Ptereleotris zebra "can't" eat?!  1/30/08
Good morning -
<Howdy!>
I have a pair of Ptereleotris zebra, but I'm worried that one of them will soon be gone for the simple reason that it no longer seems able to eat!
<Mmm, this Microdesmid species lives in larger groups than this... unlike some of its other popular family members that are much more often found in pairs/twos>
Both fish have always eaten just about anything I put in the tank (flakes, frozen foods, Cyclop-Eeze, etc.), but one of them now "misses" almost every time it approaches the food in the water. I'm not sure if it can't open its mouth for some reason or what, but even though it will dart at food, once its nose gets up against the food, it seems to "miss" its target. It will jerk its head from side to side in an apparent attempt to get the food (i.e. it definitely knows the food is there), but it doesn't seem to be able to actually get the food into its mouth for some reason (only the tiniest of pieces - Cyclop-Eeze, for example - seem to sometimes make it into its mouth).
<Mmm, such behavior is often attributed to "blindness", other degenerational circumstances mainly in turn related to nutritional issue/s, internal parasite fauna, trauma (physical injury)... Sometimes environmental circumstance like too-bright lighting...>
The poor fish still seems alert and active, though it is getting incredibly thin (its mate is eating fine and is still plenty plump...).
Are there parasites that prevent certain fish from being able to open their mouths?
<Yes>
Could the fish have been injured (no visible signs are apparent, however)?
<Yes>
I realize that the problem may be hard to diagnose without actually watching it in action, but any thoughts you can share as to what might be wrong (and how I can help it start eating again!) would be most appreciated!
Thanks!
-Nate
<Similarly, a course of action is difficult to proscribe... Improving water quality, providing some live material (likely suitably sized copepods), perhaps switching to Spectrum Thera food... moving the fish (both) to a refugium with such food, reduced lighting... may reverse the trend here. No general or specific course of "medicine" treatment is advised. Bob Fenner>

Scissortails, fairy wrasse, and refugium   8/12/07
Thanks for your response to my last letter
(one-sentence summary: one of the new scissortails we added to our tank after one of our previous pair jumped to its death seems to be terrified of our fairy wrasse and won't come out to swim with the others.)
<<Good>>
> It could well have harassed the Microdesmid/s in this small volume, particularly if it is/was solitary... Fairy/Velvet Wrasses are very social animals...
The fairy wrasse does have a friend its own size in the tank, a yellow mimic tang.
<<Mmmm, not the same... as conspecifics>>
(Your team warned my husband that even this small tang may outgrow our 55-gallon tank and need a larger space eventually, but for now, it's 2.5 inches long and fits through all the live rock crevices. The wrasse is three inches long.)
I don't know if it's common for fish from such different species to bond with each other,
<Actually quite... there is always waxing, waning interrelationship dynamics in captive and wild settings... One only need look critically...>
but the wrasse and tang came from the same store and they swim together all day and sleep in the same rock cave at night.
The wrasse, tang, and original pair of Dartfish all got along great, but we had been smart about adding the Dartfish first. These new Dartfish were added last and it seems to be a huge stress to them. :-( I wish we'd had the foresight to add them all at once, but it's too late for that now. Our water quality is still perfect; is there some other type of fish you'd recommend we get, either to keep the wrasse busier or make the Dartfish feel more comfortable?
<A bigger tank, some females of its species>
The wrasse was supposed to be a 'dither fish' but he seems to have scared the scissortail away rather than encouraging it to swim in the open. Or would it be better to just leave this group of fish alone and hope they sort it out?
<See above>
In the wrasse's defense, I've never seen him actually *chase* any of the Dartfish, he just goes over and swims near their burrow entrance and it freaks them out.
On to my next question, I guess: I read on your microdesmids page that a refugium is a big help in keeping these fish well-fed.
<Ah yes>
Since one of our Dartfish is so skittish, we're thinking a refugium might also help him get food at irregular times when the wrasse isn't in his vicinity, and without being scared into his hole by the sight of us opening the lid to squirt the food in (oddly, he doesn't seem afraid of the tang, only the wrasse and us humans.) However, the article about refugiums on your website does not seem to contain any instructions for how to set one up.
<Mmm, actually... there are many types of such live sumps... and plenty of "hints" re their design, construction, operation...>
That page mentions a book by Bob Fenner called "Natural Marine Aquariums" that has information about setting up a refugium, but I wasn't able to find this book on Amazon. Is this information contained in "Reef Invertebrates: An Essential Guide"?
<Ah, yes... these are the same title>
If so, are there step-by-step instructions in it, the way there are in "Conscientious Marine Aquarist" for setting up the main tank?
<Yes... quite detailed>
I feel like I don't understand some of the real basics about how refugiums work (like how you keep from over-feeding your fish when food populations are reproducing on their own), so if there's another article on your website that explains those refugium basics for newbies, I'd be grateful for the URL.
Thanks!
Laura
<Mmm, all archived or linked through here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
The second tray down. Bob Fenner>

Refugium and water flow questions, Microdesmid fdg.   8/16/07
Thanks once again for your patience with a newbie aquarist. My copy of "Reef Invertebrates" just arrived in the mail yesterday, and I've been poring through the refugium section.
<Am sure you will enjoy, gain by its perusal>
From Bob's response to my last letter, it sounds like the fairy wrasse might not have been as good a choice for our 55-gallon tank as we thought. :-( Fortunately he does seem healthy and happy for the time being, so hopefully he'll be able to hang in there till we can get him some more water volume and a girlfriend.
<Ah, good>
I now think, though, that I may have been incorrect to blame him for the skittishness of one of our scissortail Dartfish (the subject of my previous letter.) I had a chance to observe the tank earlier today for almost an hour while the wrasse was playing on the opposite side from the scissortails' burrow, and the skittish one was exhibiting the exact same behavior -- slipping out of the burrow, swimming for about 10 seconds, and then shooting back in like there's a demon on his heels.
<Microdesmids are just skittish as a group... this species more than most all>
Previously I'd assumed the wrasse was scaring him, but he's doing it even when there's no other living creature in sight. Meanwhile the other two scissortails are spending most of the day swimming freely near the top of the tank. I wonder if we just have a neurotic fish, or if possibly it's ill. (No visible signs of illness that I can see, and he is swimming quickly and does come out to eat every feeding, though he only ends up eating a couple of brine shrimp each time.)
So now for my questions:
1) Short-term feeding-- how can I keep this skittish Dartfish adequately fed?
<Hopefully so>
I've tried squirting food down directly in front of the burrow with a turkey baster, but he won't come out to eat until a good minute after I've squirted the food in and retreated, and by that time, the other two Dartfish have eaten whatever I've put in. Can he survive on only a few brine shrimp a day, or is he slowly starving to death down there?
<Only time, experience can/will tell>
2) Long-term feeding-- I read in the microdesmids article that a refugium is good for keeping these fish well-fed, and I'm hopeful that it may help our reticent scissortail get enough to eat.
<Am sure it will>
After reading the section about refugia in the book, it looks like what is being recommended is a zooplankton refugium -- presumably stocked with something like brine shrimp and then various copepods and things will appear there on their own. But am I understanding this correctly that there will then be a small, steady flow of food critters into the tank all day long?
<Yes... even more so by night>
If so, will I then reduce or stop direct feedings of the tank (I'm currently feeding frozen Mysid shrimp and Spirulina-stuffed brine shrimp)?
<To some extent, yes>
How can I ensure that the tank is not overfed if food animals are continuously being produced? (Sorry if this is a really dumb question but I wasn't able to find the answer in the refugium email archive...)
<You will know>
3) We've been having trouble keeping the flow level in our tank correct. We have a C-360 canister filter on one end, a protein skimmer on the other, and a submersible powerhead in the middle. When we have all three turned on we have what should be the proper amount of flow, but the water is too churned up and our invertebrates appear distressed (tubeworms retract, Discosoma pulls into its crack) and our fish don't seem to play as much. When we turn off the powerhead our livestock seem happier, but the flow is not as vigorous as our LFS says it should be.
<Trust your observations, your livestock more than the LFS or moi>
(We do have several sponges and a pretty encrusting coral that crept out of our live rocks, and our LFS told us they needed strong water flow to survive.) I read in Bob's book that it's better not to have too much laminar flow, which is probably the problem our powerhead is creating since it pumps out a very strong unidirectional current. But how else can I add more flow besides a powerhead? Is this another problem that will be solved by adding the refugium?
<Also likely>
I think that's it for now. Thanks for the invaluable resource.
Laura
<Thank you. Bob Fenner>

Stocking, Firefish Are Shy Eaters - 12/18/2005
Good morning WWM Crew,
<Good evening, Jim!  Sorry for this delay in reply....>
First, I would like to thank you for an incredible site that has helped me through my first year and a half in the saltwater hobby.
<Glad to be of service to you!>
With persistent research I can answer just about any question (and I have) but sometimes you need to just ask a question and get an honest opinion. So here goes:
<Okay.>
I have a 130 gallon FOWLR that has been running a year and a half. Filtration consists of a Nu-Clear canister filter (cleaned weekly) and 130 pounds of live rock. Circulation is provided by a Little Giant pump and three power heads (total turnover approx 12x per hour). I am also running a UV filter. Water parameters are pH - 8.1,
<Better to be a steady 8.2-8.3.>
salinity - 1.025, NH3 - 0, NO2 - 0, NO3 - 10 ppm,
<Lower NO3, if possible; though this isn't "bad" at this point, you're headed for some algae issues, here, I fear.>
Alkalinity - 3.08meq/L, calcium - 440 ppm, temperature is 77 - 78 F. I perform weekly water changes of 15 to 20% and the only additives used are a buffer added to my top off water. I use RO/DI water for top off and to make seawater. I do not have a sump or room for a hang on protein skimmer (my research indicates that the hang on skimmers are a bit small for my system anyway).
<Anything is better than nothing....  You really do/will need a skimmer, in my opinion.  I would either make room, or implement a sump into this system and place an in-sump skimmer there.>
Any suggestions? I had my tank fully stocked (in my opinion) in June but due to a construction project at the house (involving tile enhancer/sealer) I lost 2/3rd of my livestock. I was out of town when they applied the sealant which fumigated the house.
<Ack!  My apologies for your losses.>
I did a couple of large water changes and ran carbon/poly-filter for six weeks and I am now considering a revised stocking list that I wanted to run by you. My current inhabitants are 2 Fire Shrimp (L. debelius), one Skunk Shrimp (L. amboinensis), one Yellow Tail Damsel (C. parasema), 2 False Percula clownfish (A. ocellaris), 2 Yellow Clown Gobies (G. okinawae), and the clean up crew consisting of 75 hermit crabs, two Turbo Snails, and five Astraea Snails. In addition, I have two Purple Firefish (N. decora) in my 30 g. QT (they will be in QT 4 weeks on Saturday so they are just about ready to move to the display).
<Do be very cautious, here; this shy, retiring little fish is VERY often outcompeted for food.>
Here is what I would like to add: One more Skunk Shrimp (L. amboinensis),
<Excellent - I would have recommended another if not on your list.>
one Yellow Longnose Butterfly (Forcipiger Flavissimus), two Long Fin Bannerfish (Heniochus acuminatus), one Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto),
<Extreme caution here regarding the shy feeding habits of the Nemateleotris decora - this guy can and will steal food before the decoras can get it.>
one Flame Angel (Centropyge loricula), one Red Sea Sailfin Tang (Zebrasoma desjardinii), and one Orange Marble Starfish (Fromia monilis). I just wanted your opinion on this plan regarding compatibility, stocking level, etc. My plan is to introduce them in the order given (after 4 weeks of QT, of course).
<To be quite honest, I do not know if the angel will be of any threat to the firefish regarding food - but the others will probably not be much of an issue.  Make sure the firefish are very, very well established prior to any additions, if possible.>
Once again, thank you for all your help and for a great resource.  Sincerely, Jim
<I must complement you, your tank sounds much like what I would do had I the room!  Incidentally, N. decora is one of my all-time favorites.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Starving mandarin at LFS  9/26/05
Hello all, than you in advance for your response (I believe I know what it
will be but I need to hear it).  My LFS helped me set up my tank initially
and I have purchased all of my fish and live rock from them (false percula,
Pseudochromis fridmani, 32lbs of (in my opinion great quality) live rock,
a few hitchhikers including 2 sea squirts, one crab (the jury is still out
on whether he stays or goes), a few sponges, may worms and pods) which are
housed in a 45 gallon with a 4 inch DSB.  The set up is 3 months old;  10%
weekly water changes and a Remora protein skimmer have helped keep water
quality high.  I have generally trusted the guys at the store, though one
seems a bit more informed/conscientious than the other.  I have been
researching my next tank mate and was browsing, possibly ready to buy if I
spotted a blenny or a goby with the right personality, when I saw the
mandarin.  The mandarin has been in the store for at least a month, and is
now very very thin (in a 10 gallon tank, I can see the 'line' running down
its sides).  I almost started crying when I saw it (sorry, but I have always
been very sensitive when it comes to suffering animals; I don't eat meat
because I'm against factory farms).  I can't stop thinking about this poor
fish. My instinct is... I want to bring it home and try to save it.  I have
a CPR Aquafuge that I am planning to stock with Chaetomorpha and build up
into a pod farm (the Dottyback likes to hunt pods, plus I like them for
other reasons).  But I probably couldn't get the pod farm up (stocked and
stabilized) soon enough (though I do have something of a pod population
currently). I do know that 45 gallons is too small for a mandarin, that it
would possibly/probably starve under my care in the long run anyway.  Is
there any way that things could work out if I were very careful to maintain
a pod population?  It's just really difficult for me to leave the fish at
the LFS under these conditions and I can't get it off my mind. Oh, and the
guy at the register was reading "Reef Invertebrates"; I mentioned the
mandarin to him but he said that it was ok... It is not.  I plan to call (or
go) back today when I think that the other guy will be there and see what he
has to say.  <Jen, leave the mandarin where it is at.  With no pod population chances are good the fish will die before food arrives.  Let the owner take the loss, not you.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you.
Jen

Dart Goby
Ptereleotris evides, yes that is my fish.  It still doesn't really eat anything, though it does appear to be very healthy. Very active, not skittish, gets along with and seems to stay near the biaculeatus (they seem to "hang out" with each other). I fed a good amount of the Sweetwater zooplankton into the tank, which the clown eagerly ate, but the dart just sampled one or two pieces and spit it out, or would make as if to get a piece, then ignore it, or completely ignore all pieces altogether.
<Perhaps try some Mysis shrimp, too.>
Could you clarify this statement please?
<Sure>
"<If you do well with it there will not be one for long.>"  Not entirely sure what the "one" is referring to. If I do well with the anemone there will not be what for long? That is how I was reading it. Sorry for my lack of comprehension!
<No problem, BTA's are known for being fairly prolific when healthy. They can be encouraged to divide almost monthly given the proper conditions. I was referring to you ending up with a tank full of BTA's.>
Thank you again for all your help!
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Purple Firefish questions
I bought a purple Firefish on Saturday, a beauty. I FW dipped him and placed him in a 10 gallon Qt. It appears to be very shy, active at times but staying mainly under the PVC pipe. I have yet to see him eat. Have tried anti-bacterial flakes, Mysis squid, pellet food and emerald entree. It appears that the fish just doesn't know I am feeding the tank. The food doesn't appear to be laying on the bottom of the tank. I have a small whisper filter. I'll try brine shrimp tonight, maybe that will at least get him started.
<Yes, continue the variety. When you find something he likes, start mixing other stuff with it. It has only been 3 days and that is not unusual with shy guys like this.>
I was reading up on Firefishes on the site and some FAQ. I see some conflicting statements, some say single and some say in pairs. Was I wrong to get a single fish? Also, I saw not to QT these fish. Should I take him out of Qt or wait a few more days or keep the normal 4 week QT period. I would like to get him eating prior to placing him in display tank.
<I think a single is good, a 75 is on the edge for supporting two unless you get lucky and they get along well from the get go. I would QT all fish for a minimum of 4 disease free weeks.>
75 gallon reef, clownfish, coral beauty, misc shrimp. 50 lbs live rock, 3 inch crushed coral substrate. Neither of my two fish have shown aggression towards each other, at least that I have seen.
<Yes, all good, but in the future, the more aggressive (the angel/clown) should go in last. You may have difficulty feeding the Firefish at first with the others as they are aggressive eaters and may keep the Firefish away from food, but you can deal with that if it becomes a problem later.>
I was thinking of adding one more fish. either a longnose butterfly, the LFS has some lil cuties. It would be my biggest fish and since none seem to be aggressive YET, I was thinking it would be okay. Or I was thinking a pair of Banggai cardinalfish. the Tropicorium in Michigan has some real magnificent specimens.
<I think either would be good for this tank with my preference to the Banggai cardinals.>
Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts and advice.
<No problem, Don>
Mike

Fire Fish Wasting Away
<Hello! Ryan with you>
First of all - I have been researching this problem on the internet for
2 weeks and this is the BEST site I have found - I'm very impressed but
I haven't found what is happening to my fish. <I'll do my best!> Now for my problem -
I have a 30 gallon fish only tank. I have 2 Fire fish (pair) - I have
not seen them eat anything for 3 weeks and are wasting away. It seems
like in the past 2 weeks they are always sleeping or really having
problems swimming around the tank. Now one is swimming sideways (today).
They hide under the rocks almost all of the time & don't seem to be
afraid of the other fish - I have never seen any fighting between any of
my fish. It  My question is - How can I convince these guys to eat
something before they die?? They look like they are going to die at any
moment & seem in a trance. They sometimes pick at the rocks but will not
eat anything. <They are under stress-if they were eating properly, and this developed, it is certainly related to water quality.>
Also, for such a small tank - should I be using a protein skimmer? <yes> I
haven't bought one because of lack of money but have been considering
it.  Maybe it would help my tank be healthier then it is right now. <Certainly would be worth the investment.>
Should I have live rock - would that help lower the nitrate? <Among others, and debatably necessary to keep Firefish.> I'm worried
about adding live rock now that my tank has been set up for 2 years and
my other fish seem healthy. <please see: http://wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm>
I just  want to make sure that whatever has
happened to my fire fish doesn't happen to the rest. I also "lost" 3
green Chromis a few months ago & have given up trying to keep them in my
tank. <Chromis is among the hardiest of marine life.  There is certainly a problem we need to fix here.>
Here are my tank stats: 30 gallon, 10 lbs. coral gravel, outside
filter (Whisper?), heater, air pump with 2 air stones and some rocks
(not live rock).  Fish: 2 fire fish (1in - in tank 1 year), Lyretail
Anthias (2 inches -3 months) , Basslet (1in - 3 months) & a Scooter
Blenny (1 in & 1 1/2 years). All of these fish eat fine and seem
healthy. I tested everything I have tests for: Ammonia, Nitrite,
Nitrate, Phosphorus, Hardness & PH, The Nitrates are slightly high
(Right now I'm changing 20 % of the water daily.
It seems like this past year I have never been able to reduce the Nitrate reading to 0. <You may never, especially without the use of a refugium.>
The PH (8.4) and Hardness test were high too.  <How high was   If you have any advice or
suggestions I would appreciate it. <It's time to address the filtration issue: You're underpowered.  You're going to need live rock, or a filter upgrade to properly maintain a marine tank.  I would advise the rock, as it is aesthetically pleasing and much quieter!  Once you're in balance, you'll only need to change 10% of the tank's volume weekly.  As for Firefish snacks, frozen Mysis shrimp or very small live brine are your best bet.  Good luck!>
-- Thank you!

Firefish Hunger Strike (10/25/04)
Hi, <Steve Allen with you this evening. For future reference, please capitalize the proper noun "I" and the first letter of sentences. We post all queries and replies on our site permanently and want them as readable as possible. Our volunteer crew will have a lot more time to answer queries if they don't have to proofread them. Not only that, some of us older presbyopics have a hard time reading unpunctuated text. Thanks.>
I really hope you can help me out here.  I have this pff for 6 months and it was doing fine, eating fresh/frozen shrimps, pellets and even seaweed. when lights go off, it would retreat into it's comfy zone. However, 4 days ago, it just hid in its little cave and won't come out even during feeding. I can see that it's breathing quite heavily although I do not see any injury on it's body. I put food into it's little cave and it's still not eating. This morning I woke up, it's not in it's cave. I hope I can find it tonight. The only change to my tank was that I upgraded to T5HO lights a week ago. <The brighter light may be bothering it--ought to be temporary.>
Tank mates are 2 maroon clown (doesn't bother it unless the pff wanders near their BTA) <For now, anyway. These are mean fish>, 1 yellow wrasse, 1 baby blue tang (2") and 1 G. okinawae. these may not be the ideal tank mates but they have been living together for the last 6 months without any problem. <Things change.> Everyone gets their share of food. 50gal tank running for 8 months. <Way too small for your Tank long term. You will need at least 125 gallons for it.> I do weekly water changes. Will do another water change tomm. Please help. Any way I can 'lure' it to at least eat something? <Consider trying live brine shrimp just to get it to eat something, though this is not good long term food. You might also try soaking the food in garlic as an appetite stimulant.> Thanks in advance. Ai kun <Hope this helps.>
p/s:  As I  always say, keep up the good work.  I really appreciate the help that you guys are offering and the knowledge that you so willingly share. <A pleasure for me to play a small part.>

Firefish Gone (10/31/04)
Hi Steve <Howdy!>
Thanks for your reminder. I will ensure readability this time. <My tired midnight eyes thank you.> The PFF didn't show up and I couldn't find a trace of it. <Sorry to hear.> My LFS told me that it is possible that it may have died and my two cleaner shrimps could have eaten it. Could this be possible? <They do indeed have a voracious appetite. I'd bet they, aided by bristleworms and other critters you may not be seeing, could easily polish of a Firefish corpse in a couple of days.> I did two 20% water changes over a 4 days period. All water parameters are good and all livestock look happy.  I am planning to upgrade my tank some time next year when I move to my new place. Hope to plan the setup properly this time around and would most likely be needing WetWebMedia help to clear some queries then. <Love to help out. My biggest regret with my system is that I wish I had left it fish-free for at least 6 months to really let all of the dormant life on the live rock come out and thrive. There's so much we never see because the fish get them before they can proliferate. Food for thought.> Thanks for your help. Ai Kun <You're welcome. Enjoy the planning process--it's half the fun. We look forward to hearing from you as you move forward. Steve Allen.>

Firefish
I haven't received a reply to the last two emails I've sent to you guys, but hopefully this one will get a response. My firefish has been in QT for 25 days, 22 of those in hypo. I am currently in the process of raising the salinity to 35ppt. He had ich and an internal bacterial infection, both of which seem to be gone, thanks to the hypo and Maracyn-Two. I stopped the M2 treatment about a week and a half ago and added the carbon back into the filter. He hasn't eaten prepared foods in 22 days. I don't know what he's living off of, but occasionally I see him biting at the sand. He doesn't show any interest in the multiple kinds of food I've presented to him. Flake food, brine shrimp, Formula One pellets, raw shrimp, etc. All with and without garlic (I would try Mysis but I can't find any around here for the life of me). 
For the first couple days I had him, he was eating the flake food just fine. I feel as though I'm running out of options. Right now, I'm just trying to get him into my display as quickly as possible, hoping he might gain an appetite once he's in there (he has never been in my display; he went straight into the QT the moment I got him). He's getting skinnier and skinnier and it's really hard to watch and not know what else to do. I would really appreciate any help on what to do here. He's still swimming around the tank some, and he actually seems more active lately than he has been. Thanks in advance!
Heather
<Heather, I would try some frozen Cyclop-eeze.  There are not too many fish that will refuse this, small fish that is. Also might want to find some live adult brine and try that. <James (Salty Dog)>

Firefish
I have tried freeze dried brine shrimp (the San Francisco Bay brand). Is the frozen adult brine that much different?
<Heather, you might want to try boosting the water quality and see if that helps. I think Chemi-Pure is a good product in that regard. The company does advertise that it increases appetite. I use it all the time along with 10% weekly water changes and my fish literally jump out of the water at feeding time. Not saying that it's all attributed to Chemi-Pure, but I think it does help. Anything alive is going to be more nutritional and the movement does help trigger a feeding response. Keep in mind that sometimes you can't always save a fish...it's just the way it goes. James (Salty Dog)>