RainbowF2

New Tank question, stkg. Melanotaeniids, Colisa lalia 3/12/08
Hello. I am new to aquariums and have purchased several books and read tons on your site (which has been VERY helpful) in an attempt to be the best fish owner possible. I have some questions that I can't seem to find specific answers to, even though I have done several searches on your site.
Some background info:
I purchased my fish from a local fish store that has the best reputation in the area. These are the fish (all locally raised) I purchased based on their advice:
3 angels (started with 4, one just died after a bout with an eye infection fish store thinks was due to injury - I removed sharp fake rocks)
<Bad choice for your first aquarium, and for what it's worth, the eye infection is more likely aggression between the Angels followed by a secondary infection. Fish just don't normally scratch themselves.>
3 turquoise Gourami (again started with 4 but one died almost instantly, fish store said sometimes that "just happens"!??)
<Fish Store somewhat correct. These are Colisa lalia, a fish that is plagued with an incurable viral disease. Inbred forms like the turquoise variety are even more flimsy than otherwise. Colisa lalia is a complete waste of money.>
2 blue rainbow
<Should be kept in groups of at least six specimens: Melanotaenia spp. are schooling fish, so what you're doing is cruel. Depending on precisely what species you have, these may be too large for your tank. Many Melanotaenia reach 12-15 cm.>
2 Hoplo catfish (acquired about 3 months after the others)
<Far too large for your aquarium; Hoplosternum littorale gets to over 15 cm in length and is extremely boisterous in temperament. A superb choice for a 55 gallon tank; an appalling one for anything smaller.>
I have a 29 gallon tank that I set up and let run for 2 weeks before purchasing any fish.
<Just "running" isn't enough -- how did you mature the filter? What source of ammonia did you add? Ammonia from a bottle? Bits of rotting shellfish? If you did nothing, and just let it sit there, then it is no more cycled after two weeks than it was when you started.>
All the fish did fine in their new home (excepting the one Gourami). I test my water regularly and do a 20-30% water change every week. I have had the tank set up for almost 6 months so now I am in the process of adding live plants. (I put in 2 live plants a couple of weeks ago and they did well so I just added some more).
So now on to the question(s):
What is the best temperature for this grouping of fish? The fish store said 72F but everything I read says it should be warmer. Should I listen to local advise or let majority rule?
<Neither. Science isn't democratic or based on local wisdom. Each fish has its own preferences dependent on its point of origin. Buy and read a decent aquarium book so you don't have to depend on what the guy in the shop says. Aiming for 25 C/77F would be about right for your fish.>
I have been having a heck of a time keeping the water quality stable. It seems I am always fighting against high ammonia or high nitrites/nitrates. Since I monitor this regularly, I am able to take corrective action before I get any further than the "mildly stressful" levels according to the test kits - but I would REALLY like to get everything stable and not always be worrying about what is going wrong!!
<Poor water quality depends on three factors: stocking, food, and filtration. If you are getting poor water quality even six months after setting the tank up, then you are either overstocked, overfeeding, and/or under-filtering. Pick and choose from these. Do also check you aren't doing anything stupid like killing the filter bacteria every time you open the filter, for example by changing all the media or running the media under a hot tap.>
I have hard water with a pH of 6.8 and currently my ammonia and nitrite readings are 0.
<Fine.>
I think maybe I am feeding too much? I read that as long as all the food is eaten in a couple of minutes, then it is the correct amount.
<Depends on the fish and the food. A juvenile Angelfish for example needs 3-4 "flakes" per day. Consider each flake about the same a medium-sized steak would be to a human. Alternately, a single wet-frozen cube of bloodworms would be adequate for all your fish for one day. Fish need very small amounts of food.>
My fish do eat all the food in that time period and come to the top afterward acting like they are starving, so could it be I am still feeding too much?
<Maybe.>
How do you know exactly how much to feed? This question has been driving me crazy for six months! I alternate between flake food and frozen brine shrimp, and I just started giving seaweed 1-2 times a week. I don't want to overfeed but I also don't want my fish to be hungry!
<Well-fed fish should have a gently rounded abdomen. If the abdomen looks chunky or swollen, you're overfeeding; if the ventral surface is concave or "knife-edge" in appearance, you're underfeeding.>
Then I just got a new filter. The one I had was an used AquaClear 70 that worked OK but made a horrible racket and I just couldn't take the noise any more! So I purchased a Marineland Emperor 400 (for up to 80 gallon tank) as I liked the idea of the bio-wheels and not risking the biological filtration every time I cleaned the filter. I know this is big for my tank but I went with the assumption that it would keep the water cleaner (and maybe therefore help stabilize everything) and also I hope to get a bigger tank in the future and this way I won't have to buy another new filter. I added the filter material from the old filter to start with (planning to remove it in a couple of weeks) in an attempt to keep the biological filtration going - I have no idea if this worked.
<Should do, but don't remove the old filter media for at least 6 weeks.>
But this filter makes the water much more active and I don't know if my fish like it! My Gouramis are turning darker since the change, even though they are eating and swimming normally. Is this grouping of fish OK with active water or should I change back to a smaller filter that won't move the water so much? They are all swimming around fine, not seeming to be buffeted or anything, but I notice it especially when feeding as the flakes now move rapidly around the tank and the fish get pretty hyper chasing the food. Is this stressful? My rainbows are chasing each other at feeding time and they never used to do that.
<What matters is water turnover. Look at your filter: it will have a turnover rating in gallons (or litres) per hour. Compare this to your tank. You are after 4-6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour.>
I raised the water temperature to 77F when I was dealing with the hurt angel (per fish store) and I haven't lowered it yet. Could that be the reason for the hyper behavior and color changes?
<No idea, but leave the temperature there anyway.>
Overall my fish seem happy with each other and the new plants (nibbling on them and hiding in them), but the angels are starting to get really big and I know the rainbows and Hoplo can get big too so I am worried about whether they will continue to get along. Or if maybe the angels are harassing the Gouramis and that is the reason for them getting darker colored?
<Possible, and the Hoplosternum are also a bit more robust that one would normally want with Gouramis.>
I also notice a white area on 2 of the Gouramis (it is not raised or cottony or anything, looks more like a small layer of scales is gone) which makes me wonder if there is some fighting going on of which I am not aware.
<Or the start of Dwarf Gourami Iridovirus.>
I want to be a good fish owner and I love my fish, but so far I have spent much more time worrying than enjoying! How do I create a happy, stable aquarium environment?
<Primarily by reading first. Knowledge is power.>
I apologize for the long message. Thanks so much for your help and all the invaluable information on your website!
Cathy
<Good luck, Neale.>

Re: New Tank question... Outside power filter 3/14/08
Thank you for your response to my questions. Your response has raised two more questions. I did search your site before writing to you again, and I spent almost 3 hours reading without finding the answers to my questions, so I hope it's OK to write to you again.
<It's fine! Ask away!>
The first is concerning the fish I was advised to purchase. I am stuck with these fish now and want to make the best of the situation.
<Agreed.>
I feel really bad about the rainbows and plan to get a larger tank and more rainbows as soon as it is possible. So that leads to my question - I have already had these fish for 6 months and am not sure how long it will take me to gather the money for the larger tank set-up - at that point, I can only assume that the rainbow fish I have are going to be a good bit larger than the new fish. Is this going to be a problem in terms of them getting along and schooling, etc.?
<Shouldn't be a problem. Rainbowfish usually school with one another happily regardless of size. Mature males might chase one another, but normally no harm is done.>
I'm also very aggravated that they told me to get the hoplos as I told them I wanted two small catfish... and they were small when I got them :-) but have grown an enormous amount already and are very, very active - running into/over all the other fish if they happen to be in their way
<Indeed, Hoplosternum littorale is far from a "small" catfish.>
The 2nd question regards my new filter... it turns over 400 gallons per hours. I have a 29 gallon tank so this is obviously more than 4 to 6 times the volume of the tank. Does that mean I am now over-filtering?
<Seriously? 400 gallons per hour is a HUGE filter. This would be a top-of-the-line filter costing several hundred dollars and would be churning a 29 gallon tank into something like Niagara Falls! I'm pretty sure you're misreading something, and what you have is a 400 litres per hour filter, which is pretty standard for an entry-level filter. 400 litres is about 100 US gallons, or in other words a turnover about 3 and a bit times the volume of your tank per hour. Under-filtering rather than over-filtering.>
Do I need to get rid of this filter and get something smaller? I am reluctant to do that (since I am planning to get a bigger tank), but I will if it is what is best for the fish.
<Save up for the aquarium. At this point your problem is you have a bunch of fish that need a bit more space than you have. I'd recommend at least 55 US gallons. To keep costs down, save up for that tank and then install an undergravel filter. Coupled with the filter you already have, these two different filters will combine to provide excellent water quality. Undergravel filters aren't compatible with plants that have roots, but they're fine with floating plants and plants stuck to rocks (like Anubias and Java fern). Old school technology perhaps, but cheap and effective.>
Thanks again for your help!
Cathy
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: New Tank question... filter
According to the box, my filter does run 400 gallons per hour (see specs below)! It is a huge filter - taking up most of the back of the tank. I paid around $80.00 for it. The water is active but not churning... should I get something smaller? Or maybe just figure out how to adjust the flow pump (that wasn't in the directions)?
Thanks!
Cathy
Marineland - Emperor 400 Power Filters
*Model Number **400*
*Flow Rate (L/H) * 1500
*Aquarium Size (L) *<300
*Flow Rate (GPH) * 400
*Aquarium Size (G) * <80
<Hi Cathy. Okely dokely; my mistake. But seriously, a 400 gallon per hour filter on a 29 gallon tank will have a turnover of more than 13 times per hour. That's more than the average marine aquarium! I can't imagine angelfish and other community fish of that sort being happy. The normal turnover for community tanks with freshwater fish is between 4-6 times per hour. In other words, just as the ratings suggest, this filter would be ideal for an 80 gallon tank (5 x 80 = 400). So yes, I'd be looking for a smaller filter, and would save this one for as/when you get a large tank. Cheers, Neale.>

An addendum: Regarding Emperor 400 filter On 3/14/08 Neale answered a question from Cathy (Re: New Tank question) 3/15/08
Hi there, Crew! I just had a note to add. Regarding Emperor 400 filter On 3/14/08 Neale answered a question from Cathy (Re: New Tank
question) regarding her Emperor 400 filter on her 29 gallon tank.
Neale suspected that this filter couldn't possibly be so vigorous as 400 gph, but this is actually what it is rated at! In fact, I've seen
two of these filters powering a 250 gallon tank with a single Koi, at my fave Pan Asian restaurant. It seems to suffice.
This web page explains some basic modifications you can make to maximize efficiency:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/power_filter_tricks_v.php
Emperor filters are workhorses, and they do deliver ample flow.
Unfortunately, these filters are the "cartridge type" with some blue floss and crumbles of carbon in a grid...I *highly* recommend to anyone who uses them, that they swap out the disposable cartridges for the largest AquaClear media they can find. Specifically the foam sponges and the Biomax bags. All of my tanks have hang-on back filters (some also employ canister filtration) and I use AquaClear media on all of the hang-on back filters, even though some of them are not AquaClears. The AquaClear media comes in an array of sizes, so will fit most any HOB filter. Rinseable, reusable media is the way to go!
Incidentally, that filter must be roiling the water on that 29 gallon tank a whole lot. Since as I recall, Cathy has three dwarf Gouramis in there, maybe she should try to diffuse that flow a bit. One suggestion would be to secure floating plastic plants just under the filter's flow path. Some black binder clips holding up the plants on either side of the filter ought to do the trick, although a more elegant and lasting solution could probably be effected eventually. Just food for thought!
As always, thank you for all your efforts.
Nicole
<Thanks much for this Nicole. Will send along to NealeM and accumulate. Bob Fenner>

<As Bob said, thanks for this. Without the filter being named in the original e-mail, I simply had a hard time imagining anyone would put such a big filter on such a small tank. But I was wrong! I agree with you, the water current is perhaps overkill for Gouramis, but then again, I imagine the "gallons per hour" of the average Southeast Asian river is pretty substantial, too! Cheers, Neale.>