Saddleback Butterflyfish QT medicate or not. <<RMF - any ideas on the 'hairs?>>  7/10/10
Hi WWM crew,
<Hello David>
Well I've been reading WWM a lot
<Can be addictive..>
and finally decided to get fishes for my tank, as I stated in past email I as trying to get a BTA anemone but as the one I bought was not BTA but a dyed LTA.
<Sad>
I think I'll wait more to get a good one or better yet a better LFS. Well the real issue here is that I got 2 new fishes, one Coral Beauty and one Saddleback
Butterflyfish, they just arrived to my dealer and decided to get them home they looked very strong even for the trip they just made. Anyways, they look plump and healthy.
<Yes, they do>
I started the quarantine tank a 10 gallon bare bottom tank
<<Small for Butterflyfishes, particularly larger, more free-roaming species like C. ephippium>>
with a sponge filter that had been left on the sump of my DT, 50 % new water 50% water from my main tank (70 gallons plus 30 in sump, planning to upgrade in six months to at least 200 gal). Two pvc elbows for hiding and that's it.
<A well thought-out set-up, if a little small for the two in question>
I drip for two hours and then made a Freshwater dip for 10 minutes to each fish with pH 8.3 and Methylene blue then they went to QT.
<Good>
Water in QT, ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, nitrate 0. KH is 8 dKH I and calcium is 420, Temperature is 27 °C.
<All very good, especially w/ ammonia which I would expect to be positive with these two in a 10g>
Already in QT I noticed that the Saddleback was not expanding one of the ventral fins and seemed clumped
<Mmm>
then in better light I noticed this whitish clump about 3 mm long in it's fin, Also it has some really tiny hair like things in its mouth almost invisible not many about 5 or so I think, about less than a millimeter, and its mouth presents some slight red shade and it wont close its always with is mouth open.
<Mmm, I see the redness.. it does look a bit swollen. Did the fish exhibit this in QT or did it have it when you bought it? Did the fish come from a tank w/ live rock, other inhabitants or was it in a tank by itself? My thinking is that this is an injury of some kind, perhaps a tussle with the Centropyge. The only thing I can think of re: the 'hairs' are bristles from a worm, these would cause swelling/ redness for sure. Bob might have another idea, will post to his box and we'll see if he does>
<<Looks like damage... physical trauma... Very common with Chaetodontids... occurs often during collection, handling, shipping... and keeping in small volumes>>
I'm attaching the best pictures I could shoot. Also both fish look like they are searching for food but
they just nip at the bare glass. I have all kind of frozen food, Artemia Mysis,
<I would be using this to tempt them>
krill, also supplement like Zoecon, even caviar. I have lots of mosquito larvae available, Nori, ocean nutrition pellets, flakes and Hikari also. I haven't seem them eat a thing. I put a little piece of Nori and today it was all chopped up but I think it was just made a mess and don't know if they eat anything at all. Also I know its not good for QTs but I introduced a small piece of LR with Aiptasia and some algae growth to see if they liked but I haven't seem them pay much attention.
<This was a good move>
Well I don't know If I need to medicate
<I would not>
to eradicate this white clump or should I just leave it to see what happens. I have not been able to ID what is it, I've read lot of marine disease FAQs and it looks like none of them I would think Lympho
<This is the most likely suspect IMO.
looks a like but this one is whitish doesn't seems to be growing.
<This is commonly white in appearance, and often does not get worse/ grow.. just lingers for a while. No treatment except good attention to water quality required>
Also I got Untergasser's Fish diseases and could not ID it.. Ammonia is creeping up
<? This.. needs to be kept zero. Fishes can/ will lose their appetites in it's presence, and it can cause redness in the mouth/ gills area as well>
but I do 50% water changes daily siphoning the floor to keep it low and remove uneaten food.
<This is good practice>
They have been in QT for 3 days now. Away from my preoccupations they look good and act good they aren't shy at all. I sit with the camera in front of the tank don't freak out or anything.
<I would persevere for the moment, and observe. No need to panic just yet, but if they don't feed in the next few days you will have to consider dip/ placing them to the display>
What would be the next step to take, I've got this lifeguard product from Instant Ocean it is supposedly effective against fungus bacteria and parasites, one tablet per 10 gallons per day for 5 days, or should I try Methylene blue or formalin or another thing
<Nothing.. as posted>
I just don't know what I'm going to treat so I haven't treated but 10 gallon tank is too little for these two fishes
<Yes>
and I don't want to have them there more than needed (4 weeks) or else they could develop environmental diseases by just being in an ugly place.
<It is good that you recognise this, but I do think that 4 weeks might be excessive here>
Hope I haven't been too confusing but I've got too much questions and thing on my head now.
Thank you very much for your time again and really this is an excellent website and very very helpful
<No problem David.. I am assuming that you are a non-native English speaker and if so then you have written very well, thank you>
Sincerely,
David Bulnes Abundis
<Simon>
<<I would summarily freshwater dip/bath and move the Saddleback to the main system. The likelihood it will vector something deleterious is small compared with the likelihood of it passing under present circumstances. BobF>>
Re: More re: Saddleback Butterflyfish QT medicate or not. <<RMF - any ideas on the 'hairs?>>  7/10/10
Hi Simon and BobF
<Hello David>
Me again, about the Saddleback Butterfly fish, well this morning I went downstairs to check on the little fishes and they seem normal, the BF still has the white clump and the oral beauty seems in perfect condition.
<Great!>
I added some Mysis about 5 o 10 little shrimps but had no luck. One good thing is that the Aiptasia covered live rock is now CLEAN, no Aiptasia at all visible,
<Ahhh, some success then!>
so one of them I would think the BF is eating it, so at least it wont have problems on my main tank which currently has a boom of this Aiptasia because of added nutrients from the daily feeding of my cup coral (it was almost a white skeleton and now its ALIVE! again stretching out all nights to get its share of Mysis) I'm tuning my DIY skimmer to its max and it removes about half a cup of dark scum daily.
Well now to the point, apparently the white spot is not going to disappear just like that in that QT, it needs better environment just like the DT, that would be a better move as I understood.
<Yes>
My coral beauty he seems really fine and should I move him also?
<I would move just the Butterfly as Bob says for the moment, but be ready to move the Angel in a couple of days if he does not feed. >
or should it stay in QT alone. The coral Beauty doesn't seems to be aggressive to the BF at all, they stay close together both of them like making company to each other, no picking or poking ;).
<These are usually compatible>
The Coral Beauty seems to be the less active of them both. Both of them arrived to my LFS morning and I
got them on midday, I got them like that because I don't like the way they treat all of the stock there, so I thought I would have better chances of getting a stronger fish if I got it quickly and avoid being on those holding tanks where they are overcrowded and prone to lots of diseases as I don't think they clean them at all between shipments.
<Mmm, I prefer to leave in the LFS for a few days at least, to observe, see how they behave & to make sure they feed. IMO you should never buy a fish without seeing it feed in the shop>
They have about one inch of coral rubble and very strong current, they are about 40 or 50 gallons each and they cram everything they can inside, there is no QT also. Its more like a distributor not a LFS so fishes don't spend much time there just about 1 or 3 days max. (I don't like their practices but right now If I get the fishes directly from them as fast as I can I think I will have better luck).
<The chances of introducing parasites here sound like they could be high. I would consider purchasing a larger QT tank for any future livestock purchases, to enable you to have a better chance of quarantining without being forced to move the animals early. Another option is to purchase a much larger one now, and move both fishes to it. Since the Butterfly is feeding from the live rock, you can be pretty sure that this approach will work>
Other LFS buy from them so I think its the best way.
One doubt I got with cyanobacteria, when I started feeding my cup coral I had these incredible explosion of Cyano, I upgraded the pump of my DIY skimmer and now were talking about real scum is being taking out, well
all the Cyano that was once red burgundy now turned more yellow and green and the patches seem to have shrunk, is that a sign that I'm on my way to win the battle?
<Yes>
I also remove them with long tweezers because all the biofilms comes together as chunk and that way I don't syphon out half my sandbed.
<You need to net this out of the water>
I know this leaves lots floating around and I should syphon it but it really takes out a lot of my sandbed.
<It does not matter how you remove it as long as you remove it>
I do this almost daily.
<When this problem surfaces, daily is required>
I reduced the food I give to my cup coral but they always seem to be wanting more and more its hard to say no.
<You need to balance this input with your export>
One last question, what can I use for a lid for this tank, I don't like putting anything between my PC and HO fixture because I'm of the idea that it will reduce light a lot and get dirty and reduce it even more.
<Mmm, read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tksstds.htm & related FAQs for the many different approaches to this>
Also will get my tank hotter by reducing evaporation, and its already in the limits. Any idea to avoid my fishes jumping out of the tank? or at least diminish the probability?
<Perhaps some netting would work here>
Thank you all, again.
<No problem>
sincerely
David Bulnes Abundis
<Simon>