Possible issue with advice... Wavemaker controller/s, "advice" and WWM, good/better methods of cat-skinning     1/14/07
Bob, Anthony, Crew;
<Tirion>
Lots of time has past since I last wrote; I hope to find you and the Crew happy and well.
<Life rolls onward, as the saying goes. Thank you for this.>
This note is not necessarily something directed at being published on the board - I simply wanted to point out that I disagree with it and get your collective input.
<Ok>
Catching up on some reading, I happened by this question/response;
"- Overflow Noise and More... -
Hi All,
Finally, found a great site that will help me develop a great saltwater aquarium.  Thanks for taking time to answer my questions.  First I have a 125 gallon tank with 2 overflows.  The main pump that I am using is a Quiet One 4000, at 4 feet of head the GPH is 750.  The sound of water, like a waterfall sound, is loud and very disturbing in my dining room.  Any suggestions of how to eliminate this waterfall sound. <Consider a standpipe... this will raise the water level in the overflow so that the water pouring in doesn't have to fall as far. Check out this link: http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe_frame.htm >
Last question. Recently I just purchased the Red Sea Wavemaker Pro.  I know how you feel about not needing to use wavemakers, but I would like to try this thing out.  The issue is that I purchased 2 CAP 1800's and 2 CAP 800 Powerheads.  They are quiet, but they are not designed for the on/off function of a wavemaker.  I am going to exchange those for powerheads more designed to work with a wavemaker.  I know that the MaxiJet1200 works well with wavemakers.  But with a GPH of 295, will 4 of these pumps be enough for a 125 gallon tank? <No.>  If not, can you suggest which kind and how many powerheads I should use with the wavemaker (I am looking for quiet and something that will work with a wavemaker)? *<I would look into the Tunze Stream Pumps, although you'll have to can the Red Sea wave maker and use the Tunze model made specifically for their electronic pumps.>* I have coral, a few tangs and 125 pounds of live rock.
Thanks again for your help!!!!
Regards, Roger
<Cheers, J -- >"
Up to the point that I have highlighted and underlined in Fuchsia (Responders note; color codes don't remain when we go to post to the site, so I've marked the quoted area with asterisks.), I didn't see any issue.  The Tunze recommendation is rock solid.  However advising Roger that he will have to "can" the Red Sea is not valid, IMHO - in this scenario the Red Sea should work well with the Tunze as A) The user said nothing about needing to control the output, B) The Red Sea does use Soft Start which would be exactly the same as what the 70XX.X Tunze multicontroller does at start up to ramp the stream output and C) unless flow output manipulation is required, the Tunze controller is 2.5x the cost of the Red Sea.
<Here is simply a difference of opinions. This is why we here recommend people to not blindly follow our suggestions, but instead we act as a means to nudge people in the right direction, and encourage them to further investigate on their own and make their own conclusions. Part of the strength of WetWebMedia is the fact that its presentation, while sometimes chaotic, is very conducive to learning on your own, and beyond that, picking up on things you may have not even known you needed to be aware of.>
To be honest, without asking about the current standpipe or plumbing, not sure the Durso comments were on track either.
<Again, a difference of opinions. J's response may have not been on track, but the original emailer was simply asking for some base guidance, which was provided.>
Do you concur or am I being too picky?  
<Not too picky, just further proving that, as the tacky adage goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.>
I would hate to see someone 'can' a super product like the Red Sea based on a recommendation I believe is not solid; albeit well intentioned, since your site is such an awesome resource to use all.
<I agree with you on this point, Tirion. However, Tunze does not recommend their use on controllers other than the Tunze equipment, so my guess is that this is why the original replier made this suggestion. We're always open for a difference of opinions, and oftentimes the opinions from crew member to crew member vary. This is one of the things that has allowed WWM to grow into the behemoth that it is, allowing so many varied facets of this hobby to be seen. An extra set of eyes with a different intuitive approach to problem solving often results in different solutions to the same end.>
Thanks and take good care.
T
<Same to you, T. Thank you for this, we will post it for all to see. -JustinN>

What is a reefer’s dreams made of…..no, not that illegal plant…..Tunze Streams  12/24/05
Hello crew,
<Hello.>
I've got an 80 gallon, with live rock, many mushrooms, and star polyps. Also a small undulated trigger. I probably won't add any more soft corals.
(Or fish, of course.)
<Yeah watch that trigger.>
I'm not using a canister filter, but have a Remora Pro skimmer. Right now I have two SEIO pumps. I can't stand them because I can't mount them well so I just have them sitting in the tank.
<I didn’t have a good experience with them either to be honest.>
It is difficult to aim them and they keep moving. Plus they are noisy since they are leaning on the glass.
<They break down fairly easily too.>
I want to upgrade my pumps, and am thinking of getting a Tunze or two. I figure I should get better flow with these, and can get the magnet mounts.
<They are grade “A” products. Very nice and VERY pricey. But you get what you pay for that goes for both the SEIO and the Tunze.>
Will I get better flow with a pair, or is a single pump ok?
<For what you have a single one would be fine, though yes two will create a more turbulent bio-tope. I’m a huge advocate of lots water flow, so if you want more than one you won't get an argument from me there. However you do have a lot mushrooms which aren’t very appreciative of direct flow. So if you do decide to go for the Tunze streams, I would put them in opposite corners, facing either each other or the front glass and not directly at your sessile inverts.>
I plan on getting rid of both Seios, so won't a single pump be too unidirectional, or does the stream design kind of fix that?
<Tunze Streams are built so that a even a single pump creates a lot of turbulence, 1 Tunze stream will easily outperform the duo of SEIO’s you already have.>
Also, are the Tunze pretty quiet?
<Much more so than the SEIO in my experience.>
And do the magnet
mounts really work well?
<Not as well as the other options but well enough that I think you would be happy with them.>
Thanks in advance for answering any of these questions!
<For your set-up (if you want 2) I would go with x2 6100, Tunze streams on a controller turned to the lowest possible setting, this will give you the effect you want. Here is the “kit” I am referencing to for your benefit: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TZTS21 . I told you they were expensive, hehe. But look at it this way, this kit will provide all the water flow you need up to about a 180 gallon aquarium should you choose to upgrade. Adam J.>

Equipment/Tunze 6000   3/16/06
Hi I love your site but cant find the answer to my question which no one I know can answer either. I'm setting up a 55 gal tank for corals only (not sure which yet) and was thinking on buying 2 Turbelle Streams 6000 with the 7095 multicontroller. My simple Question, is this going to be too much flow for my tank? I want wave action but not water on the floor.  <Contact  Johnny@premiumaquatics.com.  They handle the Tunze line and they will be more than glad to help you.  James (Salty Dog)>

Tunzes In The Night (Night Mode For Streams)   4/18/06
Hi Mr. Fenner!
<Scott F. in for Bob today!>
A short one today. I have two Tunze Stream 6100 with a Multicontroller in my 90 gal. You sure know about the optional "night mode" gadget on the controller (flow a bit slower at night for simulating supposedly natural calmer sea at night because of high tide...). In another way one could argue that night is when you need more circulation to avoid CO2 buildup. So I would like your opinion on this. Is it really beneficial in the slightest to use that night-mode?
Thanks!
Have a nice day!
Dominique
<Hi Dominique! I am a big fan and user of Streams, myself. However, I have never utilized the "Night Mode" that the 7095 controller offers. I do like the "moon light", however! I personally have not seen any advantage to the night mode. I agree with your assertion that there is a greater buildup of CO2 at night, anyways. However, my real reason for not using the "Night Mode" is related to the reliability of the pumps. In my experience, unless you are absolutely vigilant about maintenance, regularly shutting down the pumps or throttling them into the Night Mode or Feeding Modes means more of a chance for calcium and gunk (that's a technical term, of course!) that may have built up in the impellor to prevent a re-start to the faster pulse modes. That means you'll have a higher likelihood of hearing that dreaded alarm go off, signaling another vinegar soak! No big deal, really, but annoying nonetheless. Another issue I have with the "Night Mode" is that, unless you are very careful about where you are aiming the Stream, you can end up with a simple laminar flow blasting away (even though it's at a lower speed) at your coral tissue all night. Just a thought. Anyways, end the end it's your call about this mode of operation, but I have never used this mode and have enjoyed great success with these pumps. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Equipment/Pumps...Tunze Stream 6060 Circulation Question - 08/26/2006
Hello,
<Hi>
First, I would like to thank you for your great effort in helping those in need.
<You're welcome>
Well, this time I'm one of them. I have a new 100 gallon FOWLR tank that I'm converting to a reef tank soon, and my question lies in circulation.
Initially I was planning to upgrade my circulation by adding two Maxi-Jet 1200's to total about 600 gph. But I came to understand that I want more circulation. I'm not a big fan of filling my tank with powerheads, and that is when I started to consider the Tunze Stream 6060.
What I liked about it is the power it packed (around 1600 gph). Will this powerhead be enough as the sole provider of circulation for my 100 gallon tank? And what about dead spots?
<An excellent pump, but you will likely have dead spots. My suggestion would be to go with the Dr. Foster & Smith package that includes three Maxi-Jet 1200's and an Aquarium Systems Wavemaker Timer.  This will give you a random flow rate totaling close to 900 gph, and can be had for about 90 bucks complete.  Along with your return pump, this should give you plenty of circulation and little or no dead spots.  Tunze makes an excellent wavemaker box that closely simulates nature, but this would be out of your budget range by another 400 bucks.>
Also do you know if there is any another brand of powerhead that packs a punch like the Tunze and can be used alone (keep in mind that the 6060 is the maximum of what my budget allows)?
<Not in the power head format.>
I also have another question. I'm adding a sump in the near future. My plan is to use a CPR CS100 overflow box (flow rate 800 gph) and an AquaC Urchin Pro (due to limited space), and I am having trouble in choosing a good return pump. What do you recommend?
<I'd probably go with an Ocean Runner 3500.  Will give you 900gph at the head, and is one of the more efficient pumps with a 65 watt current draw.  Do compare others also.>
Sorry for taking your time.
<That is what we are here for.>
Thank you and keep up the great work.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Mohammad

Adding a Tunze Turbelle 6060 to my 125 gal reef  - 09/14/06
Hello Guys and Gals, I would like to add a Tunze 6060 to my reef but I am not sure how to place it for optimum performance. Water flow is currently generated from 2 Fluval 802 powerheads set up at either sides of the back wall and with a slight angle so I could bank the flow off the front of the glass.
<This is best... at an angle downward...>
I also have  a 1500 gph pump in my sump that is my return. I am not sure where to place the Tunze. I only purchased 1 for 137.00 dollars. (These babies are not cheap).. Let me know where I should place this given my current config...See ya
<Very good powerhead/submersible pumps. Enjoy. Bob Fenner>

Some Follow-Up Questions – 10/16/06
Thanks for the quick reply, but I have some follow-up questions for your expertise.
<<Alrighty>>
** I have two Maxi-jet 1200’s and two ZooMed 228 power sweeps. Should I put in more power heads in for more circulation and which ones and how many do you recommend? <<I would add more flow, yes...will be much appreciated by the fish. Perhaps you can replace all these power-heads with a couple Tunze 6060 Stream pumps? Else just add enough Maxi-Jet pumps to prevent any stagnant/low flow areas in the tank>>**
Well, those guys are really expensive (sigh), BUT as I have found out nothing in the hobby is cheap.
<<Ha! Indeed!  You can get by with standard power heads, but if you ever try the Tunzes you won’t go back>>
I have also discovered that the more expensive then the more likely they will be around for a long time.  I was thinking of adding one on each side of the tank and pulling all of the other power heads.  Does this sound like a good idea? (These are cheaper than having to buy the Eheim 2229)
<<Sounds great to me!>>
As with the move, after your input and all of the information I can read, this is my plan.
Start REALLY early in the day.. (Yeah, no sleeping in)
<<Ah yes...best to plan to get it all done in one go>>
Have all items for the new tank on hand and put on the tank if they need to be mounted.  Transfer enough of the water out of the 55 to move the tank and put the 150 behind it.  Use live sand for the tank and use the water and the LR from the old FOWLR.  Have more water pre-made and cured for three days with some LR in each of the Rubbermaid Trash Cans.  Each can will have power heads in them to keep the water circulating and will have a heater to achieve proper tank temperature.  Have the fish in another 30 gallon tub and introduce them after the tank has been up for at least four hours.  This tank will have an AquaC Remora Pro with a MAG3 for skimming and aeration. (Yes, I have four trash cans that are available to me and yes I am also going to thoroughly clean each of them.
<<Yep...looks like you’ve got a good plan and things are under control>>
Again, thank you for your insight on my query for enlightenment.
Scot
<<You’re quite welcome, Eric Russell>>

Tunze Streams Vs. EcoTech Vortec Pumps  - 10/24/06
Hi WWM
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
Another water flow question, do you have an opinion as to which pumps are better- the Tunze 6100 or the Eco Tech Vortech. I have a 157 reef tank 72in long and want to place 2 of which ever would be best. The Tunze's are more adjustable at this time due to the controller but the Vortech doesn't have the motor and cord inside the tank so no heat exchange and the controller is being developed. They both put out a lot of movement.
Thanks
Robert
<Well, Robert- my personal experience is exclusively with the Tunze Streams, which I have used extensively (600,6100 and 6200 models). I have seen the Vortechs a few times, and know a few people who use them. I favor Streams for several reasons. The first, as you mentioned, is that most of them (6000,6100,and 6200) are controllable. The 7095 controller is a very sophisticated and versatile controller. Also, the Streams can be directed on the magnet mounts, Stream "rock", or other methods. Vortechs do not have swivel capability, and can only flow perpendicular to their mounting, reducing their utility, IMO. Also, the controller is not available for the Vortechs, which is really limiting. On the other hand, if you can tolerate these factors, the Eco Tech is aesthetically better than the Tunze. However, the reliability of Tunze products is legendary...They can literally run forever if you maintain them, and Tunze USA customer service is outstanding. Vortec needs to be on the market a little longer to see how the reliability is. In the end, I'd give the edge to Tunze! HTH. Regards, Scott F.>

- Tunze Stream Pumps -
Hello again,
<And hello to you - JasonC here...>
I wrote to y'all a few months ago about a 48" x 18" x 20" Tenecor Simplicity Plus tank (internal sump in the back). Regarding water movement, the conclusion was that powerheads are necessary for additional circulation. I recently found out about the Tunze Turbelle Stream line of submerged pumps. Does anyone at WWM have experience with them? <Yup, spotted these in May of last year at the InterZoo show in Nuremberg. Excellent power head.>
The flow rates are incredible: the 6080 base model offers 2250 gph at 17 watts. The diagram on Tunze's Web site shows a "gentle current" that claims to be more beneficial than narrow streams produced by conventional powerheads. But with such high output, is there a danger that smaller fish, like a lawnmower blenny or green Chromis, would get sucked into or injured by the flow into the intakes? <Not really, the design is such that this device is not like a conventional power head, this is more like a boat propeller in a fan shroud. The intakes are quite large and spread out making it difficult to trap a small fish.>
And the golden question is does it perform as claimed? <Yes.> The flow rates are so high it just boggles my mind. <You should see it in action.> I don't want to spend the money only to find out it works like a giant vacuum cleaner, or the flow is so high it knocks over everything in its path. <The flow is high enough to knock over everything it its path - best to place at the top of the aquarium.> But if it does work well it seems like a great product, maybe even a revolutionary one, for reef keepers that don't have the luxury of large-overflow/sump/external-pump setups. I just want to know more about this product from people with experience. <Worth the money.>
Thanks,
J.D.
<Cheers, J -- >

Which Tunze Turbelle Stream pump? 7/29/04
WWM Crew, I am planning to purchase 2 Tunze Turbelle Stream pumps.  I plan to place one pump the floor of the tank inside the 'rock cover' that Tunze sells, and the other I plan to place near the top of the tank in the diametrically opposite corner, held in place with the new Tunze 'magnetic holder'.  I also plan to add the new Tunze multi-controller model 7095 to control the pumps.  I am setting up a new tank that is 125 gallons.  I was planning to get the Turbelle Stream model 6000 (variable flow rate 660 to 1849 GPH), but the business that I am paying to do the installation has told me (although they are unfamiliar with the new
'STREAM' version of the Tunze Turbelle pumps) that they recommend that I get the 6100 model (variable flow rate 1056 to 3170 GPH) since I'll have the multi-controller and will be able to limit the max. flow rate (but will have a higher minimum flow rate).  I plan to have a mixture of SPS and soft corals.  What model do you recommend (I'm pretending that money is no object).  Thanks Rod  <Hmmm.... I used to pretend that money is no object.  Then I got married!  Ha!  Anyway, I would go with the larger pumps.  You will probably be quite surprised at how close to "wide open" you end up running them, especially if you cycle them on and off with the controller which cuts deeply into the total flow. Also, with such a large investment, you want the system to be able to grow with you if you get a larger tank.  Do also consider the wattage of each and the relative amounts of heat that they will produce.  Best Regards!  Adam>

Which Tunze Turbelle Stream pump? Part2 8/1/04
Thanks for your prompt reply Adam.  Unfortunately, I'm still confused since I also (somewhat unexpectedly!) received a reply from Tunze with the opposite recommendation.  Please do me a favor and review their recommendation and let me know if you still feel that I should go with the larger pump in this case:
From: Tunze USA [mailto:tunze@sbcglobal.net]
No way, the 6100 would turn your tank into a whirlpool. The lowest end of the 6100 is equal to the high flow capacity of the 6000, they don't overlap at all. For the older versions it would be fine but not for the Streams. You can adjust the flow with a potentiometer on the side of the computer to one constant speed until your controller arrives. You must however return it to full power when you connect a controller. Roger
<I have seen a lot of Roger's advice to other aquarists, and would trust his judgment.  He has a lot of experience with the products and it is hard to question the manufacturer when they recommend the less expensive option!  Best Regards.  AdamC>

Moving Water With Tunze Streams
Scott F:
<Hi there! Happy holidays to you and your family>
Happy holidays and thanks so much for the advice.
<Glad to be of service>
I am seriously considering a Turbelle Stream Kit TS24 (with two powerheads directed at each other from each end of the top of the 6' tank and a multicontroller), but I have fear that I may be setting up a whirlpool with all that water flow!
<Well, I won't mislead you- these pumps can really move water. If they are directed right on to coral, they can literally strip the tissue right off! However, if you set them up according to Tunze's recommendations, you'll be very pleased with the results.>
The LFS's don't carry this high end item so I can't go check it out....money isn't the object but I'd hate to plunk down $800
for something I can't use or won't be happy with....on the other hand I don't mind spending the money to significantly improve my tank inhabitant's quality of life.  Advice?
Thanks,
Margo Rose
<Well, Margo- I certainly understand your thinking here! The one good thing about the 6100's and 6200's is the ability to use the Tunze Multicontroller to vary their output. This can create a very realistic flow/current pattern in your tank. Also, do go onto some of the larger message boards, such as Reef Central or Reef Frontiers, to get some feedback from fellow hobbyists. If you can afford them, and are willing to experiment with them a bit to get the flow patterns the way you like them, you'll fin that these pumps are really amazing. Good luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>

Tank Drilling Question, Tunze Adaptation
Thank you for your reply. <Surely> The holes in the top of the tank will only be large enough for the mechanism the Tunze powerhead will hang from and the cord.  <Form follows function!>
What type of hole saw do I use to make the hole and do I measure and just drill like I normally would, say for example like a doorknob? <I would call the retailer you purchased the tank from, and see what bit they've had success with.  They have likely had a bit of trial and error, if you know what I mean.  The important part is to go nice and slow.  I have used a Dremel for this in the past.> The tank currently has 1" of crushed see shells and about 50 lbs. of "Reef Bones".  Can I add the deep sand bed over the current substrate and use the "Reef Bones" as a base for the live rock? <You can mix the sands to provide a diversity, but I'd probably remove a good amount.  Larger particles tend to trap debris, which becomes a problem once it starts to be processed.> The tank has an acrylic canopy so I thought about using 2, 175w metal halides (55k) and 2, 96w actinic PC's.  My taste in corals tends to be of the soft variety but I do like the elegance coral and some other hard corals.  Will this lighting setup be ample? <Yes, a nice choice for the animals kept.> Also using the bulbs I've described will the lighting have a blue tint as that is what I prefer. <All about preference!> Thank You for all your help and Merry Christmas to you and all the Wet Web Media staff.
<And a happy new year! Ryan>

- Tunze Skimmers -
Hello Anthony!
<Anthony is actually in Tonga, no doubt having his skinny self wrestled to the ground by a large Tongan woman.>
I bought a Tunze Comline automatic 3130/2 and I have difficulties to make it work correctly and SILENTLY so I have been reading the Tunze skimmer FAQs on the WWM. I don't have any experience, this is my first skimmer. Before reading the FAQs I already tried by myself to unscrew the white air regulating screw completely (screw felt out and was removed) noticing that this made it quite silent. Of course it then produces much more foam. The day after I decided to screw it on again because of the excessive amount of very clear yellowish skimmate. I then went on the WWM FAQs and seen that you did advice to open the screw completely but maybe to place the skimmer higher. I also wrote to Roger from Tunze USA and here is what he answers me so I don't know what to think and what to do now:
"The screw should only be open 2.5-3 turns.  Opening it more will be just as bad as not opening it enough.  The bubbles will get bigger and not skim."
<With hardware like this, there is no exact science - only trial and error. I'd experiment with something in between Anthony's and Roger's advice and see how that works for you.>
Thanks in advance for your always helpful assistance!
Dominique
<Cheers, J -- >