Majestic Angel Getting "Thin in the Head" - 01/28/07
Hi Crew,
<<Hello Jeff>>
Love your site and all the wonderful information!!
<<Good to know>>
I have a beautiful majestic angel that is getting a little thin just above the eyes.
<<Likely a nutritional deficiency>>
He seems to be very healthy otherwise and eats well.  The aquarium is a 210-gallon FOWLR and (with the exception of a little hair algae), is very healthy.  I have been enjoying this hobby since the early 80's and to help finance it I worked part time at the LFS for several years.  While working at the store I remember the manager always telling us to avoid fish that were "thin in the head" so now I am getting a little worried.
<<Indeed>>
I have been feeding this fish with a number of foods including frozen angel formula, Nori, mysis shrimp, plankton, and herbivore pellets.
<<A good mix of offerings, but...>>
He seems to enjoy just about everything I feed him.  Can you tell me what causes this problem and offer some suggestions?
<<These type maladies can sometimes be secondary to environmental issues (e.g. - poisoning/less than optimum water conditions...you may want to consider adding some Poly-Filter to your filter flow-path) but this is almost assuredly a case of malnutrition.  Even though the fish eats well, there is something (vitamins/essential fatty acids) deficient in its diet.  I would continue feeding what you have, but I would make the addition of New Life Spectrum pellets soaked in Selcon to its diet.  I can't tell you what it is, but there has been anecdotal proof of the Spectrum pellets allowing some advanced aquarists a measure of success with difficult even impossible to feed (nutritionally) specimens such as Zanclus cornutus.  I would also get a vitamin supplement (Boyd's Vita-Chem) and alternate this with the Selcon...the vitamins can also be simply added to the system water and will be taken up as the fish "drinks" its environment>>
Thanks,
Jeff Jones
<<Happy to assist, Eric Russell>>

Blind clownfish?   1/24/07
I have had a maroon clown fish for almost 3 years, he is about 4 inches in length. During the last week we noticed that he would not eat, all though it looked like he was looking for food. He hangs out under a rock ledge, seems to be  swimming fine and shows no signs of any kind of disease.
  He usually chases a small clown and flame angel when they get to close,
<Mmm, this system is too small... beh. anomaly... these fishes wouldn't get near the Premnas otherwise>
but over the last two days  they swim right up to him with no problem. My wife called me today and said I  don't think that clown can see,
<Possibly>
so I tried to feed him by hand and can put my  finger right I front of him and him does not even move. Do you have any answer.  if he does not star to eat I don't think he is going to make is?
Mark
<Again, maybe... Do you utilize vitamin supplementation? Along with periodic iodine/ide addition to foods, the water, this may reverse the blindness here (avitaminosis)... Please see WWM re. The search tool, indices... Bob Fenner>

Blindness...Three Blind Mice Or Fish  - 05/22/2006
Hi Everyone  <Hello Robert>
Here's a question I'll bet you've never had before. Is there a disease that marine fish get that causes them to go blind? I have had several
fish who appear fine, just waste away and die and the only symptom I can see is they appear to not be able to see the food when it's put in the tank. They bite at it as it floats by and act like they want to eat but can't seem to get it to their mouth. I feed brine shrimp, marine flake
and for the tangs seaweed select plus what they can pick off the rocks whenever they want.
<Robert, there are bacterial infections that can cause blindness and the fish need to be treated at the first sign with anti-bacterial medication.  This can be triggered by poor water quality and nutrition.  Your diet of brine shrimp and marine flake isn't helping much.  Do consider adding more nutritious foods to the remaining fish.  Check out the following link.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/feeding.htm>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Robert

What should I do about my Comet/Roundhead that has a lump in its throat  - 03/09/2006
Dear Reefers,
<Okay>
I have a successful (with your help) 4 foot LPS reef tank with 3 fish. It was set up in August 2003, is a natural skimmerless tank, with 3.5 inch DSB, ample LR and a reverse lit Caulerpa sump. As far as I am aware all parameters are ideal.
The first fish introduced in April 2004 was a Comet ( C. altivelis) . It started at 3 inches and is now approximately 6 inches long.
In September 2005 I introduced a One Spot Fox Face (Siganus unimaculatus) in order to control Caulerpa and other algae in the main tank, which it has done superbly. Since then the Siganus has grown considerably and is now larger than the Comet. The Siganus has venomous spines (lots!) but as far as I know there are no other venomous inhabitants. The only other fish is a harmless little Kole Tang.
The problem arose on 29 December 2005, when the Comet appeared unsettled and would not eat. Up until then it had fed every day. The next day it was hiding behind the rocks and did not come out at all for 5 days until 3 January 2006. It was breathing heavily, with its mouth permanently gaping. It also had a noticeable lump on its throat.
<Good observation>
Ever since then the Comet has remained in this apparently distressed state, and it appears that the lump is growing - it is larger than a pea. The Comet now only eats every 2 or 3 days, and its mouth is in a permanent gape. The other fish, corals, snails and hermit are all fine.
I originally thought that the Comet had rammed the Siganus and been caught by one of its venomous spines. If so, would this not have cleared up by now?
<Likely so, yes>
Could it be that the Comet swallowed a Cerith snail or a crab and still has this stuck in its throat?
<Possibly>
If the lump is a cancerous growth, why did it appear to happen almost overnight?
<... Another not-too unlikely possibility is a thyroid (actually diffuse Chromaffin tissues in fishes) anomaly... analogous to "goiter" in humans... From a deficiency (or surprisingly from an overdose) of iodine/ide... Do you dose Lugol's? Do you test for?>
Please help me decide what to do now.
How long do Comets normally expect to live in captivity? Is the Comet likely to recover?
<Can live several years, can recover>
Should I carry on feeding it until it dies naturally, or should I attempt to intervene and apply euthanasia? If so, is there a recommended method for fish of this size?
Many thanks,
Best wishes from the UK,
Eric Brightwell
<I would soak some of the types of foods this animal is feeding on in an iodide prep. prior to offering. Bob Fenner>

See Food Seafood Fresh and Frozen  12/9/05
Hi-
<Hello... John here with you today.>
Recently some of the fish in my tank recovered from some type of illness. (These are very hardy guys who never get sick.) I feed them a variety of food: frozen smelts, fresh calamari, shrimp, salmon, other filets, as well as pellets. I was wondering if maybe these fresh or frozen foods could be carrying germs, illness or fungus from when these foods were alive.
<Possibly.>
<<Don't ever feed fishes other fishes, for just this reason!  Stick to invertebrates.  Marina>>
Maybe this is what made mine sick. I just heard on public radio yesterday that a lot of the fish we buy in markets for ourselves could have had health problems problems because overfishing is causing fishermen to have to be catching less healthy sea creatures.
<Undoubtedly.... we are fishing the seas almost dry.>
<<This is not entirely true, what is far more problematic (especially in the case of salmon) is the current state of fish farming practices.  Much has been written, reported, and the data is showing that aquaculture can be QUITE detrimental - to the environment, to the livestock being raised, and to the wild stock that comes in contact with farmed stocks.  Much more of a problem in presentation of disease than overfishing.  Marina>>
Whether this is true or not, is there something we should be doing to make sure the food is healthy for our aquariums? Cooking it can't be the answer, I'm sure. A very long time ago a vet said that freezing fish for at least three months can kill germs and fungus. What are your thoughts on this?
<I freeze all fresh food for at least 24 hours, and then thaw it out in a cup of tank water before feeding. This should kill most of the parasites.>
<<Use human consumption standards - freeze to ZERO degrees Fahrenheit at MINIMUM.  Marina>>
Thank you so much-
Dana Mardaga.
ps- my fish are doing much better. I did lots of water changes, upped the temperature, and added some salt to the tank. Tried a couple antibiotics, but I don't know if that helped.
<I would avoid treating fish if you cannot clearly identify the ailment. Do check your water parameters - ammonia, nitrites and nitrates, and perform water changes accordingly. Do not over-feed, especially with such messy, meaty food. Best regards from Shanghai, John>

Crown Squirrelfish Dilemma
Hello all:
I have a question regarding my Crown Squirrelfish. We have a pair and it is great fun to watch them interact...a much underrated fish, IMHO. One squirrel has developed what may best be described as goiter under his mouth. It looks like he has developed a huge chin. He is breathing rapidly and seems to hide in a cave most of the day. However, when it is feeding time, he eats like a horse!
<Good>
I would appreciate any advice that you can provide that may remedy the condition. By the way, the other squirrel is A OK.
Thanks,       Mitch
<Such fish goiters often respond favorably to iodine/iodide treatment. I would add such a supplement (they come in a few formats) to the fish's foods and directly to the water. Please read here re this atom and its use: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/iodfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

French Angel
Hi Bob how are you? 
<James for Bob today> 
I have a concern involving a 6.5 inch French angel in a hospital tank. I just revived this angel about two weeks ago from a local fish store and he's doing fine other than a pinched stomach and some fuzzy white spots all over. I am currently treating with formalin and malachite green after searching the FAQ's/forums. But, what I can't find is how to treat a pinched stomach besides foods and supplementation. I have tried numerous foods including frozen marine angel food, marine algae, and all types of shrimp and supplementing these foods when I feed with Selcon, vitamin C, garlic, etc. and nothing seems to make this pinched stomach go away. Any suggestions? Right now water quality and levels are just fine, and I am putting him in my 150 gal after the ich is gone so the water quality will be better there. What should I do? He's beautiful with a nice personality and I spent a lot for him so I don't wanna lose him.
<Christine, Is the angel actually taking food, or are you trying all these foods with no success? Also read the link I will post here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/paru.htm . James (Salty Dog)>

Angel/Pinched Stomach
Thanks James, but quite frankly with all due-respect, that article really doesn't answer any of my questions. I guess I wanted advice directly from the source (the more experienced aquarists like yourself). And, yes my angel is eating VERY well, very hearty eater of almost everything I feed him. Can you help me or no? 
<Christine, now that I know the angel is eating, the only other thing that comes to mind is that your fish may very well have internal parasites. Here is another link you can scroll through. http://www.google.com/custom?q=Pinched+stomach&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com. Hopefully you can find some info here on the problem. I'm thinking you may want to try a medicated food. I've never experienced a problem like this so I am at a loss. I will direct your original question to Mr. Fenner, He may have additional input. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Angel/Pinched Stomach - How to Handle?
Mon, 7 Mar Bob, forwarding to you for any more suggestions. Christine replied to this stating a link I posted didn't help her. She has given me a little more info but my only thought on this was internal parasite(s). I stated this to her and sent another (Pinched stomach) link to her this a.m.
James
<I would have suggested actual force-feeding at this point/juncture... with a plastic catheter... two people (one to hold the fish...)... a mash of meaty foods, Selcon or equivalent. Bob Fenner>

Re: Angel/Pinched Stomach - How to Handle? II
Bob, Said the angel is eating like a pig.
James
<Ahh, did not see this. I would suggest adding Metronidazole/Flagyl to this fish's foods then... very likely a digestive protozoan at play... and this will "get it". BobF>

Disease from fish food?
Hello Crew. I have a quick question for you regarding disease from a food mixture that I made. I took an oyster, several clams and several mussels and ground them up in a blender, and then froze the mixture for maybe 12 hours before feeding some to my tank. I know freezing is supposed to kill parasites, but my coral beauty angel fish has a dusty looking rash on his face the day after feeding. My other fish look fine.
I was wondering if I should have allowed the mixture to be frozen longer than 12 hours to assure that there were no parasites or disease in the mixture. It has been 2-3 weeks now and besides the rash there is no heavy breathing or other sick behavior by the angel. 
Thanks for your help. I know if anyone can help me you guys can, and I really appreciate all the help you give all of us who read your web site.
Cord.
<Half a day should've been long enough to kill all pathogens... Perhaps the food influenced your water quality negatively... Or could be entirely unrelated... Am tempted to write that you could try an experiment with another tank, feeding this food to see if there are similar results... Good observations, writing. Bob Fenner>

Sight problems
I have a Harlequin Tusk and a Lion Fish both whom I notice are having a  problem seeing the food when I put it in the tank. This is leading to them not  eating. I notice the Tusk and The Lion fish go after the food but miss it. 
<Is the food too fast? Can they truly not see it? What type of lighting is on the tank, very strong lighting can mess with lionfish eyes.> 
Is this a disease I and treat?  and what can I treat it with? 
<Are they just lethargic in general or is it only with the food? Let me know MacL>
Thank you
<<ed. note... sight problems with such predators after some months in captivity is often a sign of dietary deficiency and is very serious, for having allowed to advance this far. Immediate correction of diet (improved variety) with vitamins and lipids is critical. Fishes allowed to eat only one or two types of frozen foods and/or live freshwater feeder prey are likely candidates for this problem. I like using Dick Boyd's Vita-Chem and Selcon together with my fish foods for vitamins and HUFAs. Anthony>>

Lionfish eye problems
So I assume both the Lion and Tusk will DIE? how can I help  them?
....""I have a Volitans Lion Fish and a Harlequin Tusk and it seem as if  they
can't see the food they are trying to eat.  They go after the food I  put in
the tank (freeze dried Krill, Frozen Krill, plankton, algae flakes, etc)  
however it seems as if they are biting at the food but missing it. I have  checked
there eyes and there doesn't seem to be signs of  cloudiness or any  pop eye, or
anything for that matter. <This is a classic situation.   Predators,
especially lions are known to go blind when fed exclusively of or  high in krill.  It
is hypothesized that this is because of a missing  nutritional element.  To
the best of my knowledge, this is not  reversible.>:::
<< Well it may not be looking good, but I'd still be trying things.  I'd start feeding them other foods, and maybe use a skewer to hold the food in front of them until they finally do get it.  It may take a few minutes, but if they don't eat they'll die.  So really, you have nothing to lose by trying other things. >>
<<  Blundell  >>

Nutritional Diseases (5/23/04)
I know this is last minute but I'd like some information ASAP. tonight would be FABULOUS! <Sorry for the delay.>
I can't find any information on nutritional diseases anywhere! there have to be some, and I have some ideas as to what they might be but believe me, they're very uneducated guesses. please if you can, any information and websites including any information on fish nutritional diseases. gratefully, Sally Skerys
<I am sorry that I am unaware of any specific info. I'd suggest a Google search of terms such as "fish nutrition," "nutritional diseases of fish," "nutritional deficiencies of fish," or related terms. You should be able to find a lot that way, but it is work. Here are three books that might be of use if you can buy them or find them at the library: Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment by Edward J. Noga; Tropical Fishlopaedia : A Complete Guide to Fish Care by Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess; Manual of Fish Health by Dr. Chris Andrews, Adrian Exell, and Dr. Neville Carrington.
Hope this helps. Steve Allen.> 

Damsel Getting Better (4/13/03)
  Hello,
  Steve Allen responded to my question regarding a sick Damsel a week ago, and I thank him. The bugger (the damsel, not Steve) didn't eat for a week and was acting vaguely strange--but no clear symptoms. I decided to add some Epsom salt just in case that was it. (This fish had that problem before--clearly--but acted, well, differently.) Not sure if it was that this time, but the damsel slowly improved and began eating again. My new question is about foods. Could bad food cause illness and/or constipation? I have very few fish, and the food in the too large containers lasts longer than the expiration dates, I am sure. <Hard to say what "expiration" dates really mean. It's highly doubtful that the food becomes harmful, but its nutritional value goes down gradually over time.> Why do they make the food containers so large? (Yes, rhetorical :-)  Should I freeze some of it upon opening? Thanks to all! <You might consider adding frozen foods such as mysis, squid, etc. Variety is important both for nutrition and to prevent constipation. Another option would be to buy seafood in the grocery store and chop it finely (partially frozen in a food processor should shred to an edible size. Then freeze in in small portions in snack bags or one of those mini ice-cube trays. I buy a seafood mix at Albertson's that includes squid, mussels, octopus and other disgusting things that fish love. There's also a great recipe for frozen food in Bob Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist." Hope this helps, Steve Allen.> Lance

- Strange Wrasse Affliction? -
We have a green bird wrasse that has been in our tank for about 9 months.  The wrasse has seemingly thrived up until recently.  He is still eating well and actively swimming but has come down with some sought of white, almost washed out look on the sides of its head.  Could this be the bird wrasse equivalent of HLLE? <Doubt that.> Any possible help and insight would be greatly appreciated. <Well... provided you haven't added anything new as of late, then I would guess this is probably a nutrition related blanching. Do you feed this fish the same thing for every meal - or is the diet more diverse. This fish should be getting a mix of meaty foods with the occasional green seaweed item thrown in.>
Thanks
Al
<Cheers, J -- >

Treatment Duration and Carbon
Hello,
<Hi there>
My false perc clown has an apparent intestinal blockage and I have placed him in a treatment tank and applied Epsom salts in 1 level TSP per gallon as per Bob Fenner's recommendation I found on the FAQ's. He seems Ok but I haven't seen any change or 'movement' yet in several hours. It might be hard to see when it happens anyway. The question is: How long should I leave him in there? Hours? Days? Any help would be appreciated.
<Days should be fine at this concentration. Do monitor aspects of nitrogenous build-up (ammonia, nitrite) and have water, media available to mediate their accumulation>
Also, I have a general question about carbon. Does anyone know exactly what chemicals it is supposed to remove? Specifically, does it remove calcium, carbonate, and iodine? Is there a list somewhere? Should I expect to add more calcium and buffer than normal when using it?
<Of the materials listed, only iodine is removed appreciably. You can use your search tools to find much, MUCH more on activated carbon use in aquatic husbandry on the net. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Rob Douglass

Oh My Belly!
Hello Mr. Fenner!
<Howdy>
My fiancé and I are pretty new reef tank owners and have been successfully managing our little 38gallon tank for about 2 years. We have a problem with "Lenny" our Bicolor Blenny. Lenny has been with us for about as long as we have had the tank with no issues. He shares the tank with a Yellow Tang, 3-striped Damsel, a Percula Clown and a Cleaner Shrimp.
Everyone has been pretty happy together for nearly a year (no new additions) but in the last few weeks Lenny has been getting a HUGE belly. He can hardly fit into his favorite holes in the live rock. I have poured through your site trying to see if there is anything similar mentioned but only came across the following options:
- Pregnant (not unless he can do it him/herself :)
- Too fat (perhaps, but why now?)
- Constipated (could be but there are no "lumps" as mentioned in an FAQ about a similar issue with a Blenny so I was wary of trying the suggested methods without asking)
- Illness
Could you point us in the right direction to read or even a proper course of action to help him? We live on an island in Canada and unfortunately there is not much of a reef community to draw upon for help. We've been struggling using the Internet and books!
<My vote is for some sort of gut blockage or constipation here. I advise moving this fish (hard to catch!) to a separate quarantine/treatment tank and administering a level teaspoon per gallon of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the water to see if this "moves" the blockage. Additionally, while the animal is there, do feed it Artemia/Brine Shrimp... a laxative type food if ever there was one. Frozen or live. Bob Fenner>
PS: You site is a great help to newbies like us and we frequent yours very often. Thank you for making the information available and for any help you may give to us :)
- Joe and Deanna

Yellow Tang
I have a yellow tang in my 90 gallon tank that appears very healthy (aside
from his tail), eats well and is very active. Other fish in the tank include
some percula clowns, a 6 line wrasse, and a coral beauty.  Its tail is about
a third of its size when I got it about eight months ago.  Although I've
noted the larger of the two clown fish take a run at it every now and then,
I've never actually seen it nip the tang's tail. I have heard of some sort
of tail erosion, but have not been able to find much reading material on it.
Does this sound like erosion, or is it some other malady I should be looking
into?
<Perhaps nutritional in origin rather than the Clown (or perhaps hidden by day hitchhiking crustacean) at play here. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangfeedingfaqs.htm and those on Tang Disease, Yellow Tangs... linked (in blue at top). Bob Fenner>

Re: Koran Angel Problem
Hi! I stumbled upon your website and i hope you can help me. I have a Koran Angelfish, about 4 inches in length. It is in a 60 gallon live rock tank. This fish has always eaten well and been in perfect health but for the last week or so it  stopped eating and I don't know what to do. It seems very interested in all types of food but mouths them without ingesting anything. So far I have tried marine flake food, algae flakes, red algae, frozen angel formula, and brine shrimp. I'm not sure if the angel could actually have a physical problem with swallowing. Everything else looks good although I did notice it has reached the stage where its coloration is beginning to change and his stomach is looking rather thin. Please help, I appreciate any advice you can give....I really don't want to lose this little guy. Thanks!
<Do you have live rock in this system? (I would), a protein skimmer? What sort of readings for water quality are your tests giving you? What sort of filtration do you employ? What other livestock in the same system?
Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/koran.htm
and the Angel Disease, Feeding FAQs (linked, in blue at top).
Bob Fenner>

Re: Koran Angel Problem
Hi,
Thanks for your reply! I checked out that website and it was really interesting. It didn't say much about disease though, do you have any idea to what his problem might be or what I can do to help. The people at the petstore suggested he might have a throat tumor but I can't find anything about fish getting them online so I wanted to see if it was possible that it was anything treatable. Could this behavior be associated with the color changing? To answer your questions: Yes it is a tank full of live rock, I have two millennium 3000 filters one on each side, I have a protein skimmer and a power head. The salinity is at 1.022, temp is at 81F. The tank mates are: a small Chromis, two chalk Basslets, a small target goby, two cleaner shrimp, a green abalone, a pencil urchin. a maroon clown, and a bulb anemone. Thanks! ~Neosha~   
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/MarInd3of6.htm
skip on down to the marine disease area, and read starting from the top articles, FAQs. Bob Fenner>

Re: Koran Angel Problem
Hi Mr. Fenner,
I checked out the FAQ and I did gain a lot of valuable information from it but I did not find anyone with a similar situation to mine. All of the other fish that wouldn't eat had problems but my fish has no white spots, no cloudy eyes, no gill flaring, nothing I saw on the site. So what I really want to know is...have you heard of any problem that might make a fish not be able to physically eat even though the have the appetite for it?
<Yes... there are several cases like this noted on WWM>
Do you recommend a freshwater dip for the fish?
<No, won't help here.>
Many thanks, Neosha
PS I just noticed you are the author of  "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" which I just bought a few weeks ago, well done, great book!
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Re: Koran Angel Problem
<Yes... there are several cases like this noted on WWM>
I did not see any in the FAQ, are there any solutions you can recommend or is this terminal? Thanks
<The most likely benefit will come from adjuncts to nutrition. I would try addition of iodide, vitamin and HUFAs to the animals foods. You can use the search tool on WWM to find out further how this is done. Bob Fenner>

I found out what was wrong with the California ray
Bob,
After seeking your help about what might be wrong with the California ray, I
took your advice and attempted to find someone here who could help identify
the problem. No one could give me a definitive answer, which is probably
due to the fact that I live in Oklahoma, and we just don't have a lot of
marine experts here. So, I looked through books and websites, and finally
came across what her problem is. She has goiter. 
<Ahhh, not atypical...>
Purina, test diet
division, has a multivitamin that I'm going to try to use.
<If it doesn't include iodide, do add this... through the food>
I just wanted to
thank you for trying to help and let you know what I found out in case it
might be of some use to someone else.
Rochelle
<Thank you for the follow-up... Will post your findings, intentions on WetWebMedia.com... Over time, you will have saved many losses, other trouble for folks. Bob Fenner>

Re: Puffer "Lock-Jaw"
Hello again,
Bob you keep referring me to your website and all it says is to use b12
as a stimulant what can I do about the lock jaw? I could see just prying
it open but wouldn't it just break his jaw or would this be possible on
only a 2-3 inch fish? Is there any chance to fix him or what?
<What can you do about "lock-jaw" as in a fish? Depends on the root cause... am sure that in some cases these unfoldings are principally genetically disposed (have seen such deformities in the wild)... others are nutritionally mediated, resultant from traumas... What species, history do you have on this animal? Bob Fenner>

Re: Puffer "Lock-Jaw"
The fish I have is a porcupine puffer I would say it is from nutritional
because when we first got him he would only eat 2or 3 different types of
food but now he just cant open his mouth more than about 2 mm if we
used the fish anesthetic would I be able to pry his mouth open or would
this break his jaw. The reason we couldn't feed him other stuff because he
wouldn't eat anything else.
<Mmm, to its apparent detriment. I would do the extreme here, Dremel tool (tm) the puffers teeth down (not painful to the animal) and force feed it a slurry of animal based material and vitamin mix (perhaps Selcon (tm) as well) via a plastic syringe. This is about the only path I know of to try to restore the health of this fish. Bob Fenner>

Re: Black tang w/ intestinal blockage?
Thank you for the information on using the Epsom Salt,
because it worked very well. The tang passed whatever
it ate and is now eating and back in the reef tank.
<Ah, great news... Epsom/magnesium sulfate can work wonders. Bob Fenner>

Sick Scopas Tang and Clout?
Hello Bob!
I've been reading the information on your website and really appreciate the
detail you provide on the various species. I'm hoping you can advise me on
how to improve the health of my Tang. Her problems are two-fold; She's
become malnourished since I brought home a Striped Sweetlips 2 months ago
that will only eat PE Mysis. The tang loves the mysis so much that she
stopped (from what I can tell) eating the Dried Algae I've been hanging up
for her every day. Well, she had a fin turn red and acquired red blotches
on her sides, and her back end is reddish in color. Thanks to helpful
posters in newsgroups I have been getting her to eat Spirulina flakes for
the past week and the red fin is no longer red, and the blotches are faded
though her back end is still reddish. Hopefully by continually feeding the
Spirulina she will get better?
<Yes... and do add a vitamin preparation (Selcon, Zoecon...) to the food ahead of offering and directly to the water once a week as well...>
The main problem is that for the past 3 weeks or so she has been breathing
rapidly/heavily, darts her gills against the rocks, is reclusive (hiding
between rocks) and today she is skittish. Based on my questions on the news
groups she may have gill disease. 
<Or these may be more manifestations of malnutrition...>
There are no white spots so I know it is
not the ICK, which I've suffered with in the past. My tank parameters are
as follows: 55 G SW FO/LR (only 6 lbs so far), UGfilter, Penguin Biowheel
and Hot Magnum 250 which will replace the undergravel, and a Belkin internal
Protein Skimmer. SPG is 1.020,
<I would raise this (slowly, no more than a thousandth per day) to near seawater, 1.025... this is a contributing mal-influence>
Temp is about 78 F, 0 Nitrites, 8.2 PH, very
minimal Nitrates (can't seem to get rid of them) 0-.25 ammonia (in the safe
zone). 
<S/b and stay at zero...>
Other tank mates are Coral Beauty Angel, 6 line wrasse, 2 percula
clowns (all show no symptoms) and a Sweetlips that keeps scratching himself
against the rocks - seems to breath normally though just has abrasions on
his side - where colors have faded from scratching.
<Very difficult species to keep in the long run...>
Some people on the newsgroups suggested to use "Clout" by Aquarium Products
to kill off the gill disease. This would require moving the live rock into
a bucket during treatment, and I understand it is harmful to host and
parasite, but shouldn't make things worse. I am on a very limited budget
and picked up the Clout for a great price. 
My question after my long-winded
story is; would you suggest treating the tank with "Clout"?
<No... there is small likelihood that this "medication" will help in any way... and doubtful your Tang has "gill flukes" or other such parasitic disease... I would spend the same money on Selcon, maybe some more live rock, raise your spg back to NSW as mentioned... and leave all else as is...>
I am unable to
have a quarantine tank (I know, I know, it is a very good idea - limited
budget here). I've had this tang for over a year now and she was the sole
survivor last summer when a horrible case of ICK destroyed my
then-established tank. I hate to see her suffer. If you think "Clout" is a
very bad idea, what else can I possibly do for her? Thank you for bearing
with my long story here. Thank you in advance for your advice.
regards,
Wendy Preuss
<I assure you, this fish does not have a wild-imported gill parasite... simply on the basis of how long you've had it... It's behavior is likely resultant from avitaminoses and prolonged exposure to low spg...
All of which you can correct... the results will be slow in coming, but will come. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick Scopas Tang and Clout?
Thank you so much Bob for your quick response. :^)
> <Yes... and do add a vitamin preparation (Selcon, Zoecon...) to the food
> ahead of offering and directly to the water once a week as well...>
I have been adding Selcon to the mysis for the past week which everyone
eats. How does one add it to the flake food appropriately?
<A few drops on the flakes for about five minutes ahead of offering>
How much do
you suggest adding directly to the water, and how will adding it directly to
the water help?0
<Both and yes>
> <Or these may be more manifestations of malnutrition...>
It took me too long to realize how malnourished she was. I feel pretty
crappy about it.
<This will not change the future>
> <I would raise this (slowly, no more than a thousandth per day) to near
> seawater, 1.025... this is a contributing mal-influence>
I've had the SPG low because I had been dealing with ICK about a month ago,
and actually ever since the tank was set up since I was informed that 1.021
was the perfect place to be. I've been reading on the web and found out
that contrary to everything the LFS's I've consulted have ever said, the
specific gravity should be 1.024-1.026. I found myself a bit confused. I
will start increasing it as you've suggested.
<Easy to be confused about many aspects of our hobby... much varying information...>
ammonia (in the safe zone).
> <S/b and stay at zero...>
I have a hard time keeping it at zero and I do 20% water changes every week.
Until last week I was not over feeding the fish, but I am now so that I can
be assured that the tang is getting enough of the flake food. I used to feed
twice a day, and now it is four times a day. I even resorted to dosing the
tank with Amquel to kick the ammonia back to zero from the "safe" zone, but
someone told me that was stressing my Tang out.
<I would not use Amquel in this way... pre-make and store your water... use more live rock, more substrate to reduce ammonia...>
Sweetlips
> <Very difficult species to keep in the long run...>
I will have to read up on them to find out why they are difficult. Thanks
for giving the heads up - As usual the LFS doesn't say a word.
<Hmm, take a look on our website... under "Grunts, Haemulidae, subfamily Plectorhinchinae...">
would you suggest treating the tank with "Clout"?
> <No... there is small likelihood that this "medication" will help in any
> way... and doubtful your Tang has "gill flukes" or other such parasitic
> disease... I would spend the same money on Selcon, maybe some more live
> rock, raise your spg back to NSW as mentioned... and leave all else as
> is...>
Thank you, I am not keen on medicating a full tank - been there done that -
sort of thing.
> <I assure you, this fish does not have a wild-imported gill parasite...
> simply on the basis of how long you've had it... It's behavior is likely
> resultant from avitaminoses and prolonged exposure to low spg...
> All of which you can correct... the results will be slow in coming, but
will
> come. Bob Fenner>
Can you approximate how long results may take, a month - two?
<Two or more...>
Anyway I am so glad a fellow newsgroup post-er directed me to your site.
The information you provided has been so helpful already, and I am feeling a
bit hopeful again. Thanks!
regards,
Wendy Preuss
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>

RE: Percula Clowns...and more!
Hi Bob,
A slightly delayed reply...
Snail Story:
Remember I told you a while back I had noticed a proliferation of small
snails? Most were in my overflow in the back corner of the tank. They were
piled up in there, with some on the glass. I wanted to clean them out and
move them to the main part of the tank, but didn't know which were dead and
which were alive. So, I scooped them into a drinking glass and placed the
glass in the tank. It took only a few minutes for them to begin climbing
the glass and back down the other side and into the tank! There is still a
large pile at the bottom, but more are climbing up. It seems to be working.
<Ah, good>
Sick Tang:
Our Yellow Tang has been in the tank for almost 2 years. Over the past
month or so, we have noticed that the top of his spine, when raised, is no
longer smooth. Is this a sign of injury or disease? 
<A disease, yes... in a general sense... likely mostly borne of "old age", less than satisfactory water quality, a lack of some nutritional component or more, or... a combination of these and other influences... many things might help... Selcon to soak its food in... using nori sheet as that food... growing Caulerpa et al macro-algae to feed it and improve water quality (in an algal filter as detailed on the site: www.WetWebMedia.com...>
I see no other signs
of illness and he still behaves normally.
Clowns:
We've decided to get the Clownfishes and place them in the tank without
quarantining them. After a couple of months, we will entertain the idea of
getting a the flame angel and longnose hawkfish.
<Good to go slow. Bob Fenner>

Hi Bob, 
I wrote to you the other day about some hair algae in my main reef tank, which has no fish in it because they are all in a small quarantine tank being treated with copper for ich. You had previously advised me to keep all my fish out of my main tank for 2 months to let the ich die on it’s own. I have my temperature raised and my salinity lowered in my main tank and all of my fish in the quarantine tank look fine now. 
<Sounds good>
Last night I went to my very favorite LFS to get the Mithrax crabs and Caulerpa you recommended for the algae in my main tank. This store is very nice. It is owned by a man and his sons and they have an amazing selection of invertebrates and fish, as well as a 200 gallon reef tank that is absolutely beautiful. It is full of dozens of kinds of stony and soft corals and lots of neat fish. The water is always shimmering and clear and everything in it is so colorful and healthy looking. That tank is the main reason why I got into this hobby. I’m only telling you all of this because I want you to understand why I always want to think that these people should know what they’re talking about, since they can obviously maintain their own tanks so beautifully. 
<No one knows everything... and there are many paths to the same destination>
The problem is, their advice is usually fairly contrary to yours. When I told him how I was approaching the treatment of the ich, he said that leaving the fish out of the main tank for two months won’t help, and that I should put my fish back in right away. 
<Hmm, how would you treat the live rock.... in the main tank... to rid it as a source of recurring ich?>
He said the ich will continue to live in the main tank 
<Possibly... but not probably after lacking hosts for two months... especially with the lowered spg and elevated temperature...>
and that it only attacks fish when they lose their slime coating, that and they only lose their slime coating when they’re stressed.
<No to both... a hyperinfective presence of external parasites does infest fishes that are stressed more than not-so stressed... but will/does attach, feed on all>
Therefore, if I maintain a very stable, healthy system, my fish won’t get ich. 
<Agreed, if you also have excluded the causative mechanism (the presence of disease-causing micro-organisms) in the first place... via dips/baths, quarantine>
Now, I agree that a very stable system is definitely what I should be striving for, and probably will prevent a lot of problems, but is that the one and only way to control ich? What do you think of this guy’s advice?
<Take a look at the disease parts of my site: www.wetwebmedia.com, particularly the piece on "The Three Sets of Factors That Determine Livestock Health"... there is a triad of groups of contributing causes to health/diseased states: initial state (genetic, developmental), suitability of the environment (many, many factors here), and the presence, degree of infectiousness of pathogens... It seems what you have heard is a heavy emphasis put on the first two factors and not much on the last... I have the "advantage" in responding to this point of view at this point... ask this gentleman to take the time to read over the referenced article...>
I usually go with your advice because of your obvious credentials and the fact that your answers always make a lot of sense, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on this one. 
Thanks for your help, and sorry I pester you so much!
>>
<Please don't misunderstand me, but do not rely on my or any one else's advice on such important matters as the husbandry of your livestock... listen to input, and take on the final synthesis yourself.
Bob Fenner>

Re: brown splotches on yellow tang
ammonia is down to zero this morning; nitrites are still .25. not feeding is not a problem with our grazers, they are not eating much. We have a fairly mixed tank, along with the tangs we have 2 small damsels, a Jawfish, a Cuban hog (who is also moping) and a mandarin (who seems to be doing just fine). how long can they go without feeding? 
<Days to weeks>
The anenome and corals are ok. We only have about 40-45 lbs live rock, which was what our local store suggested for the tank when we originally set up. Is this too little? 
<For how big a system? More is better in most settings... a pound to 1 1/2 per gallon...>
We also have a real bloom of brown diatoms on the glass (snails are still trying to help). I know we have a problem, I just don't know how to solve it. >>
<And I can't tell much more from the above... keep alert, studying, talking about your apparent situation... many ways to bring it (back) into balance... including the ever-necessary ingredient "time".
Bob Fenner>

I hope you can help . . .
Hi Bob,
I have a have a 29 gallon "fish-only" tank running for about 6 months now so I'm pretty new to the hobby. I have a Coral Beauty in the tank that has been doing great up until about 2 days ago. Right above it's eye (on both sides) something is eating away at it's skin. It looked like little tiny white spots at first then a few days later it was a lot worse. There is also a line of this "stuff" forming from it's head all the way to it's tail fin. The fish is be eating and behaving normally. Do you have any idea what this is? or if it can be treated? I definitely don't want his spreading to the other fish, but I don't have a hospital tank. I can try to get a pict with the digital camera if that would help.
Thanks,
Brandon
>>
I do indeed have a very good idea of what you're (keenly) observing. Your Dwarf Angel is beginning to show the signs of a disease (any deviation from a normal or healthy state) called HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Erosion)... that various folks consider a nutritional (lack of vitamins, iodine), environmental (stray electrical potential, poor water quality), and/or parasitic (a protozoan, Octomita necatrix) problem in etiology (causative mechanism)... Some of this discussion may well be a matter of a "chicken and the egg, which came first" question... but there are definite incidences of "cure" by improving water quality and nutrition...
So, I would seek to improve both the food quality through diversifying foodstuffs, soaking them in a vitamin, iodine prep. (these are made for pet fish, or you can mix them up with materials made for human consumption)... And do what you can to make your water quality high and stable... This is a BIG topic... but basically, you want to achieve low phosphate (less than 0.1 ppm) and nitrate (less than 10 ppm) readings (two "windows" that are easy to measure)... This "high and steady water quality" state can be achieved in a few ways... the best are biological... like algae/mud filters... through the use of live rock... refugiums to house, culture these...
Doing nothing... your fish(es) will continue to worsen in their pitting, loss of color... and perhaps perish.
Bob Fenner

I hope you can help . . .
Hi Bob. After reading your reply, I am thinking that is the nutritional problem that you mentioned. The guy at the pet store said that the OSI Spirulina Flake is all I need to feed it. (before they closed down) What would you recommend? I really want to save this fish if possible. As for water quality - I do a 20% water change every month and for filtration, I use a Magnum 220 canister filter with charcoal as the filter medium. I will start the vitamin treatment that you suggested. I've also noticed that the Coral Beauty like to be cleaned a lot by my pacific cleaner shrimp, I'm hoping that it just likes it and that it's not something parasitic. Anyhow thanks for you help and advise on this matter. 
It's sad really, there is NO support for marine aquariums around here. 
-Brandon
>>
I wish that "guy at the fish store" could be locked in a box and fed nothing but "nutritious" cereal (Hey, I'll even let him name the brand!) exclusively for weeks to months... Try a mix of frozen (defrosted) foods and some fresh greens, even live rock... And the vitamin/iodine mix on them.\
And you do have a protein skimmer? Don't see it listed.
And good news re that shrimp's attentions... obviously they (the shrimp, angel) realize something is wrong...
At least you can count on total support for marine aquariums from here!
Bob Fenner

Koran angelfish
Oops, forgot the question.
I've noticed a great fish that is really cheap that the LFS. It's 3.5 inches
long and will cost me $15. It's net caught and is eating really well. The
problem with the fish is that it has spots on it's skin that aren't perfect
and has a few pits. (possibly the onset of HITH or LYLE?) Anyway it has no
ick, but seems to swim fairly well. Should I buy this? If I do how should I
deal with it?
Thanks . David,
>>
Ah, a moral/ethical dilemma (rather than a cerebral/economic one?)... Yes, I've bought/had outright "ugly fish"... that had "personality", other traits going for them. I would "deal with it" the same as other fish purchases... quarantine, at least a dip/bath before placing it. If you suspect it is developing, further developing a case of HLLE, I'd seek to reverse the trend by supplementing (vitamins, iodine) its foods, and providing excellent water quality.
Bob "not so symmetrical himself" Fenner

 Lateral Line Disease
Bob, why is it Purple Tangs are so susceptible to lateral line disease? I 
had one die about six months ago after getting to look pretty bad. I now 
have two with the same condition, one much worse than the other. All the 
other fish are fine. They are all well fed with plenty of vitamins and 
variety of food, including greens and dried algae. I have a grounding probe 
which I have been told is essential to prevent this from affecting all my 
fish. Do you have advice that can help me clear it up and prevent future 
outbreaks. By the way, I have removed them from my display tank and have 
them in a hospital tank for better control. 
Thanks, Sincerely, Carlos Machin 
>>
Some folks think that Purple Tangs are just genetically/developmentally more pre-disposed to this disease-condition (head and lateral line erosion)... I have a firm co-belief that it is much to do with nutritional deficiencies (usually some of the vitamins, A, D, E or B's are cited, as well as iodine), rather than the usual "other suspects" of HLLE (stray voltage, "poor" water quality...). Here's my take: most all Purple Tangs are collected out of Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) in the Red Sea. Most all of them are treated the same, with low spg and copper... and the treatments result in killing off a bunch of the beneficial microbes that live in the Tang's alimentary canals that aid them in processing their food (much like E. coli and humans)... this disruption ultimately leads to the disfiguring HLLE. The larger Purples are less likely to develop this complaint, as they are less affected by the collecting stations treatments.
Bob Fenner, who says there is evidence (from other Zebrasoma kept in captivity and "treated" the same, that the beneficial micro-fauna can be "picked up" by tangs that have been "wiped clean" via their ingestion of fecal material from "healthy" (inoculated) tangs (sort of like the argument for breast vs. bottle feeding in humans).

Question: I am having a problem with keeping my algae eating fish alive (gobies, one tang, scooters, [also snails], etc.) They will typically flourish for about six to eight months and then die, with no outward sign of problems, with the possible exception of becoming lethargic near the end. I have had no problems with the other fish such as damsels, tomato clowns, and Dottybacks. Water quality parameters remain in the normal range, with zero nitrates and nitrites and only a trace of ammonia. I have had red algae in the tank that I vacuum out. Is there something that I am missing that might be affecting these particular fish?

Bob's Answer: David, your fish are most likely perishing from one of two problems or a combo. of the two: Slow starvation and/or some type of chronic toxicity. Both problems are common and both easy to solve. The best, most easy route to suggest is the addition of as much good live rock as you can afford. The really low density, high-branching stuff from places like Fiji and Tonga is what I'm getting at. Discounting any deficiency in your set-up or maintenance, the LR will ameliorate all sorts of chemical and physical inputs into your system that might be slowly poisoning your bottom dwellers... and at the same time, offer them some ready food organisms that will to a degree be self- replenishing... No room in your tank for (more) live rock? Build or buy a refugium sump and link it to your main/display tank. Maybe check out the archives of Aquarium Frontiers on Line for some ideas on how to arrange the latter. Don't give up my friend.

Question: I sure hope you can give me some advice on this one. I have a (nearly) adult Pomacanthus Imperator, approximately 12-14 cm long. I acquired it from FFExpress last fall. Within a month or so of introduction to my tank, it began to develop a few small, 'pimple' like pumps, slightly discolored. They have continued to appear and spread in patches on the fish, and are getting worse. Most of the earliest patches have now gone away, and left only faint scars. What's more, they don't seem to bother the fish, with the exception of one time when a particularly bad patch developed a secondary infection. I treated that with SW Maracyn, and it quickly recovered. It seems to be a strong fish, and is an outstanding eater, although I have a tough time adequately varying its diet, as it will not take angel formula or any other gel-cube food. It does eat brine, bloodworms, lettuce, kelp, and hair or macro algae greedily. My attempts to treat (and prevent the spread of) this malady have consisted of lowering the salinity in my 150 gallon tank, where this fish is kept, to 1.011 SG (this is a fish only tank), and then treating with CopperSafe. Neither seems to have made any difference, and it has not apparently spread to any other fish. The fish is now in isolation, following the bacterial infection noted above. Is this, as I fear, some sort of parasitic worm? If so, why have lowered salinity and copper not killed it off? Is there some way to eliminate this? Some of the patches are getting pretty bad. One is so inflamed that my wife suggest I remove the 'bumps' with tweezers! I'm really at a loss, and I have never seen anything like this in 10 years of marine fishkeeping.

Bob's Answer: Hey Jim, thanks for writing so clearly and completely of this malady and your involvement. I too have witnessed similar happenings with large pomacanthids... and am more or less convinced that the "root" of the occurrence is mainly a-nutritional. There is anecdotal evidence of various vitamins and Iodine lack being a/the causative factor and I encourage you to take a multi-prong attack at making sure these essential inputs are not limiting: I'd utilize a supplement mix (vitamins C, E and A at least) applied to your foods ahead of their being offered and administer Iodine in a useable format as well... And do look into putting in some live rock (cures many ills along with full-time supplementation of diet) after raising your spg back to something reasonable (1.018-1.021 plus). BTW the Emperor/Imperator gets much larger, to about sixteen inches overall length in the wild, and at least a foot or so in captivity.