Rhinecanthus (diet, environment)  – 10/13/08
Good evening guys!
<Hello,>
My name is Richard and I was browsing around here and checked out your trigger's FAQ page (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/faqs.htm)
but didn't find out what i was looking for so here it goes.
<Oh?>
I have a Picasso trigger that's about 4" big inside 72 gal bow front tank. He eats like a pig (just ate about 10 fish) and is the alpha alpha male or female of the tank.
<When you say "10 fish" please promise me you don't mean live feeder fish. Nothing could be worse for a captive triggerfish. Putting aside the fact Triggers don't really eat fish in the wild -- they feed almost entirely on shelled invertebrates and algae -- feeder fish are nutritionally imbalanced (too much fat and thiaminase) and "parasite time bombs". As Bob Fenner has reported, THE most common cause of death for Pterois lionfish in captivity is feeding them the wrong thing, i.e., Goldfish and other freshwater fish. There's really no excuse for feeding a trigger live or even dead fish: instead given them unshelled prawns, crab legs, small clams, krill, algae wafers and so on.>
It was doing some weird things today and was wondering if it was normal behavior in this fish type. (I had this fish for 3 weeks now btw)
<Define "weird". These are characterful fish to say the least, but in part they're amazingly aggressive, and a lot of odd behaviours are simply threat or territorial behaviours of various types.>
Picasso swims up and down the tank furiously and rub his face on the glass. I have checked for spots to see if it's an ich problem and no spots.
Nitrite level is very, ammonia is very low, zero nitrate, ph is balanced and salinity is well balanced.
<None of this means much, suggesting that you haven't quite grasped the basics of marine fishkeeping. Nitrite and ammonia levels in marine tanks are comparable to pregnancy: in the same way a person is either pregnant or not pregnant, and never almost pregnant or nearly pregnant, so nitrite and ammonia are either zero (Safe) or not zero (Dangerous). Simple as that. Nothing much to learn. So "very low" levels of nitrite and ammonia may sound fine to the less experienced fishkeeper, but to anyone who has kept marines for a while, all kinds of alarm bells are jangling! Review filtration and how much you are feeding your Trigger. Next up, the pH isn't "balanced" -- it is some specific value and very, very stable. The precise value is up for debate, with values of 8.2 or 8.5 often being quoted as optimal. But what matters is that the pH NEVER changes. The sea is vast, and has enormous buffering capacity, so unlike freshwater conditions there's no need for marine fish to evolve ways to handle pH changes. Moreover, if the pH steadily drops between water changes, this reveals deeper problems with water chemistry management, such as lack of carbonate hardness or overstocking.>
I have 8 fish in that tank and so far this is only fish that's acting up like this.
<Hmm... Triggers are not noted for their good behaviour with tankmates! I would certainly not recommend keeping Rhinecanthus is a standard community setting. As has been reported, breeding Triggers have been known to attack divers, let alone small fish!>
My other trigger (clown trigger) seems to be doing fine with no erratic behavior.
<Presumably not in the same tank -- mixing these two triggers in one tank would be crazy. Do understand Balistoides conspicillum is one of the most aggressive marine fish in the trade.>
Any input would be appreciated.
Stressed out fish owner
Richard
<Read, my friend. Much written about these fish here and elsewhere. They are remarkably hardy, so will put up with your "learning curve" up to a point, but imposing on that hardiness isn't a sensible idea. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Rhinecanthus (diet, environment) (RMF, comments?)  10/13/08
Hello Neale and WWM crew,
<Hello,>
Thanks for getting back to me so quick and let me rephrase few things so that you can understand the situation more and perhaps assist me better.
<OK, fire away!>
Ok, ph is at 8.3 (I try to keep it from 8.1 - 8.5, I read that's the place I want to be and that's why I called it stable), salinity is at .023, ammonia is .1, nitrite and nitrate is almost at zero (.1 ish), .now after a 10 gal. water change.
<Now, don't get me wrong: triggers can, will tolerate less than ideal conditions for longer periods than most any other non-estuarine marine fish. Bob will correct me on this
<<I would... if perceived as necessary, beneficial. RMF>>
I'm sure, but they were certainly among the very first fish to rack up double-digit life spans in marine aquaria way back in the day. So they're tough. But they're not indestructible, and even small variations for "perfect" water quality can give disease-causing organisms the break they need to cause problems. A stable pH 8.3 is good. Careful use of buffers and regular water changes should tighten the variation down to a bare minimum. Do remember the pH scale is logarithmic, i.e., between 7 and 8 there's a ten-fold difference in basic (as in not acidic) ion concentration. So seemingly small variation is actually quite substantial. Salinity isn't too much of an issue in a fish-only system, though cured live rock with algae and invertebrates may experience die-offs if the salinity varies or goes below whatever the live rock was cured at. That will cause ammonia and nitrite to go upwards for some weeks. I do think you need to review water quality: ammonia and nitrite should be zero, and there's no real debate here. If the tank is new, that's one thing. But if the tank has been up a while, or you're using live rock for filtration, review stocking, how often you feed the fish, capacity of the filter, how much live rock you've used, and so on.>
I will do another one at end of this week to try to eliminate this problem. PH is rarely changed because I try to keep at it certain level at all times. I buff them every time I do a water change and check the parameters short afterwards.
<Not sure what "buff them" means here. Do you mean you add buffering salts to the water?>
I have a predator tank which consists on black Volitans lion, clown trigger, Huma Huma, porcupine puffer with little school of chromis.
<Well, the Chromis shouldn't be there for obvious reasons. Diodon spp. porcupine fish have the capacity to get enormous, so do be careful there. 40-50 cm is the maximum size for even the smaller species.>
I feed them various things, such as gut packed ghost shrimps (formula 1,2) , formula 1, flake food (triggers eat it to my surprise), guppies, dried anchovies. Would this diet be still be bad for the fish?
<You absolutely shouldn't be feeding any of these fish any freshwater fish, live or, in the case of Cyprinidae especially, dead. Simple as that. Dried anchovies would surely be a treat, given how fatty they are. Do read Bob's articles on feeding marine fish: really, this is the single biggest way to mess up keeping large, fish-only systems. Standard seafood mixes from the grocery store (squid, prawn, mussels) are economical, healthy foods for all predatory fish. Weaning some onto dead foods may be more difficult than others, but it's do-able for all your species.>
I am just doing what I was told at LFS.
<That's the problem, and we've all been there, even me, back I when I started. The reality is that while many retailers provide excellent information, not all of them do. If you went into a clothes store you wouldn't blindly accept the word of a sales clerk who said a certain jacket or pair of trousers looked good. You'd be aware all the time he's making a sale, and it's all too easy to walk out the store with clothes that don't suit you at all. Just the same as in a pet store: listen to their advice, but balance against your own research. There's no lack of information. Bob's "Conscientious Aquarist" book on marine fishkeeping is just one of the excellent and inexpensive books out there. Given the huge cost of running and stocking a marine tank, dropping 20-30 bucks on a well respected text book is surely an investment?>
They say that they just feed them frozen dead fish, guppies, goldfish and ghost shrimps.
<Do read Bob's piece here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/goldfshfd.htm
There's also a broad consensus that using live foods *increases* the aggression among predatory fish, the last thing you want in a busy community of fish with deadly venom and massive firepower!>
Algae wafers that you mentioned, you mean the circle shaped ones that you feed to fresh water fish? They will eat those? or do you mean some other kind?
<Those ones precisely. Get a small package first, to see if your Triggers like them. Algae is a minor part of their diet, but a consistent one. They bite at rocks and corals, scraping away algae.>
Krills are the dried ones right?
<Frozen are usually better value and more readily taken. Do understand with dried foods you pay a hefty premium for convenience.>
Besides putting feeding matters aside.
My main question on Picasso how it swims top to bottom rapidly rubbing it's face on the glass wasn't really addressed. I know that this type of trigger have awesome personalities and are more like a dog then a fish but this behavior scares me because I'm thinking that it may be an ich or something. I haven't noticed any spots on the fish (both body and the fins) this morning.. Should I be concerned?
<It may simply be trying to get out. Many fish will "pace" the tank, swimming against the glass if they feel confined. There's not much you can do beyond increasing water circulation (so they have to swim harder, and therefore feel less confined) and ensuring the rockwork provides each fish with sufficient hidey holes.>
Also I try my best on reading up on anything possible, like the link I provided earlier.
I read that same type (Picasso) should not be kept together and those of similar size of different kind should fare ok.
<Hmm... wouldn't put too much store by this with Triggers; many is the aquarist who's bought one, popped it into a big tank, and then watched it mature and then decide to beat seven bells out of its tankmates. These fish claim big territories in the wild, and pound for pound have to be some of the "hardest hitting" fish in the ocean.>
They are doing fine as we speak.
<So far. Remember, aggression is primarily a problem with sexually mature fish. Reef-dwelling triggers breed in a cichlid-like manner, with males (I believe) guarding the eggs.>
(thank goodness because those are my 2 favorite fishes!)
<Among my favourites, too.>
I know I'm not professional/expert level and I know I'm learning new things everyday but I try to do my best by reading and researching, doing maintenance diligently and keep my fish's health and best interest at heart so please don't say that I'm imposing on my fish's hardiness.
<It's not a comment on your good intentions or lack of kindness towards animals. Merely a statement that if conditions deviate from 100%, you open the door to problems. That's the "imposition". I fully understand you like these fish and want to do well by them, and applaud you for it. All I'm trying to do is lay the facts out in the open fair and square, so that you can see the particular mines in this minefield, so to speak.>
As you can see, I'm very concerned or wouldn't be writing to you guys.
<Quite so.>
Just thought I would throw that in there because your last sentence made me sound like a noob who really don't care about his fishes.
<No offence meant.>
Richard the stressed out fish owner.
<Cheers, Neale.>

Picasso Trigger in a 60-Gallon Tank?...And With Who? - 05/27/07
Hey guys, thanks for all the help and information you have provided me in the past.
<<We're all (guys and gals) happy to help>>
I have been thinking about purchasing an Assasi or "Picasso" Trigger fish.
<<Ah, a very good "choice" as far as Triggers go...and my wife's favorite>>
Will a 60-gallon aquarium be large enough to house him in?
<<Mmm...Rhinecanthus "is" one of the smaller genera of Trigger Fishes, but 60 gallons is still a might small.  As they are slow growers, a small specimen (3"-4") would likely do fine for a few years but would still be better off/need larger quarters as it grows>>
Also, what other types of fish may I keep in the tank with him?
<<Small "agile" fishes are fine, providing there are adequate escape routes/hiding places among the rockwork to escape the trigger...otherwise, pugnacious though not overly aggressive fishes of similar size will work (angels, basses, etc.), although you will have a problem housing the latter due to the restrictions of tank size.  For this size tank I feel you are better off having the Trigger as the "show" specimen, and adding a few small fishes (Yellow-Tailed Blue Damsels, perhaps) for added motion/interest)...unless/until you can get a bigger tank>>
Thanks,
Chris
<<Is a pleasure to share.  EricR>>

Picasso Trigger
OK here is my dilemma. I have a 55 gallon fish only. Right now I have only crushed shells as my substrate. I want to avoid live rock at all costs. What 
all can I put in the tank as far as decoration. Are any plastic decorations safe for saltwater? 
<All sorts of polyethylene and ceramic ornaments are made for aquarium use that are safe... some even attractive!>
Also the lighting on the tank is moderate. I have about a 6 inch Picasso triggerfish that I purchased from ffexpress by the way. He is 
doing very well. I am curious as to if any corals, anenomes, inverts would be safe in the tank with him. Thanks for your help
>>
Not really in a tank of this size... I would either set-up another tank, give this Trigger away and switch the tank over to something more mixed in livestock, or reconcile to have big, bad biting fishes in your 55.
Bob Fenner

Another question for the pros (re a fast Picasso Triggerfish)
Good day gentlemen. I trust you all are well.
<<I am well, thanks for asking.>>
I have a quick Picasso Trigger question. I have read articles on your site but cannot seem to find the answer. <<I can try.>>
I have a 37G FOWLR. Crushed shell substrate. Marineland 330 Biowheel. Lots of BioMax media. No Skimmer. I have about 12 Lbs of LR. The sole occupant is a 1 and a half inch Picasso Trigger.
Is it necessary for him to have a tankmate? <<I don't think it is 'necessary' but it wouldn't hurt.>> Does he need company which would add to his well-being? <<I think these fish are capable of being self-entertained. I would make sure there are some small rocks and shells that it can move about and I'm sure it will keep busy.>> I am perfectly happy keeping him alone in my small tank but that's me!! I would like to know how he feels. <<No so easy to do.>> This sounds crazy but do fish get "lonely" I was thinking of a cleaner shrimp of some kind but I read that it could easily become lunch for the trigger. <<Yeah, that won't work... consider perhaps a slightly larger tank before you consider some other tank mates. That trigger will be growing.>>
Thanks, as always, David.
<<Cheers, J -- >>

2 Picasso trigger questions
Good day gentlemen!!!
<What about scholars?>
I just bought a 1 and a half inch Picasso Trigger for my 37G. I have 2 small pieces of LR (suggested by you) to cycle the tank quicker than using no LR. It apparently did it's job as my Nitrite just hit zero. I have no other livestock in the tank (other than a small hermit crab that hitched a ride on the LR). I also have some pieces of porous rock on the bottom.
My 2 questions are as follows. Is crushed shells of various sizes ok to use as substrate? 
<Will do... there are a few considerations (of course)... e.g. not ideal for maximizing biological filtration (likely no biggee). Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsubstr.htm >
I read somewhere that Triggers prefer sand but it is too late since the shells are in the tank and I would prefer not to make radical changes unless you highly suggest I do.
<Should be fine as is>
Question number 2 is... Do Picasso Triggers prefer calmer or more turbulent water?
<Mmm in this small a system, more than less...>
I bought a 174G/H power head to move water around but I might not use it if I do not need to. I have a Marineland 330 Biowheel filter and lots of extra BioMax. No airstone, No skimmer.
<I'd look into a skimmer... please read over re on WetWebMedia.com... and also a larger system... your trigger is going to need same>
Thanks as always for your invaluable service.
David.
<You're welcome as usual. Bob Fenner>

Re: Picasso Trigger
Just a quick question......we're setting up a 29 gal marine tank......I'd REALLY like to get just one Picasso trigger (they're SOOOOO  cool)....will this tank be big enough for him?
<No my friend. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm
and the links to the genus Rhinecanthus triggers beyond. Bob Fenner>

Picasso Aficionado (5/24/04)
Hi! <Steve Allen here> I plan to start a FOWLR system soon in my new home that will be ready next year. In the meantime, I'm doing a little research about Picasso triggers so that I can provide them with the best care that I can give. <Smart>
I have loved Picassos ever since I saw a pic of one many years ago, even before I ventured into marines, and I plan to keep one in the new aquarium. <They're even cooler in the wild. You should try snorkeling in Hawaii.> Could you please tell me what the ideal size aquarium would be for just 1 Picasso - the only inhabitant. I have read about 75 gallons being the minimum, but some say that it's still too small. Would 100 gallons be big enough? <I disagree with 75, having observed this fish in the wild, and owning one myself. A six foot long tank would be the best. (I use a 180) This fish is very active and constantly swimming.>
For filtration, I plan to use a wet/dry filter coupled with a protein skimmer and a refugium. I might also use some kind of mechanical filtration too. Is my choice of filters fine? <Get a top-quality skimmer. Money well-spent.>
Which substrate is more natural to the trigger's home environment? Sand or crushed coral? <Either will do. A thin (1" or so) layer of crushed coral is easy to maintain by vacuuming. A deep sand bed may also work, but could be more difficult to maintain. I use the crushed coral and a remote DSB in a refugium.> Do triggers stir up sand beds? <They have been known to redecorate, including moving impressively large pieces of rock. BTW, there are suitable tankmates for a Picasso. Look into the Snowflake Eel.> Andrew Lee <Hope this helps. Keep up the research.> 

Picasso Trigger
HELLO!
As I know Picasso Trigger needs plenty of room to swim, but would it be ok if I put it in a cube tank as an only inhabitant? Is length of the tank major factor of swimming space or capacity?
Best regards    
Darek
>>>Hey Darek,
  Among the triggers, the genus Rhinecanthus represents some of the slowest growers. If you put a 3" individual in a tank that size, you'll be set. He will not outgrow that tank in your lifetime. :)For one thing they only get to 10" or so in the wild, and in captivity 8 or 9" is more realistic, and it takes years for them to get there.
  When you need figure how appropriate a given tank is, you need to be concerned with real estate more than gallonage. A 12"x12" tank that is 20 feet tall will have quite a bit of volume, but no swimming space for the fish. That's a bit of a silly example, but you get the idea.  
Jim<<<

A Very Small Aquarium, 1.14.05
First of all, a very cool website!  I have a Huma trigger fish and a clownfish (both about 3 inches long) in a 10 gallon salt water tank.  
<Oh my.  You'll need hundreds of gallons to support a trigger, and soon.>
The clown fish is fine, but the Huma trigger has been uncharacteristically hiding and lying down (as they do when they are resting) for most of the day and night.  He gets up to swim every once in awhile, but has reduced his food intake.  Recently, 2 sea urchins in my tank died.  I have done 2 partial water changes since then (but not too close together) and the specific gravity is fine, yet the Huma trigger has not recovered fully.  What else can I do to help him out?
<He needs fresh foods, lots of water movement, and great water quality.  I'd need results from a water test to explain exactly what's causing his stress...But I can tell you that the likelihood of keeping him alive in such a small space is low.>   
The clownfish is fine and it seems strange that the Huma trigger is acting so sick.  His colors are still good, and he has no signs of infection such as white patches, etc.
<Likely water quality.>
Also - a question out of curiosity - I noticed that you often recommend very large aquariums for salt water tanks.  Could this be part of my problem?  I have had this aquarium set up since last March, with no real problems up until now.
<Yes, larger tanks have more water, which help to dissolve pollutants before they can kill your livestock.  I highly recommend a larger tank for both of the fish under your care.  Good luck, Ryan>

Picasso Trigger 7/24/05
Hello Bob.
<M. Maddox tonight - long hair too, but a couple of years younger>
I would like to thank you all for the helpful information that you share.
<You're welcome>
I have a Picasso Trigger in a 38g tank with over 50 lbs. of live rock. This is just a temporary thing until I have the space to accommodate something larger. It was a risky purchase because it's only about an inch long, but I figured it suited the small tank and the price was right. It eats well and often.
<Good, good> How long do you think It can stay in this tank?
<Until it reaches 3" or a little less>
Should I move some of the rock to another tank?
<I would to give it a bit more room>
How long do you think it will take it to reach about 5 or 6 inches?
<1-2 years, depending on how much it's fed>
I don't doubt that the space may affect its temperament, but will it affect overall size or growth?
<Will not affect speed, if it's kept in a tank too small for too long it will artificially stunt the growth that will result in severely reduced lifespan or death>
I plan to eventually put it in a 75g with a lot of live rock. Potential tankmates that I am considering are a Moon Wrasse (Thalassoma lunare) and a Harlequin Tuskfish. Do you have any other suggestions? Thanks in advance for all of your time.
<You're going to need something larger than a 75.  Consider a 150, as an adult Picasso attains 10", much less the wrasse and the Tuskfish, which will be fine tankmates provided they're housed in a large enough aquarium>
Jeff Crowder
<M. Maddox>