Overflow Noise/Glass Scratches - 08/15/06
Hi,
<<Hello!>>
I have a 54G RR Corner tank with a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.
<<Sadly undersized throughputs...even on this volume of water>>
I bought the whole reef set up used, but I can't imagine how the previous owner tolerated the noise!
<<Mmm, indeed...you can't really put much water through a 1" drain before it becomes problematic>>
I installed a 1.25" Durso standpipe (1" did not work, now I follow directions, doh!).  I have a 1/8" drilled hole in the top of the T of the Durso.  It was fascinating to watch the relationship between the air hole size, the drain line position relative to the sump water level, and the gurgling and flushing effect.
<<Ah yes, you are finding out just how "fiddly" it can be.  I would like to suggest you try enlarging the hole just enough to push some airline tubing through and down in to the standpipe.  This will help with aspirating/releasing air from the drain line and often eases the gurgling sounds.  It will take some experimentation to determine the best length/diameter tubing to insert>>
As I slowly increased the air hole from a pinhole up to 1/8", I observed the step by step decrease in flushing effect amplitude.  
<<Yes...allowing that air I mentioned to escape more readily>>
It started at about a 3-inch oscillation, at 1/8, it was gone completely.  Adjusting the drain pipe position also impacted the flushing effect and required small changes in the air hole.  
<<Pretty much all comes down to eliminating the obstructions (air bubbles) to the water flow>>   
OK, on to my questions:  I have extensive bubbling/gurgling noise in the sump from the drain.
<<From air that is "carried" down the line by the water>>
I have read on WWM two things to try: A "T" or "Y" fitting on the drain line, and aspirating the drain line from the top with air line tubing.
<<Yes indeedy...though I prefer a 45- or 90-degree ell fitting on the end of the drain line>>
I am confused about the specifics of both of these.  For the T or Y fitting, how is it positioned?
<<Is of little consequence...just position to direct flow in the direction you desire>>
I am guessing that it goes at the bottom of the drain line, with one leg submerged and one leg above the sump water level?
<<Mmm, okay...I think I'm with you now.  The purpose of the fitting on the end of the drain line is to "slow" the rush of water a bit.  So...experiment with the position to determine which gives you best results.  Either way you position it, I find that having the end of the drain line completely submerged usually works best.  And do be aware, it is usually not practical to expect a 1" drain to flow more than about 300/350 gph without much hassle and noise, as you seem to be experiencing>>
For the aspiration tubing, is the tube supposed to have its own hole separate from the existing air line in the Durso T cap?
<<Refer to my earlier comments re>>
Or does it simply go down the same hole?
<<Yup!>>
It also seems to me that the bubble/gurgle would be reduced if I had the water break on some live rock rubble or other irregular surface.
<<Can give it a try>>
I think I have seen reference to using filter pad material.
<<A detritus trap>>  
Next question: Even though I only have about a 2-inch drop from the overflow wall to the top of the water behind it, it still makes an annoying, trickle noise that induces the need to visit the bathroom at night (tank is in the bedroom).
<<Hee!>>
I am thinking of installing some kind of stepladder down to the surface.  Or perhaps a piece of filter pad would also suffice.  How have you seen this done?
<<Raise the height of the standpipe to raise the surface of the water in the overflow...it only needs to "fall" a fraction of an inch or so>>   
Last, the tank is used, and has a good number of extremely fine scratches that are visible depending on angle and lighting.  I have read that you generally shy away from glass polishing/buffing, but that usually seemed to be because the emailer was asking about significant/deep scratches.  What do you think about using a commercial buffer on an orbital drill pad, and follow with a thorough cleaning?
<<I think you'll do one of two things...nothing at all...or make it worse.  Scratches in glass "can" be repaired/removed, but unless you really know what you're doing/have done this before, I recommend you refer to a professional for advice/consultation.  You may find it is easier/cheaper to replace the tank...or learn to ignore/accept the scratches>>
Jack
<<Regards, EricR>>

Durso Standpipe in an external (hang on) overflow box   1/31/06
Hi,
<Howdy>
I have a 1 1/4 DIY Durso standpipe in an hang on overflow box.  I purchased the overflow box from my LFS.  The box did not lose siphon in a simulated power
outage before I  installed the Durso, but now it does.
<Yikes, or potential yikes>
  The water is siphoned from the inside chamber too fast and siphon breaks.  
<Yep>
I have tried to extend the U tube way below the intake from the Durso, but to no avail. I can't even get the U tube to hold siphon with the power off.  It
seems there isn't proper equilibrium between the inside and outside boxes.
Any advice is appreciated,
Thanks!
<... Well, there are plumbing arrangements that can be fashioned as a work-around repair here, but they require a bunch of space... more than you likely have. There are other solutions... that call for something other than the Durso you have situated here... and these are posted... you guessed (!) on WWM. Bob Fenner>
- Setting Up a Durso Standpipe -
Hello, I went yesterday and bought all the parts for the Durso standpipes. I have a 1" bulkhead and got all the parts according to the instructions. Problem, I just assumed these items would fit into my overflow, they didn't. I think I might be able to get the 1" PVC, street elbow, tee to fit inside, but the 1-1/4" will not fit for sure. 
<Ok.> 
I read on the website that using 1" PVC is not effective, my tank is roughly 60 gallons. 
<One inch should work... given the fact that you probably won't have nutty recirculation on a tank of this size... would certainly experiment - glue the T-fitting and street elbow together and just press fit on top of the stand pipe... see how that works for you.> 
Any suggestions on reducing the noise? 
<Give this a try first and see how things go... if your tank is still noisy, do read through the plumbing FAQs... I've posted a couple of different solutions there.>
Thanks,
Rajiv "Mickey" R.
<Cheers, J -

Drain Pipe Diameter 11/3/05
I just started reading your site and have learned quite a bit in a short period of time. You mentioned going to Reef Central for calculation of drain size. For 1200 GPH they recommend 1.43 inch minimum drain pipe diameter and 18 inches of linear overflow size.
<I'd recommend at least two 1.5" ID diameter lines for 1200 actual gph flow>
In the various responses to articles you seemed to recommend for a 120 gal tank and the above flow rate 2 overflows with 1" to 1.5" of drain diameter. I know that more is better but could I get by with a 6" x 8" center overflow box and one 1.5" drain or do I need to go to a 2" drain.
<The two inch>
I don't want to put more than one drain hole in the overflow because I want to use a Durso or Stockman standpipe and having 2 in one overflow makes it more difficult to debug problems w/ the standpipe. Also, both Durso and Stockman only offer the standpipe for a 1.5" bulkhead.
<You can make these...>
2" may be too large for a standpipe.
<... uh, no>
Having one center overflow will make it easier to design and build a closed loop manifold so I don't have to go around to corner overflows.
<Understood>
Thanks for your time
<Thank you for your participation. Bob Fenner>

Durso Standpipes 7/15/05
Hello Crew!
<Tim>
I finally have my first reef aquarium plumbed and filled with freshwater for
testing. I have a 135G from glasscages.com with two overflow boxes, two 1
1/2" standpipes flowing into a 55g all-glass converted to a sump/fuge, and a
Dolphin AquaSea 2100 pump.
I have Durso's in place which greatly reduced the gurgling up on top, and
have just hacked apart my drain lines to put in a TEE style air vent as I
have read about on your site. The vent did not seem to effect the rumbling
rolling boil of bubbles in my sump hardly at all.
<Mmm, you may have to adjust the aspiration... by lowering the small diameter tubing fed down the holes...>
I was playing around and found that if i removed the Durso's from the
standpipes, I could slide scrap pieces of acrylic over the tops of the
standpipes and slide them side to side to "tune" them to the correct flow.
Now, there is no way in hell I would leave the room with the tank running
like that for fear of overflow, but AHHHHHH HHH what beautiful silence.
Is the Durso TRULY the BEST way to quiet the gravity drain system down?
<Mmm, no... but this discussion is very hard to have on the Net>
As an engineer it is driving my nuts that neither I nor anyone else seems to
have been able to solve the problem.
Thanks for listening... Hopefully you can point me to a miracle!
-Tim
(A new aquarist drawn into the reef hobby by the information on your site)
<Yikes... am luckily not a westerner by history, training... hence don't feel guilt re... Keep looking about... there are some works in print (by aquarists who are/were engineers!) that describe "other technology". Bob Fenner>

Re: Durso Standpipe of ayer, now
I read the below yesterday on the FAQs.  As I'm planning a 90 gallon
with one inch diameter overflow holes, let me make sure I understood.
What I think I hear being said is that the Durso standpipe should be 2
inches in diameter with respect to a one inch diameter drain hole as
this will make it run quietly.  Is that it?  Thanks.  
<Yes, this is one approach... to be clear/er... if these lines are over noisy, oscillating in their flow, they are likely under-sized altogether... that is, the through put size, number may need to be larger... as well as the diameter of exhaust lines... to aspirate (adequately) the given flow. Bob Fenner>
"Durso overflow
Hi,
I'm new to the SW aquarium community, I found this
site is extremely help.
<Change in tense>
Yesterday I tried to DIY 1'
Durso pipe to reduce the my 90G
<... better to use 1 1/2 or even 2" here>
Saltwater tank
overflow noise. The Durso pipe works better than the
old one. however, I can't reach the balance water
level in the overflow chamber. It keeps up and down.
<Ahh, larger pipe my friend>
I tried to drill several 1/16" small holes on the vent
cap, the water level keeps up, but never keep at the
same level. Did I miss something here? Thanks, Jerry
<Just the diameter of your conduit. Bob Fenner>"

Re: Durso overflow today
Thank you very much for quick response. I followed
"<Ahh, larger pipe my friend>", did a 1 1/4' Pipe, and
drilled a 1/8" vent hole. All of sudden, the noise is
gone. The water level in the overflow chamber stays
stable, no "flush effect".
<Heee!>
What a tip. BTW, I tried Pipe size at 3/4', 1', none
of them worked.
Jerry
<Easy, eh? Bob Fenner>

Re: Durso Standpipe tomorrow
Ahh.  Then I guess if changing the drain hole(s) size isn't an option,
and beyond the standpipe size, then one should primarily just be
thoughtful in selecting how much water the return pump will move.
<Mmm the enlarged size outside the tank can be of help... in aspirating lines... Please see today's FAQs re...>
  That
is, simply scale down your pump, provided that doesn't severely limit
the water being turned over relative to the tank size.  Jon
<Will reproduce the bit am referring to: Re: Durso overflow
Thank you very much for quick response. I followed
"<Ahh, larger pipe my friend>", did a 1 1/4' Pipe, and
drilled a 1/8" vent hole. All of sudden, the noise is
gone. The water level in the overflow chamber stays
stable, no "flush effect".
<Heee!>
What a tip. BTW, I tried Pipe size at 3/4', 1', none
of them worked.
Jerry
<Easy, eh? Bob Fenner>
<<Slower flow, circulation through plumbing is one approach, enlarging lines outside another. BobF>>

Durso overflow
Hi,
I'm new to the SW aquarium community, I found this
site is extremely help.
<Change in tense>
Yesterday I tried to DIY 1'
Durso pipe to reduce the my 90G
<... better to use 1 1/2 or even 2" here>
Saltwater tank
overflow noise. The Durso pipe works better than the
old one. however, I can't reach the balance water
level in the overflow chamber. It keeps up and down.
<Ahh, larger pipe my friend>
I tried to drill several 1/16" small holes on the vent
cap, the water level keeps up, but never keep at the
same level. Did I miss something here? Thanks, Jerry
<Just the diameter of your conduit. Bob Fenner

- Need Some Opinions -
Hello Bob. 
<Hi, JasonC here in his stead.> 
I'm in the process of setting up my acrylic 48"x13"20" reef tank that's been down for a few years due to moving and busy schedule. Am redoing the stand and hood too. Our living room looks like a workshop :) Would like someone to hold my hand as I venture forth with some plumbing advice/preferences. Technology has advanced a bit while my tank sat. The aquarium has one 5"x5"x19" corner overflow with a 1" bulkhead in the bottom, returning to the almost finished sump/refugium I am now making.
My intention is to:
1) Drill another overflow in the opposite corner matching the existing one making two 1" bulkheads (large enough or drill them out to 1 1/2"?) using Durso stand pipe technology. 
<Two one inch drains on this tank will be fine.> 
I noticed on the Durso web sight that the stand pipe seems to only come in 1". Is there a reason? 
<Yes... is the most common hole size drilled in glass tanks for the drain. Can easily build a 1.5" Durso-style stand pipe... have a self-made one in my tank.> 
Will have 3/4" to 1" (preference?) return lines come up through same 5x5 boxes. 
<One inch would be best... will give you better opportunities to upgrade the pumps, plumbing.> 
Perhaps employ a squid valve to these return lines and a sea swirl (if needed) in the middle of tank on a separate pump. 
<Sure.> 
Am worried about water velocity hurting critters using a squid that will isolate return pump to only one line at a time. Valid concern? 
<Nah... these have proven to be very good as water flow devices and in fact the switching back and forth is much better than a single point source that doesn't move.> 
Was thinking of a pump that does around 1000gph. Good #? Pump recommendations? 
<I'm partial to the Iwaki pumps, but there are many others that will work just fine. If you go for the bottom of the price scale, do yourself a favor and buy two, for redundancy's sake.>
2) Make a new, longer, center back overflow wall, say 16"x4", for improved surface skimming and looks. If I go with this option, I will either drill two bulkheads in the bottom and utilize the Durso stand pipe arrangement, (how big) or come in from the back of the tank up by the water line with two 2" bulkheads. 
<If on the back, two 1.5" bulkheads would be fine - if in the corners, then 1" would be fine as well.> 
The return lines have the same options, up through the bottom or in from the back. 
<This is a call for you to make - it's your aesthetic that you need to please. No functional difference between the two.> 
My worry with having bulkheads up high without stand pipes is noise. 2"ers should be plenty for 1000gph though, true? 
<Two one-inchers would be fine for 1000 GPH. You are likely correct that any size vertical bulkhead used as a drain will be a little noisy.>
Just bouncing these ideas around in my head, trying to think of all the + and - . 
<No worries.> 
Would appreciate any feedback you have on what might work best. 
<Think you're on the right track.>
PS: Am thinking of getting a new skimmer. The Aqua C caught my eye. Is it worth the $? 
<Is what I own... think they are well worth the money.> 
Also thoughts on a calcium reactor? Never had one. 
<If you're planning on clams and/or stony corals, then this is a must. Otherwise, a good accessory to have but not a "must have" - am partial to the Knop reactors.>
Thanks for the help, One who has definitely got the bug going again, (just ask my wife) Jim
<Good stuff. Cheers, J -- > 

Diagnosing A Durso Standpipe Problem...
I have checked the freq asked quest.  But still need assistance. I have a 75 gal with one overflow box with a diy Durso standpipe made out of 1 1/4 in pvc with a 1in threaded reducer connected to the 1in bulkhead opening. This drains into a diy 20gal ecosystem sump via a 18in drop thru 1in pvc. The outlet is aprox 1in  below the water line when the water is flowing. Problem is too much noise created by the air that gets sucked down the standpipe it really gurgles when it empties into the sump. I have played around with this a lot but I haven't figured it out.  I also have a larger
air hole in the cap than recommended( 1/4in dia. as opposed to a
toothpick size hole or gradually larger).  Anything smaller caused the overflow to slowly flush up and down.  Is there anything I missed?  Is there any way to make this less noisy?  I know that this will not be silent but any thing will be better than the present conditions. Thanks, Kevin V.
<Well, Kevin- The Durso Standpipe is a great design, and really is relatively silent...I'm at a loss to explain, myself- so I'm going to recommend you contact the man himself. Richard Durso's website is:
http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm
Shoot him an email and I'm sure that he can offer some suggestions...Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F>

-Overflow Dilemma -
Dear Bob:
<Actually, JasonC today...>
It's been several weeks since I e-mailed you but I have another question that I have been unable to answer.  I have just about everything ready to go for a new 180 gallon marine aquarium (FOWLR) that I have been setting up. With your input I decided to purchase a Euroreef CS8-1 Skimmer as you may recall from my prior e-mails.  It will be placed in a 50-gallon sump in a stand beneath this aquarium.  My question deals with the tank itself.  It is from All-Glass Company and features two corner overflows (not the newer center-located overflows that are found on their newer tanks).  The Mega-Flow Overflow Kits that the dealer sold with this tank are a tight fit since All-Glass now uses the Durso standpipe system because of noise concerns, etc.  As you know, these feature a 1" bulkhead fitting in each corner and a 3/4" PVC return line.  The numerous postings on various websites regarding flow rates for this and other drilled setups has my head swimming!  The nice folks at All-Glass indicated that each overflow can handle a flow rate of 600 gph -- 1200 total for the tank.  The many letters I have read seem to present a different picture, indicating flow rates as little as 200 to 300 gph. <Nah... a total of 1200 GPH is about right.> I have a Mag 18 ready to use for the return plumbing to the tank.  I made this choice after calculating flow loss due to friction and head pressure through the 3/4" return plumbing.  The return line will use a 'Y' connector to split the flow path and eventually bend thru the 90 degree elbows near the top of the tank.  I estimated a return flow of about 820 gph -- or roughly 410 gph for each return line.  Based on the lower flow rate numbers from above (draining thru the 1" bulkheads) I am now concerned that this pump may be too powerful.  If this was your setup would you install a ball valve to control flow? <I'd install one for other reasons... being able to take the pump out to service it, etc. But again... I think you'll be fine with your pump selection.> I'm not sure how mag drive pumps can handle any type of back pressure, so I'm reluctant to do this. Or, do you believe these overflows can handle a Mag 18 without interruption? <No worries.> Just to note the Mag 18, according to the manufacturer, has a flow rate of 1200 gph at 5', and 825 gph at 11' (which is the figure I used).  Thanks for any advice you can offer.
Sam M.     
<Cheers, J -- >

Durso Standpipe = Detritus?
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hi Maurice, PF here tonight>
I have a 125 marine fish only tank and I've just cleared out my prefilter (mesh rolls) from my overflow boxes after reading some FAQs about the build up those things collect and what a nitrate heaven they are.  The water now runs straight to my sump over a bonded filter pad (which is much more accessible for cleaning) then over the bio balls.
<Remember to clean that filter pad. Have you thought about using a PolyFilter instead? It would help pull pollutants out of your system>
Now to my question, since I've removed the prefilter rolls from the overflow boxes, I now have a nice waterfall going, so I was planning to build a Durso standpipe (that I read about on your website, good idea) <I read about them here too, mine was a life saver.> in each of the overflow boxes to remedy this problem, however my concern and question is: with the water level raised being drawn from such a high level, won't you get a build up of gunk, settlement and detritus built up on the bottom? <I wouldn't think so. Depends on how high you build. You can make them lower if that's your concern. Nothing is written in stone as far as methods/procedures go.>  If yes how would you prevent this, if no why not? <I've not noticed any build up in my system, nor have I ever heard about this happening to anyone else.>
Thanks as always for the great site and advice.
Maurice
<You're welcome, hopefully this clears up your fears.>

- PF Discovers the Durso -
<Hi, Mike, JasonC here...>
Until I read today's FAQ, I had never heard of one of these. I'm taking off from work early to go buy the supplies and experience this thing called "quiet" for myself. <Geese... you been living under a rock? ;-) Anyway, you'll find this design works quite well.>
Thanks again guys!
PF
<Cheers, J -- >

Durso standpipe
Hello,
<Hi John, Don from NE with you tonight>
I have 55 gallon fish/reef and am adding a 10 gallon refugium underneath. I have a bottom drilled tank which used to have a overflow stand pipe to the sump But very noisy!  I would like to use this to feed the refugium.  I search the Internet and located the Durso standpipe. It's an overflow pipe with a tee on top, continuing to a cap with a air valve mounted in. Out of the tee is a st. elbow into the water.  You can mount a strainer to the elbow.  They state that at power failure there would be no siphon to the tank below and no noise.  Have you herd of this method or is there another safe way to complete this.
<Yes, many, many happy people using this design. Follow the directions for construction and you should be happy as well>
Many Thanks,
John from NY

3/4" Durso standpipe
Dear Craig or Steve or ??
<How about David>
I am losing my mind.    :-)
<Prozac may help>
Ok, that being said...
I managed to  ditch my 55 gallon acrylic tank and archaic J-tube siphon overflow.
I replaced it with a 55 gallon all glass tank that was
pre drilled at the bottom left side with a 1" gravity
fed drain and a 3/4" return. I got "hosed" when I fell for the trick and paid $59.99 for the  "kit" to hook the bulk heads up and
the overflow.  The "kit" basically had two bulk heads, 2 barbs, some pvc tubes and a float (which is the biggest piece of crap I have ever seen).
<Yep. I know what you're talking about>
It made so much noise when installed that I had to
remove the float assembly altogether.  There weren't
even any adjustments that would quiet it down. not
unless you know of any. ???
<Typical scenario for these package deals>
Ok, so here's where I stand now.  
I basically have the tank set up with sand and live rock...all fish are back in quarantine tanks as I had a case of ich one day prior to swapping tanks. >My overflow is making horrendous toilet flushing
sounds, so I built a Durso standpipe for it tonight.
<Ahhh...I built and use a Durso on my tanks. It don't get no better than a Durso!>
It's now 5:10 and I haven't slept a wink yet, trying to
fine tune this thing.
<Yeah but once you get it working you will never need to do this type of adjustment again>
I drilled a tiny hole in the very top of the stand pipe. on the end cap.  My hole is about the size of a toothpick. maybe a tiny bit
larger, however the sound of the air being sucked thru that hole is atrocious, and if you don't have the hole "exactly" the right size, the flow in the intake bobs up and down and sounds like toilets flushing over and over.
<Correct. Here's what I did: Start with the absolute smallest drill bit that you can find and gradually increase the size of the drill bit until the hole is perfect. Time consuming? Somewhat...but it works>
I have a 1" pvc stand pipe, however due to the small dimensions of my overflow internals, I had no choice but to downsize to the "dreaded" 3/4" so the >U-configuration would fit, and it barely does.  
<Uh Oh...I don't know what the ramifications of this move are. You're a canary in the mine on this one>
My question is "Why am I hearing so much noise at both
the overflow as well as the drain hose leading down
into my sump?"  
<My guess is the 3/4 ain't workin'. Are you absolutely sure that you can' make the 1" work? That would be the better option>
I have a 55 gallon tank with a Mag Drive 700.  It's in
the sump beneath my tank, connected on a 3/4" line
shooting straight up thru the bulkhead and out to the
return side of the overflow.
<I follow>
The intake side of the overflow/skimmer area has the
typical Durso standpipe configuration but I had to use
the 3/4" fittings going all the way down to the 1"
bulkhead where I had to put a coupling to connect 3/4"
to 1". I've been reading on the net that that could be my
problem, the fact my drain tubing is narrower than 1"
in the overflow area.
<Well, from recent experience (the last 5 years) I can tell you that the Durso was amazingly easy to assemble and install. The whole process including going to the store, getting the parts, assembly, installation, and fine tuning took about 2 hours. The operation has been almost perfect since that day. You just need to clean it occasionally>
It is evident that my sump pump is blowing air bubbles into the tank because it's pumping more water out of my sump than the overflow is flowing into the sump.
<Sounds like your pump is too strong.  Does this occur with or without the Durso? I suspect that 3/4" fitting is too restrictive for your pump. You may need to look for another design >
Should I purchase a ball or gate valve for my pump so
as to reduce water flow to the tank?
<That would be one way of dealing with it>
..hopefully slowing things down enough for the 3/4" overflow
standpipe dealie to catch up?
<I won't guarantee success but it's worth a try...and not very expensive>
Man...I'd appreciate ANY info you can give me on my
specific problem.  I have a "standard" 55 gallon tank
with the "Standard" left corner overflow siliconed in
black all the way down the corner of the tank.  It's
too tight to use the 1"+ pipes and fittings called for
in the Durso stand pipe config, so I used 3/4"
Was wondering what I can do to reduce-eliminate noises
from both the overflow and the drain tubes which are 1
1/4 sump type black hoses.
<Yeah...I'm afraid your problem is the relationship between the plumbing parts. This 1 1/4" is adequate for your tank it's the other plumbing parts that are too small...especially the Durso. If you don't get this problem solved soon, email again and I'll forward the message on to another writer that might be of more help>
Good lord I babble too much.
<Don't we all>
It's late and I'm delirious.
<It's now early and I'm delirious!>
Please help.
Steve
<David Dowless>

3/4" Durso standpipe
Dave,
I still haven't slept a wink.  Just came back from Home
Depot with some ball valves. I put a 3/4" ball valve right after the main pump in the sump, headed up to the tank (the return line).  I closed the valve a little bit to reduce water flow by
maybe 20%. I then installed a 1 1/4" ball valve on the drain hose
leading from the overflow into the sump.  The ball valve is about a foot away from this hose's exit onto my filter padding, etc.  I closed this valve about 40% and that seems to have quieted the gurgling sounds coming from the overflow hoses, so far.
<Great!>
You aren't going to believe this, but right now the 3/4" pvc tube that I temporarily am using as my standpipe, is STUCK, in the bulkhead and I cannot get it out.  I am afraid I may break the tank bottom glass.
<IMO this is a possible scenario. Handle with care!>
I already tried to pull the tube out about 10 times and used every method under the sun.  During one of my test tries, I must have put it on too tight and now cannot remove it.
<I assume this 3/4" pipe is screwed into the base? I have also had difficulty removing this item on occasion. Twist from the top and try not to favor either the left or the right side. Apply the pressure evenly and gently. As long as your not rocking the pipe or pulling on it I can't imagine that it would break the tank. No rocking, no pulling...Just apply even pressure as you turn. It will come loose>
So right now I'm using the 3/4" standpipe configuration.  I drilled the smallest hole u ever seen, on top of the unit and it is still making this sucking sound and the water in the overflow area keeps going ALL THE WAY UP , right up to the hole, then I hear it gurgle, then it comes down real fast to  the lowest point where it nearly loses it's prime.
<Exactly. This is familiar to me and to be expected. The problem? The siphoned hole in the top of the pipe isn't large enough. Use a series of drill bits going from small to larger. Drill one (like you have done) then if it doesn't solve the problem, get the next size bit and widen the original hole. Then replace the pipe and see if that works. Continue this process until you find the right size hole for the pipe. You will know instantly when you get the right size. Suddenly you'll go from hearing Niagara Falls to sweet silence>
It's the "back and forth" water movement that I can't seem to figure out.  What causes that?
<Not getting enough air so that siphon breaks. When the size is correct you will have a constant water level in the overflow...no seesawing>
I'm going to drill a tiny bit larger hole now, then I have to shut down and go to sleep....long frustrating week with this tank.
<Tanks can be and often are frustrating, exasperating and will make you say words that you never thought you would say! When people visit at our house, they frequently comment on the tank and how they have often wanted a saltwater tank. I always tell them that it's a lot of work (there are NO maintenance free systems and I don't care who tells you otherwise), and there are no inexpensive systems. In order to succeed you must love/enjoy what you are doing. Kind of like golf: The tediousness is pleasure to some and pure pain to others...depends on the personality. Take a break, get some sleep, have a beer, etc, things will get better!>
Please feel free to forward this mail to anyone u think may be of assistance.
Sleepless in Florida, I remain
<If it makes you feel any better, I've had the strep throat for 3 days and it's 4 in the morning. I can't sleep either! Let me know how this turns out please. Feeling your pain in Las Vegas, David Dowless>

Re: 3/4" Durso standpipe
Dave,
Wanted to thank you so much for the advice, although
it came two days late.
<Darn. It took me that long to answer your email? Sorry about this my friend. I'm normally much faster...>
I was able to remove the 3/4" pipe from the overflow
and install a 1" diameter pipe instead.
<YeeeHAW!!!!>
I drilled the hole in top of standpipe just a tiny bit larger, and
everything is now quiet, as well as adjusting the ball
valves on both the return and overflow lines to slow
down the flow, decreasing gurgling noises even
further.
<Ah yes...silence. What a wonderful state of being...>
The tank is up and running.  Now I need to plum in the
refugium.  A few more 6 packs and I should be there.
<HAHA!>
I'd like to send you a photo of my tank, when it's
completed.
<I'd love to see it. Do send>
I just don't know when I email ya's, who
exactly is going to be replying.
<Put my name in the subject line>
It seems there are many many people volunteering?
<Au Contraire...7 total including myself and some WWM crew members only answer very specific questions. We get 50+ emails a day, sometimes many more. It's not a small task, but enjoyable>
This is volunteer work no?
<Yes. But we do meet wonderful people and we are helping to save critters lives! A worthy goal IMO. WWM also gives aspiring publishers ($) such as myself contacts within the industry>
Is "wetweb" an actual place where people work?
<Not exactly. The name and website is the vision and creation of Robert Fenner, who owns the name and company... but there isn't a building called "Wetwebmedia." For all intents and purposes, WWM is a publishing and content provider company that exists in cyber space only. The cost of the website, and it is expensive, is paid by the advertisers that you see on our pages. The profits from this venture are then sent back through the company to pay for our publishing efforts (Have you seen the new WWM book?) and other "company" related things. While it may be hard to believe, each of us answering questions reside in different parts of the country: I'm in Las Vegas, Bob lives in San Diego, Anthony lives in Pennsylvania (I think) etc. The wonders of the web!>.
Another question....the black plastic separator at the
top of all glass tanks.  It's casting an ugly shadow
in my tank from the halide lamp above it.  The plastic
seems flimsy and I'd love to cut it off.  Has this
been done before?  Is that flimsy piece of black
plastic in the middle of the glass tank top, a
structural piece?  I just thought it was there to
support a lid and some flimsy lights.
Please ask around if it'd be ok to cut the piece away
so the entire top is unobstructed.
<If you must, proceed with caution!>
Thanks again for all the advice.
<My pleasure! It's a relief to know the problem is solved. David Dowless>
Steve

Re: 3/4" Durso standpipe
I wrote:
Ok, so now I put the 1" Durso standpipe on there and
the flow is much much better.  I drilled a 1/16" hole
and farted around with the return flow and overflow
discharge ball valves to get them sort of in sync with
one another.  Things seem ok, although now I'm having
one problem with air shooting out of my return fitting
that's about 2" below the surface of the water.  Air
is shooting out under the water when I "power up" the
system and the pump shoots a wad of pressure out all
at once.  So water and trapped air shoot out of the
tank and go about 2" high and I'm afraid it will
splash on my 250w Metal Halide bulb.
You replied:
<Use a valve to turn on the water after you turn on
>the pump. Purging of air and such is normal. Just get
>up to flow slowly.>
Craig. everything is on a timer.  So many things going
on/off at different times.  I cant be there when a
power failure occurs.  Remember, this problem only
occurs when the power goes off and then back on in my
absence.  I wanted to know a way, perhaps, down in the
sump. over the pump where I can install some type of
air release PVC uplift section where air escapes as
water is drawn down into the sump.  Please advise.
<Ah yes, sorry. I see. Honestly, it's best to shield your bulb from any possible splashing. The air in the lines really can't be helped that I can see. If water vacates, air will fill the void. When the pump comes back on, it will be expelled pretty forcefully.>
Regarding the tiny hole drilled in the return line:
You wrote:
> <You want this, although the hole should be below
> water level when running, and above when the power
> is off. This is to break the siphon between the main
> and the sump or your tank will siphon until the sump
> overflows......>
The water in my overflow, when tank is running, is
about 3" lower than the main tank water.  When I turn
the power off, that level remains the same in the
overflow, as the tank water slowly siphons down thru
the overflow's skimmer slots, yet the overflow level
remains constant at 3" below main aquarium.  It doesn't
rise/lower.  So where should I drill the hole in the
return?  
<Yep, you have those lovely All-glass overflow boxes...
Think camels, beer and e-lax.  Anyway, the holes go in the PUMP return lines to the tank if they go below the running water level or below the level of the all-glass overflows. In the event of an outage, the water is going to drain to the top of the all-glass overflows no matter what. If the *pump* return line is below this level, *it* will than siphon water through the pump, unless the return lines have small holes at the water level of the all-glass overflows. Phew! I hope this is clear! If not fire me another post...!>
Thanks again. I just need clarification. Steve
<No problemo, dude! Just let me know if you need more!  Craig>

180 Overflows
Thanks for all of your past counsel. It has proven accurate and helpful.
<We are glad to be of assistance.>
I have a 180 gallon Oceanic Reef Ready tank with two overflow boxes. I currently have a Little Giant 4MDQX pump for the return from the sump, rated at about 1100 gph. I'm considering upgrading to the Iwaki MD-70RLT which is rated at 1800 gph. I have 26 gallon Lifereef sump, as well as a Lifereef skimmer in the sump which is operated by a Little Giant 3MDQX rated at 810 gph. I am currently not having any problems with "sucking sounds" coming from the overflows. First of all, would I have any problems with the Iwaki 1800 gph pump given only the two 1" overflows?
<Possibly, but could be overcome with Durso overflows modifications or other possibilities. Do take a read through our archives on plumbing issues on www.WetWebMedia.com. I would use the Google search engine looking for the terms reef ready and overflow boxes.>
Oceanic says between 7-10x the tank's volume and I should have no problems, but I wanted to get your opinion. Also, is the Iwaki a quieter pump?
<They have that reputation.>
Thanks, Marc
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Stand Pipe
Hey guys. Searching FAQ's and all over the internet for a good answer to a question I have and couldn't find one but here goes. I am in the process of plumbing my 75 gallon tank. I have two 1.5" holes drilled
along the back with bulkheads, which flow to the sump in the stand below the tank. I am worried about the noise of the water draining. From my understanding and reading, the standpipes (Durso) are for overflow boxes or predrilled overflows on the bottom of tank not for the back with bulkheads. IYE, what can I do to eliminate or prevent that gurgling, sucking noise?
<I vent the drain pipe so that the air can escape. Instead of using the elbow that comes with most bulkhead kits, I attach a T so that it is aligned perpendicular to the ground. Water comes into the T and falls straight down while the air escapes up.>
The only thing I could find was where someone took and drilled a hole in the PVC on the top of the bend (elbow) going down to the sump. Then siliconed a piece of airline tubing about 3-4" down the PVC and left a few inches sticking up the top of the elbow.
<A similar method of venting away the air.>
Please let me know.
Thanks again, Bryan
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Durso Overflows
Thanks for your quick response. I will do as you recommend.
Two more question please:
1) I have a 125 gallon All Glass tank with the 2 overflows in each corner. I was reading last night about the plumbing you recommend for the water going out of the tank down to the filter. It was called Durso?
<Durso actually, for Richard Durso, the man who came up with a solution for a noisy overflow box.>
Where in your site can I find how to assemble?
<Richard Durso has his own website with excellent instructions. I do not see a link to his site on our links page. I would just use a search engine using the keywords Durso overflow.>
I was told by two local aquarium stores to simply use bioballs on top of eggcrate in the overflow.
<It would work to quiet the noise, but would also trap a lot of detritus.>
2) How may ball values do I need in the plumbing and where.
<One before and after pump for servicing.>
I saw your diagram by Anthony Calfo has one before the pump and after the pump, but I was thinking to put one in each line after overflows before the filter
<It is not a good idea to restrict your overflow water. This should be a nice gravity flow down to your sump/filter.>
and one in each line after the pump and after the Y split going back to the tank.
<For controlling the water from multiple outputs, gate valves are much better due to their finer control, but more expensive and harder to find.>
Thanks, Steve
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Durso Standpipe
Hi Guys
I have an Oceanic 105 reef ready tank and have the usual problem with the overflow box. I filled the box with bio balls and foam blocks and while I had my old pump it was nice and quiet. I switched to an Iwaki 30 and the noise began. The return line to the sump has a continuous air/water mixture noise. To combat the noise I constructed a Durso standpipe. I drilled a 1/16th hole in the end cap and lo and behold, the noise continues and the water level in the skimmer box is as high as the tank water. I made a 5/64 hole and the situation got worse. When I closed the hole, the sucking noise got worse. I now have the pipe with a 1/16 hole and the noise is driving me crazy. What am I doing wrong.
<I suggest you check out Durso's personal page. He has a few suggestions and potential pitfalls listed. The "Build Your Own Standpipe" page had some good info. He uses frames, so I cannot give you a direct link, but start here http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm and look around. One thing that stuck out to me was his recommendation to use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" PVC pipe into a 1" bulkhead drain.>
Thanks as always.
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Aquarium noise
Hi:
I hope you can help. We just set up a new salt water 180 gal oceanic reef
ready aquarium. It's set up in the den, so we did everything we could to keep
the pumps etc. on the quiet side. All that was for naught because you can't
hear the pumps, protein skimmer or even conversation ( well... maybe not
quite that loud ) because of the loud splashing/gurgling coming from the
overflow chamber. I tried inserting sponges where the water hits the bottom
but that didn't work. The noise apparently is coming from the drain
hole/piping instead of the water falling to the bottom of the chamber. Do you
have any ideas on quieting that sucker down?
thanks in advance
Terry
<Yes, a few... Consider building a riser out of a piece of PVC pipe that has slots cut in it (no need to get too involved here on what size, how many... you'll be able to pull out, modify as we go along...) and insert this pipe on the hole cut in your tank via a FIP fitting (thread to slip)... with the top open to allow for overflow... Am a bit tired... and don't know if this makes much sense... Some folks wrap these sorts of risers with batting material (like from the yardage store, and panduits/zip-ties... to strain out the larger particulate/suspended material as it passes through from the tank to the sump below. Bob Fenner>

Re: aquarium noise
Bob:
I know about tired....been a long day. thanks for your quick response. We
have the risers in the overflow boxes already, but I hadn't thought about
wrapping them. The noise is definitely coming from the drain hole at the
bottom. I was also thinking about cutting a piece of Plexiglas and gluing
foam sponge to the bottom with a hole cot out for the riser, but I guess I
could also put foam in the riser, since it goes all the way to the top of the
overflow. 
<Sounds good, just don't impede the flow too much, or allow a clog to occur... maybe a floating diffuser box on the entry side of your sump, with holes cut in the sides to allow the incoming water to flow out...?>
I'd then use the Plexiglas to cover both boxes without covering
the whole tank and avoiding gas exchange problems and increasing tank temps.
thanks again. Terry
<Good luck my friend. Bob Fenner>

Re: aquarium noise
Thanks again Robert:
The tank came with foam cylinders to go around the standpipes...I'll just
have to be careful to keep them clean. I have the diffuser box in the sump
too. thanks for the advice.
TP
<Hope it all works out... have rigged the bottom "box and foam" design myself for quite large flow rates in holding systems, fish hatcheries... You know, another thought/idea comes to my feeble mind... have you seen the great filter bags offered by Emperor Aquatics? Fitting one of these (get two so you can be cleaning, air-drying the other while the "A" one is in service) on the discharge of your tanks overflow line will easily remove a great deal of particulates, quiet the water flow down, and be very unlikely to result in overflow of the sump... Yeah, just checked and their link is on the wetwebmedia Links pages... hunt these bags down... very worthwhile, Bob achooo Fenner>

Re: aquarium noise
Bob:
I was surfing and found this link with what sounds like a perfect
solution....at least from all the kudos left at the site. Look under
hardware...then at the top of that screen look for the ....standpipe
http://www.rl180reef.com/frames.htm
terry
<Great... will add to plumbing FAQs. Thanks, Bob Fenner>

Strainer for Durso standpipe
I have a 1" Durso standpipe in my 75 Gal tank(1-1.4" wouldn't fit) and am having troubles with snails getting into it and clogging the drain line. Is there a strainer that would fit into my 1" street 90 and where would I find such a thing? Or do you gentlemen have a better idea? Thanks, Spence
<There are threaded strainers... you can fit a slip adaptor as an insert... or add a bit of pipe and a slip by thread coupler (if there's room) to thread this in... You can buy these online from some etailers... Check with Marine Depot, Custom Aquatic, Aquatic Warehouse (.com). Bob Fenner>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Featured Sponsors:   Web www.WetWebMedia.com