Cleaner Gobys need not apply! - 8/11/04
Hi, Frank here again. <Hey Frank! Paul here in Utah this week>
I was thinking of getting one more fish that stays small. <Ok> What's your take on a cleaner/neon goby. <No thanks. These fish rarely do very well long term in an aquarium setting in my experience. Some people do have luck with them but I find them to starve over time as they rarely find enough from cleanings and don't take to frozen foods too well. If you were to try one you could try fresh live baby brine (Artemia or live rotifers)>  Will he get along with my 6-line wrasse, percula clown, and most importantly my bicolor blenny. <Not likely.>  I know some blennies chase gobies and the cleaner goby is the same shape and style of fish almost (long and skinny). <Very true. This has been reported to me as an issue> Will the cleaner goby's cleaning ability make him recognized and safe by my other fish and the bicolor blenny, or is he doomed. <Likely doomed>  Would a blenny nip cause the goby to hide and keep his distance or are they wimps, would the goby just take abuse and eventually die? <Depends on the personality of the goby. I would say that there is a chance it never even tries to clean any of your fish and just starve to death.>  My tank is 25 gal, 30x12x14 inches. I know all fish are territorial to some extent, but stocking capacity aside, would the cleaner goby be ok and would any niche that he might have be able to co-exist with the others. <Not likely, in my experience. I would try a Citron Goby or sometimes referred to as the clown goby. More of a bottom dweller. The Gobiodon atrangulatus grows up to 1.5 inches. The small size will come to you generally 1 to 1½ inches; the medium generally 1½ to 2½ inches; the large generally 2½ to 4 inches. The Clown Goby, Green prefers a tank of at least 20 gallons with plenty of places to hide & swim. The Gobiodon atrangulatus is a carnivore and likes to eat brine & Mysid shrimp and other meaty treats. The Clown Goby is a low maintenance fish and may act peacefully toward other fish. Able to breed. Reef-safe. Seems to get chased a lot by the Pseudochromis. Keep the water quality high (SG 1.020 - 1.025, pH 8.1 - 8.4, Temp. 72 - 78° F). Good luck to you! ~Paul>
Thank you now and for all the past advice,
Frank

Just one more....How about a Clown Goby (8/8/04)
Hi, Frank here again.  <Leslie here this time>
This is related to one of my previous questions.  According to previously read advice read, all over this amazing web site I would have to say you would condone a 25 gal tank with one small perc clown, small 6-line wrasse and a bicolor blenny.  My question is if I really had to add one more fish, could I possibly add a tiny clown goby because I read they can max out a 1.5 inches.  
<Had to eh?  You would not be twisting your own arm now would you? Those are all pretty small fish, so  I suppose if you absolutely had to add just one more fish you could but the little goby is not the best choice. Bicolor blennies are known for picking on gobies and firefish. >
Can you tell me how this would affect bi-load, living and feeding niche as compared to my current fish, and are they jumpers like those long skinny gobies, and are they pod eaters or do they accept the usual food like flakes and brine and Mysis?
< Here is some info on the Clown Gobies.......
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gobiodon.htm
I don't think it would have a huge impact on your bioload. They are reported in the literature as fairly easy to keep and quite charming. I personally have found them difficult to feed and have had poor luck with them.  I would not recommend them. The literature says they will accept meaty foods and can be fed once a day in a tank with live substrate, more often without. They are not dependent on pods as are many other fish. I do not think they are jumpers but your bicolor blenny is certainly capable so you should have a covered tank.
If you have to have an additional fish a better option would an Assessor  There are 2 species commonly seen in the aquarium trade one yellow and one blue. They are very interesting and hardy little fish. ...here is a link to an excellent article
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/hcs3/index.htm>
Thank you very much?  I'll be back, lol. Frank
Your welcome and we will look forward to it, Leslie.

Clown Gobies
Dear WW Media, <Hi Laurie, MacL here with you tonight>
Recently I purchased a green clown goby and a yellow goby for my 150 gallon tank and have had both fish in quarantine for the last 2 weeks.  The yellow is eating well and will accept baby live brine (enriched with Selcon), Cyclop-eeze, Sweetwater zooplankton, and tiny pieces of frozen formula one. It is hard to tell, but I think the green goby is only eating the baby brine. <Not good unless the baby brine has been supplemented with Zoë or Selcon or something similar. Brine shrimp alone doesn't have much nutrition.> Its abdomen is sunken (it arrived that way) and I am concerned that it might not be getting enough to eat. <It might also possibly have some type of intestinal worm or even possibly cyanide. I hope not but its always important to pick a fish that is healthy looking at the store. Sorry didn't mean to sound like I was preaching.>  Theoretically, will the baby brine be enough to help it gain back some weight?...Or, is there another food you would suggest trying? <I'd try to get some pods or at least soak the baby brine with some Zoë or Selcon or some other type of vitamin supplement.>  I have read that copepods are a big part of this fish's natural diet---aside from spending a large fortune to ship in some ocean plankton is there any other good copepod substitutes? <You can get copepods in various places. Many stores online sell them and you can find Mysis most places. Your local pet store might be cultivating them. I know people who put pieces of PVC in their tank for the pods to breed. Then they close off both side pull it out of the tank and use it to seed other peoples tanks.> Originally when I set up my Q-tank I added a small live rock from the main tank to help establish the bacterial bed. Along with the rock came a few Mysis(?) shrimp that resided in the main tank. <Great copepods!>  These seem to be the perfect size (2xs the size of new hatched brine) for the goby's little mouth but I haven't notice it eat any. I did try live brine adults but these were too big--- neither goby attempted to eat them. The last few days I have tried adding the baby brine three times a day (without fouling the Q-tank) to give the goby a longer foraging time since after a few hours the numbers of brine floating about decreases. To complicate matters I have noticed a few patches of its skin that seem bleached/discolored and possibly a white spot or two today.  It still is eating though. <This doesn't sound good. It might be ich, the vitamins should help this as well.> Unfortunately, I moved the yellow goby to the main tank a day ago in hopes to reduce competition for food. The yellow goby has no spots, looks very healthy, and it is eating ok in its new environment. Assuming that these fish are pretty resistant to ich could I possibly have infected my main tank? <Possibly but you might not have as well if its showing no signs of infection. Its always best to do a full quarantine but I do understand your thinking on this.> After watching the behaviors of both fish I would recommend to anyone interested in clown gobies to pick the yellow species over the green since they seem hardier, more outgoing, and are more likely to move about in the open. I have a 2 year old mandarin in the main tank which eats baby brine etc. and despite what the books say it seems much hardier than clown gobies. <I'm betting your mandarin is also eating Mysis and other pods in your rocks. Good luck, MacL>
Thank you,
Laurie

Clown goby question
Hi!<Hi! MikeD here>  I'm inquiring about possibly getting a clown goby for my tank.  I have a 55 gallon tank that is recently set up (we've had it for about 8 weeks or so).  It has 4-5 inch deep live sand bed.  approximately 30 pounds of live rock.  We have a refugium w/ith some live sand, live rock, and macroalgae and tons of "bugs" crawling around in there.  So far we have added 1 sand sifting star, 2 Nassarius snails, 1 royal Gramma, 3 blue/green Chromis and 1 cleaner shrimp.  All seem to be going very very well.  We haven't had any losses -- we added this live stock slowly after the tank cycled with the LR/LS.    We were thinking of adding one more fish to complete the tank.  We like the clown goby<Nice little fish, and very under-rated for quiet tanks> --  either citrinus or atrangulatus.  We do not have coral, but plenty of little hidey holes in the live rock -- do you think that would be ok for a clown goby, or do they really need coral to hide in?<In my estimation, they should do just fine as it sounds like a perfect set up for them>  Also, I'm kind of confused, we were going to order them online because we can't find them in our local LFS and really aren't happy with their fish quality anyway, but the site says that they will fight with their own species and recommends one per tank; however, your website's article on clown gobies indicates that they will pair off and getting them in pairs can be a good thing.<The trouble can be in getting a true pair, that is, one male and one female, as they appear the same>  I really really want to do what is best for the fish, so I'm writing to get your opinion on this before we actually make any purchase.  In your experience, would a clown goby work with the other fish I have, and would it be best to get 1or 2?<One would definitely work very well, while with two there's always the chance of conflict, in this case literally 50/50. I would think there's enough room for one to get away from the other in a 55 gal. tank, while this probably would be less true in a smaller tank. With clowns, you have the added advantage of their not being an overly active fish, increasing the odds of success. There are no absolute guarantees, but I suspect you'd be just fine.>
Thanks so much for any advice!!!<Hope this helps>
Amy

New Yellow Clown Goby
Hi again !<Hi Back...MikeD here>
Thanks so much for your sound advice! I currently have a nano marine set-up, 10 gal, 10 lbs live rock, 3 inch sandbed, which is currently housing 3 small
false Clownfishes. After a month's quarantine and a fallow tank, my tank and fishes are now ich free, which I owe it all to you guys!<Glad it worked!> The fishes are in its 10th day in the display tank, ich free and eating, which I hope would continue to stay that way. I have plans to upgrade to a 50 gal. tank as I've seen them very active and 10 gal. won't do them justice.<You'll probably be much happier. Often larger tanks are actually easier and ALWAYS more forgiving if you err a little.>
Yesterday I went to the LFS and saw this less than 1 inch yellow clown goby.
Out of pity I purchased him because he was really banged up.<Been three all too often.> He had beaten
fins and some injury on his body, but no severe bleeding or red spots. He's now in the QT and I am nursing him to health. I've read the FAQs on them and found little information on how and what to feed him. I've given him small
pieces of squid, prawn, Tetra sinking morsels and Tetra flake food but still he wouldn't eat. Is it because he is still recovering from his injury and
shipping?<Possibly. I'd suggest using a good antibiotic if there's body damage, and even for the fins. Even with healthy Clown gobies it's often best to start them out with live brine shrimp to get them started, and with an injured one, may be it's only chance> I'm observing him and sometimes he'd "stand-up", sometimes at the corner hiding. I've also observed that he'd really stand still, and I thought he was dead because there was little movement, event mouth and gill movements were really at a minimum. Is he relaxing or something ? Would he
accept the food I'm giving if he has adjusted to the QT ?<Likely not. Again, live brine if possible>
I may put some Methylene blue<NO!!!! Many gobies are scaleless or nearly so to the point that die based medications can be fatal!> on the QT to help him in healing 3 days from now, I'll just give him time to adjust.<My suggestion would be Maracyn (brand name for Erythromycin) an antibiotic that I've used for over 30 years>  I hope he gets better.<me too>
Hope you could advise on what food and how to take care of him.<I hope the info helps, but if he doesn't make it, keep in mind they are delicate little guys to begin with, more so if injured, so you took on an uphill battle, very commendable in my book, so it's not your fault>
Thanks!<Good Luck and You're very welcome>

 Re: New Yellow Clown Goby
Hi MikeD !
<Hi back, MikeD again>
Thanks for the advice! It's really good to ask the experts first before
doing anything.<Whoa...no expert here, just an old guy that's been doing this a long time **grin**>
Well, he's still not eating. And last night I put some light on to check his condition. He has a little frayed top fin, but what concerns more was that he was injured, but he has lots of 'warts' like things protruding in his body and fins. I am unable to get a clear ID on what he has, its either Lymphocystis or Marine Ich, or both. I know what ich looks like because of my clowns =) .. but I am not sure about the actual appearance of Lymphocystis, all I know is that it looks like big ich (cotton like) and the bump comes from within the body, and it also manifests on fins. Its a little bigger and more protruding than ich, and he doesn't have rapid breathing.<That's a good sign>
Is it okay if I lower the salinity a bit?< A "bit" probably won't do any good, and I believe clown gobies are a tad more delicate than many of their tough little cousins> I am doing daily water changes to assist his healing. I read the FAQs and there is no cure for Lymphocystis except for good water and environment.<I'd continue with what you're doing until you can be sure (a good magnifying glass might help) as the wrong treatment can often be worse than the disease!>
Thanks again !<You're very welcome. Continued good luck>
Romel

-Yellow clown goby adopting anemone!-
Dear all,
I bought a Yellow Clown Goby and it kept swimming and playing with my Anemone H. Crispa??? Is this normal behaviour or is the anemone "eating" my Goby or vice versa??? It nips on the anemone and doesn't appeared to be stuck on the anemone.... I pity my Clarkii Clown caused the anemone was its home till it was "chased away" by the mini goby...
<I was not aware of any such behavior from yellow clown gobies, but after reading this I stumbled upon this thread on reefs.org: http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=34400
Apparently these guys will associate with other organisms besides Acropora and other SPS corals. Go figure. You can rest assured that the anemone is not eating your goby, if it did the goby would simply be sucked inside. Keep an eye out for damage on the anemone just to be safe, but I think you're in for a not so common treat! -Kevin>
Cheers!
Caleb

Goby Quarantine Period
Bob:
I was at a seminar that you gave in Brooklyn, NY on May 9, 2003. I came across some notes I took from that day, and it seems that you said Gobies do not need a standard quarantine period. I wrote down "a few days". I wanted some clarification, since I just purchased a 1" Yellow Clown Goby (Gobiodon okinawae) and it is currently in my quarantine tank. Thanks, Rich
(*bursting* with anticipation on RI).
<Thank you for writing. I do stand by the general statement re a foreshortened quarantine period for most (small) gobies and blennies... for what quarantine is worth, any more than a few days presents a "bad trade-off" with loss of weight, overall health>
Ps: Did you cut your hair yet? Every time I forget what you look like, I think of Sam Kinison, sans hat! ;)
<Ha! Did have some trimmed off, but am adamant to keep my neck warm... and besides, Sam.K is dead! Bob Fenner>

A mated pair of green clown goby? 3/24/03
Hi, recently I have bought a ~7" table Acro and come with it there are 2 green clown gobies (ha-ha.. that is the main reason why I bought it!). One of them is ~1.5" and the other one is ~2". Is there any chance that they can become a mated pair?
<they are almost certainly already mated... occurring this way commonly>
And for green clown goby, is there any way to tell male vs. female?
<yep... the one that talks less is the male>
And who tend to be bigger?
<that depends on your perspective...heehee. Ahhh... can be either, but usually female>
And the most worrying thing is that for the past 2 days, did not manage to get them to start eating yet.
<they do need very fine foods>
At the mean time I have been feeding live BBs and rotifers.
<excellent>
Hope they won't starve to death. Any suggestion who to get them to come out and eat
<yep... a couple hits off a bong. Err... I mean, in due time. The live plankton you are offering is temptation enough>
(they only move around within the Acro and only see one of them come out once at night)? Thanks in advance and have a good day..
Best regards, Edwin
<and kind regards to you too my friend. Anthony>

Clown/Goby Feeding and Majano questions
Greetings!
Three days ago, I added my first fish tenants to their new 30g home after five long weeks of cycling.  The True Percula and Citron Goby appear to be doing well, although the goby has adopted the upper heater suction cup as its perch, causing my wife to question the wisdom of my fish choice.  The only anomalous reading thus far was a brief ammonia spike of 0.2 after 24 hours, which was remedied by a 3g water change. I was unable to get either fish to eat flakes or pellets, and they let the Formula 1 frozen food sink to the bottom.  The LFS has brine shrimp, but I now know they are bereft of nutrition.  I did, however, seem to hit pay dirt with Sweetwater Zooplankton.  Both fish have nibbled at this (and my peppermint shrimp happily eat the rest).  My question is this:  is zooplankton a sufficient nutrient source for these fish?  I would still like to try Mysis shrimp, but have not yet purchased them.  I am more concerned about the goby, since I have seen it attempt to eat much less than the clown.  <  The plankton alone will not be sufficient although it is a very good food.  Try to give them a varied diet with as many different foods as possible.  They should take flakes after awhile but just be patient.>
Next question: I have a Majano problem that is primarily located on one piece of LR (about 2-3 pounds out of about 30 pounds total).  In addition to the Majano, I have noticed some tiny Aiptasia growing, as well. Unfortunately, my shrimp are altogether uninterested in helping me with the Aiptasia.  Would it be feasible to pull the piece of rock, nuke the small polyp Majano and Aiptasia with the hot Kalk mixture, rinse with my heated/aerated change water, and return to the tank?  Any idea how long it would take for those suckers to drop off?  Would the ensuing die-off be too great a bioload for my new inhabitants?  Should I just chuck the piece of rock in question?  There are about 3-4 of each type of pest located elsewhere in the tank, but at least 30 Majano on this rock and about a dozen Aiptasia.  <Make sure your shrimp are actual peppermints and not camels which are peppermint look-alikes.  If these are peppermints they should eat the Aiptasia in time.  You can find everything you need to know in the Majano here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/otherpstanemfaqs.htm
Best regards, Cody.>
Thank you again for all your assistance thus far.
JPM

Fang Blennies, Gobiosoma, Gobiodon
Will M. grammistes and M. atrodorsalis get along in the same tank?  Do these fish do as well alone as in a group?
<Alone. Not a good idea to mix any species, specimens of the Nemophini. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sabertoothblens.htm>
Also, I was contemplating a Cortez Red Head Goby.  If I can't afford to get more than one, should I wait?  Would two be enough?  I'm not interested in breeding them, just interested in their general health.
<This fish is fine singly or in its species company>
Last, I heard the Green Clown Goby occasionally picks on SPS corals from Scott Michael's book.  Any experience with these guys?
<Yes. And yes, they do... if have enough Acroporids present not a big problem. This is where and what they live on in the wild>
Would they make a good addition to a reef tank with lots of Dartfish, blennies, and other gobies?
<If there's enough food, not-aggressive types as tankmates, sure.>
Cheers,
Chris (aka newkie)
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Yellow Clown Goby question
I purchased a yellow clown Gobi about three weeks ago, and he seems to be nibbling on my polyps, and likes to rest on top of them all the time. Are my polyps going to die?
<It depends on how severely he's nibbling. It certainly is a strong possibility>
Since they are all closed up because he is on them constantly
<In time they will likely be gone>
Also when I put frozen or dry flake food he is not interested at all. Every where I've read they recommend this fish heavily for reef type systems. But none of the articles mention them eating polyps.
<Fish don't read. They are all individuals with individual personalities. No fish is truly reef safe nor a community fish. Variations from the norm occur frequently>
Thank you for your info.
<My pleasure! Hope that I've helped. David Dowless>

Clown Goby Chow...
Happy Holidays Wet Web Crew!
<And a great holiday season to you and yours! Scott F. with you here tonight!>
Just a quick question... I think I've decided on the fish for my new 20G reef. I'm thinking 2 Purple Firefish and 2 Clown Gobies.
<Be careful with the Firefish. Many times, when placed in pairs or groups, one fish will dominate the other(s), until he or she is the only one left! Unless you obtain a true mated pair (rare), or have a large tank with lots of rockwork to separate the fishes' territories, I'd keep one to a tank..>
It has been cycled with L/R for about 3 weeks now. However a week and a half ago I found a really skinny Mandarin at the pet store, so I brought him home. Put him in the tank and he quickly became the fattest mandarin I have ever seen.
<Great to hear that. A mandarin that eats is a joy to behold!>
So I took him back hoping he would have a better chance of surviving long enough to go to a new home.
I say this because now that I've been digging through your FAQ's on clown gobies I've seen that they too like to munch on critters in the substrate. Do you think the Mandarin would have depleted the clown gobies munchies? Or will he be fine with frozen Mysis and the likes?
<I think that it's more common to have a clown goby eat frozen and other prepared foods, such as Mysis, than it would be for a mandarin to do the same. You are right, though, as far as 'pod eating fishes, such as mandarins: In a small tank (I mean anything under 50 gallons), it would be problematic to have more than one to a tank, as the 'pod and infauna population simply would not be sufficient.>
Merry Christmas if we don't speak again before! Melinda
<Same to you, and I'll though in a Happy New Year at no extra charge!>

Stow away jackpot!
Hi Bob!
I thought I could ask you a question about a stow away that I recently picked up from Tropicorium from Romulus MI. I purchased a 4-5 in. Acropora tan with white tips about two weeks ago. Along for the ride was quite a few critters. I first noticed a couple of large crabs. One "fuzzy" brown with blue eyes and another solid white with black eyes. No big deal, they don't seem to be damaging the coral so I left them in. After a closer look with a flashlight at lights out I noticed not two crabs but 7, and a very small clown goby. I feel I got more than I bargained for. My question is how can I get my clown goby to feed. I have tried to use prime reef in a dropper above the coral, but the goby refuses to leave the branches. He's a beautiful fish and I would like hate to lose it to starvation. Any ideas?
<Try frozen Mysis shrimp and/or Seawater Zooplankton. Also, keep a close eye on that coral and the crabs.>
Best Wishes! Brad Stefanko
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>