Large angelfishes in 170 gallon tanks   8/19/07
Dear Bob and friends,
<Hey there>
Thank you for all your previous answers to my questions. I spent so much time reading through. I have two tanks and they are both 170 gallons. I only want to keep two large angelfish in one tank and 7 green Chromis and 2 clownfish in each tank.
My question is can I mix one Pomacanthus Asfur with one Pomacanthus Imperator in one 170 gallon tank with 7 Chromis and 2 clownfish.
The other 170 gallon tank with one P. Maculosus and a Scribbled Angelfish (Chaetodontoplus duboulayi). There will be no other fishes. I really love to keep only large angelfishes.
Thank you and I would really appreciate your answer. It would be so helpful for me. Thank you again.
<Mmm, I would not do this... Some folks, companies have very good success actually crowding Pomacanthids (et al. families) together in greater numbers in large marine systems... but in this case... One's company, two's an untenable crowd... I would just go with one large Angel species in such a size tank... and the Red Sea Angels, larger tanks at that. Bob Fenner>

Angel fish problems ... systems, comp. - 03/12/2006
Dear WWM Crew,
I'm having problems with my reef tank and would greatly appreciate your experience and guidance.
By way of background I have an Aqua One AR-850 (about 50 gal), which I set
up 11 months ago.  Unfortunately, I didn't discover your site until after I purchased my tank and equipment.
The tank has 3 filters:
(1)     Built-in AR-850 top filter with sponges, porcelain tubes and wool.
(2)     Aqua One CF-1200 canister filter with:
a.       Level 1/top - bio balls;
b.       Level 2/middle - Porcelain tubes; and
c.       Level 3/bottom - 2 sponges.
<These last I would likely remove>
(3)     Small submerged UV filter with built in air pump.
I have a reasonable quantity of live rock and corals, large anemone, large
clam, etc.  Until yesterday, the resident fish were:
*         2 Ocellaris Clownfish;
*         1 Royal Dottyback;
*         1 Yellow Tang;
*         2 dwarf Angelfish (Coral Beauty and Singapore Angel); and
<... inappropriate for this size system>
*         1 Pacific Blue Tang.
<Ditto ultimately>
The fish entered the tank in the order shown above, with the Blue Tang
entering last, about 3 weeks ago - it's doing well.  The 2 Angelfish went
into the tank in December (received as a gift).  Although possibly not that
suitable for a reef tank, both angelfish had settled in and appeared to be
doing well.  
<Not for long...>
Yesterday, I noticed the Coral Beauty was missing and the Singapore Angel
(normally an active grazer) was hiding away - it had a very pinched stomach
but otherwise looked healthy and didn't appear to be gasping.  The Singapore Angel passed away today.
<...>
I have tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and KH.  All appear fine, except the nitrate is high (40mg/litre),
<Yes>
although it has always tested at that level since the tank stabilized and the algae/invertebrate don't appear
to be affected - also, I understand nitrate kits tend to give exaggerated readings.
<Not likely... and you want to reduce this>
I normally do a 15 to 20% water change each fortnight.  The past few months,
I have been collecting water from the ocean (which is possible a bit
polluted - I don't know).  I assumed it was better for the fish that prepared water.
I'm at a loss as to why both Angels died so abruptly when they seemed to be
doing so well.  Perhaps my tank and filter set up is not good enough for angel fish - what do you think?
<Not "the right" environment for these pomacanthids... and not together>
Also, I am concerned that the other fish might start to die and I would like to feel I have done everything I could to prevent that from happening.
<I as well>
Your thoughts/comments would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,
Cameron
<Mmm, what to say? Where to start? Do read re Nitrates on WWM, remove those sponges... consider other means of improving water quality... and please read re Quarantine, the Systems, Compatibility of future purchases ahead of their acquisition. Bob Fenner>

Water temperature for my FOWLR angelfish tank
Good Afternoon,
I have a 125 gal FOWLR tank. 1 5 inch Imperator & 1 7 inch Blue Faced Angel. I just added a 36 watt UV on the tank with a pump for it in my wet/dry. The temperature of my water is 83 degrees. Do I need a chiller? I was told that Angels like warmer water, but will that do harm long term??? 
<Should be fine... will slightly shorten lifespans, could cause trouble in terms of gas solubility... in the event of power outage, overfeeding, die-off... Bob Fenner>

Angel & Tang Problems
Fri, 4 Feb 2005
Hi, and I hope this gets through.
I have never known of sites were I can get help for my lil fishy's. so I can only pray this works since I am a novice at computers also!  here's my questions of help..
1) I have a 75 gallon tank with an emperor angel, a blue tang, a queen angel, 2 small clowns and a yellow tang,<Problem #1, too small a tank for these types of fish.> My emperor has his flesh gone from his gills, to the tip of his nose, the blue tang has discoloration on his nose, the queen has bad looking scales, the yellow tang has total discoloration, its faded light yellow. I feed them life line everyday and they eat like lil piggies. they have been in this state for at least a year now. I have tried local solutions with no avail, like ecosystem fish solution. I am moving ahead anyway and venturing into a 125 gallon tank!!! I am torn between starting over with new fish or trying with much patience to bring these fish back. Will the emperor be scared forever?  other than that my fish look great!!!!!! <Thomas, your situation is saddening.  Like so many other newbies, you can't resist the looks of these angels, tangs, etc, and purchase them without knowing their requirements for survival in a closed system.  These fish require plenty of room, excellent water quality and good nutrition in a variety of forms.  Even moving them to a 125, even though it will help the situation, is not a big enough tank as most of the angels in this family can grow in excess of twelve inches in length.>
2) With my move to a 125 gallon tank I have a large sump with a pump that I am not exactly sure is big enough to handle the tank. What size pump do I need? Gallons per hour is what I am looking for, I guess.<You will need a 1000-1200 gph pump and may require additional circulation by means of powerheads.> I also have a protein skimmer back pack that came with the set up. I am not sure how to tell you what make or size it is but what will I need for a 125 gal tank?
  I see a lot of different diets for angels and tangs, I am a bit confused by it all. Can you break it down for me in a 1-2-3 matter of fact? <The Ocean Nutrition Angel Food would be a good place to start as it contains the types of food they require.  They also require some algae in their diet.  Most supermarkets carry "Sushi Nori" which is a freeze dried form of algae that they seem to take to and is very nutritious.> I am really slow at catching on as you can tell by my fish so all the e-z, how to you can send my way would be extremely appreciated. Any other tips on starting a 125 gal would be a bonus!! If this does get through,  thank you very very much for any help you can send my way. <Thomas, it sure sounds like you got off on the wrong foot.  My suggestion to you would be to purchase a book like Bob Fenner's Conscientious Marine Aquarist or one similar, and read it from cover to cover.  You need to have an understanding of what your getting into.  The angels are definitely for aquarists in the advanced stage.  Even though you have kept them for some time, the health of these angels is in poor shape.  You mentioned the ecosystem.  This type of filter is excellent for angels if it is set up properly, which includes the use of their miracle mud, Caulerpa (macro algae) and power compact lighting 20-22 hours over the filter. It has been known to reverse the dreaded lateral line disease. I wish you luck my friend, but you need to get yourself more educated in the fish you buy before plucking down your hard earned money.  The Wet Web Media FAQ site has endless information on most anything you want to know.  www.wetwebmedia.com.  Definitely get those fish into that 125, and the Bak Pak you mentioned is not enough for the 125.  Getting an additional one will probably be enough skimmer for you.
James (Salty Dog)>                                              Thomas Duffey
                                                               trying hard   with lil hope   

How Much Room Does a Queen Need? (4/23/04) 
I really need some help on the possibility of owning a queen angel. I am setting up a 125G FOWLR, and would love to add a queen angel. Everything I have read says they should be in a 180G tank, <Absolute minimum. Frankly, it ought to be in an even bigger tank.> but the dimensions are so similar, how much difference does it really make? A 180G is only 2" taller and 4" deeper (front to back). <Front-to-back does matter! A 17" fish won't much enjoy trying to turn around in a 20" space.> What I consider to be the important dimension, side to side (swimming distance) <How does it turn to go back the other way?> they are the same. Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence of a small juvenile queen angel, around 2", growing to be healthy and happy in a 125G tank? <Anecdotal evidence means little. I have anecdotal evidence of people living to be 90 despite smoking 2 packs a day. That doesn't mean smoking isn't dangerous.> It would be one of only two larger fish. I plan on having a Zebrasoma desjardinii as well. (I think this fish belongs in a bigger tank too.> All other fish will be of normal smaller size. <You would not be able to have any other fish than these two in such a small tank. You need to re-think your plan. Get a smaller angel and a smaller tang.> Thanks in advance! <Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Steve Allen>

Regal Angel in a Reef
>Hi Bob/Crew,
>>Hello, Marina here tonight.
>I just wondered if you could provide some info beyond what I know.
I have acquired a 3 inch juvenile Red Sea Pygoplites diacanthus, tip top shape, feeding in the shop on Mysis, and put it in my 120g reef tank (mostly leather, Sinularia, a Fungia, xenia, etc).
>>A brave, brave thing you've done, but to have best success with this animal, I think you've provided the best possible of circumstances.  However, do watch some corals.  If you have sponges growing well he'll make good and happy use of them.
>Circulation is good I think, about 20000 l/h -2 Tunze 4002 and one stream 6100- and there is plenty of live rock. I have an aragonite sump.  I feed a variety of foods (Mysis, krill, Gammarus, SF bay emerald entree, squid, lobsters eggs, all soaked in Zoe and vitamins every day) and I add my own hand made live phyto every day.  I was just wondering if you have any suggestions beyond what I am doing to make the fish feel ok.
>>He should FEEL just fine, but also offer greenery.  If you have anything resembling a refugium in which you can grow your own macro algae, he should wish to make use.  Also, Nori (Japanese sushi algae sheets) is EXCELLENT, both to free-feed and to soak in said supplements (I very much like Selcon).
>His tankmates are a 6" majestic - no aggression whatsoever from him at all to the little one, rather the little one seems to have sort of adopted him and never strays far from him... weird hey? - and a regal tang.
>>You have definitely broken some rules with the mixing of angels, though they are each a different genus, so I would remain hopeful that no aggression will transpire upon maturation.  I *would* like to see these fish in a larger system, double that size would be a great start.
>The regal angel is eating and acting normally and moving about in the rocks.  So, any further dietary or other suggestions?
>>Watch, and the tang will greatly appreciate the addition of Nori as well.  I think you should gain best results in this situation, but do watch for nipping of corals by them.  A link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pygoplites/ --  and another: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/euxiphipops.htm
>Many thanks, Massimo,  Brighton UK
>>Quite welcome, Massimo, and best of luck!  Marina

Where Angels DON'T Fear To Tread!
Thanks for your time and assistance, it's truly valued out here in reeferland.
<And we really enjoy corresponding with our fellow fish nuts! Scott F. with you tonight...>
I have been preparing my tank for the last few months to display a Centropyge multicolor and, as this fish costs about 5x any other living investment I have made, I am a little paranoid about my preparation.
<I Don't blame you! It's a great fish, and can live a long time once it's settled in>
I've written here a few times so a Google with broh will bring up my past questions - The tank is MUCH more grown out than these older pics show http://www.skimmerless.com/content/rig/12/. The quick of it - I had a pump failure about 6 months ago, and the consequent death left me saddened, but excited that I could restock closer to my original stocking plan.
<Looks like a nice Centropyge environment to me!>
The tank has gone about 3 months now with a school of 9 Chromis viridis as the only fish. The tank is 30x30x30 with a 55gal refuge. I have let the macro grow like wild, removing only the algae that interferes with the corals by shading, or growth. My parameters are the best they have ever been, with all levels at zero except Nitrate which tends to hang out a little below 5 ppm.
<Still quite acceptable, and can drop to undetectable levels with continued good husbandry procedures>
I have been reading through the FAQs here and whatever I could find on the web about this fish. I am curious about specific algae that this fish will take. I'd feel awfully silly if all the Caulerpas (racemosa, mexicana) Dictyota I grow are not of interest to the fish.
<Well, this fish is usually found among rubble on steep outer reef slopes, so macroalgae may form a more limited part of its diet. However, if well maintained, the macroalgae can perform other valuable services, such as serving as a fine nutrient export mechanism, and acting as a haven for useful food items, such as amphipods, etc.>
The only other question I have is about lighting. The tank was aquascaped with hiding in mind - so there are lots of caves and almost completely dark areas, however, there is still close to 1000W pouring into this tank. Should I reduce my 10000k lamp schedule and rely on the 20000k more to simulate a deeper environment?
<It certainly couldn't hurt...It will certainly lend a more "realistic" look to the tank>
The only other fish in the tank will be the Chromis, a blue spot jaw, and possibly a fairy wrasse in the future. Thanks.
Bill Roh
<Sounds like a nice mix. I like your approach to keeping this unique fish! It's very cool to plan a biotope around a fish's special needs. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>