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FAQs about the Yellow Band (and Asfur) Angels 2

Related Articles: Maculosus AngelMarine Angelfishes, Pomacanthus Angels,

Related FAQs: Asfur, Maculosus FAQs 1Arusetta Identification, Arusetta Behavior, Arusetta Compatibility, Arusetta Selection, Arusetta Systems, Arusetta Feeding, Arusetta Disease, Arusetta Reproduction, Marine Angelfishes In General, Angelfish ID, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Health, Feeding, Disease,  

Pomacanthus (Arusetta) asfur, the Arabian or Crescent Angel. A juvenile.

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish/Maculosus Systems 5/17/2011
<Hello JS>
I always email you folks if I can't find a thorough enough answer to my question on WWM. I want to buy this Gold Stripe Maroon Clown at my lfs which is bright red and about 3.25". I read contradictory statements multiple times regarding color of this species. I do not like the dark maroon so at 3.25" do you think this is the adult coloration of this clown at this size?
<Mmmm, generally the Yellow Stripe/Gold Stripe Maroon Clownfish is similar to the Maroon Clownfish
except it has yellow stripes on the forehead, midsection, and tail, instead of white.>
Or will he most likely go darker maroon with age and size?
<I'd bet the fish will turn dark. At 3.25", the fish has a few more inches to grow before reaching adult size of around 6".>
Lastly, I just purchased a 3.5" Maculosus angel for my 90gal Fowlr and looking at the pics of this fish on Google, I see that they're a blue/purple color as adults. Mine, on the other hand, is dark gray and yellow....will he get lighter and brighter with age?
<Juveniles tend to be dark blue with white stripes. A pic would help here.>
Is this angel a beauty at larger sizes or just average?
<It's a beauty in my opinion but a 90 gallon tank is a bit small for this fish, problems forthcoming. Suggest reading here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/maculosus.htm>
Thanks guys!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Asfur... lg. Pomacanthid comp. period  8/4/10
Hi guys.
<And gals Thai>
I recently bought 2 fish, Asfur and Passer. They are housed in a 375 gallon with a large yellow tang, medium purple tang, coral beauty and a small niger trigger.
Naturally the tang's harassed the crap out of the 2 angels which are both 4-5inches. Day 2 and they all tolerate each other now. Now it's Day 4, the passer is eating everything.
<Ah, good>
The asfur hasn't ate <eaten> since he arrived. He is quite shy when I approach the tank but if I'm far away is out and about quite a lot. Should I be worried about the asfur not eating.
<Not quite yet, no>
I feed Nori, Spectrum 2mm and Ocean Nutrition Angel Formula. I've heard there quite hardy and will eat eventually. I also tried adding Seachem Garlic to the Nori but haven't seen it touch it.
<I'd switch the dry food to Spectrum brand... much more palatable>
I got have about 400 pounds of live rock. It doesn't really pick at it at all.
<As far as you've observed. Does it appear thin?>
Also thinking of adding a French, Queen and Blue Ring into the mix once the asfur starts being normal and moving the niger into another tank
What do you guys think?
<I would not add these other Angel species... this mixing of large Pomacanthids is a "slippery slide" of juggled psychological challenges that few win at for long. Bob Fenner>
Thai Pham

Fishie Mix & Recommendation Stocking an Aquarium for The Long Term  12/5/08 Hi, <Hey there! Scott F. in tonight!> I have been reading your site for a while and really enjoy the information you provide. Read the good reviews you had on the Aussie Harlequin Tusk and just got one. It is eating within 24 hours and is swimming, curious, and beautiful! <Excellent...A great fish in the right aquarium.> Anyway, I've also read reviews on the Map Angel and decided it sounded nice. So I was wondering if I could add this and a couple more to my tank, all my fish now get along great and all except the tusk I've had between 2 and 7 years. I have an established 240 gallon semi-reef but have another tank I can move coral to if they get munched, so that is not a concern. The 240 is hooked to a sump, fuge, frag tank with another 160 gallon of water. Total system volume 400 gallons with skimmer and normal equipment to support a large tank. <Sounds like a nice system.> The fish I have now are: Swallowtail Angel Harlequin Tuskfish Marine Betta Yellow Tail Blue Damsel Sailfin Tang <Gets REALLY large!> 2 Gold Stripe Maroon Clown Coral Beauty I would like to add: Map Angel <Hmm...I have an issue with keeping this fish. Yes, it is hardy, beautiful, and adaptable, but my concern is the huge size that this fish can attain. Twenty inches is not uncommon for this fish. A fish of this size roams over huge territories in nature- acres. To keep a fish that can reach this size in anything but an absolutely enormous aquarium (like dozens of feet long and thousands of gallons in capacity) is like you or I spending the rest of our lives in a walk- in closet. This presents some moral issues for the aquarist. I, personally am not in favor of keeping large fishes such as this one in most aquariums. I discourage you from keeping one as well. Just my two cents worth, as they say.> Male Swallowtail w/another female <A more manageable size, but you would probably hit stocking capacity by adding one or more of these fishes...Two would really put you over the edge, IMO.> A couple more of the same damsels <If you add one more of the Swallowtails, you'd be able to add maybe two more of these fish...then you'd be maxed out.> I am not planning on buying a bigger tank so what I get would have to be housed in the system I have now permanently. <Very responsible philosophy!> Does this sound like a decent combo of fish with the new additions? Thanks, Flo <Well, Flo, as reiterated above. I'd pass on the Map Angel and go with smaller fishes. It's a better long-term move, IMO. Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Stunted Marine Angel Growth?  02/12/06 Hi all, love your supportive advice. I have had a Maculosus Angel (4 inches) in my 75 gallon FOWLR for a little over a year now.  He is doing well, eating great and gets along with his tank mates (Yellow tang, flame hawk, PJ cardinal and a Christmas wrasse)  My question is that he does not seem to have put on the size that I thought he would have in a years time; <Agreed> only growing a couple inches.  My water parameters are great, and he is fed a very varied of Nori, frozen food, spectrum pellets and Cyclop-eeze as well as live food on occasion. <Strange> I change 15% of the water every two weeks and keep up with the regular maintenance of the skimmer, filter etc.  Could his growth be stunted for some reason? <I think so> What kind of size should he be putting on annually? <Starting at a couple of inches... maybe five or so in a year> Could stress in shipment or holding tanks prior to me buying him, have an effect on his over all growth potential? Thanks Mark <Yes... I would not be overly concerned here... If the fish is eating... it should improve, do fine. Bob Fenner>

Maculosus angel reef safe 8/9/05 Hello, <Hi Rob, MacL here with you today.> Simple question for you - Is a tank-raised maculosus angel less likely to eat corals than a wild caught specimen?  I have a couple of brain corals, star polyps, lots of mushrooms, Zoanthids, two different leathers and various inverts.  I am moving the corals into a separate tank but not for a couple of months.  I have the opportunity to get a tank-raised maculosus angel now.  How bad would he be in my reef for a couple of months?  I have raised an emperor angel in this reef tank and he barely touched anything, he recently died after 4 1/2 years and I would like to try again with a different species. <I did this myself with a tank raised maculosus and the only thing I had problems with were sponges and tunicates. He just chowed down on them. I think with most corals you would be fine.> Thanks for the advice and as always - love the website. Rob Mancabelli

Maculosus Juvenile - Kim Again.. Hi, I am writing my daily question. I have a 2 or 2 1/2 inch Maculosus angel in qt. I got her from LiveAquaria.com. She is one of those tank-bred fish, I don't know if that's better than wild caught, maybe less stressed, all I know is it was a lot cheaper than wild caught! Anyway, she is beautiful, from what I have seen of her. She has been in the tank for going on 3 days and she will come out of hiding, swim around then dart back in the rocks. If she sees me she will watch me then dart in the rocks. I have seen her swim up and down the heater and I saw her playing [?] in the bubbles from the airstone. She is eating and obviously alert, she even nipped at the cleaner shrimp! Is this normal... <It's normal as this angel is somewhat aggressive>  ...or will she calm down with time? Also I wanted to ask you about my 125. I have been cycling, going on about 2 weeks. It has about 110 lbs of live rock, some from old tank. 140 lbs live sand, I have dosed it with BioSpira and Cycle and some powder stuff. Tonight I threw in some Fritz Zyme's [spelling?] TurboStart 900. Before adding the turbo start I noticed algae on my rocks, the new rock didn't have it and the old rock lost it being moved. Is it possible this tank is cycled? <Kim, you should have some waste producers in the 125 to start the cycle.>  I am not adding any fish for a couple of weeks but I was curious with all the algae growth. would it be safe to add fish in one more week [ three weeks cycling] or should I let it go a month? <When ammonia levels are at zero, then you are safe. Thank you for your valuable advice. Kim, many of the answers to your questions can be found on the Wet Web Site. James (Salty Dog)> 

Asfur Beat up by Purple Tang Hi Crew, <Mike> How's everybody in the wet world? My tank is 8x2x2 has been running for 4 months So far 80lbs of live rocks whooo it ain't a joke trying to fill this up. Tank is running excellent current inhabitants: 1 Ocellaris, 5 Green Chromis, 1 Purple Firefish, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, 1 Lawnmower Blenny and my Current addition from the QT the pit-bull Purple Tang!! <Yikes, a new breed!> He's been in the main tank for a week. And I purchased an Asfur that's been in the store for 4 Months 4 inches adult coloration. When I released him in the main tank I didn't bother to QT as I've been watching this guy for quite sometime co'z no money = ) He went straight in to the Purple Tangs hang out place inside the big shipwreck when I turned the lights on he has so much scratches on the body with a long slice on the right side and a deep dent. My jaws just dropped Pomacanthus got his butt whoop by tang what is going on?? <The tang is bigger, badder, was there first...> He ate like crazy and the purple tang was still jerky every time he goes inside the shipwreck freaking shipwreck last night I wanted to throw it away. He is swimming around with pit-bull watching every moves. After I fed them I turned off the lights and went to bed thinking about my beautiful asfur. The next day I sat by the tank turned on the lights he was swimming and the tang seems to calm down except wherever the asfur goes the tang just keeps on following him and swimming closely to the rockwork. My question is I am worried about this scratches and the dent on my Asfur's body will this be permanent or scar? <Likely not> I am watching with fingers cross that he doesn't get a infection what are my chances? <Pretty good... large tank, otherwise healthy specimen... very likely tank bred, reared... so low stress> He is breathing normally. I just need to hear it from you guys. for peace of mind if I lose him my wife would definitely kill me please I need your expertise what should I do?. Thank you again more power to WETWEBMEDIA!!! Regards to all Aquarists!! Mike- <Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel with yellow spots Hello Crew! I have what I think to be an Asfur Angel.  She has been fine, but recently developed yellow spots, fairly large in size covering her body.  There are probably 10 or so.  She is still a juvenile, transitioning to an adult.  Her behavior has not changed, still active and eating.  Is this a problem??  Thanks for your help! Wes. <... have never heard of such a specimen... and have seen this species from very small on up: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/maculosus.htm Please send a pic or two if you can. I suspect this is not a disease, but a color morph. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel with yellow spots Hello Crew! I have what I think to be an Asfur Angel.  She has been fine, but recently developed yellow spots, fairly large in size covering her body.  There are probably 10 or so.  She is still a juvenile, transitioning to an adult.  Her behavior has not changed, still active and eating.  Is this a problem??  Thanks for your help! Wes. <Wes, an Asfur angel will have yellow down the middle of the body.  If that is where the spots are located then I wouldn't worry about the fish's coloration.  It is a part of the process.  As long as the fish is active and eating then you should be O.K. Good Luck. MikeB.>

Maculosus Angel Hi Bob, <Hi Nick, MacL here with you this morning!> I have a 75g marine set up fish only.  It's been running for 2years.  Water parameters are the following: Ammonia 0, Nitrates 20-40 ppm, Nitrites 0, Ph 8.2, temp 78F. <Nitrates are a tad high!> I do weekly H2O changes 10gal pre mix (Instant Ocean).  I recently sold my Majestic angel which I had over a year.  For a supposedly shy and difficult fish this one turned out to be neither. <Really individual fish have individual personalities.>  I then had my LFS order a Maculosus Angel with their next Red Sea order.  It came in and looked great 5", adult color, no blemishes, good respiration rate, no flashing, ate like a pig and was swimming all through out the tank. With this being said, Mr. Mac came home with me. <They are amazing fish indeed.> After quarantine, 4wks, he still looked great.  I then put him in the display.  I don't want to crowd the system, so the only other Red Sea endemic is a Pseudo springeri.  Since his introduction he has hid behind some corals (real powder blue ridge skeletons) for a week. now. <That's actually typical.  I have had mine since he was a teeny tiny quarter sized baby and he still spends an amazing time hiding.> He eats fine. A mixture of angel formula, Mysis and blood worms with HUFA, Veggie Pro, Nori, krill. He only seems to come out to eat then darts behind the corals again.  I read that this is a bold fish, it certainly is brilliant. When will it come out to display itself?  <Usually it just takes some time to get comfortable but they will always uses a safety net and hide.> Thanks, Nick

Maculosus Angel and Maroon Clown I have a 55g tank with a 3.5 in. captive-bred Maroon Clown (Crusty), 2.5 in. captive-bred Orchid Dottyback (Mr. Pink), a 1.5 in. Eibl's Angel (Rasta) and about 50 lbs of rock.  Everyone is getting along great even though Crusty is the dominant fish.  I have an opportunity to get a 2 in. tank raised juvenile Maculosus Angel and I will be stepping up to a 150-180g tank within a year.  I know the Mac would be much smaller than Crusty but I understand that Macs usually establish themselves as the dominant fish.  Do you predict a battle that could end in a casualty if I introduce the Mac? <Possibly... but at least too much tension than I would like... Even the larger tank will not be big enough for more than a year or so... psychologically for the Maculosus> The bigger tank would lower the threshold of potential conflict but because the Mac is tank raised and I don't come across them very often, I want to get it right away.  So I'm seeking expert advice before I get into something that may not turn out good.  Thanks. <I would switch out the Maroon/Crusty if you feel you must have the larger Angel. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel Stocking Concern Dear Bob (or one of your associates): <MikeD here> It's been some time since I've last written, but I would like your input regarding a 180-gallon FOWLR tank that's been up and running very well for exactly 10 months.  This tank houses two smaller wrasses (a golden wrasse and a tricolor wrasse)<Here's hoping that these two stay compatible as they grow.  I'm not familiar with either under those trade names with many wrasses get extremely intolerant of relatives as they grow and mature.>, a pygmy angelfish, a Flameback angelfish < the same problem here....the Flameback IS a pygmy angel, with no way to tell which other pygmy angel you're referring to.  I'd use caution in adding any other small angels as those two have obviously adapted and established territory by now.>, a medium-size Foxface and a beautiful fish I added about four months ago -- a 4-inch Asfur angel with full adult coloration.  The Asfur was so perfect and priced so right ($69.99) that I just had to get him, and I did.  Also in the tank are two cleaner shrimp, four large Trochus snails, and a couple of white sand-sifting starfish. The tank has been doing great and all of these fish get along just fine with very few problems.  Keep in mind the Asfur was added last to this group.  Here's the problem.  The Asfur, despite his smaller size, is in full command of the tank.  I've tried to introduce several fish since he was added and he has zero tolerance for newcomers.  A large Auriga Butterflyfish was restricted to an upper corner of the tank and could not settle in.  He had to be removed.  Other fish have been met with the same determined resistance. I'd like to stock more fish in this tank so I'm interested in your recommendations.  I realize that I could always remove the Asfur, introduce more peaceful fish, and then re-introduce him at a later time.  But, that does not always guarantee compatibility -- especially in tanks with live rock where caves and hiding places are fiercely guarded.<Sadly, in an established tank there are rarely any guarantees, but your idea of segregating the Asfur may well end up being your method of best result.  The Foxface eliminates adding any further Rabbitfish, as this is the most aggressive of the family and usually doesn't tolerate relatives, even remote.>  What other types of fish would you consider adding that would be able to hold their own with a dominant Angel such as this one, yet leave my invertebrates alone?  Would a medium-sized Sohal Tang be able to handle this situation?< A tang, of course , is a possibility, and a Sohal of comparative size to the angel may fight back enough to fit in, keeping in mind that tangs too are usually "one to a tank per family" fish.>   Any other fish without making this tank "too" aggressive?<Possibly a Heniochus (Bannerfish), as far as larger, open water species? While the triggers of the genus Xanthichthys are attractive, active and peaceful for the family, they may well decide to remove the cleaner shrimp, so would be risky and still might be too docile for the angel at the same time. Some of the larger sand-sifting gobies might be worth considering as well, being of a type often ignored by angels.  As you've found out the hard way, small mouthed is not necessarily peaceful.>   As always, thanks for your input. Sam Mancini

Nervous Red Sea Mac Angel Hi Everyone           Firstly I got to say you guys are the absolute best and I browse the site all the time, I need your advice though, yesterday after much thought I purchased my last fish for my 125 gallon FOWLR, A gorgeous Red Sea maculosus Angel, he or she is approx 5 inches long and in perfect condition, after doing a freshwater dip, I slowly acclimatized him and released him into the tank, only trouble is my 7 inch Lunare seems to intimidate my Angel, Max the lunare never bites the angel but just corrals the angel into a corner, after reading that Macs are hearty eaters I tried feeding with clam, squid, cockle even octopus and also tried to feed Julian Sprung's "sea veggies", My Mac shows interest but as soon as he starts to swim towards the food Max the Lunare swims past him slowly fins flared and my Mac hides, he seems to be picking a little at the food but I really don't think its enough imp worried that he will not eat and I am unsure of what exactly to do, this Angel was very expensive ?150, and I'm concerned for his welfare, the only other inhabitant is a 12 inch snowflake moray who is completely docile and well behaved, what can I do? <just let things play out...that angelfish will soon become the king of you aquarium. Don't worry> Is this normal?<yes> Or do I need to remove my Lunare, Please help , I feel like an anxious parent! Thank you Wet Web Media Crew you're the best :-) <keep the lunare in there with the angelfish...they will be fine, IanB>

- Asfur Angel, Sans Question - I have a 55 gallon saltwater tank stocked with a yellow tang, raccoon butterfly, Singapore angel, cowfish, Picasso trigger, Percula clown, social fairy wrasse, and Asfur angel. the fishes sizes go from 2-4 inches, except for the Asfur angel which is 5 inches. <Was there an actual question you had, or did you just want to let us know about your tank which sounds very crowded... Cheers, J -- >

- Asfur Angel Shyness - Regarding Asfur angel fish: is it a shy fish? <Not as a rule, but there is always individual variation.> Mine seems to be hiding a lot. It has only been in my tank for one day. <Well, that explains a lot - do be patient and give this fish some time to feel at home. Imagine being in your home, someone ripping the roof off and transporting you in a plastic bag to another part of the world and plopping you down in a small glass box... you'd be hiding too.>  It is 5" and I have a 55 gallon tank. <This fish will outgrow this tank... do consider a larger system in the near future. Cheers, J -- >

Angelfish Color Variations Hi- <Hi there! Scott F. with you today!> Do all Maculosus grow up to that pretty light blue? Or do some stay darker and look more like P. asfur as  an adult? Thanks guys ! <Many possible variations with these fishes. A friend of mine has an absolutely stunning P. maculosus that is a really deep blue. Like people, fish can vary in appearance based on genetics, water conditions, nutrition, geographic population, etc.> P.S.-My Moorish Idol is at 2yrs this month! Bart <Well, Bart- that is a very impressive achievement! Keep up the good work with this fish! Regards, Scott F.>

Good News From the Quarantine Front! >Hi Marina, >>Hi Kurt, nice to hear back from you. >Well everyone is back in the pool after an 8 week fallow period and everyone is doing fine (keeping fingers crossed). Spotless and eating like pigs.   >>FANTASTIC! >I have only 1 problem. My Mac is picking at the starfish and urchins. >>Aw.. <sniff sniff>, he's being a true angel fish.  I'm Faklempt. >No damage yet, but it has me a bit concerned. My Yellow Tang has 2 more weeks in quarantine but after she is introduced, do you think she might distract the Mac enough to stop this? >>Heh, probably not my friend.  Try adding some Nori (sheets of seaweed) for the angel to nibble on all day long is my suggestion, but now that you'll create "The Poop Machine". >Any ideas, or just time.  Thanks for your advise, help.  Kurt >>It's been my pleasure, Kurt, especially knowing that you're now meeting with success!  Our collective goal is accomplished.  Marina

Mac angel I have a Maculosus angel that's pretty big. When I purchased him, he was about 10" long. Its about 2 years now, he's been in my 240 gallon system. How come he hasn't grown a bit?? I know Macs can get really big . Will he ever get any bigger in my enclosed system?? Thanks, oh he's healthy and has been eating like a horse. Thanks                                     Lee <This may be about as large as this specimen will get in your setting. Psychological factors, metabolite feedback loops... may conspire to limit this specimen. Bob Fenner>

Important: Need clarification on Pomacanthus maculosus and Scarlet Cleaner shrimp Hi Bob, <Jessica> We received this Angel as a gift (shipped) for our 150 gallon tank. I found the fish profile on your site. It stated that he will eat everything in the tank as far as anemones, algae, tubeworms, corals. My question is will he eat Cleaner Shrimp, Red Reef Hermit Crabs and Turbo Snails? <Probably not. If there is sufficient hiding spots for the shrimp, they can likely hide out during molts> He's been in a 40 gallon quarantine tank with a Decorator crab and a Purple lobster for six weeks and couldn't care less. I've moved all my corals to a smaller tank. He seems to have a great personality, if that doesn't sound crazy. <Not crazy at all. This is my opinion as well for this species> He's currently about five inches long and acts like a hungry dog. In the 150, I have a Forcipiger Longirostris, Centropyge bispinosa, Cirrhilabrus luteovittatus, Amphiprion Ocellaris (2), Pseudanthias squamipinnis, and Chrysiptera taupou. They've all been together for almost three years and get along great. The tank has 160 lb. of live rock, EuroReef protein skimmer, U.V., lots of circulation and plenty of swimming room. I know he'll reach 11" to 12." The only other fish that will reach any significant size is the Butterfly at 9", currently 5 1/2 ."  Eventually I'll work my way into a bigger tank, literally. <Yes> Thank you for all the information provided on your web site. You guys are a wealth of information and support! James Thomas Plantation, FL <Thank you for writing. Bob Fenner>

Asfury? Hi to all, <Just PF here this AM Steve> I have noticed a new problem in my tank. My three inch Asfur is from time to time chasing (without any contact) my four inch yellow tail Coris wrasse. The wrasse doesn't seem to go out of his way to avoid him so it doesn't appear that he's afraid of him. Is this expected behavior on the angels part? <Well, not knowing how big your tank is, I really can't answer your question. Remember that in the wild, most fish have territories in the yards, even a large tank is a very, very small slice of ocean.> I researched these inhabitants to death before putting them together <Good for you, wish that everyone had your attitude> and I'd hate to think I would have to get rid of one, is this playful behavior or aggression? <Hard to tell, but since the Coris isn't stressing, I'd just keep my eye on them.> The Asfur does chase my Coral Beauty once in a great while as well but leaves everyone else alone. Any thoughts or suggestions, I expect I should keep an eye on things and hope things don't escalate. <Well, if the frequency/intensity of the chasing increases, then you might want to consider relocating one of them, or getting a bigger tank. Hopefully I've given you some things to consider/use. Have a good day, PF>

Half Moon Angelfish Is the Half Moon the same thing as a "Map Angel".  What other names are common for this fish?  The Half Moon is definitely not the same as an Asfur Angelfish, correct? Thanks for your abundant help! :) <... time to send you to fishbase.org... You will find the answers to the above there by searching the members of the genus Pomacanthus. There are MANY common names for these fishes. Bob Fenner> Elizabeth K. Birdwell

Re: purple moon hi bob its me again the angel that i referred to as a purple moon is a maculosus angel.                     thanks look forward to your reply                       Karl from New Quay Cornwall UK <I see (sort of). Our coverage of this species and its sympatric is posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/maculosus.htm and the Related FAQs (linked, in blue, at top) on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Angel In Distress Hi, <hey there! Scott F. with you!> Your site is wonderful!  I've gotten a lot of great information here.  I have a problem I'm hoping you can help me with.  It's an emergency. <Let's get to it!> I have an asfur angel, about 3" long, with adult coloration.  I bought her last summer from FFE.  She looked pretty good and I kept her quarantined for several months.  She was growing very slowly.  When I put her in the 120 tank with live rock this fall she quickly developed HLLE.   <Bummer...> I followed advice I read on WWM and greatly improved her diet (Angel Formula with sponge, Nori, Marine Cuisine, Prime Reef, Formula Two, supplementation with Selcon and Garlic Elixir).  Also grounded the tank.  The HLLE was clearing up nicely.   <Nice work!> Tank parameters, ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrates-10-20ppm, S.G. 1.024, pH 8.0, temperature 74-78 degrees F. About 70 lbs live rock (more coming), AquaC skimmer, a couple of powerheads for circulation, Aquafuge 18" refugium with Caulerpa and Miracle Mud.  The tank is the JetStream by Perfecto, with two Tidepool sumps (I removed the bio-wheels). <Sounds nice> Tank mates:  5-6" harlequin tusk fish, 2-3" flame hawk, 3-4" mimic tang, 2-3" tomato clown (added in the last two weeks, had been quarantined eight weeks, appears to be sick).  No apparent conflicts. Around the time I set up the refugium, I had skimmer failure, fixed that, then had main pump fail.  Added a hang-on tank skimmer (BakPak) and a few powerheads for greater in-tank circulation.  Fixed main pump within a week.  Parameters didn't seem too far off, other fish looked fine.  Noticed cloudy eye on the angel (about 3 weeks ago). Around the time all of the above described things were happening (added refugium with Miracle Mud, skimmer and pump failure, addition of sick clown) the angel developed cloudy eye in one eye.  This became Popeye, then cloudy eye/Popeye in the other eye.  She was still eating well, so I continued with the good diet, feeding 1-2x per day and also fed first thing in the morning with Tetra medicated flake. I did not remove her because I would have to remove all the live rock to get her out.  I didn't want to treat the tank and mess up my inverts (mostly snails) and live rock. <Well, that was a good decision- never treat in the main tank> I was hoping good water conditions, good diet and the medicated flake would solve the problem.  I'm not very confident using medication anyway.  It seems like it's too easy to kill with the cure. <well, most aquarium medications are very safe if used per manufacturer's instructions> I monitored nitrates, they have been below 10ppm. For the last two days, she has not eaten much if anything.  Seems to be blind, eyes are so clouded.  She has been shimmying in some rocks.  I thought she died tonight, she was still and jammed in some rocks.  Then she moved!  I scooped her out and placed her in the quarantine tank.  I added ParaGuard at the recommended dosage (basically a malachite green solution).  There's a good chance she won't make it through the night. If she does, can you suggest any treatment? <Well, this seems to me to be more of a bacterial infection, rather than a parasitic one...I'd use an antibiotic, like Maracyn> Also, my other fish are not looking as healthy as they used to.  The tusk fish is scratching his body against the rocks, the flame hawk has lost color and sits in strong current and the mimic tang spends a lot more time hiding.  So far, everyone is eating. <Hmm...the symptoms that you're mentioning could apply to a number of different diseases, such as Amyloodinium, Cryptocaryon, or possibly even others...Most of the descriptions of the conditions of the other fishes seem indicative of a parasitic infection...Lots of times, secondary infections follow, which may be what the Asfur is experiencing. I'd get everyone out of the main tank, and set up another QT for these fishes...I'd attempt to confirm which condition you are dealing with...review the WWM FAQs for information. Freshwater dips are a fine start, but the condition of the fishes may dictate a more aggressive treatment, such as Copper Sulphate (assuming a parasitic infection).> Do I need to catch the fish and dip them in fresh water or medication? <A good supplementary treatment> Should I treat the fish and tank with hyposalinity?  If so, what S.G. do you recommend? <I really think that you need to utilize medication...Not that hyposalinity doesn't work-but I think that medication is easier and more effective if administered properly> Any help would be greatly appreciated!  Please "reply to all" so I can check your answer at work and home. Lisa Darmo <Ok, Lisa- I hope that I've given you a starting point for attacking this disease effectively! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Learning From Tragedy Scott, <At your service> Thank-you for your quick reply.  The angel didn't make it. <Really sorry to hear that. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, the fish has suffered damage beyond our ability to repair...At the very least, if this was a learning experience for you, the fish will have not died in vain> I will follow your advice to quarantine and treat the other fish.  It is still not clear what, if anything, they have. No visible spots on anyone, Tuskfish only rubbing a little.  Flame hawk still pale.  Clown seems to have Lymphocystis. Everyone eating well.  Since the angel was removed everyone looks better, don't know why.  Is it possible they knew she was very sick and got distressed?? <Hard to say, but a stressed out fish is certainly prone to many diseases. Quick action is required to keep a potential large-scale problem in this tank> I don't want to wait until things are so bad that I treat too late. <Agreed> Is there a course of treatment you would recommend that I do now?  I was thinking freshwater dip, then copper-formalin treatment.  Should I treat for the disease that could possibly kill them fastest (Amyloodinium?). <Well, I'm not one for just experimenting with medications. In this instance, however, we may be dealing with Amyloodinium or Cryptocaryon, so I think that the copper idea is worth a shot. Follow the manufacturer's directions exactly, and only administer copper in a separate treatment tank. Measure copper levels regularly, and observe the fishes carefully> Whatever they (may) have has me stumped. Thanks so much for your help.  Just a few other questions... 1)  What is the appropriate treatment for the quarantine tank I put the angel into before I add other fish?  It has a bare bottom some rock for cover and an internal filter (Duetto) for circulation.  Do I need to discard all water, do any bleaching, leave it fallow for 4-5 months? <A quarantine tank is not a permanent feature, so you need to break down and clean the tank and sterilize the filter media after each use. Since this aquarium has had a very sick fish in it, it's not a bad idea to do this before adding your other fishes. On the other hand, since you are in an emergency situation, I'd just change most of the water in the quarantine tank, add new water from the main tank, get the fishes in there, and medicate with copper. Also, remove the rocks, as they potentially bind with and absorb copper. Use inert materials, such as PVC pipe sections, for shelter for the fishes> 2)  How long after treating the other fish (but not the tank) should I wait before adding another angel fish to this tank?  I plan to quarantine any new fish for six weeks. <I'd let the main tank go fallow for at least six weeks. Most parasitic diseases require hosts, and the population of parasites will crash if deprived of hosts for an extended period> 3 Is there an angel fish you would recommend for this tank?  120H tank (5'long), AquaC skimmer in sump, live rock, plenty of circulation, decent lighting (PCs).  Tankmates: harlequin tusk, flame hawk, tomato clown, mimic tang, zebra moray (currently in another tank).  I loved the asfur, but am afraid to try one again.  Would you recommend the maculosus?  There have been tank raised maculosus available recently at a good price.  What kind of experience have people had with them?  How about a red sea emperor? <The tank-raised maculosus angels have proven to be very hardy and adaptable. Emperors can be somewhat difficult in many instances, if they are not collected properly. Smaller specimens adapt more readily to captive life. Honestly, I'd avoid a "full-sized" angel in anything less than a 300 gallon tank. People hate to hear me say that, but if you've ever seen a full-sized Emperor or other Pomacanthus species in the wild, you'll realize that these guys can reach almost 15 inches in length, and roam over a territory the size of a football field. It's just not right to confine them to a tank that's under 8 feet in length, IMO. I'd go for a Centropyge angelfish, like a C. eibli, which can reach a more modest 5 inches or so, or even a Lemonpeel (although these fish can be quite touchy if not properly collected and acclimated). Most Centropyge seem to adapt better to captive life, and, once settled in a system that is to their liking, can live long, happy lives, and reward you with many years of enjoyment> The whole reason I set up the 120 was because I wanted one spectacular large angel and the tusk fish to be the main occupants. <Well, spectacular doesn't always mean "big"! Think a bit different than everyone else, and you'll create a colorful, spectacular little world in their with modest sized fishes!> Thanks for any advice you can give me.  You guys are great! Lisa <Thanks for the kind words. Best of luck to you, Lisa! You'll be fine! Feel free to write back any time! Don't let the recent setbacks discourage you. Steady as she goes! regards, Scott F>

Disease Strikes! Hello to all of you. <Hi there! Scott F. with you!> I've got a three inch asfur with no external symptoms other than a very small increase in breathing and the two side fins a getting ragged on the trailing edges. He's been eating less than normal for the past two to three days, and has been hanging in one spot throughout the day. I gave him a Methylene blue bath yesterday and today I gave him an eight minute freshwater bath. A new symptom today, swimming at times at a 45degree angle, gilling isn't labored more than normal. My Q-tank is in the middle of  being cycled so I can't put him in there. Am I doing the correct things, what else can I do, should or shouldn't be doing. Thank you in advance. <Well, this sounds like it could be a number of things, ranging from some type of stress reaction to metabolite poisoning to the possibility of Amyloodinium, which is very contagious, and fatal if left untreated. The increased respiration and hanging around in one space is of some concern; glad to see that it's getting better. However, I'd operate under the suspicion that you're dealing with a potentially serious condition. I'd get this guy into the hospital tank as soon as possible for more observation and/or treatment. Look for other symptoms, such as spots, excessive body slime, scratching, etc. Your idea of freshwater dips is a good one. At least until you can get him into a hospital tank, I'd keep up the dips on a regular basis. Read up on the wetwebmedia.com site about Amyloodinium and Cryptocaryon, just to see if this is what you are dealing with. You may need to utilize more effective medications if this is the case. Also, if this is a parasitic disease, you may need to remove all of the fishes in your tank for observation and treatment. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F>

Asfur Angel and tank mates Bob, this is the guy who merged the 55 to the 225 (72X24X30) over the weekend.   I believe it went very successfully as my water quality seems to be fine (no surge at this point).  Once the cloudy water cleared up I was ok (so far so good). <Ahh, good> I plan on waiting about a month or so to add other fish.   I am going to use my old 55 for a quarantine tank.   <Good plan> I want to eventually add a few fish only as I believe in keeping these fish happy for the long-term (I have kept Angel fish in the past for 10 + years and they really can become a "Family" pet).  I know I want to add a Sohal tang and possibly a Red Sea Raccoon).  By then my Asfur will be territorial.   How do you recommend the order for doing this or will it even work?   <The Sohal should go in last... put in the Raccoon.... and maybe a few Golden/Gold Mask Butterflies... first> I believe the Sohal will go in ok but the Asfur may attack the butterfly???   What other Red Sea fish would make a good tank mate for the Asfur.    <Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/redseafwgv1.htm> I plan on having no more than 4 fish that grow to any size and many inverts (shrimp, starfish and the like).   Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for all your help.   Over the years, I have found you to be the most knowledgeable, assessable, and helpful person on any subject of Marine Aquaria. Thanks again for all you do. Andrew <Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel and moving to a larger tank- Emergency please help!!!! This message is for Bob if possible. Bob, I got my 225 today.  I moved all the rock and sand to the new tank.  They brought the precirculated water.  Unfortunately, I will not have my new big skimmer until Tuesday. My problem is we finished the tank at 5:30.   It is now 9:30 and the water is still very milky from my old sand (the AragAlive they brought is not the culprit).   My asfur is in a cooler with an air pump.   Can I add the Asfur back while the water is still milky?  Or, should he stay in the cooler overnight.   He is probably in about 8 gallons of water. <Given the choice I'd move the fish to the tank. Bob Fenner> Thank you so much

Star Destroyer! Hi Wet Web Crew, My Juvenile (1-2") tank raised Map Angel (Pomacanthus maculosus) just tore apart my orange Linckia star, two legs are now missing. <Bummer) Now I have the star in plastic container inside the tank.  They are both in my 80 gal reef and have been together for about a month.  I have noticed the Angel picking at some other corals (leathers) but not doing much damage but now he needs to be moved. <It's just going to get worse, in most cases. Good idea to relocate him before more damage is incurred> I was wondering if I could put him in my 75 gal FOWLR, the current inhabitants are a 2' zebra moray 18" snowflake moray and a 2" fuzzy dwarf lion (Dendrochirus brachypterus).  They have been with smaller fish before and have been fine (1" blue tang).  Thank you for your reply and providing this great website. <I think that he will be okay for a while in that tank. However, this tank is getting to be on the crowded side. The fishes in that tank are messy, voracious eaters that can degrade the water quality in even the best-maintained aquariums in relatively short time. Plus, the size that the angelfish will ultimately attain dictates a much larger aquarium (150gal plus) if you want him to live a long, healthy life. Good luck! regards, Scott F>

Asfur Question This question is for Bob Fenner if possible. Bob, one more question about my Asfur.  He is eating great and survived the room painting.   My 225 will be here in a few weeks. <Ahh, good> I have one problem that started a few days ago.   My Asfur has one cloudy eye.  Not really bulging, just cloudy.  I noted some small opaque spots on his side fins (causing some white patches on the side fins) and eyes.  Much larger spot than ick and again, kind of opaque.   I started putting some small amounts of Ampicillex on his food since this started (it does not seem to be helping much but I have used it over the years with great success this way for other infections).   This makes me think I may have some sort of parasite (perhaps flukes) that I have no experience with.   I was planning on doing a freshwater dip.  What should I do to help him out? Thanks for the help. Andrew <I would do nothing extraordinary. This opacity will fade with the move to your new system. Bob Fenner>

Asfur Angel and moving to a larger tank Bob, thank you for the help with the Asfur.  He is starting to eat my other offerings (Prime Reef, Mysis Shrimp and the like). <Suspected as much> I am taking your advice on the Larger tank size. I was originally going to move my 5 year old 60 gallon reef to a 110.  I am now considering a 225 (for about the same price because my local fish store ordered and the person changed his mind). The LFS will deliver the new tank and bring the premixed RO salt water. <What service!> My question is will this much larger and new water cause a surge harmful to my Asfur?   <A surge?> I plan on reusing as much of my water and all my rock and sand.   I will add new sand (AragAlive) and dry base rock to help form the larger reef. With so much new water I was concerned the tank my go through a "cycle" again.  Please advise. <There should be no re-cycle event... all should work out fine. Bob Fenner> Thank you, Andrew Elstein

Asfur Angel This message is for Bob Fenner if possible.   Bob, I spoke to you a little over a week ago about getting my Asfur Angel to eat (what I want him to eat).  I have tried every kind of frozen food (Formula 1, 2, angel formula, Blood Worms, Mysis shrimp, Prime Reef, fresh fish, shrimp and the like.   He is doing/acting great.  He is quite territorial also.   He loves live brine shrimp (which I have tried to not give him) but refuses to all but nibble anything else (If I did not know better I would say he is doing this intentionally!!!)  He wont really even touch Seaweed.  He does constantly nibble on the macro algae (unidentified red brushy, and Caulerpa) and the live rock. Any idea on what I can do to get this guy to see things my way?  I am worried now as it has been a few weeks of this.   He still looks great though and is not loosing weight (as best I can tell). <Not to worry... very likely this fish will soon start eating all hungrily. Do try soaking the assorted foods in a vitamin and HUFA mix (variously sold as appetite stimulants in our interest) for several minutes ahead of offering> His new big tank is on order so he should be happy (my daughter loves this fish and calls him "The King of the Red Sea", cute for only being 5 years old). Thanks again for your help and Happy Holidays!!! Andrew <And to you and yours. Bob Fenner>

Re: Asfur Angel This message is to Bob Fenner if possible.   It is a continuation from a prior message.    Bob, the Asfur is doing well.  He is actually turning out to not be very shy.  He loves to eat the different organisms off the live rock (Caulerpa, and I guess red colored sponge or macro algae) and chase the other fish.  He is not eating the prepared food I am offering (Formula 2, Angel Formula, Flake, Sea Weed on a clip, and even Julian Sprung's veggie flakes).  To try and get him started, I got some live Brine (I know not good nutritionally but only live LFS had) and he loves this stuff. <No problems feeding Artemia occasionally... analogous to you and I "healthy" candy bars> What should I do to try and get him to eat?   He is not skinny at all thanks to my 5 + year old live rock but I got to get him to eat for the long-term. <Keep trying the prepared foods... or to save time, money, consider making your own... blended meaty seafoods and a binder, frozen into cubes, or into flat sheets that are easy to break chunks off of. Bob Fenner> Thanks for the help

Asfur or the Big Mac? Red Sea Angelfish  Hi wet web media crew. Hope it is ok, I attached a pic. I was wondering which species it is..... P. Maculosus, OR P. Asfur ? <An asfur> Reading the WWM page on differentiating, Bob says how the yellow tail in juv. is the give-away. However, I have seen loads of pics on TV (documentary on red sea), and nearly every Mac there has a yellow tail. <Generally more whitish> Mine has a blue bar at the edge of his yellow tail.... I haven't seen that in pic of Asfurs. Mine also has the dark blue flecking on his forehead if you look closely - again I haven't seen that on Asfurs. Finally, mine sometimes tones down his colors to a paler blue, very like the pale blue of adult Mac pics I've seen. He is a little under 3" body length (little over 3" inc tail). Anyway, your judgment on this would be appreciated. Thanks for taking a look. Regards, Matt >PS. if you guys want a pic for the wet web site.... no prob.s, coz I note you're missing one at a sort of intermediate stage.... or even for wet web photo's. <Thank you. Bob Fenner>

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