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Koran angle; hlth. 6/15/15
hole in Koran angel's back fin?? 2/3/13
Koran angel intestinal
Please help with sick Koran
I am new to the hobby and I have learned SO much from your site! THANK YOU for taking the time to answer countless questions for hobbyists and making them available for everyone to read and learn from! You have and continue to contribute so much to making this hobby better for everyone! Not only on this site, but also on countless other websites, I have read about dropsy and bloat... I feel like this is what my Juvenile Koran Angel (approx 3.5-4") has but there is a little more to it and I'm not sure how to proceed... I'm hoping you can help...
On Dec 24, we were given an established 70 gal tank
<Too small for a Koran>
by some friends that had to move to Japan. There were only 2 fish and some inverts in it at the time.
We really didn't know anything about SW and didn't research ahead of time b/c acquiring the tank was an unplanned surprise. Since then, though, I have literally spent EVERY spare second (HOURS every day!!!) reading and learning. Unfortunately, we have had a lot of issues since the beginning and have lost several fish...
It all started with my husband buying a powder blue tang.
Even though I did really want one, I had read about them and decided that we needed to wait on getting it until we had a QT setup. My husband called me from the LFS and told me they had one there for $50 and I told him NOT TO get it. The owner of the store convinced him that it would be fine and even swindled him into spending more money on a product called Voogle that they claimed would boost the fish's immune system and everything would, for sure, be fine. It was only a couple days before we started noticing the white spots. We tried a "reef safe" Ich treatment called Kick Ick by Ruby Reef
(another waste of money recommended by the LFS) and after a couple of weeks, the PBT was looking TERRIBLE. I knew if we didn't do something fast we were going to lose our beloved fish. In the meantime we had acquired a 50gal tank to use as a HT for all the fish and so we caught all of them, put them in the 50g, and dosed with copper. The next morning the PBT was dead and the royal Dottyback was laying on it's side but still alive. I put the Dottyback into a 5g QT thinking it was hrs away from dying and I didn't want an ammonia spike to affect the other fish if I wasn't home to get it out immediately.
It lasted over a week in the 5g before it died, but I don't think it ate anything the entire time. The next fish we lost was a coral beauty angel.
Can't be sure, but it was doing totally fine until we couldn't find it the next day. When my husband got home from work that night, he found it (presumably because he had a hunch of where to look) and he admitted that he had moved some rocks around in that area trying to make more swimming room for them and, although he thought he had checked really well and was careful, he may have smooshed the coral beauty. :( Ever since then, the remaining fish had been doing great. There are 2 Ocellaris Clowns, 2 Azure Damsels, 1 Lawnmower Blenny, 1 One Spot Foxface, and 1 Koran Angel. All but the blue damsels and the lawnmower had shown signs of Ich infection prior to copper treatment and are all Ich free now. They have all (including the lawnmower and blue damsels) been in HT for 4.5 weeks and I just put in a Polyfilter last weekend to take out the copper. I plan on leaving them in there for at least a couple more weeks just to make sure they are all good.
Sorry for the long background but I thought it was important for you to understand the whole situation.
Now for my reason for writing you... The Koran Angel has had Lymphocystis since about the 2nd week of Jan or so (soon after we got him).
<Brought on by "stress">
At first we thought it was Ich, too, but as it grew we learned it was lymph. It has seemed bothered by it off and on, occasionally flashing on rocks and visiting the cleaner shrimp A LOT before going into QT, but otherwise seemed happy, fine, and always an aggressive eater. The past few days, though, he is not eating much, if any food. I noticed that he has some white furry looking growths on his bottom lip. It looks like some pics I've seen of fish with Lymph on their mouth. I figured that it was bothering him and making it hard for him to eat or causing him not to want to. Out of the past several days, I have tried to watch him closely during feeding time to see if he eats at all. I feed twice a day and out of several days, maybe about 5?, I have seen him eat a little something twice. I have been very concerned that he is not eating and trying to decide if I should try to catch him and manually remove the lymph growths, hopefully causing him to be able to eat again, or wondering if the stress of that would potentially cause him more problems. Last night I noticed that he had a string of poop hanging from him that was white and sort of stringy with a little clear in it (not thin like a hair though), and today he looks very bloated. He stays in "his cave" in the rocks most of the time. It seems like he tilts sideways sometimes when he is hovering in his cave but I'm not sure it is something concerning or just what he is doing on purpose. I have read on another person's post where you had told them to use Maracyn 2 for dropsy/bloat, but I'm not sure if it would still be the best treatment for my Koran with all the other stuff going on with him (just finishing copper treatment and getting over Ich infection, also suffering from lymph, being in a QT smaller than ideal for this fish, etc). I know that stress can cause so many problems and make problems worse. I just don't want to do anything wrong and cause anymore problems.
<You are wise here. The "bloat" is likely related to the copper exposure... Not feeding... I'd add a few pounds of fresh/cured live rock>
A couple other possibly relevant points:
I have noticed for at least 2 weeks that the lawnmower's belly is VERY bloated but it isn't always like that throughout the day. I had read that it can be from them eating a diet too rich in protein, which I thought might be the case because the copper killed all the algae on the LR for him to graze on. (I know you aren't supposed to use LR in QT or with meds, but I didn't know this until it was too late and I was told by the LFS that it was best to put LR & LS from established aquarium into a non cycled tank for emergency QT since there was no existing biological filter. I know... more BAD advice from the LFS... I won't be going to them for help ANYMORE for sure!) I do supplement with dried seaweed on clips daily, but the lawnmower doesn't swim up to that.
<Place it down on the bottom>
Now I have some good algae growth in there and for a while I have had diatoms on the glass which he eats.
All my water param.s are good. PH 8.3, 0 amm, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates. I have also read that adding magnesium can sometimes help. Do you think this would help in my case?
<Needs to be proportional (about 3:1) w/ Calcium concentration... both have to be tested for>
I have also read that some people have had success with Epsom salt baths.
Do you think this is something I should try?
<I would not at this point>
If so, what guidelines should I follow and how much salt to water should I use?
<Posted on WWM, IF you go this route>
Would I start with regular R/O water or start with saltwater like I would normally use for a water change? How long would I leave him in? Etc.
<IF you add Epsom, I would place it in the main tank... not a bath/dip>
If I get him out to do a Epsom bath, would you recommend trying to scrape of the lymph growths?
<I would not>
If you don't recommend the bath, would you still recommend getting him out and scraping off the growths?
I know that bloat is often caused by internal bacterial infection, thus the antibiotic treatment. I know I have some erythromycin that came with everything our friends gave us with the tank. If you do recommend antibiotic treatment for him, would what I have be ok to use? If so, what guidelines should I follow on dosage? I'm just not sure that it is a bacterial thing with him since he has all this other stuff going on. Could the bloat be caused by him not eating???
<I would not add medicines of any sort to the system>
Lastly, since I still have all the fish in the 50g tank to watch them a couple more weeks ensuring that everything is fine before returning them to the DT, I only have a 5gal tank that I could use for antibiotic treatment unless I bought yet another tank. (we currently have 8 tanks set up in our house! :/ SW: 70gal DT, 12gal NanoCube w/ corals, 50gal HT, 5gal QT; 3 FW tanks, and 1 turtle tank). I don't know where we would put another! The 5gal would be way too small for my 3-4" Koran even temporarily, though, wouldn't it?
Again, I apologize for the long winded email, but I am desperate for some help from someone who I believe is knowledgeable and isn't going to give me VERY wrong information. I have made the mistake of listening to a lot of people who thought they knew the right answers but didn't. As you know, there is soooo much to know in this hobby and it takes so much time to learn! Although I know I have so much more to learn, as I think this is a hobby that you can never learn everything about, I have learned soooo much in just the past 2 months and I know I won't be making so many dumb mistakes due to ignorance in the future. My husband thinks he has lost his wife to saltwater because I literally spend EVERY spare second that I have reading about it, or working on something with the tanks! LOL
Thank you so much in advance for your time and help!!!
<Happy to assist your efforts, understanding. Bob Fenner>
Re: Please help with sick Koran Angelfish! 3/2/12
Thank you so much for your help and such a quick response!
Just to clarify, are you saying you wouldn't medicate with any antibiotic even if I had a tank sufficiently sized for the Koran?
"<I would not add medicines of any sort to the system>"
What would be sufficient for a fish this size?
<... read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm
and the linked files above...>
Many people have told me that a 10 gal tank is fine for a QT.
It seems too small to me, but when I have said this to my husband, he points out that the fish are being housed in tanks no bigger than that at the LFS. I guess to state my question more plainly & specifically, what size QT do you think is needed?
<.... read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
I know stress can cause so many problems. I don't want a fish to be stressed due to being stuck in a QT that's too small & end up actually getting sick because of doing what I thought was right to keep the fish from getting sick.
Also, because he has been hiding in his cave most of the time, I have not gotten a good look at his mouth besides just being able top see his profile in the shadows & I could see that he had something growing on his bottom lip & thought it was just more lymphs. Tonight he came out from the cave some & was up against the glass where I could see his mouth really well.
It is actually really nasty looking, very red, & looks almost like it is rotting. The stuff on his mouth is cotton-like or fibrous looking. Do you think it could be Columnaris? If so, should I do anything different than what I'm already doing? I feel like it actually has more than one thing going on at the same time. I noticed tonight when I got a good look at it's mouth that it also has a lot of areas in its skin that are pale in color compared to what it should be. I immediately thought if HLLE but I feed a good diet (including frozen angelfish food by Ocean Nutrition) & other than the copper in the water for the ich treatment, water param.s have been good so I don't understand why it would get HLLE. Also, up can't find anything expressing any relationship between any of hours outward symptoms & the bloat/swim bladder problem he is having, so it makes me think he actually has 2 different things going on at the same time, but that seems so strange to me. Your thoughts?
He is my husband's favorite fish & I don't want to see him die but I do want your honesty if you think he undoubtedly will. Do you think there is any hope of the Koran surviving or is this just a waiting game until he dies?
<There is always hope>
Thank you so much again for your help,
Young Koran Angel, hlth. 8/24/08Hi! <Hello> Firstly, this is a truly fabulous site and so is the book by Mr. Fenner, that has become a bible for us. Brilliant! <Sarah, I wish we were having a Guinness> I have as suggested, read the web site and searched the Internet. for advice to help my young Koran. I am scared we are losing him and don't know how to what to do! Purchased 6 weeks ago, he was eventually introduced to the tank (100gls) 3 weeks ago. He was vibrant with colour, active to the point of rowdy, came readily for food and was at ease with his tank mates. Today, after 2 days of deterioration, he is blotchy, lethargic, hiding and not eating. He appears to be arching his back with all spinal fins extended, he also keeps falling over. When I first approached the tank this morning, he was lying on his side under a rock. He rallied himself upright but has remained mostly hidden. He seems to have moments when he appears to spasm, then is still again. He has 'fallen over' several times but each time manages to get upright again. I am very worried. <Me too... some "laying down" by this species does happen when they're young/small... but...> Our water is spot on, with all the parameters exactly where they should be. Apart from the blotching, there are no other obvious signs of illness. Please, how can I help him? Sarah ps. Sorry I can not get a decent photo, its too dark in his hiding-hole) <Do you have another up and going system you can move this fish to? I suspect some sort of external (Flukes, gill...) and/or internal (lumenal) parasite issue at root here... but by the time this/these can be addressed, it may be too late here now... Do you want to try a pH adjusted freshwater bath (with or w/o some Formalin), moving this fish immediately afterwards to a tank with reduced spg? Bob Fenner>
Re: Young Koran Angel -- 09/07/08 Hello again Mr. Fenner, Sadly, during the night of my original message, we lost the little Koran. It was very distressing especially as he was so small and almost knowing that he would be gone in the morning. We didn't get to try the dip you suggested as time had passed but at least have that knowledge logged, for future reference. <Ahh> Thank you for taking the time to respond so quickly and informatively. Its a good thing we have electronic mail, your post bag would need a truck to deliver! <And to think of the trees, pollution in making the paperwork, the portion of incidental postal worker jokes...> Thank you for all the work that goes into this site, it's totally invaluable and definitely worth a Guinness! Sarah x <Now you're talkin'! Thank you for this follow-up Sarah. BobF>
Koran angel with white small pimples in the mouth.........on the lips..... 07/28/2008I've had my Koran for about 3 months now and I noticed his lips being swollen (he's 2 inches). After inspection, it seems to look like his lips have chapped off in a few places and look a bit swollen (maybe an exaggeration). <Have seen such before> He seems to eat when fed and does not display any sick behavior habits (ick, etc) Is this typical for a juvenile to show? Any ideas???? Thank you Adam <Perhaps some collateral damage from a trauma, collection? Maybe idiopathic, tumorous... I'd be reading re water quality, nutrition... A photo next time... Bob Fenner>
Koran angel fungus? 12/24/07Hey crew merry Christmas to you and yours <Peace, good will...> Need help ASAP. I have gotten <How long ago?> a Koran angel from a LFS he is eating very well, alert and curious. However, He seems to have this white colored film growing on him. Looks like a fungus. <Mmmm... would be exceedingly rare if this were a true fungus...> It has eroded some of the edges on his pectoral fins and given them a pale white translucent color as opposed to the normal clear transparent color. this does not seem to be ich as it is not raised protrusions this is more a film or a better example would be when you do a fungal assay the white subtly fuzzy film of certain fungi that appears. I realize this could also very well be a bacterial infection. either case this fish is quarantined (of course) in a 55 gallon aquarium with a 30 gallon sump water <Ah, very good> is reef quality 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, < 10 ppm nitrate, calcium 400 ppm, ph 8.3. I have removed carbon and turned off protein skimmer. I have dosed for the last 48 hours in malachite green. I have not seen any real improvement. now I have realize that if it is in fact a fungus that I would probably need to use a sulfur type medication. <Likely you mean Sulfa...> do you have any recommendations? <Yes... just simple observation for now> also if it is bacterial which regimen of antibiotics should I use. <Best not to...> Don't be afraid of giving a complicated answer I am a veterinary technician pursuing a bachelors in marine biology I have access to all chemicals and medications. please be as specific as possible. thank you all so much for what you do. its people like you who helped me to see my goals in this field to fruition. God bless you Regards Daniel Bock <IF you were a wholesale/intermediate facility I would have done a prophylactic dip/bath (see WWM re) going in/out of stages/systems here... IF you think it will help (sans any sensitivity testing) I MIGHT utilize a Furan cpd. (perhaps Nitrofuranace) at 250 mg./ten gallons... as an antimicrobial... If your employer will allow it, I would do a simple "mucus swipe" look/see here (see Ed Noga, "Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment"... Again, I am very dubious that this situation is mycelious... and it is highly likely that actual "treatment" of this Pomacanthus may do more harm than good. Bob Fenner>
Koran Angel Hi, I recently had written to you about the Koran angelfish. I finally bought one that was in prime condition. (He's a changeling, he has a yellow strip on him now.) The problem is his right eye has clouded up a bit and his left one is normal. What's going on? The water is good and he's eating really well. (I feed him 6 small servings a day, each serving is finished in under 2 minutes). What could be wrong??? Any insights would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks. David. >> If it's only the one eye, the cause of the cloudiness is likely some sort of mechanical injury... like a brush with a rough net when the fish was moved... And it will self-cure... That is, you need only do your best to optimize and stabilize the animal's environment. If the cloudiness were on both sides, there might well be a real issue of poor water quality or infection... Be patient, the opacity may take a few weeks to heal completely. Bob Fenner
Koran Angelthanks, Now that you mention mechanical injury, I think he might have bumped really hard into a rock when I turned on the lights when I thought I heard a mantis shrimp in my tank. Thanks for the reassurance. David. >> Ah, I suspected as much... take it easy always on the sudden lighting issue... turn the "house lights" on and wait a good ten minutes before turning on any/some of the tank ones... a big deal, yes. Bob Fenner, glad to render reassurance.
Koran AngelNow there is a bigger problem, His eye is swollen now too, and looks as though it may explode. You can't see it's pupil anymore. All you can see is he out side of the eye and looks damaged. David. >> And a tough call... if the eye is totally damaged to the point of loss... this may happen... if it is intermediate... it may warrant a swab of antiseptic (much the same as humans)... if it is only slightly damaged (not possible to assess at this point), it isn't worth the further trauma of netting, handling the animal... The long and short of the situation: I would wait a few days to see what transpires (not surprisingly Latin for "looking through" or across) Bob Fenner
Koran AngelUmm, have you seen a condition where the eye looks as though it's swelling out of the socket? It's taking the eye cover with it. So it may be grim right? Thanks for all our advice. David. >> Not necessarily... hang in there... the eyes of fishes like ourselves are highly vascularized... lots of blood vessels... and subject to similar edema/swelling with physical trauma.... give the animal time. Bob Fenner
Koran AngelThis is David again, Recent developments in my fish are: Both eyes are now cloudy, I suspect that he is really skittish and might have bumped into another rock. His eyes haven't exploded yet. There is skin like material coming of his eyes. (I'm suspecting a type of fungus.) Any ideas? David. >> Hmm, well, I would at least consider moving the distressed animal to a quarantine/hospital tank... if you have one... and keep the lights low... If the problem continues to progress/worsen... I would further consider applying an antiseptic to the fish's eyes (with a "q-tip")... and if it looks even worse... and persistent, consider mixing in antibiotics into its foods... the eye discoloration is not fungal... maybe bacterial... Bob Fenner
Koran AngleI have a Koran Angle it is about 11/2 in size. I have had it for over 1 year it has started to lose its color on its face how should I treat it >> Really? A Koran (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) that you've had for more than a year... and it's only one and a half inch long?... The color loss is due to either poor water quality, or more likely in your case, to a lack of nutrition... Make sure the fish is getting its share of food, twice daily... and soak/treat the food with a commercial vitamin/iodine prep.... Bob Fenner
Three weeks ago we purchased a Koran angel from a chain pet store, and noticedthat this gorgeous fish was in a 20 gallon tank with four other fish, so we wanted to save it from these horrible conditions. The Koran's juvenile colors were dull, and we assumed that maybe he was beginning to change to his adult colors. But after two days in our tank (65 gallon), his colors became vibrant and he was eating very well. For the past couple of days, the Koran has stopped eating, his colors have become dull once again, he has developed some corrosion around his fins, and his eyes are so glazed they look white. All the levels in the tank seem to be normal, we did just add a sea anemone and two clownfish, but all of them seemed to be coexisting fine. We do not want to lose the Koran, so if you could provide us with any solutions or ideas to what is ailing him it would be appreciated! We do have two invertebrates in the tank, but they can be moved to another tank if necessary (The Koran cannot be moved because of his size in proportion to the other tank). Please respond immediately, we don't want to lose him. >> Unusual... and maybe related to the presence of the anemone... but, if it were me, and especially if I had no other place to move the animal I would leave the Koran in the tank it is now and hope for the best... this species (Pomacanthus semicirculatus) often does seemingly miraculous turn-arounds... Subdue the lighting for the next few days, add a biological cleaner organism if you can (my fave, a Lysmata amboinensis Shrimp) and try to be patient. Bob Fenner, who's article on this favorite Indo-Pacific Angelfish can be found archived at the URL: www.wetwebmedia.com
Hello, first of all thanks for the help. I have another question. My Koran Angel doesn't seem to be getting better, maybe it is, maybe its not. Its in a treatment w/ copper since it has ich. It also has another ectoparasite like bumps. what could it be. thanks. >> Either a type of external parasitic/infectious agent, its effects/response by your Angel, or possibly just a reaction of the fish to something disagreeable in your water. You might consider scraping a bit of this material off and looking through a simple microscope... the QVX Intel/Mattel unit that hooks up to your PC works great for this and is cheap... 100X should do... To reveal whether there is a critter involved or no... And in any case, do check what you can re your water quality... and do the default water change/gravel vacuuming, cleaning your skimmer, adding a unit of activated carbon in the filter flow path... To see if this has a discernible effect. If the specimen is eating otherwise, perhaps time just has to go by.... Lastly, if the copper treatment has run its/a two week course, do discontinue it... this may be harming the animal more than helping as well. Bob Fenner
Koran angelsGreetings again Robert, I'll cut to the chase, i can't keep Korans for toffee, I've bought three young adults in the last two years all healthy and feeding when purchased but all dying in less than six weeks . <Time to look for a new source... or your system for something wrong. Pomacanthus semicirculatus is one of the toughest angel species> I've noticed they do seem susceptible to a cylindrical eye and body parasite that is only killed by a fresh water bath but then so are most of the Angels i keep' I currently own, Queen, Blue Queen, French ,Black, Blueface, Majestic, Six-Bar, Chrysurus, Asfur, Passer, Maculosus and Cortez Angels and apart from the two Cortez's and one of the Six-Bars I've owned them all for six months and more ,in fact some for nearly three years so why can't i keep Korans ? <Look into buying them from Marine Center... someplace else than where you've been getting them> could it be that it is one of the industry standards like Powder Blues that despite being common in the hobby really do not do that well or knowing that they are hardy am i subconsciously not keeping them as well as i should ,anyway i hope you could shed some light on my plight...Thanks Graham.H <Read and heed: http://wetwebmedia.com/korana.htm Bob Fenner>
Koran AngelHello Bob, First I would like to thank you for putting up this great site, it has helped me so much. My question is that I noticed that one of the gill spine on my Koran is missing, Will the gill spine grow back? I think that the missing spine was caused by rough netting. Thanks again Peter >> <Thank you for your encouraging words, and allow me to reciprocate: It is likely that the opercular spine of your Koran will indeed grow back... and you are correct (at least we're in agreement) that this defensive mechanism is often broken, damaged by handling. Bob Fenner>
Koran AngelBob, Thank you so much for answering all the questions that come your way. You are a valuable resource to the hobby. I have read your CMA book (many times) and browsed the site (many times). <Mmm, maybe more than me> My question is regarding a new 2.5" Koran angel that I added to my 40gal tank <You know this tank is too small, and is becoming smaller...> about one week ago. He spent two weeks in quarantine following a dip with Methylene blue, problem free. He has been eating and socializing well with his other tankmates, which consist of a 3" Bennetti puffer, 1" percula, 3" yellow tang, 3" cowfish, cleaner shrimp (not bothered at all by puffer - weird). <It will be consumed in time> Tank parameters are all ideal, nitrates are at 20, nitrites and ammonia at 0, pH at 8.2, temp at 80, salinity at 1.023. Have an eclipse hood with a Remora pro skimmer & 25lbs. of live rock. The tank has been up and running for about 9 months. Just this afternoon, I noticed four or five spots about the size of a pencil eraser or smaller on the side of the angel that are pale, like they have been erased a little. I am a bit concerned because I had a majestic that started off with this problem after several days in quarantine. It progressed and looked as if the scales were sticking out of the fish instead of laying flat, no eating, hiding, and death. I know now that this fish was not a great choice, and an now trying my luck with the Koran. My guess is that water quality may need to be improved (I change 5 gal every two weeks now), vitamins added to food, and time. Is this OK or am I way off target? <Other than the small size of the system, no real worries... The markings are not unusual for this species... more of a "mood" thing than absolute health> Any input is greatly appreciated as I love the large angels, but am becoming discouraged quickly. <Come on a dive trip with us... And/or get a much larger system... Bob Fenner>
Marine Fish QuestionsDear Bob: Thank you so much for answering my questions - I do greatly appreciate it. <You're welcome> I am having some trouble. My tank used to have a 9 inch clown trigger who beat up my 8 inch Koran Angel for awhile - I realized the combo was not going to work, so I finally got rid of the clown trigger. The Koran got nipped up a bit and I thought he had a bacterial infection. I have read your section on parasites, but I am still confused about what I might be up against. If you would can you see the link: http://www.ringing.com/sickangel.jpg <I see... an abraded area behind the Koran's right pectoral, cloudy eye.> He started the rubbing and scratching against the bottom of the tank, his eyes are cloudy and swollen, and now this patch on each side (looks somewhat bloody inside). Any info would be appreciated. <Likely just the/a continuing action from the Trigger abuse. I would not specifically treat the system, move this specimen. Do augment its foods (HUFA's, Vitamins) and do your usual best to keep water quality optimized and stable> Also, will this pass to my leopard shark? Yellow Tang? Or Green Moray Eel? <Not likely, but the presence of the Shark, its movements and wastes are likely a contributing cause as well. Bob Fenner> Thanks A Ton, Alex
Koran Angel Hi Anthony, one quick
question with my 90G FOWLR. My Koran angel gets what I will call
smudges on his pectoral fins. This makes the fins look cloudy without
and detail such as a Cryptocaryon pin spot. In a day or two they
disappear. sometimes they are gone for two weeks, other times they come
back two days later. <sounds like mucous from irritation. Could be
parasitic... I'm wondering if you don't have 3+ F degree
temperature swings between day and night. Do check> Today, this
"bacterial infection" (guess??) is back but just on one side.
Any idea what this is? <very unlikely bacterial> Should I worry?
Thanks Larry P.S. I've attached a picture, but I don't think it
will help.....I need to capture just the correct angle, or else the fin
looks fine. <if the fish will eat try medicated food for a spell but
do keep a close eye in case QT is necessary. Angels are so prone to
full blown parasite infections that we cannot take this lightly.
Koran Angel questionHi, we have a Koran angel fish that is about 2 years old and is trying to reach its intermediate color phase of life, However, he's not doing so well, his face has turned a whitish color, he has a slightly high breathing rate (approx 108/min), and some whitish stripes are near his tail fin and streak inwards on his body. These whitish streaks on his body and face are not bumps or leaches. Also, he's not eating and tends to just stay in his rocky cove where he sleeps. Any ideas what might be the problem and/or cure? <Mmm, sounds much like the beginnings of HLLE, likely triggered by poor water quality and/or nutrition.> Thanks, we have really grown fond of our Koran Angel and want to see him obtain his adult colors someday. <Please read through the HLLE FAQs here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and re the species on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm and the related FAQs (in blue, at top) and check your water quality for nutrient accumulation aspects, spiff up your skimmer, consider augmenting your fish's diet with vitamins, iodide. Bob Fenner>
Koran In Trauma!Hi guys I have a question on my 2 inch Koran angel that is not eating and has a hole in his body that has a red ring around it any information on this disease would be greatly appreciated thanks! <Well, hard to say without a good picture, but it almost sounds like you are dealing with some form of parasite, or even an infection brought about by some trauma (injury, bite, etc). In the absence of other obvious disease symptoms, I'd remove this fish to a separate aquarium for observation and/or treatment. You should keep water quality in the treatment tank absolutely pristine, to prevent potential greater infection. If there does indeed to be some form of parasite, I'd use some freshwater dips, followed by a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as Maracyn, to prevent even greater infection during the healing process...Do refer to the disease FAQs on the wetwebmedia.com site, and confirm what it may be that you're dealing with here! Let me know if we can be of any further help! Good luck! Scott F>
Re: Koran Angel ProblemHi, Thanks for your reply! I checked out that website and it was really interesting. It didn't say much about disease though, do you have any idea to what his problem might be or what I can do to help. The people at the petstore suggested he might have a throat tumor but I can't find anything about fish getting them online so I wanted to see if it was possible that it was anything treatable. Could this behavior be associated with the color changing? To answer your questions: Yes it is a tank full of live rock, I have two millennium 3000 filters one on each side, I have a protein skimmer and a power head. The salinity is at 1.022, temp is at 81F. The tank mates are: a small Chromis, two chalk Basslets, a small target goby, two cleaner shrimp, a green abalone, a pencil urchin. a maroon clown, and a bulb anemone. Thanks! ~Neosha~ <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/MarInd3of6.htm skip on down to the marine disease area, and read starting from the top articles, FAQs. Bob Fenner>
Re: Koran Angel Problem Hi Mr. Fenner, I checked out the FAQ and I did gain a lot of valuable information from it but I did not find anyone with a similar situation to mine. All of the other fish that wouldn't eat had problems but my fish has no white spots, no cloudy eyes, no gill flaring, nothing I saw on the site. So what I really want to know is...have you heard of any problem that might make a fish not be able to physically eat even though the have the appetite for it? <Yes... there are several cases like this noted on WWM> Do you recommend a freshwater dip for the fish? <No, won't help here.> Many thanks, Neosha PS I just noticed you are the author of "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" which I just bought a few weeks ago, well done, great book! <Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Help! blotchy faced Koran AngelfishHi, I am hoping you can give me some advice. I have a Koran Angelfish that looks like he is experiencing early male pattern baldness. His color was solid all over when I bought him. He picked up ich about 2 weeks after I brought him home, but freshwater baths and the addition of a scarlet cleaner shrimp did the trick. A few weeks later after he was all cleared up the color on his face area started to look blotchy and turned white in a very evenly matched pattern on his face. He was about 3 1/2 inches when I first bought him and now he's almost double that so he's starting to go through the change of life to adulthood coloration. I have had him for over 6 months now. Water is great, he's happy and eats a balanced diet. He's the master of his own tank (no one is terrorizing him and stressing him out). Any advice as to what this is and what I can do to even out his skin color again? Thanks for your expertise. Jen <Very often, well often enough, the blotchiness you mention in this species is indication of the beginning of HLLE: Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm I would look into augmenting this fish's diet with iodide and vitamins A and D... there are products sold pre-made for this in the pet-fish interest. Bob Fenner>
Koran Angel with white patchesG'day guys. <Good day Stu> I have a 3-4 inch Koran Angelfish in my reef tank. He is a lovely looking fish and is a big eater. In the last few weeks I have noticed that he has been getting white faded patches on his body and fins. Not everywhere but just small circular patches. Can you advise what this is as I don't think is has to do with the maturity process. Also how can rid it off the fish if necessary. Any medication or treatment in a reef tank?? Also are UV sterilizers a worth while purchase as they do get rid of the pathogens and algae. But doesn't the algae help sustain the environment and help feed the corals, fish and inverts and therefore use of the nitrates. Stu <The "blanching" you describe might be indicative of sliding water quality or some other sort of stress (even simply psychological), otherwise maybe just the fish reacting to your presence. Unless you see other symptoms of infectious or parasitic disease I would not treat or move this fish. UV's can help in promoting overall health by improving water quality and reducing populations of water-borne microbes. They will not eliminate the possibility or absolutely cure biological disease. Bob Fenner>
Sick Koran Angel (4/28/04)My Koran Angel has been with me for many years. <How many? IS it just getting old?> Recently he has gone off eating and his eyes are very puffy. They look like they have been blown up. One of the eyes seems to have a raised bubble on it. I do not have a hospital tank. Any suggestions? <This sounds like a bacterial infection. If you want to save this fish, you need to set up a hospital tank. This can be a Rubbermaid container with a sponge filter and a heater. I'd suggest treating with an antibiotic such as Maracyn. Read the FAQs on Popeye & bacterial infections. Hope this helps. Steve Allen.>
Sick Koran Angel 10/11/05Wet Web Crew: We have a 55 gallon tank with a Koran Angel and a Puffer fish in it. The Koran is about 3-4" long and the puffer is about 3-4" long. They get along very well. The tank has some live rock in it and also some decorative rock. About two days ago we noticed that both fish had white spots all over their fins and bodies. We thought it was Ich and treated them for it. It did clear up, but when we read about the symptoms of Ich, it did not sound like that is what they actually had. The Koran Angel now has cloudy eyes, a swollen pink mouth and white blotches over his body. He has been stressed over the last few days due to tank changes to treat the ich a fresh water dip for only a few seconds, and a lack of appetite. The tank he was in when we thought he had ich was dirty due to overfeeding, something I did not know could be so harmful and the water had a bit of a high nitrate level, but not too bad. We did a water change, cleaned all the equipment and put the puffer and angel back in. Today, one day after being returned to the tank, the angel developed these symptoms. I had noticed him swimming on his side sometimes over the last few weeks, but he was eating and acting healthy. Do you have any idea what this disease could be and what would cure it? I'm afraid that if we don't know something for sure soon, the angel won't make it. We would appreciate any help. Thank you. By the way, we view your site a lot and find it very helpful. <David and Heather, I cringe when I read queries such as yours. A picture comes into my mind of very poor diet, poor water parameters, and poor maintenance which includes weekly 10% water changes and add to the fact that your 55 is too small for keeping these types of fish as they do grow quite large. I'm seeing a rise in ammonia due to excess waste and a biofiltering system too small to recover. All this leads to severe stress of the animals in question making them highly susceptible to disease. I can suggest that both fish should be separated for the time being either in separate Quarantine tanks or using a tank divider if QT's are not available. Then you need to get a product such as SeaCure Copper Treatment along with a FasTest Copper test kit and maintain a dose of 0.015-0.020 for a minimum of 21 days. The test kit is necessary especially if you are going to treat in the main tank. Hopefully you can save the fish. You didn't mention what you initially treated the fish with and for how long. In the future do more research on the fish you are buying so you know its requirements/needs. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: Sick Koran Angel 10/12/05 Actually, our biofiltering system is larger than what we need for the tank and when these fish outgrow the tank they are in we are transferring them to an 80 gallon tank. <Good news. The Koran alone would require a 70 gallon tank when it is full grown and this is borderline, preferably a six foot long tank.> I appreciate your advice and assure that we take good care of our tanks. <Great> We have three of them. something just went wrong in this one. We did a 25-30% water change before putting the fish back in the tank and the nitrate level was never high. We checked it very regularly. At this time, they are both small and the tank seems big enough for the two of them. <Agreed, now it is but won't be for long.> Can you tell me if this is true? Do they need a bigger tank now, even though the puffer and angel are not full grown? <A rule of thumb I use is one cubic (not length) inch of fish per five gallons.> It sounds like you are not positive we can save the fish - which would break my heart. <I'm always on the positive side. Problem is if treatment is delayed the fish only gets worse and then to the point where the copper treatment even adds further stress.> The puffer is lethargic this morning and I don't know if he was sleeping or whether he is not developing symptoms as well - can the disease be spread? <Most definitely. Do you employ a quarantine tank to put new arrivals in? Read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm> I really am sorry about all this. Our other two tanks are fine. <Great> One is a reef tank and we have lost nothing from that tank in months. We did introduce a Petco baby tank <baby tank or tang?> into the tank with the puffer and angel - it died in two days. Could this possibly have been the start of these diseases. <Yes, tanks/tangs are ich magnets and should definitely be quarantined.> If I treat the angel with copper, does it have a better chance of living? I have read that angel fish are extremely sensitive to copper treatments. <Correct, that is why it is a must to use a copper test kit to insure copper is at a safe and effective level.> I'm sorry that the tank was not better cared for, <You don't have to be sorry to me, but it sure sounds like you are a caring person that will do whatever it takes to keep your stock healthy. Please read more on the WWM. FAQ's allow you to learn from other peoples mistakes. Again, research a fish you are interested in, especially care level, compatibility and size of tank required. www.liveaquaria.com has a chart for every fish indicating the above.> but I assure you that we did test the water and because of the filtering system on the tank, everything always seemed fine. However, our test kit cannot test for calcium and some of the more advanced water test items. <Wouldn't be too concerned with calcium in a fish only tank, although too low a level can cause the ph to drop somewhat. Do test for dKH, 8-12dkh is recommended.> I honestly thought I was doing the right thing and would hate to lose these fish over my lack of knowledge. <All the knowledge you need can be had for free on the WWM.> Any additional advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much. I know I asked a lot of questions in this e-mail and hope you will be kind enough to answer them. <We are here to help. Most if not all of the questions you ask can easily be found on the Wet Web by just typing in the keyword.> The angel does seem a bit better today and I got both fish to eat some Krill last night. Their diet is now more varied than it was, and I hope it is not too late. Losing these fish would break my heart because it would be my own fault for lack of knowledge. <Again, Heather, definitely read about what you are getting. Korans are not that difficult to care for. They do require clean water, low nitrates, 10% weekly water changes and a good and varied diet. Read again here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/ - Good luck, James (Salty Dog)>
Koran Angel health concern 8/1/05Hi, <Hello there> I have been referring to this fantabulous site for various kinds of information and I have never failed to find the same, this is the first time 'am asking an question. <Welcome, you are a stranger here but once> The other day I bought myself a Koran Angel...the Angel is doing great and it is quite active and eats quite well but I have noticed some white patches on its body and it seems to rub itself surfaces. Ich is ruled out because it does not look like ich as in there are not dots or spots on the body just a general discolouration i.e. white patches. Any help will help. Regards Rajeev Menon <This medium sized species of angelfish is prone to such behavior, displays when new or stressed... I would not panic, treat the water with chemicals. Bob Fenner>
Koran Angel I've done a thorough search and can't find any article about the symptoms similar to that of my Koran Angelfish. Everyone talks about white spots or fuzzy cotton spots. What about red bumps? My angel is in a 55 gal and was doing fine the first week in his new home. He then developed red bumps, irregular in shape, looking similar to a mole, on both sides of his body directly behind his fins. One grew quite large and the other side of his body looked as if it was going to clear up. No such luck. While the bump on one side isn't as big, it is larger in diameter, flat, and almost a little bloody looking. The only other fish in the tank is my little "Nemo" Clown, yellow Tang, and 2 green Chromis. I have moved him to a quarantine tank of 10 gallons. I should mention that his appetite is hearty as ever. I really hope you can help with this. I am quite attached to this particular fish as he is very sweet and tame to the point of being friendly when my hand goes in the tank and even lets me touch him. Help!! Thanking you in advance for your consideration, Bobbi <Bobbi, without seeing it, I'm thinking these spots are ulcers. I would start be treating with saltwater Maracyn. Water quality is of the utmost importance for these fish. Weekly water changes of 10% is highly recommended. I would also add an iodine supplement to the aquarium. James (Salty Dog)>
Koran Angel eye problem, needing to read WWMI have searched your site for days and haven't found a solid answer to my question. I have Koran angel, when bought he had a cloudy eye. I was told it was like a black eye and it would get better, which it started to. After 2 weeks it was slowly getting better. Today I checked and both eyes are cloudy. They are not bulging, just cloudy. The other fish in the tank are fine, and my water quality is great........What is going on??? Please give me some advice <Trouble... please read on WWM re Angelfish disease... you will find many references to your situation, proposed and actual cures. Bob Fenner>
Cloudy crystal ball, Pomacanthus semicirculatus eyesMy Koran Angel's eye's are both cloudy. He/she is in a quarantine tank and have been adding Maracyn 2, for 3 days now. How long until I can see some results?? <Perhaps weeks, maybe never. Bob Fenner>
Koran Angel, Bacterial? 8/4/06 Good Morning Everyone, <Dave> I have a Juvenile Koran Angel that I have had for about 6 weeks. He was in apparent perfect health when I bought him. I quarantined him for 30 days, and everything looked good so I introduced him to the main tank, a 110 gal FOWLR. Within 24 hours, his left eye had developed a cloudy and torn appearance. I decided that he must have scraped on something (but I could be wrong so I'm including this little tidbit), left him alone, and it healed on it's own. <Good... did likely rub on a/the net, perhaps something else> After a few days in the DT, I noticed that his body had lightened somewhat. His behavior seemed completely normal otherwise, eating, grazing, etc, and the eye was healing, so again, I just waited. Eventually, a white sore appeared near his dorsal fin. <Might be related to the same incident> This spot seemed more like a lesion, and was coupled by the rapid, severe fraying of his right pectoral fin, so I double checked my water parameters and found out that I had been using the wrong reagent to test and my nitrates were sky high... near 50-60. <Yikes... too high> I suspect that a heavy cleaning of the sand bed a week earlier disturbed algae that had grown on the top, causing it to die and DOCs to spike. <Too likely> A series of (3) 30% water changes over the next 4 days brought nitrates down to 0.75. <Wow!> I have observed no physical aggression towards this fish on behalf of his tankmates. 48 hours after the water changes were completed (last Thursday), I noticed that this large white lesion appeared behind the frayed right pectoral fin, along with the tissue joint between the pectoral fin and body becoming discolored as well. After many repeated attempts to get the little bugger to hold still long enough for my slow camera to get a picture, I got one of the spot. It's attached, sorry it's not a better quality photo. I am worried that this is a bacterial infection spreading to the body from fin rot of the right fin. <Maybe> I have isolated this fish into a QT and have been medicating the QT with both Maracyn and Maracyn-II since Sunday evening. I have not seen any progression of the problem, although I have seen no improvement either. <Takes time... weeks> I am feeding the angel nightly with Ocean Nutrition Angel Formula, giving him 30 minutes to eat and siphoning the waste/leftovers from the bottom, topping off, and re-medicating. Again, even in the QT, his behavior is completely normal. My questions are: Do you believe I have diagnosed this correctly? <Good guesses> Am I performing what you believe to be the correct treatment? <Mmm, maybe... I might have left the fish in the main display, might replace it there, "for what it's worth"> How long with these products until I can expect to see a visual result? <Weeks> I can treat for up to 10 days according to the directions... Should I be doing any other treatments? <I would not> Can any of these other treatments be done concurrent to the Maracyn/Maracyn-II treatments, or should I stop these treatments? <I would run out their course and then stop> If you've provided alternate suggestions, how long before I can expect to see a visual result? Thanks in advance, Dave <Same time frame. Again... likely physical trauma and poor environment are at principal cause here... Improving the second, avoiding the first is about what this fish needs. Bob Fenner>
Koran Angel/Health - 05/22/2006 Hello
Bob, <James with you today, Bob is probably charging his tanks in HI
as we speak.> <<Not quite yet today. RMF>> I always read
the post and questions people have on WetWeb. quite helpful. <It
is.> I bought a Koran Angel yesterday and he looked well, ate well
and I have been watching him at LFS for a week now. I got him home and
he seemed to adjust well, in with my Porc. puffer. this morning I woke
and found him to have a blotchy appearance. he is eating well. I have
no ammonia, nitrites or nitrates ( very low 5ppm). my pH is 8.2 sg.
1.01 , temp 79 he is eating well and swimming around even bullying my
puffer a little. Is this a mood thing with them? Very normal
behavior.> Also sometimes swims kinda leaning a bit/ should I be
concerned?? <A normal trait.> I am! <Lori, sounds to me like a
water quality issue to me. Do read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm
thanks, <Lori, in future queries, do cap all "i"s and
beginnings of sentences. Saves us much time if we do not have to
edit/correct. James (Salty Dog)> Lori