New tank syndrome and fin rot in Betta... No reading, mis-using WWM  9/11/09
Hi , I bought my Betta about 4 weeks ago. He is in a 2.5 gal tank. The tank came with a filter but was too strong for my Betta. I changed to a sponge filter and had the filter for about 2 weeks.
<Good move>
I started to notice a strong ammonia smell coming from the tank and noticed that my betas tailfin
was starting to look shredded and transparent near the tips.
<You could smell ammonia?! Any present is toxic, damaging>
I was having my water tested weekly at Petsmart where I purchased my fish.
The ammonia was borderline
<See above... read on WWM...>
but I knew that the tank was still cycling.
<Needs to be done w/o aquatic life present>
One week later, my betas fins were getting worse. I decided to take out my sponge filter from advice from a petstore and replace it with a whisper filter. they told me that would improve my water conditions, along with doing partial water changes. Now I fear that I made a big mistake by removing my sponge filter. I know that it was probably cycling but I didn't want to lose my fish to poor water quality. I have done small water changes over the past two days and added some aquarium salt. Just yesterday I took out my carbon from my filter and started treating my fish with Bettafix (more advice from the petstore.)
<This material's as useful as Pinesol... Not suggested... Had you followed directions, searched WWM before writing...>>
My Betta still is acting fine but I fear that the fin rot with eventually kill him. I have gotten so many mixed reviews that I don't know which way to go.
<... Read what we have here... WWM is a growing reservoir of QUALIFIED factual input>
I have also bought a heater to keep my temp. from fluctuating. I have not installed it yet. The heater that I
bought keeps the tank at a constant 78 degrees. My tank is currently at 72 degrees.
<Too low>
Will this stress him more when his temp suddenly climbs to 78 degrees?
<No; less>
Should I continue treating him with the Bettafix or will doing a partial water changes with aquarium salt cure the Finrot?
<Likely the latter>
I'm afraid that not using a carbon filter for a week while treating him with Bettafix will make the water quality even worse.
<I agree>
I have read mixed reviews about this product. Also, will I have to cycle the tank again after treating with
the Bettafix?
<Is possible>
I understand the cycling process, but I don't know how to avoid losing fish to disease and ammonia poisoning until the tank cycles.
<A matter of having system/s cycled ahead of livestocking mostly>
Will daily partial water changes keep the fish healthy while the tank cycles?
<Not likely>
If so how often and how much water do I replace.
<... this is all covered over and over...>
I condition the water and add aquarium salt to each water change. I also just bought a five gallon tank
with a BioWheel and carbon filter.
<Ahh! Much better>
It has been set up for a week and I just added a Betta to that tank today.
<... w/o it having cycled? No!>
I don't want to make the same mistake with him.
<You already have>
Can you tell me how to get through the cycling process with this fish without running into the same problem.
<Read on WWM re...>
I am hoping that I can fix the Finrot with my other fish before it gets too far advanced. Please help!!
<Help yourself... tens of thousands of folks use our site daily>
I am very attached to my little buddy and do not want to lose him. I also do not want to put my other Betta that I bought today through the same misery.
Thanks, Stacy
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Fish system problem, FW... env.   9/6/09
Thanks for the info. I added oxygen and changed the conditioner.
<Ah, good... Please do report back your observations re incidental mortality, behavior... esp. of the Loaches and Balas>
We will see what the next shipment brings. Should I attempt to eradicate the mycobacterium form the system?
<Mmm, how would you do this? This genus of bacteria is pretty much omnipresent in aquatic biological systems... Only becoming pathogenic under "bad conditions"... Please read here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_2/mycobactera.htm
and peruse the files linked at bottom>
That would be quite a challenge. Since you seem to have some experience with this type of system, do you think there is anything I can do to improve the overall system?
<There is indeed... more circulation and aeration (added per tank) are very good first steps. Changing out the Rainbow/Pentair UVs for something like Vecton units is also excellent... Pulling the plastic biomedia, adding filter bags (that will have to be serviced daily... switched out for rotating/cleaned ones... on the discharges fed to the sumps... Monitoring nitrates in these systems... doing what can be done... at most probably changing out large volumes of water... to keep NO3 below 20ppm... Perhaps adding a contactor (likely simply a carbon type) on the source water to treat ahead of dumping into the systems>
I read somewhere about adding liquid vitamins to the water. Do you think this might help?
<In freshwater, minimally. FW animals don't "drink" their environment (unlike the majority of marines)... so material/s added to their water that are intended to get inside them do little good>
I am stuck with this system, and anything I can do to improve it would be a good step forward. Thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it.
Virginia
<Let us indeed keep conversing Virginia. I can and will help you, your system, efforts to improve the lives of the organisms in your care. Bob Fenner>

... FW... overstocked... something re saving...    9/2/09
We have a 55 or 75 (not sure exactly what size it is, I have been told it's both sizes by different people) gallon tank at the school. It currently has the following cichlid fish: 2 Oscars, 1 Midas, 1 Red Devil, 2 jack
Dempseys, 2 Zebra Convicts, 6 Pink Convicts, 2 Jewel Cichlids, 3 Gold fish, 1 Blood Parrot, 2 algae eaters (look like Plecos), and 3 other smaller fish (2 look like small angel fish and one looks like a miniature shark). What should I do to save the fish in this tank?
<What do you mean "save"? What's the particular problem? Assuming these fish are adults, then you're dramatically overstocked, and you do need to thin your livestock list a bit. You want to avoid larger fish eating smaller fish -- this is obviously a bad thing for the smaller fish, but it's also a good way to make your bigger fish sick, since things like farmed fish (including "feeder fish") often contain parasites or chemicals
such as thiaminase that cause problems. Cheers, Neale.>

A strange happenstance or two: FW Fish Deaths and disappearances. Likely Overcrowding\Aggression\Water Quality 8/19/2009
Hi Ladies & Gentlemen
<Hi Mike.>
Hopefully you may be able to assist where all others have, apparently failed, including myself.
<We shall certainly give our best effort.>
After reading hundreds of lines of search results, 50% of which had no relevance to my question, I finally saw a shining star in the east; well I live in Norfolk (UK) and that's pretty eastish! and stumbled across your website. You did not have the answer to my question but you seem a pretty knowledgeable crew, made up I guess, from people who do the job (Keep Fish), rather than sell the product?
<Correct.>
I apologise in advance for any strange spelling you may encounter but assure you it is the correct (English) spelling.
<'tis not an issue, I was a guest at several RAF stations a number of years back myself., and I spell the colour grey rather than gray>
And I am old enough to have taken and passed my 11+ exams, before the Beatles had sold a record! Only teasing guys, I really do need a little advice, guidance please?
<Certainly.>
I am a new keeper, having had the tank for just 4 months now. I have an 80 Litre Tropical Freshwater Tank (Approx 17.5 gallons) that is gravel base, planted quite heavily, a mixture of natural and artificial stock. I have an internal water pump and filter (Separate changeable media - Juwel), heater(Temp stable at 79F - 26C) , an Air stone, bogwood and stone accoutrements. I set the tank up and left it for two weeks, I then introduced 4 silvertips and some live bacteria, left it two weeks, had the water tested at the aquarist shop and added a few guppies, left it a further week. I had the water retested and then slowly, over the next few weeks, gradually added more fish.
<I think I see a problem already. 80 liters isn't exceptionally large. If I may also suggest, I would purchase your own test kits rather than have to rely on a shop to do them for you.>
My problem is I am losing fish, all species and over a span of 1 to 2 months. When I say lose I mean disappear.
<It is the fish law of anti-matter, a 1 inch fish can vanish in a 1 gallon fish bowl with nary a trace it was ever there. Kidding aside, do you have a cover on the tank, if so, are there any openings big enough that a fish could jump out?>
<Some fish can and will "carpet surf" and wind up behind he tank, or under the stand. If you have any other animals in the house (cat or dog), they will clean up the bodies very quickly. Fish will cannibalize any corpses as well - sometimes quickly, but yes, there should be some remains left over. Have you looked under the plants, under the filter intake, and in the filter itself?>
The original tank setup, after everything had settled down was, two black angels, 5 silvertips, 5 guppies,
2 Corydoras. Over time I have lost the two angels, 3 silvertips and 3 guppies. Of all of them I have only ever found 2 bodies. The fish seem to just fade away. I understand that some of the stock I have will strip dead bodies fairly quickly but I would expect to see something remaining sometime?
<Ah ha, I think I see the problem.>
This weekend, after having the water re tested, I bought 3 snakeskin mollies to top up the tank.
<Two issues here, again, please purchase your own test kits, Actual test values would be very helpful here, or may be the 'smoking gun'. I know your shop say the tests are 'ok', but in truth, here are the minimum acceptable values - anything other than this is not ok:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: < 30 ppm., lower if you have mollies.
pH: Varies depending on the species of fish. Have a read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm >
You see, Mollies do very poorly in a FW tank, despite every pet store in existence claim to the contrary. Mollies are actually a brackish water fish. I have two of them in my marine tank.>
Have a read here about them:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm >
We had all 5 Monday morning, this morning I have lost one. We have rooted amongst the plants but cannot see the body anywhere. I also had two Silver dollars, one I had to destroy last night as something and I don't think it is fin rot, had eaten the fins and the poor creature was struggling to swim. Today, it's partner is dashing around the tank like a demented dervish bumping into things and doesn't seem to be able to rest. They have always been the most laid back fish in the tank, except
at feeding time!
<Based upon your information, I am suspecting that you are suffering from two different problems:
1. You tank is overcrowded. Overcrowding can cause aggression in fish that would get along in a larger aquarium..
2. I suspect that because your tank is overcrowded, your water quality is suffering for it. Have a read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/toxictk.htm >
The current stock is and I apologise I don't know the Latin names;
<No worries.>
5 Fantail Guppies
3 Mollies + 5 babies (Don't know where they came from, well I know about the birds and bees, but they don't have any characteristics of the only male Mollie which is black, while the mother is white and the fry are all white?)
<If there is a female molly, and she has been in a tank with a male, it is best to just assume she is pregnant..>
2 Silvertip Tetra's
2 Penguin Fish
2 Peppered Corydoras
1 Silver Dollar
<Silver dollars are inappropriate for a tank of this size, silver dollars get large - 15+ cm when fully grown. They will also devour any real plants in your system, and can become aggressive, perhaps enticing smaller fish to jump...>
I do 15 to 25% water change every week, vacuum weekly and wash the filters(in the removed aquarium water) on a rotational basis. I check the water quality with a water test kit every couple of weeks. I recently had the water tested at a reputable aquarium / vivarium stockist who declared it
was as good as they have seen. I feed once a day with flakes and every Friday supplement with dried bloodworm.
<Ahh, You have a test kit - what are the actual values?>
Can you think of anything I am doing wrong? I have asked at both the fish shops I use and both say I have done everything correct and am still doing everything properly. They have tendered various solutions, none of which required me to buy anything expensive from them. At one shop two members of staff chatted with me for over half an hour asking pertinent questions without any sales pitch so I tend to think they were giving the best advice they could?
<I would agree.>
As I said previously I have searched and read endless pages on line, some of which bore no relation to my question and just exhorted me to buy some weird and wonderful cure all magic elixir.
<All too common I'm afraid.>
Now I have come to the Masters, hopefully, in real expectation you can assist a very frustrated late comer to fish keeping; no pressure guys.
<Hehehe. Do check the things I suggested above. Do write back with any additional information.>
Best Regards
<My pleasure.>
Mike
<MikeV>

Abstract Questions from a Freshwater Aquarist   7/31/09
Hello.
<Hi,>
I just have a couple of questions that I couldn't seem to place under the same category (hence the name). Okay, my first question is can ph kill fish?
<Yes. Rapid changes alters blood pH, and this turn affects the ability of the blood to carry oxygen and carbon dioxide around the body. The wrong pH will severely stress, eventually kill, those fish adapted to particular pH levels. A Rift Valley cichlid for example will not do well at pH 6, and will become much more prone to opportunistic infections than otherwise.>
I recently bought 5 goldfish for my aquarium, I set the bags in the water for 15 minutes, then netted the fish and put them in my aquarium. Three hours later (literally) they all died. I checked my water chemistry soon
after, and the only offending thing I could see was a ph below the charts (anywhere from 5-5.4, judging by the color) Nitrate: 40 Nitrite: 0 Ammonia: 45-ish Hardness: Moderate Temperature: about 76 at time of death.
<Goldfish will tolerate pH values across a broad range, at least for a while, but they do best at basic pH levels between 7 and 8. If your pH really was as low as 5, then [a] biological filtration wouldn't be working,
and [b] that low pH could easily have shocked or killed the Goldfish outright.>
My second question: are store-bought fancy guppies of poor (I mean very poor) quality?
<Can be. Essentially the question is the same as this: which are hardier and more long lived, pedigree dogs or mongrels? The answer is of course mongrels, which, on average, consistently outlive their pedigree cousins.
Guppy breeders select in favour of certain traits, such as tails of a certain length, or particular patterns on the body. But they don't select in favour of hardiness or longevity By contrast, evolution selects in favour of "fitness", the ability to survive and breed. There's actually good experimental evidence that supports this. Fancy Guppies cannot be acclimated to living in seawater, whereas wild Guppies and "feeder" Guppies
both can. In other words, when breeders create Fancy Guppies, they seem to throw away some of the genes that made Guppies hardy in the first place. Now, there are differences in quality of Guppies just as there are differences in the quality of pedigree dogs. The Guppies you buy from a pet store were bred to a price, not a quality, and often fish farms use antibiotics to "support" their fish so that they can stock lots of them in breeding ponds without being too worried about healthcare. By contrast, breeders at fish clubs will be taking more care, selecting the best fish, and looking after each group of fish carefully, as a labour of love. None of this gets away from the fact that Fancy Strains are often very inbred, with father-daughter, mother-son crosses being very common, so even under the best of circumstances, Fancy Guppies are genetically "weak". But there is a difference between good quality fish and mass produced fish.>
I've heard that the guppy is supposed to be the easiest and most enjoyable fish in the hobby, and yet I've also had experience (and read on other sites) that suggests otherwise, mostly due to inbreeding and the breeders only selling low-quality fish to pet stores.
<Pretty much. Wild Guppies are astonishingly adaptable, and that's why they became popular in the first place. Fancy Guppies, like fancy varieties of most aquarium fish, are much less adaptable.>
My third question is if I breed natural (feeder) guppies with Fancy guppies, will (some of) the fry be fancy and hardy?
<No; they'll all be "feeder" Guppies, or at least, mongrel Guppies with a mish-mash of colours. To my eyes, such Guppies are lovely, resembling the wild-type fish, which are wonderfully variable. The old name for Guppies, Millionsfish, referred to the fact that there were so many of them, and every one was different.>
My last question is that I've heard (on this site and others) that Hornwort is an amazing and under-appreciated plant. That it eats up Nitrates and Ammonia, looks good, reduces water hardness, sucks up CO2, puts in O2, increases water ph, and is easy to keep. How many (if any) of those things are true?
<Like high-fibre breakfast cereals, while it certain does some good, it isn't a magic bullet that will cure all life's ills! Hornwort, or equivalent floating plants such as Floating/Indian Fern or Amazon Frogbit, are great additions to tanks with livebearers. Your Guppies will nibble at them directly, and also peck away at algae growing on the roots. Yes, they absorb some nitrate (and even ammonia) at a rate depending on light
intensity (i.e., growth rate) and yes, floating plants provide excellent hiding places for newborn fry. I strongly recommend them, but I would expect them to replace your standard protocols for water quality and water
chemistry management.>
I'm looking for a beneficial plant to re-place my withering ones (might help those plants if I turned off/down my air-stones), and then stumbled across the Hornwort.
<Hornwort does need strong lighting at tropical temperatures. It's less demanding in coldwater tanks and ponds. In tropical tanks, sometimes wastes away if the lighting is poor to moderate. Indian Fern and Amazon Frogbit are, in my experience, a bit more forgiving.>
Hope I wasn't any trouble!
-Koda
<Cheers, Neale.>

Effects of Gill Curl -- to Neale  (RMF, can you add anything?)   7/30/09
Hello Neale!
Happy belated birthday!
<Thank you! But having turner 38, I'm not really sure I want to be reminded...>
I have been conversing with platytudes on the message board, and she suggested that I contact you with some questions I have about my Red-Tailed Catfish's gill curl.
<I see.>
Guido, my RTC, lives in a 1000 gallon indoor pond with two Red Belly Pacu.
<Sounds great!>
He is about 20 inches, or maybe 22 inches, long. Originally, I had only planned on one Pacu, but after seeing him try to school with the catfish, I thought he could use a friend. The two do interact quite a bit, so I'm glad I did add the second one.
<Indeed, Pacu do seem fairly sociable, but watch them: they can be unpredictable, and have incredibly strong jaws.>
My question, though, is about Guido and his gill curl. I have researched the internet on gill curl, and am aware of its supposed causes, none of which I believe Guido has been exposed to, as he has always had plenty of room, a varied diet, and good water quality, and has never eaten a feeder, but alas, he began showing signs at about eight inches long.
<Right. As you've correctly established, Gill Curl is usually associated with catfish exposed to stressful conditions, typically overcrowding and/or poor water quality. It is almost entirely a problem seen with big fish, and presumably these are the ones most likely to be kept in tanks without enough space or oxygen. I'm not sure I've read anything convincing about its causes; hypothesis vary from bacterial infections of the gill membrane through to lack of exercise because the fish isn't moving much! Cures vary from surgery to remove the curled tissues (not something I'd recommend without going to veterinary college first) through to simply adding salt to the water to see if that helps. It should be noted that large Pimelodidae have quite a good tolerance for brackish water, so adding a little salt, 1-3 grammes per litre say, across the short term wouldn't do much harm. But really, I've not come across anything convincing in terms of precise causes
or cures, simply that Gill Curl usually appears in fish that are kept in limited space and, if caught early, can go away by itself. Do review water quality, and even if you have the 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and below 20 mg/l nitrate recommended for Red-tail Cats, do also reflect on water circulation and oxygenation. Because these catfish live at the bottom, they're especially sensitive to sluggish water currents that don't carry oxygen
down from the surface. I'd be looking at turnover rates of 10 times the volume of the tank where Red-tail Cats are concerned to match their riverine habitats. If you already have an adequate filter, then a pond pump like that used to drive a fountain might be just the thing to safely add some more current at the other end of the pool. Do also review temperature; the big Pims almost to a man (fish) like things a little on the cool side; after all, they inhabit the deep, shady parts of rivers rather than shallow swamps or streams where the sunlight can warm the water. So, you're aiming for something in the 22-24 degrees C bracket (72-75 degrees F). Anything warmer will reduce the amount of oxygen in the water while simultaneously raising the metabolic rate of the catfish, a combination you definitely don't want. Your Pacu, by the way, won't object to slightly cooler water either.>
The little bit of information I find about its effects seem widely varied.
I have read that it causes frequent bacterial infections, chronic pain for the fish, and early death. In any case, Guido acts completely normal, and eats well, and grows, grows, grows, so I don't think he currently suffers
any ill effects from his condition.
<The problem is that it can get worse, because in theory, Gill Curl obstructs ventilation of the gills, making breathing difficult.>
However, I'd like to know your opinion on what effects this condition might have on him, both now and in the future.
<Since it's all speculative so far as hobbyist discussion goes, and none of my fish health books say anything about the disease, this would be one of those times locating a fish-friendly vet would make sense.>
For example, should I be on the lookout for bacterial infection, or possibly treating every now and then just in case?
<I'm not a huge fan of "treating just in case". More often than not, you're wasting money, and potentially, you're poisoning your fish. Better to wait until you have a positive ID on a problem, and then pick your medication. On the other hand, given good conditions, many problems can fix themselves, and the use of things like salt and Epsom salt carry little/no risk to even delicate fish, so can be used proactively without too much guilt.>
I thank you for your help on this. Additionally, I very much enjoyed both of your recent articles; one, on the community aquarium, and the other, on Corydoras.
<The ones in Aquarium Fish magazine? Glad you enjoyed!>
Thanks for what you do!
--Melinda
<Cheers, Neale.>
<<Neale, Melinda... I concur with what Neale has written. I would NOT attempt to but away the deformity of the gill covers, NOR treat the water. BobF>>

Re: Effects of Gill Curl -- to Neale (RMF, can you add anything?), pump sel.  7/30/09
Hello Neale--
Thank you so much for your quick reply!
<My pleasure.>
The filter of the pond is built-in, with about 7 ft by 1.5 ft by 3 ft of plastic spaghetti/filter pad stuff. We use pond pumps to run water over the wall, under the pads, and then it comes back up, creating a waterfall.
Right now, we only run pumps which equal about 4000 gallons per hour, which I know will not be enough in time, but we're up to three pumps!
<Well, that's the problem with huge tanks!>
What are some large pumps that you can suggest? I'd love to run only two, and still filter 10x per hour.
<Honestly, this is well outside my range of expertise; for one thing, I've never had a tank this big, and for another, my experience of fishkeeping is largely in the UK, where the manufacturers are different. Do read Bob's piece of pumps for ponds, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pondsubwebindex/pdpumps.htm
The linked articles and FAQs may help, too. If you want to write/send a separate message for Bob, I can make sure he looks at it and offers some hardware recommendations, if relevant.>
The pond has its own breaker, but another can be installed if the large pumps require it. Right now all of our pumps are Tetra Pond. The temperature does stay quite cool in the pond, ranging from 70 to 78, depending if the air conditioner is on, or not. There are two large airstones with TetraTec Deep Water Air pumps. I was able to locate a fish vet in my area, and am going to speak with him when he is in the office.
<Ah, probably the best thing all around.>
Thank you for your advice. I want to do the best for Guido; he really is a wonderful fish, and we are quite attached to him (obviously, this pond wasn't in our house before... it's all for him!). Thanks again.
--Melinda
<Good luck to you both! Neale.>
<<Mmm, the Sequence line of pumps (variously re-labeled and sold... but all with Baldor motors) is still exemplary for these sorts of applications (lower pressure, higher volume, low cost of operation, quiet...). BobF>>

My fish died last night ... culprit might be pH? – 07/28/09
29 gallon. 6 weeks old. Have been using Kordon products. Novaqua+ for new water. In the beginning I started with dry "Amquel plus buffers". I misunderstood, thinking it was "Amquel+ and buffers". 3 weeks ago I switched to regular Amquel+. I put it in weekly or so. Everything seemed fine.
<Whilst maintaining a steady pH is important, it is usually a bad idea to do this by adding pH buffers. Why? Because aquaria have a background tendency to acidify anyway, so even if you tweak the pH of a bucket of water one way or another, that may not prevent acidification in between water changes. Ideally, choose fish suited to your local water chemistry.
If you must, add a Rift Valley cichlid salt mix at a half- or full-dose to make water that is moderately to very hard, depending on your needs. For most community fishkeeping, moderately to very hard water is the optimal, since high levels of carbonate hardness inhibit pH changes. Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
There's a Rift Valley cichlid salt recipe there, and it's a lot cheaper and easier to use than buffering potions.>
Got ich about 10 days ago. Started with Kordon Ich Attack. Seemed to work in a couple days. Lost 2 Cory cats & 1 platy. The 2 Corys were floating up to the surface. They struggled but just couldn't stay near the bottom.
They kept floating up. Same problem I had with the first 2 Corys. Then switched to Rid Ich+ 4 days ago (took out the carbon). When I noticed clear jelly like stuff collecting around the base of a couple artificial plants. Seemed like part of the ich or fungus. Figured I needed something stronger. Also because Rid Ich+ mentions ok for Corys, figured it might be less of a problem. Everyone seemed to be doing ok.
<Catfish react to certain copper- and formalin-based medications, and while Brand X might be safe under one set of conditions, if there's something else going on in the tank stressing them, that medication could cause harm.
By default, choose the heat/salt method when treating Ick in tanks with catfish, loaches, and other sensitive species.>
Testing all along has shown ammonia, NO2 & NO3 zero or very close. With the Amquel+ I figured. The only problem has been the ph. My municipal tap water (Connecticut) tests @ 7.2. But, the tank is 6.0. Even with water changes it barely raises.
<It sounds as if your water has little to no carbonate hardness.>
Anyway, last night I got another test kit that goes below 6.0 ph. The test indicated 5.5 I think. I read online that's too low.
<Yes.>
Less than 6.0 and the bacteria won't grow, all that.
<Oh, there certainly are bacteria that thrive in acidic conditions -- just not the filter bacteria we want!>
So it said you can raise ph by putting some sea shells in.
<Not really worthwhile.>
I put a couple in and everything was ok. One platy even hung around the sea shells. Then at the store a guy told me they have to be crushed up sea shells. So I came home and crushed them up. Leaving them in a net so they wouldn't all get mixed in.
<Hmm... solid chunks of calcium carbonate (crushed shells, crushed coral) can work, but only if placed somewhere with a strong water current, i.e., inside a canister filter or else as part of an undergravel filter.
Otherwise, there simply isn't enough water moving past the calcium carbonate to "absorb" carbonate hardness at the required rate. Furthermore, such calcium carbonate only works while it is clean: once covered with bacteria and algae, it's insulated from the water and stops working.>
Two hours later I came back because the room had a horrible sulfur (rotten egg) smell. Really strong. And every fish was dead except 3 platys. I lost 3 Danios, 5 Neons & 2 Cory cats. This am the strong sulfur smell is gone it's ack to normal pretty much.
<The sulphur could be caused by simply decay, particularly anaerobic decay.
Hydrogen sulphide is certainly toxic to fish, though almost never is it available in sufficient quantities to cause serious harm. You see, hydrogen sulphide reacts instantly with oxygen, so as soon as it bubbles out from the anaerobic pocket in the sediment where it formed, it reacts with oxygen in the water, becoming sulphur dioxide. This is why the hydrogen sulphide produced in the black, anaerobic mud in ponds doesn't kill your goldfish.
Anyway, if you smell sulphur, it's likely to imply decay, but rather than being the direct cause of death, you should be more concerned about the decay in the aquarium, and the effects that'll have on acidification and oxygen availability in the water.>
I figure it had to be those damn shells. But with < 6.0 ph I thought I better try to get it up. Figured the shells would do it slowly. Didn't put a lot in. Maybe 1/4 cup (crushed up). And what was that sulfur stink all of a sudden.
<Were the shells clean? It's a silly question really, but it is important
the shells were cleaned and didn't containing dead snails or whatever.>
Also that new test kit (dip strip type) last night showed: total hardness: 25 (scale 0-1000)
<25 what? 25 mg/l? If so, that's a trivial amount, and far too low for most fish.>
total alkalinity 0 (scale 0-300)
<Here's your problem. Right here. Zero carbonate hardness means your water has zero ability to prevent acidification.>
Ammonia, NO2 and NO3 0.0.
And again, ph under 6.0 it looked like. But the colors aren't exact so hard to tell. And these test strip types aren't too good I've heard.
<The precise pH doesn't matter. Yes, it should be around 7 to 7.5, but precisely where doesn't matter within the range so long as its steady from week to week. On the other hand, pH 6 is far too low.>
The only other thing is I had a piece of driftwood in the tank. Pretty good size. That's why I figured the ph dropped vs. the tap.
<Yes, driftwood produces tannins, and these lower pH.>
Plus in the beginning, I was thinking the Amquel with buffers might have messed up the pH. But I've probably done a dozen 20% water changes since then. Periodically & due to the Rid Ich+. And I figured the driftwood would have less of an effect over time. It's been soaked a lot. Now, barely turning the water a tea color any more. Well, hard to tell I suppose with the GREEN/BLUE Rid Ich+ in there huh! But the guy in the store said it should be fine. They prep the driftwood before they sell it.
<Even cured driftwood will lower the pH over time. It's what driftwood does, period, end of story.>
Just for grins retested the water this am (after the fish died). It's all the same except hardness looks like 75 not 25 like last night (before the fish died).
<Still too low. You're aiming for something like 100-300 mg/l, with about 200 mg/l being optimal for the widest selection of community fish.>
Any help you could give me would be appreciated. I'm thinking the shells did the deed last night. Big mistake. But can't understand why I've had two sets of Cory cats. And the same thing happened to both. They start floating up to the top and stay there. It's a struggle to get down to the bottom of the tank.
<May be insufficient water circulation, at least in part. Catfish get their oxygen from the water at the bottom of the tank, and if the water quality down there is dire, they're going to be the first fish to die.>
A couple times they got themselves pinned under some overhang. To keep down. Or they'd just float back up. Seems like they just get exhausted and die. That's why I did the shell job. I was thinking pH is the only measure off whack in my tank. Ammonia, NO2 & NO3 seem pretty good all along. I hope that made sense! Thanks!
<Do read the article mentioned earlier on. Read, digest, and if you're still stuck, write back. Don't add any more fish until you've stabilised pH from week to week, and have learned how to mix a Rift Valley salt mix such that you produce buckets of water with adequate carbonate and general hardness. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: My fish died last night ... culprit might be pH? – 07/28/09
The site you provided was incredible
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm).
<Glad you liked.>
Re the Rift Valley salt mix. It's ok to use in a freshwater tank? Sounded like it.
<Yes.>
But I got a little concerned reading the section titled, "Aquarium Salt".
When it said, "marine salt is not really a viable option...". So with freshwater would it be safer to:
1) invest in a commercially available freshwater product (if I can find one with no salt)?
<Marine salt mix is a key ingredient, and at the dosage used, won't harm freshwater fish in the least. Yes, you can buy commercial Rift Valley cichlid salt mixes, and these will work very well. But the recipe given in the article here at WWM is just as good, and costs pennies per month to use.>
2) prepare the Rift Valley mix but skip the marine salt ingredient?
(only use baking soda & Epsom salt)
<Don't skip the marine salt mix if using this recipe.>
3) mix Rift Valley as indicated. But reduce the dose to 25-33%. Plus choose soft water fishes. Not sure where to check what fishes are particularly adverse to salinity.
<You misunderstand... my point here is you can't use marine salt by itself to harden water for freshwater fish unless you know they tolerate both salinity and hardness. Mollies and Guppies for example will do perfectly well in brackish water, or even seawater, so if you live in a soft water area, one way to keep these fish successfully is to switch to a brackish water aquarium. But other hard water fish won't tolerate such conditions.
Mbuna cichlids for example don't tolerate brackish water, and are in fact made sick by it.>
Re the sulfur smell. Wow maybe you're right. The last time or two vacc'ing the gravel I was surprised what came up out of there. Pretty dark and rude looking. Maybe the cycle never got going. With that way low pH (since day 1). Vacc'ing weekly I have noticed the gravel getting skunkier. I gassed my poor little Cory's!!
<Yikes!>
Re circulation. I have a 12" bubbler buried under the gravel. And a Penguin 150 filter (whose return makes some bubbles).
<When was the last time you checked the diaphragm in the air pump? Most need this little bit of rubber changed every year or two. If you don't, they push less and less air, and your bubbler won't be doing much good.>
Maybe a canister filter would be better. This was a cheap setup.
<Well, there's certainly an argument that says one big, decent filter is better than a poky filter and an airstone. The Penguin 150 filter has a turnover of 150 gallons per hour. For small fish, turnover should be at least 4 times the volume of the tank. Since 4 x 29 = 116 gallons per hour, your Penguin filter should be adequate. But do check it's working properly, that the media selected are logical, and that you are maintaining it correctly. Specifically, make sure the media are mostly biological in nature (carbon and zeolite are largely useless in this type of tank). Clean the filter every 4-6 weeks, but remember to rinse biological media in buckets of aquarium water so you don't kill the bacteria.>
Also I've been shutting off the bubbler at night. To make it easier for the fish to sleep. I figured a less strong current to fight. Means better sleep. Maybe not.
<Not. Leave filters and air pumps running 24 hours.>
Thank you Neale. You're da best!
<Thanks!>
P.S. I didn't clean the shells. Rinsed & crushed them. Then microwaved to sterilize.
<Ah, while microwaves will *kill* bacteria and such, and organic debris, like dead, dried snails, will still be there.>
Until the towel they were inside got charred--whoops.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Novice Makes a Ton of Mistakes That May Kill Fish. Is the problem fungus? FW  7/21/2009
Hi. Great site!
<Hello and thanks.>
I really hope you can help me with some of my many problems, though you already have with a few! I’m sorry this is still so long… I've done my best to edit it, but I'm really trying to be as thorough as physically possible. It seems like I've so far done a very, very BAD job with my aquarium, mostly because I rushed into it before thinking anything through. I’m going to see the lady who runs the local pet store soon, and she has always been helpful, but I’m hoping to receive either new ideas or consolation that whatever she tells me is true. Sorry to say I’m feeling a little cynical, and overwhelmed.
<Oh.>
I’m super new to aquariums, and have a lot of questions about a “problem tank” I seem to have brought upon myself, so prepare to roll your eyes, but keep in mind that I’ve only had a beta (lived three years!) who came in his vase/glass jar, and didn’t know any of the rules except that I needed to feed them… (I know I should have researched it now, but it was a split second decision, which landed me with a 55g tank, light and filter system for $20, for my “lake fish” (his name was Herman, caught him a net myself, he was less than an inch long…) who died before I got the tank home.)
<I see.>
First of all, you should know that my tank is roughly 55g, freshwater, 20 with aquarium salt,
<Don't know what this means. "20" what? The thing with salt is you either have a brackish water aquarium, or you don't. Unless you're using salt for treating Ick, there's no need to add salt otherwise, and any amount of salt adequate for brackish water fish will eventually kill freshwater fish. There's no "middle ground". It's a binary thing, like being pregnant. You either are pregnant or you're not, there's nothing in between. Likewise you either have a brackish water aquarium with sufficient salt for those brackish water species, or you don't.>
and currently a dosage of methyl blue, pH stabilizer, and the anti-ammonia crud; all of which I am adding in accordance with the directions, and slowly, because I really don’t need any more problems with the tank.
<Why are you adding any of these? Let's review. Ammonia-remover removes ammonia from tap water; it will not, repeat, will not, remove ammonia produced by fish. So if you have some amount of ammonia in an aquarium because there are too many fish or an immature filter, adding ammonia-remove will have no useful impact. Secondly, pH stabiliser is almost always a bad idea unless you are an expert fishkeeper. A brackish water aquarium will have a stable pH because you add marine salt mix. A hard water aquarium for Malawi cichlids or livebearers will have a stable pH because you add Rift Valley salt mix (which you can make for pennies at home). The only situation where most aquarists need pH stabiliser is where soft water fish are being kept in a (typically small) soft water aquarium. Once the pH goes below 7, the chances are carbonate hardness is very low, so pH tends to drop between water changes. Unless you're doing that, using pH stabiliser is not really going to help, because you're not tackling the water chemistry problem head-on.>
I have 1 single waterfall, 1 double waterfall, a bubbler that is currently going through a curtain, and a heater, which I’m not sure I should run (the temperature is about 80F, which is ok, (I think) for cichlids, and I’m afraid of the heat fueling the fungus, if it’s cotton mouth?).
<Fish need a certain temperature to be healthy; above or below it their immune system weakens, and Fungus and Finrot become probably. For things like Malawi Cichlids, that temperature is 25 C/77 F, and anything above or below that value becomes increasingly stressful. Summertime highs a few degrees above shouldn't do any harm because the tank will cool a bit at night, but do try and avoid temperatures above 28-30 C/82-86 F for any length of time.>
I’m planning on taking out all of the gravel so I can sit it out, let it dry, bake in the sun to hopefully kill the fungus, (will that work?)
<Not really, no.>
and rewash it, and replace it when (fingers crossed!) my fish are finally healthy. I’m also going to take out the live plants and various ornaments.
<Why?>
So here is the list of fish and their ailments. I have in total seven fish and two fiddler crabs, that I have moved to another tank because they need land, and do not tolerate most fish meds as well as others. (I have 1 Green Spotted puffer, one orange African cichlid, one grey convict (who my friend is sure is some other type of cichlid, he’s grey with vertical black stripes, and shiny blue-ish green lines and dots), one I believe is a green terror, a long dark blue one with horizontal light blue stripes, and a mystery cichlid that is purple wi th darker purple vertical lines and orange fins.
<These fish are largely incompatible. The Green Spotted Puffer absolutely must be kept in brackish water; 1.005 at 25 C, around 9 grammes marine salt mix/litre is the absolute minimum for long-term care. Extended exposure to such conditions will kill the cichlids.>
All but the puffer were sold under the name cichlid with some list after them, but I can’t remember them all. All of the fish I have bought from the local PetSupermarket have passed on (and I think it was those feeder fish who brought the diseases too, they have warts, but the lady at the store assured me they were eggs… later to find the guppies are live birth! Not that it’s not my fault… but I’m going to be stubborn about it and boycott… at least until I get a quarantine tank… which, only having one fish, I didn’t know about.) I’m going to make up genders for them, because though I think I know some, I’m pretty sure most of them are wrong.
<Indeed.>
Green Spotted Puffer: Her name is Afragorica (ugly… I know, but I was trying to say something else and it stuck.) I got her from Wal-Mart (didn’t know it would be a problem… and I don’t believe it was this time. Got lucky, I guess) and haven’t had a problem until yesterday, wayyy after some of the others went downhill, even though she was among the first added to the tank. Unfortunately she now has a slimy white fungus? (like the stuff on Oink (the mystery fish’s) eye) on parts of her body and mouth. She may have a dark spot on her belly, too, but it comes and goes with the lighting, and I can’t tell if it’s there or not (if it is, it’s minor, hardly noticeable, and possibly a color marking, because it is only seen near the borders on her white belly, and does not grow.) There does not appear to be any kind of rot yet, and it’s not grainy enough to be ick. What is it?
<Fundamentally, the standard reaction of GSPs to being kept in freshwater tanks. Putting her in brackish water as outlined above should prevent the problem happening again, and treatment with an anti-Fungal should fix what she has now.>
Should methyl blue fix it?
<Methylene blue should work, yes, but in conjunction with improved environmental conditions.>
I gave her a 30 minute bath in the 10g “hospital tank” with twice the dosage (as directed… good or bad? Is methyl blue ok for scale-less fish?) and she seemed happy enough, but there seems to be little improvement, though I’ve done it twice over the course of the day. She’s eating well… though she’s disappointed because I haven’t put in much live food over the course of the last week due to the ailments, and bad water. There’s one (wart free!) feeder guppy left, and she chases it, but it’s about her size so she hasn’t managed to catch it yet.
<Do not use feeder fish.>
I’m guessing the fact that she’s still making the attempt is good. She’s been eating the flakes, and some cichlid crumbles. Where she is not infected she seems very shiny. What can I do?
<GSPs should eat a mix of seafood plus some greens. I'd recommend a bag of frozen seafood from the grocery store (cockles, mussels, squid and prawns here in England). You can also use wet frozen fish foods including lancefish, bloodworms, krill, etc. Offer cooked or tinned peas occasionally. Make the diet as varied as possible to avoid problems with thiaminase (mussels and prawns have high levels of thiaminase, and over time, this causes severe health problems.>
Orange African Cichlid: Her name is Starshine. She seems healthy, eating, and swimming normally, BUT she has developed green “eyebrows” and “half a mustache.” It’s not fuzzy, and doesn’t seem to be growing (I noticed it a week ago, but it’s too small, and I don’t ha ve a clue what it is…) Is it possibly new coloring, or is she sick? Would you like a picture? I’m pretty attached to her, and would hate to see her go, especially because it seems like it’s just starting, if it’s anything at all.
<Again, likely an environmental issue. Malawian and Central American cichlids need hard, basic water.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_2/malawian_cichlids.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/central.htm
Aim for pH 8, general hardness 15+ degrees dH, carbonate hardness 5+ degrees KH. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
There's a Rift Valley salt mix; use it! Also treat for fungus.>
Convict: His name is Moonus… No problems for now, though he did have some tail-rot just after I got him. Should I take him out and treat him separately? Can I leave him be if I take him out? He doesn’t seem to be sick at all.
<As for the Orange cichlid.>
Green Terra: I named him Oliver, because he’s an orphan fish, I adopted him from another tank because, though he’s bigger than my fish (probably two inches long), he’s very timid and was getting his behind kicked by another fish. No problems still, but I still gave him a bath. Can I take him out too?
<Aequidens rivulatus and Aequidens pulcher are widely confused, so check which you have. Adult Aequidens rivulatus can get along with Convicts rather well, given space, but Aequidens pulcher is a big, fairly peaceful community fish. Aequidens pulcher is a soft water fish by the way. Aequidens rivulatus is as well, given the choice, but does just fine in moderately hard water.>
The “big blue one:” He’s not so big as he is long, but hasn’t got a name yet. He’s very aggressive, and still likes to chase the other fish, but seems like he may have the fungus on the edges of his fins, though it’s not fuzzy or filmy like the others, and seems opaque… This has not grown or receded, though he is too fast for me to catch to put in the bath, and the “fungus” may even be faded coloring… because I’m sure if the illnesses don’t get these guys the stress I’m putting them under might. Is this possible? Or is it the fungus? Do you want a picture?
<It's all pretty generic really. Fungus and Finrot (and indeed Columnaris, called Mouth Fungus) often occur together and are caused by the same things: poor water quality and the wrong water chemistry.>
The mystery-PetSupermarket-Cichlid- Oink: Firstly, I realize that Oink is probably going to be lost, but I’d really like it if he didn’t die, because he’s quite nice when he isn’t busy being sickly. The first indicator of illness (in all of my fish), Oink began his plight two days ago, when I noticed he had an extremely cloudy eye, but it seemed to be a fuzzy film, identical to many fungus pictures, but on his eye. I am guessing it came in the night, because I didn’t see it beforehand except as “eyebrows”, (which I suspected were ich, due to the amount of itching all of my fish had been doing before I added meds… and put in an anti ich called “QuIch”) and found it early this morning covering his eye so thickly that I couldn’t see the eye through the film. Can a fish get fungus on its eye? I did a water change and added methyl blue to the tank (too much?).
<You are likely medicating without logic, and used carelessly, medications will interact with each other, or else poison the fish. Do identify the problem first, the attempt to remedy the causative factors, and finally treat -- sparingly -- using the correct, not random, medication.>
Everyone still seems fine, but the eye was still terrible, so I did some research and gave him a bath, which cleared it up so much that I thought he would be clean the next time I did (decided to give him some time between the baths though he seems to enjoy them more than he does the tank, because he does more swimming and less floating.) I gave him another bath a few hours later. Unfortunately, whatever it was grew back within five hour s, so I gave him another bath (though the recommended dose is two a day… he was looking so bad I thought he may die if I did, or if I didn’t.) I’m afraid he may lose his eye, in which case I’m lost as to what to do… Do I need to catch it, to keep the others from eating it?
<Ideally.>
Can I somehow make it easier for him to deal with his loss? (Seriously, I have been warned, but I think it may devastate me. I can’t stand thinking it’s going to happen and I can’t do anything for him.) It’s apparently a little bulgy, but, in all honesty it looks the same to me as the other, and no different than hours before. I mentioned he likes to float which brings me to the fish that Oink was meant to replace.
<Fish live just fine with one eye. I'm sure they'd like both, but they manage fine. Their lateral line system is a sort of "radar" that helps them to a degree we really can't imagine. That's why fish are perfectly happy in water so dark or murky they can't see anyway.>
I had a cichlid, who seemed fine in his PetSupermarket tank but very very ill in my own. As soon as I brought him home he began gasping (like possible gill flukes?) and spent much of his time on top of the water. He died within 24 hours, and I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him (aside from the gasping) until another one of my fish died from the same thing, eventually laying on the bottom of the tank and letting the others eat him until I pulled him out of there and put him in an empty 10 gallon my boyfriend’s brother had gotten the day of, and graciously lent me in hopes of saving his favorite fish, and is now serving as a hospital tank. He died wi thin hours, but I’m wondering if the flukes were caused by a parasite or something equally as contagious, because the other fish was extremely healthy before the new one was put in. What’s going on? How can I fix it? Is it over, or is it hiding somewhere in my tank?
<I honestly doubt a "mystery disease" is the thing here. It's all so generic that it simply screams "water quality/chemistry issues".>
Currently I am doing LOTS of water treatment, with the antifungal, the aquarium salt, and 50% water changes. Can I do anything else for them? There are (what I believe to be) actual fungus spores floating in there and I scoop those out too… I think they come off Oink’s eye… but Oliver likes to eat them, which scares the daylights outta me. Speaking of lights… on or off for fungus? I realize I messed up, and really, really, need help, and have, in fact been researching fish ailments until two in the morning three nights in a row, (once again, great site!), in addition to spending most of the day on water and fish treatments. HELP ME!
<Do really need [a] water chemistry, at minimum pH, and ideally carbonate and general hardness too; and [b] water quality, at minimum nitrite, but ammonia and nitrate useful too.>
Hoping for anything…
Kim
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
On an unrelated side note, I'm watching my friend's fish, which include a black molly, and a sunset molly. A different molly died before everyone left, and I believe it's because her bubbler is not only out of the tank, but unplugged (?) I wanted to know how long the two could stay that way...? Her tank is really small, I think probably a travel tank of about a gallon (give or take half). Should I put the bubble r in the water for a little while everyday, or leave it in?
<Mollies will die in tanks one gallon in size; really need 20+ gallons to have any chance of survival, and the water needs to be warm (around 28 C) and slightly brackish (5 grammes/litre upwards). Frankly, would put this poor fish out if its misery... it has no hope.>
She said not to worry... but they're pretty new and one already died, and the oxygen situation is looking bad. The fish are pretty sluggish, they hide and ignore food... I've put the bubbler in once, should I do it again?
<Read, have your friend read.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Novice Makes a Ton of Mistakes That May Kill Fish. Is the problem fungus? 7/21/09
Thank you very much for your help. They all seem to be much better this morning, the puffer is completely clear, and only the mystery fish seems to be having any trouble at all, but also seems to be much better. Currently the only thing in the water is methyl blue, and the chemistry seems better.
<Good news.>
I was under the impression that cichlids like aquarium salt because the lady at Petco told me they could be kept together, and the cichlids in the store also used the salt. Do I need to get it out, or let it run its course?
<Just do regular water changes, and over the weeks, the salt will be flushed out safely. Over the long term, salt seems to be a triggering factor for Malawi Bloat in African cichlids. Salt doesn't harden the water
or raise the pH, which is why it's of no use when keeping cichlids from Malawi, Tanganyika, or Central America. (Though that said, some Central American cichlids tolerate brackish and even saltwater conditions very well, but none actually need brackish water, and adding a teaspoon of "tonic salt" per gallon doesn't make brackish water anyway; you need marine salt mix for that.)>
I think I've learned a lot, and I won't make the same mistakes again.
<Cool.>
Thank you again!
Kim
<Happy to help.>
As for my friend's fish, I've tried to explain it to her, but she's not hearing it... I don't know what to do, but feed them, and maybe fix up the tank, but I'm sure they'll die because I'm only watching them this week,
and will not listen about the tank size. :[
<Ah, the same frustration as I often feel here, when I tell someone their Goldfish needs a 30 gallon tank, or their Betta needs to be kept warm, or their turtle needs dry land and a basking lamp. You do what you can do; the rest is up to them; call it Karma, if you will. Cheers, Neale.>

Problems with PH. FW Community 7/2/09
WWM Crew,
I’d like to start by thanking you for the immense amount of work that goes into creating and maintaining a site such as this, as well as the time spent responding to issues such as my own.
<Thank you.>
I do hope not all of my questions have been answered in the recent past, as I have checked and did not find solutions. I’ll start with some information on the tank( 36 US Gallon) up and running for 3 months.
Stocked with:
6 Julii Cory Cats
4 Sword Tails 1M 3F 1.5 – 2 in.
4 Assorted Platy 1M 3F 1.5 in.
<These should all be compatible, and share a similar preference for relatively cool water, around 23-24 C.>
1 Red Tail Shark 2 in.
<Will likely become too aggressive for this tank as it matures, so be prepared to move it to a new home; typically needs a well-planted tropical tank at least 120 cm in length.>
4 Badis Badis .75 in. New Additions
<Would be extremely surprised if the Badis does well in this system. They're almost always impossible to wean onto anything other than live or wet-frozen foods, and even then, they feed very slowly. They're suitable for single-species tanks, or else tanks where the tankmates pose no threat in terms of competition for food; Hatchetfish and halfbeaks, for example, would be ideal because they only take food from the surface.>
1 Dwarf Gourami
<My thoughts on these fish are surely well known by now!>
Tank Water:
PH 6.4 – 7.0
<Far too acidic for livebearers!>
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10ppm before water changes and 5ppm after
KH 0
<Yowser! You do need a bit more carbonate hardness than this for livebearers, and indeed most tropical fish, since without carbonate hardness, pH will be prone to dropping between water changes.>
GH 300ppm (currently)
Tap Water
3 dKH
<This is too low for livebearers, but acceptable for soft-water fish.>
140ppm GH
<Too low for livebearers.>
PH 8.4
<Bizarre.>
I recently made the novice mistake of adding fish directly to my tank with no quarantine period. 12 hours after the introduction Ich had infected all my livebearers. I raised the temp to 82 and used an Epsom Salt treatment and rid the tank if Ich. This was last week and I’m still changing the salt out of the water, explaining the very high GH tank reading….I think.
<Epsom Salt doesn't cure Ick.>
My main problem lies in the fact I can’t properly maintain the PH of my water. I have very high PH tap water but I can’t keep the tank over 6.6.
<Of course not. Without sufficient carbonate hardness, you'll never have a stable pH.>
Just changing 25% of the water raises the PH from 6.4 to over 7. The PH falls back within 3 days. I’m assuming the swings are not good for my fish. I selected primarily livebearers because of the high PH water and would like to maintain the tank in the mid to low 7’s. I acquired, after reading many of your PH crash FAQs, a hardness test kit to see just how much KH my water had out of the faucet and in the tank. I was surprised to find my tap water so low, but also to find a difference between my tap and tank water. Can water lose buffering capacity naturally?
<If there's sufficient acidity being produced in the aquarium, yes, all the carbonate hardness can be used up. Similarly, if you have a lot of fast-growing plants that perform biogenic decalcification (not all do, but species like Elodea and Vallisneria will) this also reduces carbonate hardness.>
I’ve read many suggestions to use a marine/Epsom/baking soda salt mix to add KH, but I don’t think my non-live bearers would appreciate the addition.
<They'll be fine. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
Use the Cichlid Salt mix, but at, say, one-third to one-half the dose per bucket of water added during water changes (don't add it all to the tank in one go!). The Badis can't stay in this tank anyway, but the other fish will be fine at pH 7.5, 10-15 degrees dH, 4-5 degrees KH. Try a one-third dose on a single bucket of water, do water tests, and then adjust the amounts you add per bucket up or down as required. You'll need to experiment a bit, but once you've established how much to use, you'll be able to do this each time you do a water change.>
Is there a way other than salting to add KH without sending the PH too high considering my tap water?
<No.>
I bought a buffer/stabilizer that claims to set water at 7.5 by bringing it down if above and maintaining if at of below. My worry when reading the ingredients is it uses a “proprietary blend of sodium and potassium salts”. Would a 5g per 10 US Gallon addition raise the salinity enough to bother the cats? Any recommendation on what to do would be very much appreciated.
<Wouldn't bother; it's always best to adjust all water chemistry parameters at once, rather than just pH.>
My second and hopefully final issue has to do with the death of two Dwarf Gouramis. I lost the two fish suddenly two days apart after the Ich treatment. There were few outward signs of distress. One fish went from normal to dead, and the other skipped an evening and morning feeding and died in the afternoon. Neither had Ich spots but were subjected to the eight days of 82F temps and 1 TBS per 5 Gallons of Epsom salt. Did I do something wrong, other than selecting such a weak species?
<It's tonic salt (sodium chloride, kosher salt) you need, not Epsom salt. In any case, Dwarf Gouramis are rubbish, unless you can secure locally-bred specimens.>
Thanks in advance,
Adam
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Freshwater Community Tank  7/6/09
Dear Neale,
<Hello again,>
Thanx a bunch for the speedy reply...in spite of the huge number of mails you people probably getting every day and I sincerely apologize for the spelling mistakes :-)
<It's the "text messaging" speak I really don't like... misspellings are fine; we all make them!>
I would like to further get some more Professional advices on my new tank...as I stated earlier I have 5 fancy goldfish with one serpae tetra in a 60 gallon tank
<I see.>
With one UG filter and one top-box filter...this tank is actually new and the cycle is not yet fully established.
However my problem is that one albino goldfish has ragged fin for almost one week from now. I guessed that the tetra Might be nipping its fin but in that case other GFs should have show ragged fin too...to some extent...however they r fine.
<I'd still put money on the Serpae tetra. Let's be clear about this: Serpae tetras (Hyphessobrycon eques) are notorious fin-nippers; in the wild they view the fins of slow-moving fish as food, and when kept in small groups --
or singly -- they become even more aggressive. Serpae tetras also have a true "feeding frenzy". This means that when they're feeding, they bite at anything, and often this means other fish! Serpae tetras were the first tropical fish I ever kept, and I learned the hard way that they are not -- repeat NOT -- community fish.>
So plz tell me if its fin rot disease and if yes how to treat it.
<Remove the Serpae tetra to another aquarium. If the Goldfish gets better, that's your answer.>
My second question is that I tried to use live plant (short Amazon sword) in this new tank and used coarse sand as substrate...
But almost all plants died and so others I returned to dealer...now I read in a book to use clay+sand as substrate...also I think the clay might make a cloudy water.
<No real point using plants in this tank: Goldfish will uproot plants, and they eat many plant species as well. Would recommend floating plants, such as the excellent Indian Fern (Ceratopteris spp.). These will provide lots of shade as well as food for your Goldfish, while removing all the nutrients they need from the water. This would allow you to use plain sand on the bottom of the tank.>
Will it be ok for the fish?
My current ph is b/w 7-7.5.The tap water here is normally mildly hard.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Ammonia (Bi Orb tanks; fatalities; poor water quality; the usual, really...) 6/21/09
Hi Guys
<Hello,>
Hope you can help, tried everything I can from various web sites but getting know where .
<Oh?>
I've a 30 l /8 US Gal Bi Orb which has been running for about 6 months, set up end of December , added fish slowly as suggested and got up to 6 Tetras and 2 Guppy's by mid March with no problems but was aware was now getting to maximum tank occupancy .
<Do understand that 30 litres, 8 US gallons is much below the minimum recommended size for tropical fish aquaria. Even 10 US gallons would be borderline for things like Neon Tetras. More importantly, Bi Orb tanks are an "odd" design that actually isn't all that good for keeping fish. They look nifty, I admit, but the spherical shape is the worst possible for fish in terms of surface area to volume ratio. The key thing is that there isn't a lot of oxygen getting into the water. So while they're widely sold, I strongly recommend against people buying them.>
For no apparent reason started to get an ammonia reading at the start of April , 0.25 , done partial water change about 10/20% added water conditioner and added cycle , following day all reading back to normal ,
tested water again couple of days later and ammonia starting to appear again , this is still happening now .
<It's probably not a "no apparent reason" issue, but rather something that's gradually developed. Ammonia comes from the fish, and it's removed by the biological filter. If you have ammonia in the water, it means you
either [a] have too many fish; [b] have insufficient filtration; and [c] you're adding too much food, and what the fish don't need is ending up in the filter and rotting. It's also worth mentioning that as time passes a
variety of things happen. The fish grow, for one thing, and a fish twice the length it was will actually be eight times the mass, so as fish grow, they produce much more ammonia than we think. As time passes, silt clogs up the biological filter media, be they sponges or ceramic noodles, and the silt suffocates some of the bacteria. So over time, filters process less ammonia, and to remedy that the media needs to be rinsed off
periodically.>
I've done partial water changes now , vacuuming the gravel media , anything from 10% up to 50% , 2 to 3 times a week but after a couple of days ammonia starts to come back and rises very sharply . At first I was adding Ammo Lock or Ammonia Remover but haven't done this for a month now , just the water conditioner and cycle , at water changes , however even when I add cycle now I don't get a biological bloom .
<Sounds to me as if this tank is overstocked, insufficiently filtered, and perhaps too much food is added.>
All other readings are fine and have never changed .
<What are they?>
The tank currently has only 5 Tetras in it now as 1 of them and the 2 Guppy's have died , they showed no sign of illness and were behaving normally , they didn't go all at once and were taken straight out once found , last one to die was the Tetra about 2 weeks ago .
<Hmm...>
The current tank conditions are Temp 26 , ph 6.4 , ammonia .25 , nitrate 0 nitrate 0
<Woah! Guppies cannot possibly be kept at pH 6.4! These are fish that need hard, basic water: around pH 7.5 to 8, general hardness 10+ degrees dH. If you live in a soft water area, it's best to keep Guppies in a brackish water system, adding 6-9 grammes of marine salt mix (not aquarium salt or tonic salt) per litre of water. This will not be acceptable for Tetras though.>
Hope you can help
Many Thanks
Paul
<Cheers, Neale.>

Need desperate help- possible wipe out :( (RMF, thoughts?) 4/8/09
Hi. I am desperate. I need your help.
<Oh?>
I don't even know where to start. Okay. I have a 250gallon freshwater mainly discus tank. I have 10 discus, 2 Bala sharks, 2 angels, 5 gold nugget Plecos, 2 electric blue crawfish, 3 ghost knife, 4 rams and an ornate bichir. I have had this setup with no problems for about 7months now.
<Quite a heterogeneous collection of fish!><<I'll say! RMF>>
Water parameters-
temp 82,
nitrite 0,
nitrate 0,
ammonia 0,
ph 6.7-7.3 (ranges with water changes).
<This is a bit more of a variation than you really want; if your water is on the soft side, then the use of a commercial or home-brew buffer would be useful.>
Okay so here's my problem. My bf and I decided to do a water change today since its been about a month- 2 days ago I checked the water quality and to my surprise everything was 0 except nitrate was 1.0 which I didn't think was a big deal.
<Nitrate or nitrite? Nitrate at 1.0 mg/l is trivially low, and actually rather good for freshwater fishkeeping. Nitrite, on the other hand, at this level can be lethal.>
Bf and I have been on vacation the past 3 weeks on and off. We also decided to add a new ornament and more sand to the tank.
<Ah, assume the ornament was something made for aquaria? Rather than some random knickknack? As for sand, this should be used carefully, as some kinds of sand can cause problems with pH or abrasions to fish.>
Rinsed the sand very well. We took 50% of the water out and decided to put the sand in while the water was low.
<Wise.>
I noticed the black ghost knifes, some discus's and some Plecos got caught under the sand a little.
<You should take the fish out before adding new substrate, unless you do it very carefully, using for example a large mug to gently pour quantities onto existing substrate a bit at a time. In all honesty, I'd remove fish before doing serious "earth moving".>
Figured it was no biggy, they swam away with no problem. We begun filling up the tank like usual. As the tank was filling I noticed the fish still had sand on their bodies and the knife fish were turning a little white.
<Sand does get stuck to body mucous, but in itself this causes little/no harm.>
I thought it was maybe just a little stress and decided to just keep a good eye on em'. An hour later I checked on the fish and noticed almost all the fish were turning white with a white tint/haze/layer over their eyes as well.
<Sounds like exceptional mucous production as a reaction to some sudden change in the environment, e.g., pH.>
I got extremely nervous and started researching. Found out aquarium salt could help with the situation.
<No, no real reason salt will help. Do understand aquarium salt has no impact on pH, and when keeping soft water fish such as these any minor therapeutic benefits can be offset by osmoregulatory stress.>
I put in 1 spoonful for every 5 gallons... put a little less because I was nervous to use it. I went to work and 4 hours later came home to all the fish looking really bad! Most of them were white, some with peely looking skin, flaking skin/scales, white eyes, breathing slow, a couple discus at top of water, fish that weren't affected before work are showing negative signs as well. I cried!
<Sounds extremely like a sudden, negative change in the environment. What kind of sand were you using? Inert, smooth silica sand is harmless and won't react with the water at all, but other types of sand can cause the pH to change. It's also important to understand that some sands are industrial by-products from the glass industry, e.g., Tahitian Moon Sand, and these are highly abrasive. If somehow dumped or otherwise coating fish, they cause severe irritation.>
Didn't know what else to do. I did a little research, couldn't find much and decided to do another 50% water change. Almost immediately after the water change the fish started looking a little better.
<Ah, again, this sounds like an environmental shock.>
Its extremely late so I'm going to try and sleep but I'm hoping to wake up to all my fish alive.
<Big water changes, supplemental aeration, dim (no) lighting usually help.>
What do you think caused this?? The sand not being rinsed well enough?
<Possibly.>
Bucket I used somehow have chemical in it that got in tank? Adjusted PH to suddenly (used PH down..maybe used too much)?
<How did you change the pH? My recommendation is that freshwater aquarists should not adjust pH directly; the risks are too great. Much better to find the stable pH of your tap water, add some quantity of pH buffer to each bucket of water to help keep it there, and simply allow the fish to adapt to this stable pH, even if it isn't "ideal". Fiddling around with the pH in the tank, or worse, trying to lower or raise the pH far beyond the normal pH of the tap water, often ends in problems.>
Stress?
<Perhaps, but I don't think stress is the cause, rather the symptom.>
I read online about osmotic shock... what is that? Also the Fluval, when it started back up again, spit out nasty old food/debris/waste.
<Unsightly, but unlikely to cause much harm.>
Its done this before but not as much- wondering if nasty bacteria could have caused this?
<Don't think so, though in theory, if the filter was heavily cleared of debris, it could suddenly start consuming more oxygen than normal, and this might, if your tank was overstocked/lacking in water circulation, end up stressing the fish. But never seen that happening, and my canister filters are pretty gunky at the best of times!>
I'm so confused! I use dechlorinator so I don't think that was the problem.
<Did you change brands? Did you use enough? Has the water supplier switched to chloramine recently, and your dechlorinator doesn't treat that?>
What should I do?
<Nothing beyond water changes, pH tests, and observation.>
If I wake up in the am and it got worse what would you recommend I do?
<A water change while maintaining stable pH as much as possible! The idea is to flush out whatever might be causing problems, without causing new problems by bouncing the pH up or down.>
Use an ick/parasite treatment?
<Why?>
Do another water change? I don't have a hospital tank- wish I did. I would appreciate any help. Oh yea, I added a little more salt and raised the tank temp to 84.
<Go easy on the salt; much myth related to this particular white powder...>
Thank you so very much
Christina
<Cheers, Neale.> <<I do concur with your observations, speculations Neale. RMF>>

Re: Need desperate help- possible wipe out :( (RMF, thoughts?) 4/9/09
Hi. Thank you so much for your advice! I woke up this morning and the fish were their normal color. The Bala sharks still had a little white haze over their eyes but overall they were 90% better. Almost all the fish ate today.
<Good news.>
The ornate bichir was swimming around a little and was at the top of the water a little but overall looked better (usually hiding). I tested my PH and it was at 7.6 which is extremely high to me but the person I bought my discus from uses tap water and he's been breeding for over 8 years now.
<pH largely doesn't matter in freshwater fishkeeping, and domesticated Discus can do well between pH 6 and 8, provided the pH is STABLE.>
He has close to 1,000 discus (including babies) in his garage. So I'm just going to leave things the way they are... I've been fighting this PH since I've had the new set up (use to have saltwater).
<As I say, best to keep a stable pH rather than fuss over the precise value.>
I was told its better to let the fish adjust to tapwater PH then using chemicals (which you've semi mentioned as well.
I noticed you said nitrate at 0 is hard to keep- its never been more than 1.0 for me.
<Lucky you! Urban water supplies here in Southern England are often 20+ mg/l nitrate right out the tap.>
Also, noticed you mention Tahitian moon sand as being abrasive well that's exactly what kind of sand we use. We had 6 bags already in the tank and yesterday added 2 more and that's when we noticed the white color so maybe you hit it dead on- the sand agitated the fish.
<Quite possible. If you visit the Carib Sea web site, you'll see they specifically mention this sand as being unsuitable for use with burrowing fish. It's fine for midwater things like tetras and Discus, but I wouldn't let it anywhere near catfish or loaches.>
Or maybe even the combo of sudden PH change and the sand?
<This sand is chemically inert, so shouldn't react.>
But then why right after the water change the fish looked better? Hmm.
Either way I'm just happy we didn't loose any fish. I will be extremely careful with everything I do now. Also I did switch dechlorinators, maybe I will switch back to be safe.
<Do visit your water supply web site, and check whether they use chlorine and/or chloramine. You might also review your tap water for copper and ammonia, both of which can cause problems.>
Thank You so very much
Christina
<Happy to help, Neale.>

Please help me! I'm really new to this... 03/26/09
Hello, WWM crew,
Great site! Thank you for taking my question.
<Happy to help.>
I looked around, but couldn't find what I'm looking for though...:(
<Do use the Google search box; helps find some things much more easily than browsing.>
I bought a black "female" swordtail on January 31st at Wal-Mart and put "her" (it's actually a male; I want to have my fish breed!) in an Aquatic Gardens Hanging Betta Bowl I got at Petco (they also have it at amazon.com).
<Not a chance. This "tank" is simply the cruelest thing I've ever seen in the fish business.>
It has no filter, no air pump, no heater, nothing except some colored gravel and a colorful Aqua Cave.
<A Swordtail fish needs a tank 60 cm long simply to be able to swim happily, and of course needs a heater and a filter. TAKE THIS FISH OUT OF HERE BEFORE IT DIES!!!>
Our house stays pretty warm most of the time though, and Blackie seems happy...oh, and the tank is 2.78 liters I think and I have NO IDEA what my water parameters are.
<Unless you live in the tropics, your house IS NOT warm enough for a tropical fish. The clue is in the words "tropical fish", meaning fish that come from the tropics. As opposed to fish that come from North America or Western Europe, which would be called something else.>
I know that's terrible but I can't get anything bigger.
<Take the fish back then. Keeping a living animal in a situation where IT WILL die is wrong, and doubly so if you already know that fact.>
I would if I could...I also have a Penn Plax Betta Double Tank Kit, and it currently has nothing except a beautiful blue Betta named Pishty, some gravel and a filter grid. On both tanks I do a 100% water change weekly (I know it's a bad idea, but it gets really icky in there and else how am I supposed to get bits of debris out of the gravel?) I can't afford a gravel vacuum. The fish seem fine.
<"Seem"?>
Exactly a month later I got an orange male with a HUGE sword and gonopodium. Blackie started biting and chasing him, but didn't hurt Freddy.
<There's two Swordtails in this torture chamber now?>
That's when I saw Blackie's anal fin was getting pointy (it said he was a molly on the receipt, but he is most certainly a swordtail-I've seen black mollies, and they don't have transparent fins or white stomachs or a greenish shimmer on the scales.
<Colours have nothing to do with whether it's a Swordtail or Molly. Body and fin shape is what you're looking at. Swordtails have a tapering, streamlined body and the males at least usually (though not always) a sword-like extension to the lower half of the tail fin. Mollies or much stockier, almost robust in build, and have more or less rounded tail fins, though some man-made varieties have extensions to the tail fin, e.g., the Lyre-tail Molly.>
Well I didn't want them to get hurt, so I pulled Blackie out and put him with Pishty (no separation). Pishty did not attack him UNTIL the tank was back in its place. I put the separation in but I didn't want to crowd the fishes, so I put Blackie in the plastic drinking cup I use for water changes.
<From bad to worse...>
This was on Sunday, and I had to place the cup on top of the medicine cabinet above the sink when we had to go out fast. We bought two male guppies and a female swordtail (I hope!) at Petsmart, as well as 3 mystery snails (1 of each black, gold, blue).
<Please, is this a joke? My blood pressure is already through the roof.>
How do I get them to breed?
<How can you keep them alive?>
And how do I get them to aestivate, or how do I tell males from females?
<Are we talking about the snails here? You can't easily aestivate Apple snails in captivity, which is why most die after a year or so. In the wild they alternate about 9 months of activity with 3 months buried in mud. You need to replicate this if you want them to aestivate. As for sexing them, male Apple snails have a large structure above and in front of the gills containing the penis and associated structures. It's difficult to describe, but if you have male and female Apple snails in front of you, the difference is easy enough to spot. Would recommend a book called 'Apple Snails in the Aquarium' for more information on these animals. Probably the single best source of useful information.>
Well we came back and found Blackie drying out in the sink. My mom thought he was dead, but my sister notices he was still opening and closing his mouth. He'd left pigment and mucus "kiss marks" all over the sink, and worse, he was stuck! So Mom pulled him off the sink and he jumped off her hands. She managed to plop him back in the cup only after wetting him with tap water.
<Out of the frying pan...>
He was swimming fine but lost a piece of his tail and some scales and had a slightly red tail.
<Finrot on its way...>
I called the pet store, and they told me that the Betta medicine I was using was 'fine if it worked for me' (it's Aquarium Solutions Betta Revive; we got a new ½ gal and he's in that right now. I'm using 2 drops per day and I just discontinued use, but his tail still looks red.
<The pet shop is taking advantage of the fact you don't have a clue what you're doing; they're selling you any old thing. You need something like Maracyn or eSHa 2000 for Finrot.>
He acted normal, only today he's not as active. What can I do for him?
<Get him a proper aquarium. There's no discussion here, and nothing, repeat NOTHING I say or advise will help keep these fish healthy. Unless you decided to keep your fish on land, there's really nothing worse you could be doing. Everything is wrong. Swordtails need a 20+ gallon aquarium, heated to a constant 24-25 degrees C, equipped with a reasonably fast filter providing water turnover of 4-6 times the volume of the tank per hour. These fish come from upland streams where the water is clean and contains a lot of oxygen. Hard, alkaline water is essential. They can't survive in the way you're keeping them.>
Sorry I've been so long-winded about this. Thank you!
G. 11 y/o
<I hate writing messages like this where it seems like I'm shouting at you, so please, understand I'm both furious at what the pet store allowed you to do, while desperate to help you keep these fish properly. So please, print off this message and let you mom/dad have a look over it and see what they can do to help. Otherwise I urge you to return these animals; if you cannot provide what they need, you have no business keeping them. If you want more help, please get back in touch. Cheers, Neale.>