Did my Red Fire Shrimp eat my Purple Goby?   2/11/08
Hey crew,
<Stormy>
Hope ya all are staying dry.
<I am, out in Hawai'i>
This is in regards to a missing purple firefish.
I've a 72g bow and had two purple firefish (Nemateleotris decora) gobies. They got along great - stayed together during the day, and hung out together at night under a rock that also housed a red fire shrimp.
Maybe 3 weeks later, one of the gobies was missing - no sign whatsoever.
Other inhabitants include a sunburst anthias, a perc clown, a yellow striped cardinal, 2 Scissortails, 3 orange firefish who hang out on the opposite side of the tank, and a lone peppermint shrimp (I started with two but only see one now.)
It appears that the lone purple firefish now hangs out at night with the 2 Scissortails.
Could the fire shrimp have eaten the purple goby?
<Is the most likely suspect, though this Lysmata species is generally not (relatively) aggressive>
If so, I should pull it because I don't want the lone purple goby to also be dinner?
<More likely "something" was wrong with the other, and perhaps the shrimp helped clean up the body>
And, I suppose at this late date I cannot add another purple firefish after the first has been in the tank for a month? A shame because the two of them together helped make the tank.
<Could easily try adding another individual of this species in this setting>
On a different note, one of my rocks keeps sprouting bubble algae. Do I dare add an emerald crab? Or shall I just "rent" one and place the rock in a QT tank?
<I'd siphon/scrape and remove for now... See WWM re>
thanks so much for your help,
stormy
btw: have you found You Tube videos on life in the aquarium? Just do a search on mantis shrimp, or whatever - homemade videos of life in the aquarium - pretty cool.
<Thank you for this. We're hoping to add such video service soon... on a new BB>
Earlier I lost one of my sunburst anthias to a mantis shrimp. On video, one can see how it was done. In fact, there is a video with a red fire shrimp grabbing at a goby, which prompted my first question.
<Yikes! Thank you. Bob Fenner>

Nemateleotris decora/purple firefish question   2/8/08
Hello Crew!
<RD>
Haven't asked a question here in a really long time.. I have kept a pair of N. decora in my 55 G reef for about 2 years now. I bought them unpaired, out of a bunch of about 7 at the LFS and they paired up on their own. They have very peaceful tankmates - a coral beauty (who is very shy in personality), Banggai cardinal and some fire shrimp, snails and corals (I like zoos and Fungiids so my lighting is medium/low - 4x65 watt PC). I never saw eggs, but they would swim around each other in circles and wiggle/"dance" quite often, especially in the evening. One was always very yellow in its body (like the pic of the fish with the chewed fins in the CA article on firefish), the other was the "typical" opalescent/light lavender body color. About 2 weeks ago, the more lavender one died. Is there any way to know which is left - male or female (I haven't found anything on sexing firefish in my research)?
<I know naught>
And - should I attempt to re-pair him/her?
<Mmm, up to you. Can live singly... but much more interesting in pairs>
My LFS regularly stocks these. In fact, there is a nice school that just came in. They are all smaller than my remaining fish, which is a good 3 - 3.5 inch (these are more like 2 and a bit) and all have the lavender body, not the more yellow. Should I get just one, or 2 and try to build a school.
<This genus, species is not one of the schooling type at size... almost always encountered in twos in the wild>
The group in the LFS has no obvious bullies and is schooling together very nicely - I watched them for over 30 minutes last night, trying to figure out what to do.
Thanks!
<I might try two more... being ready to return one. Bob Fenner>

Microdesmidae stocking ratio -11/27/2007
Hey guys,
<And gals...>
I’ve been doing a fair amount of reading on your website regarding the family Microdesmidae. In some instances, I read that 3 are best, a pair is best, and also that it is best to just keep one as they tend to get aggressive as they get older. ???
<Mmm, the Dartfishes... are, by species, let's say the sand dwellers... found in twos mostly... with some rock-occupying species occurring more frequently in groupings...>
I’ve a 72g bow with a 30g refugium and lots of live rock and many caves. I’ve a sunburst anthias, a midas blenny, an orange-lined cardinal fish (Apogon properuptus) and two Scissortails all at approx 2 inch each or smaller.
I’d like to add some firefish? If I added two Nemateleotris decora (my preference) and two magnifica, would that be too many, or too incompatible given the amount of space and stocking ration to-date?
The only other fish I’ll add later would be a perc clown.
<A pair/two of each will likely be fine here... if there's enough fine sand areas for both to have a territory>
I’m also concerned that I have a fire shrimp (Lysmata debelius), approx 2inches, which mainly hides (lonely?)
<Mmm, no... what they do>
Will this shrimp pose a problem with the firefish / or with two peppermint shrimp I’ve just added?
<Mmm, not likely... unless very hungry, the other/s moulting...>
I really don’t know why I have him, since I never see him anyway! What good is he?
<Conversation piece at least evidently... source of lament?>
Given this peaceful community, should I opt for some type of algae eating fish rather than the N. magnifica?
<?>
Recommendations?
<Keep reading, cogitating furiously... till you darn well know what it is you're about. Heeeee!>
I don’t have any algae to speak of yet, except for macro in the fuge and some red Gracilaria in the main.
Thanks again.
p.s. I had three Scissortails. I would leave the lid open when I fed because I turned off the pump so that the food didn’t go into the overflow. I had the three scissors for two weeks, and no jumping.
Today, I stepped away “for a moment” to later find one on the carpet, and breathing hard. He’s in the tank, but I don’t think he’ll make it. I had someone tell me that I should just leave him there since he’s small for the “clean-up” crew including the Lysmata debelius to eat, but I don’t want to set a trend for the shrimp with small fish.
I do leave the molting from the shrimp in the tank, do you think that’s ok or does it just pollute the water?
<In this size volume... I would not be concerned>
Thank you,
Stormy
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Cardinals, gobies, and Anthias compatibility and stocking ratios  11/16/07
Hi guys,
<Stormy>
Thanks again for being there!
<Glad to be so>
Although I’ve read many articles on your website, most recently (Family Microdesmidae, the Worm- and Dartfishes by Robert Fenner and Anthony Calfo / http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/wormfishesArt/wormfishes.htm
I’m still somewhat unsure as to compatibility and stocking ration for future additions I’d like to make.
<Okay>
Mine is a 72g bow w/approx 75lbs live rock and a 4”sand bed in the main with a 30g refugium and a 4” sand bed. Spaghetti and Gracilaria macro algae in the Fuge, and Gracilaria in the main.
Current livestock includes: A Sunburst, a Midas Blenny, and two cardinals – a flame (Apogon pseudomaculatus) and a yellow striped (Apogon chrysotaenia).
The Sunburst, although added first and alone in the tank for 3 weeks still hides in the background with an occasional peek to the front.
The other three are boldly out in the open.
<Typical for this Anthiine species>
I’d like to add the following (over a period of time sorted by next addition) and would appreciate your feedback as to compatibility and stocking ratios.
A pajama cardinal (Sphaeramia nematoptera)– will one be ok by itself given that I’ve the other two who seem to hang out together?
<Should be fine solo>
And of the following gobies – possibly 3? of each, how many groups can I add?
Nemateleotris decora, Purple Firefish (3.5”) the article recommends established pairs only (will 3 be a problem?)
Nemateleotris magnifica, Firefish, (3.5”)
Ptereleotris heteroptera – black tail-spot dart-goby (3 – 5”)
Ptereleotris evides – scissortail (5”)
<Mmm, in a 72 gallon of this shape I'd stick with a grouping of just one species... the last two are more "outgoing" than Nemateleotris, but not as colorful...>
Thanks so much
Stormy
<Welcome, Bob Fenner>

Are two or three scissortail gobies in a 72g best? And crabs gen. comp.   11/6/07
Hey Good Morning,
<And to you>
How is everyone there at WetWeb - staying dry?
<Thus far... though we could REALLY use the rain here in S. Cal.>
I've a 72g bowfront with just one small sunburst Anthias and a lil green striped goby - although I haven't seen the goby since the second day I put him in the tank - probably too many hiding places.
<Yes>
I'd like to get some scissortail gobies and hopefully will entice the sunburst to come out more often. Should I get a pair, or three? I'd heard that if there was an odd one out, there would be less potential for fighting?
<Three would be better here. Some popular microdesmids occur in "just pairs" by and large in the wild, but Scissortails shoal in small groups>
Next I'll probably add a Midas blenny and very far (a year?) down the road a mandarin. My tank is two months old, but with lots of live rock and sand upgraded from a 26g bowfront that was a year old and it has a growing population of pods.
<Okay>
By the way, what is your take on crabs?
<Mmm, by and large not a fan... Some larger decapods are tasty however... Do you like "Chili Crab"? Mmmm, messy>
I've maybe three or four - couple of red legs and a few others. I hear some say they have no place in a reef tank and I'm wondering if they're decimating my population of pods and Stomatella snails.
<Yes>
If so, I'll move em out and maybe get one much much later? In fact, I'm really wanting to get a Sally Lightfoot - any comments on "her."
<If this is Percnon gibbesi, not as much as a problem... but if/when you read (hint hint) on WWM, you'll see that most all true crabs can become/are too opportunistically omnivorous to be suitable for the majority of set-ups>
Take care, keep up the good work, and safe swimming. I've really got
to get to work now.... sigh
stormy
<Me too... D'oh! Bob Fenner>

Psychotic Purple Firefish?  - 2/21/2006
Hi;
<Hello>
First, I would like to thank you very much for answering questions in such detail, and with a refreshing attitude of humbleness that is often a sign of
true knowledge.  I have already spent considerable time reading and learning from your answers to others.  I am not aware of a comparable site, for any subject.
<Thank you for proffering your input>
I recently bought my 7-year-old son a used 29 gallon tropical salt-water tank, which came with skimmer, filter, two double-tubed fluorescent lights
(one UV, one normal) and heater.
Based on the recommendation of my LFS, I used coral sand, with 6 lbs. of live rock and 10 lbs. of base-rock (I believe this is the correct term for
the non-living rock that is seeded from the live rock).  The aquarium was conditioned for six weeks, its water analyzed a number of times, and then
further tested with a yellow-tailed blue damsel. Everything shipshape.
<Good>
My son then wanted a purple-firefish, and the LFS said that this would be most probably compatible with the damsel.  Upon placement in the tank, the
two sort of circled each other, but no skirmishing occurred.  They seemed to settle to a cautious but peaceful pattern.
A couple of days later, the damsel started to hide behind a prop in the tank, and refused to come out to eat.  Two more days later, it died.  Had to
work hard to console my son.
I did some research and decided that the damsel might have been caught chemically (despite lack of obvious discoloration or deteriorating body
parts).  So, we found a LFS which guaranteed ³no chemicals² and got a new damsel.
<Impossible to say>
This time, the firefish started sporadically nipping at the damsel.  After watching in terror for an hour, we took it back to the LFS.
We then got a yellow watchman goby.  After about half a day, the goby took over the firefish¹s hiding hole without apparent fighting.  And now they
seem to live in the same hole (that is where they emerge from when I turn the lights on).
At the same time, the firefish still seems to be the bolder, more aggressive of the two.  During feeding, he bolts all over the tank while the goby hangs
around its hidey-hole and makes quick darts at food that floats by. With this background, finally to the questions:
Question 1:  Is this normal behavior from fish (especially the firefish) that seem to be universally placed in the ³peaceful² category?
<Is not atypical... such behavioral problems are accentuated in small/er volumes>
Question 2:  The LFS I got the goby from highly recommended garlic (Garlic Guard) to enhance the color of the fish ‹is this accurate?
<... am not such a fan of these Allium products>
Question 3:  In a book by Dick Mills, the purple firefish is listed as ³single species per tank².  The two LFS¹s I dealt with have different
interpretations of this: one says you can only put one firefish per tank, the other says it means you can only have firefish in a given tank.
<Mostly the previous/former statement is so... More than one firefish (Microdesmid) of the same species can be placed in a large-enough system (sixty or more gallons let's say), and more than one species can be placed together in an even larger-enough system... a 150 plus gallons let's agree on>
But the latter claims that this is inaccurate, displaying his tanks which have firefish together with other fish (hence, our decision to place the damsel
and the goby with the firefish).
<... store settings are a bit different... temporary>
I also noticed that your site says that purple firefish like being in pairs (quote from Fenner/Calfo article: ³This species demonstrates variable tolerance of conspecifics. It may be best to
buy and keep them in established pairs only²).
<This is so... almost always encountered in such pairs or trios in the wild>
  But I also came across the following answers from your site when I did a search:
Firefish help
4) Is it okay to keep a firefish on its own? I read that they need to be kept in at least pairs.
<They feel more comfortable in groups of three or more.>
Just Firefish Remaining and Them So-Called Nasty Worms... 12/05/05
<Regardless of that fact, firefish are not 'grouping' or 'schooling' fish. They do tend to group up as juveniles, however once they reach maturity (and
even sometimes before so) they are highly aggressive and territorial fish towards other firefish within the group. It is best to always purchase
firefish singly and never as a pair or group..>
Who, if anybody, is right?
<I agree with pairs to trios... as I've seen them in the wild and most often successfully kept in captivity. Unfortunately, your system is too small for more than one>
Question 4: Wanting to cover all colors of the spectrum, my son now has his sight set on a flame angelfish (temperament friendly, but can be territorial
according to the Mills book).
<... not a good choice here or period. Unfortunately, no longer a regularly hardy import>
  Yet, I have an uncomfortable knot in my stomach...  Any opinions regarding compatibility with what we have?
Thanks very much for taking the time.
Regards
<Do read on WWM re "Nano", small marine system stocking. There are hardier species, groups for such a small system as your sons. Bob Fenner>

Just Firefish Remaining and Them So-Called Nasty Worms... 12/05/05
Hi there,
<Howdy, Ali here...>
We recently purchased two firefish gobies.
<Bad move, that unfortunately many, many good willed hobbyist fall victim too.>
Unfortunately we put them in a tank with a royal Dottyback who picked on one of them so badly that he didn't make it (we removed the Dottyback to our nano tank-by himself). Another lesson learned.
<Firefish are very prone to being picked on by more aggressive fish, and in all honesty, the Dottybacks can be true terrors, especially for similarly shaped fish such as firefish. Regardless of that fact, firefish are not 'grouping' or 'schooling' fish. They do tend to group up as juveniles, however once they reach maturity (and even sometimes before so) they are highly aggressive and territorial fish towards other firefish within the group. It is best to always purchase firefish singly and never as a pair or group. Many vendors are now marketing 'mated pairs' of firefish, however even these fish will turn on each other in relatively short time.>
So we have one remaining firefish, and my husband read somewhere that inverts will prey on them. Is this true? We have a couple of emerald crabs and many hermit crabs. We have also spotted a couple of bristleworms which I'm worried will harm it (is a six line wrasse a good solution for this?). Our tank is 26 gallons.
What do you think?
<Emerald crabs generally become overly aggressive towards any small fish and are not recommended for the docile reef aquarium. Bristleworms and small hermits shouldn't pose any real problems. I wouldn't be too overly concerned with the bristleworms due to the fact that most of the bristleworms found in the hobby today are harmless detritivores. Many years back when wild Atlantic live rock was available to hobbyist, the large and nasty 'fireworms' would appear. However, now a days most live rock is either Pacific or aquacultured Atlantic and the 'bad' bristle worms aren't commonly associated with them.>
Thanks in advance, Jen
<No problem Jen and good luck! - Ali>

Firefish in a shoal?
Can Nemateleotris sp. be kept in a shoal if their tank is big enough and if there are enough "bolt holes"? What size tank would you suspect this to be? If it could be done a species tank would be absolutely stunning. If you have any ideas about how this could come to fruition please share them.
Thank You!
<Not in a shoal per se... but microdesmids may be kept in "groups" of a few individuals in "large enough systems"... most are found in pairs or group associations in the wild (i.e. not singly), and I would allow a good four square feet of bottom per individual. Bob Fenner, who refers you to the family coverage and other FAQs about worm gobies on the www.wetwebmedia.com site>

Firefish in Pairs? (and sick Red Sea Sailfin Tang)
Mr. Fenner,
I hope you had a great time in HI. 
<Still there, but just barely>
Now that you have returned, Its time
to start shooting questions your way again. I purchased 2 red Firefish
and began quarantining on Sat.-One of them was not as animated and
active as his buddy. He stayed on the bottom of the tank 95% of the
time & actually waited for the food to come to him to eat. Well, he was
dead Monday when I got home. My question is: should I get the
surviving ff a new buddy & extend the quarantine time for the extra days?
<Wait a couple of weeks>
Or should I keep the 1 fish alone & add another Firefish later? I know
that they like to be in groups. I'm also considering a pair of small clarkii
clowns as my next addition to the main tank. Should they be treated w/
therapeutic amts. of copper (.2ppm) while in the quarantine tank?
<No to the copper... simple dipping and placing with tank-bred specimens>
Your book says that they are susceptible to diseases.
<Mainly wild-caught ones>
Thanx again for your advice.
Craig
ps. my "SICK REDSEA SAILFIN" is doing great in the main tank. I
soaked his food w/Zoecon & Zoë while you were in HI & the signs of
lateral line has diminished quite a bit.
<Excellent. Congratulations on your success. Bob Fenner>

Firefish
Hi WWM Crew
<cheers>
I've been reading up on Firefish a bit, and from your site I've found that they don't do well unless they are in pairs. 
<true for most... but they need to select their own pairs... as in, having been caught as a pair or forming a pair in captivity upon re-establishment>
I was told by a fellow reefer that unless you get two of opposite sex, once mature they will kill each other. Is this true?
<not so absolute... many aquarists enjoy various numbered populations... the key is larger aquaria with peaceful tankmates. If you have a smaller tank (under 100 gallons) do be sure to see that the pair behave as if pair bonded in your merchants tank and do so for more than a week after import. Best regards, Anthony>
Thanks, Barry

Ptereleotris zebra
Hi Bob,
I was wondering what you thought of Ptereleotris zebras?
Are they known to harm clams or corals?
<Neither. And I do like this microdesmid. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dartfish.htm
and the FAQs file beyond. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the advice,
Jackson

Curious about the Curious Worm Goby: Gunnelichthys curiosus 11/26/03
Hey guys (and girls?) got a few questions I couldn't find answers to. First off thanks for all your help and providing hobbyists with such an informative and easy to use website.  
<your appreciation is... er... appreciated <G>>
I am looking to add 1 or 2 more corals to my 45gal tall tank and I had a  few in mind (I already have a silver-branched pumping xenia, devils hand, and a small zoanthid mat-all aqua-cultured) and I was looking to add either pink cauliflower coral (Pocillopora damicornis)  or a few species of Montipora digitata.  Which would be a more natural, safer combination in the long run?
<cannot speak to natural here regarding mix (regarding niches for all of the above... varied)... but the Montipora digitata would be a very hardy and safe bet (weakly aggressive). If you prefer Pocillopora... go for the brown one instead as it is much less demanding. I doubt you have the lights to keep a pink one pink. No worries though>
Could I have them all?  
<do resist mixing many species in such a small tank without leaving room for growth... and distance between to temper chemical aggression>
And do have any information on the curious worm goby?
<a cute little fish, but not much to chat about. They are very poorly suited for community aquarium life. They are very easily intimidated into not eating/thriving. For perspective, one might fairly say they are more difficult to keep than mandarinfishes, seahorses or their Firefish (Microdesmid) kin. The Curious Worm goby needs a very peaceful tank with deep soft sand for burrowing: Gunnelichthys curiosus>
I cant seem to find any info at all.  
<Always include fishbase.org in your searches my friend... a link for this fish follows. Please be sure to follow all of their links on the page... info regarding gut analysis telling of natural diet reproduction, etc.
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=12677&genusname=Gunnellichthys&speciesname=curiosus>
A friend of mine bought one on an impulse buy (I know, I promptly slapped him) and now it has be hiding out of sight for about 2 days, with no signs of burrowing into the substrate.  Any info will be much appreciated. Thanks again. -Nick
IMO... if this fish shares the tank with a single wrasse, damsel, clown or tang... it will die even without aggression from its mates. They are just that shy. Please suggest that your friend get that marvelous little fish into a quiet refugium or another tank altogether with ultra slow and ultra peaceful fishes. They can be kept well under those conditions. Feed zooplankton substitutes. Best of luck, Anthony>

Why Won't They Show Me? LFS Refuses to Show That Fish are Feeding
>Hi All,
>>Hello, David, Marina tonight.
>I went to a LFS today to purchase my second (and third) fish for my aquarium. I had visited the store earlier in the week and they had a nice collection of firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica), some smaller ones and some larger ones. I didn't buy then because it would be 5+ hours before I got home and it gave me time to read up, learn, and ensure I could provide a good environment for them, as well as test my QT tank.
>>I like your thinking.
>Today I went down to purchase the fish, they looked healthy, no labored breathing, no spots, the dorsal fins were in good shape, and their eyes were clear (very reflective too, like little mirrors). Last thing on the checklist was to see the fish eat. However, the shop person (in charge) stated that he had already fed the fish that day and refused to feed them again. 
>>What? Seriously?
>I pressed him on it, but he wouldn't agree to feed them. I asked when he fed them (with the intent of coming back the next day to see them eat), but, apparently, he feeds them in the morning before the store opens for business. 
>>Well, that's not how things were done in any shop I worked, but ok.. problem IS, how can you show a customer who's ready to walk out with those fish that they're eating alright? Doesn't he want to make the sale, or is he more interested in spending money on feed?
>He assured me the fish were fine and would have died by now had they not been eating. 
>>Bull Pucky!
>(Mind you, the smallest Dartfish from 3 days previous were no longer present in the tank).  I've never worked in a LFS, I don't know the nuances of the trade, but what harm would there be in feeding the fish a second time?
>>NONE. However, what harm is there in being obstinate with a good and conscientious customer?
>From what I've learned, watching a fish get fed and seeing him eat is a good indicator on the vigor of the fish.
>>Indeed! And it's been recommended to all since long before I ever got into this trade/hobby. Not exactly good customer service, and were it me, I'd try someplace else (if possible).
>The only thing that makes sense is that they weren't eating and trying to feed them would confirm this. 
>>Well, I don't know if we could say that (of course, I wasn't there, so I couldn't "read" this person as you could). There are some INCREDIBLY peculiar people who work this trade, my friend. And plenty are plenty obnoxious, too! <giggle>
>If he refuses to feed them, then there is still a chance of making a sale, assuming that I trust a salesman at his word. 
>>Give me a guarantee on the fish, and maybe we can talk.
>Because of this, I did not purchase the fish(es), nor did I purchase the net, PO4 test kit, fish food, and small siphon I would have gotten with the fish. 
>>Good for you! Dollars talk, and they should know this.
>I also doubt that I will ever return to this store.
>>I am in complete agreement, though I'd like to speak with a manager/owner.
>Am I missing something here? 
>>Nope.
>Or was am I just misinformed? David
>>By this person? I cannot say. Regarding making sure a fish is at least feeding before you buy? Not at all! You are a smart consumer, good on you, mate. Marina