Prayer for a Koran in a Reef
Bob
I am in the planning stage of combining my 75 gal. FOWLR and my 55 gal. reef into a single 125+ gal. reef. The current inhabitants of the FO system are a large purple tang and a juvenile Koran angel, both of which I am quite attached to. My question is this: can the Koran be kept in a reef system, or will it eat the coral (polyps specifically)? It seems that I read this at one time or another, but I am not really sure, as it was long ago....
Tanks, Ryan Goltz
>>
You know, by and large I know that current sentiments side against the keeping of large Pacific (or any ocean) marine angels in with corals et al. reef creatures, but I'd definitely give yours a try. Have just spent another couple of weeks in Fiji, and you know what they have in/on their shallow water reefs? Koran, aka semicircle (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) angelfishes... and you have 125 gallons or so... Again, I'd go for it and if the angel develops a bad polyp habit, you can trade it in.
Bob Fenner 

Live Rock & Angelfish
Hey Guys,
How is it going?
<Pretty good. Hope all is well with you.>
I have a question about the live rock in my tank. My tank has been set up for about two years now, with live sand and live rock. The live rock some how does not look live anymore, the purple coralline growth is not as lush as it once was. Although the tank up as a reef with live rock/sand, I have no corals. I keep angels in this set up. I also keep live rock in my sump instead of the bio balls. My question what should I do to see growth and life form from these rocks, is there something I can add to help or do I have to replace the rocks. I want to see stuff growing from the rocks, is this still achievable or do I have to start over.
<Merely monitor and dose for calcium and alkalinity to encourage more coralline growth. I would wager that your angelfish are scourging the rock, too, hampering growth of all sorts of live creatures.>
Also, I have a juvenile emperor angel that is changing over and I have a juvenile chrysurus (spelling probably not right) angel from Africa I was told,
<Pretty close, Pomacanthus chrysurus, and it is found on the east coast of Africa. Sorry to say, an angelfish with a very mixed history, some report them as doing well others very poorly dying mysteriously in months.>
it has similar coloration to emperor although much smaller. It is now in quarantine and can probably stay there for a while as it about 2 1/2 inches small, my question is if I decide to put it in the same tank as the emperor is it likely that the emperor would bother it because they are of the same coloration.
<Very likely. Extremely likely. Not a wise choice.>
I ask because I notice in my LFS angels with like colors are often separated. The tank is a 125 gallon with lots of caves and holes for hiding. Thanks for you help and keep up the good work. ~Gillian
<You are welcome. Sorry for all the bad news. In the future, better to solicit this kind of information before the purchase. -Steven Pro>

Angelfish Follow-up (Pomacanthus)
Hi Steven, thanks for the information, but the research I did even on WWM site said the this species was rare but not found enough in the trade, so I took that as meaning that it was not a bad pick, ah well. From your knowledge are there any tips you can give as far as raising this species.
<Near reef tank conditions to encourage the fish to eat from the rock and feel comfortable.>
The chrysurus is about 2 1/2 inches and eats very well, I got it from The Marine Center in Texas and was very impressed with the fish itself and the way it was shipped. That was my first time ordering from them but Bob talks well of them so I decided to try them and I was very pleased.
<I, too, have heard nothing but excellent feedback about them. They would be my choice for rare fish.>
My plan is to leave it in quarantine, fading out the copper in about a week and keep it in the 30 gallon quarantine setup until the Emperor is done changing over. This will probably be by the end of the summer. The chrysurus will be the only occupant so it should be fine and seems quite at home at the present time. Do you think this will make a difference, since the coloration of the Emperor will be different by then.
<Not really. Marine fish fight based on needing common food. They establish a territory in which they can sustain a food source. Your Emperor will likely claim your entire tank and attempt to drive away any competitors.>
I intend to take on the challenge, and hope for the best with raising this species. Any advice would appreciated..
Thanks Gillian
<You are really going to have to make a decision which you one want more. Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Pomacanthus chrysurus
Hi Bob,
Its been a while since I have needed your advice, I guess that's a good thing. I have a question regarding a new addition to my tank a Pomacanthus chrysurus (from Africa), I got this fish from the Marine Center about 2 mths ago. It was about 2 inches when I received it and has grown about an inch since. While in quarantine, it developed a bad case of Lymphocystis. It's whole body was covered and I was skeptical if it would make it, any way with water changes and vitamin supplements (Selcon and VitaChem), it has recovered quite nicely. My only concern is that disease affected one its eyes, and it appears as though it has Popeye. I am sure its not because I can see signs of the disease still on the eyeball. 
<This too may well resolve>
The eye is swollen, and I am wondering if the fish could be blind in that eye. 
<Possibly... but as stated... may self-cure>
The other signs of the disease have been absent now for the past week and I was wondering if the eye just needs more time since signs of the disease are still present.
<Yes. Agreed>
Do you think the swelling will go down once the disease is gone or do you think the fish could be blind as a result. Is there any way I can help besides continuing to offer foods with vitamins.
<Not really... some folks might suggest adding other adjuncts to boost nutrition (HUFAs for instance) or Epsom Salt treatments... but time going by will likely do>
The fish is still in quarantine and I think I will keep it there for until it gets bigger as the stock in my display tank would hassle it (imperator angel in particular).
Please advise. Thanks Gill
<I'd place in the main system with live rock ASAPractical. Bob Fenner>

Re: Pomacanthus chrysurus
Thanks for reply, I hoped as much. The only thing is my imperator angel now changing over to adult colors and gave the chrysurus a hard time the first time I attempted to transition the fish to the main system.
<Yes... these two may well need separate quarters or a very large hobby-size system (several hundred gallons) to co-exist>
I had read of a similar scenario on WWM and you advised that the fish be put the main system, so I tried this, but felt cruel as the imperator was so hostile to towards the new fish.
<Less cruel than permanently being in quarantine... the improved, more consistent water quality afforded in a larger system with live rock will/would likely spur recovery>
I took the fish out after about 10 minutes. I figured being of like coloration and species was the problem. Also the imperator is about 6 inches and the chrysurus in about 3 and possibly blind, do you think I should try again. 
<Not unless this is a very large system (see above)... or you have another system to place it... similar marked/colored Indo-Pacific Angelfishes generally do NOT mix>
I could tolerate the new fish begin hassled for a few days, but I don't want the imperator to kill it, since all odds are against the chrysurus. There are plenty of live rock and caves, but the imperator showed signs of aggression I have never seen in it before when I placed the chrysurus in the tank. I was thinking of keeping the chrysurus in quarantine until it got some size,
<This will make no difference... unless the system is huge>
but would much prefer to have it in the display tank. The bottom line is I didn't do my research and I am having some compatibility issues here. 
<Yes...>
Any hope for these two living together?
<Not much. Bob Fenner>
Thanks
again

Re: Pomacanthus chrysurus
The system is a 125 gallons, but I am planning on getting something no smaller than 360 gallon when I move in a year. Could this be a temporary fix to the problem, considering everything else. 
<Again... unfortunate... not likely. I might try mixing the two Angels together one more time... following this stated protocol: catch out the larger resident specimen, place/exchange it with the Chrysurus... move, enlarge spaces with the live rock to "open" the structure in the Imperator's absence... wait a week and recombine the two in the morning, with the lights off on the system, around the tank... or when you can be around for a few hours to keep watch...>
My only other option is to
set up my 55gallon and place the fish until I get a bigger tank. My preference is to use the 125 gallon for now. Do you know of instances where these fish have killed each other or is the hostility temporary. Please advise. Thanks
<Many instances of damage and death. The aggression never ends, but can settle into tolerant occasional jousting. Bob Fenner>

Chrysurus angel... in a reef?
hello there crew!
I had a quick question about the Goldtail angel (Pomacanthus Chrysurus).  Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with reef  tank inhabitants?
<Have seen one that was, long term... in a friend's large system whom you've likely heard of. Leng Sy of EcoSystem Aquarium>
I know that some angels can get along in a reef such as majestics and imperators.  I mean I've seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category.  The tank will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy fauna.  It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaay to small for this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g refugium.  All I'm asking is "can it be done" if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual, small initial size, etc.)?
Chris AKA Fishtank
<Can be. Bob Fenner>

Re: Chrysurus angel... in a reef?
hello there crew!
I had a quick question about the Goldtail angel (Pomacanthus Chrysurus). Now I know no angel is "reef safe" but I have to ask...Can a Chrysurus be kept in conjunction with reef tank inhabitants?
I know that some angels can get along in a reef such as majestics and imperators. I mean I've seen it done before and was wondering if you think a Chrysurus could fit into the somewhat reef safe angel category. The tank will have mostly SPS corals with a very healthy fauna. It's a 70g tall tank (I know waaay to small for this fish but will be upgraded to the likes of a 180-300g system by the time it grows out of its juvenile phase) with a 20g sump and 20-50g refugium. All I'm asking is "can it be done" if I take the right precautions (quarantine, healthy eating individual, small initial size, etc.)?
Thanks for the help and quick response :)
Chris AKA Fishtank
hey bob do you think you could give me the specs on Leng's tank?  I'm willing to bet he was using an ecosystem filter system, but were there any other key aspects in that tank?
<Mmm, best to cc Leng here. Have done so. The specimen/s I saw in his tank... it was about five by five by two feet overall... had a BUNCH of soft and stony corals in it. Leng? Bob Fenner>

P. imperator in 8x2x2. Mixing Pomacanthus sp.  4/5/07
Hi Bob / Crew,
<*Best Tom Leykis impression;* Helloooooo Matt!>
Well I am finally setting up my 8x2x2 tank
<Awesome.>
- it will be a reef tank or sorts with LR, shallow 'sugar fine' sand bed, good flow and aggressive skimming (large Deltec skimmer).
<Sounds good so far...>
Corals will be chosen to suit fish, contrary to the usual 'visa versa' practice.
<Nothing wrong with that as long as it planned ahead and thought out, as you are doing.>
The concept being two large "hollow" mounds (islands) standing 12"-15" or so high, with a couple of branching sps corals growing on top, allowing plenty of swimming space in-between, around and under the islands/corals.
<Okay.>
The pivotal species will be Pomacanthus imperator.
<Amazing and long lived when provided the right environment...needed space.>
My hope is to get a 3" juv. (preferably red sea) and grow him on to a decent sized adult (12"+). Rather than the usual practice of trying to squeeze in half a dozen triggers, wrasse, tangs, and groupers, I would much rather just have a couple other medium to large tank mates, along with a few low impact species like gobies, damsels and Hawkfish to "fill in the gaps".
<...And by doing so you (and your pets) will be much happier in the long-term.>
The two tankmates I had in mind were P. navarchus (majestic angel) and Acanthurus leucosternon (powder blue tang).
<*Personally* I would rather leave out the first choice.  I've rarely seen two different species from this genus (Pomacanthus) work out together long, cohabitating without violent aggression in even the largest tanks. As for the surgeon, this species (and Acanthurus in general) are prone to protozoan illness, Cryptocaryon and the like.  Attain a healthy specimen that is readily eating...bright, alert of surroundings and quarantine it for no less than one month.>
The plan would be to introduce the two angels simultaneously after first quarantining in a 48"x12"x12" with a clear divider for 6 weeks, each angel at about 2-3" (at this size the navarchus would probably be adult colours and slightly bigger), and introduce the powder blue 6-8 weeks later (after suitable quarantine). MY hope would be that is this low stocking environment that the emperor and majestic would grow together and live in harmony, the emperor slowly outgrowing the majestic, then the powder blue, such that I would end up with a 12"emperor, 8-10" majestic, and 6-8" powder blue.  Does this sound a feasible plan?
<It is surely planned out and very thoughtful, I have to give you that.  I have seen this attempted in much less suitable environments. You would have an increased chance in succeeding with such a plan...and it would probably work short-term, however I feel in the long-term as their personalities emerged that there would be some issues.>
Am I being over cautious with the stocking plan - would I get away with adding a couple of other small-medium sized fish i.e. maybe a yellow tang or yellow long nose Bfly or a flame angel ..... a couple of fish that sort of size.
<In a tank of this size, there would be more physical room...yes, the territorial/psychological crowding is the issue.  If you are going to go for the two Pomacanthus angels, I would avoid any other angels all together (even the flame....Centropyge/dwarfs). But I much preferred the above options you mentioned instead....smaller Gobioids and such.>
Or is my conservative approach with the 3 aforementioned species much better?
<Conservative, as far as livestock goes is always better in my experience.>
Your thoughts / comments are as always appreciated.
Regards,
<To you as well.>
Matt
<Adam J.>

Re: Mixing Pomacanthus sp.  – 04/16/07
Thanks for your previous reply - I've gone, sulked a little, and given my brain a chance to realize what I already knew :-)
<Sorry, but I'd rather you hear it from me than to learn the hard way through a painful experience with dead fish...that's never fun.>
Just to recap, the tank is 8x2x2 - and I was proposing a navarchus imperator / powder blue as the only "big" or territorial inhabitants.
<I remember....didn't...still don't recommend mixing the angels.>
Having decided against the angel combo, I am leaning toward a more traditional approach rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. So, I am going to go for the single Pomacanthus - still undecided if that should be imperator or navarchus.... but for the purpose of this discussion I'll assume I go with the bigger imperator........tankmates:
P. imperator
Pink tail trigger
Purple Tang
Regal Tang
yellow Longnose butterfly
<Better, as far as the tangs, add the Paracanthurus (Regal Tang) before the Zebrasoma (Purple Tang) or at least simultaneous addition.>
To add a splash of "red" I was considering including a trio of fairy/flasher wrasse - or maybe a half dozen lyre tail anthias.
Does this sound like a more feasible plan for long term success.
<Yes much better than the last, but do be sure to research the needs, go slow and quarantine.>
Cheers,
Matt
<Adam J.>

Puffer ques., incomp. with large angel   12/22/08
HI, I have a 10" Mapp puffer that has been picked on by a juv emp. angel that recently joined him in the tank.
<Happens...>
The angel used to just pick at him once in a while, but it has gotten drastically worse.
<These animals need to be separated. Stat!>
The puffer's belly is now riddled with eraser sized bites that look like they are becoming infected. I moved him to the fug' , and he is still eating, but I am worried. I will make up a quarantine tank tomorrow.
<Is this larger than the refugium? If not I would not move this fish... too likely to be even more stressful, polluted...>
With out looking at the fish, can you give me some insight as to what my next step should be? A dip of some sort?
<Mmm yes... and no dip. Just time going by in better circumstances>
The display tank is too big to treat and filled with live rock. Because he is eating and not showing any signs of distress, I don't want to treat with anything too severe, I just need a plan of attack, as to divert any chances of this becoming worse. Thanks, Marc
<Another happier place. Bob Fenner>