Oh No!! Heating Disaster.... Feeling Hot! Hot! Hot! – 9/24/07
Bob~
<Nope ya got Mich, the night owl, coming to help ya out.>
Help!! Apparently my heater went kaput. Basically it looks as though it just would not shut off.
<Happens, but is never good!>
The tank was reading around 93!! Yikes!! As you know it is 55 gal with a Chocolate Chip star, a camel back shrimp, 5 turbo snails, and 3 blue green Chromis. I have removed the heater. Killed the lights and removed the top as well as pointed the power heads toward the surface and turned a fan on them. So far I have brought the temp down about 5 degrees. do you by any chance have any other suggestions?
<Ice, double bagged in Ziploc type bags, floating in the system will help bring down the temp. But you might want to remove the critters you can easily get a hold of and try cooling down a smaller volume of system water, until the temp of the main system can be brought down. You obviously will be able to cool a smaller volume more quickly.>
I have no idea how long it had been like that although definitely less than 24 hours as I check it nightly before I go to bed. The fish and the shrimp seem ok all things considered. Poor chip is at the top (who can blame him? He's probably looking for an escape route) I had planned on doing my weekly 10% change tomorrow. Should I hold off if the temp is still high so that I don't shock the poor things?
<I would do the water change.>
Also any idea how long it may take it to drop?
<Are ways to calculate, but I won't go totally nerdy on you... but will likely be back into a reasonable range by tomorrow.>
The room temperature is right at 72. If that helps.
What should I be watching for as far as stressed behaviours?
<Erratic behavior, quick breathing, signs of Ich...>
Thanks again for all your help. I tried searching for posts about bringing them temp down but couldn't find anything. Of course in my haste I may have overlooked something.
<Easily done when in a stress reaction mode.>
Thanks again,
<Welcome! Mich>
Melissa

Re: Oh No!! Heating Disaster.... Feeling Hot! Hot! Hot! – 9/24/07
I have gotten my temp down to 86.
<Good.>
My thinking is I should stop here and gradually lower over the next few days.
<If you don't have a heater in the tank it will cool to room temp within several of hours>
I was concerned about a rapid temp changed but got to thinking that maybe it is better than letting them cook for several days.
<I would bring it down slowly from here. You are in a safer, reasonable range now.>
I really am not sure. Now I am worried that I cooled it down too quickly.
<Perhaps, but I think it is best to get it out of this high temp range and I think the quicker the better at these very high temps.>
And yes I did overlook the temp pages. Apparently I was searching only for the chocolate chip star temps.
<Ooops>
Thanks again for everything you guys do. I have gotten my temp down to 86.
<Good.>
My thinking is I should stop here and gradually lower over the next few days.
<If you don't have a heater in the tank it will cool to room temp within several of hours>
I was concerned about a rapid temp changed but got to thinking that maybe it is better than letting them cook for several days.
<I would bring it down slowly from here. You are in a safer, reasonable range now.>
I really am not sure. Now I am worried that I cooled it down too quickly.
<Perhaps, but I think it is best to get it out of this high temp range and I think the quicker the better at these very high temps.>
And yes I did overlook the temp pages. Apparently I was searching only for the chocolate chip star temps.
<Ooops>
Thanks again for everything you guys do. Please advise me on how best to proceed.
<Slowly, gradually bring down the temp from here.>
Melissa
<Mich>

Light shocking a fish... long term effects?  9/23/07
I just recently purchased a gorgeous Flame Angel (*Centropyge loriculus)*(about 2.5 inches or so in length). I was battling an crypt infestation in my tank when I added, by complete accident, the bag water from a small serpent star that was housed with other fish from my LFS. I was drip acclimating it and when I picked up the specimen in his water to add him, I accidentally dropped the container and most of the water spilled into my tank! What a nightmare! The Flame Angel was quarantined for a month and added to the tank after. I did NOT quarantine the serpent star, which was just a boneheaded mistake since I've been quarantining everything.
Anyways, the Flame Angel is in a 30g quarantine with:
1 3" male Blue Throat Trigger (Xanthichthys auromarginatus)
2 1" Neon Gobies (Elacatinus oceanops)
4 varying sized False Percula clowns (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1 2" Ornate Wrasse (Halichoeres ornatissimus)
1 1.5" 6-line Wrasse *(Pseudocheilinus hexataenia)
<Better by far to isolate one new organism at a time...>
For reference, I used to have a Hippo tang that I traded to my LFS for their Blue Throat Trigger as well as my Flame Hawk because he was attacking my cleaner shrimp on occasion and actually killed one.
The Flame Angel looked pretty badly covered with crypt, so I fresh water dipped him in PH/Temp adjusted water with a healthy dose of Kordon's Methylene blue solution. Long story short, I left the tank unlit for the night after everyone was dipped.
The next morning, I saw that the fish were all swimming fairly well -- including the angel who was looking as good as new -- and I turned on the tank light. The minute I did, the Flame Angel turned onto it's side and began breathing REALLY rapidly. It scared the you know what out of me and I watched him for a few hours. It took a while, but he recovered seemingly fine and is now swimming and looking as good as new. I'm concerned, though, that what I did -- which clearly sent him into shock -- can really effect the lifespan of the fish.
<Good question... I don't believe so generally... if it doesn't kill it outright (which I have seen)>
I searched the site fairly extensively and almost all of the light shock articles focused primarily on corals and not fish.
<Yes>
On another interesting note, the Flame Angel and Blue Throat share a piece of PVC pipe at night time and swim together when the Blue Throat isn't in hiding. They seem to be pretty good buddies.
- Jonathan
<Ah, good... I would not be overly concerned here... I do hope the Crypt issue is solved though. Bob Fenner>

Re: Light shocking a fish... long term effects? – 09/23/07
Dear Bob,
<Jon>
Thanks a lot for the super quick reply. I think the crypt IS completely solved right now. At least in my quarantine tank. I have been using two tanks to house the fish and have moved them daily while I cleaned each tank.
<Good technique>
It's been about 2 weeks and I've yet to see any spots return. I did it without copper, also, so I'm a bit happy about that!
<Ah, yes>
In regards to the angel, it was quarantined for a month and added -- the problem was when I added the serpent star. The angel went into the tank after quarantine (all the other fish have been happy inhabitants for a few months now) and then almost immediately broke out with crypt. Sorry for wording the first email a bit strange, but the angel wasn't added JUST to the quarantine tank with the already sick fish (at least I think you misunderstood me there).
<I see>
But yeah, I really wonder about the light shock on the fish's lifespan. Hopefully nothing arises, but it was extremely scary watching the fish lay there for hours on end.
- Jonathan
<Such events in the wild... light-wise, must be extremely rare. Cheers, BobF>

Oil on top of water maybe from yellow head Jawfish?? Iodine article almost complete. 9/13/07
Bob and or crew.
<James>
Sorry for the delay on the iodine article. I have had a summer of tank issues as had my associate (mostly temperature fluctuations but also the following question). I have lost some frogspawn colonies and his corals have seen better days with a dramatic temperature shock when the heater burned out attempting to maintain tank temp on a cold night with a fan left on from the hot day.
<Yes>
Before going away I prepared some frozen food for my mother-in-law to feed the fish. I used the usual thaw and decant the pack liquid method and thought I did a reasonably good job of removing the excess pack juice and oils. Upon return there was a layer of oil on surface of the 24 gallon tank (the 75 gallon tank cleared up much easier). I first blamed the food as one brand of frozen matched the general consistency and odor/color. This was discarded. It has been two plus months and the problem continues to persist.
Despite skimming the oil off with a plastic container and letting the top layer drain into the cup the oil continues to return. I parted ways with the Condylactis anemone (to reduce tank load) and have increased the frequency of small water changes. Temperature fluctuations have been a big issue all summer with inconsistent air flow and 5 degree F temperature swings sometimes occurring despite my best efforts and abilities to keep the upstairs air conditioned or windows open when conditions allow. Could the oil on the top of the water be from the Jawfish (stress response perhaps)?
<Mmm, no... Could be from another endogenous source but much more likely from an exogenous... Simple cooking oil use, aerosol in closely contained indoor environments very often entail such coatings... Can be an important impediment to gas exchange... I'd keep wicking off with plain, white, non-odorized paper towels...>
Bob, please send me an email with some contact information to send the iodine article.
<Oh! Can send along here as an attachment or my personal addr.: fennerrobert@hotmail.com>
Writing it has been a struggle to keep it both an easy read yet stay true to the science behind the halogen family.
<Ahh!>
My associate has done the testing and is less than impressed with the test kits thus far.
<Heee!>
One of his former occupations was water testing in an environmental lab. Again, sorry for the delay.
Thank you.
James Zimmer
<No worries. Bob Fenner>

Lunare Wrasse Problem... actually env. dis.; Crowding... not reading  – 09/08/07
I am fairly new to the saltwater fish world. I started with a 55 gallon aquarium kit and did some research on how to get it started. I got a few cheap damsels to cycle the tank
<Mmm, not advised any longer by many... too likely to introduce disease for one>
and make sure my water quality would sustain fish. After a few weeks I got a Lionfish and later got a Yellow Tang.
<Need more room than this...>
Everything seemed to be going great for a few months. I decided I wanted one more fish so I got a small Lunare Wrasse.
<Ditto>
I did the usual and got his water temp to the tank temp and gave him a dip in a jug of saltwater extracted from my tank before putting him in with the others.
<Not the route I'd go either>
A few weeks later I was on a trip to Germany and had my mother take care of the fish while I was gone. Within the first 3 days of my trip all of my fish died except for the Wrasse. The first to go were the Damsels. Next, the Lionfish started to swim funny and had very cloudy eyes and shortly after died.
<...>
Finally, the Tang started to get the same symptoms and had a "rotting" top fin and died.
<Environmental...>
When I returned home I found the tank to have extensive algae growth and cloudy water I'm guessing due to a lack of maintenance, but the Wrasse was doing fine.
<Tougher>
I did a 50% water change and gave it a good cleaning. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Wrasse brought a disease with it.
<Mmm, not likely... unless you consider the extra bioload as a factor>
If so, could you shed some light on what it was so I could prevent it in the future. Also, do you think its safe to add new fish? Any info you could give would be appreciated, thanks.
Dustin
<Time to read Dustin... Please see WWM re each of the species you list... their "Systems", "Compatibility"... and what you intend to try next... Bob Fenner>

Giant Hawkfish problem... Actually induced env. prob.s   9/3/07
Hi,
<Christine>
I have looked up your site for a while now but now I am having trouble with my giant Hawkfish and I hope someone is able to help me. I have had him for about a year and in the last month I have switched from a sump system to a canister filter...
<Mmmm... I am not a fan by and large of using these types as sole...>
it is a Rena xp4 and the tank size is 100 gallons. He shares it with an eel (Fimbriated) and since i switched the sump out i noticed his breathing got a lot heavier.
<Oh yes... very likely the agitation of air/water in the sump brought oxygen into high saturation>
I thought it was the heat so I got a chiller, still the breathing was heavy although the temperature is perfect so I got some aeration going in the tank. For about a few weeks he was fine but as of the last few days I noticed his breathing has gotten very heavy, lethargic and occasionally does this scary coughing thing where he looks like he might explode.
<Very dangerous... Very likely these two species/specimens also need more room than this 100... I have seen Fimbriated morays that required hundreds of gallons for themselves>
I did a full battery of tests and found the nitrate and nitrite to be both high..
<How high is high, sigh...>
I did a 20% water change added some AmQuel + and so far the readings have been perfect.
<Warning! This Kordon product (the PVP ingredient) will give false negatives with some test kits...>
Everything is at zero. Although the ph is a bit low at 7.8.
<Too low...>
Anyway, that's all the info i think that might help... i will be adding another biological filtration unit to the tank with a few days in hopes that it needs more (as he and his brother are messy eaters) but i just don't know what might be wrong.
<The loss of the sump... not enough volume... the too-driven-nitrification effects of canister filtration, poor water quality... You've stated it all>
I will also get proper ph to up the ph level to 8.2.
<Not a good idea, means... need more naturally available carbonate, bicarbonate... more hard, soluble substrate/s...>
The eel seems to breathe heavy at times but it seems the Hawkfish is the one who is losing his color, breathing heavy at times and then almost not at other times and occasionally coughs. Sorry if this is long but i don't know what it might be.. any thoughts? Parasite maybe and if so how does one tell? I don't want to add anything to the water that might make them worse... thanks so much for any feedback! Oh and also the salinity is perfect as well as the temperature so those are not possible problems. thanks!!! :)
Christine
<... Please... get a larger system, bring back the sump, consider using the canister simply as a contactor... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanfiltuse.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Sea Apple... dying, removal, potential  8/7/07
Help Please,
<Will try>
I have a 160 gallon salt water tank. The tank is 34" tall. I have a sea apple that apparently is starting to die.
<Yeeikes>
I've had it for 9-10 months It usually stayed out in front, moving around normally, but has now moved to a cave and has gotten smaller. I can see pieces of it starting to deteriorate, however it's color is still pretty good. I cannot reach it to remove it without moving a 100 lbs of rock and upsetting the rest of the tank. Is there anything I could/should be doing during the dying process?
<Yes... carefully remove it... and the water around it>
All other corals and fish are exceptionally well at this time and I want to really avoid a major crash.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
<Tongs, a small net and definitely a good large-diameter siphon... and the use of a good volume of high quality carbon. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cukecompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Rich Sarno

Mystery To Me.....Not to me! Drop in Salinity = Problems – 07/30/07
Crew,
<Hi Ed, Mich here.>
Thanks again for all the great advice contained on your site.
<Glad you like!>
I am writing about my 125g reef. Details as follows:
125g; 2 sumps, each approx. 20 g
Tunze filtration, skimming and nitrate reactors
calcium reactor (HRC)
turnover provided by Tunze stream and a larger in-line pump pushing penductors
ammonia: 0
nitrate: 0
nitrate: 30 <A bit high.>
temp 79-81
salinity: 1.025
pH: 8.1 (night); 8.25 (day)
animals:
Sailfin tang; 4 small damsels; Sixline wrasse; pink spotted goby; flame hawk; Bluehead wrasse; assorted softies (bubble, Sinularia; open brains, many Zoas, some GSP, yellow polyps)
a couple of starfish and a coral banded shrimp
Recently, the salinity dropped to 1.014 due to a plumbing issue.
<Yikes!
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/spg_salinity.htm >
I brought it back up to 1.025 over a 3-day period. My issue is the corals all have deteriorated significantly and the largest star is out in the open (rare) and relatively slow moving (comparatively speaking). I also have a black Cuke that has gone from huge and swift to skinny and lethargic (but not deceased).
<Echinoderms are quite sensitive to changes in salinity as are many corals. This significant drop in salinity changed the shift in osmotic pressure in these invertebrates, essentially dehydrating them, which just as in humans, can be deadly.>
Could the salinity drop have created such a disaster...Sinularia drooping, 'Shrooms smaller, bubble receded, brains shriveled...
<Oh yes indeed!>
all fish are active as if nothing has happened.
<Fish are much more tolerant to changes in salinity.>
The tank is 3+ ears old <Hee! Does it hear well?> and has a sand bed of combined cc and oolitic sand, about 2-4" in depth.....there is about 150# of LR involved in the total system. I dose a bit of Lugol’s monthly and magnesium quarterly.
<And hopefully test these levels as well.>
I use Red Sea salt, mixed in RO/DI water, augmented with Osmo-prep marine. Recently a Pinktail trigger died while I was on vacation, but there was no nitrate spike so I assume the sand critters (stars, crabs, etc. just had a feast).
<Yikes!>
Any suggestions or verification that my failure to maintain proper salinity might have caused this mess would be appreciated as would a prognosis.
<Yes the salinity drop it likely the cause of your problems here. As for prognosis... only time will tell.
Grunfeld from Michigan Reefers (Ed)
<Poconofishy from NJ Reefers, NCPARS and Mountain-Valley Reefers (Mich)>

Tank over heated, SW   7/31/07
Hi there
This is the second time I have emailed you guys and I would like to let you know that you were a big help and your advice saved my maroon clown.
<Mmm, perhaps helped you save this fish>
Here is my problem the air conditioning in the room with my 140 gallon reef tank broke an I was away the entire day and did not know until I got out of work (LFS) the damage was done by then I lost a frogspawn. I am worried about my two soft corals a colt coral and a Kenya tree coral the look wilted like when they are touched .I was wondering if the are just stressed out and in a couple of days will open
<Let's hope they do recover... I'd leave the lights off during the hot weather time (change the cycle to nighttime) till the temp. is milder. Bob Fenner>

Electric Volts... trouble  – 07/24/07
Hi I have a 130 gallon 2-California round stingray tank.
<Chilled...?>
Fish and live sand only... soon to be in their new 300 gallon. Well yesterday the baby ray 3" stopped eating and has been lethargic. All day today I've been debating weather or not to quarantine him.
<?>
I have 1 other California round ray in the tank she is fine. Eating and acting ray-like. So all water levels are fine
<?>
no scratches, the rays are 1 year old and have had nothing new added to the tank, except a chiller 2 weeks ago.
<A, good>
I feed grass shrimp on occasion (after being quarantined for 1 week and treated for parasites) and give the rays vitamins from Mazuri.
<Very good>
So all day I was trying to figure out what could be wrong. Well at the end of the day I did a water change and I had a cut on my finger and I felt electric shocks on my finger (from the chiller) is this the reason my ray is sick?
<Definitely could be>
And what should I do?
<Two things for sure. Install a GFCI, AND find/fix the source of stray current... Here likely an ungrounded outlet... can be easily checked... See WWM re GFIs>
Or is it because of the shrimp? Is there any good medications for this?
<...? For what...?>
The larger ray is fine.
Please help!! I love the little guy!!
Thanks for your time
<Do you understand the above? You might be badly shocked/electrocuted as well... Bob Fenner>
Michelle

Blenny Death Question – 07/18/07
Hello,
We have an office tank 90 gallon. Although I know a lot about the tank we have a professional come in and do water changes etc. ...
Last week we could not find the Blenny fish and never did and then 3 days later the flame angel died. We take the fish out as soon as we see them dead but were unable to find the Blenny. All the water chemistry and temperature were in normal range but all the fish began having problems, ick and dying off. My question is could the Blenny have spiked the tank upon dying? Also we had an explosion of tiny white sand stars (I don't know what they are exactly) come out and they were everywhere after we noticed the flame dead. We had 4 or 5 small fish die and there are 3 left to go. (Probably tonight) They are not doing good.
We cant figure it out and wondered if it could be the Blenny who polluted the tank.
Thanks for your help!
Nancy
<Greetings Nancy, Jim here.
A 90 gallon tank is more than large enough to withstand the death of your blenny without spiking even a little bit. Something else is at work here, and has caused not only the death of your blenny, but the deaths that followed. Ick (C. irritans) has been introduced into your system somehow, and at this point, without more information, I'm leaning towards this pathogen as the cause of your problems - not the result of some other problem.
Have you added any fish recently? Are you in the habit of quarantining new arrivals? Give me a bit of information as to how you have stocked this tank.
Cheers
Jim >

Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? – 06/11/07
Good evening,
<AM for me now, here...>
I have a question for ya. I have noticed recently, and perhaps it was always the case, that some of my fish have a little reddening where the body narrows to the tail.
<Good observation... generally indicative of "something too stressful"... the anomalous "water quality", perhaps aggression...>
My Foxface, Yellow Tang, and my two Bannerfish have it. My Harlequin Tusk fish doesn't.
<Perhaps the aggressor...>
You wouldn't really notice it at first glance. It is ONLY at the narrow between the body and the tail. I'm thinking maybe it's just blood vessels going to the tail or the muscles for the tail.
<You are correct>
It just so happens that all these fish happen to be yellow thus a lighter color so perhaps the blood vessels and muscle are more visible?
<Perhaps>
Or, are you thinking this maybe the start of some disease in all my fish?
<Mmm, how to state this (this time)? All systems and individuals are in a constant state of flux twixt disease/healthy states...>
All fish are active eaters, appear very healthy otherwise, are receiving all different types of foods (squid, muscles, krill, flake, shrimp, clam, brine shrimp, green or red dried seaweed on a clip). All fish were quarantined for 2-4 weeks. The reddening is not splotchy or in red spots such as a lot of the diseases on your website. It's more like a nice bright yellow body that at the narrow turns darker and then a nice bright yellow tail.
Hope you know what I am referring to and I'm hoping my thoughts are correct ~ blood vessels or muscle???
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
<Well... you might look into ways/means to improve water quality (spiffing up your skimmer, more water changes), nutrition (supplementing foods with vitamins, HUFAs), alleviating aggression (observe your livestock... see which ones, areas are avoided), perhaps by moving the Choerodon... maybe by placing all in a larger setting... Your careful viewing of the petecchia here is to be lauded... IS indicative of "too much stress" from something/s... And yes, can lead to, exacerbate pathogenic disease. Bob Fenner>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? NO3?  – 06/11/07
It is a 200g system so it is quite roomy. The only aggressor within the tank would be the Yellow Tang who has never acted aggressive towards the Foxface. The Harlequin Tusk fish and Bannerfish are always submissive to the more dominant Tang.
<I see>
I do have a Tunze Skimmer and am collecting enough skimmate that I empty it every second day. I was likely overfeeding at the introduction of my last 3 fish over the past month or so and have noticed my pristine water conditions showing signs of Nitrate at about 40ppm.
<Ahh! This alone could be 'it'... This is about twice as high as I would allow...>
I realize this is too high and have cut back on the feedings. Additionally I have been doing 25% water changes since the tank started in December.
<Mmm, there are other means...>
Is there an additive that I can use to neutralize the Nitrate? I have been adding "PRIME" by Seachem (I think) which says neutralizes phosphates, nitrates, and chlorine etc.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
Scroll down to the appropriately yellow tray>
I realize the cycle goes from a poisonous Ammonia to a harmful Nitrite which is turned into a 'harmless?' nitrate.
<Mmmm>
Before you jump in here, many documents I've read refer to Nitrates as harmless but I realize that if I have this high of a reading in Nitrate that my tank is obviously breaking down a helluva lot of Ammonia/Nitrite? Correct?
<To some degree this is so... Am wary of simple answers to complex situations... There is actually quite a bit else going on... The long and short of an operative understanding of this universe is that the forward reactions of nitrification can (and are here) result in an over-accumulation of this principal product... and it is in varying degrees, ways toxic...>
I'm already doing some aggressive skimming, water changes (although I'll likely throw in an extra 25% this month), will cut back on feedings... anything else I should be doing to take care of this?
<Please read re...>
If I recall correctly, the Foxface very well might have had the reddening at the tailfin before... so perhaps this is in fact just blood vessels or muscles going to the tail?
<These are indeed part of the circulatory systems of these fishes... "inflamed" if you will>
Or are you suggesting I should see nice bright yellow from the body right into the tail area?
Dave
<You should. BobF>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles?, likely NO3 or related  – 06/11/07
Thanks again.
<Welcome>
I have about a 3.5-4" fine sandbed in the main display with 200lbs Tonga Liverock. The sump has about 30lbs Tonga live rock, glass bottom, a sponge for filtering out some solids... then I have a glass chamber that holds my Tunze Skimmer as well as the side drain to my external pump.
<Sounds good>
I have never had a Nitrate issue in 5yrs with any tanks... and only noticed the Nitrates jump from undetectable to 40ppm with the addition of the 2 Bannerfish and Tusk fish and the increase in feedings. I'm hoping this is a short term issue because of my overfeedings for the past 4 weeks.
<Mmm, "many roads"... the best long-term, self-sustaining... a remoted added sump/refugium... with complementary DSB, macroalgae, alternating light cycle... As posted on...>
I really don't want to add more sand to my main display... I guess I do have a plethora of Chaeto from my 90gallon tanks sump that I could use in my 200gallon. Would Chaeto be ok in a glass bottom with a powerhead for flow?
<Likely so>
Come to think of it, water travels through my sump at a decent pace that a powerhead may not be needed.
<Likely not. Worth trying. BobF>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? – 06/11/07
Hey, it's Dave again here... So I was reading the below mentioned article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
<Am familiar...>
I used another test kit on my Nitrate issue and it looks like my Nitrates may be 20 - 40 PPM, while the Salifert kit would suggest 25 - 50 ppm ~ somewhere in between in both cases. So, let's say between the two my Nitrates are at 33PPM? Based on the article mentioned above,  "Most fish groups are remarkably tolerant of "practical"
levels/concentrations of nitrates (30-40 ppm. let's say). A few tens of parts per million in their water, changes in same over days time is not life-threatening or stressful"
<Generally this is so... metabolite accumulation only plays a variable role...>
Yes, I want to reduce my Nitrates. but I am thinking that perhaps the slightly noticeable reddening by the tailfin area isn't Nitrate related?
I dunno. the fish are very bright in color and behave quite normally.
<Likely related... but the question indeed is "to what extent?">
Just a quick summary in case someone other than Bob gets this... or if you don't want to re-read the attached email string:
200gallon tank
50gallon sump
Aggressive protein skimming
4.5" fine sandbed
Fish only with 200# liverock and another 30# in the sump.
All of my fish that happen to have yellow tails note a little bit of reddening where the body narrows to the tailfin. This is only noticeable if you're standing within about 5ft of the tank. I wasn't sure if it was simply their muscles/blood vessels given yellow being a lighter color or if it was something else?
<High TBC... many other possibilities... Cures are all about the same though... improve the environment... Adding UV, an Ozonizer... raising RedOx in some ways... will do "it" here>
Anyhow, I recognize I have to cut way back on my feeding. My stock includes a 18" Snowflake Moray eel who is fed (clam, scallops, krill, squid, tiger prawn) until he refuses food about every two to three days, so about 2 to 3 times a week only.
<Twice is sufficient for an Echidna of this size>
I also alternate between these foods so as he gets a variety. Usually his feeding equates to 5/6 a tiger prawn or 3/4 a 2" diameter scallop. Should I continue to feed him as I am? Or should I be cutting back even if he is seemingly wanting more during a scheduled feeding?
<I'd cut back>
My other fish: 2x Bannerfish, Harlequin Tuskfish, Royal Dottyback, Yellow Tang, Foxface eat a bit of flake, or brine shrimp, small pieces of scallop, small pieces of tiger prawn, krill, clam, squid, etc.
Flake is fed lightly and I watch that it is all gone before I add a bit more. If I am feeding off frozen cubes, it's usually about a cube and a half for this tank and I use the other half a cube for my 90gallon tank.
The frozen meats would be fed equivalent to about 1/6 of a standard size tiger prawn and then cut up into smaller pieces so all the fish have an opportunity to feed. There never seems to be any gone to waste.
Additionally, I also do a 2"x3" square of dried seaweed on a clip almost daily.
I guess I'm wondering if I am feeding them foods too rich in protein that perhaps their waste a little more toxic than normal?
<Mmm, maybe>
I originally overfed to ease tensions between the Tang and three newcomers (Bannerfish and Tusk). I think I read somewhere that pellets are preferred and less messy vs. flake... but my experience with pellets is scattered pellets that the fish don't pickup off the bottom... or maybe I need bigger pellets?
<Try the Spectrum brand... amazingly palatable... not quite so fast to sink...>
Of note, in order to reduce my nitrates, I split my massive Chaeto ball from my 90gallon setup. and put it in my glass bottom sump and used an extra 18W PC light overtop of it.
<Good>
Thoughts? I feel like I obviously have to reduce my nitrates. but perhaps this slightly reddening by the tailfin is nothing at all?
Dave
<Read on my friend, read on. BobF>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles?   6/13/07
The continuing saga...
So I am perplexed. If I had ever had an issue learning the aquarium hobby with my 90 gallon over the past 5yrs, something would jump out at me. A water test perhaps, and ridiculous amounts of ammonia... or using some sort of additive incorrectly in my quarantine tank that through my pH way outtalk whack...
I've been writing about slight reddening near the tail fin only of my yellow fish:
<"Just" easier to see...>
Foxface, Yellow Tang, and even a bit on my Bannerfish.
Obviously my Royal Dottyback also has yellow on the back half of his body including his tail... no reddening. I've had the Dottyback for almost 4yrs... and this afternoon... DEAD laying on the bottom of my 200g tank. I've done about 4 water tests in the past week with only signs of 30 - 40PPM in Nitrates.
<Mmm, likely not much/very related...>
Everything else has remained in check.
I've tested Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Phosphate, salinity... There is no visible signs of body damage, loss of color, anything. The Dottyback has been acting fine even last night when I was feeding. I'm hoping this is old age
<Likely so>
and coincidentally in a time where I am curious about a bit of reddening fins and a Nitrate count that is viewed ALMOST as acceptable (but obviously not ideal). Hmm, I won't even ask you to guess what happened... no torn fins... eyes aren't glazed over or anything... In fact, earlier today I put up a feeder clip at around 2pm and I am fairly certain I saw the Dottyback swimming around as I always count and observe my fish. I noticed the dead Dottyback at 7pm.
That aside, my Chaeto has been in my sump for the 200gallon tank now for almost 40hrs and my Nitrate reading has definitely moved down. I did two separate tests both indicating a 20'ish and a 25PPM. This is down from what I estimated at about 33-40PPM.
<Ah, good>
So, now that I am all freaked out about my tank... I inspected each and every fish. My Snowflake eel seems to be fine as does my Yellow Tang.
In fact I don't think I even see reddening of his tail although it was hardly noticeable to begin with. Foxface appears to be fine with same issue of darkening/reddening by his tail. Maybe it's more brown than red... I dunno how to describe it. My Harlequin Tusk fish is peaking my curiosity now. He spends most of his time at one end of the tank swimming circles around my powerhead... under it then over it at the top of the tank. Of course when foods in the water he's right in there.
<Good sign>
During the night he swims at the front of the tank and then hides in the rock.
<Natural behavior>
It almost appears to be obsessive behaviour him and that powerhead. Strike you as odd?
<Mmm, no>
I also counted his breathing rate to be about maybe 80 per minute. I heard that 60-90 is normal?
<About this>
I have this feeling that I am going to find another casualty or two over the next few days... week, and I don't know why. I just did a 25% water change 3 days ago.
I guess we'll see...
Dave
<Ah, yes. RMF>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? – 06/14/07
Bob, it appears that I am not being paranoid...
My Tusk fish that I commented on that was running loops around my powerhead and whom I figured was breathing a little heavy... I found him on the overflow this morning. I have egg crating over it and luckily my pump has such a high flow rate that it keeps my water level about a good inch over the overflow height so he was getting water. He was breathing rather quickly about 130 gill beats per minute. I scooped him up in a net and he immediately started flipping around... then dumped him in my quarantine tank. I wasn't even thinking... The quarantine tank has pristine water readings from my 90gallon tank that's been a smooth operation for years... however the temperature is 22oc and the temp of the 200gallon tank is 26.5oc. The Tusk fish was swimming around and I recognized my mistake within seconds. I quickly half-a$$ put up some egg-crating in my 200g sump to keep him away from the outlet to my high-powered pump and I put him back in the 200g tank water in the sump where my Chaeto is. In the meantime I put a heater in my quarantine tank and when I am home from work tonight will do another quarantine tank water change with my 90gallon... and ensure the temperature is appropriate.
My wife came downstairs about this time and said "what's wrong with your Bannerfish'". I looked... they are covered face to tail in white spots that seem to me to be consistent with ICK.
<Ahh!>
As well they were flashing... and flashing up against my Foxface. Of note, my Nitrates formerly at 40PPM have dropped to around 20PPM over last 3 days with the intro of the Chaeto into the sump.
I'm curious now, since I wrote the other day about my mysterious Dottyback death. Does any of this sound consistent with perhaps Velvet diseases in my tank?
<More likely Crypt... and highly probable linked with env. stress... the NO3 and whatever other roots here>
A mysterious death of my Dottyback, my Bannerfish flashing, my Tusk fish acting a little peculiar and finding him on the overflow.... ??? This all within 6 days.
<Ah, yes>
I plan to capture my Bannerfish and move the two of them along with the Tusk fish from my sump into my 20g quarantine tank once I do a water change and ensure appropriate temperature tonight. What should my steps be? I have cured ICK successfully without casualties, 3x before in the earlier stages of my 90 gallon tank by keeping the temperature at around 28/29oc and the salinity around 1.020 and using a product called "KICK ITCH".
<... Worthless>
Should my steps be to follow this process with the 3 fish? Or, is there another medication or medications you'd recommend? Should I assume the worst and use something more suitable for a Velvet disease such as something with copper?
My Yellow Tang and Foxface at this point appear to be fine other than the marking by the tail that I pointed out to you yesterday.
Last question... would u figure my 18" Snowflake Eel would not be affected by ITCH or even a velvet disease? Should I just focus on getting my Nitrates in check with my 200g tank for my Foxface, Tang, Eel... or should I be looking at treating the three of them? I'm thinking 2 Bannerfish and Tusk fish in my 20gallon tank are pushing the capacity of that tank as it is.
HELP ME OBI-FENNER, YOU'RE MY ONLY HOPE *in my best Princess Lea voice*... ~ have you heard that one before?
It's days like this that I hate being at work... can't observe them... can't do anything from here *sigh*. Hopefully I can hear back before heading to the store in 6.5 hours...
Dave
<Have just skipped down... You need to READ... and soon. Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
RMF>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? – 06/14/07
Hi Bob, thanks for the quick response.
<Welcome>
I have been reading... Your article says that transferring all fish out of main display and treating them for a month leaving the display fallow. I only have a 20gallon quarantine tank which isn't sufficient for my Snowflake solo, let alone my other inhabitants.
<... need to buy...>
Your FAQ's suggest Tuskfish's to be incredibly hardy and quite capable of ridding the ITCH on their own... yet I realize that the ITCH can leave the fish and stay waterborne.
<Itch?...>
Given my limited quarantine space... am I better to further lower my specific gravity GRADUALLY in the main display down closer to 1.020 or slightly lower... and let the temperature rise from about 27oc to 29oc over a day or so?
<no...>
In the meantime following your ITCH procedure on just the Bannerfish covered in it? I can't see any signs on my Tang or Foxface... hard to tell on the Tusk.
If only I had two 200g tanks... *sigh*
<Keep reading. B>

Re: Yellow Fish and reddening by the tail? Blood Vessels? Muscles? Refusing to read thoroughly while animals languish...  – 06/15/07
The short short short short version... Nitrates are well under control now...
To simplify, it looks like I am solely dealing with Crypt. Fish store recommended Copramine (sp?)
<...>
and I see that a few people have posted on your site about it. I'm thinking I will get another 20gallon tank. Use one 20gallon with the 2 Bannerfish and the Tusk as they are the newer fish and are most peaceful. The other 20gallon for the Foxface and Yellow Tang ~ since the Tang was just recently involved in nipping Bannerfish fins. Bannerfish are already safe in the quarantine tank.
I'd still have nothing for the Moray Eel. If I use salinity and temperature adjustments on the eel and the main display with all other fish in quarantine using proper administration of Copramine, thus leaving the main display with Eel otherwise fallow for 5 weeks. Would this be your recommendation?
<...>
Was also curious, with medications obviously a water change would reduce the presence of the medication. Do I top up the dose after every water change and monitor with test kit? Seems like a likely thought... however the reason I am asking is that the Seachem Cupramine bottle states the volume of the Cupramine to add (as an example 1oz for every 50 gallons or something to that effect ~ not a real measurement, just an example) and mentions nothing about the ideal presence of Copper levels in water. Your website indicates a range of Copper level (0.15-0.25 ppm over 7-10 days plus) to treat. The Cupramine bottle would state a little bit day one, a little bit day 3, etc... so I am hoping that this would put my water parameters in the range you described in your article and I will ensure they stay within the range with the copper kit I will buy. Which brings me back to my question about water changes. I do the water change but test morning and evening to ensure that I am b
ringing the copper up to where it was before doing the water change, correct?
<...>
Please please tell me I am on the right track. Often you tell me to keep reading and believe me boss is going to fire me for sneaking onto your website multiple times daily... haha... but there is SOO MUCH info on your site and in different spots throughout.
<... learn to/use the search tool, indices...>
Have a great weekend!
One last question... my Yellow Tang that has no visible Crypt signs as of yet. Should I follow through with the Cupramine treatment anyhow... or do you think I might be able to move him to my 90gallon tank (2 clowns, yellow watchman goby, blue damsel), plenty of green algae. Assuming the Crypt hasn't gotten to my Tang, he would be safe there, yes? Or would you say if my big tank has crypt... visible or not, my Tang is going to have Crypt?
It's a little frustrating because all of the fish, excepting the Moray Eel (who was the first fish in) did have a 3 to 4 week quarantine with no visible signs of health problems. The last fish introduced was about 6 weeks ago so it's disappointing to go through the quarantine procedure with nothing happening until they are in the main display. Maybe I need to do 6 week quarantines from now on?
Dave
<My friend... READ while you're at home... and soon... Re Cupramine, testing for chelated formats of copper... There is too much to relate that needs to be made known... via email... And your livestock will soon be dead if you don't formulate a workable plan and execute it. B>

Re: Angel Update... env. dis. file, SW    – 06/19/07
Bob,
<Tom>
Not really a question, just a comment and follow up. As you recall I have the Passer, baby shark & puffer in an 80 gallon.
<Yes...>
Thanks a ton, after the Missus read your responses we are now getting a 200 gal tank,
<Bonus!>
I can't pick it up for a month so the fish will have to get by in the 80 gal for now for another 30 days or so. Anyway, after testing the water, the only bad condition was high nitrates, over 40 ppm.
<Keep in mind Tom... this is "the only bad condition" that you can test, are aware of... there are a myriad of other possibilities, things going on that are stressful due to this crowded situation>
Thanks to this site, I immediately cleaned the pads in the Fluval FX5 and have since had nitrates under 10 ppm.
<Ah, good>
I wanted to say that this is the ONLY site to where it has been mentioned that mechanical filter pads are nitrate producers.
<This strikes me as unusual. Let's modify your stmt. to say that WWM is the only site you saw where this is mentioned>
For readers of this email, I personally wanted to say that the info you find here is amazing, it takes a year to read it all but it is well worth the time. No source of info, be it suppliers, LFS, other websites, has ever suggested that cause of nitrates, and I can tell you it immediately corrected my problem. Anyway, all fish are doing very well. I added that larger protein skimmer a week ago, and also left the Skilter on.
<Very good>
Oddly enough, they don't produce much waste. I've adjusted the air flow several times to optimum settings per the manufacturers, still no real waste production.
<Due to your careful feeding, the established state of this system, there may not be much removable thus>
I'm doing weekly to 10 day partials, possibly is there too few dissolved organics in the water?
<Bingo>
The big skimmer is a 180gal capacity venturi hang on skimmer, obviously you know what the Skilter is. The Skilter has produced waste in the past. Anyway, again, just for the readers, this is a wealth of knowledge, I spend a lot of my free time reading, and to the crew, many thanks!
Thomas
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Tank Crashed! Heater Went Out! Help! – 5/30/07
Hello,
<Hello Helene, Brenda here>
I am so sorry to bother you with what might be somewhere on your site but I have been looking for hours and still am not finding what I need.
I have a 75 gallon tank which you all helped me with originally. It has been wonderful, with a few mishaps along the way but doing quite well. I have few fish, just a clown and yellow tail and some corals. Also, a beautiful brain, some polyps, assorted soft corals, a brittle star, lots of crabs, snails, live rock and sand. For the past year we have had a lot of mushrooms growing and we were starting to realize that they were taking over. We also have a Condylactis anemone. He has been with us since the tank's live rock came 8 years ago. We have a nice 50 gallon sump, good protein skimmer, occasionally run a little charcoal in a backpack filter just to make the water sparkle.
The heater broke 2 nights ago. I am not sure if something from that affected the tank or if it was coincidental with the death of the anemone.
<When heaters start to fail they can cause the temperature to rise pretty high, or drop pretty low, or both. This can cause the death of an anemone. The death of an anemone can wipe out an entire tank over night. You have likely experienced the domino effect here!>
The result has been a massive die off of all the animals with the exception of the fish. Very sad.
<Yes, very sad! I’m so sorry!>
We are not sure if they got electrocuted or something in the heater affected them. Just not sure. As soon as we noticed what was happening we began a water change. We always have premixed water waiting. But we only had 7 gallons. We knew we needed more changes. We have done about 65 gallons of water change in 2 days. Our water is not chlorinated but we were not able to aerate the water for the next changes....we did it for a few hours and then did the change. The ammonia was up but now ammonia is at 0.
<Keep checking ammonia daily until you are out of the woods. What are the rest of your water parameters?>
The tank is just grey and lifeless with the fish swimming around and doing alright. I think all the corals are dead but some of them just look closed up and I hate to take them out if there is a chance that they are alive. There is a little green left on the brain but I am not too hopeful. The mushrooms are all closed and just hanging around. What is the proper action to take now? Should I order some new rock?
<I wouldn’t start replacing your live rock. You can buy a few pieces and use it to re-seed your tank if you wish. Use only fully cured rock. Did you also loose your snails and crabs?>
Should I wait and see? Should I keep up water changes?
<Keep cleaning filters, changing filter pads, emptying skimmer. I would run as much carbon as you can. I suggest running it in something like a PhosBan reactor, similar to this (without the PhosBan media): http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/207695/product.web Perfect water conditions is going to be the key for any recovery.>
Should I try to dislodge the mushrooms and get them out?
<They may recover. I’ve seen some pretty sad looking mushrooms bounce back. Send us a picture if you can.>
We never found the anemone.
<It has likely dissolved.>
We found the star and got him out.
<Good!>
I am just not sure what to do.......
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Helene
<Hope this helps Helene! Brenda>

Re: Tank Crashed! Heater Went Out! Help! – 5/30/07
Hi Brenda,
Thank you for your fast reply.
<You’re welcome!>
I have said many times that having an aquarium would be impossible without you guys....Just having you to listen is a help.....
<Happy to assist!>
Yes, I think that the snails and crabs died too. I am not seeing much alive except a little florescent on the brain and one of the other corals....so long ago gotten that I forget the name. It is closed but not looking bad. He may be dead but just looks better than the other kinds. I will try for a picture if it helps you guys with others in sorry shape like we are. Again, thank you so much for being there. I will tell you the other water parameters when I check them in the morning if they are weird. They probably will be.
<Lets hope not! I’ll keep my fingers crossed! Brenda>
Helene

Unknown cause of death... Env.  4/18/07
Have a question for you. I have a 60gal FOWLR - with all levels fine except Nitrate, which was about 15. (did a 40% water change) anyways, in the tank I have a small snowflake moray, small volitans, medium silver Foxface.
<There is not enough room for the listed fishes here... at any size>
My medium coral beauty dies unexpectedly. He was eating and swimming, showing no signs of distress. In the morning he was lying dead. Two days later a small Eiblii angel was dead.
<These two cannot "fit" here... Not enough room psychologically & metabolically... perhaps got jabbed by the Lion or Siganid...>
Same thing, no signs. I understand my tank is too small for all these fish,
<...>
I'm getting a 135 gal shortly. All the fish are of small size. I do water changes weekly, and have a RO unit. I filter with a Eheim pro III, and have a sump with a coral life needle wheel skimmer 125gal. Plus I have a UV sterilizer in the tank. How and what product do you recommend to treat my tank?
<?... the bigger tank>
By the way, all fish were QTed for at least 2 weeks before adding to the tank.
<I'd step up the plans for the larger system... Bob Fenner>

My fish are always scared and Blue Tang always stressed, no useful data 4/17/04
Hello WWM,
Today after I got home I walked past my tank and all the fish started to hide and my blue tang was stressed. I have had the tank for 6 months and is doing good (Until now?). When under
<?>
the blue tangs eye turns brown does it mean they are stressed? It is a 6x2x2 foot tank and I have a lot of soft corals. Do you seem to know why this is happening?
<Likely a combination of factors... the soft corals are producing chemicals that are malaffecting your fishes... Perhaps they're in a place physically where folks don't walk by much...>
I have a convict tang as well but the blue tang and him always swim and eat off the feeding clip together. The two of them have been together for about 2 months and I do not think it is the problem why the blue tang is stressed.
My other fish are:
3 Chromis
Valentini Puffer
Mandarin Dragonet
Lawnmower Blenny
1 Ocellaris Clownfish
Thank you
<Mmm, you don't list water quality tests, but I doubt if "this" is something you can test for... I would avail yourself first of more knowledge... then to considerations of improving water quality (extraction of the aforementioned chemicals... ozone, better skimming, chemical filtrants) AND biological means of countering... Refugium of size, DSB, macroalgae culture... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above, and http://wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm
and the... Bob Fenner>

Re: My fish are always scared and Blue Tang always stressed  4/18/07
Hi Bob,
The water quality is perfect.
Calcium 400
Nitrate 15
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
SG 1.025
The protein skimmer makes an 3/4 of an inch of skimmate everyday. The sandbed is 3 inches deep and my mandarin dragonet has been happy for around 5 months.
Thanks, Maison
<Mmm... well, there are many other biochemicals that might be at play... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FrightChemsFWArt.htm
and the linked files above... Or just the familiarity/conditioned response alluded to previously. Bob Fenner>

Reef tank with BTA and Sea Star without Live Rock – 4/7/07
Hi,
<Hello, Brenda here>  
I tried to find my answer on your FAQs and such, but could not find what I was looking for.  I started a 55 Gallon reef tank with live sand (no live rock).
<No live rock?  This doesn’t sound like a reef tank.>
My water tests have all come out as 0’s. I have two tank-raised ocellaris clowns, two small damsel fish, a small orange Linckia, and have added two small bubble tip anemones. This is my first effort with anemones so I don’t know what exactly they do when first introduced to the tank. Neither is attaching to anything. They are both sitting on the bottom of the tank.
<Please research before you buy an animal.>
One seems to be repeatedly puffing up, and then gets smaller. The other has gotten very small and looks to be spewing some slime out of its mouth. Is this what they are supposed to do or are they dying?
<Could be expelling waste, but my guess is it is dying.  You have not provided an adequate environment for them.>
If they are OK, will they attach to something in the tank on their own or do they need a little guidance?
<Your tank needs live rock, for many reasons.  I’m not sure what you are expecting it to attach to.>
I have a question about my little sea star as well. It seems to ball up on itself quite a bit. It almost looks like it is inside out. Is this supposed to happen?
<Again, it sounds like you have not provided it with an adequate environment.>  
I’m new to all this. Please help.
<This sounds like a new tank also.  These animals need an established environment, which includes live rock.  It sounds like you are rushing into things.  Please search WWM for the benefits of live rock, and the care requirements for your anemone and sea star.  I suggest you return your anemones and sea star to the LFS until you can provide an established environment for these animals.>
Thanks,
Mistie
<You’re welcome!  Brenda>

Dead Fish, Not Enough Information 4/4/07
Please help. <Will try.>  All my fish are dying. Currently I have a yellow tang, a leopard puffer <many puffers by this name, most are brackish, not necessarily salt water fish> and some damsels. Last night my clown trigger died after only having him a week. All my fish seem to last only that long (except the puffer) it’s a 55 gallon and the ph is fine. <What about everything else, you have a ton of life in that tank, what are your other water parameters?> The clown look bad yesterday, he was never very aggressive (is this odd?) and he would always hide, but would come out to eat. Anyways, mid afternoon he started lying on the bottom of the tank breathing heavily. His color seemed fine and he had no marks on him. The only thing I can think of is that this tank was from my dad and has never had a full water change. It used to be occupied by indigenous species from the bay i.e.. killies, crabs and a porgy. They have all since died, even the crabs. Could it be some sort of parasite? Please get back to me I don’t know what to do... GRETA
<Sounds environmental to me, check your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels, otherwise look for some sort of toxic substance in the water, does not sound like a disease to me.>
<Chris>

Death of LTA Causing Pollution – 3/29/07
Hi crew,
<Hello, Brenda here>
I haven’t written in a while, but have a somewhat urgent question that I can’t find the answer to.  I had a purple long tentacle anemone that mysteriously decided to leave his spot in a rock and apparently somehow tore his foot in the process.  He actually looked as if I had forcibly moved it.  I never touched it by the way.  
<Did it come in contact with a power head?>
Anyway it was injured and then began to go downhill and within a couple of days totally disintegrated, died and had to be removed.  In the process of removing it, it pretty much came apart and many parts of it (very small parts) went everywhere throughout the tank.  
<Yikes!>
The tank is 150 gallon with a large ASM skimmer so I wasn’t too concerned and figured that the skimmer would take care of getting the stuff out of the water, along with the crabs.
<Not necessarily fast enough.  I suggest a large water change also.  I also don’t recommend crabs with anemones.   Crabs have been known to pester and attack these creatures.>
I have no idea what happened to make him move or why he died, but my question really is this:  I have a tube anemone that I have had about two weeks.
<Your tube anemone is likely the reason your LTA decided to move.  You should not house two anemones in one system.>
He has been very active and healthy, stays totally open all the time and looks gorgeous; he has never closed since I have had it.  This morning I get up and the tube anemone is TOTALLY closed.  
<Check your water parameters.>
I have not seen this at all since I got it.  Last night he was wonderful and seemed normal.  Could he be suffering some sort of reaction to the death of the purple anemone?
<Yes, from the pollution.>
I have heard something about toxins getting in the tank when anemones die. Would this have happened and caused the other to have problems?
<Yes, ammonia is extremely toxic.>  
My water parameters were tested the day before the purple anemone died and they were all perfect.  No ammonia, no nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, SG1.024,
<Salinity at 1.026 is best for anemones.>
Temp is always 78-81 night to day and I have lots of light MH and actinic, lots.  The calcium is steady at 440 to 460 and the ph 8.4.  These tests were the day before the purple anemone death; I have not tested this morning. Any help or insight into this would be most helpful.  I don’t want to lose this other anemone too.
<You definitely need to monitor your water parameters closely after something dies.  Have saltwater ready at all times in case of an emergency.>
Thanks,  Debi
<You’re welcome!  Brenda>

Ich on corals? Cnid. allelopathy, esp. dangerous in smaller vol.s  3/28/07
Hi guys!  I'm hoping you can help me out of what I'm afraid might be my 1st experience with Ich (or marine velvet). I have a 24g Nano with MH lights, temp=80, spg 1.025, ph=8.3-8.4 (depending on am or pm measure), calcium=450, nitrites, nitrates and am=0.  I do 3g H2O changes weekly.  We have 2 true Percs, a royal Gramma, 2 peppermint shrimp, assorted snails and hermit crabs.  Corals include Blasto, assorted mushrooms, Zoas, sun coral (my favorite), toadstool and Plays.
<Yikes... trouble with all these disparate Cnidarians down the road... with growth... do settle on not adding any more species... and DO be diligent re maintenance>
I noticed white spots on our palys 4 days ago, and they have gotten worse.  I removed and gave to a friend to put in his hospital tank (I am getting one tomorrow!).
<Good moves!>
  Now I noticed that the Gramma is looking beat up. and scratching itself on the live rock. He's not breathing heavy, though. I think I see 2 pinhead white spots on the fin of 1 of the Percs. I plan to take all 3 fish and put in hospital tank as soon as I have it set up, but I'm wondering if the corals are at risk of this parasite, since it seemed to start on the palys.
<Mmm, not likely a parasite... of any of them... But very likely a matter of the fishes being exposed to types of chemical warfare twixt the stinging-celled life... "Caught in the cross-fire" so to speak">
I have had them for 1 mo already.  I just don't want to treat the fish, and wind up with all the corals getting this white stuff too!  Please advise!  Thank you!!  
-Debbie
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompfaqs.htm
And the linked files above... Perhaps my write-up on Tom Walsh's small systems from years back... The "Garden Mix" of Zoanthids, Scleractinians et al. you list is possible, though not really practical in small volumes... these sessile animals species have varying, but highly effective strategies for "saving space", hogging light, gathering food exclusively to themselves... These potent stinging, poisoning, over-growing mechanisms easily play havoc in small captive systems... As you are experiencing. There are a few strategies for limiting the morbidity and mortality here... Read on. Bob Fenner>

Sea Apple = A-Bomb  03/25/07
I am completely heartbroken and devastated.  All the fish in my main saltwater tank (135 gallons) were just killed by a Sea Apple that eviscerated while I was at work except for three fish.  
<Unfortunate, but all too common.  I am sorry for you loss.>
Only two paired Ocellaris Clowns and one Blue Green Chromis survived.  Fifteen others sadly
died, including four cleaner shrimp.  Apparently this happened when my local electric company temporarily terminated electricity and my equipment turned off.  I came home to find the devastation, dead fish everywhere and the worm-like insides of the Sea Apple were all over the tank.  
<Such is the risk of keeping Holothuroids in a populated tank.  Evisceration is really more of an eventuality than a risk.  It most likely WILL happen and at an inopportune moment.>
By the way, there were all kinds of unidentified creatures in the tank that I have never seen before, some were crab-like, others had shapeless forms and were about a half inch wide, what are these things?
<Various Polychaete worms, and other crustaceans most likely.  Impossible to say for certain without a photo, even then exact I.D. is hit or miss.>
Fortunately I had a second tank where I put the three fish (24 gallon Nano).  They seem to be doing OK.  
<This is a good thing.  Why don‘t you have a Quarantine tank?>
Unfortunately, I have a pair of established Tomato Clowns that immediately started hassling the Ocellaris’ and the Chromis so I caught one of the Tomato Clowns and put him in a ventilated breeding unit to isolate him from the others.  I am working on catching the other which is hiding in his Bubble Tipped Anemone,  I hate to have to do this but I want the stressed fish from the other tank to be able to relax and de-stress without being chased all over the tank.  
<Another reason to have the quarantine tank.>
Do you think this is a good idea?  
<Would be better to have a quarantine tank.  Go purchase a 10 gallon tank, and a heater and filter.  Place some established media from the Nano that you have into it’s filter.  Then place your stressed fish into it.  This is much better than hassling an established environment.>
I need advice on what to do now with the main tank.  
<Siphon out the remaining viscera, and about 70 % of the water.  Over the next few days do a 20% water change each day.  This should dilute the poison.  Make sure that you get ALL of the dead animals.  They will be broken down as part of Nitrification, and will pollute your tank.>
I will remove the dead fish but what do I do with the corals, they seem to all be fine, will they survive?
<Hard to say.  Time will tell.>
Should I remove the corals immediately to plastic container with chemically adjusted RO water?  Or should I risk putting the corals in my 24 gallon Nano?  
<I would follow the water change plan firstly.  Then if the corals start to degrade I would consider moving them.  You don’t want to do anything drastic that might crash the Nano too.>
Would that possibly poison the water in the Nano?  
<I would think that the increased bioload would cause problems.>
I also have two Crocea Clams, will they likely survive?  
<Again time will tell.  Please see above Re: Water Changes.>
After I remove the corals and snails or anything else that is still alive what should I do with the water?  I would assume I should completely drain it, is that correct?  
<Please see above.  I would NOT drain all of the water.>
What about the live rock and live sand, what should I do with them?  How will the worms die and how should I get rid of them?
<Not really sure what you are asking.  I was under the impression that these worms were already dead.  If not, then NO LEAVE THEM ALONE.  They are GOOD for your system, and are present in all healthy systems.>
Are these worms toxic themselves and if they remain alive in the rock after the cleanup are they harmful to the tank?  
<No.  They are your friends.  Likely came out because they sensed carrion which is what they eat.>
After a complete water change which I’ll assume I should do, how soon can I replace any fish and corals?  
<Do not do a complete water change.  I would do one large change and then a few days worth of 20% changes, and then a weeks worth of small 5-10% changes.  Start adding fish one at a time and QUARANTINE them.  I would say one fish every two weeks.>
Should I treat the tank in any way?  Do I have to completely recycle the tank?  Could you please take me through the proper steps I should take at this time, I need help.  
<If you don’t change all of the water at once you should be fine.  There are obviously some creatures that survived.>
When I eventually pick myself up and slowly add fish back to the tank I vow to always listen to the advice of the WetWebMedia crew.  You guys know what you are talking about.  
<Thank you for your kind words.>
My story is probably a typical one; I asked about Sea Apples from a LFS and was told that they were harmless filter feeders.  
<More or less true, unless you irritate one.>
I was attracted to their bright colors and figured I could trust the store owner.  I didn’t do my research and found out a few days later through your site that Sea Apples were potential killers and should be avoided.  
<Doh!  You should always research before purchase.>
I contemplated returning the Sea Apple and was strongly leaning toward doing just that until I did some further research with obviously less well-informed “experts” that theorized that a tank wipeout was extremely unlikely.
<They obviously have not kept Holothuroids for extended periods of time…>
They also said that most of the fish would survive even if it did happen and there likely would be time to get the fish out.  
<Again Holothurin/Holotoxin is a very powerful neurotoxin.  It also depends on the kind of Holothuroid that you have.  Some are worse than others.>
Unfortunately, you were right and they were dead wrong and my fish paid the price.  
<Sad to hear this really.>
I feel responsible because I was forewarned by you after I bought the Sea Apple.  I had a healthy thriving tank with no deaths for seven months.  The water was good, I was doing routine water changes, all the fish were healthy and I had the Sea Apple for about six months with no problems.  I have learned a painful lesson and I vow to be a more conscientious fish owner from this point forward.  
<We all learn from our mistakes.  Everyone was new to this at some point.>
I usually follow your advice to the tee but all I takes is one major mistake.  I also learned to never trust my LFS without doing research before hand.   I know this is a touchy subject but what would you do in this situation regarding the LFS that sold me the Sea Apple.  What action and I don’t necessarily mean legal action would you take.  
<I would make my situation know to them.  If they seem unconcerned or callous about your plight, I would further go to the local Marine Aquarium Society.  I would tell them what happened and ask that they not patron this establishment.  You could put up a blog to share this experience, etc.>
I am curious to read your response.  In the meantime I can really use some immediate help with this mess ASAP.
<I hope that this helps.>
Thank You,
<You are welcome.>
(please feel free to post this for others to read in the Marine Aquarium
articles)
<This correspondence, like all correspondence to WWM will be posted.  Brandon.>
Have you received this, I haven’t seen a response.     3/26/07
<Yes this was received.  Should be an E-mail in your in box waiting on you.  I have a copy of the response that I sent.  Let me know if I need to resend it.>
Where will I see a response, I could use some help with my problem.
<You have received an E-mail, and you can check the response on the daily FAQ section of the site as well.>
Thanks
<You are welcome.  Brandon.>

New rock old rock and cycling problem?? – 03/18/07
Hi guys.
<Rochelle>
I'm transitioning to a bigger tank. I set up a new 55g saltwater tank a week ago. I added from my established 30g tank... 10 gal of water, some live sand
sprinkled on top of the new 40# of crushed coral, the rinsed carbon filter and a live rock, in hopes of moving things along a little quicker. after day
4 things looked great! no ammonia, no nitrites and on 10ppm nitrates, assumably due to the brown algae in the established tank from the water I
used. so I added a damsel. Things went well... he lived. my best friend owns a pet store so I got the inside scoop on the new live rock coming in, I had
to have some!! it's gorgeous Fiji!
<Mmm... still... better to "cure" this elsewhere...>
so I picked out about 5 pounds after we rinsed it off and I brought it home and picked off the dead plants and
sponges, that was day 5. now my ammonia level, on day 8, is going up currently at 1.0 and my nitrites are 1.0
<Both toxic...>
and nitrates are 40 PH is good at 8 4. I know those parameters aren't horrible, bit I have some fragile critters and I like near perfect water.
<Move either the "old" life or the new rock, stat.!>
I'm confused. my parameters in my other tank never increased or decreased no mater how much I was poking around in there, never ammonia or nitrites. do I do a water change if this keeps up?  do I leave it alone? is it cycling again?
<It's toxified by dying life on the new LR...>
maybe I interrupted something by using stuff from my established tank? still lots of dead stuff on the new rock?
<Yes>
eventually everything from my established tank will be going to the new one, slowly of course to prevent shock.
<I wouldn't worry re this... move the new LR or "old stuff" now...>
I feel uncomfortable adding any more live rock from the established tank due to the amount of baby sea stars living on them. and my brown starfish has split and is somewhere regenerating he could be on the rocks. I guess my question is.... do I leave my 55g alone a let the live rock cycle and cure?
<I would NOT>
Do I do water changes to reduce the ammonia and nitrites? if I do a water change will the ammonia and nitrites increase again?
<Source needs to be separated... PRONTO>
I have a yellow sea slug Nudibranch thing, a 10" red sea star, 8-10 baby sea stars, pencil urchin, pincushion urchin, the dumbest hermit crab on
earth, an emerald crab, 2 gobies, a brown star fish that his split into 3 pieces, and 4 damsels. they kinda need a bigger home. I don't want to kill
anything, I know this will be time consuming since my live rock has to acclimated in cuz of the baby stars. I'm not sure what to do here. I want to
do things quickly but safely.
thanks for your help
Sheli
<Bob Fenner>

Nitrate and Phosphate spike... SW troubleshooting... "other poisoned" event  2/28/07
Thanks in advance for the time you take to read and answer these questions, and for the fantastic wealth of information that you make available.  I've had countless questions answered thanks to your web site.
<Welcome>
I have a 90 gallon display tank, with a 60 gallon refugium/sump (about 45g water volume).  I have a 4.5" sand bed and about 210lbs of live rock.  The system has been setup for about 9mths, and was an upgrade from a previous 55g system (3years old).  For nutrient control I have a Coralife 220 skimmer and a 20g section of the refugium loaded with Caulerpa.
<Mmmm, this Chlorophyte has largely fallen out of favor...>
Up until about 2 months ago everything was doing great, the soft corals I have were growing out of control and all the inhabitants looked great.  Around 2 months ago I noticed a rapid decline in coral health, and I was starting to get a lot of Aiptasia growth.
<Mmm, indications of some rapid change in conditions...>
I started doing daily water tests looking for any issues, and all tests came up with near 0 levels, the same as before.
<Actual tests, values please... Can't tell what specifically you're referring to in any substantive way w/o>
As time went on I continued with more frequent (10% weekly, up from 5%) water changes however the coral health continued to decline, Aiptasia spread was on the rise, and I started getting red algae growth on the sand surface and the rocks.
<Further evidence... BGA...>
At this point, with my test kits still reporting no issues, I decided to take some of my water to a local fish store.  Tests at the store show that my phosphate and nitrate are off the scale of their test kit. (not sure on the phosphate, but the nitrate is >100)
<Yikes... but from what is the real question>
After replacing my test kits and some discussion with the staff at the store I decided on a phosphate reactor loaded with Rowaphos and some Seachem nitrate removal media, along with more water changes (20% ever couple days, as fast as I can get water made and stabilized).
<Mmm... but these are remedial measures... treating symptoms... Do you understand? What is/are the root cause/s here?>
This brings me to my questions.
   1. My most pressing issue is of course to get the levels back down to acceptable levels. Are the methods above sufficient, or could I be doing more?
<Mmm... please see below>
   2. Equally concerning is why the spike in levels.  I haven't changed    any of my routines, feeding habits, or bio-load (remains unchanged since the    55g days), but something triggered this rapid spike.
<Yes. Agreed... and this is what you really need to address... Identify and fix>
  I can recall 3 events that might have contributed to this issue, and was wondering if you believe any of them could have contributed:
      1. The suction cups on one of my Seio 1500's let go and it       pointed down at the sand, moving a large mound of sand down to bare glass       before I got home.
<Mmm, maybe a contributor... might have triggered some sort of "cascade event" with some life form... causing it to negatively react, interact with other life...>
      2. I pruned a large amount of macro algae in the refugium (about       50%) because it was growing out of control
<I DO believe this is likely a large influence here>
      3. The lights (2x90w Phillips daylights) on my refugium burned       out, and I replaced then with some 90w fluorescents (also supposed to be       daylights, but the color is not the same).
<This also>
  I want to go back to the Phillips bulbs as soon as I can find them again.
   3. What would you recommend housing in the refugium aside from the macro algae and crabs and snails I currently have.
Thanks in advance,
Derek.
<I would actually "clean out" the refugium (up to actually taking it "down", rinsing all the substrate, possibly even bleaching/washing all to rid it of the Caulerpa...) in order to switch out to a more suitable algae... Likely either a Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria species... AND avail yourself (at least for a month or two) of both activated carbon (like a unit of Chemi-pure or equivalent, and a pad of Polyfilter.... in your filter flow path... I do think your system, livestock suffered some sort of allelopathogenic event... and these steps are the safest, surest way to get the system re-centered. Bob Fenner>

Carnage. Reef livestock losses... env., toxicity?  2/19/07
Hi,
I have a 120 gallon reef tank which I thought was doing pretty well until yesterday morning when a number of my fish died or were dying.  They looked as if they were starving for oxygen.  I lost three angels, a tang, spotted  hawk.
and a marine beta.  A very large wrasse and tomato clown were subdued but are just fine today after an emergency water exchange.
<Useful data... these would persist longer than the others lost... due to low O2, other poisoning types>
  Indeed the tank looks as beautiful as ever.
<... frightening...>
I went to the local retailer for help with a pre-water exchange water sample.
The pH was fine, next to no nitrates. dKH was fine, Mg 1200, Ca 340 to 385 depending on the test kit used.  I was unable to get any good explanation for this occurrence other than there must have been a sudden change in pH due to excessive CO2.  
<Mmm... no, not likely>
But my morning pH is no different than any other time.  I have no excessive algae to speak of.
Another puzzling thing; I use the two step calcium replacement, Kent part A and part B.  Lately, when I add the part B I get a snow effect that lasts just a few minutes.  
<... not in your main display... Please... do such adjustments through water changes... the products added there... dissolved... ahead of time>
Is this anything to be concerned about?
<All sorts>
  And while I'm thinking about it is there a general rule for the amount of calcium and magnesium to add to a reef tank?
<... None... directly...>
  Also,  I'm looking for a reliable calcium test kit.  Any recommendations?
<Posted on WWM... LaMotte, Hach... on the lower end, Salifert>
In any case, I'm at a loss as to finding out why these fish died.  I haven't changed anything other than getting some better lighting.
<In recent times? Anything else?>
I do water exchanges monthly
<I would do these at least bi-monthly>
including vacuuming the bottom of the tank.  Trace minerals are added consistently.
<Only through water changes...>
I did recently add a rather large medusa worm which I don't see anymore.  I don't know if it was lost in the carnage or could it possibly have caused this carnage by dying?  
<Yes... this or other possibly seemingly innocuous animal demise, upset... For instance, sea cucumbers of many sorts...>
Any input you may have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray                           
<I do think you suffered an internal biological toxicity... but can't detect what organism/s might be involved from the information presented... Would proceed slowly, use chemical filtrant/s, make water chemistry and physics changes outside the system going forward. Bob Fenner>

Panther Grouper Help... Ridiculous mix, crowding... iatrogenic troubles    02/17/07
I have a panther grouper in a 65 gallon tank.
<Too small in time>
I bought him a week ago. He is swimming funny when he swims?
<Is he?>
Like he is standing on his head and almost flipping over and hides most of the time but if I touch him he takes off with a lot of energy. His tank mates are a lion fish and niger trigger and saddle grouper.
<Ridiculously over-crowded... trouble... now>
No one picks on him but he a little smaller then the rest? All other fish are fine but he wont eat? Any ideas? Any help would be more then appreciated. Thanks Rick in Clearwater  FL
<You have an incompatible mix... and a time bomb on your hands here... Read re the needs (Systems) and Compatibility of the species you list... on WWM, elsewhere... and trade in all or get another much larger system... Now. Bob Fenner>

Re: Panther Grouper Help... Ridiculous mix, crowding... iatrogenic troubles  - 02/17/2007
When you say incompatible mix? Do you mean the fish or size of tank? Thanks Rick
<Both my friend... read, don't write. BobF>

Overstocked puffers, triggers and tangs... 2/15/7
I purchased a Blue Throat Trigger and Porcupine Puffer from my locals LFS on Sunday.  They are housed in a 60 gallon tank with live rock and sand.
<<Woefully small for those fish.  Not even close to large enough for one of them alone.   Were they quarantined? You do plan to move them soon, right?>>
The tank mates are 1 Picasso Trigger (2 in.), 1 Lipstick Tang (4 in.) and a Diamond Goby (3 in.).
<<I can’t even begin to tell you how over-stocked you are. Your first move needs to be researching the animals you own, and housing them properly.  It is only responsible.>>
The BT Trigger was doing fine from the first day, it ate everything I put into the tank and seemed to swim and do all the things expected from a trigger.  Then, I got home today on Wednesday and it was hiding and not very energetic.  A couple of hours later, I went out and came back, it was dead.
<<How did you account for the increase in bio-load to an already too-full tank? What are your number readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? HUGE water changes right now are needed.>>
It was inside one of its favorite hiding spots and was not moving at all.  The water conditions are all fine,
<<Fine meaning what? I assure you your tank is not fine.>>
but I'm not sure why it died so quickly.  No signs of it being stressed or parasites.
Now for the puffer.  It hasn't eaten well since day one.
<<Should be in QT still.>>
I tried feeding it everything from seafood, flakes and pellets.  I think it may be eating when the lights are out and picking up whatever was left on the bottom.
<<Doubtful.>>
But today, I found a gray patch on its back and it seems to be growing.  I have no idea what it is and it keeps growing.  I read on your site it might be cancer or something that nobody knows about.
<<Also doubtful.>>
What should I do?
<<Get this fish into a proper QT tank of his own.  Depending on its size, a 60 of its own may do fir the time being.  A full grown Porc needs at least, as in an absolute minimum of 100 gallons.  They grow to 19” long.  In a tank as small and overstocked as yours, stunting and premature death are a given for all of your fish.>>
I'm worried the puffer might not last long.
<<Almost a certainty.>>
The original fish in the tank seem to be in bad states as well.
<<Due to additional bioload to an already stressed tank.>>
The Picasso trigger is lethargic and barely eating.  The lipstick tang has a bubble in one of its eyes, but is swimming and eating normally.  The only one that seems not to be affected is the goby.  Do I treat the tank with some medication?  If so, what do you recommend?
<<No. The housing you have for your fish is what must be remedied, as soon as possible.>>
Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gar
<<Please go tank and bio-Spira shopping, and/or return most of your fish to the store. Lisa.>>

Koran angel and yellow tang, env. stress, env.   2/14/07
Hey guys,
First time writer here, and I must say this is a fantastic website that I've spent a lot of time on and need to spend even longer on. Ok I have two questions for ya. First I'll give the quick background on my tank. It's a 75 FOWLR it includes a clown, 2 damsels, a 4-line wrasse, yellow tang, and Koran Angelfish.
<Will need more room>
The tank has been running for 2.5 months now. About 2 weeks ago I switched heaters and the temp spiked up to 86 on me then I just barely adjusted and it bottomed out around 76.
<Yikes!>
I then put my old heater back in and things are fine (I actually just bought one of those digital probe temp checks with an alarm that goes off when the temp gets outside 76-82 I nice tool to have)
<Neat>
anyway a week later or so the yellow tang I believe started hemorrhaging with the red lines on his face and breathing really quickly and not eating. A week later he has I think mostly settled down and is eating some and swimming around a bit again-still breathing quickly and the red lines are still there. So I'm thinking he's on the mend.
<Likely so... maybe brought about by the thermal insult, what it wrought in turn...>
A few days after the tang developed his symptoms the angel got a what looked liked a fungus on one of his fins a small cotton growth. I fresh water dipped him and a few days later it fell off or went away but now he has a couple more spots now on the body only size of a pin head though. Wondering what you guys think-I've been through all the Koran angelfish FAQ's and not seen this.
<Might be just "stress" markings...>
My tank conditions are 79 degrees, 1.021 density,
<I'd raise this... see WWM re>
20-40 ppm Nitrate
<And lower this... Ditto>
and pH between 7.7-8.0 (I have a difficult time here in MN keeping my pH between 8-8.3 seems like I'm buffering constantly)
<Uh... that website... read>
with a BioWheel 350, Prizm skimmer, and 10 lbs LR. I know the filtering process could be more but I'm planning on buying a 180 tank and have been buying the sump, pumps, larger skimmers, bio balls and everything else to get ready for that. lastly the diet of the fish is... the tang and angel get Nori and Romaine lettuce,
<I'd drop this... may be part of your problem here...>
angel frozen fish food (sponge and algae) some frozen brine shrimp, then flake food. I know I wrote a ton but I figure you should see the whole picture.
Thanks again for the great website
Jeff Fitzmorris
<Read on my/our friend... Read on. Bob Fenner>

Tang Troubles 2/14/07
To whom it may concern,
<Hi>
I have recently bought a blue tang. And am having some difficulties getting him to eat and even come out of hiding. He constantly is lying on his side. My pH was out but is now right and is 8.3 and I had to buffer my water. <Shock> I also had no bacteria and had to put bacteria starter in. <Uncycled tank?  First Fish?  Need more info.> He is still not eating and is still not coming out what do I do please help.
thank you for your time.           hayalz
<Sounds like you have an uncycled tank and related poor water quality.  This would explain the tang's behavior.  Please see here for more  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm .>
<Chris>