Coral Propagation/Home Business 3/7/08
Hey there crew!
<Hi Ryan>
This is a terrific site! I have not seen so much quality information on reefs anywhere on the web. Thanks you for your hard work.
<You're welcome.>
I have had aquariums my whole life. For several years, while I was in college, I bred African cichlids, angelfish, and discus for extra money. I still have many of the same LFS contacts so I think I will be able to develop a strong coral business too.
My question is in regards to a 20 gallon long propagation tank that I am in the process of setting up. My plan is to start with some extra mushrooms that I have in my display tank. Profit is not an concern,
<Good, since there won't be much.>
I just want to develop a working system and gain an understanding of what I am doing before I increase my operation to a "large" scale home business. I just want your comments on any improvements I can make. My plan is to have a 2-3 inch substrate depth, two power heads with low gph (<150), Prizm skimmer, Penguin 150 filter, 130 watts of compact florescent lighting (dual bulbs 10000k/6700k).
<The lighting should be fine for most softies.>
I have ready Anthony's newest book and much of the information on this site that is relevant to what I am planning.
Any help will be greatly appreciated!!
<The profit margin on a home coral propagation business is usually just enough to offset the expense. Is done more for the love of the hobby and to offset hobby expenses.
I would suggest the use of Rubbermaid Tubs for this purpose. One hanging MH fixture will easily illuminate the entire tub where all types of coral can be grown. Is best to keep coral families in separate tubs to reduce allelopathy. Most folks doing this use plastic eggcrate to place their frags on. Shrooms can be lightly rubberbanded to rubble rock until they attach. Aragonite plugs are now sold and hard coral frags can be super glued to the plug and placed into the eggcrate. Very efficient protein skimming is also recommended. Anthony's book should be of great help in this venture. Do continue reading/learning on this subject, learn as much as you can before starting this venture.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Ryan

Frag tank   2/5/08
Hello Crew, Hope all is well with you. I have recently studied several books such as Anthony Calfo's book on Coral Propagation, and Bob Fenner's Conscientious Aquarist and have been overwhelmed and awestruck with the massive information.
<Is an involved, involving hobby interest eh?>
These books have been extremely worthwhile investments, and I have got an insatiable desire to start a small frag tank in our spare bedroom also known as the fish stuff room.
<Jumping right ahead!>
I have a 75 gallon aquarium and I would like to run my ideas by you for your input. I will build a egg crate rack with one 12 inch shelf at 12 inches below the waters surface and one 6 inch shelf 4-6 inches below the waters surface. Lighting will be natural sunlight through the window for about 5 hours a day and supplemented with T5HO (4x54) for about 5-6 hours a day. The targeted species of propagation would be primarily softies such as Zoas, Mushrooms, Sinularia, Leathers, and Xenias with some interest in less light demanding LPS.
<Mmm, ahhhhh, I am encouraging you to read a bit more re which to cut up first... not to mix... to rinse thoroughly before placing...>
My ideas for filtration are protein skimmers (HOB),
<Mmm, a sump would be better... for quite a few reasons... flexibility...>
a container or even 2, approximately 16 inches x 12 inches x 6 inches filled with sand and placed on the bare bottom of the tank.
<I'd place this material in the sump...>
This would be for the benefit of DSB and also cleaning issues with bare bottom.
<What if pests become an issue? easier to find, isolate them...>
I will place 20- 25 lbs of live rock for biological filtration in the tank.
<This too...>
I want to utilize a Mag 12 pump in the tank with a manifold placed around the rim "Calfo style". I don't want to utilize a sump with overflows on this tank and don't feel confident in glass drilling.
<Not hard to do, have someone do for you... even the manufacturer...>
I will utilize a refugium above the tank
<Oh! Good>
and allow water to gravity feed down to the tank for nutrient importation and exportation. Do you think this will work? If not where should I tweak this plan? Thanks for your time, Wade
<This system can be made to work... but is not categorically what I would devise... Perhaps a bit more reading and reflection. Please start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidreprofaqs.htm
and the linked FAQs files above.
Bob Fenner>

Propagation Setup, Cnid.   2/1/08
I am thinking of setting up a small propagation tank using a 20 gallon long aquarium. My plan is to drill the bottom and have an overflow down into a 20 gallon sump/refugium. I am thinking of propagating mostly soft corals (Nephthea, Capnella), Zoanthids, and mushrooms.
<Mmm, okay... best to do/use this small volume for just one of the three groups at a given time...>
My first question is how much improvement would I get from having an upstream refugium vs. an in the sump refugium?
<Mmm, about the same>
I would have the refugium set up on a deep sand bed plenum and fill it with Chaeto algae. Furthermore, I would not use a filter screen on the return pump so hopefully all the copepods/amphipods will make it into the tank.
<Mmm, the screen won't hinder their passing here... it's to prevent other, larger materials from damaging or clogging the impeller>
This is how my 75 gallon reef is setup and I've had good results for over a year now. I was thinking of using a 600 GPH pump to run the sump and two 300 GPH powerheads with rotator deflectors in the display tank for additional circulation. Is this too much flow and if so what would your recommendations be?
<Posted on WWM... see Circulation... and Systems and Propagation/Reproduction FAQs files for the Cnid. groups listed>
As for lighting, I was thinking of using 2 T5's at 10000K and actinic with a total output of 48 watts. I specifically chose the 20 long for its shallow depth but with a decent size length for holding multiple specimens. Will the T5's be a good amount of light for my intentions?
<Yes>
Lastly, for feeding I was thinking of offering small amounts of Cyclop-eeze, oyster eggs, and liquid coral food every other day with no mechanical filter present. On the alternating day running the system with a mechanical filter to clean out whatever is left in the water. Does this seem like a good feeding regimen or is there a more efficient/better way of doing it? Thanks so much for your help.
<For a home-hobbyist attempt this should work out fine. Bob Fenner>

Frag tank... Mechanicals, reading  – 1/26/08
Hello there
I was interested in setting up a tank to use as a frag tank mostly softies maybe a couple of LPSs and sps corals also . I have a tank spare tank I bought of my boos at the pet store I work at.
<Spell checker...>
The dimensions are as followed it is 60 inches long (5 feet) 18 inches (1.5 feet) wide and 12 inches deep(1 foot) deep .
<A good size, shape>
It was custom made by oceanic . It is drilled in four places all along the back . It also has a glass brace in the middle . I consider my self very lucky that I got that tank and another tank of around 50-60 gallons for 80 bucks . What I was wondering was your thoughts on lighting and filter choice if my budget is around 200 to around 400 dollars. Any other input would be greatly appreciated.
Tom von Bargen
<All posted... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/corlpropfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... and a cursory (re)read of Anthony Calfo's newly re-done "Coral Propagation" book. Bob Fenner>

Was: Cherub Angelfish Question... Now Skimmer op., Frag tank set-up
Good day Bob,
<Eric>
Thank you for the quick response. I really appreciate it.
I have another question. Well, actually, two questions.
One is related to my skimmer. It has been up and running continuously for about 3 weeks, and is still creating about 1-2 cups of skimmate per day, however it's a lighter green to light-medium shade brown color. It's not the "dark coffee" colored, thick skimmate that I have been expecting. I have adjusted the height so that the skimmer cup is about as high as it can go (the O-ring is as low as it can go on said cup) and it's still producing the above colored skimmate.
I don't think I'm too low on the stocking level.. Is this normal? I know that the skimmate production is different for different folks as well... Do you have any suggestions?
<This may be about all that the given make/model skimmer can do with the present conditions in your tank... There are means to change this... by adding ozone for instance... But I would not be concerned>
The second question is in regard to a "Frag Tank". I have been thinking of setting up a 20 Gallon Long tank to have some "easy" polyps and (mainly LPS) corals. I am in the exciting planning stage, and here's what I have so far:
-Power Compact Lighting, somewhere between 80-100 watts, 60 (or so) 10,000K and (20 or so) watts 6,700K (or 20 watts Actinic).
-An over sized filter (rated for 30-50 gallon tank)
-An extra powerhead with rotating deflector. (Flow will be toward the filter. One will be on left side of the tank, the other will be on the right hand side)
-plastic egg crating or similar, set up on different levels ( like a few stairs.. from West to East) so that I can have 2 or 3 different heights for acclimation and differing light requirements.
-a few pounds of live rock set under the egg crating.
- There won't be any fish (...If you think it will be "better" I could add a small goby or similar)
Questions: How does the above sound so far? Should I add a sand bed? Would a 3-5 inch plenum type help here, or should I leave this out.. Maybe have a 1 inch sand bed if I decide to add some inverts? If yes, I will add part live sand and part "non live" sand to the mix.
<Okay, I would and no... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/corlpropfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Have you seen Anthony Calfo's (new 2d. ed.) Coral Propagation book?>
Also, I am a bit concerned with the nitrification process, especially in the beginning, and will be reading more about that in the meantime. I am familiar with setting up a FOWLR or Fish-Only set up in this regard, but not a "coral/polyp only tank, with some inverts"
<Best to fast-start with water, substrate from an established system, use make-up water from there...>
Once again, Thank You for the Help!
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Attaching Coral to Live Rock – 12/9/07
Hello Everyone,
<Hello, Brenda here tonight!>
I'm sorry if this has been covered.
<Not a problem!>
I searched but did not come up with the answer. Any way, I'm waiting for my tank to cycle, so I'm looking for info on coral frags.
<This is an exciting time!>
My rock does not have any flat areas. Will they still attach to an uneven surface?
<Oh yes! It may possibly need some assistance (depending on the coral), super glue gel, fishing line, toothpicks, bridal veil to name a few. Many corals come attached to rock rubble, and just need to be placed in a crevice. What corals are you planning to keep? I have propagated many corals and may be able to give you more in-depth detail knowing the coral. Be careful when purchasing newly propagated coral. These generally need to go through a recovery period before adding the stress of a new/different environment.>
The rock is very porous. It has a lot of craters.
<Sounds like excellent live rock!>
If this has been covered I'm sorry.
<I’m not finding a whole lot of information here myself. You can try reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlplcfaqs.htm and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlpropfaq2.htm You may also want to Google “coral propagation” for more information.>
I know you are very busy. Thanks for the help. Should I try to find rock with smooth surface?
<No, what you have is best. Just be sure that your tank is ready before adding coral and know the care required for each. Since it is still cycling, it will be some time before it is ready. Until then continue doing what you are doing by reading and asking questions. Good luck to you! Brenda>

Re: Attaching Coral to Live Rock, Zoanthid Toxins and Safety – 12/10/07
Brenda,
Thank you for the info!!
<You’re welcome!>
I was thinking of starting with some Zoanthids, and go from there. I figured I would start with these they seem to be hardy enough for my skill level. As you know they will add lots of color to my tank.
<Yes, you have a lot of selection here. I have worked with and propagated Zoanthids many times. Let me give you a quick run down on Zoanthid safety. As with all coral, when handling you should wear gloves. However, with Zoanthids it is a must to use eye protection, a complete face shield is best. Zoanthids are extremely toxic, and can be deadly in extreme cases to humans and their furry friends. I am aware of several cases where this coral has released toxins by squirting someone in the eye or mouth, so you will want to keep your mouth closed if not using a full face shield. Keep pets and children away while you are working with these. Disinfect your work area, and any tools used when you are finished. Some important links to read: http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html http://www.asanltr.com/newsletter/02-2/articles/Neurotoxins.htm
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=158663&perpage=10&pagenumber=1 http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidreprfaqs.htm
If you decide to propagate these, it is best to remove a portion of the rock underneath the coral. This can be done using a chisel or even a razor blade. Then use super glue gel to attach to another rock, or frag plug.>
Thanks again for the info, and keep up the good work, your services are invaluable and always appreciated.
<You are welcome! Thank you! It is always good to hear we are appreciated! Good luck to you! Brenda>

Conservatory Frag Tank...How To Control The Heat? – 08/06/07
Hi There,
<<Hello Karl>>
I wonder if you could help or offer any advice on a system that I am setting up?
<<I’m happy to try>>
I want to setup a 55g frag tank (to grow pulsing Xenia, Metallic Green Xenia (Star Polyps), various other Zoanthids) in my conservatory (not sure if these go under the same name in the US - it is like a glass house with plastic roof built onto your house).
<<Ah yes, I am familiar with these/this term (lived in Ipswich for 3 ½ years). The U.S equivalent is called a three-season room...or as they often call them here in the South East, a “Florida” room (even though it may not actually be located “in” Florida)>>
Anyway, the conservatory does not get full sun, only afternoon sun. I would like to utilize this natural sunlight, as well as supplement this with a 250w 14k metal halide lamp (would you suggest this or a lower Kelvin globe as I am aiming for this to be a grow out tank).
<<This is doable...and if “growth” is what you are after I recommend a Kelvin temperature closer to natural sunlight (5500K – 6500K)>>
My question is this... Even though I get only afternoon sun (and I live in chilly old England)
<<I do recall! [grin]>>
the temperatures still soar once the suns starts coming through.
<<Mmm, yes...I imagine with all those transparent walls/ceiling the solar gain would be quite intense, even at your latitude>>
I am planning for this system to be open top, with 1 or 2 large fans blowing across the water. I also plan to extract heat from the metal halide out of the window with an inline extractor fan. Do you have any ideas on how else I can keep the temperature down during summer (winter is not a problem)? I really cannot afford to air-condition the entire room, or purchase a chiller.
<<Hmm... The extractor fan will also likely pull some ambient room heat and may prove to be enough. You could also install a louvered ventilation fan in one of the windows that operates on a thermostat to pull excess heat from the room...much like those used in greenhouses to control temperature. Visiting a greenhouse may give you other ideas such as installing window or roof vents that can either be opened manually or controlled with a thermostat to open up when the temperature rises to help vent hot air>>
Will evaporative cooling (automatic top-off using an Osmolator and Kalkwasser)
<<I love those Tunze Osmolator top-off units>>
be enough to keep temps within the acceptable range?
<<Only testing will tell...but is worth a try. Evaporative cooling can be quite effective>>
Any advice you could offer me would be much appreciated.
<<I hope I’ve given you a few things to consider/investigate>>
I have had a great deal of success with my nano and now that things are getting a bit crowded, wish to grow these frags out to sell/trade.
<<Quite common>>
Sadly, my conservatory is the only space I have available to setup a frag system... :O( Any advice would be much appreciated!
Best Regards,
Karl
<<Good luck with your venture. EricR>>

Attending a Frag Swap...Who Will/How Do I Store My frags? - 04/18/07
Hey guys and girls,
<<Howdy Greg>>
I plan on attending a frag swap at the end of June.
<<Ah yes...that's the coral conference being held by Foster&Smith isn't it?>>
The frag swap is 10 1/2 hours away.
<<Driving then?>>
We will be going on a Saturday and Sunday and plan on coming back on a Monday (early).  My question is what to do with the corals that we purchase Saturday and Sunday.
<<Mmm, this will depend on how the vendors/traders are "set up."  If they are equipped with "running" systems and are there for the duration of the swap-meet then ideally they would mark and hold your purchases to be bagged the morning of departure (much like the vendors at the MACNA conferences).  If not, then you will need to bring storage/transport containers as well as a means to perform water changes/re-bagging>>
Would it be possible to bring water out of my tank for a 10 or 20  gallon tank with a powerhead and a CF to store the corals until we bag them before we go home.
<<This would work (if the place you will be staying has no objections)...do be sure to "acclimate" the corals to this holding tank>>
Or should I just mix up the water when we get there???
<<I suppose you could do that, but I would prefer water that is "matured" as this will be less aggressive/stressful on the corals.  If hauling that much water is a problem, you could just bring a few gallons of the tank water and mix-up the rest at your destination...then mix this with the matured water you brought with you.  I recommend you do this as soon as you arrive and get the holding tank up and running before venturing out to the frag swap>>
Any other options would be greatly appreciated.
<<Do contact the person/agency sponsoring the swap and get their feedback as well...there may well be some type of consideration already in effect>>
I plan on asking the vendors if they will keep the corals until Sunday but if this is not possible I want to do the best thing for survival!
<<Indeed>>
Thanks,
Greg
<<Enjoy the meet.  EricR>>

Frag tank lighting   10/2/06
Hello WWM crew
  I have a 20 gal SPS frag grow out tank I am setting up plumbed into my main system.  I have a 2X55 watt 6700k fixture I have considered using (the frags will be on a rack 8-10" below the water surface).  Do you think this will work or  should I go to option #2 which would be a 150 watt HQI Iwaki 6500k.  Thank you very much for your opinion and all the information you have on you awesome site.
Scott
<I'd use the fluorescent... and make the grow out tank water depth adjustable... an inch or two above the frags is ideal. Bob Fenner>

Re: Custom Frag Tank lighting -- a follow-up - 1/18/07
Thank you for your quick response.  
<No problems, my friend. I enjoy feeling helpful.>
Okay, I'm going to go back to a standard aquarium as a sump so I can put in the refuge for the corals but I have a follow up in regards to the lighting.  I would  rather have MH than VHO, just my preference.
<Fair enough, we all have our preferences. VHO would not be my choice either, in fact if I were to endorse any specific technology, it would likely be T5-HO, due to their smaller size, lower heat, longer bulb life, and good penetration, but I digress...>
So if I went with MH lighting, being that that my tank is 3 ft wide, would something like a 2x250 HQI with PC actinic 48"x15"x3" centered over the tank give enough lighting to the edges.  Or is their a different set-up you would recommend.
<This sounds good to me, my friend. I think it will serve you well. -JustinN>
Thanks again.

Selling to wholesalers   9/26/06
I would like to propagate a fast growing coral species to sell to wholesalers.  If I were to reliably produce a relatively high volume of a single species each month would there be a market for this product?
<Possibly>
If so, is there a comprehensive list of wholesalers to contact about their interest in buying from a single species supplier.
<Mmm, not as far as I've ever seen... many can be found through searching about in "Buyer's Guides"... produced by industry mag.s... Phone directories, you can peruse at large/r libraries... searching the Net... e.g. organizations members lists like OFI...>
  Also, is there an industry standard as far as contacting wholesalers regarding this situation (i.e., letter, phone call).
<Good question... Best to call them, ask who makes such decisions, what they might be possibly interested in some/several months down the line... what they might be willing to pay (FOB/landed) for such... But, allow me to cut to the proverbial chase here and suggest you sell a mix of such possible cnidarians more locally... likely the fish stores you can drive to will take about all you can realistically produce... The nature of the trade is such that guessing "what will be hot" and the margins being so small to non-existent dealing through wholesalers, that you will first be most likely selling to LFSs, and second to this, only/either to end-users/consumers... Not to both. BobF>
Thank you,
Amy

SPS collection business   8/21/06
Dear Bob and crew,
<Alan>
I'm thinking of starting  an exclusive Acropora collecting business to supply to the trade. I only wish to collect Acroporas from the wild by fragging a few branches from a colony and gluing them unto rocks for sale in order to minimize impact on ecosystem.
<Mmm... can't really be done this way... need to collect colonies, keep them in captive conditions... some time (months) later frag them... Too hard to make the transition otherwise>
I suppose this will generate faster returns rather than having an aquaculture facility which requires more overhead cost and time.
<...>
Do you think this is viable in the long run?
<Nope>
Any words of wisdom? Thanks a lot.
Best regards,
Lee
<Keep studying, dreaming, planning... Bob Fenner>

Brain (coral) frags, xenia repro.  - 04/19/06
Hello,
    I was wondering if it was possible, or how to, frag a brain coral.
<Can be scored, cut with a chisel et al., but best cut with a power tool that is securely mounted... a "wet-saw" for cutting tile, or a band-saw is most often employed here>
Also, once xenia starts growing all over the same rock, is it normal for it to sort of grow taller as it fights for position, the last time it started getting taller was because a bulb had burned out and they needed more light, I think.
<Happens>
I checked and all the bulbs are good and since the last burn out I have even got a new lighting system that adds about 55 watts more, they are reproducing like crazy, and fully opened all day and most of the night, so I don't think they are unhappy, but when I first got them they were shorter.  Is it because there is almost 10x the amount now versus when I bought them?   Thank you for your time.
<Maybe. Please see WWM re Cnidarian culture: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm
Bob Fenner>

Holding system manufacturers?  - 04/11/2006
Hello Bob,
  Miguel from Fraggle Reef here, you guys have helped me out on several occasions, and I was wondering if you had any information on companies in the Los Angeles area or anywhere nearby that manufacture retail/wholesale holding systems?  
<Mmm, yes>
I know of rk2 systems, but Chris is apparently in the Colorado office, and I was looking to get the ball rolling immediately, and
wanted to compare prices and services.  I was planning on making it a centralized system, in a relatively small area, holding system space for corals is 17'x18', so I wanted maximization of that space, and would put it together myself, all I needed was the actual raceways manufactured, along with the rk2 style smaller holding systems for inverts.  Thanks much for your time, it's very much appreciated, thanks!
Sincerely,
Miguel
Fraggle Reef
<Well, the Krechter's are very good at what they do, and friends... but their products are indeed pricey. Another couple of choices worth chatting with till you decide are Alan Lem at Advanced Aqua Tanks and Craig DeWalt at SeaClear/Tradewind/CASCO in Cerritos... A note also re checking around to see if some folks have some gear that they might want to sell used. I would call the large livestock wholesalers and ask their owners re this... Totes, tanks, even mechanicals and controllers can be had for much less... and really... does it matter much if they're scratched up a bit? Not to me. Now, if "price is no object"... Bob Fenner>

Re: Holding system manufacturers?  - 04/11/2006
Hello Bob,
  Very true, I'd rather have a scratched up el cheapo tank than pay a premium for the same tank unscratched, I'll contact some of the wholesalers and see if they have extra gear, thanks much for the tip.
<Certainly welcome. Works to all's advantage for you to have/use...>
In the meantime I'll also contact Alan Lem and Craig DeWalt to get some pricing on the raceways, thanks again for your time
Sincerely,
Miguel
<Real good. Do please send along pix once all is in process. Cheers, Bob Fenner>