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Diodogorgia nodulifera preferred foods
2/20/19
Hello crew! Hope this finds you well!
<And you Joanne>
I do have a question but also wanted to share some information about my
Diodogorgia nodulifera that will hopefully be helpful.
<Ah, good>
So, a few weeks ago I got a Diodogorgia frag as a "bonus" with an online
purchase.
<Ugh; I really wish some folks in the trade wouldn't do this>
I know that they are not photosynthetic, but I have had a lot of success
with various photosynthetic gorgonians so I felt I was up to the
challenge.
<Ahh!>
I placed it in an appropriate spot - good amount of water flow, not too
much light - and proceeded to attempt to feed it.
<Good>
Well, over the next few days I tried various filter feeding mixtures,
slurries, etc. and failed to get any feeding response whatsoever, even
though the gorgonian had all polyps extended. This was really starting
to worry me, but then I noticed that the gorgonian was snagging food
every time I fed the fishes! It turns out that the issue was food size,
i.e. it was ignoring tiny sizes but going for the larger pieces.
<Yes>
It will grab and eat bits of food up to about the size you would feed,
say, adult White Cloud Mountain minnows! It seems to do especially well
with flake food, as it is light and blows around the tank really well,
giving it multiple opportunities to feed. There seems to be an upper
limit on the size of pieces of solid food it can grab and ingest, but I
have seen it eat surprisingly large pieces of flake food. If an
especially large flake blows into the gorgonian, several polyps will
grab hold of it and gnaw on it until it (usually) blows away again.
Smaller flakes of approximately 1-5 mm it will just grab and swallow.
I feed the fish twice a day. Now that I know how it likes to feed, I
make sure there are some food particles that are the appropriate size
for the Diodogorgia. I estimate that about 25-30% of the polyps manage
to feed every time the fish are fed. Additionally, I have some Ricordeas
in the tank that are target fed a few times weekly with Calanus or
similar foods, so when I do that now I also give a squirt to the
Diodogorgia.
It looks well and healthy so far, time will tell. So, for my questions -
does EVERY polyp need to grab food, or is the food shared over the
colony?
<They share. Gorgonians are "rindkorallen"; have connected circulation>
I'm guessing the latter as there is that shared rind / skin covering the
animal but I'm not 100% sure on that.
<Oh; yes>
Second question, does this amount of food sound appropriate?
<Yes>
Like I said it looks healthy, polyps extended, no bad/decaying spots,
etc. but have not had it long enough to know for sure.
Thanks again for your advice, and I hope my story may be helpful to
others.
*Joanne White*
<Indeed; thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
Re: Diodogorgia nodulifera preferred foods
Hello Bob,
<Joanne>
Thanks for your encouraging words!
<Thank you!>
I would like to add one thing, so it doesn't look like I'm saying you
can just plunk one of these into a tank, throw in some fish food, and
everything will be fine. I also placed this gorgonian in a sort of
filter feeder sweet spot in my tank. Any food added to the tank is
concentrated and funneled past this area due to the configuration of the
surrounding rocks, etc. And the tank is on the small side, which has the
effect of
further concentrating the food. For example, if I had the same fish
bioload in a tank that was twice as large, the same amount of food would
be spread out over a much larger area, thus reducing the concentration.
These two things are very important in this situation. Change these, and
I would probably have to entirely rely on target feeding to keep this D.
nodulifera alive and healthy. If it hadn't been for this combination of
factors I might not have noticed it catching and eating the fish food,
etc etc.
I do wish it were this easy to figure out how to care for other NPS
corals! I think a lot of the lack of success in this area is due to not
understanding their feeding needs and/or not having their preferred food
available. Maybe a particular NPS gorgonian or soft coral feeds on
copepods, but only one or two specific types of copepods. Or some fussy
combination of food size, food type, and very narrow band of water flow
rate to be successful. I'm glad that D. nodulifera is pretty easy in
this respect but unfortunately that won't translate well to other
species.
*Joanne White*
<I do understand; and think others will better; with your further
explanation here. BobF>
Diodogorgia nodulifera advice
11/10/16
Hi Bob & Crew,
<Hey Nick>
You have been very helpful in the past so I was hoping you could once again
assist me with some advice.
<Let's see if we/I have some>
I have recently inherited a couple of what I believe to be D. nodulifera (one
red / one yellow) from a friends tank whose bicolor angel had developed a taste
for them. Within 24hours the yellow had around 60% of its polyps extended so I
have been target feeding with Vitalis soft coral food (micronised flake) but the
red has some tissue loss at the base and the tip
of one of the branches and has not extended any polyps as yet, from reading WWM
and anything else I can find it sounds as though this one may be a goner?
<Maybe; but I hate to give up... what have you tried so far? Additions of simple
sugar/s? Overdosing of iodide-ate?>
If you have any advice as to actions for saving it or indeed at what point I
should cut my losses and remove it I would be very grateful. (have read
conflicting reports of them releasing toxins when they die).
<More pollution than toxins w/ this genus>
I have placed them both in the most shaded areas I can find that still receive a
moderate amount of flow.
They have been in my friends tank for over a month and he was sold them with the
advice that they would need to be fed twice a week on soft coral food.
<Mmm; I'd feed more frequently... and/or have a VERY large and vigorous
refugium>
I have been reading up as much as possible on their husbandry requirements and
it seems there are many different opinions on feeding regimes varying from twice
per week up to continuously! (the gold standard I'm sure but not
achievable in my setup). I am planning to make my own food based on a recipe I
saw on the GARF website consisting of mysis/brine, flake, SeaChem ReefPlus
blended together and target fed. I was hoping that 1 feed per day would be
sufficient with this mix but wanted to get your expert opinion on regime and
recipe/alternative foods?
<I would definitely try the DIY recipe you list; and feed at least for minutes
every other day... WHEN polyps are open>
Seems like this is one of those species best left in the ocean for those without
an AZoo tank and I don't usually add anything to my tank without researching
first but given they were angel food otherwise thought it best to try and give
them a chance. Tank param.s listed below.
Thanks in advance
Nick
Tank param.s - 48"x18"x24" w/20g sump/fuge - Temp 25-26 C/ pH 8.1 / Ammo 0 /
Nitri 0 / Nitrate <5 / Phos undetectable / Calc 440 / KH 8 / Mag 1230
Livestock - various soft corals leathers, xenia, GSP, PS gorgs / CUC / 2 x
ocellaris clowns
<Please read re the Glucose, I2 mentioned above... and let's re-chat in a day or
two. Bob Fenner>
Re: Diodogorgia nodulifera advice
11/14/16
Hi Bob,
<Hey Nick>
Thanks for getting back to me. Since I first emailed I have had a bit of
a disaster, I made up some of my own food but unfortunately did so half
asleep and in a rush and inadvertently added somewhere between 3-4 times
the recommended dose of SeaChem Reefplus into the tank over the space of
an hour or so....
<Mmm; should be okay if done just the once>
I had just started reading up on iodine & glucose dosing as per your
advice and ironically the gorgonians seem to love the extra dose and the
red one now also opens up overnight, presumably because iodine makes up
part of the Reef Plus recipe?
<Likely a factor; yes>
The rest of my soft coral and the snails however have not reacted well.
I
noticed the leathers were looking a bit droopy and the star polyps had
not opened the following day but stupidly did not connect the dots until
yesterday morning, a full 48hours since I dosed, absolutely kicking
myself at the moment for this!
<Patience here>
Anyway I have added Polyfilter to the sump, performed 2 x 135l water
changes and about to do a third which in theory means I will have
replaced around 75% of the original 365l water volume, I also run
carbon. The corals have started to open up today but the snails are very
lethargic, I'm assuming it may be excess iodine or metals input by the
Reefplus?
<Again; likely so>
I have shipped my 2 strawberry conch off to the LFS who will hold them
for me until the tank stabilizes, couldn't find my Trochus and Nassarius
at the time unfortunately to do the same with them. I also have a tuxedo
urchin which I have left in place as it is seemingly unaffected by the
whole affair still actively grazing on the front glass. I'm hoping
everything
will recover and the damage has not already been done.
<Agreed>
I did not test the water immediately after the dosing but if there were
any spikes in chemistry all seems to have settled down now with
pH/DO/NH4/NO2/NO3/Alk/Calc/Mag/Iodine all back to normal ranges.
<Good>
Any advice on other measures I can implement to help rectify this would
be greatly appreciated.
<Just patience really. You've done all I would have given the
circumstances>
Many thanks,
Nick
<As many welcomes. BobF>
Re: Diodogorgia nodulifera advice 11/15/16
Thanks that re-assuring that I have done the right things. Clutching at
straws for other possible reasons for the slow recovery I came across a
couple of forum posts relating to contaminated carbon.
<Mmm; a possible co-reaction/series; yes... but there are other profound
interaction possibilities>
This lead me to wave a magnet over mine and some of the particles are
attracted to it, so I was wondering if this is normal or a potential
cause for concern?
<Mmm; well; there can be too much ferrous/iron content in systems. And
there are simple/r colorimetric assays (kits) for Fe +2,+3... I'd ask
your better LFS if they will do this/these tests for you. Otherwise,
you'll find the PolyFilter product turning a characteristic brown with
time here>
Again I'm sure I'm clutching at straws but thought it best to check as
the carbon went in the sump on the same day as the Reefplus. I use HR
Carbon as recommended by my LFS and which I have noticed you have
recommended in the past.
<Yes; a fine product>
Thanks again
Nick
<Easier said than done Nick; but do try to remain calm, stay the course
here. All should be well in a day or two.
Bob Fenner>
Red Gorgonian; hlth., fdg.
7/12/15
Hi All.
<Jo>
Four days ago I inherited a sun coral and red gorgonian in a nanoreef tank I
purchased on an auction site. The previous owner had lost interest and said I
was welcome to both corals, but suspected they were both on their way out. I run
a 225 litre sumped system, which is home to photosynthetic Gorgonia, xenia,
gsp's zoos, Acan and trumpet coral, the only fish in the
system is a linear blenny. Nitrates are at 5, phosphate at zero, kH at 10,
salinity 1.025 and temp at 26 degrees c. On putting the Gorgonia in the tank and
acclimating, it showed no polyp extension, over the last four days I
have target fed with Reef Roids, on each day more polyps have emerged,
<Yay!>
I have it in low light and moderate flow. As of this evening the gorgonian looks
as the attached pic. I have researched online and I have read that once 10% of
the polyps stop feeding death is imminent.
<Mmm; nah... As long as some are coming out, feeding, hope is not lost>
Is this correct or do you think looking at the pic I have a chance if I keep up
the same care?
<I think this looks like a very nice specimen indeed>
Thanks for your time. Joanne
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Re: Red Gorgonian 7/12/15
Thanks Bob :) I shall keep it up! is there anything else I can be feeding?
<Yes; quite a few possibilities; and some additional, related input. Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/gorgfdgfaqs.htm
I have ordered mysis, brine shrimp and oyster eggs for the sun coral, though I
imagine these will be too large particles for the gorgonian?
<Can be chopped up; prepared in ways to make more useful (in suspension); soaked
in nutritive solution/s....
BobF>
|
Sea fan disease ?
5/20/14
Dear WWM crew,
<Thierry>
My sea fan is showing symptoms of which I cannot find a description on the
Web.
<I see your pic...>
A bubble appears and stretches the tissue (yellow circles) and after a few
days, it pops and leaves the bare skeleton (red circle).
I cannot figure if it is a disease or a reaction due to water parameters,
light level, current or something else.
<My guess, bet is on the middle one>
Do you have a suggestion on how to deal with this ?
<I'd first and foremost look into concentrations of Ca and relative Mg, HPO4
and Fe (3)...
Light, not so important w/ this color/specimen....
Do you use supplements? What sorts of foods employed here; refugium?>
Thank you
Best regards
Thierry
Switzerland
<And you; Bob Fenner> |
|
Re: Sea fan disease ?
5/27/14
Dear Bob,
<Thierry>
Thank you for your answer.
<Welcome>
I guess I had messed up my last Ca measurement because it was down to 280 !
<Yikes! And I'd be checking (of course) Mg and Alkalinity>
The cause was the CO2 pipe of my calcium reactor which was plugged.
<Happens... hopefully just vinegar, acetic acid will remove the clog>
I have now made a 20% water change and I am raising my Ca with the reactor
plus some additional Kalkwasser.
<Good>
I do add supplements but since my dosing system died I do it by hand and I
am certainly not as regular as the pump was.
Food is either frozen Artemia or small pellets and occasional dried
plankton.
One quick question on this : I use high quality Artemia, not the cheap ones
found in larger pet stores. I melt the cube in a glass containing aquarium
water and then I empty everything in the tank assuming the
"juice" will contain smaller particles for the corals. Is this a bas idea ?
Should I rinse the melted Artemia ?
<I'd use your observation as guide here. IF your gorgonian/s are feeding, I
would not be concerned. Be sure to direct laminar flow to/toward them>
Once my parameters are back on track, I will give you some feedback so that
this can possibly serve other reefers.
<Again; I thank you>
Best regards
Thierry
<And you, Bob Fenner>
|
"Leptogorgia sp" 10/14/13
Hey Crew!
I have been at WetWeb for some time this morning, and cannot find info
on this species; "Leptogorgia sp" I bought one 4 days ago and have
followed the sites "directions" but it remains closed. Can you provide
me with a link ?
Thanks!
Pam
<Mmm, had to search the WWM site myself:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gorgsysfaqs.htm?h=Leptogorgia+sp
Don't know much re the genus, its care/use in captivity. What little I
gleaned from a cursory review of the Net shows it doesn't typically do
(as) well; even amongst the not-so suitable gorgonians period. Bob
Fenner>
Re: "Leptogorgia sp 10/14/13
Although I was aware that this particular coral requires target feedings
and specialized care (strong flow / low light)
I prepared for the challenge.
<Ah good. We had a very nice write in today re "Blue berry" Gorg.
success.
Look for its posting in the AM>
But, if this coral doesn't even open, there's no way to feed it,
correct?
<Mmm, yes; but you may be able to elicit a feeding response through
introduction of food, liquid from same... from changing the colony's
orientation, amount of current...>
I was wondering why it was so inexpensive ($15.00)!
Thanks Bob, I'll keep trying!
Pam
<Good. B>
Re: Leptogorgia virgulata, hey Bob!
10/19/13
Hey Bob,
Just wanted you to know, that the Leptogorgia virgulata coral is
feeding!
Your advise to blow food in its direction worked!
Within 30 minutes of doing so, it opened up!
Thank you !
Pam Anderson
<Ah, congratulations on your success! B>
|
A link for Bob Fenner 10/22/13
Hi Bob!
You told me you weren't very familiar with Leptogorgia virgulata,
So here's a link.
Just a few tidbits of info.
http://www.dnr.sc.gov/marine/sertc/octocoral%20guide/Leptogorgia_virgulata.htm
Pam
<Ah, thank you. B>
|
Cautious Success with Guaiagorgia sp.
10/14/13
Good Afternoon Crew,
<Steve>
Thanks for all you do. In the last 7 years I have grown in skill
and understanding through WWM and would like to share some success with
a Blueberry Gorgonian.
<Ahh!>
The specimen I purchased from the LFS here in San Diego was a vibrant,
healthy looking specimen in a typical sea fan spread. The polyps were
open at the store, and have been regularly here in my 75 gallon square
tank the past three months.
The Gorg is placed mid-way down in my tank (30"x30"x18") about 16"
on center form a Vortech MP40 running at 35% on "Tidal Swell". I
have two MP40s on the back, each running at relatively low volume and
anti-syncing.
The "Lagoon" program is used overnight.
In looking at the morphology of my specimen it was obvious that most of
the polyps faced one direction, perpendicular to the fan. Based on the
limited success of many reef keepers I decided NOT to follow the norm
and pointed the polyps away from direction of water flow. I think this
is a key element in my success.
<I agree>
All new growth to date (estimated 15%), both on the tips of the branches
and on the "truck" near the base, have been away from the current. It
seems to follow that although this specimen requires a brisk current to
keep the branches free of debris, the mouths generally can only catch
food in the more tranquil direction. If the specimen is oriented
"backwards" from the start, feeding may be impossible.
The polyps are always open in the evenings... and most days, but can be
enticed easily if closed with a small amount of Cyclop-eeze in the
water.
Currently I am feeding Hikura Daphnia w/ Cyclop-eeze w/ H20 Life Marine
Fusion. The new polyps are very, very small, so the "shotgun" approach
to different feed sizes are an attempt to satisfy all, It appears to be
working.
This is a mature tank, with ample copepod production to satisfy two
Mandarins without supplemental feeding. I believe this fact plays an
important role as well, especially for the smallest polyps.
<I concur here as well>
During feeding, I slow the Vortechs to 15% on Reef Crest. This is just
enough to keep water moving randomly and let the "missed" food
recirculate.
I use a large baster to target feed, but only trickle the food out and
gently push it through the fan. In my experience these polyps will close
up at from direct "blasts". This is easy to see when you use an empty
baster.
I practiced feeding "empty" a few times to see how much flow the polyps
could handle and still grab the food. It is not much!
I feed twice a day, religiously.
I hope these notes further the cause. I am "tech heavy" so an equipment
list and parameters follow...
Steve
Equipment/Parameters:
30"x30"x18" tank
24 gallon refugium /Chaeto (reverse lighting cycle)
3" DSB (med grain)
110lbs live rock
Apex Controller
pH x 2, ORP, Temp x 2, probes
Dual Ecoxotic Canons
Karollin 1502 Calcium Reactor
Overnight Kalk drip (to counteract the CO2).
Precision Marine Skimmer (runs 24/7)
ATO
Temp: 76.9 - 77.5
pH: 8.00 - 8.18
SG: 1.026
ORP: 310 - 330 (day/night)
Nitrates: 0
Calcium: 420ppm
Magnesium: 1260ppm
Alk/DKH: 9.3
Lights: 12hrs (inclusive of 150 min ramp time at each end)
Lunar: Apex module
<Thank you for sharing! Bob Fenner>
Re: Cautious Success with Guaiagorgia sp. 11/8/2013
Good afternoon Crew... after an additional month of observations an
update on my Blueberry Gorg.
<Hey Steve>
As other reef keepers have experienced over time, my polyps started to
extend less often, and for shorter duration. Water parameters have
remained consistent, as well as feeding frequency and variety. So I
started examining the effects of light intensity,
My first observation was that the polyps that were furthest from my
light source (dual Ecoxotic canons) seemed to open sooner and longer
that the polyps closer to the light source. Knowing that this species
comes from a range down to about 75 feet or so, and often on sloped
reefs, I decided to shield the Gorg to create an imbalance in the
lighting, skewing it towards
the 460nm range.
Initially, I put a third of the specimen in complete shade with two
thirds exposed to the 460nm cannon (I blocked the10,000k). This initial
step yielded an immediate improvement. After a week, the third that
resided in total shade started to open regularly but not with the same
vigor as the 460nm portion which was back to "normal". I have since
placed the entire Gorg under the 460nm (again, no 10k) and the growth
and polyp extension has resumed. Polyps are now open appx. 20 hours per
day.
So in sum, here are my novice observations;
- Have a mature, copepod producing tank.
- Place is a diffused, moderately strong, random current.
- Face the polyps away from the primary direction of flow.
- Effect reversing tidal flow if possible.
- Feed a large variety of food sizes.
- Let the food float into the polyps, don't blast with a pipette.
- Beware of even moderate, 10k+ lighting sources.
I feel fortunate that my light sources are so narrow, it makes the
shielding fairly simple. I can see how in standard lighting systems with
48" T5s let's say, it would be difficult to create the right conditions.
<Yes; I would insert my usual statement here that most systems
are overlit, too intense and too long duration; compared with naturally
occurring parameters>
Often I've read how keeper's Gorgs stop opening and a quest for a "more
enticing" food ensues. What I believe now is that the deterioration is
due to the physical environment, and the Gorg's inability to adapt to
typical tank lighting. More light... more stress...no polyp extension...
no food...and the death spiral starts.
Temp: 76.9 - 77.5
pH: 8.00 - 8.18
SG: 1.026
ORP: 310 - 330 (day/night)
Nitrates: 0
Calcium: 420ppm
Magnesium: 1260ppm
Alk/DKH: 9.3
Lights: 12hrs (inclusive of 150 min ramp time at each end)
Lunar: Apex module
Happy reefing!
Steve
<I thank you again for sharing. Will update/addend your prev. post. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Cautious Success with Guaiagorgia sp. 12/26/13
UPDATE:
Closing in on 6 months with the Blueberry Gorg and we are thriving here
in Southern California!
<Great news!>
This winter's calendar included a two week trip out of the country and
my "fish tender" failed me at the last minute. So the Gorg (and other
species) had to survive on just a couple of frozen food cubes every few
days provided by my brother.
With no target feeding and a lack of personal attention, I resigned
myself finding a decaying Gorg upon return... Ugh. Happily, although
initially a bit unhappy with semi-closed polyps, the Gorg began to open
as usual within 24 hours and feeding/growth continues.
The more I observe this species the more I'm convinced that failure to
maintain health is due to the physical parameters of their environment
and the maturity of the tank. Now that the lighting and current is
dialed in, I am only target feeding a few days a week using ova, Coral
Fusion and Cyclop-eeze. There are some sections of the fan that receive
no target feeding at all (blocked pipette access) and they continue to
thrive.
So my recommendation continues to be for those with Blueberry
issues... stop focusing solely on the types of food. Reduce your
lighting, create moderate random flow, and regular (daily not required)
target feedings. A mature tank is a must!
Happy Reefing!
Steve
<Thank you Steve. Bob Fenner>
Ongoing Blueberry Gorg Success - Update
2/21/14
Good Evening Bob,
<Steve... your files... are an order of magnitude too large for our mail
server. Please>
Things continue to go well here in San Diego!
<Ah yes... I live in Mira Mesa>
Thought I would share a couple of pictures about 8 months along. I
estimate about 25% growth at this point, approximately 7" in diameter.
[image: Inline image 1]
These types of polyps, with the longer tentacles, typically form in high
flow areas...
[image: Inline image 2]
Thanks again for helping us with this truly fascinating hobby!
Steve
<Thank you for sharing.... just smaller pic files going forward! BobF>
|
Appears to be a Hydrozoan at the yellow pointer
Re: Ongoing Blueberry Gorg Success - Update
8/21/14
Good Evening Bob,
<Fresh as a daisy this AM Steve>
14 month update on the Blueberry Gorg... Living strong and thriving here
in SD. The specimen hasn't seen directly "daylight" from my Ecoxotic
canons in almost 7 months. Once a week direct feeding to maintain...
twice a week to promote growth. Getting my H2O from Scripps
these days with no side
effects.
<The usual cautionary note to you, others, to store this fresh, real
seawater for a good week or two (in the dark preferably) or bleach,
dechlorinate it ahead of use. At times; real trouble.>
Cheers,
Steve
<And you. Thanks for the update. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Sharing a Yellow Finger
Gorgonian Success Story 1/27/12
Hello Bob and Crew,
Instead of asking a question this time, I wanted to share a success
story.
<Yay!>
My husband has a Yellow Finger Gorgonian at the center of his display
tank.
When we first received it, it was a beautiful bright yellow with
the red dots and white polyps. We didn't see the polyps come out
much, but we were feeding the tank daily and some would slowly but
sporadically come out.
Then it started to turn brown very quickly. The polyps stopped coming
out.
I knew they needed to be fed often, but somehow missed in my initial
readings that each polyp needs to be target fed a variety of foods. So,
I got a dropper and began target feeding daily with either
Roti-Feast or Oyster Feast. At first there was only one
polyp out on one of the tips and the majority of the Gorgonian had
turned shrively and brown. I knew from what I had read that the chances
of it living at this point were slim, but I was not going to give up. I
target fed the one polyp as well as the other polyps that were
retracted. I'm not too concerned about water quality as we use
AquaC EV-180 skimmers in our tanks that do an amazing job as well as
lots of corals, pods, a starfish and filter feeders who all benefit
from this target feeding as well. Anyway, the next day I dropped some
drops of phyto plankton in and waited 10 minutes as this is what I do
to signal the Sun Corals(Tubastrea sp.) in my tank that it's
feeding time. To my delight there were about 5 polyps out at this
point. I target fed them and the rest of the gorgonian as well. I
followed this procedure on a daily basis for several weeks and now the
Gorgonian doesn't even need to have the Phyto-Plankton drops to
open although I do add it to the daily cocktail. By the time the
moonlights come on, she knows it's feeding time, and very quickly
becomes entirely covered with huge white wide spread polyps waiting to
be fed each day. During the daylight cycle, there are polyps out as
well, but nothing like when it's close to feeding time. I mix up
the daily cocktail sometimes putting flake in it as well, I drop some
Selcon drops in the cocktail as well. The Gorgonian began regaining
it's yellow color from the base up, and is now once again a bright
yellow with the red dots all the way through to the tips with the tips
not completely recovered just yet but getting there. I am so happy I
took the time to nurse this poor starving beauty back to it's
magnificent self, and I urge others to do the same and hang in there. I
feel very bad about my mis-step but feel a great comfort knowing
I've saved it. I hope anyone else in this position has the same
luck.
Jenny
<Ahh, thank you for sharing. BobF>
Losing Gorgonian Battle (A very
common tale) -- 12/14/10
Hi all - Chris K here again with a gorgonian question.
<<Hey there Chris -- Eric here today>>
I have a red gorgonian, although the LFS owner could not tell me what
kind
<<This is likely Diodogorgia nodulifera, collected from the
tropical Western Atlantic -- and best left to experienced hobbyists
with systems designed and dedicated to such
azooxanthellate/non-photosynthetic creatures>>
- she did say that as long as I kept it near a powerhead I should have
no problem.
<<This was/is exceedingly poor advice here. These animals do
require strong water flow (though diffuse enough not to blast tissue
from the skeleton'¦as a simple powerhead can do), but there is
much more to providing for the long term health of non-photosynthetic
species such as this. Though maybe not as eye-catching, there are
zooxanthellate/photosynthetic species of Gorgonian that can be kept
with relative ease in my experience (a Pterogorgia species often
described/sold as Purple Ribbon Gorgonian comes to mind), but the
majority of Gorgonians offered require expert knowledge and care, in my
opinion>>
When will I ever learn?
<<You're learning now'¦I hope [grin]>>
To make a long story short (unusual for me) I have had it for months
and it looked fine.
<<This is typical'¦ Assuming water quality is up to par
and predation is not an issue, these organisms generally waste slowly
-- from starvation>>
Within the past few weeks it is obviously having problems. The
"red" is sloughing off leaving a black skeleton underneath
which started from the bottom and is slowly working its way up to the
top.
<<Again, very typical of how these organisms decline>>
It does still have white polyps that protrude from the top. It is kept
in the middle of the aquarium - it came already attached to its own
base rock. It is near a power head so that it gets a nice strong
current
<<A strong oscillating flow is best -- a too strong laminar blast
from a powerhead can prove detrimental>>
and I feed Rod's Food.
<<Insufficient'¦ The vast majority of these organisms
are lost due to slow starvation. They require target feedings of
'each polyp' with suitable foods (e.g. - freshly hatched
Artemia nauplii, live and/or frozen rotifers, phytoplankton, and the
like) to do well, or sufficient bulk feeding of the system to provide
same -- though the latter requires a system designed for such, and a
hobbyist ready to deal with the problems such bulk system feeding can
spawn>>
Can it heal and be saved?
<<Under the right care/conditions'¦>>
What if anything can I do at this point - or is it beyond hope?
<<Depends'¦ Are you ready/willing to- '¦culture
your own foods? '¦set up a drip feeder? '¦provide
multiple weekly target feedings? '¦deal with the effects heavy
feeding will have on your system? '¦invest in more suitable
water flow devices? '¦perhaps redesign your system altogether?
The point I'm trying to make is that these corals require
specialized care and knowledge, and are not for the casual or beginning
hobbyist'¦in 'my' opinion. Your experience here is not
unique, and it's likely you will not be able to save this specimen.
But hopefully the experience will reaffirm the necessity to
research/learn the needs of your purchases, beforehand>>
Thanks as always,
Christine K
<<And as always, happy to share'¦ Eric Russell>>
Re: Losing Gorgonian Battle (A very common tale) -
12/16/10
Hi Eric!
<<Hey Chris!>>
Yes, I am learning.
<<Never a doubt [grin]>>
The first lesson is that no matter how knowledgeable the LFS owner
appears - I need to stop falling for it!
<<Indeed'¦the onus is 'always' on you, to do
your homework>>
What would be a more suitable water flow device?
<<Some of the 'propeller' flow devices available (Tunze
Stream, Vortech, etc.), of a suitable size for your system. The
'controllable' devices will provide the surge/flow oscillation
desired. Though for a system of azooxanthellate creatures a Tunze
Wavebox would provide for some very nice water movement. Be
prepared'¦none of these come cheap! A less expensive
alternative could be to utilize the 'non-controllable'
propeller devices available (for instance, a couple of the
'standard' Koralia propeller pumps) and place two opposing
pumps on timers to switch flow direction every 'few
hours'>>
- is there something that I can buy
<<Yup>>
- or do I have to make it?
<<Not these days, though not all that long ago some hobbyists
were doing just that>>
Would Roti-Feast work until I could begin to cultivate my own food?
<<Maybe'¦can only try and see'¦but simple
'frozen' Rotifers and Baby Brine Shrimp may serve as well. Just
be sure that 'each polyp' receives/accepts food>>
How do you set up a "drip feeder" for a gorgonian?
<<A container to hold the 'food''¦ Some airline
tubing and a device to control flow'¦ Some way to
'mix' the contents of the container to keep it in suspension
(those low-rpm motors used on some Kalkwasser stirrers do a dandy job
of this)'¦ A search of the WEB will no doubt turn up
plans/other methods re. But for a single specimen as you have, target
feeding is a much simpler way to go>>
I understand that it is most likely too late to save my current
specimen, but as long as there are white polyps protruding from it, I
am sure going to try...I would appreciate any help you could give me or
anyplace that you could direct me....
As always,
Chris K
<<Try also a Google search of the Net for 'azooxanthellate
aquarium systems.' Good luck! EricR>>
Gorgonian Feeding -- 04/12/10
I recently sent to you a question about feeding a recently purchased
yellow gorgonian.
<<Okay>>
It has finally opened up after over a month in my 90 gal reef
aquarium,
<<Mmm'¦this is a long time for these voracious feeders
to go 'without'>>
but I no longer have your info on the suggested diet.
<<Did you try looking here and among the associated links?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gorgfdgfaqs.htm
>>
I believe you mentioned soaking flake food with some sort of liquid
feed and using a dropper to feed the open polyps?
<<'Target' feeding is suggested, yes'¦and
'crushed' flake foods soaked in a vitamin/HUFA supplement like
Selcon can be utilized but is not the 'best' and may not even
be accepted. Other 'fine' prepared foods can be tried like
those intended for filter feeders and even those for fish
larvae'¦but do also try 'natural' foods like
shrimp/prawn and oyster eggs (both can be found on line if not
available locally) as well as live phytoplankton. Feed sparing at first
until you can determine which foods the Gorgonian is capturing and
actually ingesting, to avoid simply polluting your tank. Cheers,
EricR>>
"Purple fuzzy sea fan" question
11/10/08 Hello, <Hello, Jessy here> I purchased a
new sea fan a couple days ago and I have a few questions about
it. I am pretty sure it is non-photo synthetic but maybe you
could verify that for me. I have attached pictures. I have been
searching the internet for a positive identification but I can
not find anything like it. It has pale yellow skin with a
deep purple colored polyp. I have a photosynthetic Caribbean
gorgonian and a non-photosynthetic yellow finger gorgonian and
they are doing well. <Great choices. They are the easiest
gorgonians to care for> They eat Cyclop-eeze and rotifers and
even the small piece of Mysis. My new sea fan has much smaller
polyps then the other two. According to the store where I
purchases the feed it phyto every once in a while but I have read
many places sea fans do not eat phyto. <Advice like that from
stores makes me very very angry. Gorgs cannot live on phyto.>
They said they have had it for a while and it was fully open and
healthy looking. I tried feeding it rotifers, Cyclop-eeze and
crushed flake food. It appears to have eaten this but some of the
larger pieces it lets go. It did not eat as aggressively as my
other two. Do you have any suggestions for feeding or thoughts on
the phyto? <Its a great supplement for all kinds of corals,
including gorgonians, but in no way is it enough to sustain this
species.> I find Sea fans and gorgonians amazing and want to
get as many as I can in my reef. <I agree, I love gorgs as
well and have kept many in my tanks. This species is not very
hardy in a captive system. I fear you may only be able to keep
this specimen for a time (months maybe) before it succumbs to
starvation. You are doing well by feeding multiple foods,
you can try adding a few of these foods I've had success
with. Prawn eggs (great for your yellow finger gorg), Oyster Eggs
(Reef Nutrition has a great new product, Oyster Feast), Coral
Frenzy, and crushed flake foods. You should be target feeding and
making sure they get a good variety of food. Please if you get
more gorgs, stay away from the non-photosynthetic kind unless you
have a dedicated system and are well versed in the care for these
animals. And for the record, never get a blueberry gorgonian.
They won't live even with the special feeding I've given
them. A good reference for types of gorgs that are proven to
survive in captivity http://www.garf.org/GORG03/WINTERGORG.html
This piece is beautiful and I want it to thrive. As always thanks
for all your help and sharing you experience in this matter.
<Good luck. I don't want to sound all doom and gloom, but
you will find that the smaller the polyps the less chance you
have at keeping the gorg long term.> Kind Regards,
Jeff
<Regards, Jessy>
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Deep Sea Yellow Gorgonian - 06/07/06
I was just wondering how you think a Deep Sea Yellow Gorgonian a.k.a.
Orange Finger or Sea Rod (Diodogorgia sp.) would do in a 75 gallon tank
with a 3 inch sand bed, 3 Maxi-Jet 1200 powerheads, and a 300 watt PC
lighting? I have an AquaC Remora Pro skimmer and 2 Emperor
400 filters. Thanks, Jon <<Mmm...how dedicated are you
to keeping this specimen alive? This creature is
non-photosynthetic, meaning you will need to feed it directly with live
phytoplankton. Can be done...but requires diligence on your
part to keep it fed. Sadly, most specimens are doomed to
slow starvation in the average aquarist's tank (if your in to
gorgonians, the photosynthetic Purple Ribbon Gorgonian {Pterygorgia
sp.} makes a hardy tank specimen). The presence of a large,
mature refugium would also be of benefit. Otherwise, what
you list sounds fine but do place the gorgonian where it will receive
subdued lighting to help prevent algae growth. Have a read
here for some husbandry tips re this species: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2002/toonen.htm
Regards, EricR
Blue polyp gorgonian care 10/21/03 Hi Anthony,
<cheers, my friend> Thanks for answering my questions about my
blue polyp gorgonian ( Acalycigorgia ). I do have a couple of remaining
questions if you would be so kind. <my/our pleasure> Would the
Selcon soaked Mysis be a better food than the Cyclop-Eeze? Would you
alternate? <Selcon is a very good supplement all ways around
(fishes, corals, anemones, etc) - please continue to use here. But as
nutritious as mysids are for many animals, I suspect they are way too
large for gorgonian polyps here. Better for larger polyped animals and
many fishes. Continue with Cyclop-Eeze> When I frag it can I use any
old superglue that I get at the hardware store, or is there a marine
type of superglue? <DIY superglue is fine... just be sure to use the
thick gel for ease of application> When I add the refugium on this
tank, will there still be a need for a plankton reactor? <that
depends on the style of fuge you set up and how strict you are about
keeping it safe from plankton predators (no shrimps, crabs, fishes,
corals, etc in it)> Will the zooplankton population in the fuge, and
my daily feedings be enough for this gorgonian to thrive? <quite
possibly... install as large a refugium as possible: 20-40% the display
size of you can> Thanks again for your help. There are a countless
number of fish and corals that are still living because of WWM. Peace
<and peace to you in kind :) Anthony> Goin' For A
Gorgonian! Good afternoon Scott, <Hi there!> I hope you had a
great turkey day!!! <Typical...Ate w-a-a-y to much...!> Well
Scott a got a question for you. I just brought a yellow
gorgonian!! <Sounds nice!> And I was wondering, I have a bottle
of Selcon its that good feed for my gorgonian, or should I buy some
Reef plus instead and feed once a week??? Thank you <Well, if
you're referring to one of the Diodogorgia species (like D.
nodulifera, which is frequently called the "Yellow Gorgonian"
in the hobby, then feeding is very important. You really want to use
plankton-like foods to feed these animals. Selcon is a great enrichment
for many foods, but it is not really a substitute "food", in
my opinion. I'd utilize a preparation like Liquid Life's
"BioPlankton", or Frozen Cyclop-Eeze. They do require a
pretty high level of care, or they will typically waste away in
captivity. Do a little research on the 'net to verify the species
that you have, and then give the animal a lot of attention, and you may
experience some success...Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Gorgonian Grub Hello Scott, <Hi there!> I
brought some Liquid Life BioPlankton today from my L.F.S. and I started
with one pump for my 45 gallon tank!!! I've read in
some web pages that I should pump every other day, what do you think?
It does not say in the bottle. <I'd tend to agree with that
advice; although I'd make sure that you're keeping up the water
quality in this tank. Do monitor the water chemistry, to assure that
everything is up to par. You certainly don't want to pollute the
water. Also, you may want to check on the net regarding specific
applications for this product. Liquid Life, USA's owner, Ed
Ramirez, is a nice guy who will be able to give you some good pointers
on its use. Bon Apetit! Regards, Scott F.>
Flower Anemone Baby 2/25/04 Cheers Crew, One
again, the website is great and the information has brought peaceful
sleep to me more than once, <Ahhh... good to hear!> but I've
got two quick questions. In my large reef tank I recently
brought in (post quarantine) a purple sea whip and golden sea
rod. <hmmm... I'm content with the purple whip, but
wonder/suspect the golden rod is azooxanthellate (night feeder) and as
such, doomed most likely to starve to death in the next 6 months or
so> Mounted them w/epoxy to small rocks to get above the sand, all
polyps are out and healthy. My question is I have an
upstream refugium and a 6" DSB, is there any thing else that my
benefit them food wise other than the occasional Artemia wash and the
chopped krill/seafood mix I feed to the larger corals?
<occasional feedings of phyto like DTs brand phytoplankton> Also,
just noticed a baby flower anemone--e. crucifier (@3/4" dia.),
while feeding my colony of these anemones, is there anything to do for
it besides let it live and grow. <target feeding will
help tremendously> It is attached just below the far edge of the
mother's disk. It was quite an amazing site to find, I
guess I must be doing something right for the tank, best wishes to all,
Joe Bales <kindly, Anthony>
Feeding gorgonians and filter feeders Hello I have
just added to my 155 gal tank some finger corals, gorgonians,
mushrooms, some Featherdusters, I have a plate coral, and some other
anemones. All these are from the Atlantic side of panama in central
America. I also have a Atlantic blue tang and 3 snappers. I added this
in the past weekend. My polyps 2 of them don't seem to be very
well. What should I be feeding them I was reading in your book that
they filter feed and have to few days a week give them food. Should I
buy those bottles they sell at the stores I think I saw one from Kent
marine called Micro vert that feeds inverts its liquid style. And
zooplankton what should I do? << I think all types of plankton
foods like that are very beneficial to corals. Live plankton
better than bottled plankton, but all plankton is
good. Also, lots of light. >> Thank you much
<< Blundell >>
Feeding Diodogorgia - 4/14/05 Hey Guys.
<Hi. Paul helping out today> I need some help. <What we
do here.> I got a Yellow Finger Gorgonian Coral a few days
back, and I need some help feeding it. <OK> I saw on
GARF.org the following instructions <You could always call
GARF. They are quite helpful Support (208) 344-6163>
INGREDIENTS: Flake fish food - 1 tablespoon
SeaChem Reef Plus - 4 tablespoons Fresh water - 1/4 cup Soak the flake
food in the Reef Plus for one hour and then add the fresh water. Puree
the mixture in a blender for several minutes. After you allow the
mixture to set for several minutes you can pour the smallest particles
off with the water. The larger particles will settle to the bottom of
the glass and they can be used to feed the Gorgonians. I have no
idea as to how to actually "feed" the coral. <I
would use a syringe (without the needle, of course) or a small turkey
baster or baby
snot ball, and suck up a small amount of food and actually
squirt around the extended polyps. Try with flow (pumps and skimmers)
off first for 5-10 minutes then turn them on. I would feed once every
three days or so.> Do I feed it inside the tank?
<Absolutely> Remove it? <If it is easy you could
but I would not> I do not know. Any help would be
appreciated. <Hopefully I have helped. Please do take this
opportunity to learn from this situation, and be sure to do as much
research as you possible can before purchasing to save your bank
account and yourself extra effort. Thanks for being part of it all.
~Paul>
Feeding a orange finger gorgonian I recently purchased a
Large Orange Finger Gorgonian (Diodogorgia nodulifera) and a small red
one. I just read in my book that this are non-photosynthetic and
require feeding. I have never kept a non-photosynthetic coral and do
not no what to feed it. What should if feed it and how should I go
about giving the food to it. Any help would be appreciated I do not
want to starve this beautiful creatures. >> Something in the way
of a "mash" of meaty animal material is what most folks use.
Develop some sort of process of blending a bunch (as in a blender)
material that you can freeze/store... defrost every other or third
day... Turn off your filters, but not powerheads...(best on a timer)
for a good fifteen minutes, and use a turkey baster (when the
animal's polyps are extended) and gently wash the material in the
gorgonians direction... Does this make sense? Bob Fenner
Sea Fan selection, feeding Bob, what do you think of the Sea
Fan. ( I mean the chance of survival in a home tank) Also, what do they
feed on? Thanks. >> Some species do okay (Pseudopterygorgia spp.
are almost standard offerings in western Europe for instance)... need
to be collected and shipped carefully... Some are filter feeders, some
are photosynthetic... Maybe read up about Sea Fans, aka Gorgonians on
my site: www.WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner
Gorgonian problem help!!!! Hi Bob! I Hope you can help. I
have a orange gorgonian I purchased from the Flying Fish. I'm not
sure of its name, but it has white polyps and about seven inches high
and across. It was doing great at first. I have it in a good water flow
area kind of high in the aquarium. I have a 29 gallon tank with power
compacts. The gorgonian hasn't shown its polyps in a month and is
starting to shed its outer skin exposing its skeleton. I moved it all
over the aquarium thinking it was light . Nothing seems to help. I do
regular water changes Ph 8.2 Alkalinity is at 2.5 and I fed it brine
shrimp. I'm afraid it deteriorating will harm my other corals and
few gobies? Any suggestions? Liz XXXX@yahoo.com <Hmm, actually...
this is not likely a photosynthetic species... likely a Diodogorgia
species... and you should try other foodstuffs... Most importantly
one/some of the "phytoplankton" prep.s sold for the purpose
(like DT's...), administered to your system water... during
different times of day... with the pumps turned off to the filters (not
the non-filter pumps though) for a good fifteen minutes... And yes, sea
fans, gorgonians can prove toxic to all other life if/when they
"fall apart"... you may want to remove this specimen (in a
bag with water in it, w/o lifting it into the air)... to another
system, isolated... Sometimes the "bad parts" of the
"rind" of these animals/colonies can be excised to save the
remainder... Please read over the "Gorgonian" section posted
on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com and associated FAQs files as
well... and do endeavor to get the name, know the basic husbandry of
the animals you utilize ahead of their acquisition going forward. Bob
Fenner>
Sea Whip Hi WWM Crew- <cheers, Anthony Calfo in your
service> We purchased two sea whips (or what the LFS said were sea
whips) they look like branches, one is red and one is orange with red
spots. <alas... the are challenging aposymbiotic
(non-photosynthetic) species. Best kept in a species specific tank
without other cnidarians (corals, anemones, gorgonians, etc). They need
heavy feeding (perhaps live phytoplankton for you to culture or build a
phyto reactor) and strong water flow> After searching your web site
and your book, but we read a lot about sea fans. But these don't
have the interconnecting branches that the sea fans do. <too
many species and genera to describe, but the care (unknown as much of
it is) and level of difficulty is still quite similar> Could you
advise about the care of sea whips, <please do read a bit more
here if you haven't already. Still... not much is known about their
long term care. A challenging creature indeed. A shame that they are so
inexpensive and tempting: http://www.WetWebMedia.com/seafanfa.htm>
and whether or not they are toxic like sea whips if they die.
<likely moderate to very> Are they photosynthetic?
<no> Are they filter feeders? <yes> Or do you have to
hand feed? <lot s of feeding indeed... phyto reactor or
fishless refugium would be best> My mom found your web site and
bought your book and now she quotes you at the fish store and the owner
knows you by name, "But Bob Fenner says..." Your web site
provides so much helpful information. <agreed... he is a wonderful
living and published resource for our beautiful hobby> Thank
you-Elaine <with kind regards, Anthony>
Yellow Finger Gorgonian Hi there Bob - just a quick question
for you, if you don't mind. <Anthony Calfo... AKA coral boy, in
your service> Diodogorgia nodulifera is predatory and
non-photosynthetic so I'm just wondering - if light is not required
by this coral and it can get rid of algae by shedding a mucous
layer, <well... not exactly, bud. It can shed waste products
and some nuisance algae to an extent through mucus tunics. However,
shedding excessive and unnatural growths of nuisance algae is not a
primary function of mucus tunics... waste removal is> does it
actually matter whether it receives bright light or dim light? <very
good question. It is likely that if nuisance algae is not a concern or
problem in the tank (causing an undue burden on resources to purge it),
then residence in a more brightly lit spot will be little harm> Is
placement an issue beyond putting it in an area of strong
current? <very good... strong current is key and for many
Gorgonids...laminar flow> The reason I ask is because people seem to
do well enough with corals like Tubastrea in shaded and in well lit
areas and that particular coral doesn't even have the same capacity
to rid itself of algae. <agreed... although Tubastrea
naturally occurs (say 10-20%) on brightly lit portions of the reef.
Such animals simply are not as well adapted to fend nuisance algae IF
they develop. So the key here is to run a tight ship and don't let
nuisance algae establish! <G>> I recently acquired the Diogorgia and have it quite high in the tank although not directly
under a 150 Watt metal halide. Your advice eagerly anticipated......
Simon Sleigh <do consider buying or building a phytoplankton
reactor. Also know that if this animal is not in a species tank, but in
a mixed reef aquarium with mostly autotrophic animals, that one is
going to suffer likely. It would be hard to provide enough food for the
aposymbiotic gorgonian without disturbing the symbiotic animals (excess
DOC levels, etc) Best regards, Anthony>
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