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Vitamin supplements 2/3/15 Hypervitaminosis 6/7/12 A question about the Vitamins
9/15/11
An Assortment 5/16/2011 Vitamins/Additives 4/4/2011 Re: Violet (Dragon?) Goby Questions (Bob,
ideas?) 2/27/11 Snowflake eel food question
02/13/11 Dosing Vitamin C and Vodka plus other
beneficial vitamins 11/08/10 "Vita-Chem" Vitamin, toxic?
7/30/10 Enriched Aiptasia for Chelmon Rostratus?
6/7/10 Re: Snowflake Eel not eating w/cloudy eye, and Vitamin
C use f' - 03/29/10 Re: A failed crypt battle, now vitamin uptake
6/18/09 Re: A failed crypt battle, now vitamin uptake
6/18/09 Re: A failed crypt battle, now vitamin uptake
<ChristineW> 6/18/09 Re: A failed crypt battle, now vitamin uptake
<MikeM> 6/18/09 Re: A failed crypt battle, now vitamin uptake
6/18/09 Zoecon Question; (over) dosing? 11/28/08 Hi, We have a 90 gallon reef tank and I am concerned that I may have added too much Zoecon at one time. <Mmm...> We have a clown that got sick and we moved her to a quarantine tank and read that brine shrimp w/added Zoecon may help her recover quickly. We got them a week or so ago and I added 3-6 drops to a bucket of brine shrimp. She hasn't been that interested in them (she has been a lot more receptive to blood worms). Last night we gave it another try and she ate a few of them. So, I thought it would be a good idea to add a little more Zoecon to the shrimp, since it seemed like she might start eating them. Before I could tell my husband how much he squirted it into the bucket. I would guess it was the equivalent to 10-20 drops. At the time I thought I better check before we use them again, but this morning I decided to give the main tank a treat and gave them a turkey baster full of shrimp. Right after I did this I remembered about the Zoecon and added a little flake food to make the brine a little harder to find. Is it possible to overdose the tank that way? <Is possible, but not practically so. This product is diluted to an extent... and you dilute its concentration further... Unless you/someone were to really put ounces into a typical volume system there would be little issue. Unless the water smells strongly of "vitamins", is foaming excessively, has an apparent "slick" at the surface... and/or your livestock is acting oddly, I would not worry> We do not regularly feed them live brine (and I don't think we've ever used Zoecon before this batch). We have: Banggai cardinal, 2 clowns, wrasse, hippo tang, mandarin, starfish, blue damsel, black&white damsel, an assortment of coral and hermit crabs. Thanks for your help! <I would not be concerned here. Bob Fenner> Additives 07/28/2008 Hi Crew, <<Good evening, Andrew today>> If I want to add Selcon to the water once a week or any minerals do I have to remove carbon or poly filters and if I do for how long. <<I would, yes, leave off for a couple of days. The question is, do you really need to be adding these to your tank? Is a test showing up a deficiency? Add the Selcon direct to the food prior to feeding.>> <<Thanks for the question, hope this helps. A Nixon>> Re: Additives, Selcon... 07/30/2008 Thanks for the answer. I understand about adding Selcon to food. I was under the impression that adding it to the water would help the coral that I do not feed like Candycanes. <<Sure thing, its fine to add to the tank for feed. Same answer as before regarding switching off>> <<Thanks for the follow-up. A Nixon>> Mazuri Vitamins - 03/26/08Hi, <<Hello>> I was wondering if anyone wanted to split the Mazuri Vita-Zu sharks/rays II vitamins. My rays will not eat them every day so 600 tabs is way too much I only need like 100 tabs if anyone is interested please email me. Or if anyone knows of somewhere I can buy 100. michelle@shoregraphics.com Thanks, Michelle <<Michele, I think you will get a better response if you post this request on the hobby forums like Reef Central or WWM's forum here (http://bb.wetwebmedia.com/index.php). Regards, EricR>> Making food with baby vitamins 12/15/2007 Hi, I found out you can sometimes use baby vitamins for reef aquariums and was wondering if liquid poly-vi-sol multivitamin for infants would work. here is a link so you can see ingredients. http://www.walgreens.com/store/product.jsp?CATID=100149&navAction=jump&navCount=1&skuid=sku303489&id=prod3489#nutrition <Yes, this would be fine... though there are more complete formulations, products> If not could you give me a brand name that you would suggest? <Most all human-intended are fine... the ones with "more 100% of daily requirement" mixes are better> Also, how can I apply it directly (safely) to a 45 gallon tank with 2 clowns and full of soft and hard corals. <Can be simply dropped in> How much should I use to make a batch of homemade food say per/pound? <Mmm, 10-20 drops per pound of mix is fine> Also I found this website showing the vitamins fish need. http://www2.hawaii.edu/~delbeek/delb16.html#table1 it gives examples of vitamins like A, C, D, E, B1-B6, B12 and others. Do you know of any application where you buy these vitamins at a pharmacy and grind them up for use? <Try the "health food stores"... online or brick and mortar... I would just use liquid prep.s> Maybe a recipe to make sure not to overdose. <Very hard to do... only the "carriers" in the fat soluble (e.g. D and E) are really problematical... for coating the water surface area... and with good skimming, circulation, not even these are problematical> I just thought that by doing this you could make sure and get all the vitamins you think necessary and none that you don't. Thanks so much for all the help! <Mmm, okay... and welcome! Bob Fenner> Re: Making Food With Baby Vitamins, addended, Copper Preservative Concern 12/16/07 <Hi, Pufferpunk here with you tonight.> Thanks for the fast reply and I'm sorry to bother you again. I was searching for a human multivitamin and noticed that the ones I looked at had copper in them and thought that might not be a good choice. <Correct. Copper is deadly to your inverts & leeches into your rock & sand. You definitely don't want that in your tank.> <<Actually, the concentration, amount of copper here is miniscule... a preservative of no consequence... and Copper is indeed a micro-nutrient... for most life, including our own. Do not be concerned re its consequences here. Bob Fenner>> Also some had alcohol in them and thought I should probably avoid those as well. <<Also not a worry. RMF>> <Agreed!> I looked at GNC pharmacy. Am I not looking in the right place? Also as far as adding them to the tank directly how many drops per gallon do you suggest and how often? Thanks always! <Personally, I would not skimp when it comes to your reef tank. Marine vitamins are not that expensive & are extremely concentrated. Make the leap & purchase some for your inhabitants. Try Selcon or Zoa vitamins. Soak their food (prepared frozen mix, frozen Mysis, etc. I also add other foods in the mix, including oyster eggs & DT's phytoplankton) overnight & spot-feed your LPS with a turkey baster & any other meaty corals, including your Palys. Your fish will thank you too! I also feed my marine fish daily, alternating pellets & frozen foods. ~PP> Black spot on Urobatis halleri, vitamin use... - 11/20/07 Hi I was looking at my rays the other day and in certain lighting there seems to be a black spot? <Mmm, can you describe this? Size, shape, placement> I have 2 Urobatis halleri in 60 degree water in a 150 gallon tank soon moving to a 300 gallon. I put Mazuri vitamins in their squid, shrimp everyday. Sometimes they go down other times they are on to me and chew around the vitamin. I wanted to get Mazuri Shark/Ray gel to insure the proper nutrition, but I am concerned with the minerals. It says there is copper, ppm in the ingredients. How can this be safe for the rays? <There is very little of this material... a preservative in this case... and actually a micro-nutrient in small concentration. Not to worry> Is their other things I can supplement with or add? <Mmm, yes... vitamins, HUFAs... Available as commercial prep.s for pet-fish... e.g. Micro-Vit, Selcon...> I tried typing in the goggle search on WWM only black tail rot came up? A quick answer will be greatly appreciated. What is causing the black spot on the body? <Might be a natural marking... have seen this species many times (live, have lived in S. Cal. for decades, diving here...). Bob Fenner> Thanks MM Questions, Zebrasoma sys., HLLE 8/19/07 I have a Z. desjardinii that arrived with a horrible case of Head and Lateral Line Disease, almost as bad as the case on the cover of Dulin's book, Diseases of Marine Aquarium Fishes (which ironically does not even discuss it). Water quality is pristine, 29 gal tank, <Much too small for this Zebrasoma...> with Skilter 400 outside filter <Inadequate...> and Rio 600 powerhead in the tank, is grounded. It receives a 30% - 50% water change weekly from my reef display (500 gallons) which I keep at 1.025sg, ph 8.2-8.3, 78.5 degrees, 12dkh, calcium 425, Mag 1200, strontium 15, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites 0, iron, iodine and phosphate unreadable with SeaChem test kit. I do run carbon continuously as I keep hard and soft corals together, and UV. Continuously skim. Move about 6000gph. and have 200 gal sump/refugium with a bunch of Chaetomorpha . 600+ lb live rock (incl sump), deep sand bed (6") over a plenum. In the Conscientious...you indicate that vitamins C and D are helpful for curing HLLE. <This and iodide, yes> I want to be sure, does the C need to be ascorbic acid without any fillers or binders (such as tablets)? <Can have these... the active ingredient is all that is important> I have been using grain alcohol (Everclear) as the carrier to add it to the food since it is water soluble and then waiting until it has completely evaporated before use (source; Craig Harms, NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine, Fish Health Management Course). How long will the C remain stable/viable in the food? <Long periods of time... at least days> In all of the other literature I have reviewed, C was the only one indicated for HLLE. We have been feeding him Spectrum 1mm pellets fortified with C, and Ocean Nutrition and Spectrum flake mixed, dried marine algae daily, as well as various prepared frozen foods 3 times a week and blanched romaine occasionally, for about 2.5 months now. He eats anything that hits the water quite greedily (we call him our little shark). He has shown some improvement, but at the rate he seems to be healing he will be in quarantine for another year! I am going to try adding broccoli to his diet as you recommend. <Okay> On to vitamin D. Should it be D3? What form? <Mmm, actually, a mix is best... and easiest to supply in a commercial preparation... like Selcon, Micro-Vit...> Powder (most stable) or liquid (suspended in an oil base, found 2, one in almond oil, one in an unknown so would have to contact the mfg to find out). What should the carrier be to add it to the food if powder form? <Best to use a/the liquid prep., add to foods (ten minute or so soak) and perhaps once a week to the water directly... perhaps along with (prior) a regular water change out> Can I use grain alcohol also? <Not necessary or advised> Can I mix it with the vitamin C, both in the food as well as the carrier (if alcohol can be used as the carrier for D3)? If it is the oil based one can it be added directly to the food? <I would not add oils to the system... too likely to be troubles with gas diffusion...> Lastly, at what dosage should I be adding for both? I look forward to hearing from you. Mark Simon, VP Living Marine Art <The real issue/cause of neuromast destruction is not just nutritional here... but environmental... in a word, Stress... this animal needs to be in larger quarters... with natural foodstuffs available (LR...). You have read here? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and the linked FAQs files above? Bob Fenner. Vitamins and moray eel nutrition - 04/26/07 Hi. I have an undulated moray and a snowflake eel, they are in separate tanks. And I would like to know what kind of vitamins to give it and where can I get it? <Local fish store, online, vet… lots of sources and products. You can compare them by studying the table of contents on the packages. Ensure there is plenty of vitamin B in the product you choose. The diet of moray eels consists of fish and crustaceans, and has sometimes pretty much of the enzyme Thiaminase, which can destroy vitamin B. So, adding vitamin B is a good idea. More important than additional vitamins is a varied diet not only consisting of 1 or 2 types of food. Feed a variety of unprepared seafood such as fish, squid, prawns, shrimps, mussel flesh, etc.> Also, I just got my snowflake two days ago. Tried to feed it some frozen shrimp, but it did not want to eat it. Should I be worried? <No. When stressed (e.g. by moving) they stop eating. Be patient and try on. Can take a week or two with this species. Others (e.g. Rhinomuraena) may refuse to eat much longer.> And what should I do? <Read more on WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/morays.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/snowflakemoray.htm and the related FAQs.> Thank you. <Welcome, Marco.> Amino Acid Supplements For Coral 1/12/06 Hi Crew, <Hello Mohamed, Mich with you today.> I will like to know what is the benefits of using amino acid for corals and has anyone from the crew done experiments with amino acid? <The benefit is providing nutrients that are not easily synthesized from the environment. Many extol the use of vitamin supplements such as Selcon, which contains amino acids. Eric Borneman mentions in his book Aquarium Corals on page 58 that "Some of the products required by corals and Zooxanthellae that are not supplied by photosynthesis include vitamins and long chain fatty acids. These compounds are supplied by diet only. Glycine is also a compound the many coral do not easily synthesize, and it, along with some carbon, may be obtained in the wild by living in proximity to the released photosynthetic products of certain macro algae." In a home aquarium this association may not be possible. Therefore addition of amino acids via a vitamin supplement may be quite advantageous. Thanks Mohamed Loss of vitamins, SW - 09/14/06 Hi WWM crew, I have a question for you regarding activated carbon. Should I remove it when I dose multi-vitamins into the tank? If no, won't the activated carbon absorb the vitamins? Thanks in advance. Regards. <Mmm... some... but if the carbon is more than an hour or two old... exceedingly little... More likely to be skimmed... Bob Fenner> Lighting and feeding questions 7/12/06 Hello, I have a couple questions and was wondering if I could get your advice. First off, I have a 55 gal. reef tank that has been set up for about 9 months and it's getting time to replace the bulbs. I currently have a pc fixture with 4, 65 watt bulbs, 2 are blue actinics and 2 are 12,000k daylights. I was wondering if you would suggest keeping the set up I have or using 4 50/50 bulbs. To me it would seem that either way would give me the same result, but I was wondering if you would see any advantages or disadvantages to these or a different set up all together. I currently have some fish, some softies- (colt, Shrooms, polyps), pipe organ, and a crocea clam. <If you use all the same brand lamps, the effect should be roughly the same. However, there is a great deal of difference between brands of lamps in spectrum, intensity and quality. The animals only care about intensity (for the most part), so choose good quality lamps that provide you with a pleasing appearance.> Secondly, I am going on vacation and need to feed my Banggai Cardinal who will only eat frozen Mysis. I want to try to get him to eat freeze dried shrimp so that I can put it in my automatic feeder while I'm gone. If I soak this food in vita-chem or Selcon and then let it dry, will it still retain the vitamin supplement, or does this product need to be fed when wet? Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for you help and time! <The question of whether these supplements would still be effective is moot in my opinion. Soaking the food in the supplement and letting it sit is likely to lead to spoilage and/or the food becoming rancid. Even if you think you have thoroughly dried it, the humidity nearby to the aquarium will be enough to cause problems. I strongly advise finding a reliable fish sitter while you are gone and leaving contact information with them. Best Regards. AdamC.> UV/Vitamin C/Lionfish Behavior - 03/02/06 Dear Eric <<Hello Akila>> Thanks for the advice. <<Always welcome>> I got hold of a 9W UV sterilizer and installed it to my main tank. Do you think this is good enough for the tank? <<It can be beneficial to your FOWLR system, yes. Do be sure to keep up on the maintenance of this devise.>> I fix it to my canister filter's output & hope this will do some good for my tank. Do you think this UV will increase the tank temperature to damaging levels? <<no>> I read so many articles that said Vitamin C supplement is very good for Marine Fish. It's pretty hard to get hold of such at the LFS. So is it possible to use a Vitamin C supplement manufactured for Humans and soak or inject with food and feed fish? <<Hmmm...ascorbic acid is just that, but I think the vitamin C supplements manufactured for aquariums are "buffered" differently from those consumed by humans (Bob, please feel free to interject here). Under your circumstances I think it is worth trying, but keep an eye on your system's alkalinity.>> Also my Lionfish seems to be doing well. He eats very well and seems to be free from any infection up to now (fingers crossed!!!). <<Excellent my friend.>> He doesn't swim a lot but, he stays in one place most of the day but swims a bit in the late evenings and early mornings but when he sees food he seems to be just fine and very alert. Is this normal with Lionfish? <<Typical behavior, yes. These fish tend to "hide" during the brightest part of the day.>> What do you think? Is this something to worry about? <<Not at all.>> Appreciate your response Thanks Best regards Akila <<Very welcome, EricR>> Additives 10/6/05 Hello, <Hello> I have a 30 gallon saltwater tank that's 9 months old. It has 20 lbs live rock with coralline algae of all colors growing very well. <Good> I have a Coralife Aqualite lights (2x65W, 10000K and Blue Actinic). I have one clown and a red-striped blenny, 10 Astrea snails, 10 blue-legged hermits, 2 common hermits, a big, black striped brittle star (6in spread out - disk the size of a quarter), a few tiny brittle stars, and some random brittle worms and other kind of worms. I have some nice green star polyps that are propagating nicely, some Zoanthids? (soft coral polyps), Sargasso, green Caulerpa, and red fern algae stuff. All of these are relatively small. I have a powerhead and a hang-on-the-back-BioWheel-filter system (Marineland), and I have two airstones. pH is right around 7.9-8.1. I do not have a way of testing anything else, so this might be my problem. Two weeks ago I stupidly added a multivitamin to my tank on the suggestion from a website. Several days later, the first of my three peppermint shrimp died, then the next day the second, followed by a brittle worm. The corals closed up and look kind of gangly. I changed as much water as possible and cleaned the filters. The last shrimp hung on, but died. The corals look like they are slowly coming around but they still look bad. I think the multivitamin did it. Nothing else looks affected. Other than not adding a multivitamin EVER AGAIN, what can I do to help out my tank? Are there any problems? The brittle star spends a lot of time by the corals - is he eating them? <They are supposedly reef safe although I've read reports they may occasionally "nibble" on soft coral, but generally reef safe. As to the vitamins, any possibility you OD'd? Is this vitamin supplement one designed for marine tanks? If not, then that could be a source of the problem your having. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks in advance, <You're welcome> Armand from Georgia Vitamin B12 06/09/05 Hi, I was wondering if it is ok with any fish to have the b12 in the aquarium? << Most of the on the shelf vitamin supplements for a reef tank have Vitamin B12 in them. Bacteria is also a good source of B12. What exactly is the benefit is really hard to determine but food is the main source >> Thanks George <<No problem EricS>> Zoecon vs. Selcon Hey guys, this is my first question. <Well, there's a first time for everything.> I have a couple more but I will check back later. I have read tons of the FAQ's and it has raised and answered a lot of new questions for me. I searched Zoecon I found you always recommended Selcon or 1 other the name escapes me. I have a Purple Tang with HLLE and have been soaking the food with Zoecon. Is Selcon a better supplement? <I am not personally aware of any scientific evidence that this is the case, but there is no doubt that crew members seem to prefer Selcon. I have used Zoecon myself. No obvious ill effect. These are both HUFA supplements. There is evidence that these help with HLLE. The other product you are referring to is probably VitaChem, which is a vitamin supplement.> I realize there are other issues with HLLE but I want to start with this. Also would it be best to move him into a QT tank for treatment or leave him in the main tank. It is a 55 gallon FOWLR he is 3-4'' and the QT tank is a 10 gallon. <If no infectious/contagious process, then no need for QT. No medications in display tank. Vitamins & HUFA are OK. Other factors to consider are water quality, stressors, and actual diet. Zebrasoma tangs need lots of plant matter. You might want to consider obtaining & cultivating Gracilaria parvispora algae to feed your tang. Read more about "Tang Heaven Red" at www.ipsf.com. My Yellow Tang voraciously devours this stuff. Also there was an excellent 2-part article about HLLE in FAMA Magazine this past fall.> Thank you in advance <You're welcome. Hope this helps. Steve Allen> Walt - Difference in Vitamin Supplements - Hello to you all, I'm so confused! What is the difference between the vitamin supplements (such as Zoe) which seem to have a more complete range of vitamins, versus the ones (such as Zoecon, Selcon, & VitaChem) which have fewer vitamins, but amino acids and omega 3's? <Well, besides the obvious... I think some mixtures are simply marketing in a bottle, the range of vitamins are broad enough for use in human food, but in fact may not all be useful to a fish. The omega 3's, HUFAs (those are the amino acids) are typically from fish origin so they are actually quite useful.> I want one to add one to a mash that I'm making for my corals. <I'd skip this for the corals - just put some iodine in the food mix.> And what about for my fish food recipes? <I do add vitamins to my fish food... I've used Selcon, VitaChem, and Garlic Elixir which is actually more about the vitamins than the garlic.> Should I use the same additive?? <You could but really I'd skip the vitamins for the corals. They need other stuff - calcium, iodine, etc.> Thanks so much for your time! ... Gina <Cheers, J -- > - Get a Clue! - Jason: Just an FYI. HUFA stands for Highly-Unsaturated Fatty Acid. These are not amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. Steve <My bad... you caught me. Thanks for straightening me out. Cheers, J -- > - Vitamin Switch-er-oo? - hi there!!! is it okay to substitute human vitamins from fish vitamins? <I suppose that would depend on the ingredients of the vitamin supplement.> any hazards of doing this? <Absolutely, there's plenty of stuff that we put into our bodies that shouldn't be introduced into the tank. Kent makes a vitamin supplement called Zoe. It's pretty cheap, 100% tank safe, and comes with peace of mind! -Kevin> thanks Re: Fish Food I don't know if this is bob Fenner's site but I had a Q: In his book "the conscientious marine aquarist " on page 145 he mentions using a liquid vitamin in his homemade food recipe. Do ya all know which brand I should use? Tim. <There are a few commercial brands of liquid (aquarium, though they're the same chemicals as for humans) vitamin preparations. My favorite of ones available in the U.S. are Selcon and VitaChem. Bob Fenner> Marine-C I was reading over the Daily FAQ and I noticed this question. What jumped out at me was that he did not list pH and that he was supplementing with vitamin C. When we used the Ken Vit C product in our tank to combat HLLE in a bicolor blenny, we noticed a fairly rapid drop in kH and pH (it is ascorbic acid :-/). It might be worth testing the pH to see if it is fluctuating or just chronically low. Just a thought, Laura <Thank you for this... Vitamin C is otherwise known as Ascorbic acid... but is not really a "strong" acid, nor the amounts folks might add to marine (or even a well-buffered freshwater) system alter the pH noticeably. Surprising. Maybe the Kent product has some other acidic "carrier". Bob Fenner> Marine-C Hmmm . . . Double-checked the package (it was still hiding underneath the aquarium amidst the dust) and the only listed ingredient is ascorbic acid at a concentration of 1250 mg/oz and it recommends 1 ml/50 gallons of water. It does, however, include a warning about monitoring the pH and alkalinity. <Curious> Might be something to write the manufacturer about. It dropped our pH from 8.2 to 7.8 (the only other supplement being used at the time was straight liquid calcium). Our favorite fish guy at the LFS said that someone else had experienced a similar drop after using the same product. I might just e-mail Kent this afternoon and see what they say. Would you be interested in the reply if I get around to it? <Please do send this to us for posting. Thank you, Bob Fenner> Laura Re: Stocking a twenty long I sent an e-mail to Kent tech support asking about the reason for the drop and other ingredients besides ascorbic acid. I will forward the reply whenever I receive it. Until then, I hope it's okay if I ask a couple of questions about my own tank (the whole reason I was on your site to begin with; I need to be shot for lending out my copy of TCMA ;)). It is a 20 gal long nano-reef that has been up and running for over two years. Recently, we had some things happen and basically ignored the tank for 2 months. <Oh...> Between evaporation and Caulerpa die-off, I had a mess when I finally cleaned it up last week and we lost all inhabitants (BTA we've had for nine months, maroon clown, 3 hermits, couple of snails) except for a couple of hermits. However, everything seems to be stable now and we are planning on restocking the tank after the holidays over a course of 2-4 months. This will have given the tank 3 weeks or so to sit fallow (all water qualities are stable now) just to be safe. Here are the tank stats: Prizm skimmer, Rio powerhead (the total per hour turn over is ~13x so we will probably add another ph), JBJ compact fluorescent hood (1 65-watt actinic blue and 1 65-watt daylight), 30+ lbs. of well-seasoned LR, 2.5" LS bed, Amm: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: near 0, Temp: 81 in winter, 82 in summer, Alk: 10 dKH, Calc: 340 ppm (going up), and pH: 8.2. I would like your opinion on stocking the tank. Here is what I would eventually like to have once the calcium level has stabilized around 450 ppm (all sessile inverts will be purchased at 3" or less and traded in as they grow too large): 2-3" of fish (I want a pair of Carpenter's wrasses, <A bit too "jumpy" for such a small volume> neon gobies, or Catalina gobies <Not Lythrypnus... a coldwater species. Will attach article here> and my fiancé? wants a Firefish, so we'll see what we end up with), 6 blue-legged hermits, 6 snails (turbo, margarita, or Nerites), 3 peppermint shrimp, 1 cultured squamosa or derasa clam, <In a twenty? I wouldn't do this> 1 star polyp , 1-2 Corallimorphs, 1 Alcyoniidae or Nephtheidae, 1-2 feather dusters or Christmas tree worms, 1 Faviidae, and 1 small bunch of Halimeda (maybe). I realize this is probably too much; what do you think is most likely to cause problems or will simply not thrive in this set up? <What I have listed to leave out, I would. Bob Fenner> Thank you so much for your time and expertise. Laura Lawrence Marine-C Here is the response I received from Kent. Not very helpful. We used the recommended daily dosage for about 5 days. Did wonders for healing fins even though it did kill the pH. I replied to this e-mail and will keep you posted if I find out anything else. <Thank you. Please do> Thank you for the advice and informative article on the gobies! Of course, the Tridacna was the invert I wanted the most, but I will defer to your *much* greater experience and stick with less challenging/demanding things for the time being. <Hoping "Santa" brings you a larger system! Bob Fenner> Happy Holidays! Laura Subject: Re: Marine-C Hello Laura, No, Marine•C is simply a preserved solution of ascorbic acid; although the pH of ascorbic acid is relatively mild, we recommend on the label that it not be overdosed for reasons of pH drop. I take it you added the recommended dosage and still had this problem? Kindest regards, Chris Brightwell Marine Scientist Kent Marine, Inc. 1100 Northpoint Parkway Acworth, GA 30102 v. 770.966.5200 x-18 f. 770.966.7848 www.kentmarine.com (")}}}}}>{ For information on new Kent products, please visit our website at www.kentmarine.com Would you like a chance to allow the world to see your aquarium? If your aquarium is maintained with Kent Marine products and you would like to see it on our website, we'd love to hear from you! Include information on type of aquarium, volume, filtration, lighting, supplements used, types of plants/animals, how long you've had the system operating, a list of all Kent products used, along with photos of the aquarium (digital only, please). Due to time constraints, not every aquarium will be showcased, and all pictures submitted become the property of Kent Marine for express use on our website. Please submit all entries and inquiries to cb@kentmarine.com From: NICK LAWRENCE To: techsupport@kentmarine.com Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:49 PM Subject: Marine-C Hi, I used Marine-C in conjunction with your Liquid Reactor product and noticed a significant drop in pH (from 8.2 to 7.8 in an established marine aquarium). When I questioned someone at my local fish store, I was informed that others had had similar experiences with Marine-C. What causes such a rapid and extreme drop in pH? Is there something stronger than ascorbic acid in the product that would cause this? Thank you for your time, Laura Lawrence Knop supplements Hi Di Clams Direct is selling the supplements with their clam orders, and the question came up regarding dosing- If you are using a number of supplements, VitF, VitB, and Iron & Magnesium, how would you properly dose the system? wait an hour between product dosing? dose with all products at the same time? Please advise. Koralvit Combi is a combination supplement for all aquaria, KoralVit F is a food, all others are single supplements that will be used on demand (e. g. iodine for plenty of clams in the tank, iron for tanks with plenty of macroalgae and for increasing the coloration in stony corals, iodine and strontium for increasing the growth of stony corals). The supplements should not be mixed directly, but they all can be dosed at the same time, simultaneously or one after the other, without the risk of any chemical reaction. Best regards, Daniel Vitamins After the initial fumblings things are falling together really nicely, so I thought I'd get down to the fine tuning. I have seen a lot about vitamins for Marine fish and I was curious where it's best to get the vitamins and how best to apply them, or if they're even necessary. <I really like Boyd's Vita-Chem (a vitamin supplement) and American Marine's Selcon (a fatty acid and marine lipid food additive).> I figured all vitamins are the same, but I didn't know if the concentration of vitamins intended for human consumption was too high for fish consumption, I don't want to take any chances! I have started to use a blender mix with gelatin, it's just less than half carrots, lettuce, sometimes apples, whatever fruits/vegetable thing I have and then shrimp and bay scallops and sometimes crab if I can find it at the store, so should I still think about adding vitamins or is their diet ok? <I would go ahead and mix in some of the above mentioned enhancers. I would also cut out most of the terrestrial plants and instead use marine plants and macroalgae. Sushi Nori (available at any Asian grocery) is excellent.> I have seen some recipes with vitamins added but I don't know where to get them or how much to put in the mix. It is to be a fish-only tank and all of them will be carnivores, I just wanted to check if I should be trying something else! The new additions look healthy so far, but I intend to add a few more fish and I want to make sure I don't fill up my tank only to deprive them of necessary nutrition! Thanks for your time! Rachael <Have a lovely weekend! -Steven Pro> Bamboo shark Question (vitamins) Bob, I asked my LFS if they had any sort of shark vitamin, they suggested Kent marine essential. I read the contents and saw that it contains, Inorganic mineral salts of aluminum, boron, bromine, calcium, chromium, cobalt, copper, iodine, iron, lithium, magnesium, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, potassium, selenium, sulfur, strontium, tin, vanadium, and zinc in a base containing deionized water and EDTA. <Mmm, not what you're looking for> I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they were wrong. You will be happy to know I decided to consult with you first. I cant seem to find any shark specific vitamins or water additives, <Not necessary that they be specified for sharks... the metabolism of all vertebrates is about the same...> do you know of an chain stores that would carry this or any brand names I can call and ask for, I know of ocean nutrition Shark formula, any others? <Look for encapsulated (or make your own with store bought gelatin capsules) "baby vitamins"... and do conceal them in food items right ahead of feeding... and add a drop or two of an iodide supplement to the food. Brand not important. Bob Fenner> Thanks a lot Tom Fw: Some Input for UK WWM surfers (Brand names here/there) Hi Bob, not sure if you got this mail due to the server problems. <Didn't get thanks> Plus noticed that in the posted mail on the FAQ, Vitazin the supplement name has changed to Vitamin. Definitely a Z, not an M though who knows why... <Of all things, last night when MSN came back up, the spellchecker changed it to an "m" and I manually changed it back! Will alter. Bob F> Thanks Andrew Some Input for UK WWM surfers (Brand names here/there... and a new Mag!) Hi Bob thanks for the information about the Regal Tang, he is still in the QT tank and seems happier, getting more and more daring....even shows himself while he knows I am around now! <Great. All good signs> Anyway, the reason I am writing is to offer a little information which might be useless but I hope it helps someone. I am based in the UK and as with many things, the brands and types of equipment, medication etc that are sometimes discussed on WWM are not always available here. <I understand... am friends with folks in the trade and hobby there, elsewhere... A real challenge to try and stay abreast of products> One such thing is Selcon which I couldn't find anywhere, what I did find however was that a product called Vitamin which is available from Waterlife remedies. This is a vitamin and amino acids blend meant for fish which is supposed to be added to the water on a weekly basis (or something like that) however it would seem to be the perfect(?) thing to soak frozen/dried foods in prior to feeding. I have been using it for around 2 months now and the fish do seem a little more colourful for it. <Yes... this is a very similar product to Selcon> This can be bought from http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk who offer great discounts on dried goods of allsorts or even most LFS seem to stock the Waterlife products. <Ah, good. Will post this note in various places on WWM for reference> Secondly is a magazine which is the first dedicated Marine magazine in the UK ever. It is a bi-monthly production which is named Marine World, an excellent magazine full of interesting articles written by many different amateurs and professionals alike. I would recommend anyone to at least buy one copy (most Marine oriented LFS stock it now I think) or subscribe to it, the telephone number for subscriptions is 01254 238380 and it only costs ?16.95 per year (6 issues). <Mmm, do the folks putting the magazine out have a website as yet? I'd be interested in urging friends, associates to make submissions.> Anyway, that's it! Andrew <Thank you for the input, lead. Bob Fenner> Tangs/HLLE I have a blue regal and a yellow eyed tang in two different aquariums, both have had HLLE for quite some time now. I have asked many different people on how to help clear this up and have gotten a variety of answers, most stating water quality, diet, live rock, electrical current in the water and vitamins. <many theories yes... none definitive. Diet is at least contributory... electricity is a weak argument. Live rock with lush macroalgae is clearly a help. Natural sunlight is perhaps the best solution of all> I have tried just about everything I've been told to help clear them up. The blue regal has shown some improvement, however the yellow eyed has gotten much worse. (All of my other fish are in excellent health) They are both very healthy looking otherwise and are veracious eaters. <what kind of diet?> I saw on your Q & A page about the use of baby vitamins, iodide and vitamin prep s. I have never heard this, what dosage would you use for the baby vitamins? I have 90 and 70 gallon tank. As for the iodide and vitamin prep s, I'm not sure what they are, where they can be found or what dosage to use. Is there anything else besides this that I can do? I try to do the best I can for my pets and any advice will be greatly appreciated, Thanks, Georgia <the best way to dose vitamin supplements is in a prepared recipe to be ingested (much better than putting in the water). I like using the baby vitamins and Selcon (HUFA supplement... an aquarium product). Do use the Google search tool on this site and beyond to discover fish food recipes that suit your fish load (mostly herbivorous fishes). Making your own fish food is a great way to save money and offer high quality food to your fishes. Kindly> Vitamins should I be adding any type of vitamins to my water to keep the fish healthy and which kind should I add? <Please read through the Vitamin FAQs file and the Foods/Feeding/Nutrition articles and FAQs posted on the Marine Index of WetWebMedia.com. Bob Fenner> "Aquatic" Vitamins, reading WWM Bob does the vitamin b12 have to be purchased from the vet or is their other sources? <Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/vitaminmarfaqs.htm You'd do well to use the Google search tool on WWM. Bob Fenner> Vitamins, which do you prefer? Hi Bob, quick question: <I will give you a quick answer then.> Which do you feel is better, Vita-Chem or Selcon? <These are both wonderful products that are significantly different. I use both.> I've been using the former and am wondering about Selcon. <Selcon has some vitamins, but is primarily a supplement for unsaturated fatty acids. Vita-Chem is vitamins.> Best regards, Manuel Alvarez <You too, Steven Pro> Shark vitamins Bob, Hey, long time no e-mail. Everything must be working (and for the most part, it is)! Read in Scott Michael's book about a pellet vitamin recommended for sharks. I think it's made by Purina. Do you know anything about it? Do you know where to acquire it? Is the a Web site? <Do know about administering vitamins to sharks... very common in public aquariums. Don't use Purina products. Sure whoever owns them now do have a website... recently bought out> Right now, I soak my sharks food with a few drops of Zoe and Zoecon. He looks great, but I have a few patches of the red, velvety-looking algae forming on the top layer of sand. I think I read somewhere on your site that this particular algae can be caused by the vitamins in the water. The algae is very photosensitive - it goes away almost completely overnight only to reestablish the next day. It's also more prevalent on the side of the tank that faces the window (thereby receiving additional ambient light) than the side that faces an interior wall. <Yes... a transient BGA/Cyanobacteria colony... increase RedOx and it will disappear> I've tried to combat it by directing more water flow directly at the sand bed. It's helped some, and it'll probably do better if/when I can upgrade that particular pump from 800gph to something in the 1,000 ? 1,200gph range. But I was also thinking the pellet vitamins would direct more nutrition directly into the fish and less to float randomly around the aquarium feeding algae. My shark is about 18? long, and not exactly what you'd call a picky eater, so I thought the pellet vitamin might be a good option. <Yes... you can "sneak" other animal vitamins into its food... I would secure these from your/a veterinarian> Also, any other suggestions regarding the algae would be greatly appreciated. J.D. Hill <Be chatting. Bob Fenner> Re: Baby Vitamin Administration >How do I know how much of this to give them? Should I treat the food >with >the same amount as listed for an infant? ><<Hmm, a "few drops" total (irrespective of food amount, size of >system) >will be sufficient and no problem...>> Ok, I have the baby vitamins:) However, you neglect to mention how often I should add these few drops? <You can add to the food daily (soak for ten-fifteen minutes) or directly to the water about once a week... very safe> Thanks again:) cj. C.J. Moody CASA Kitsap County Juvenile Court Services <Is this the same town with the Kitsap County Aquarium Society? I used to "scan" your periodical back in the seventies for the local SDTFS... Bob Fenner> Re: Cichlid i.d., Vitamins, Iodide/ine >>1 random
cichlid [about the size of a convict] >I would like to figure out
what this cichlid is. ><Oh yes: fishbase.org The family cichlid
is quite large... maybe >start >with Spilurum, the various
re-do's of the genus Cichlasoma... and a >very >large
pot of tea/coffee (to stay up late). Have fun.> *Thank You*!! I may
well find out what she is with this:) <<Yes... a long, but fun
search>> ><The same causative mechanism/s exist in both
marine and >freshwater... >lack of essential nutrients>
Can I overdose them on vitamins? <<Yes, this is possible... not
practically though...>> ><There are prep.s that are
made/labeled for fishes et al. aquatics, >but >the
compounds involved are the same as for Tetrapods (like you and
>me), so >"baby vitamins" (liquids) will do... Do you
mean that I can actually buy baby vitamins for human babies and use
them?? <<Yes, the actual molecules are identical>> > or
pet-fish ones like Micro-Vit, Selcon... Add these to the food a
>few >minutes before offering.> Yesterday I bought something
called Hex-a-Vital, and it is a vitamin product that specifies
treatment for HLLE. I can see a difference in one of them, but the
other still looks fairly nasty. <<This "curing process"
takes weeks to months generally. Be patient>> In this product is
A, D3, C, E, Calcium Phosphorous and Calcium Carbonate. There is no
iodine. <<I would find a source and apply it. Lugol's
Solution will do, potassium iodide would be better>> However, I
know that table salt does have iodine in it. If I were to put a few
teaspoons of table salt in there, would this be a bad thing or a good
thing? <<Better than nothing>> I have always understood
that iodine will kill fish, which is why one should use rock or
aquarium salt. <<Hmm, much to say here... Iodine (the element) is
indeed toxic... Iodide (same element, different valence state) is a way
to supply this essential nutrient... not toxic in small
concentrations>> ><Me too... do try the vitamins... they
can/will effect a reversal at >this >point. Bob Fenner>
I can tell there is an improvement. You are a wonderful person, taking
the time to work with me on this. Thank you so very much. cj. C.J.
Moody <You are welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> Chromis viridis - blindness Hi Bob, Thank you for your prompt and informative reply. I will take your advice and begin adding vitamin/iodide supplements to their food starting tomorrow. <Many folks have been astounded at the positive results of such application...> I have recently altered how I feed them, so I imagine that the cause is indeed due to a nutritional deficiency. This is unfortunate, and certainly unintentional, as I was following someone else's advice to wean them down from the 3-5 feedings per day to only a single feeding. Their argument, which still makes perfect sense to me, was that because the Chromis are in a reef tank which has a very healthy population of copepods/amphipods that they should be able to find quite enough to eat. Perhaps I was trying to wean them too quickly? <Very possible. Many fishes are apparently much larger "creatures of habit" than folks presume.> Again, thank you for your assistance! You'll be the proverbial "first-to-know" if the treatment works. <Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner> Best, Steve Vitamin overdose? Hi there, Good day. Is it possible to
overdose on vitamin enrichment products such as Zoecon and Selcon?
Thanks, again. Chia <Absolutely speaking, yes, this is possible...
most of the vitamin preparations have some of the fat soluble vitamins
(A, D, E) that can be overdosed especially... but this is not a
practical problem... it would take many times the recommended
administration to overdose a system. Bob Fenner> Re: My fish (vitamin prep. administration) Bob, an update. I treated the queen angel and the copperband with copper sulfate (5drops in 4 gallons of water pulled from the aquarium) by letting them swim in a solution for about 30-45min. They are clear as a bell now, no clouding in the eye and or scratching going on. They are active and eating well. I have done two 5 gallon water changes as well. 1/week. <Very good news. Congratulations on your success> You recommend a vitamin prep. ? which do you use and how do you administer? <Per the manufacturer's directions... a few drops on foods to be offered a few minutes ahead of offering (no need to be any less vague here). Bob Fenner> Thanks, Michael Re: fish health/disease Mr. Fenner, Hello again! I managed to
get 5.5# of cured LR which contained green, red, purple, pink coralline
and a red hairy algae ($4.5/#). The fish love it and so do I.
<Ahh, very good> I have a 55gal so I figured this was a good
amount to add at one time. I hope to add another 5.5# ASAP. How long do
you think it will take to cycle? <A few days, perhaps a week>
Also, should I expect the coralline to die off during cycling?
<Not necessarily... if you have enough calcium, alkalinity... likely
no die-off that's appreciable> I don't test for ca/Sr/mg and
I have a total of 70w of fluorescent lighting (40w 20k day + 2*15w
50/50 blue/day) running 12hours. Also, no Selcon anywhere.
<What? Check with the e-tailers listed on the www.WetWebMedia.com
Links pages... this is a great product sold by most all outlets...>
I purchased "homebrew" algae paste (to soak/supplement food)
and Seachem Iodide. Iodide directions say to add 5ml every other day
directly to the tank. Do you think this is acceptable/beneficial?
<Yes> As far as the heater goes, should I hold off? Do you think
that raising the temp might encourage the fin rot on the angel?
<More discourage with everything else improved, steady...> Thanks
for your input. Gratefully, Jason Lockhart (LR junkie-in-the-making)
<Bob Fenner, already gone> |
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