P. imperator in 8x2x2. Mixing Pomacanthus sp.  4/5/07
Hi Bob / Crew,
<*Best Tom Leykis impression;* Helloooooo Matt!>
Well I am finally setting up my 8x2x2 tank
<Awesome.>
- it will be a reef tank or sorts with LR, shallow 'sugar fine' sand bed, good flow and aggressive skimming (large Deltec skimmer).
<Sounds good so far...>
Corals will be chosen to suit fish, contrary to the usual 'visa versa' practice.
<Nothing wrong with that as long as it planned ahead and thought out, as you are doing.>
The concept being two large "hollow" mounds (islands) standing 12"-15" or so high, with a couple of branching sps corals growing on top, allowing plenty of swimming space in-between, around and under the islands/corals.
<Okay.>
The pivotal species will be Pomacanthus imperator.
<Amazing and long lived when provided the right environment...needed space.>
My hope is to get a 3" juv. (preferably red sea) and grow him on to a decent sized adult (12"+). Rather than the usual practice of trying to squeeze in half a dozen triggers, wrasse, tangs, and groupers, I would much rather just have a couple other medium to large tank mates, along with a few low impact species like gobies, damsels and Hawkfish to "fill in the gaps".
<...And by doing so you (and your pets) will be much happier in the long-term.>
The two tankmates I had in mind were P. navarchus (majestic angel) and Acanthurus leucosternon (powder blue tang).
<*Personally* I would rather leave out the first choice.  I've rarely seen two different species from this genus (Pomacanthus) work out together long, cohabitating without violent aggression in even the largest tanks. As for the surgeon, this species (and Acanthurus in general) are prone to protozoan illness, Cryptocaryon and the like.  Attain a healthy specimen that is readily eating...bright, alert of surroundings and quarantine it for no less than one month.>
The plan would be to introduce the two angels simultaneously after first quarantining in a 48"x12"x12" with a clear divider for 6 weeks, each angel at about 2-3" (at this size the navarchus would probably be adult colours and slightly bigger), and introduce the powder blue 6-8 weeks later (after suitable quarantine). MY hope would be that is this low stocking environment that the emperor and majestic would grow together and live in harmony, the emperor slowly outgrowing the majestic, then the powder blue, such that I would end up with a 12"emperor, 8-10" majestic, and 6-8" powder blue.  Does this sound a feasible plan?
<It is surely planned out and very thoughtful, I have to give you that.  I have seen this attempted in much less suitable environments. You would have an increased chance in succeeding with such a plan...and it would probably work short-term, however I feel in the long-term as their personalities emerged that there would be some issues.>
Am I being over cautious with the stocking plan - would I get away with adding a couple of other small-medium sized fish i.e. maybe a yellow tang or yellow long nose Bfly or a flame angel ..... a couple of fish that sort of size.
<In a tank of this size, there would be more physical room...yes, the territorial/psychological crowding is the issue.  If you are going to go for the two Pomacanthus angels, I would avoid any other angels all together (even the flame....Centropyge/dwarfs). But I much preferred the above options you mentioned instead....smaller gobioids and such.>
Or is my conservative approach with the 3 aforementioned species much better?
<Conservative, as far as livestock goes is always better in my experience.>
Your thoughts / comments are as always appreciated.
Regards,
<To you as well.>
Matt
<Adam J.>

Re: Emperor in Small Setting....Poor English....Cleaned it up as best I could...  4/5/07
It comes out at about 80 gallons
<I was close enough...same advice still pertains.>
it is staying as a fish only tank have a couple of chromis at the moment with the emperor its a 4 foot tank by about 2 foot and 2 foot high well like you say maybe
<Now I'm not trying to be rude...but that's not a maybe...it's a generally accepted truth when dealing with an animal of this size in captivity.>
only short term I'm not to keen on dwarf angels lol
<Tons of other options out there...>
they
<Who is they? (Sorry one of my favorite questions).>
say some emperors grow not too fast so really I can't put any thing else in with it if I was to restart without the emperor
<I'm sorry I don't get the wording of this question...you can't put anything in with the emperor angel even if you restarted the tank without the emperor...I don't understand?>
what about a majestic
<Same genus as Emperor...most of the same rules (space wise) would apply...Adam J.>

Large (abused) Angel type?  Substrate question?  9/26/06
Hello,
  A few quick questions for you if you don't mind.  
  First,  I am looking to buy a susposive
<?>
"Imperator" angel from a local guy at a great price.  It's 5"-6" long.    There are two issues.  One is that it looks just like an Imperator but it is missing the black mask.  It's face is all white???
<... Likely the result of an HLLE syndrome... I'd pass>
  Any ideas on what or why this is?
<History of poor nutrition mostly>
The owner has had it two years and said that it changed form it's juvineile
<Spell-check, please>
color over a year ago.  I don't think that the water quality is so good as he does the water changes every 6 weeks.  Second is that it's top dorsal fin is kinda jagged and torn.
<More evidence of poor environment, nutrition>
  Is this any think to be concerned about.
<Mmm... yes>
I am getting the Angel and it's 4 tank mates for $75.  Here are the tank mates: 4" maroon clown, 5" Picasso Trigger, a 4"-5" raccoon butterfly.  The trigger is hand fed I know, I a little concerned about that to) and comes to the top so you can pet him????  They have all been together for 2 years in a 120 gallon.  Do you see any compatibility issues here?
<... see WWM re each species...>
What is the best substrate for this crew?
<Ditto...>
  Do you
think that I can put my 4"-5" Green wrasse (I think it's a Halichoeres melanurus) with these fish in my 120 gallon?   Can I add a Cole tank to this bunch?  
  And last,  I have a bunch of 1/4"-3/8" crushed coral.  Is there any way to get this finer?  Maybe down to 1/8"?   
  Thanks, as always for you contribution to our hobby!!
  Randy
<Read on my friend, read on. RMF>

Imperator Angel/Selection  9/18/06
Hey crew,
<Hey Matt>
Just a brief question about P. imperator.
Considering getting one. From all the reading I’ve done, everyone reckons the Red Sea emperors are much better than Indian Ocean etc. My thing is, I have enquired with my dealer, and he tells me it is difficult to get a specimen from his suppliers anything smaller than 6” in adult colour form. I also understand it is generally better to get a juvenile than an adult, from the point of view of adapting to captivity.
Hence, my question is – all things being equal, would you consider a small adult (5-6")from the red sea to be a better (more hardy) choice than a large juvenile from elsewhere?
<I'd probably go with a 3 to 4" juvenile from the Indo Pacific. Read here and related links above for more info.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Regards,
Matt

Pondering Purchase of Imperator Angel - 4/14/2006
Hi WWM staff!
<<Hi Chris.>>
First, I would like to thank all of you at WWM for your time, effort, and advice. I have learned much from just browsing through the many topics available here.
<<You are quite welcome.>>
My question is this:
I am considering adding an Imperator Angel to my established reef tank. The tank is a 120-gallon system that has been up and running for around 9-10 years.
<<Must be full of life!  I personally don’t’ think a 120-gallon tank can, or should house this fish long-term.  I would opt for double this volume.>>
Of course, I have modified and changed things over that period of time, but basically, it has grown and done well. From what I have read, the main things I will put at risk would be my zooanthids, mushrooms, button polyps, LPS corals, and my clams.
<<I would worry most for my clams.>>
I am moving the tank in the direction of mainly an SPS tank and also have several SPS frags in place and growing well.  Most seem to agree the angel will leave the SPS corals alone.
<<It is really up to the Angel, but SPS are in the least amount of danger.>>
Really, of those things listed, my only concern would be my clams. I have 2 4-5 inch Croceas and a large football size derasa that I have grown for about 7-8 years now.
<<Must be lovely.>>
My LPS corals consist of an open brain, small candy cane, and Favia.
<<I would worry about these too.>>
Soft corals include zooanthids, sea mat, button polyps, mushrooms, star polyps, yellow polyps, Sinualria, and Lobophytum. If the Imperator would bother any of these except for the large derasa, I would be more than willing to relocate them to a friend’s tank.
<<Always good to have a back up plan.>>
I think my main concern is tank size. My existing fish are a Powder Blue Tang, 2 Spot Bristletooth, Pyjama Cardinal, 3 clown gobies, and a lawnmower blenny.
<<I would not add this large angel into this system.>>
I've had my eye on the angel at a local LFS now for 2 weeks. It's approximately 3-4", great color, actively eating a good variety of foods including pellets, Mysis, & brine shrimp and has very bold behaviour. I really believe it is as good a specimen as I could find anywhere and do not want to let it get away if it would be possible to keep it in my system. I would be very interested to get your opinion on adding this guy to my tank with the knowledge that it would be the last fish added even if I would eventually lose one of the others.
<<I really cannot recommend this fish for your tank.  Have you thought of upgrading the tank size, giving you more stocking freedom?  A Centropyge angel would work as well.>>
One other question while I'm thinking about it, what is your opinion on how clown gobies interact with SPS corals? I've noticed that they tend to "perch" in the branches of corals.
<<Indeed they do.>>
I've not noticed any detrimental effects other than the corals seem to keep their polyps retracted when the gobies are there. Could this possibly harm the corals or cause them undue stress?
<<Highly unlikely.  This is a perfectly natural behaviour.  Enjoy it!>>
Thank you!
Chris
<<Glad to help.  Lisa.>>

Emperor Acclimation  - 01/09/2006
This is my third emperor in about 4 months.   The  first two were teeny tiny juv.s (about an inch long)  
<Too small to start... shame on the collectors>
this one is  probably twice that size,  maybe a little more.  I thought a slightly  older one might get over whatever am missing.
<Better at 3-4 inches overall length>
  Its starting off in a  30 gallon fish only ( yes I know,  please don't hurt me! )
<You will do this yourself>
  Its  tankmates are 3 cinnamon clowns and a bi-color blenny.
<Too small a volume. I hope they are leaving the angel alone>
  The first two  days after getting him home he seemed fine, swimming around picking at
the  rocks etc.  But now after a few days, and like the last two he is staying   at the top,   not moving two much.  His breathing seems  normal,   his fins
seem fine, coloration gets white and blotchy  occasionally, but from what I've read here,   and what I can see,   probably cause he isn't happy about something.  
<Like your grammar>
I did probably about a 10%  water change,  maybe a little more.  My readings all "appear "normal,  ammonia and nitrite at 0.0 and my nitrate at 10,  is that normal?  
<Mmm, okay, normal>
I have to admit that my biggest success at saltwater was a  panther grouper who got to about 6 or 7 inches from 1.
<A very hardy aquarium species>
  Though I read  they are the Oscars of saltwater fish.
<An apt comparison>
Back to the angel, ( sorry I have  that a.d.d thing )  
<Ahh, I have other shortcomings, not quite so popular>
I have halfheartedly attempted feeding him  different things,  but if he isn't well that would be hard to get him to  do?
<Yes... or too stressed... I would not place a Pomacanthus angel in such a small system, with other fishes as you list...>
Eat I mean.  Right now I have the lights off in the tank and my  fingers crossed.   What have I done? If you can possibly tell from  this incoherent rambling email.
<Please take a read re our Emperor Angel materials: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm
and the linked files above. You can avoid mistakes with the knowledge archived there. Bob Fenner>

Emperor Angel for my tank? 3/30/05
Hi, I was thinking of getting an emperor angel. But I need clarification on some things. I heard that they are not very hardy and need sponges in their diet. Is this true? 
<Emperors are challenging, but the key is getting a healthy specimen to begin with. I would suggest purchasing a juvenile from the Red Sea (you need to trust your dealer!). Ask your fish store to hold it for a few days and be sure to observe it eating. Be sure to look carefully for signs of disease, malnutrition or odd behavior. The fish should "run" as you approach the tank, but healthy well adjusted specimens will be curious and bold. Avoid any that are excessively "edgy", shy or that hide constantly. A varied diet that is rich in marine algae is important. Sponge may or may not be necessary, but Ocean Nutrition Angel formula is a very convenient source. Mysis shrimp, high quality pellets and other quality frozen foods are all good choices.>
I have a 75 gallon tank with 30# of live rock and ~100 pounds of lace rock. Would this be enough to sustain him? I will be getting an Aqua-C remora skimmer. I love these fish and would love to have one in my tank. Thanks 
<A higher proportion of live rock may be beneficial (more to graze on), but with a variety of quality food, it should do fine. Do keep in mind that even a juvenile will outgrow your tank in a year or two. Best Regards. AdamC.>

- Emperor Angel Size -
Thanks again,
One final question, I know this is a bit hit and miss but how big should I expect the emperor to get. Does the fact that I have had him since he was literally 3/4 of an inch make any difference?? <Well, in the wild these fish are honkers... almost 18" - but in your system, and especially because you've had it since it was small, it probably won't get any bigger than 10" or so.>
Thanks.
<Cheers, J -- >

Emperor Angels
I have a 72 gallon tank with 2 damsels and I have kept other angels including Korans, Queens, Coral Beauties and the only ones I couldn't take care of is those Rock beauties. <sometimes Holocanthus tricolor is hardy and other times they die for no apparent reason>I was thinking on trying out a juv 4 inch Emperor Angel. <they are normally pretty hardy fish, but if you have a hard time keeping angelfish alive I strongly recommend you leave these fish at your LFS> So with my experience with those angels do you think that I could take care of one of these? thank you <Probably not, sounds like you are a very inexperienced aquarist, you need to keep hardier fish such as groupers, eels, certain species of wrasses and then graduate to angelfish especially large angelfish such as the Pomacanthus imperator...which grow to around 15"-in the long run this fish will be much too large for your small aquarium, Good luck, IanB>

Imperator Angel
Great news! My Auriga butterfly is dong great now after 3 weeks of good treatment and a diverse mix of foods. Redness is almost gone and he eats everything!
<Very good!>
I just purchased an adult Imperator Angel... not too big, about 6 inches long. 
<About my maximum size at purchase for this species.>
He is eating a mix of vegetation, algae, seaweed, broccoli, Nori and spinach tied to a rock, but he is not interested in any meaty stuff right now. Very curious... he moves gracefully around the tank, gets picked-on by the Blue Hippo Tang once in a while because they both compete for the same rock with the veg. What concerns me, is a small hole more towards the bottom of his stomach, close to his privates. Looks like something may have bit him or perhaps it may be some kind of bacterial infection in his stomach working it's way out? 
<Possibly... but doubtful... maybe a "poke" by the Tang, or a mechanical injury... I wouldn't "treat" for this>
Ho do I know if this fish was cyanided/poised when captured? 
<Please read through WetWebMedia.com re cyanide collection, livestock selection... color, behavior are best clues... not likely cyanided if eating...>
It has been 3 days since introduced , the good thing is he is roaming around and eating pieces of algae but I am very concerned about the hole. What could it be? Another thing out of the norm, the first day he had 2 very long excretions of brown substance, pretty thick light brown, just hung there attached to him for a day. Is this normal if he just ate a lot at the store? I thought there may be an infection? Any feedback would be great. Thanks.
<Best to just keep an eye on this specimen, keep up your efforts at optimizing the environment. Bob Fenner>

Adult emperor angel
Dear Bob,
Hope you are keeping well. Been diving lately ?
<Sure... N. Sulawesi last mo., Cozumel the one before...>
- going to be doing some Ko Similan diving in the new year, in the Andaman sea :-) !! Can't wait.
<Should be great>
Anyway, the question in hand concerns P. Imperator. Now bear in mind that I save 3+ years experience, growing a juvenile emperor through its colour change to adult, from 2.5" to 6", and lost him due to a prolonged power cut, in cold miserable old Ireland (i.e. not due to bad care / husbandry / diet), so I have had reasonable success with the species. It has been nearly a year now since I lost him, and I'd dearly love another, but I couldn't go through the whole colour change thing again! Would you be very oppose to me getting a small adult specimen? 
<Not at all... you can likely find an adult-colored individual about 5 inches overall... that will be flexible, stable enough to place in captive conditions with little trouble... In fact, you're close enough to the Red Sea that I would look for a specimen collected there>
In this part of the world I see lots of folks (in magazines) keeping large imported adults in densely stocked FO tanks - I can attribute this only to the excellent quality of livestock from TMC.
<These folks have really "got it together".>
Thus I am thinking, that with the little experience I have with the species, and a tank devoted to just one large fish, that my odds are even greater than those large FO heavily stocked tanks I see.
<Yes>
As I say, livestock comes through TMC, and my dealer is very good with angels etc, so handling of the fish will have been as good as is humanly possible, and I am practically guaranteed a healthy initial specimen.
<Good>
Tank mates will be a shoal of green Chromis, a blenny or two, a dwarf angel, and a few cleaner shrimp. Decor will be simply a large cave that he can swim into, and around, above and through, and get out of sight (probably build it up on a PVC pipe structure, so there is loads of room inside it). Then a few pieces of rock scattered around the tank to break it up.
<Very good>
As you can see, I am willing to go to great lengths to ensure that the entire system is built around the emperor, with no competitive or aggressive fish, and aquascaped to suit him. I am also a believer of regular, but small water changes - i.e. 10% weekly.
Thanks for reading,
kind regards,
Matthew
<Do document your efforts, including reflection on your previous history with the species... and offer same as an article in PFK, elsewhere... I will help you get placement here in the States... and later post in WWM if you'd like. Bob Fenner>

Re: adult emperor angel
Dear Bob,
Just to say that it pleases me to think that some-one of your standing would
consider publication of my efforts with this wonderful fish.
<It is my opinion that your observations, experiences would greatly inform and inspire others in appropriate care, enjoyment...>
It is looking very likely that I will go with this little project of mine as
the emperor angel is, for me, the embodiment of all the best attributes of
large marine angels, indeed marine fish in general. To document the whole
process would be rather exciting for me also - I had a flair for creative
writing in the past, and would very much like to put it to use, writing
about something I love.
<Please do begin... and make it known if I/we can be of service (perhaps supplying images, editing...)>
I actually have a few pics of my old part changed emperor, which although
are not great, would probably be good enough to include. And with my new
digital camera, there will be many more pics of my new one.
<Very good>
Thanks again for your reply, it is most encouraging.
Kind regards,
Matthew
<Be chatting, and writing, my friend. Bob Fenner>

The Emperor's long fins
I'm curious as to where the emperor angel comes from with the streamer on its dorsal fin?    i have an adult coloration emperor angel that's a good 7 inches with a streamer at the end of his dorsal fin?     can anybody tell me what part of the world he is from?  and the location?
<The elongation of unpaired fins in this (and many other fishes) is mostly a matter of size, age and excellent care, not source locale. You can look up Pomacanthus imperator on fishbase.org for this fish's distribution range>
  I've seen some jumbo sized adults without a streamer?  any clues as of why some get the streamers and some don't.     thanks in advance!
<Again, the trailing length of dorsal, caudal and sometimes anal fin rays is more a matter of good husbandry. Bob Fenner>

(Too small) juvenile emperor angel
Good morning,
I have a quick question, I hope.  I bought a juvenile emperor (about 2
inches in length) for my 220g FOWLR tank.  All water parameters are good as
my other fish are doing very well.  The angel appeared fine at first,
although it did take about a week to start eating (brine shrimp).  The last
couple of days it has become completely lifeless, sitting on the gravel and
not swimming and picking around at the live rock, also has stopped eating.
I removed it last night as I noticed its fins becoming very ragged and its
tail almost disappearing over night.  I've watched carefully and do not
see any fish picking on it so I'm assuming it must be some type of
parasite.
<Or collateral "stress" reaction... resultant from capture, holding, shipping... through the chain of custody of the trade to you.>
I gave it a fresh water bath for 8 minutes last night and put it
into a quarantine tank.  I was going to put it through a copper treatment
for a couple of weeks to see if this helps, do you think this is the right
thing to do?  Any suggestions?  If I do put copper in this quarantine/sick
tank how long should it stay in there.  Thanks
<Mmm, please take a read through an old article on this species archived on our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm
I encourage folks to acquire this fish at 10-14 cm... Yours was/is likely "too small" to start. I would not copper its water, but would isolate it as you have, place a bit of live rock for comfort, water conditioning, food availability, hope to coddle it back to health. Bob Fenner>
Joe

RE: 90 gallon FOWLR
Thanks for your response!! Do you think I could get a year and a half to 2
years with the imperator if I started with one that's around 2" in length to
start? thanks again
<Better to start with a larger specimen (see the www.WetWebMedia.com site re this species), and plan on a larger tank sooner... Bob Fenner>

Pomacanthus imperator and Pomacanthus maculosus
Hello bob,
my dealer had some show size angel and I fell in love with the 16 to 18 inches imperator and maculosus angel
immediately I saw them. do you think at this size ( 16-18inches) are they easy to keep?
<Decidedly not as easy to keep as ones collected at "reasonable" (a few inches) in length and raised in captivity... Fishes (actually all animals) collected "large" are less adaptable to captive conditions... like food acceptance, getting along with other "novel" species... And shame on the collectors and retailers for extracting adults... leave these in the seas to reproduce.>
at the moment they look great. if you were me which one will you purchase? the maculosus or the imperator angel. and why?
<Mmm, neither... as I am morally opposed to their collection in the first place. Bob Fenner>

Imperator angelfish questions
Hi.  I two questions.  First, I have an opportunity to purchase a P. Imperator that was collected in or around Japan. The catch is that I will not be able to see the fish before I commit to purchasing it. I know that there are color variations in P. imperator based upon geography and have been told that specimens from Japan are uniquely colored.  The problem is, after combing through books and searching online, I can't find anything that discusses this variant.   Do you know how they are different and/or can you direct me to a picture of one?  
<Mmm, no. I have read (fishbase.org among other places) that the species ranges to S. Japan, the Ogasawaras... but have never seen it imported (to the west) from there>
This fish would be the only angelfish in a 180 gallon LRFO system.  Finally, I have purchased fish in this manner before and, with rare exception, most all have thrived.  Second question.  I also have the opportunity to purchase a pair of, or at
least one, C. interruptus and also one C. Multicolor.  The fish, if I do purchase them, would go into a 110 reef tank that already has a C. aurantius.  I have read the FAQ's on keeping more than one Centropyge per tank and know that
generally its a bad idea.  Not wanting to miss out on these rare and beautiful fish I'm trying to cover all my bases before making a decision. I'm wondering if you think that size of my tank would allow me a greater likelihood of keeping an additional Centropyge species and, if so, which between the C. Interruptus and C. Multicolor would be less likely to cause a problem with my C. Aurantius.  
<Likely the Interruptus, being a bit smaller... but Goldens are used to a good amount of space to themselves (thousands of gallons in the wild). Bob Fenner>
Your help and opinions are much appreciated.  Michael Jacobs