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FAQs on Marine Environmental Disease: Poisoning; Endo- and
Exo-genous; Not From Livestock
Related Articles: Environmental Disease, Establishing
Nutrient Cycling, Marine
Water Quality, Maintenance,
Related FAQs: Environmental Disease
1, Marine Environmental Disease 2,
Marine
Env. Disease 3, Marine Env. Disease 4, Marine
Env. Disease 5, Marine
Env. Disease 6, Marine Env. Disease 7,
Marine Env. Disease 8,
Marine Env. Disease 9,
Marine Env. Disease 10,
Marine Env. Disease 11,
Marine Env. Disease 12,
Marine Env. Disease 13, & FAQs on Environmental Disease By Cause/Types:
Environmental Deficiencies,
Oxygen/Gas Problems, Mis-stocking:
Psychological Challenges, (Aggressive
Behavior,
Territoriality, ),
Physiological
Challenges (e.g. Metabolites, Allelopathy, Stinging), &
Troubleshooting/Fixing,
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Metabolites most often... sometimes
endogenous rhythms, wars twixt microbes... Metals, oh yeah... And a
biggie: so-called "fish medicines"... There are a bunch of bogus ones
about, that won't treat much of anything, but can/do interrupt
nitrification...
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Rusting Bolt 9/24/08 Good
Afternoon Crew, et al. I have a maintenance account which consists of an
approximately 350 gallon saltwater aquarium with a Living Color artificial reef
backdrop insert...I love these inserts, by the way. It has been up and running
for about a year now and quite frankly has been nothing but hassle with regards
to keeping anything alive and healthy. The filtration system consists of a
50 gallon sump with Live Rock, PM XL-1 Skimmer, Nu-Clear Canister w/Carbon, 120
watt Aqua UV Sterilizer, 3/4 HP Arctica Chiller and 3 Pan World 200PS return
pumps. The salt mix used is Tropic Marin and parameters are generally Temp: 78 -
80F, SG: 1.023, pH: 7.9 - 8.1 NH4, NO3: 0 and NO2: 10 -15ppm. I have had
some trouble keeping specimens alive in this system and I think I may have
stumbled upon the reason on Monday. After becoming thoroughly frustrated, I took
the entire filtration system apart to perform a complete inspection and found an
approximate 1/2" bolt had at some point during construction fallen into the sump
and was buried under all of the live rock. The only way I knew it was a bolt is
because the washer, which must be stainless steel, was still visible- the rest
of the bolt had turned into a great big mass of iron oxide. Could this be
the problem I've been having all along? I immediately removed the bolt and placed
poly filters onto the spill of the sump into the pump chamber. <I think this
was likely the problem...or a big part of it. Get the water cleaned up, and I
suspect you'll have much better luck with this system.> Thanks for your
time...once again. <No problem> Scott C. Wirtz <Benjamin>
Yellow Tang banging against glass,
env.-chemically burned, pH 8.8 8/16/08
Hello Crew,
<Cielo>
I have a 5 inch yellow tang that I picked out on Mother's day 08 from our LFS.
Up until now all my fishes have been healthy. A little background on my tank: I
have a 55 gallon tank
<Not really sufficient space...>
with 60lbs of live sand and 30lbs of live rock, a protein skimmer, and a whisper
filter.
Three days ago I made a 20 gallon water change. 2 Mornings after that change I
woke up to a noise and found that it was my yellow tang banging himself against
the light hood of the tank, almost like he wanted to get out.
<Mmmm>
Then he began darting against the glass and hitting himself against it. I
noticed that he had red or pink on the inside of his lips and also across his
body.
The next day he stopped eating. I checked my levels and they read: Ammonia 0,
Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0, but my PH was 8.8
<Yeeikes! Caustic>
so I went to the LFS and purchased a buffer.
I was told I should quarantine
<?>
him so that I wouldn't need to medicate the whole tank as the other fish are
fine. The medication I purchased is the Myracid Two.
<... Maracyn... Minocycline... of no use here>
I only had a 5 gallon tank
<Much too small...>
available to make a QT out of, and so that is where I placed my Tang. Right now
he's on his side at the bottom of the tank, he is hardly breathing.
<...>
At least in the display tank he was still swimming around. Should I place him
back in the display tank? I need your advice.
~L from PA
<YES, now! Bob Fenner>
Stainless steel clamps 10/19/05
Hi Crew!
<Howdy Steve, Ali here...>
Sorry, I just sent an email regarding a different question and meant to include
this one.
<No worries...>
I have a 215 gallon tank with a large wet/dry underneath. Most of the plumbing
is located under the main tank, in between it and the wet/dry below. The
installers (LFS technicians) routed the plumbing very neatly and efficiently,
however they used metal clamps around the fittings and clear tubing. They
appear to be stainless and just barely above any water level, however because we
have a cabinet enclosing the wet/dry, there is quite a bit of humidity and most
everything is constantly wet. Could this be a
problem?
<Yes.>
Please advise because I do not want to be poisoning my fish and live rocks with
metals leaching into the water as the metal clamps corrode. Your comments are
greatly appreciated. Regards, Steven
<Yikes Steven! It's safe to say that you should avoid any type of metal clamps
on your pump connections. Granted, the stainless steel pumps will last a bit
longer in a saltwater environment versus other metal clamps, however even they
will still rust. Definitely not a good thing. There is also a chance that your
clamps may be Zinc or Aluminum plated - this definitely a big 'no no'. I'd
suggest you remove the clamps ASAP and opt for either a few strong zip-ties or
plastic hose clamps. Give me a buzz down at M.D. and I'll set you up with a pack
of them. Dedicate an hour or so during the next couple of days to getting under
your tank and swapping those metal clamps out. I know messing around with your
plumbing can be a tedious task at times, however it's important you get in there
immediately and be proactive. Talk to you soon Steven, Adios! - Ali A.>
My never ending money pit..... Poss. issues with synthetic marine decor
1/31/06
Hello,
<Hi there>
My name is Matthew and first off let me say I love your book when I purchased
all my aquarium supplies it was one of the first things the store clerk had me
put in my cart, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Every time I buy something
for my tank I always thumb through the pages to see what your opinion is. Anyway
here is my dilemma.... I have a 75 gallon bow front tank. At this time I have
1 Hippo Tang (2 to 3 inches very healthy)
1 Niger Trigger ( 3 inches) newly acquired seems very healthy likes to hide in
the live rock and eats all the time.
1 Clarki Clown ( 2 inches) seems healthy
Numerous hermit crabs ( a mix of red legs and zebra a little of everything)
Snails ( a mix of everything algae eating I could find) 1 small queen conch and
1 chocolate chip starfish.
<I do hope your trigger leaves these invertebrates alone...>
I have about 35 - 40 lbs of live rock, 2 inches of sand and crushed coral, 2
power heads (300 gph) 1 Rena canister filter ( 375 gph) and a CPR Bak Pak
protein skimmer with the built in bio filter. About 4 weeks ago I purchased a
faux anemone, I read the package to read any care instructions to find out that
you have to wash it very good to make sure there is no residue that may affect
your protein skimmer. I rinsed it for about 1 hour and then put it in my tank .
Later that night my protein skimmer overflowed with water, I turned it off
rinsed it out and put it back on my tank. For two weeks straight I ran this
skimmer at the setting which it had been out the entire time I owned it. It
always ran fine collecting waste. For two weeks I ran the skimmer no waste. I
opened the water intake more for two more weeks no waste. the whole time doing
my Monday water changes and readings. 8.2 ph, 0 nitrite, 10- 20 nitrate, 0
ammonia and 1.022 - 1.024 salinity. All this skimmer wanted to do was dump
millions of are bubbles into my tank. Looking on the internet a lot of people
had a lot of different opinions about un dissolved micro bubbles in your tank
and the affect it may have on the oxygen exchange. Thinking there was some sort
of weird chemical in my tank, from the faux anemone,
<I would remove this... see if this curtails the excess bubbling>
I have been running Kent Marine Carbon in my canister for almost two days. Also
for those two days I have been running my newly acquired CPR Bak Pak (no waste
yet just micro bubble in my tank) the skimmer seems to be working fine the
entire chamber is filled with micro bubbles but no waste. I don't know what to
do algae is overtaking my tank red slime and green algae. I have 384 watts of
power compact lights 2 96 watt white 2 96 watt blues. What is your opinion what
should I do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Matthew McGlynn
<I have heard some disturbing input re some of the material, manufacture of
synthetic decor... I hope you will not have real trouble... but I would remove
this and see. Bob Fenner>
Undergravel Filter
Hi Bob <Hi Robert sorry for the delay in getting to back to you. MacL here,
Bob is off at the Galapagos and the rest of us are very envious!>
I have a 60 gallon tank, and have enjoyed it for the past four months I've had
it. it has all the usual, a sump filter, skimmer, etc.....etc. but the other day
I purchased the death of my fish, an undergravel filter. Yes I had purchased
this item after seeing another tank with one in and thought that's actually not
a bad idea as I noticed a lot of crap on the bottom of my tank floor where
little flow gets to.
so I wondered down to my local pet/fish store and got the undergravel tray and a
power head to "suck the crap out of it".
I put the undergravel tray in, and powered up the powerhead looking good I
thought.
put all the fishes and my one shrimp back in there newly decorated home.
Everything was looking good, fish seemed happy so did the corals coming out to
full bloom. Two days later disaster hit, my yellow tail damsel was swimming side
ways. I did an emergency 30% water change and still the fishes seem sick. There
eyes are completely black and there breathing is heavy. all my levels are text
book levels I'm stumped I have a large air stone going all the time. <I would
have thought your ammonia or nitrite levels would have been high. When you put
the undergravel in, it has to go through a "cycle" yet again with the ammonia
rising and then the nitrites as at the beginning of your tank. You already had
some bacteria in the tank so it should have been fairly quick but when you moved
your sand or crushed coral to place the undergravel you had to have disturbed
your bacterial bed there.>
PH 8.3
ammonia/nitrite/nitrate all at 0
phosphate 0
calcium 420-430
but yet my fish are not getting any better, at the mo I have made a small tank,
to see
if they get better. fingers crossed P.S. the undergravel filter doesn't have
gravel over it, the gravel is around the outside of it and I have placed my live
rock on top of the undergravel filter. (By definition an undergravel filter
needs to have some type of medium to filter through. <Generally in a salt system
that is crushed coral or sand. It sounds like you might be looking at something
similar to a plenum system. I would encourage you to look at the FAQs on
WetWebMedia about the plenum system. I think what's happened is that you have
destroyed your bacterial bed Robert. Or a least seriously messed with it. This
should show some kind of ammonia rise however so you not having one seriously
has me stumped. Have you double checked your water? Did you take your ammonia
readings before or after the water change? You say you've set up a small tank to
move the fish into as a type of quarantine? Watch for ammonia rises there as
well.>
Please Help....
Regards
Robert
Gravel Filter
<Hi Robert, MacL here again>
Thanks for the reply, disturbing the sand could have been the culprit. I got my
hands on a book and all the symptoms point to poisoning of some sort, so I did a
70% water change and everything is back to normal, as for the source of my
poisoning problem maybe it was from disturbing the sand but I would have thought
with a four to five month setup there wouldn't be
much to effect the balance of the tank, but nothings impossible. <Had you
touched anything then touched the tank? Put anything new into the tank? Sprayed
anything around the tank?> I had done my tests as soon as I noticed the sick
fish and got the fish store to double check and their readings were a match. <It
never hurts to double check, I once got a bad bunch of chemicals>
Thanks for the reminder on watching the levels in the quarantine tank, levels
are good but salinity is the hardest one as the tank is only a 12Gal, I need to
upgrade that to.
My corals also were effected but all seem back to normal. <Great to hear> Well
luckily have been reasonably patient with the setup and not put a huge amount of
live stock in there all at ounce, I think I'll leave the tank alone for now and
think twice before acting on my sudden urges. Thanks again. <Good luck and
please keep us updated. MacL
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Rapid Breathing Onset
I have a 55 gal marine reef system. Tank is going on three months now and
seem to be cycled with 85 pounds of live rocks<Use care...it's "cycled, but not
"established" which takes nearly a year>. My live stock are yellow tang, 3
Chromis, mated pair black saddle back clown fish, true Percula clown fish,
engineer goby, small brittle starfish, arrow crab, and a pistol shrimp.
Seriously I thought fight would break out among the clown fish but they seem to
get along<I've had the same results, but who am I to argue?>. Anyway my question
is yesterday my fishes were all fine, they normally are aggressive eater when
its feeding time and they look pretty healthy. well the problem is the next day
majority of all my fishes are breathing rapidly like they were going to die. One
of my clown is breathing extremely fast as if he was going to die and the day
before he was eating fine. All the fishes are not acting usual and appetite is
gone too. They only thing that seem to be normal is my inverts. what do you
think the problem could be. I also removed the carbon media a couple days so I
could treat the whole tank with Kick Ich
a medication that was said to be reef safe
<First off, there's no such thing as a
reef safe, effective medication. The only thing this usually cures is excessus
dollerus in the walletus>
. I check my water and my Ph is the only thing out of
place.
Ph in main tank 7.8
Ph in sump 7.7
nitrate- undetectable
nitrite- undetectable
ammonia undetectable
Do you think it cold be the medication that is dropping the Ph or do you think
it is the missing carbon media? Or do you think there are other reason my fish
are acting so strangely. they way there acting I don't think there going to make
it.<You don't mention why you treated the tank for ick. If it was merely for the
rapid breathing, you blew it, and should immediately always think of extra water
changes as the FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE and never treat your main tank. You're tank
is actually overcrowded and if you, like many, tend to overfeed, that's likely
the source of your problem. You also don't mention having a skimmer which
you NEED with that fish load in a tank that small.
for now, do 5 gal. water changes every other day, which should alleviate the
breathing problem and gradually raise your pH as well. There are products for
raising pH, but that's a time bomb best not played with. Chemicals and
medications are reached for way to easily, ending up BEING the problem in almost
90% of the situations.>
DOH! I Broke the Thermometer, Now What?
>Hi Bob and team.
>>Hello, Marina tonight.
>I'm afraid I've had a disaster in my 200 gallon reef aquarium. While
recently double checking my chiller reading, I stupidly left a thermometer in my
sump. I found it this morning, broken at the pump intake.
>>Oh my, thusly the term "disaster". It's not as disastrous as
you think, though.
>The lead balls have been sucked into the pump and the mercury is gone.
>>Not mercury anymore, my friend, usually alcohol (with a dye) is used in
modern thermometers.
>Everything in the tank looks OK so far (corals and fish), but I can't
imagine that'll last. What should I do? I'm sure water changes, carbon and
PolyFilters will help but I can't imagine I'm ever going to find the lead
balls?
>>No, I don't imagine you will, either. But I wouldn't expect such a small
amount to be a very big problem in the short or long run anyway. If you're very
concerned about the contents, contact the manufacturer, but to the best of my
knowledge the potential for mercury would be the biggest issue and as far as I
know it hasn't been used for quite a few years. You're correct, water changes,
carbon, and PolyFilters will help, though I don't know at all how readily lead
actually dissolves in water (thinking of wrecks of Spanish galleons and all the
lead shot/balls they find, all encrusted with stuff).
>Any advice you can give would be great. I hate the thought of tearing down
my tank and starting again. Dave.
>>No, no, no, I really don't think you'll need to go so far. Between the
water changes and the chemical filtration you should be able to deal with the
small amount of dye released. For "next time", get a bit of clear
plastic tubing, the kind used for undergravel filter lift tubes, along with
caps. The caps can be the same clear plastic, or PVC that fits. Glue one end
(I'd use Superglue-cyanoacrylate) on permanently, leave the other so you can
slip it on and off. Drill some holes in the tube, and it will protect the future
thermometer from such terrible mishaps. Marina
Cleaning magnet in tank, Eclipse Modification
Hello Mr. Fenner,
I just finished reading today's Q&A's & the last one about lighting for the
Eclipse system. I started an experimental 25g Eclipse system a few
months back & am thoroughly happy w/it. The CustromSeaLife
retro PowerCompacts are terrific lights. And very easy to install.
I cut the back of the plastic and have added a protein skimmer and
a couple of power heads.
<Thank you for this input>
This little tank is supporting (I know you
wont like this)-A mated pair of true Perc's, a Flameback angel (African),
a yellow assessor, a orange spotted blenny. All very small fish.
Also, a torch coral, a hammer coral, an Alveopora, a frilly mushroom
and a small bubble tip anemone. Everything is thriving! I highly recommend
this lighting setup.
On another note-My brother leaves his algae cleanup magnet in his 180g
reef tank, set up in Nov.01, & now he is noticing that the corals are dying
or not looking as great on the left side of the tank (where the magnet is).
Could there be a chemical reaction of some sort going on in that portion
of the tank?
<Yes. Most aquarium magnets are safe for leaving in a system... but not all. I would pull these out when not in use... Please have your brother contact us re water chemistry checking, use of Polyfilter... as moves to correct the situation. Bob Fenner>
Welcome back & thanks in advance.
Craig
Formalin Med. Poisoning effects
Talk about a bad day...
I lost my grey and Koran angels today (see old email below...).
I had an outbreak of ick on Tuesday and we started a treatment recommended by my local store using
Formulite II. Per their direction, I removed my carbon and inverts (shrimp, urchin, and hermits) and added the medication - Two drops per gallon. I then did the second of the 3 recommended treatments on Thursday PM. On Friday everyone was looking great and everyone was eating like a bunch of hungry truck drivers.
The two angels from Friday to Saturday morning developed a major amount 'slime' on their bodies and got foggy eyes. I'm guessing the medication caused this. Anyway, I threw carbon in my baskets and I did a
RO water change of 15 gallons again per the local rec.- but both angels were dead by 5:00 pm. They looked like they were dipped in slim when I pulled them out.
Where did I go wrong? So far my remaining family is looking fine but obviously I'm very concerned and my wife is really bummed out. Today was a very expensive day and I am open for any suggestions...
Thanks,
Tom Tengowski
P.S. - The black cap also died earlier this week also...I can't get a break.
>>
ARRGGGGHHHH, I'm so sorry to hear of your fish losses. And do not, repeat DO NOT ever encourage the use of
formalin/formaldehyde in any format's use in hobbyist's aquariums. These compounds are outright poisons (cross linkers of peptides), and are deadly dangerous to all forms of life. Yes, the medication did kill your fishes, blinding them, causing excess slime production... Don't know if I can state "where you went wrong", I cannot profess to state, but you reacted properly (with close observation, the water change, returning the carbon). Do return the
Formulite to your dealer and ask them to explain what they think happened. Hopefully you have not killed off the bulk of your beneficial microbes. If it were me, I'd test your water and be very careful about (slowly) returning the other livestock... Take Your
Time. Bob Fenner
Endogenous poisoning event
I have a 40 breeder reef for a year with 2 Anthias, 1 black cap, 2
clowns, 1 yellow tang.
Running wet/dry system with red sea skimmer; all health , I feed them at
night the next day when I got back home, took a look at my tank and my
tang was dead. So I did a water test water, everything looked all good
to the graph but I took it in to the pet shop and got it tested to, it
was good. I told them the story they didn't know what to say. Come
home feed my fish. The next day when I came back from work 1 of my Anthias and my blackcap flipped on me to, test water to it was still
good. So I did a water change feed the fish. Next day the other Anthias
died, water still good. I didn't do any cleaning around the tank. 2
weeks gone by 1 of my clown couldn't swim upright just side ways and
couldn't eat for so I took him out. One more thing my corals closed up
for a long time before opened up again for over 2 weeks, even though
their open its not the same as before, they don't expand as big as they
should be. Came you give me any answers to my problem?
Thank you,
Souk Her
>>
Hmm, sounds to me like an "inside job" of poisoning by one of your livestock... Like a sea cucumber... or other organism... maybe even just a reproduction event by some microbe... that led to slow/chronic poisoning... All will probably be fine by now (the poison is probably gone), but I would do a very large (half) water change before adding any more fishes... and maybe a unit of activated carbon in a bag in your filter/flow path.
Bob Fenner | |
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