 7.9 the following day - even by midday it hadn't
risen!). I then tried Salifert Phosphate Killer in the sock and even
though it didn't lower my pH, it didn't lower the Phosphate either! So
now my levels all look great again, apart from the Phosphate...
<I
like the RowaPhos product myself. Might want to try this.>
I am
planning on doing a 75% water change this weekend - are there any
potential problems with doing that?
<I would do no more than 50%.>
I guess my main question is, what do you think I can do to lower the
Phosphate in my tank? I am very short of space, so a sump or refugium
with Caulerpa is out of the question I'm afraid.
<Just rubberbanding
a hunk of Chaeto to a small piece of live rock in the tank will aid in
phosphate removal.>
My other question is: how much/often should I
feed the Clarkiis? I'm worried about starving them, but am always
careful not to 'overfeed'.
The trouble is, they're so greedy,
they'll just eat and eat.
<Many people eat more than they need
to. A couple of small feeding twice a day is plenty. The clowns should
look full without bulging stomachs. Keep in mind that fish do not have
large stomachs.>
I've heard the usual "as much as they'll take in 5
minutes" but that's so vague it doesn't really help me. I could probably
get half a tub of food in there in that time and they'd scoff it all I
expect. I feed them a mixture of Tetra Prima and the occasional bit of
chopped Mysis! Given that Tetra Prima comes in granule-form, is there a
rough amount of granules I should be feeding? 1ml of granules in a
test-kit-measurer? That's actually quite a lot of granules! Random
question I know, but I'm struggling here!
<Feed sparingly twice
daily. If the fish seem to lose interest in the food, do not feed
anymore. I would put repetitive small amounts in the tank, if they
consume all, add another small amount. Not good to put all the food in
at once with a couple of fish present. I'm not saying to go buy more
fish either, as your tank will become too small for the clowns in the
near future as the clarkii's can attain a length of up to six
inches. When buying food, also look at the phosphate content of the
food. There are dry foods that contain quite a bit of phosphate in
them. You did not mention use of a protein skimmer. Using one will
definitely help your phosphate problem. There are good hang-on models
such as AquaC that are very efficient and trouble free.>
Anyway -
sorry to ramble on - any help/advice would be much appreciated!
Many
thanks!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Andy
Re: Too much MH lighting? 11/26/07
Dear Justin,
<Hello again, George>
Thanks for the fast response.
<No problem,
glad to help>
A quick follow up to my lighting questions.
<Ok>
You got me thinking about phosphates!
I've noticed that slight hair
algae has started, and I'm using mechanical as well as maintenance
measures to control. But I wonder if recent increase in feeding frozen
marine mix and krill mashed up to a bubble coral and some brains, in
addition to the zooplankton and rotifers may be overpowering.
<It
very well could be>
So if you would be so kind, set me straight. How
much invert feeding, for say 200 gal. should I be doing. I use a combo.
of phyto-feast, and sometimes Roti-feast, and Arti-pods. This doesn't
include the meaty bits I mentioned. The instructions say "1-2 teaspoons
per 100 gallons. I think I may have been feeding too much because I was
worried about the bubble.
<How often are you adding the
liquid phyto/zooplankton mixture? I would recommend dosing the tank with
this 2-3 times a week, 2-3 teaspoons total should be enough.>
All
the reading on the site indicates that unless the bubble coral eats
daily, it will starve to death in a year.
<Mmm, I don't believe this
to be the case. 2-3 meaty feedings a week should be fine>
And if so,
is just a small portion for it sufficient.
<Should be>
Any
insight you can provide on control of phosphates, with a focus on the
feeding side of things would be great. Thanks again.
George
<Hope this info helps you out, George. Feel free to drop another line if
you've got further questions! -JustinN>
Re: Too much MH
lighting? 11/26/07
Thanks, Justin. I will scale
feeding down a bit along with lights and let you know what happens.
Regards,
George
<Sounds good, George. Keep us posted, shoot a
line back if you've got anymore questions. We're here to help. -JustinN>
Found where my phosphates are coming from!!!
hi bob <<Actually,
it's JasonC today, how may I help?>>
I have finally found where my
phosphates are coming from.
I have a 130 gallon reef tank lots of
live rock ,good skimmer, a refugium with nice Caulerpa growing I have
very few fish ,and sometimes don't feed for weeks. Why you ask? Because
I had so much hair algae growing I let the fish graze on it. My
phosphates were always around .25mg-l.I have a ro-di unit with new
filters in. I had no idea where the phos. was coming from. Then a friend
told me that his calcium reactor was giving off a large amount of
phosphates from the dissolving aragonite. Does aragonite contain
phosphates I asked myself. Then another friend told me that he used a
product called Aragamilk and that he also saw phos. levels rise. My
conclusion is that aragonite or at lease certain brands release
phosphates. <<That is it... certain brands, but even so... most corals
have some phosphate fixed within their skeletons so that later when they
become gravel, that is released as trace amounts. Not typical that
aragonite should release massive quantities of phosphates.>> So I had a
problem because of an old trick my LFS told me .He said that when you
fill a bucket or a tub with your ro water to pour a bag of aragonite in
the bottom. The ro water comes out at a ph of 6.5 so it will dissolve
the aragonite and voila!!! instant buffered water for water changes or
toping off. <<Not sure I agree with this technique. The process
described is similar to how a calcium reactor works except there's one
thing missing - the CO2; no catalyst to dissolve the aragonite. And
these typically recirculate for days. So... any alkalinity or buffers
obtained from this method would be in small amounts.>> I have been using
this method for a year but not anymore because I tested the water and it
contains .2mg-l of $%?$ PHOSPHATES. I have a very intense lighting
system with good ventilation in the hood, so I top off about 5 gallons a
day so you can imagine the amount of phos I was adding in a week. I also
cheeked if the ro water contained any phosphates and the test was nil.
<<Ah...>> Have you heard of anybody doing this? <<Doing which? Having
problems with leached phosphates - yes.>> did they have problems with
phosphates? <<Not really.>> What do you think about it. <<Well, two
things... I would start by just using straight RO/DI for top-off. If you
want buffers in that water, add baking soda or Seachem Reef Builder.
Then... add some macroalgae to the tank to compete with the hair
algae.>> Would love your feedback.
Richard
<<Cheers, J -- >>
Leaking Phosphate... 3/25/03
Hi Phil<Hey Tony!> I wanted to let
you know what I found out.<Let's have it!> I mixed up some salt water
and tested it for phosphates it tested 0ppm then I broke some of the
fingers off the corals and added them to the mix. 24 hours later I
tested the water it read .6 if I bleach the corals and rinse very well
of course do you think that will help or is there some kind of solution
I can soak them in.<Well if it truly is the corals leaking then bleach
may not solve the problem. Bleach kills living things and can clean
away the dead stuff, but it may just do more harm then good. Head out
to the LFS and grab yourself a small AquaClear filter. Add a PolyFilter
and you are in business. Remember to change the filter often and it
should help with the phosphate.>
THANKS TONY<Hope this helps and good
luck!! Phil> Re: phosphate in my water
I have had a
recent algae bloom in my reef tank and have been searching for a
solution. I have been doing regular water changes, shortened my light
cycle, not overfeeding, changed salt brands, etc. I know that one of the
problems that may be adding to this is the amount of phosphate in the
water. I tested the RO water I use and it contains 1 ppm. Is this my
problem? What is an acceptable level to have in my tank? <This phosphate
is contributing to your algae blooms. When you mix your new salt water
consider adding a poly filter to it and let it sit a few days before you
put it in the tank as this will remove the phosphates. Cody>
Thanks
for the help, I love the site! -Danny Controlling Phosphates
7/23/03
Hi Antony, I need your opinion again.
<always welcome
my friend>
I'm dosing Kalkwasser 2.5 gallons a day in my 250 gallons
FOWLR tank and dosing Seachem Reef Calcium twice a week for coralline
algae growth; in those days I stop dosing Kalk. Doing so my Ca level has
gone from 450 mg up to 470 mg. How can I continue with Kalkwasser
without raising Ca level too much?
<you might ease off of the Sea
Chem calcium for starters if the corallines have been sufficiently
stimulated>
Moreover I've another great problem: my phosphates level
is 1.50mg/l.
<yikes!>
What can you tell me about ROWAPHOS or
Seachem PHOSGUARD? Which is better?
<Sea Chem has a very fine name
brand... but the ROWAPHOS has shown tremendous results>
Can they
solve my phos problem?
<both only treat the symptom (phosphate) and
not the problem. I would not advise using much of either, but instead...
identify where your phosphates are being imported from (source water,
foods, etc) and screen it there first (better prefiltered FW, change of
food, etc). One of the most common mistakes aquarists make which allows
phosphate to accumulate is the thawing of frozen food in water and then
dumping that water into the tank with the meaty food. Its a horrible
habit and one that leads to phosphate accumulation and nuisance algae
growth in general. Always decant the water away... or better yet, thaw
frozen food in the refrigerator without water. The lack of water and the
slow thaw will improve the nutritional value.>
Thanks a lot Best
regards, Lorenzo in Italy
<with kind regards, Anthony> -Fun
with phosphates!-
Hey guys, great site!
I'm having a terrible
time w/phosphates in one of my tanks. Please help!
Set up: 45 gal.
corner tank w/ Penguin 600 power head for extra water flow; standard
CaribSea aragonite sand, 3 in. base
Filtration: Fluval 404 w/
standard foam filters, trays are packed w/ceramic biomedia
60 lbs.
live rock
Small Aqua Clear powerfilter for extra flow, mechanical
filtration, oxygenation
Inhabitants: 2 Brazilian Seahorses
hippocampus reidi
2 emerald crabs, 3 peppermint shrimp, various
hermits, sand sifting star, 2 green lettuce nudibranchs
Parameters:
pH-8.2; NH, NO3-nil; NO4-3ppm; CA-400ppm; Alkalinity-normal; SG-1.022;
temp.-77 F
PO4-3!!! <3 ppm or .3ppm?!>
Water source: 5-stage RO,
with add-on DI cartridge (this was the 1st thing I tested, there is no
PO4 present in the water source)
Background: I have had phosphate
problems w/this tank before. Problem was (I thought) the water source,
hence the elaborate home system I purchased. Got the PO4 levels down to
.15 through very frequent water changes (10% 3 times a week) but now
they're back up. Need to find the source. I'm feeding 1 Hikari Mysis
cube per day, which seems appropriate. Only source I can think of is
dissolved organics. <Make sure you drain the juice in that shrimp. You
may want to seek out Piscine Energetics Mysis as it is a much better
quality shrimp.> Tank is not drilled, so my main question is should I
invest in an over-the-tank protein skimmer? <I would recommend one.>
p.s. I also have a 55 mini-reef that is not experiencing these problems.
<I would wager that the packing water in the food is the source, unless
your phosphate kit is wrong. In the meantime, run plenty of phosphate
removing resin. Good luck! -Kevin> Thankfully PO4 in Frozen
food -An Informal Experiment
>Hi Marina/Bob,
>>Hello
Jorell. Marina today.
>I hope you guys are well...
>>Indeed, and
yourself as well.
>I do not know if you should publish this as it may
be half$$@& job, but, I just read something on the FAQ's just now
talking about draining frozen foods to lower the risk of contaminating
the water. About a couple of years ago, I had a algae bloom in my tank
and was trying to source where the PO4 was coming from (I found out
eventually it was the bio load, duuhhh, missed the obvious). Any way I
started testing various things including the frozen food I had been
feeding my fish by diluting it in a fixed measure of water. While I
know every batch may be different I did this over a few months and
averaged the results so I have some kind of guideline to go by.
>>Interesting, and I like the idea.
>I used to feed my fish a mix of:
1) Hikari - Mysid Shrimp
2) Hikari - Brine Shrimp
3) Sally's
Spirulina enriched Brine Shrimp
4) A mixed frozen pack of Shrimp
Mussel and squid.
I will have to find my book where I have the (brand
name of the Mixed food pack) and figures, but I found that, the Sally's
Brine Shrimp had the highest Po4 content followed by the Hikari Mysid
shrimp and surprisingly the Hikari - Brine Shrimp had very little PO4,
all tests were done with a Salifert test kit.
>>Yes, if you do find
your results it would be interesting to see. Thanks for the
input! Marina
>Regards, Jorell -Frozen food juice, does it
do a body good?-
While reading the daily FAQs this morning, I
came across a response by Kevin to a phosphate question that suggests
draining the juice from the Hikari Mysis shrimp the person is feeding
the fish. <Well, if the incredibly handsome and intelligent Kevin said
it, then you better believe it. ;) > I feed my fish different foods but
one type is Aqua-Yums Mysis shrimp. Is the draining of the juice an
across the board technique or just for Hikari brand foods. <It's always
recommended that you ditch the packing juice.> I had never considered
draining the juice before and was also wondering if this techniques is
supposed to be performed on all foods? <It would be a good idea, but
I've been a non-juice drainer for years and have had no problem. That
said, I don't use Hikari Mysis shrimp. I believe in that question, the
aquarist couldn't figure out where the po4 was coming from, and he had
apparently done everything right except that he fed an entire cube per
day.> My water parameters have always been acceptable NH3 and NO2 0,
NO3 10, ALK 10, Ca 400, pH 8.2, temp 79-80, and salinity 1.023 - 1.024
but I don't test for phosphates or any of the other more specialized
parameters as I just keep fish and a few crabs. <There's nothing toxic
about phosphate to your critters, it's just an algae fuel and a problem
for people with calcium depositing inverts. Have your LFS test your tank
for phosphate, you could be on your way to an algae bloom and not even
know it! -Kevin> Thanks, Ray Mysterious Phosphate Reading
Hi again,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
Thanks a lot
for answering my earlier question about fish stocking. This question has
every professional in my area stumped and I've tried everything and
don't have a clue. My phosphate levels are through the roof (3.0) with
no apparent reason. I have only had the tank(60G) running for 17 days, I
have one Chromis and some crushed coral but nothing else. I have tested
the water supply and my salt mixture and the phosphate is below 0.1. I
had been adding brine shrimp into the Chromis' diet but have stopped
that for a few days now. My supplier suggested cleaning the
filter(fluval404) in case something was blocked in there- it didn't
help, I also cleaned my skimmer. If it is important I had a white film
on the inside of my tank which I cleaned off the best I could (in one of
your questions it said that it might have been caused by a ph buffer).
If it matters I used powdered bacteria, Nitrivec and Amtrite down
(ammonia/nitrite reduction stuff) to prepare the tank. All other tests
are fine (ph is 8.1 and nitrite is undetectable) my supplier did all the
other tests and said none was a problem. Also I tried a 10% water change
last week and 35% this week with no results. This problem is no drama at
the moment (I wasn't planning to put coral or anything in for quite a
while) but my supplier recommends not to put live rock in until I solve
this problem, which I was planning to do. Sorry if this question is a
bit long but I thought it would be better to have the full story. Thanks
heaps for your time - Ryan
<Well, Ryan- phosphate is one of those
things that comes from a variety of sources, among them foods,
additives, and even source water. Relatively new systems have "immature"
nutrient processing and export systems, so nitrates and phosphates
commonly accumulate. This is a fairly high reading, though, so I'm sort
of wondering if your source water contains measurable phosphate
levels...Do check that out, and consider using RO/DI or other purified
water sources. I also am curious if the powdered bacteria culture
contained some culture medium or other food source which may be
contributing to the reading. Still another thought is the substrate
material that you are using...Some grades of crushed coral may have
impurities in them- a long shot, but something to think about. I'd try
to eliminate some of these as sources, and then look at means to control
phosphates, such as continuous use of chemical filtration media, like
activated carbon and/or PolyFilter, or even some of the dedicated
phosphate removing media, like PhosBan. PhosGuard, and Rowaphos. Look
beyond the obvious, and do consider one of the aforementioned media as
an adjunct to your control efforts! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Phosphate in Nori and Kombu? No worries 2/16/04
Hi, I have just
acquired a Scopas Tang, for which I have bought some Nori, and kombu.
My worry is that in feeding these, I will probably be
introducing phosphate into the tank, am I right that these will contain
phosphate?
<no worries at all... nominal indeed. The real problem
with phosphate laced foods is from terrestrial farmed/grown produce like
lettuce/spinach, etc which is grown with heavy doses of phosphate and
nitrate based fertilizers>
Is there something I can do to reduce the
phosphate content of these foods before feeding?
<focus instead on
utilizing or exporting it in the aquarium. Other sources of phosphate
will enter and need addressed anyways. Use of calcium hydroxide is great
for this (precips phosphate)>
Also, can the kombu be boiled to soften
it without destroying nutrients it contains?
<like our/any foods...
it will destroy some/many nutrients. If you must, briefly blanch it
instead>
Also, I bought this stuff at the Asian market, how can I
know it has no added preservatives or other chemicals?
<honest list
of ingredients is the best I/we can hope for>
Finally, do you have
any other suggestions for a balanced diet for a Scopus Tang? At present,
along with the Nori and kombu, it gets the mussel and clam fed to the
other fish.
<having a variety of 6-10 foods of random origin and
processing will likely be fine (FD, Frozen, pellet, fresh). Focus as you
have done on a heavy green component... and do consider growing some
Gracilaria (AKA "Tang Heaven" from IPSF.com) in a refugium. Anthony>
Phosphate, Calcium & Alkalinity
Hello Guys: Could you please try
and help me with a problem that developed suddenly in my aquarium? I
have read the FAQs and want to make sure I am pursuing the proper course
of action. Aquarium is one year old. Tank is 240 gallons with 200 lbs
LR. Sump is 15 gallons with Euro-Reef CS8-3 skimmer which flows into
100 gallon non-lighted refugium with DSB of 8 inches aragonite. I
follow good husbandry schedule with 10% weekly water changes, activated
carbon run in sump continuously and changed monthly.<Sounds like a nice
system.>
I use Salifert test kits (test once per week) yielding the
following range of results: NH4 0.25 ppm, NO2 Undetectable, NO3 2.5 -
5.0 ppm, Ca 380 - 420, Alk 3.0 - 4.0 meq/L and PO4
Undetectable. Electronic pH meter ranges 8.17 -8.28 and electronic
salinity ranges 1.0240 -1.0250. A 4 stage RO unit with Instant Ocean
salt mix is used for make up water. B-Ionic 2 part balanced additive
dispensed over 8 hour period daily and evaporation top-off via reef
filler pump at 1.5 gallons daily with RO water. I am feeding fish once
daily and decanted the frozen food. A "live" commercial brand
phytoplankton was administered 4 times a week. Everything was running
fine. <I am very suspect of an ammonia reading above zero. I would
compare this with another kit. Otherwise, it sounds like all is well.>
I tried a different "live" commercial brand of phytoplankton for one
week and my phosphate increased to 3.0 ppm. My alkalinity increased to
5.71 meq/L and calcium 450 ppm. The pH increased to 8.48. What I am
thinking is that the high phosphate level
has inhibited the
calcification process thus causing the excess amount of calcium and
alkalinity in the water column which in turn is driving up the pH. What
do you think? <Sounds logical, but I wouldn't expect the change to be so
dramatic or fast.>
Could the commercial phytoplankton have caused
such a dramatic increase in phosphate in such a short time period?
<Yes. One brand in particular takes care to was the phyto free of
fertilizers. Other brands may not.>
Does the calcification process
shut down so quickly in response to the elevated phosphate? <This is the
part I am suspect of. Phosphate will slow calcification, and my do so
quickly, but I am suspect of the rapid rise in Ca and Alk.>
I have
done 10% water changes every third day for one week but
the phosphate
level still remains at 3.0 ppm. I stopped the B-Ionic dosing and the
calcium and alkalinity are slowly decreasing. The RO water and Instant
Ocean mixed with RO water both have undetectable phosphate levels. Why
do think the phosphate level in the tank remains so high? Thank you
very much for your help. I am worried about my live stock. Joe
<I
would continue this regime until the phosphate decreases, or consider a
commercial phosphate remover. Seek out Iron based products (red color)
like RowaPhos, Phosban or Salifert and avoid alumina (white color) based
products. Since the introduction of the phosphate seems to be a "one
shot" event and not a chronic problem, you should be able to get it
under control easily. Good luck. AdamC.> Phosphate and
phytoplankton
Hello Adam C:
<< Adam C is out right now, so I'm
jumping in. >>
Thank you for the help. I have added both Rowa-Phos
and a Poly Filter to the sump. In addition, I will continue to do the
10% water changes every third day until the phosphates become
undetectable again and then I will remove the Rowa-Phos and Poly
Filter. In your response, you stated one "live" phytoplankton brand has
good quality control to remove phosphates and nitrates, is this DTs
phytoplankton? << I don't know whom he was referring to, but I think
Mountain Corals and Phycopure are both great as well as DTs. >> DTs was
the brand I was using with no elevation in phosphates. The brand which
caused my phosphates to become elevated was Instant Algae manufactured
by Reed Mariculture in California.
Please let me know what you think.
<< I also like Reed Mariculture and Florida Aqua Farms and I love Brine
Shrimp Direct's Tahitian Blend Algae. >> Thanks again for your insight.
Joe
<< Blundell >> Kent carbon, Phosphates and
algae
Dear Sir's, I have had an algae problem since setting up my
reef tank 8 months ago, mainly hair algae (the usual I know). I think
they call it hair algae because when you get plagued with it you pull
your hair out!<HA!!>
The tank is 250uk gallons and has around
120-130kg of live rock 3x 250watt 14k metal halide lamps around 6 months
old. I use Rowaphos continually. The phosphate measures 0 with the new
high accuracy Deltec test kit. Nitrate also measures 0. I have used Kent
reef carbon since setting up my aquarium. I use instant ocean salt and
have an AquaMedic 1000 calcium reactor set to 6.7ph and about 2 drips
per second effluent. Lots of water flow with 2 Tunze 6100's, all top off
through Kalkwasser stirrer with RO. Water changes, about 7% per week.
Now, my question, sorry to rattle on....<No Problem.>
Just recently I
decided to test the carbon for phosphates against the AquaMedic brand. I
put a few pellets of each make, 1 week old carbon into some RO water.
The Kent carbon went off the scale on the Deltec test kit to around
0.6ppm while the AquaMedic tested around 0.2. I am concerned that this
is fuelling my algae bloom and I am not reading phosphate in the tank as
the algae is utilizing it. What do you think?<It absolutely could be the
situation.> Does this sound like it could be the problem?<Yep!!! Your
testing methods was a good step to take.> Any information will be of a
great help....I looked under the different carbon topics but couldn't
find anything of this nature. Please let me know if you would like
anymore information. Kind regards, Lee
<Lee, There are carbons that
contain phosphate in their molecular structure. Is there any reason why
you are running carbon in your reef tank. If you have a sufficient
protein skimmer then you won't need to use carbon. I would also
recommend testing for silicates. They can cause algae blooms
also. Remove the carbon and physically remove the algae and see what
happens. Good Luck MikeB.>
Phosphate
Hi guys, first
time writing, great site.<Thank you>
I have a reef/fish aquarium
that is about 6 months old. Things have been going pretty well, but I
have lost a couple of corals and the occasional fish. The system is 55
gallons, 100 lbs live rock, eight small fish (2 gobies, 2 Chromis, 2
clowns, lawn mower blenny, six line wrasse) 4 different kinds of shrimp,
two anemones. Corals include a bubble, frog spawn (two kinds), a sun
coral “bunch”, couple of small Acroporas, a medium trumpet, a
small
gorgonian, and the usual assortment of hermit crabs and snails (~25
each). As I mentioned, I have lost a couple of corals, an elegance
(wish I had read your website first) parts of the frog spawn and a
banded shrimp.
The trumpet isn’t looking good either. Fish seem to
be doing fine. I feed the tank blended clams, mussels, shrimp and fish
(all fresh, then frozen, about a ½ teaspoon couple of times a day).<Way
too much food.> I also add Cyclop-eeze <Are you referring to
"Cyclop-eeze? If you are, this is a very good food source by itself for
corals.> about every other day. <What does your lighting consist of,
Nick? This may be part of the problem in losing corals.> My test
results have generally been within the parameters I have been reading
about - no ammonia or nitrate spikes, no algae problems. I did a test
last week after a hiatus of about 3 weeks and found my phosphorous at 6
ppm! I use well water that tests (Reef Lab dropper kit) at about 0.2
ppm phosphate. Could the phosphates in the well water be building
up? Any other ideas, do I need to go to RO water? <I'm assuming you
also have an algae bloom. With phosphate levels that high out of the
tap, it can certainly lead to this. Do you do a 10% water change
weekly? Yes, I do think you should go to RO water or a de-ionized
water. James (Salty Dog)> <<Groan... the question James...>>
Fighting Phosphates and Keeping Water Quality High!
Hi Scott,
<Hello again!>
Thanks for the response. On the phosphate test kit
reading, I said "maybe slightly" because the color difference between
the "no reading" and the "first reading" is extremely hard to tell
apart.
<I understand...Many of the kits we use can be a bit hard to
read the results on!>
Sorry, I'm not at home, so I don't have the
brand of kit in front of me or what the "first reading" measurement
is. If only a slight amount of phosphate can make a difference, I
probably need to get another kit. Any good recommendations?
<For
real accuracy, you could get a Merck phosphate test kit, but they are
rather pricey. The Salifert, LaMotte, and Hach lines are good, too.>
I also didn't mention that I cut the feedings back to every 2 days out
of 3.
<Well, don't starve your fish, but certainly do feed carefully
when you do. Your continued careful husbandry will get you through this.
I like to be habitual in maintenance, doing the same routine regularly,
adjusting if required, but otherwise being relentless. Consistency is a
good thing. Develop and maintain those good habits!>
On the carbon
(charcoal is a little old school), I've used Black Diamond and Kent in
the last 2 months. I've used ChemiPure in the past. Any recommendations
for carbon? I certainly don't want any that will leach phosphates.
<Both the brands that you mention are fine, IMO. I alternate between
Seachem Matrix Carbon and Rowa Carbon, myself, and get very good
results.>
I'm also using Kent salt. I think I remember some folks
questioning it's quality. Any personal thoughts there too? Thanks, John
<I like many Kent products, but I have not used their salt. I've used
Tropic Marin for many years, and have just stuck with it. You might want
to check with your fellow hobbyists to see what kind of results they are
getting with this mix. Whatever brand you settle on, I'd stay with it if
you get good results. Consistency is so important, IMO!>
Leaching of Phosphates
Good evening crew.
<Good afternoon>
I wanted to run a theory by you guys. I have a green hair algae issue in
my 29gal marine tank. I've discovered the problem to be excess
phosphate. Phosphate levels are around .6ppm. I tested for nitrates, but
they come up around 0ppm. I use DI water only in my tank and phosphate
testing of the water of course comes up negative.
I do however have
a single piece of reddish colored lava rock in my tank and browsing
through the FAQ sections leads me to believe this could be the culprit
(the algae grows most prolific on this rock.... more so than my live
rock) I will remove the rock. Do you think the lava rock has been
leaching phosphates because I can't think of any other way they are
getting into my system? Thanks a million, you guys are fantastic.
<Eric, phosphates can also be introduced by certain foods, and most
activated carbons will leach phosphates, especially the cheaper brands.
If you are using carbon, I would switch to a product like Chemi-Pure.
James (Salty Dog)><<Uh, the question James... Yes, this rock, and most
all rock can be a source of soluble Phosphate... RMF>> |
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