Fat Fantails
Hello there, we have two fantails, one of which is quite big.  We decided they had outgrown their tank and moved them to a much bigger tank about ten days ago.  Since then the bigger fish has grown visibly, and the tips of his fins have gone very black. At first I thought I was imagining it as he is over two years old and I had assumed he was fully developed, but now he has very black edges to all his fins and he seems very happy.
Is this normal?  Have you ever heard of it?  My whole family is amazed by it. Looking forward to your response. Kind regards, Angela Magee
<<Dear Angela; It is common for goldfish to change color as they grow. Your fishes' growth may have been stunted by being kept in a too-small tank. I am happy to hear he is still growing, sometimes the stunting is irreversible. Fantails can grow quite large, and it is in the fishes’ best interests for you to provide adequate space for them to grow out properly: I have seen black moors with bellies the size of grapefruits. I would advise you to continue with regular partial water changes, good feeding, and perhaps some research on the Net to help you understand your goldfish and their particular care. Feeding, diseases, simple water chemistry, and other info can be found by Internet search. Here is a link to a page full of goldfish websites to start you off with: http://www.fishlinkcentral.com/links/Freshwater/Goldfish/ -Happy Fishkeeping! -Gwen>>  

Goldfish has to deal
Hello again! I have asked a couple questions in here before. I thought I had my cycle down and over - guess again!
History - 10 gal office tank, 1 Red Cap Oranda, aeration, Eclipse hood and (just replaced the old Whisper filter today) Penguin BioWheel 125.
Added Bio Spira with fish, never saw any nitrites, always had nitrate
(using treated city water).
Now on day 23.  I have been seeing ammonia creep up since the beginning - have not let it get above 1ppm, and I have .25 nitrites. These values are with regular 2 gallon detoxed water exchanges about 1-2 X a wk, with a gravel vac. I added Fritz Turbo 700 the other day when the ammonia was up to 1ppm, this dropped it down to 0 within a couple days, made the water super cloudy. Then over the weekend the ammonia went right back up... I have now resigned myself to the fact that I will have to put the fish thru a complete cycle. I have stopped gravel vacuuming, and am feeding sparingly. I will continue with the water changes if the ammonia gets to 1.5ppm (treating with Bio-safe), but I have a couple questions:
Will lowering the ammonia stall the cycle?
If yes- how high is safe for my fish?
Nitrites- how toxic are they- and at what level should I take action-? I do
not want to slow the cycle down by diluting them too far, but don't want to
put the fish in any danger as I really am attached to the little bugger! I do not have the tank heated, the office is about 68 degrees, and the hood
gives a little heat to the system during the 12 hrs it is on. I will be leaving for a vacation in 9 weeks and need to get this stable before then so I don't come back to a dead fish. Someone will feed him 1-2 times while
I am gone for 12 days, but I don't want them to have to trouble over the
water! Thanks again for all your info!! Jo
<<Dear Jo; Are you saying this tank has an Eclipse hood AND a Penguin BioWheel filter? Why? And what is Fritz Turbo 700? I will agree with you that you need to properly cycle this tank. The Bio-Spira should help, it's a good product but be aware that it has an expiration date...as I recall, it has to be added more than once to be effective. As for the toxicity, do water changes when ammonia reaches 1ppm, and when nitrite reaches the same level. Ideally, .50ppm would be a better target range for both (ammonia and nitrite are pretty much equally toxic), but yes, you will slow the cycle if you do that. Thing is, it depends on the fish...if the fish seems to handle the higher level, then go for it. If the fish seems to rest more at the bottom of the tank, breathe too fast, or in any way show discomfort (not easy to tell, but try your best) then upgrade to doing the water changes at .50, so as to keep the levels at .25ppm. Nine weeks gives you ample time to cycle this tank. Aside from the Bio-Spira and a good dechlorinator, please do not add any more additives, and let the tank be! Do not rinse your BioWheels, advice which might sound redundant, but some people actually do! -Gwen>>  

What am I doing wrong? Goldfish systems and losses
Hello
<Hello there.>
I know that you can help me.
<I will sure try!>
I have been trying to start a freshwater tank for some time. I have been doing everything that the pet store has advised, but I can't get my goldfish to live longer than a week!
<Yikes... that's not good.>
I've let the water in the new tank run for at least a week before introducing the fish,
<Try letting the tank run longer.  Set the tank up and let it run for at least two weeks.  During this time add a small amount of the flake food to the tank (with no fish in it), the flake food will break down and feed the bacteria needed to promote a healthy tank.>
I've treated the water with a conditioner recommended to me, and the 10 gallon tank is properly aerated.
<A 10 gallon tank is small for goldfish, you will only be able to keep one maybe two small ones in there.  They are very messy fish.  You will also need to have a filtration system on the tank not just something to aerate the water.  Small hang on back filters like "Whisper" are very inexpensive and are needed on this tank.>
The goldfish develop white spots and eventually their fins begin to rot. They get very weak and soon die. I've treated for ich and fin rot, and I've brought a sick fish to the pet store for advice. Nothing is working and I am getting very frustrated. I have thrown out all of the rocks and plants and I would like to try again, but I am scared of losing another fish. Please help! Tiffany
<Well Tiffany, was this tank used for anything else in the past?  Perhaps it was exposed to chemicals or something, even cleaning solvents can remain in a tank that will kill fish.  You can always tear down the tank and rinse it out with very hot water and start fresh.  Set up the tank, gravel and decor inside it.  Fill with water, and turn the filters on.  Let it run for two weeks at least, during this time place in a few flakes.  Maybe once every three days.  Break them up to fine powder, this increases the surface area and they break down faster.  I suggest you also invest in test kits for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. Test your water and when these are at zero parts per million then it will be safe to put in goldfish.  There are many good books on the topic of starting a freshwater tank. I suggest your going to your local library and getting some out.  Also look over the articles and forum on WetWebMedia.com, there you are sure to find some great info.   Best of luck to you and your future fish family! -Magnus>  

Oranda and Indianapolis water
Hello!
<Hi there>
      Just needed to ask a quick question, first the info... I have recently set up a 10 gal tank in the office for 1 juvenile (1 1/2" w/o tail) Red Cap Telescope Oranda (cute!).
<Very cute, was just given one just like it as a birthday gift for my office tank!  Delightful and beautiful fish.>
After using a de-toxifier for our chlorine, chloramine, and ammonia in the water, I let the tank sit for a few weeks with the power filter and aerator running.
<Good man!  I see many people simply get a tank and fish and put them together at the same time.  Letting the tank sit and run is one of the best things you can do for the long term health of the fish!>
I added Bio-Spira along with the fish to the tank 6 days ago. Fish is happy, swimming and eating and looks great.
<Congrats>
      From the beginning I have had daily test results of .25-.5ppm ammonia (same as the water source), and no nitrites, and nitrates at 20-25ppm (again same as water source) PH is 7.6-7.7.
<Not unusual in city water settings.  Takes a little bit of extra work to get things to stay balanced, but nothing too hard.>
Water did get a bit hazy and bubbles would collect on the surface after I fed flake food instead of the sinking pellets,
<flake food breaks down a bit quicker in the water than the sinking pellets it adds extra nutrients and such to the water which feeds the bacteria.  Just be sure to not over feed the tank, only feed what the fish can eat in few minutes.  If possible you can offer really small meals throughout the day rather than a large meal all at once.>
did a 25% treated water change on day 5 by vacuuming the gravel and it helped a bit (not gotten worse since).
<Keep up with this, since your city water is not the best to start with you will probably have to do water changes quite frequently.  Also since the fish is only in a ten gallon tank, the water quality can get bad quickly since goldfish produce such a great amount of waste and ammonia.>
      I was wondering - after these days of feeding 2x daily would the
chemical tests be indicating that the Bio-Spira worked and I have a cycled tank, or is it too early to tell? I have not seen an increase in ammonia nor nitrate levels over what is in our wonderful municipal water originally, and would expect to have seen that by now if it were going to happen. Am I correct in my thinking?
<You are correct; at least that is what I'm thinking.  I doubt you should have any problems provided you don't over feed the tank and you keep up on the water changes.>
I will be testing daily for several weeks anyway. Also, is the level of ammonia present (.5ppm) in our water supply stressful to the fish at all after I add a ammonia Detox?
<It's kind of a debatable topic.  I say it is slightly stressful, but you are adding a detoxifier in the water so it shouldn't be that bad.  Also goldfish are pretty hardy fish.  I had fish in water very similar in my previous office and they became accustomed to it and thrived for many years.  I did notice that their growth was a bit slower than the ones at my home (luckily natural spring water bubbles up out of the ground at my house).  Just realize that you should test at least once or twice a week as the months go on.  Gradually you should get the hang of the system and only need to test sparingly.  But, I don't foresee any extremely bad situations happening.>
      If the level of ammonia does indeed go up- at what level (ppm) should I do a sizable water change for the safety of the fish (considering my water already shows at .5ppm)?
<If your levels do become quite high you shouldn't do a massive change at once.  Do small ones every day rather than a 50-70% water change.  I find this is less stressful on the fish and less likely for them to possibly get ill.   But, if the levels get around 1.5ppm I would be concerned and getting them down.  Over 2.5ppm then I would be very worried.>
Thanks for all your help and the great information on your website.
<Glad we can be of help!  That is what we are here for. -Magnus>  

Gravel size and Goldfish
Hello All.
<Hi there>
I have a 72 gal established aquarium of Goldfish. Presently there are
four fish, 4-6 in size. I messed up the filter and the tank is recycling (again)! After the cycle I have three 1-3 in. Ranchus to add to the tank.
My concern is gravel size. When we had a 7" Oranda she would constantly suck up gravel and get a stone stuck in her mouth.
<Many goldfish owners have problems like that.  when I first started into goldfish I, on numerous occasions, had to pop a stone out of the mouth of my goldfish.>
I had gone by previous advice and put med size stones when starting out
and as I say, had constant problems. I am concerned with these Goldies
growing and having the same problem with the stones getting stuck in
their mouth and before I add the new little Ranchus, I'd like to change the gravel to a smaller size. Or should I?
<Yes you should, the smaller the gravel is better for goldfish.  They can suck in the gravel, roll it around and feed off of them and will be able to spit them back out with no problems.  The problem comes when you have larger gravel that is the same size as their mouths.  Smaller is safe for these fish.>
I really don't want to have anything happen to these little jewels!  I worry about wrecking the good bacteria that goes along with the gravel and I also worry about having to go through yet more tank cycling. Is it possible to add a little bit of new stones every few weeks and take a little of the old out? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
<Keeping the filter medium when you change the gravel will greatly reduce any sort of re-cycling that will happen when switching the gravel.  But, if you are still worried I would set up a smaller tank and allow that to cycle so when you are going to change the gravel you can simply move the goldfish to the other tank for a short time and change the gravel at your leisure.  Trust me, I've changed gravel in goldfish tanks and beneath that gravel there is some dark water... no matter how much you vacuum you will have lots of waste trapped below the surface and it might get extremely dirty for your goldfish. That is the method I had used, and with the two tanks running it definitely put my mind at ease.>
Regards
Robyn
<Good luck with the goldies! -Magnus>  

Slimy Aquarium - 05/31/2004
I just wanted to know. I have 2 Calico fantails and the glass in the aquarium has a film all over it. How do I clean this off?
<This is probably just algae - best removed manually, with an algae-scrubbing pad or scraper.  If your tank is acrylic, be sure to get one that won't scratch it.>
I am new to fish.
<Welcome to the hobby, then, Mike!>
Thanks Mike
<Wishing you and your fish well, -Sabrina> 

Goldfish help
Hello. I have just finished reading several of your articles, but still have some questions. Help!
I have had a 20gal tank for a couple of years now. I have gone through several tropical species and have learned a lot through trial and error. Well, finally I thought my tank was going to be set when I got 2 fantail goldfish. For a few months, everything seemed fine, though I noticed that they dirtied up the tank a lot more than my other fish ever did. Anyway, about two weeks ago my water started getting cloudy, so I did a water change and even added an ammonia removal media to my filter. I am really struggling with my water quality. The PH is really low and I can't get it up and stay there. And no matter what I put in it, the ammonia levels stay above 2ppm. As you can guess, one of my fish died. I did another water change, but the ammonia levels are still off the charts. Now, if it doesn't die that is, I have one lone fish. Once I get the water stable, should I add another goldfish? He already looks so lonely. Currently, he is 4 inches. I need some advice on both points. Could my struggle with the water quality be due to the gravel - I read somewhere that goldfish tanks should not have gravel? Should I clean it more often than every other week? Was 2 four-inch goldfish simply too many for a 20gal tank?
Thanks
Jamie
< Don't add any more fish until you get your tank chemistry under control. First is the ammonia. It should read zero. Don't feed for awhile. Vacuum the gravel with a 30% water change and get all the junk out of there. Gravel is fine if it is cleaned. Check the ammonia again. If you still get a reading then service the filter. Get the ammonia levels down to zero with water changes or ammonia removal media. When you have a zero reading then you can feed your fish only enough food that it will eat it all in a couple of minutes. Overfeeding is a major cause of ammonia problems. The ammonia should then be converted to nitrites and then nitrates. The ammonia and nitrite levels should read zero. Nitrates should be no higher than 25 ppm. - Chuck>   

Strange behavior
Hi, We bought 2 goldfish to go in a 48 liter tank with pump - had all the levels checked out at the local aquarium before we introduced the fish. They have been fine - eating really well etc... However I have noticed that the black moor keeps going to the top of the tank and wedging himself above the filter, sitting there for hours.  He is perfectly upright, and comes down every now and again and swims around the tank and then eventually goes back.  He looks healthy and as soon as I put his food in (flakes) he charges out and eats loads.
He seems to get on with the other fish and swims round with him.
I have turned down the filter in case he does not like this up too high and he does have stuff in there to hide under.  Should I be worried or is this just something he likes doing? Karen
<< Dear Karen. Please forgive my frustration, but it never fails to amaze me how much misinformation is still being handed out regarding the cycling of new tanks. I hear this a great deal, and I feel sorry for folks like you who have been given false information by inexperienced store personnel. Quite frankly, it depresses me. What levels did they tell you to have to have checked "before" adding your fish? There is nothing to check, except pH, which is great but it's not even pertinent to the cycling process. You need to add fish, and THEN start testing your water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, in that order, over the next month. It is the fish that produce the ammonia, which is converted to nitrite, and then converted again to nitrate. In other words, you are growing nitrifying bacteria and until you have enough, your tank will need to be tested weekly, if not more often. Right now your black moor is probably suffering ammonia toxicity, and you should go back to your LFS and ask them what they felt they needed to test BEFORE the fish were added. Ask them to explain cycling to you, and ask them to test the water for ammonia now that the fish are in it. I hope they have an intelligent answer. Sorry, this is a sore spot for me. It drives me nuts, this complete lack of training being given to supposed "expert" store employees. Black moors especially are pretty sensitive fish, and should not even be used to cycle a tank with...he may develop ich, or a bacterial eye infection from the stress. If he does, please email me back and I will tell you how to treat him. It is a good sign that he is eating. In the meantime, get your water tested, do some water changes to keep the levels as low as possible, and cross your fingers. And tell your store guy to read this website. -Gwen>>  

Strange Behavior II
Hi there Gwen
Thank you for your reply. Eventually they did advise us to take some water in for a test and you were quite right, the nitrite level was high. We did a water change - put some tonic in the water and he seemed really fine and was swimming around for about a week and then suddenly we found he had passed away - I had only looked at him that morning and he looked happy and healthy and was quite shocked when I found him dead. It is such a shame and we were gutted. The other fish, a fantail goldfish, has been really fine throughout all of this and seems to have adapted really well. Do they prefer to be on their own or should we get another one like him for company as I am worried that he may be a bit lonely? Kind regards, Karen
<<Hello again. Chances are that the one water change you did was not sufficient to reduce the ongoing nitrites...keep in mind that these toxins are being produced by the fish each day, all day long, as waste. You would have had to test the water more often, and do water changes every other day to reduce that high level. I would recommend buying your own test kits (ammonia, nitrite, nitrates) and testing the water yourself until your ammonia is ZERO and nitrites are ZERO. Nitrates should be kept low, around 20-60ppm, by doing regular partial water changes. Do not add another fish until your ammonia and nitrites are zero. Might take a few weeks! -Gwen>>  

Goldfish Tank temperature
Hey
Thanks for all the help for my previous queries :)
I have 2 red cap Orandas in a 10 gallon tank. I never realized this problem would arise since it’s the first summer I would have a fish tank in the house. But I started noticing that as summer's coming, my tank's temperature also is going up. I usually maintain the tank temperature at 76 and now it’s gone up to 80. I tried to cool it by changing about 10% or less water at frequent intervals (just the last 2 days that is) but it’s of little help. And it’s just the beginning of summer!! Although we have air conditioning in the apt it becomes hot. Any tips for keeping the tank cooler in the coming months?? Any alternative to using the air conditioner? 
< Keeping the tank lower and out of direct sunlight will help some. Try and get some additional aeration in the tank by using an airstone. Water carries less oxygen the warmer it gets. Leave the lights off the tank too until it cools down.>
Also I would like to know what the feeding schedule and how much to feed the fish in summer? Whenever I feed peas to my fish, one of them eats more than the other. Is it going to be bad if he eats more peas??
Thanks and I really appreciate your help!
< As the summer weather increases the water temperature, the fish’s metabolism will increase too. They will be hungrier, eat more and generate more waste. You will probably have to service the filter more and increase the amount of water you change too. Try not to overfeed either fish. Make sure all the food is gone in a few minutes. Leftover food will cause serious problems. The stress on the fish with increased temperatures and over feeding may lead to bloat.-Chuck.>
Sweta  

Burst bag of goldfish... and quick action saves the day She Saved the Fish!
Hi I was looking through your website in desperation. I'll tell you why..... I went shopping yesterday and found on the sidewalk a goldfish in a burst plastic bag, it was gasping so I ran into the nearest shop, filled the intact part of the bag with water and the fish started swimming :)
Went to a dollar store, got a Tupperware and took it home in that. Went to the nearest aquarium shop and asked for help. They gave me a bag of gravel, a 1 gallon bowl, Aqua Plus tap water conditioner, and a pH balancer and some flake food. As he was in about 50ml of water, I put him pretty much straight into the tank, which I now know is a bad thing to do, I think he went into cold water shock.
Amazingly the fish survived the night, and I am now rather attached to him. Anyway, he started hanging out near the surface a lot this afternoon, and I figured he's not got enough oxygen, so I took out some water; the tank is now 1/2 full. I figure I need a bigger tank right? He's about 2 inches long, and a plain old garden variety goldfish as fast as I can tell. DO I really need a pump, filter, etc. etc. etc.?? Please help as I have become a fish owner not so much by choice as by commitment, and am therefore completely clueless about what to do, but want to give this poor fish a good shot.....
Yours in desperation, Jehannine
<<Dear Jehannine, good for you for rescuing a homeless fishie :). You are on the right track, and yes, he probably does need a bigger bowl, er, tank. A tank with a filter would be the best thing, but if you cannot manage it, a bowl will suffice as long as you get one large enough for him to have some space to grow...regular goldfish will grow to 12 inches in length. Stunting him by keeping him in too small a bowl will not help in the long-term. Plus, twice weekly water changes will be necessary to keep him healthy. The smaller the bowl, the more often you need to change the water. A ten or twenty gallon tank is best, with a filter and some gravel for him to dig in. You will still have to do water changes, but not quite so often. Goldfish can live a very long time, upwards of 10-20 years. You can do a search on the Net, and read up on goldfish and their care. Here is a good place to start: http://www.petlibrary.com/goldfish/goldfish.html  Good luck and have fun :) -Gwen>> < Welcome to the world of aquarium fish. If you really want to keep him happy for a long time then we have our work cut out for us. Little goldfish bowls are basically little death traps for goldfish. Those bowls really are only suitable for bettas and related fish. Your goldfish needs to have the water circulating or it will suffocate. You need a little air pump with an airstone to keep the water moving all the time. Unfortunately these little pumps can be quite noisy. Your bowl could use a little undergravel filter that fits in the bowl under the gravel. Until the bacteria bed gets established in the gravel you will have to change the water every couple of days to keep the ammonia levels down. Maybe after a couple of weeks you may not have to do as many water changes. In the meantime don't overfeed and go to the fish store or library to get a good book on goldfish and do some homework. See if you really want to keep this guy for the long haul. If you do then you will eventually need to buy a tank. -Chuck> 

Keeps Killing Biological Filter
I have a ten gallon tank containing three average size goldfish, one large goldfish and an average black moor. For the past several weeks I've found that they've been gasping for air at the top of the tank. Several times, the goldfish have developed red marks on their faces. Each time I've done either a partial or total water change and cleaned the sides of the tank. Afterwards, the gasping stops for two to three days and then continues with a transparent brown film on the sides of the tank and gravel. I've tried parasite treatment, ick treatment, algae treatment and anything else I've come by. Any advice at all would be appreciated. I can't stand seeing my fish like this.
< Check the nitrates. Your filter should be turning the water over at least 3 times an hour. Goldfish in general are pretty messy so you may need more, especially in a ten gallon tank. I suspect that the biological filter is having a tough time keeping up and is slowly converting the ammonia to nitrites. A slow conversion may have led to elevated levels of ammonia and have started burning the gills, thus the red on the face. I would recommend a filter that you can easily service, make sure there is no left over food after every feeding. and to check the nitrates so you can establish a regular water changing schedule and not have to wait until the fish are so stressed that they are gathering at the surface of the water.-Chuck> 

Goldfish and Water Quality - 04/13/2004 
Hi, 
<Hello, Sabrina here, today.> 
I have a very large goldfish (he is the only fish in his tank). He started to get finrot over two weeks ago. When I tested the water, the ammonia levels were extremely high and the PH levels were very low. 
<Yikes! I think it probably goes without saying, but I will say anyway, please test your water on a regular basis. Perhaps with every water change, 20/20 hindsight, I know, and I know you've learned that lesson, but just wanted to make sure you realized.> 
I quarantined him for three days and treated him with medication and changed the water in his aquarium. All the tests were fine then. From the time he has been sick until yesterday, he has been lying on the bottom on his side and moves his body across the bottom of the tank. I have been treating the tank with Melafix for the last four days. 
<I, personally, do not hold a high opinion of Melafix. Though it does not seem to cause any ill effects, I am not convinced that it does anything good, either. Anyhow, that's pretty much irrelevant at the moment, so.... moving on....> 
As of yesterday morning, the fish constantly sits upright on the bottom of the tank and is very alert. His fins are a little better, but definitely no worse. 
<Good news, for sure.> 
However, he has a lot of brown spots on him. I read that this can be seen when a fish is starting to recover from ammonia burns. 
<Agreed; often one will see brownish hue in the fins, where they were red/inflamed/bloody before, from the ammonia.> 
The problem is he still isn't swimming and most importantly, he hasn't eaten for 10 days. 
<YIKES.> 
I don't know what else to do for him. Are there any suggestions? 
<Certainly. What have you tried feeding him? I would definitely offer him some greens, like thawed frozen peas (squeeze the shell off, first), blanched cucumber/zucchini, or other goodies. I used to give my goldies asparagus as a kid, just to get the stuff off my plate.... win-win situation, that was. As for the lingering problems from the ammonia, I would like to recommend keeping the tank *VERY* well aerated, first and foremost. The damage you see on his outside is representative of the more dangerous damage to his gills; vigorous aeration may increase his activity level, if he's currently stressed from laboring too much just to breathe. If you are still very concerned about ammonia burns, and feel that it is necessary to medicate, I would try nitrofurazone ("Furacyn", by Aquatronics, for one proprietary name). This is a very mild med, and supposed to help with issues from ammonia poisoning. I would not medicate, though, until after seeing if vigorous aeration and tasty veggies don't bring him about.> 
Thanks. 
<You betcha. Good luck with your goldie, and please feel free to write in for further assistance, or if you wish to update us on his progress. Wishing you well, -Sabrina> 

Action accessories for goldfish
  We are a small company in a trade center.  We recently bought the fish and turtle booth.  I have been looking for a wholesale distributor of aquarium decoration, including action ones.  I'm not real good with this computer.  Do you have any sites that I could look at?   The place where we get most of our supplies has high prices on decorations.
Coinman Collectibles - Phillip Butler/Bonnie Prowant
The only fish we sell are goldfish.   (We have really strayed from our original product line.)
<Do look into Blue Ribbon's line... as well as the "scuba man" series being offered in T.F.H. Magazine (Tropical Fish Hobbyist) Bob Fenner> 

Goldfish are not Bowlfish!  4/7/04
Hi.
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I found your site while researching about goldfish, and I have found it really helpful, but I have a problem.  
<Great, lets see if I can help.>
Let me precede this email by saying that I have never had goldfish before, and that I got most of my information from the pet shop attendant (which I have never done before while purchasing pets, and now I know I will never do it again).  
<Smart idea!>
I was told that it was fine to keep 3 goldfish (A black moor and 2 feeder fish) in a 2.5 gallon tank.
<Huge mistake!>
I'm a college student, and I don't have much space, but I will buy a new, much larger tank as soon as I get home (beginning of May).  
<Too late.>
I was also told that I would need to do a water change about 2 times a month.
<Wrong again!  GF require 10g/fish, up to 3" & then 20+g/fish when bigger.  GF grow to 12+" & can live over 20 years.  They are heavy waste/ammonia producers & require large tanks, heavy filtration & huge water changes, because of this.  Most long time GF keepers say that weekly 90% water changes is not considered too aggressive.  The only fish that could possibly exist in a 2 1/2g tank would be a Betta.>
I have had the 3 goldfish since Saturday (today is Tuesday) and yesterday night I saw my smallest fish swimming around quickly, as if something was wrong.  After a while, however, it looked okay again, but this morning I found it dead in the tank.  
<Not surprised--sounds like ammonia poisoning.>
This has upset me very much, because I feel I have done everything I was told, and that I have been lied to.  
<Not lied to, just advice from the ignorant & uncaring.>
My other two fish seem fine, but I'm really worried that they too will not live long.  
<You've got that right.>
I am going to do a water change today, hopefully that will help, and as soon as I am able, I will go to the store and buy a water tester kit. Is there anything else I can do? I'm very upset, and I want to do everything possible to keep my fish alive.
<Like I said, no goldfish will live long in a tank that small.  I suggest returning them immediately.  If you must have a fish in there, get a Betta.>
Thank you so much for your help,
<Sure & whenever you life is settled enough for a larger tank, then we can talk goldfish.  ~PP>> 

Fancy Goldfish 
I got my wife a 10 gallon tank for her birthday and she picked out a fancy goldfish for it. The store clerk said the tank should be big enough, but we have read that the tank may be too small. My wife is also worried about the fish getting lonely. Is it better to pair them up? If so what size tank would you recommend getting for two fancy goldfish? Thank You for your help. Jeff 
<<Dear Jeff; Yes, a ten gallon tank is too small. Good call! Goldfish can do quite well in groups; the problem is tank size and water quality. Keeping one goldfish in that ten gallon is a better idea than two, but since you realize you will need to upgrade the tank anyways....goldfish should have space to grow, so you may start with two, but keeping one goldfish per ten gallons of water is a better idea. Fancy goldfish can grow to the size of a decent grapefruit. One more thing, if this is tank has been set up recently, chances are you are cycling with this one goldfish. Take a sample of your water to the LFS when you go back, and get your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates checked. If the ammonia or nitrite readings are too high, you will need to wait a bit longer before adding the second fish. If you have nitrates, you may add the second one. Always do small, frequent partial water changes to control the ammonia/nitrites/nitrates. -Gwen>> 

Goldfish are Not "Bowl" Fish! 4/2/4 
Hi, Pufferpunk here> 
Hi, I recently bought a couple of small goldfish which I have in a large vase, and I was wondering whether it would be safe to put in a bamboo shoot ? Please help. 
<forget about the bamboo, you have much bigger problems. Goldfish are not "bowl" fish! A vase is not a proper home for ANY fish. You need at least a 10g tank/goldfish (while small). Please give them a proper home with a filter & room to swim. Goldfish are heavy waste/ammonia producers & require huge weekly water changes, but do not completely clean the whole tank. Read up on the care of goldfish & cycling a tank.> 
Thanks 
<Goldfish grow to over 12" & can live up to 20 years if cared for properly. ~PP>  

Goldfish Tank Trouble 3/31/04 
<Hi, Pufferpunk here tonight> 
Hi. I'm a beginner and did not realize how uneducated (or misinformed I should say) I was until I found your site. 
<A little of both probably.> 
It's helped out a lot. 
<Great!> 
I have a 10g with one black moor goldfish. Topfin filter and tank. It's been set up for almost three months. The water kept getting REALLY cloudy, so going on the advice of the people at PetSmart, I did massive water changes (50% or more) every week. 
<Actually, unlike most large chain pet stores, I have found most PetSmart employees to be fairly well trained in fishkeeping. I even heard a girl explaining to a customer about cycling a tank! The girl's advice wasn't far from the truth. Most long time goldfish keepers swear by 90% weekly water changes, as do some discus breeders. They are very messy fish, producing large amounts of waste & ammonia. I myself, do 50% weekly water changes on all my tanks (no goldfish here though). That 50% you were doing was probably keeping the ammonia & nitrites down to non toxic levels, but your tank had never fully cycled.> 
I have since found your site and have let the water go, just doing 10% water changes. It's been about five weeks now and the water is crystal clear. I have been taking the water to PetSmart to have it tested and the ammonia keeps coming up high. 
<See, I was right--not cycled yet.> 
So I bought the freshwater Master Test Kit from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. 
<Good test kit, I have the same one.> 
I have been adding Ammo-Lock and Stress Coat every week when I do the water change. I did the tests on this past Sunday (21st) and these are the results: 
High Range pH (suggested for goldfish?): 7.8 
Ammonia: off the chart (greater than 8.0 ppm) 
Nitrite: somewhere between 0-.25 ppm 
General Hardness: 7dgh or 125 ppm 
<pH is easily acclimated for most fish & isn't much concern. It's the ammonia & nitrite (& nitrates over 50, best kept <20) that are toxic to fish.> 
My assumption is that the tank has not cycled because of the massive water changes. 
<I don't believe that to be true. The cloudy water & ammonia spikes are part of the process of cycling with fish. Next time you should do a fishless cycle, if you don't want your fish to suffer. See: http://www.tropicalfishcentre.co.uk/Fishlesscycle.htm > 
The booklet for the test kit says that even if you use Ammo Lock and your ammonia is "non-toxic" the kit will still pick it up. Is it really non-toxic? 
<Yes, Ammo-Lock will break down toxic ammonia into non-toxic ammonia, so it will test positive on the ammonia test.> 
I'm wondering how often I should add the Ammo Lock and what else I should do? Stress Zyme? 
<Stress-zyme won't do anything & is a waste of $$$. See if you can find Bio-Spira. Stocks are extremely low for this product right now. It is the ONLY real source of live nitrifying bacteria for your tank. You will need to do a big water change to remove the Ammo-Lock from your tank before adding Bio-spira, or the bacteria will have nothing to feed on & it won't work.> 
Also is there any way too cool down a tank without doing large water changes? For some reason the temperature keeps creeping up to about 74 degrees. 
<Other than floating bags of ice in there consistently or buying a chiller, you fish will have to acclimate to that temp.> 
Sorry so long winded. Thank you in advance for any help you can give me. Tara 
<Good luck with your fish. ~PP> 

Tiny Overstocked "Tank"  3/4/04
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
A friend of mine has this 2 1/2 gallon tank. In it there is three goldfish and one algae eater. The water is so milky and after they do a full water change it turns milky within a couple of hours. Tested water all seems fine. What could be done to help it.
<1st of all there are way too many fish in there.  The only fish that could possible live in a tank that size, would be a Betta, or a few small white clouds (like 3).  A small goldfish needs at least 10 gal/fish & they can grow over 12" each.  Every time you are completely cleaning out the tank, you are causing it to recycle all over again.  Do a search on WetWebMedia on cycling a tank.  Please get a much bigger tank for all those fish.  It's ok to be removing a lot of the water every week, because goldfish are messy fish, but you should not be removing everything out of the tank to clean it.  Just remove 80% of the water (leave the fish in) & clean the gravel with a gravel cleaner every week.  Make sure to add Dechlor & use the same temperature water that is in the tank.>  
Thank you Georgia Luce
<You're welcome.  ~PP>  

Goldfish and Water Quality
Hi,
<Hello.>
I own a Oranda/Lionhead (can't tell which species exactly) and I've just noticed (since an hour ago) that he appears to have some redder than normal red spots on his bubbly head. These are probably indications of blood, perhaps an outbreak; he also seems to have a lot of red streaks in his fins.
<Signs of irritation, usually due to inappropriate water quality - do please test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, correct with water changes if necessary.>
Usually, he is a very happy swimmer, always upbeat and eager to be fed. Even recently, I haven't seen any abnormal behavior changes, until today. During feeding time, he didn't seem too excited about the food, and kept dawdling around near the middle of the tank. I am terribly worried about what kind of disease/condition he has come up with, as he is a very fond member of our family.
<This definitely sounds like he's just having trouble with the water quality....  please test, let us know how it comes out.>
Normally, he lives in a 50-gallon tank (estimation) with 8 other goldfish (not lionheads). To give you a rough estimate of how big the tank is, the dimensions are apprx. : 4 ' long, 1.5' tall (height), 1' width.
<Sounds like a standard 55 gallon tank.  Nine goldfish is quite a lot of goldfish in this tank; goldfish are really, really messy eaters (er, they poop a lot).>
I change the water usually every other week, as I know that ammonia levels can add up (lost a number of fish due to this).
<I can imagine so.  I would recommend weekly water changes, if at all possible, and some very hefty filtration.>
I haven't recently checked the pH, ammonia level/other chemical levels for awhile, as I assume that the water changing automatically makes the tank water suitable for the fish.
<Not a safe assumption, unfortunately; testing for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH is the only way we are able to get a real feel for what's going on in the tank.  And, when in doubt, water changes *never* hurt.>
Back to the Lionhead fish issue, I was hoping you could give me a vague diagnosis of several diseases he could possibly have and what types of treatments are available.
<Mm, although there are other slight possibilities, I'm fairly confidant that the problem here is simply water quality.  Fortunately, that's an easy thing to fix!>
Thank you so much!
<Any time.>
By the way, I have already started to put him in a "medication/hospital tank" to prevent the spread of disease and to help with treatment.
<Likely unnecessary....  I would test your water first (might be a good idea to make that your first step, whenever anything seems amiss), then, if everything checks out perfect (ammonia and nitrite at ZERO, nitrate ideally less than 20ppm, likely higher with so many goldfish in the tank), then we should start exploring other avenues.>
I've given him a tablespoon of salt for his 1-gallon make-shift tank.
<That's a little bit much for a one gallon tank; I wouldn't use more than a teaspoon or two.  Not a big deal, really, though.>
Again, I would be most grateful if you could provide any advice or information whatsoever.
<So please check your water, and get back to us; I'll be glad to be of further assistance.>
Alice
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>  

Goldfish and Water Quality - II - 03/07/2004
Hello Again,
<Hello.>
My Oranda seems to have recovered from his previous "streaky-finnage" (streaks on his fins) and blood hemorrhaging on his head. I took him out of his 1-gallon hospital tank today, and put him in his original tank (with the other nine fish). He seems to be fairly happy and well-off, with only a few remaining red streaks on the very tip of his dorsal tail.  
<Good to hear that.>
The pH of my aquarium turned out to be 7, the NH3/NH4 level turned out to be 0, and I didn't check the nitrite/nitrate levels.  
<Please do make a habit of testing nitrite, at least - it should be considered as toxic as ammonia.  Nitrate, though not quite as much of an issue should still be monitored, and kept below 20ppm, ideally.>
Thanks for your help!  Alice
<Any time, glad to be of service!  -Sabrina>  

Goldfish and well water -II
Gwen, I purchased some dip sticks to test my water the pH was very high at over 8.2. I put in some pH balance "fizz tablets", tested it again, and it was still high. We have well water, but have a water softener also. For as long as I have had fish, I always bypassed the water softener and used hard water to fill my tanks. Am I correct in doing this? Soft water contains salt and is harmful to the fish, correct? Well I went to the market and bought gallon jugs of distilled water and added water conditioner to it to fill my tank. Noah and another smaller goldfish seem to be a lot happier and healthier. They are both swimming around nicely, but I fear that it may be too late for another one of my smaller goldfish. She seems to be close to expiring. I don't understand why, I never had water problems before, and am having them now. Any ideas? Please let me know if I am on the right track or not. Thank you for all your help thus far. 
<<Christina, I am not sure if you are doing the wrong thing or not. It depends on how your fish are doing. Goldfish can tolerate a high pH, but they don't like fluctuations in pH, or toxins like ammonia, nitrites, or high nitrates. Soft water is perfectly acceptable, some species prefer a low pH, like discus, and some prefer a high pH, like African cichlids. It just depends on the species. What I do recommend is that you test your pH on a regular basis, to determine if the pH of your well water is stable or not. Diluting it with distilled water is acceptable also, so long as you are making sure that the proportion of dilution is always the same, and therefore the pH is always exactly the same when you do water changes. In other words, if you have put aside 5 gallons of well water at 8.2, and you add 2.5 gallons of distilled water, you should bring the pH down to, well, let's just say you test it and now it reads 7.6. So, each time you do a water change, you know that you must dilute your well water 50% in order to have a stable pH of 7.6. BUT if your well water pH fluctuates, then you will have to change the dilution ratio accordingly.. Make sense? Hope this helps -Gwen>> 

Redcap Goldfish I
Hi, I am a beginner with fish... and I just got a Redcap gold fish. I was wondering if well water is ok for this kind of fish? Should we have boiled it first? My mom has this small tank, I don't know how many gallons it is though.  How big of a tank do I need for just one Redcap goldfish?
Write back soon! Thanks
<<Hello :) Congrats on your new fishie! Well water should be okay, you can test the pH with a test kit from your local fish store. Goldfish like a pH between 7.2-7.8, roughly. Your moms tank should do fine, if it is 10 gallons or so. If it's smaller than 5 gallons, you may need to buy him a bigger one in a few months or so. In the meantime, be sure to do partial water changes every week to keep your redcap healthy :) Make sure the new water is the same temp as the tank water. Good luck! -Gwen>>  

Redcap Goldfish II - Problem
My fish has died!!!  :o(  What do you think I did wrong? I now have a 10
gallon tank....
<<Hello again. I do not know what you did wrong. Have you had your water tested? This is the only way to know. Go to your local fish store and take a sample of your tank water. Have them test ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. This might tell you what went wrong. -Gwen>>  

Goldfish Colors 2/29/04
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I just got 6 goldfish today.  One is really big and the other 5 are medium size.  I've noticed one’s like a white color and the other 2 have an interesting black stripe running down their back at the top.  Do I have to be concerned about this?  It's really freaking me out that they might be sick. Please answer my question and what I can do to help.
<The black is a normal coloration of your goldfish.  It may fade as it gets older.  What freaks me out is that you have so many fish & bought them all at the same time.  Goldfish need at least 10 gallons each at under 3" & 20gal each when larger.  Either you have a very large tank or your fish are severely overcrowded.  Goldfish are very dirty/heavy waste producing fish.  Even at the stocking levels just mentioned, 80-90% weekly water changes are recommended to keep the ammonia levels down to non-toxic levels.  Adding that many fish to any sized tank at one time, will result in the death of most, if not all of your fish.  Please try to do something to remedy this, like get a much larger tank, or return some of these fish to save the others.  I apologize, if you really do have a huge tank.  ~PP>  

Goldfish maintenance
I used to have to clean my one goldfish's bowl every few days or once a week. It's getting more and more frequent (daily).  Does my fish have a disease?
>>Hello. Hopefully not. However, your fish is probably growing to large for its bowl. If you don't buy it a new, larger home, your fish might get sick and die. As it grows the ammonia levels will rise too quickly for the amount of water changes you do, and the fish will become stunted. You really should think about buying your fish a bigger home. Regular goldfish (comets) can grow up to a foot in length, and fantails and other fancy goldfish can grow large enough to resemble grapefruits. HTH -Gwen<<  

Goldfish and bleach
Help!!! My son has had 4 goldfish in a 10 gal tank for the last 2+
years. Yesterday I took all the fish out and put them in a 1 gal holding tank using water from the main tank. I then emptied the water out and cleaned the tank and gravel with bleach. After cleaning I rinsed completely and reset the tank.
<If you do smaller bi-weekly (or even weekly) water changes you will not have to do a complete tank clean.  Goldfish are messy, and if you just keep up on cleaning and vacuuming the gravel you will have an easier time with it.>
I have done the same process every 8 months or so and have never had a problem. This time however all 4 fish died after sitting listless on the bottom of the tank for about 20 minutes. Before I buy more fish and start again do you Have an idea what happened?? And what I should do different?
<I do not like getting bleach near my fish tanks.  If I had to guess what had happened I think the fish had been poisoned with bleach that had not been fully washed out from the tank. If you do get more goldfish, and you keep the same cleaning schedule, all you have to do is wash the tank out with warm water rather than bleach.  But, I suggest you alter your schedule and do smaller weekly or bi-weekly water changes and gravel vacuuming. doing that and adding the freshwater will be more beneficial to your fish than letting them live in the same water for 8 months then totally starting over. My other concern is that 10 gallon tanks are far to small to keep goldfish for long periods of time.  They are messy, and require large amounts of water so the tank doesn't become to disgusting to quickly.  I have moved my goldfish to larger tanks and the cleaning schedule is greatly less demanding then it was when they were in tiny tanks!   Hope that helps -Magnus>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - 02/10/2004
Hello
<Hi.>
I have one 9 year old 5" goldfish in a 10 gallon tank with a little gravel on the bottom. The temperature is normally kept at 73 degrees. It has a Penguin Biowheel mini power filter Flow: 100 GPH. There is also an aerator pump in his tank. I change 30% water once a week to which I add 5ml (1 capful) of "Cycle" and use "AquaPlus" to dechlorinate water.  He eats approx. 12 Wardley pellets a day.
<So far, so good....>
3 weeks ago while I was gone he was overfed. I had just done a 1/3 water change and came home 3 days later to a smelly, dirty tank. Fish was sitting in the corner but swam around when disturbed. Still eating good. Thought he might be doing "flashing" motions across the tank once in awhile.
<Likely the "flashing" is a reaction to irritation (ammonia, nitrite) in the water.>
I tested his water: there was a bit of ammonia and nitrites in the water and the nitrate reading was high.
<Bingo.>
I did a 25% water change and siphoned a lot of waste from the bottom. Changed the charcoal filter and added a capful of "Cycle". Did not feed fish anymore this day.
<Larger water changes may be more appropriate while the water levels are off....>
The next day the water was clearer and all reading were a little lower. pH 7.5.  I did a 20% water change. Not so much waste at the bottom. Fed as usual.
<Okay>
I tested the water the 3rd day, pH was the same and all other reading were almost normal. But noticed red streaks on tail fin.
<"Almost" normal - I assume that means some ammonia, some nitrite?  Elevated nitrate?  This must be rectified with water changes.>
4th day - ph same, ammonia close to 0, nitrites less than 0.3, nitrates medium
5th day - all readings the same, except nitrate level less?
6th day - all readings the same except nitrate levels rising
7th day - ammonia 1 (touch higher), nitrites 0.2 (touch higher), nitrates 7 (higher)
Did 25% water change  (6 days since last water change)
Noticed foam on top of water surface after I had changed the water? Maybe from aerator? Ammonia or bad bacteria in tank?
<Something does seem "off" here....  What kind of test kit(s) are you using?  And again, if you are reading any ammonia and/or nitrite, water changes are crucial....  must keep these at zero.>
Tested water 3 days later to find ammonia close to 0, nitrites 0.1 and nitrates 6
Tested water 2 days later to find ammonia perfect, nitrite 0.1, nitrites 7-8, pH 7.5
Did 25% water change  (6 days since last water change)
<Sounds like the tank is cycling.... perhaps to account for the accumulated waste from overfeeding, and the resultant increased waste output of the fish.>
Feb 1
5 days later fish water was cloudy, sticky and the fish lost two pieces of his tail fin.
<Yeowch>
Why did his water get so bad? His tail fin seems to have white mucky stuff around it? I don't think its ICK.
<No, doesn't sound like ich at all.  Sounds like bacterial fin rot, brought on by the poor water quality....>
His fins have been red for 2 weeks now and have gotten redder each day. All his fins now have red streaks on them. He's still eating well, but sitting at the bottom of his tank most of the time unless disturbed.
<Water changes.... and perhaps an antibacterial medicine, if proper water quality does not improve his fin erosion.>
Changed 80% of his water and put in a new charcoal filter
<Ah, good.>
Added 2 tsps. of salt to the water and another 2 tsps. 12 hours later.
<Perfect, this should help.>
Fish seemed better with salt. Swimming around more. Eating well. Think he's still "flashing" once in awhile.
<Probably still a reaction from the water quality....  keep testing, correcting when necessary.>
Feb 2
He seemed to do well with this addition of salt but I wasn't sure of the dosage so I called an aquarium place in the city.
<.... One to two tablespoons per ten gallons, possibly slightly more for a goldfish, but not by a lot....>
He told me to change 1/3rd of the water (which I had already done yesterday) and to add 7 Tablespoons of salt (less the 4 teaspoons I had already added)
<Oh.  My.  Goodness!  That is a LOT of salt....  FAR more than I would be comfortable recommending....>
and raise the temperature to 80 degrees.
<If the goldfish is dealing with a bacterial infection, this is not a great idea....  For one, bacteria multiply at a greater rate in higher temperatures, and for two, goldfish do not do well in such high temps.>
Then in 3 days, change another 1/3rd of the water and add another 7 Tablespoons of salt.
<WOW.  Okay, so we've got 2/3 of the original 7 tablespoons in there after the water change....  that's 4.67 tablespoons.... PLUS the new 7 tablespoons - up to 11.67 tablespoons....>
He said to continue this every 3 days for 2 weeks.  Thought this was too much salt, so I asked him to repeat this process and he affirmed it.
<Holy wow.  So, just to appease my curiosity, figuring this: we have 11.67 in the water now.  Take away a third of it (water change), we have 7.78 tablespoons, plus the new seven, up to 14.78T....  Three days later, now 16.85T....  Finally ending at 18.23T in a 10 gallon tank - if I'm figuring correctly, that's nearly one fifth the salinity of marine water....Yikes!  Far, FAR too brackish for a goldfish....>
So I did this! Of course dissolving it in a cup with some of the tank water first. Pouring it in very slowly and not directly on fish. By the way, I'm using a pure sea salt.
<Which will *dramatically* affect pH, making it far too high for this animal, especially in the state he's in.  This would wipe out the bacteria, without a doubt, but cause many problems to the fish in and of itself....  more harm than it's worth.>
Feb 4
Changed 1/3 water and added 7 Tablespoons of salt.  Fins a little less red.
Feb 7
Tested water - pH 8, ammonia 0.1, Nitrites 0.2, Nitrates 6, General Hardness 120ppm, Carbonate Hardness 60ppm.  
<The high salinity is probably starting to kill off your nitrifying bacteria, at this point, hence the ammonia and nitrite refusing to settle; water changes, with no salt, are in order....>
Changed 1/3 water and added 6 Tablespoons of salt. Only has redness on tail fin now, but it still seems to have whitish stuff (not ick) around the edges of tail fin.
<Likely the bacteria causing his fin rot have started to die, along with your biological filtration.>
So I'm supposed to do 3 more water changes and add another 21 Tablespoons of salt over the next 8 days. I'm scared about using this much salt!!
<I would be, too!  I'm glad you're concerned!>
Should I do this?
<Frankly, in my opinion?  No!>
He said that if this doesn't work, I could then try "Melafix"?
<I do not stake much on the effectiveness of Melafix.  It may help, and is worth a shot, but you *must* continue water changes, and be diligent about them, as long as you see any ammonia and/or nitrite on your tests.  You may want to consider an antibiotic, like kanamycin or nitrofurazone ("Kanacyn", "Furacyn", and "Spectrogram" are some proprietary names).>
Do you think this is safe?
<The salt?  No.  The Melafix?  Not harmful, may help, might not.>
Should I stop the salt?
<Yes.>
Should I instead be using Melafix or a broad-spectrum antibiotic like furan, kanamycin sulfate, spectrogram, Nitrofuran-G or Maracyn & Maracyn II?
<See now, you've read my mind.  I do not like to recommend the Maracyns unless you know *specifically* what bacteria you are treating - Maracyn I (erythromycin) treats *only* gram-positive bacteria, and Maracyn II (Minocycline) treats *only* gram-negative bacteria.  I would go with kanamycin, nitrofurazone, or a combination of the two; these are my antibiotics of choice.>
Or should I wait until salt treatment is over and then use one of these products?
<I would slowly (over a few to several days) lower the salt, 'till you've got about 2 tablespoons per 10 gallons, then begin treatment with antibiotics (if necessary).  First and foremost are water changes.>
I'm not sure if his fins turned red from the bad water quality,
<This is, if not the entire problem, at least what started it.>
from parasites,
<Unlikely, from your descriptions>
or he has a bacteria infection.
<Quite possible.>
Would he have Fin or Tail Rot?
<Likely.>
He has never lost his appetite!!
<A *wonderful* sign!  What tough fish there are in the world!>
I'm sorry this was such a long letter, but I am concerned about the salt.
<Goodness, don't be sorry!  The more detailed the description, the better - and *certainly* don't be sorry about being concerned for your fish!  That's a good thing.>
Hope you can at least lead me in the right direction.
<I hope so, too.>
Thank you for your time.
<Any time - glad to be of service.>
Teri Odenthal
<Wishing you and your salty goldfish well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - II - 02/14/2004
Hello
<Hello again, Teri!>
Thank you so much for responding to my email.
<You bet.>
I have to admit that this goldfish actually belongs to my friend, and she wanted me to try and help her. She continued to follow the advice given to her my the aquarium guy in the city, but has now realized that this "salt treatment" he recommended is too much!!
Anyways, this is a continuation from my last email, ending on February 7th, when I last tested and changed the water for my friend (I do this for her when she's working):
Feb 10th
My friend, still convinced that this aquarium fellow knew his stuff, changed 1/3 water, added 7 Tbls. salt, (I figure the fish has about 17 Tablespoons in his 10 gallon tank now?) added 1 capful "cycle". and left temperature at 80 degrees.
Feb 13th
Finally after my friend read your email, she started to worry about adding this much salt. She changed 1/3rd of the water, added 1 capful of "cycle", changed the carbon filter and did not add anymore salt. Or should we add a little to lower the quantity slowly?
<I would not add any; just do water changes daily to lower the salinity.  If you need to do large water changes, as I suspect you will (nitrifying bacteria may have died off), then figure how much is in the tank now, and add some salt to the water change water, so as not to bring the salinity down too rapidly - don't want to shock the fish.>
She is slowly lowering the temperature. It is now at 78 degrees and she will continue to lower it over the next few days until it reaches about 74 degrees.
<Even lower is better with goldfish; this is a coldwater fish by nature.>
She told me the fishes tail fin had some red on it again, but it was a lot darker colored than before, and that the fish was still swimming quite fast around the tank and settled down in the corner so quietly.
<Redness is a sign of irritation from something in the water being inadequate - I suspect ammonia and/or nitrite.>
He is still eating good. Was last fed this morning. She said the water looked very clean, but I told her to test the water.
<Definitely.  Just looking "clean" really gives absolutely *no* insight into water quality.>
These tests of course would be after the 1/3rd water change. Ammonia 0-0.1, Nitrites 0.1-0.2, Nitrates 10?.
<Again, what sort of test kit(s) are you/she using?  If she's reading ammonia and nitrite even *after* a 1/3 water change - yeah, I'm sure the fish is having to endure lots of ammonia and nitrite issues.  The tank will re-cycle as you come down in salinity, and may require even daily water changes to keep the fish healthy.>
She did not check the pH. I bet its too high though!
<With all the sea salt?  Likely.>
She then added another capful of "cycle" and will check the water again tonight. If it's still off? Should we do another water change so soon and how much?
<As much as necessary to keep the ammonia and nitrite down.>
Do we add more salt?
<If you do large water changes, yes, I would add some salt, so as not to shock the fish by changing the water properties too quickly.>
She thought of using Melafix or the antibiotics you mentioned also. Should we try Melafix first
<I do not have a high opinion of MelaFix; it is worth a try, if you are interested.  It may help.  It shouldn't hurt, at least.>
and can we use it with salt in the water?
<Yes.>
Or just go straight to the antibiotics?
<If you see a white or milky edge to the eroded fin, I would probably go ahead with a mild antibiotic.  I would not do this until you've gotten the salt content to a manageable level, though.  This will also give you a handful of days to observe the fish and see if he begins to improve on his own with improved water quality.>
I think its scary using antibiotics, no?
<Not if used properly.  Again, my antibiotics of choice are nitrofurazone and Kanamycin; the very low dosages of them in Aquatronics' medications (Furacyn, Kanacyn, Spectrogram) provides for a very mild treatment.  I have not had any fish react adversely to either.>
Thank you for reading this again,
<Any time!  Truly, glad to be of service.>
Teri and my friend with her beloved salty goldfish
<Wishing you, your friend, and the salted fish well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - III - 02/14/2004
Hello Sabrina
<Hi, again!>
Thank you again for your email and for answering my questions so thoroughly.  We are so relived to correspond with you about our "salty goldfish".
<Any time, really.  So glad to be of service.>
Thank goodness for email!!
<Indeed!  What a valuable resource communication is!>
Yes, we figure that salt has played havoc with the biological system because we were already changing 1/3 of the water every 3 days. We didn't have a problem with the water when we used to change it once a week, before the overfeeding episode of course!!
<Heh, when it rains, it pours!>
Guess he could have a 20 gallon tank.  I have not talked to my friend "Karen" yet after she tested the water last night, so I don't know what the readings were, or if she had to change some more water. I did print out your last email to us and left it at her house.  I peeked through the window to see the fishy and he seemed to be swimming around normally.
<Swimming is always good.>
By the way, we are using:
A-7820 Hagen Test Kit - Ammonia for Freshwater - 0.0 - 7.3 mg/l- 70 tests
A-7825 Hagen Test Kit - Nitrite Test-Fresh and Salt water Nitrite Test- 0.0 - 3.3 mg/l- 75 tests
A-7845 Hagen Test Kit - Nitrate-For Fresh and Salt Water- 0.0 - 110.0 mg/l-80 tests
A-7815 Hagen Test Kit - pH Wide Range 4.5 - 9.0- for Freshwater and Saltwater- 100 tests
A-7830 Hagen Test Kit Carbonate and Total Hardness For Fresh and Salt Water
<Sounds good.>
From Feb 1 - Feb 10 (gone from 7 up to 17 Tablespoons of salt)
Feb 14 - removed about 5 Tablespoons with 1/3 water change. Is losing 5 Tablespoons too shocking for fish?
<Mm, possibly, the best way to gauge this is through using a hydrometer.... the SeaTest box-type is the only one that I know of that reads low enough for this purpose (the new Marineland one might, as well).  I would not add it back at this point, though, as he's already acclimated to the lower salt level - that's certainly better than going up and down quickly & repeatedly.>
So I figure that there is about 12 Tablespoons of salt left in the tank, unless she has changed some more water since. I hope that if she has already done a large 80% or so water change, she will read your email soon and add some salt so the fish is not shocked by the change in salinity. If she has changed close to 80%, that removes 9 1/2 tablespoons of salt? leaving us with 2 1/5 Tablespoons in tank? She should add how much salt? Maybe 4 Tablespoons?
<Again, if the fish has had time to acclimate, I would not add any back.>
If the water readings are okay, we will continue to change a small amount everyday until about 2 Tablespoons are left. Maybe adding back half of what we take out?
<Sounds good.... again, the best way to deal with this is using a hydrometer, so you can better understand how much salt is in there.  However, goldfish are such resilient fish, it is likely not necessary to be terribly accurate.>
I'd better get off the computer in case she's trying to phone me.
Thank you so much!!
<Any time.>
Teri
<Wishing you and all well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - IV - 02/18/2004
Hello again
<Hi, Teri!>
Saturday Feb 14, as noted in "salty goldfish part III" we changed 1/3 water and did not add anymore salt. 12 Tablespoons left in tank. Added 2 capfuls of "Cycle" and changed the carbon filter. Tested water after this water change.  Ammonia 0-0.1, Nitrite 0.1-0.2, Nitrates 10. Lowering temperature from 80 degrees to eventually 74 degrees or less.
<Wonderful.  Keep up with the water changes, please try to get ammonia and nitrite to zero.  What is the pH looking like?>
Sunday Feb 15, the next day , she changed 15% of water and did not add salt. 10.2 Tablespoons still in tank.
<Okay>
Tuesday Feb 17. I tested the water - temperature at 76 degrees now, pH 8, ammonia 0.1, nitrites close to 0.1, nitrates 5. I suggested she change 30-40% of water, clean the carbon filter and add 1 tablespoon of salt. This would leave 7-8 tablespoons of salt in the tank.
<Cool.  How big of a tank again?>
Wednesday Feb 18 we will test the water again. I want the ammonia and nitrites to read 0, right?
<Yes, exactly.  And try to keep nitrates less than 20ppm, which you are currently well under.>
The fishes red fins looked better on Feb 4th after there were 12 tablespoons of salt in his tank and/or when water quality was finally better after changing 30% every 3 days.
<Improvement in water quality is the likelier one, I wager.>
They started to turn red again anywhere from or after Feb 7th after there was 14-17 tablespoons of salt in his tank and are still getting quite red again. Otherwise he's eating and acting quite normal.
<Sounds good, except for the redness in the fins.  With lowering salinity and pH back to normal, and improving water quality, I expect this will subside.>
So, I think I've concluded that the salt will help relieve stress from poor water quality only if the water quality is improved first.
<Agreed.>
It will not help if the water quality is poor, nor will it help keeping a bit of salt in the water to help prevent stress in a fish if the water accidentally gets bad.
<Agreed, again.  Water quality is of paramount importance.>
His fins turned red before we started removing any salt from his tank. I think I'm convinced that too much salt killed the good bacteria and caused bad water quality, but were these readings of ammonia and nitrite enough to redden his fins?
<Yes.>
Could the large amount of salt itself have caused stress and the return of the red fins?
<Yes.  Or the heightened pH from the buffers in the marine salt.>
He started to look better with the salt treatment before, would you advice leaving some salt in the tank for awhile to see if his red fins heal again after we correct the water quality?
<I keep many/most of my freshwater tanks salted at a rate of one to two tablespoons per ten gallons of water.  You may wish to use a salt marketed for freshwater use, as this will not influence your pH.>
Thank you so much again for reading this!!
<Any time, really, glad to help in any way.>
Teri, Karen and Salty Goldfish
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - V - 02/23/2004
Hello Sabrina
<Hi again, Teri!  Hope all is well.>
My girlfriend phoned me Sunday Feb 22. The goldfishes fins are still red and getting worse. The dorsal fin has a red spot on it too.
<Drat.  What are the water parameters at this time?>
Seems we're starting all over again. He's still eating but darts around once in awhile.
<Signs of irritation....  could just be the salt and water parameters, could be illness.>
We've been changing about 20% of his water every other day. Salt in tank is approximately 6 Tablespoons now.
<Forgive me, please refresh my memory - what size tank is it, again?>
We are having someone pickup "Melafix" for us today.
<Although I am quite skeptical at the effectiveness of this stuff, it is at least not harmful, and does seem to help speed up regeneration of damaged fins.>
I'm also having him check on "Aquatronics" A 3 Kanacyn, A9 Nitrofura-G or A10 Furacyn. Do these antibiotics have both nitrofurazone and Kanamycin in them?
<No.  Kanacyn is Kanamycin sulfate, Furacyn is just nitrofurazone, and Nitrofura-G is Furazolidone.  As far as I know, Spectrogram is the only Aquatronics med that combines both nitrofurazone and Kanamycin.>
What about other brands if we can't buy "Aquatronics" here?
<There are certainly other brands/options.  The reason I recommend Aquatronics above others is simply due to their very wide selection of effective products.>
You said "Aquatronics" antibiotics provides a mild treatment.
<Indeed, they tend to have low (but still effective) dosages.>
Nobody around here seems to carry Spectrogram; which I read has both nitrofurazone & Kanamycin as active ingredients. I could order it through the mail if necessary though.
<I do not believe it is utterly necessary to use that particular product....  My next preference would be either Kanacyn or Furacyn>
They do all carry "Mardel" Maracyn 1 and Maracyn II, which I read can be used together without damage to the biological filter?
<I would rather say little damage to biological bacteria; these are both pretty mild on our nitrifying pals.  HOWEVER,  I will not recommend using both Maracyn I and II at the same time.  It is not the nitrifying bacteria that I would fear for, but the fish.  I have tried twice to treat using both of these at the same time, once on a terribly ill fish, and once on a group of not-very-ill fish, and in both instances, the fish reacted horribly to having so much medication in the water, even only several minutes after adding the second med.  I will not repeat that procedure, and I will not recommend it to others.>
You said you would not use them though.
<Mm, yes, true, but don't take that to mean that these aren't good products.  The issue with them is that Maracyn I is erythromycin, which is only effective against gram-positive bacteria (that's bacteria that do have a cell wall), and Maracyn II is minocycline, which is only effective against gram-negative bacteria (that's bacteria that do *not* have a cell wall).  I don't like to recommend these unless the person asking is very, very positive of what illness (and therefore, what bacteria) they are dealing with; if the bacteria is misdiagnosed, and the person uses the wrong one, it will be completely ineffective, and the fish is out of luck.  I will never recommend using both Maracyn I and Maracyn II at the same time, as above.>
I don't think they contain nitrofurazone & Kanamycin?
<Correct, as above.>
If we decide to use an antibiotic and I finally understand which one to use, is there any precautions?
<Follow the directions, to the letter.  When treating, keep in mind that a ten gallon tank with two inches of sand in the bottom is not containing ten gallons of water; try to account for water displaced by decor and substrate.  Some medications are safe to overdose (or even double - or triple - dose) and some are safe to use in conjunction with certain others.>
What do we do about the biological filter? Do we have to re-cycle the tank again after treatment?
<Depends upon what med you use.  I would still recommend Spectrogram (Kanamycin & nitrofurazone); failing that, I would recommend Kanacyn (Kanamycin).  There are several other antibiotics available that would be effective as well; these are simply what I have had wonderful results with, especially in treating goldfish.  They are also very, very mild on biological filtration.>
What about the dissolved oxygen level in the water? Medications "antibiotics" lower the level, right?
<If you do not have a test kit for oxygen, you can add an airstone to the tank if you feel it necessary.  The goldie would probably enjoy that, as well.  Otherwise, do keep an eye on the fish for labored breathing.>
Should we have left the temperature closer to 80 degrees if he was not healing? Its at about 76 degrees now.
<I would (slowly) drop the temp further; high temps will increase the rate at which bacteria multiply.  Plus, with lower temps, there are higher levels of dissolved O2.  And on top of that, goldfish prefer cooler water; it might make him feel a bit better.>
I know his symptoms were getting better after the salt treatment, water changes, the temperature at 80 degrees and then started to reappear at the highest level of salt, even after same amount of water changes and before we started to lower the temperature.
<If it were me, I might seriously consider medicating at this point.  I have always had goldfish respond very well to Kanamycin and (although I am skeptical as to its abilities) MelaFix.  These can safely be used together.  The Aquatronics' dose for Kanamycin in Kanacyn is low enough, you need not make adjustments as to exact volume of water (for example, one whole capsule for one ten gallon tank).>
Anyways, I will observe goldfish today and see what his fins look like. You know they never really looked like "fin rot". Does losing pieces of his tail fins, like he did 2 weeks ago, mean he has "fin rot"?
<It could be a strong indicator.  So far, it does sound possibly like a bacterial issue; I have not seen anything in your emails that would indicate parasitic problems to me.  Though the fish may simply be irritated by the water parameters and salt, I think I would medicate.  A photograph of the fish's affected fins would be great, if you can provide it.>
I should keep my questions to a minimum, heh?
<No, not at all!  Truly, I am glad to help....  the more I can help, the better.  I'm glad you are so eager to know more about your fish.  I can recommend some good titles on fish health, if you're interested?>
Oh well, the whole picture is getting clearer thanks to you!!  Teri
<Glad to hear it.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - VI - 02/28/2004
Hello Sabrina
<Hi, Teri!>
Me again!
<No, not you again!  Just kidding.  ;) >
I want to try to make this as short as possible.
<Not necessary....  do feel free to take your time, be as lengthy as necessary.>
We have a 10 gallon tank and I have attached "Our Goldfish Daily Record" and pictures of our fish.
<Yes, thank you, the pics are immensely helpful.  By the way, *excellent* record keeping.>
As you can see we have not used "Melafix" or "Antibiotics" yet.  
<I would do so....  It looks to me that you might be dealing with fin rot, from the pics.>
Please excuse our figuring on the salt levels left in tank. We did not buy a tool to measure the salt accurately. Aquatronics products are no longer sold in Canada?
<Mm, didn't realize you were in Canada.  Or more likely, I did, and I forgot.  And again, Aquatronics are certainly not the only product available to use; I usually recommend them as they are usually very available locally in the US, and have a very broad selection.  There are certainly other good products out there!>
I could order them online. I did purchase an antibiotic though. I have attached a page on this "Seachem" product.  
<The "Kanaplex", yes?  This would be absolutely fine.  I didn't realize Seachem sold antibiotics other than Metronidazole....  this is good to know!>
As you will see, our water tests are finally great. Not sure about pH though?  
<A pH of 8.0 can be quite irritating for goldfish.  What is the pH from your tapwater (or whatever source water you use for the tank)?  Do please start using a salt marketed for freshwater use as you do water changes to replace the saltwater mix.  It will lack the buffers of the saltwater mix that is causing your pH to stay high.>
We were getting ready to start treatments with Melafix and/or Antibiotics, but now we're more concerned about the scratching, darting.
<Quite likely attributable to the high pH.  Do keep your eyes open, though, be on the lookout for any other developments, like ich.  Again, I think this is a result of the irritation from the high pH.  My pond fish show these signs in the summer when our tap water jumps up in pH (from 8.3 in the winter to 9.2(!!) in the summer) if I have not tested the tap and become aware of the pH issue before a water change in the pond.>
I will change about 20% water Thursday morning because I there's poop on the bottom and his filter is plugged up again with brownie wastes. Wish me luck!
<Good luck!>
Karen's not home till Friday and I hope fishy doesn't decide to jump out!! He probably won't. I'm being paranoid!! It’s getting a bit frustrating isn't it?  
<It is always frustrating dealing with sick fish.  Don't worry, you're not alone in this.>
Thank you for reading and looking at all this.
<Any time.>
And again thanks for all your help.
<One last comment/suggestion:  I assume the pics are of fishy's permanent home, yes?  It would probably make him feel better and safer if he had a couple spots to hide if he felt necessary.  A couple of fake plants and a (new, clean) terracotta flowerpot would make him quite at home.  Once you're done helping him get healthy again, I would very strongly recommend getting some greens in his diet; a few pieces of anacharis/elodea (a water plant that goldfish like to eat) would make him quite happy, I'm sure.  Also, shelled peas, blanched veggies like zucchini, cucumber, or spinach would be a good supplement.  There are also some good frozen veggie foods, like Ocean Nutrition's "Formula Two", that you can find at the fish store.  Keep in mind, these fish are vegetarians by nature, and unfortunately, a diet of only pelleted or flake foods can lead to some health complications, like constipation and bloating.  Adding some plant matter into his diet will prevent this (and taste yummy, too).>
Teri & Fishy
<Do please keep in touch!  Wishing you, Fishy, et al well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - VII - 03/07/2004
Hello Sabrina
<Hello, Teri!>
Thank you again for your reply on February 28th.
<You bet.>
My computer was down for a few days, so I couldn't send you a update until now.
<No problem.>
The last record I sent to you ended on Wednesday Feb. 25 with fish darting around on the bottom of tank off and on. Can't remember if I told you that the red spot on her dorsal fin was gone and that the part of her upper tail fin that fell off a couple of weeks ago is starting to grow back.
<Ah, wonderful news, for sure!>
Thursday Feb 26 - fish seemed pretty normal this morning. Didn't jump the tank, thank god!!  Water readings perfect. pH still at 8. Temperature 76 degrees. Changed 25% water (4 days since last change). I am babysitting her today so I did not spend all day with her but when I checked her this afternoon and this evening, she wasn't doing any darting around. Did notice she was holding her body vertically up with head towards the water return once in a while. She really seemed to like swimming under the new water I was pouring in.
<Fish that are having (or recovering from) some sort of irritation will certainly do this.  It probably feels good to have the water flowing on and around them, soothes their itchin'.>
Friday Feb 27 - Karen was back home and said fish was darting around the tank this evening quite hard.
<Uh, please forgive me, I'm having a huge brainfart.  I've probably asked this, but as it is an incredibly important issue, I will kick myself if I don't confirm - are you using a dechlorinator when you do water changes?  Something that removes both "chlorine" and "chloramine"?>
Saturday Feb 28 - fish still darting around once in awhile. Water looking a little cloudy. Water readings still good though pH is hard to read on color chart, but I think its gone down to about 7.9?  Sunday Feb 29 - fish still darting around. Not hanging out by water flow now. Water readings - pH the same, ammonia 0.1, nitrites 0.2, nitrates 5. Water cloudier than yesterday. Mostly because of white slimy stuff from her fins.
<How are those fins lookin'?  Any better?>
Did a 30% water change and added weekly dose of "cycle".  We're surprised she hasn't hurt herself from her strong darts across the tank!  Monday Mar 1 - removed carbon from filter cartridge, added 1 teaspoon of "Melafix" Temperature now at 75 degrees.  Tuesday Mar 2 - Karen wasn't comfortable with all the brown mucky stuff on gravel and rocks (which the tank has always gotten for years now) so she decided to take the gravel out (not the fish) and clean it and also cleaned the glass inside. She usually does this once in a while.
<Yikes - huge tank cleanings like this will completely wipe out the nitrifying bacteria that we need in our tanks!  Siphoning the gravel using a gravel vacuum will remove detritus from the gravel.  If the gravel is too large to vacuum, I would recommend (slowly) replacing with a smaller grade gravel.  It should never be necessary to completely clean the tank.>
She then added 1 Tablespoon of "Freshwater Aquarium Salt" and 2 teaspoons of "Melafix". Figure we didn't have anymore than maybe 1 Tablespoon of "sea salt" left in tank by now.
<Sounds great.>
Wednesday Mar 3 - fish seems very happy. She's does a few fast swims back and forth sometimes, but no hard darting back and forth! We were very happy!!
We are lowering her temperature to 74 over the next 12 hours.
<I'm sure those cooler temperatures are feeling good by now!>
Will continue to add 1 teaspoon of "Melafix" daily to her tank until Monday
(7 days of treatment). Might have to do another water change again before Monday, but we'll just adjust the dosage of "Melafix" somehow.
<Exactly.  Just compensate for the amount removed in the water change.>
Parts of her tail fins are still bright red, so if the good water quality and/or "Melafix" doesn't clear it up, we'll use the Kanaplex antibiotics.
<Sounds like a plan.  Uh, I'm still curious on the dechlorinator issue....>
Thank you for all your advice on the fishies home and diet. We are looking into getting a 20 gallon tank for her, so we can add some more decorations to her home.
<Oh, wonderful!!>
Terracotta pot is a great idea! Karen used to have a lot more rocks and decorations in this tank,  but when the fish got bigger she removed them. She mainly feeds her green pellets but does give her shelled peas and some frozen bloodworms once in awhile. Fishy loves them. Thanks for the other food idea's!
<You betcha.>
Please let me know what you think or if you have any further suggestions for us and fishy. I'll keep in touch and let you know what's happening.
<Please do.>
Teri, Karen & Fishy
<Wishing you all well,  -Sabrina>  

Saltwater Goldfish?! - VIII & IX - 03/15/2004
Hi Sabrina
<Hi again, Terri!>
Yes, we do use AquaPlus which claims to take care of any "chlorine" and "chloramine" in the water.
<Ah, whew!  What great relief.>
We've been adding 1 teaspoon of Melafix every day now for 7 days with one water change in-between of 25%. We did leave the filter cartridge in the pump but removed the carbon from the filter for this week, so that the foamy material would still catch any debris from the tank. The pH is still around 8 and ammonia and nitrite have been kept at 0. Nitrates are also low. Figure we have about 2 Tbls of aquarium salt in tank. The temperature is now at 74 degrees.
<Yay, better and better.>
Her fins are looking better and she's eating well, but yesterday on her 7th day of Melafix treatment, I noticed that about 15 minutes after I added Melafix, she shook or shivered a bit and then did a few darts on the bottom of tank. Didn't notice her doing anything weird after that