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Greetings Dispensers of Knowledge - need
advice Marine Crypt on Purple Tang. 11/20/2010
HLLE in Zebrasoma xanthurum 4/26/07 Dear Crew,
<Greetings, Jim. GrahamT with you tonight.> I have a pressing
problem here, and I could really use your help. I've got a sick
purple tang, and I'm not sure what it is, so I don't know how
to treat it. First a little background. <Excellent.> I have two
main tanks, a 150 long fish-only, and a 150 show reef. The occupants of
the fish-only are large animals, many of which I have been keeping for
years. Some I've raised from babies to what I must assume is full
grown. <Perhaps, but maybe not...> Here's what is in there:
Volitans Lion, Foxface, mated pair of Blue Jaw Triggers, Narrow Lined
Dog Face Puffer, Raccoon Butterfly, a Green Bird Wrasse, and now a
Purple Tang. <Wow, that is a lot of fishes for a small enclosure
like that!> Water parameters are: Ammonia and Nitrite undetectable,
Nitrates run as high as 70-80 before a water change, but since it's
fish-only, that has never been a problem. <That is one opinion. Mine
would go like this: since your fish have been in this environment for a
long time, they have adapted to the less-than ideal water condition.
New additions; i.e.., purple tang, would be stressed and mal-affected
by this. Don't be fooled by their apparent "wellness."
These fish would be better off thinned-out and with less nitrates.>
Temp is around 78, ph 8.2. After reading several articles about the
benefits of hyposalinity and its safety for most fish, I keep the
salinity a little low, around 1.015-1.016, to reduce the threat of
parasites, especially crypts, which wiped out the entire tank eight
years ago. <Bummer.> It's been that way for about six years
and doesn't seem to have had any negative effect. I've also
only had one case of ich, and it went away on it's own. Because the
fish are large and somewhat aggressive, I can almost never find a fish
to purchase which is large enough to add directly (which is generally
okay because the tank is pretty full and I rarely add fish).
<"Pretty full" is a mild understatement of fact IMO.>
Most of the time I end up buying smaller fish and raising them in
another tank, either the reef or one of my smaller tanks (55 or 42). In
fact, that is part of my plan: before I buy a fish, I find out how big
it will grow, and then try figure out where I will put it now, and
where it will live when full grown. I hate it when people buy fish that
will get too large for any tank they have (i.e. Nasos in a 55--I
wouldn't even keep one in my 150). <Hmm, I might make a similar
case about the puffer that reaches around 12"...> Such was the
case with the purple tang. I purchased him small about 1 1/2 years ago
from a LFS, and added him to the reef tank--he did great. Last year, I
also added a chevron tang--only about 1" long! I had ordered him
direct from Hawaii, and was scared when I saw how small he was when he
arrived, but he did great. I knew that if they both lived and grew, one
would eventually need to move somewhere else, and I had it in mind to
move the purple to the fish-only all along. About a month ago, that day
came. I moved the purple to the fish-only, and after a few initial
skirmishes with the large Foxface, everything was fine. For about a
week. Then I noticed a few white spots on the tang. Thought it was ich,
and decided to leave it alone and observe carefully--I find that my
efforts to "treat" fish are almost never successful, so
it's better just to keep water quality good and wait and see. There
hasn't been an ich outbreak in that tank for years. Well, the spots
didn't get rapidly worse, nor did they spread to other fish.
There's no rapid breathing, no scratching, no loss of color,
he's eating heartily and acting normally. Only behavioral change is
that he's constantly begging the other fish to clean him. Rather
than spreading rapidly across his body, the spots have gotten larger,
too large to be ich. Occasionally I swear I can see a wormlike shape to
some of them. And now he's developing open lesions wherever the
spots have been present the longest. This is mostly along the lateral
line, around the head, especially the creases in the gill flaps, and
the caudal peduncle, near the scalpels. <Huge hints here:
"...mostly along the lateral line , around the head..."> I
really don't think it is HLLE, though, because of the spots, and
because it isn't limited to the head and lateral line. <Think
again.> I've read all the pages concerning diseases. I don't
think it is crypts, or velvet, Brooklynellosis, or black-spot.
Doesn't look like any isopods or macro-parasites to me. Maybe
flukes or some other parasitic worm? He never showed any sign of it in
the reef, only on moving to the fish-only. I don't like trying to
maintain a therapeutic level of copper, but I did dose the tank last
week with Organicure (150 drops, twice, two days apart). No difference.
<Wouldn't expect a difference in one week, let alone used in the
main tank. As FAQs state, copper is readily absorbed into calcareous
substrates, so bare-bottomed QT is the best way to compliment use of
copper-based treatment. Furthermore, the best advice I can give on HLLE
is nutrition and low stress levels.> I could really use some advice.
Do I leave him there and wait it out, even though it seems to be
getting worse? Do I try to remove him to a hospital tank (20G) and
treat him there? <I would look into proper diet and nutrition. The
stress of the move killed his depressed immune system.> I AM worried
about secondary infection, but getting him out of a 150 with 200 lbs of
rock won't be fun. <No doubt. I wouldn't bother at this
point. Stress is the enemy in a sick fish.> If I do, what is the
correct treatment? Copper? Hyposalinity? Antibiotics? Malachite green
bath? <Treat for HLLE. Read all the info we have about it; i.e..,
nutrition, diet, water quality, etc.> Do I put him back in the reef,
where I have a cleaner goby, fire shrimp and a skunk cleaner shrimp who
might get rid of whatever it is? That seems like it might be the safest
bet, though I'm not sure how well the chevron would take to his
re-introduction. <Again, don't bother stressing him more, unless
the water quality is much better in the reef. I will add that your
FOWLR is still in a dangerous position bio-load-wise.> I am sorry
this is so very long, but I wanted you to have all the pertinent
background and information. I am also attaching a picture, since I know
that a picture is worth a thousand words. Please advise. And thanks
AGAIN for all you guys do. <Got the pic and I see HLLE right in
front of me.> Jim Jensen P.S. a few more pictures of the various
diseases would be really helpful on the disease pages. <This will be
there, at least!> P.P.S. How long do Foxface live and how big do
they get in captivity? I've had mine for about seven years, and
it's approaching eight inches long and over an inch thick!
<Subjective, but I would say 5-10 years and not much bigger than
that in the best of captive conditions.> His black spot has also
become a sort of stripe along the top of his body. <-GrahamT>
Ich Question 3/15/07 Good evening, WetWeb Crew! <Hello> I have what is probably considered the most common of problems in marine aquaria, and what I hope will be a solution that you guys feel is appropriate. Here is some background: I purchased a 2" purple tang from a reputable local fish store recently. Trying for due diligence, I followed the recommended acclimation, fresh water dip, etc, before sending my new friend to a 29 gal. quarantine. <Good routine.> After the first day, he was eating well on the LFS recommended Oraglo food and a small piece of Nori. <Good> The following day, he ate well, but I noticed a small white monster on his left fin. After work, there were a few more on the other. I checked the parameters of the tank and they were as follows: SPG: 1.025, Amm: 0 Nitrites:0 Nitrates:~5ppm PH:8.3 Temp is steady at ~80 degrees <Good> The problem I face as of tonight is that I was just informed that I'm going to be ordered out of town on assignment as of Saturday. <Always at the wrong time.> I'm leaving my tanks in the care of a local aquarist, but I'm not so sure about trying to have him keep a copper regimen in place. <Tough to ask someone to do, also with tangs copper is not really the best choice.> My options, as I see them, are: 1. Taking the fish to a LFS and paying for the fish to be hospitalized by them. <Probably best if you trust them and they have the facilities to do it.> 2. Bringing up a smaller tank (probably a 10 gallon), doing a good freshwater dip, and housing the fish in the smaller tank while I disinfect the 29 and refill it, and then adding a cleaner shrimp and/or neon goby to the 29 with the tang. <These won't really help much with ich, neither feed on it naturally, and the goby is likely to become a victim.> My main question is, do you have any other suggestions given my dilemma? Or do you have anything you would add to the above suggestions? <If your LFS is able to care of it that would be my first choice, otherwise hyposalinity would be the way I would go, assuming you are not going to be out of town too long. Premix the water and see if your fish sitter would be willing to do a water change for you. I feel less can go wrong here since you will still control the parameters than treating with copper or formalin.> Thank you guys for an invaluable resource.. You've not only kept me well informed, but also sane on long days at work.. Cheers! Aaron <Good luck.> <Chris> Purple Tang beh... - 03/10/07 Hello WWM Crew, <<Hello Patrick, Lisa Brown here.>> I've looked around for some answers to this question with no avail. I have had a purple tang for about a month now. He is eating normally. His color looks very healthy. (Dark Purple) There are no signs of Lateral Line Disease, which seems to plaque many of these tangs. He looks and acts very healthy. <<Sounds great so far.>> Here is the problem. This fish gets small pieces of substrate caught in his skin or scales. I have two cleaner shrimp that he constantly goes to get cleaned, and they do take most of it off, but he just can't seem to be rid of this problem as more substrate gets caught on him after he has been cleaned. I am worried about this causing a possible parasitic infection. Please let me know what I should do. <<Will not 'cause' a parasite to show up 'may be a sign of one already around. Are you certain that what you are seeing is substrate, and not the encysted parasite? If you are 100% sure that it is indeed substrate, how is he getting it onto himself? Is he 'flashing' against rocks and the bottom of the tank? I can't understand how else he would manage this.>> Thanks in advance. Patrick C. <<Glad to help. Lisa Brown.>> Beat up and faded Purple Tang. (Proof-read?) 2/2/07 <Hi Erin. What follows is an example of poor E-penmanship. So as to shorten your Tang's suffering, I will try to help. Be advised: With each post that I have to decide whether I send it back for correction, ignore it, or correct it myself, I get a little shorter to ignore the content of said communications. That said, read these links and anything you feel relevant to your case here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs2.htm (This one may look particularly pertinent to you...) http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Tangdisease.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/skimopmntfaq14.htm (Scroll to the post, "Watchman goby and Nori, and skimmer op. 1/16/07" And follow-up with some searches here on WWM for Selcon, nutrition, etc.> Hi i am Erin Duggan and i just got a purple tang from a local fish store that was extremely beaten up and his color has almost totally faded. I was wondering if you could possibly offer me suggestions to help me in nursing the fish back to health. I currently have him in a 10 gallon "hospital" tank, which i am afraid might not be big enough for him but it is necessary to keep him away from my more aggressive fish in my other tank. What types of foods or vitamins or supplements can i feed it or put in the water to darken his color back up? The fish is faded to the point of which it appears there is scaring almost on its nose and front face. Is there anything in particular that i can do for that? Also i was wondering if there is anything that i can do to help speed up the healing process of the fins, this guy is in such bad shape that the dorsal and pectoral fin look like they have had big bites taken out of it which was probably the case). I adopted the fish to try and give it a chance at surviving instead of just being harassed by the other fish at the store. Hopefully you can offer me some advice that may help me to do so. There is a picture attached in this email that shows its condition. Does that appear to be lateral line disease? or is his color just so bad? <HTH -GrahamT> -Erin Sick purple tang please help! 9/26/06 I hope you can help us, We have a 55 gallon tank. <Too small for a Zebrasoma in the mid-upper size ranges> Ammonia .025 Salt 1.022 PH 8.3 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Temp 82 We have had the tang for a month. He has been active ever day lights on or off. He has gotten along with a Tomato Clown and two damsels. <Apparently not now...> Last night he started just hanging around the bottom of the tank, he was not swimming nearly as much. Over the last two weeks we have noticed a couple white spots on his body (possible. ich) but his belly area being a whiter color. Today he is just laying on the bottom, upside down, swimming upside down <Very bad...> and his white belly <White?> has gotten bigger. We are sooo sad. How can we fix him? <Bigger system, more suitable tankmates, possibly quarantine, prophylactic treatment for internal troubles...> We are doing a water change, added ammo lock and cleaned the tank. <Not useful> We will shut off the lights for 24 hours as well. ( I have been trying to figure out what to do from all of the other postings) We really want to save him. Please help! S & L Tang owners <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/z_xanthurum.htm and the linked files above. BobF> White spots (bacteria?) on purple tang 6/9/06 Hello. I recently purchased a purple tang from a LFS. Within 3 days he broke out in ich <Hopefully quarantined...> and what appear as dull white spots on his body (none on the fins). The cleaner shrimp took care of the ich within 2 days, but the white spots stayed. I believe it may be some sort of bacteria, possibly fungi. <Not...> The spots are approximately 2-3 times the size of the ich parasites and duller in color. They are also flatter against the fish's body than ich which appears as tiny grains of salt. I placed the fish in a QT tank <After? Then this is a treatment tank> and have treated for 4 days with Maracyn-Two and Melafix, <...> but with no success. The fish appears healthy (eats like a horse and is very active) other than the spots. I read on WWM that vitamins such as VitaChem and Selcon help against HLLE and overall just improve the immune system. Should I try this method, or continue treating with antibacterial medications? <I would switch> Is there anything other than Maracyn Two you can recommend if antibacterial meds is the way to go? Thank you for your help Jon <... I would not use antimicrobials here... The spots are likely simply residual stress markings from the Crypt, "treatments"... You can't see the microbes mentioned. Bob Fenner> With an itch (seven year?) 11/17/05 Hopefully this is acceptable WWB etiquette but I would like to ask a another couple questions regarding a different fish. <Okay> Based on the earlier e-mail I felt it was safe to move ahead with getting the Purple Tang for my 75 gallon (20 g sump). My LFS has ordered one for me and it should arrive later this week. I'm in the process of getting my QT (15 gallon) set up for it arrival. I plan using the WWB <Who?> <<That's what I've been asking you! MH>> suggested method of a sponge filter (has been main sump for +6 months), heater, power head, no lighting. I plan feeding Nori soaked in Selcon and Caulerpa. <Okay, but bad English> Would you recommend that I do a freshwater and/or Methylene blue dip before putting the tang into the QT? <Yes> Also what medication/treatment would you suggest if the tang comes down with Ich while in the QT? <... groan... this is posted> <<Ad nauseum.>> They seem to be prone to it so I would like to be prepared just in case I need to act quickly. <Yes> Also is there anything else you recommend I do to insure the success of the purple tang? <Please... read... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/z_xanthurum.htm and the linked files above> This my first time using a QT so I am still learning the ends and outs. After experiencing the problems of not using a QT, I felt it was prudent for both me and the fish give at try. Thanks again for you time. Shad Shriver <Please learn to/use WWM... Bob Fenner> Spots on Purple Tang 9/30/05 A group of spots in one general area on only one side of the tang. Not Ick. Been there since I purchased the tang approx 1 month ago. Look almost like bubbles on individual scales; you can see the convex shape when the tang is viewed from the front or back. I can't find a picture or reference on WWM or other sites. I haven't tried any cures / medications save the "healthy environment, healthy fish" attitude. <Good> Tang shows minimal discomfort but I want him to be as healthy as possible. Any ideas? <Very likely evidence of an internal protozoan complaint... likely Microsporidean... not catching, nor very debilitating. If it were mine, I would do "nothing" in the way of medication... These pathogens do come/go of their own accord.> Thanks in advance, and in retrospect, for all the advice shared online, <Glad to share. Bob Fenner>
Re: Purple Tang with horrible HLLE - There IS Hope! Bob, Thanks for the reply. Given his current state and taking the nutritional recommendations to heart (am always trying to improve water quality), what would you estimate his recovery to be? Expect him to look more normal to the point where people don't wonder what's wrong with that fish (restoration of the dorsal fin, reduced scarring)? Cheers, Marshall <I have witnessed "terrible" cases of neuromast destruction, involving surrounding tissue, that were completely, undetectably cured. Bob Fenner> Purple tang with fading belly Hi Crew,<Hi Dan, MacL here with you tonight> How's everybody in the WWM world? <Can't speak for everyone but I'm beat, its been a long day lol> I have a purple tang 3.5 inches in my 50G with my 1 yr old. blackback butterfly getting ready for release in my 8x2x2 has been running now for almost 3 months! <Very nice sized tank, I am envious> still empty! and YES! I cannot wait to start stocking woohooo! I bought this guy 6 weeks ago, 4 weeks in quarantine. <Fantastic> It was on sale for AU$99 normal price is $150 good deal?. <Honestly I am not familiar with Aussie prices but from what I understand that's about par> I put sheets of Nori twice a day and he is eating well. Angel formula, Bloodworms, Marine greens, Fresh mussels once a week. <Great, especially with the Nori, they are a grazing fish and they need their greens.> There is good amount of live rocks sorry I lost track of how much I have. Question, He is deeply purpled except for the belly underneath it looks faded. Is this normal? <Its something seen on a lot of tangs. I can tell you that mine are a bright purple over all, including on their stomach. One thing I can recommend is that you might want to add some vitamins, like Selcon or Zoë« or something similar.> or is it nutritional deficiency. <I can't imagine it would be with the Nori you are feeing it> It cant be the water, everything was tested fine. <Fine is hard to define. One thing tangs do need is a lot of oxygenation in their tank, lots of oxygen exchange.> I do weekly 5% water change. I am planning on releasing the butterfly first settle in for two weeks I am putting 7 butterflies in total. <Adding all those butterflies into a tank might be a problem unless they are schooling butterflies, but I'm sure you have done your research on that> All hardy picks from Bob's list then I will place the purple last. <Probably good idea because they tend to be aggressive> Thank you again for your time. Wish you all the best!!! <So kind of you Dan, please let us know how it goes!> Regards Dan One Eyed Wonder! (Purple Tang With A Missing Eye) Hi! <Hey there! Scott F. with you tonight!> I have a few concerns with my reef aquarium that I hope you can help me with. I'm addressing everything I'm not sure about here at once, so I hope it's not too long!!! <I've got a large Thai Iced Tea, so no problem...> The first is about my Purple Tang. It lost one of it's eyes to injury 5 days ago (eye completely gone leaving empty socket), and as soon as one of it's tank mates, a Lunar Wrasse, realized it was injured, it started harassing, sometimes attacking the Tang. <An unfortunate, but common behavior> This Wrasse has killed weakened tank-mates before and has proven itself to be a pest in general (although very entertaining with lots of personality any other time! Sad to see it go.... had it for 2 years), so the next day it had to be caught & taken back to the shop, which was not an easy task and involved dismantling half of the reef to catch! <never a fun thing to do, but sometimes necessary under such circumstances> Needless to say, this was very stressful for the injured Tang. But it was the only way to salvage it that I could think of. It is now starting to recover and trying to finding it's way around etc. <That's nice to hear> It was showing a bit of a pop-eye in the one remaining after being beaten around, but this has now been gone for 2 days. <Usually, this condition will clear up on its own, given nice clean water conditions. Or, you can utilize Epsom salts to help reduce the swelling> The problem I have now, is that it does not seem to be able to find the food I put in the tank, and when it does see some, misses when it goes to catch it. I feed 'Sea Veggies', frozen shrimp with greens, and 'spectrum' pellets when in a rush. I've tried tearing up lettuce and taking it down to the Tang with tongs, but it is too afraid to approach (and I don't think it likes lettuce much anyway...). <Lettuce and "terrestrial" greens are really not good choices for tangs, IMO.> Do you have any feeding suggestions I could try? <Get some of my favorite macroalgae, Gracilaria parvispora, AKA "Ogo" or "Tang Heaven". You can order this awesome algae directly from Indo Pacific Sea Farms on line> I have been dosing with 'Melafix' (a eucalyptus antibacterial) to avoid infection. All seems good so far, but I am wondering how long the eye should take to heal over, and what it will actually look like when it does. That is, will it just have a membrane-like growth over the cavity or should the scales join up? <Hard to say, really. Usually, there is membrane over the injury, as opposed to scales. It probably depends upon where the injury occurred> I'd like to know what to expect so I know when it is completely healed. This Tang often had little pieces nipped out of it's fins, but they have always grown back within a week, and I think it was in good health before it's injury. I hope I am right! <If it was in good shape before the injury, odds are that it can make a reasonably good recovery> FYI- tank is 4 ft, has been running for about 3 years, with corals ( I really don't know which ones, but both hard and soft) for 2 years. I have an Aquaclear 500 filter and Cosmo 2000 powerhead (no skimmer, I change 25% fortnightly using RO topups), 2 white & 2 actinic blue globes for lighting. Water parameters all normal, Ca- 425 ppm, pH- 8.1, Alkalinity- 3.5, Ammonia, Nitrites & Nitrates zero (although probably more right now since stirring up the substrate while moving the rocks around, I haven't checked since! I know, I am bad... will change water in 2days anyway), Phosphate- 2ppm, am still working on this, using SeaChem PhosGuard. <Don't forget quality source water, aggressive skimming, and regular use of activated carbon!> Remaining tankmates are only 1 Pacific Blue Tang and a Percula Clown, plus various snails/ little crabs. I know there is a Pistol Shrimp, and judging by all the noise I think there is a Mantis in there also, which I am trying to catch. I am not sure how to tell the difference between mantis clicks & pistol clicks though. <Not sure myself!> I have seen the pistol's claws once so I know what that one is, but never seen the other/s (there may be many others all clicking at once- I really don't know!) in all the years I have been hearing it! Plus, I have only ever 'lost' one damsel over a year ago, so that makes me a bit suspicious, too. They live at opposite ends of the reef and one will only click once or twice at a time, the other/s will click up to 6 times in short succession. Is there any way to identify without seeing? <Not to my knowledge...> I'm trying to catch them using a water bottle with a tube in the end & bait inside the bottle, since one of them broke the trap I bought previously... <Smart little buggers, huh?> Am getting a little nervous having them around my disabled fish now! Any baiting ideas you have would be much appreciated. <Check out this link: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/stomatopods/mantisshrimp.htm > Anyway, that's it! Apologies for writing you a novel to get through! Thanks very much for taking the time to read, and I really appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks again!!! Bye! Emma <My pleasure, Emma! I may not have been able to give you the exact answers to your questions, but I hope I was able to get you headed in the right direction. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Help! Purple Tang has turned brown-green and won't eat Hi, Thanks for your excellent web-site. I've kept marine aquariums for almost 5 years now, and have a problem I've never encountered, and can't find a reference on the web. My purple tang, who for 3 or 4 months has been very fat and healthy (along with all the other residents of the tank) has over the past 10 days: 1) stopped eating, and 2) changed color over most of his body (looks like he's been covered with grey/green dust). (He's still purple on his sides where his fins fold back against his body) 3) I don't observe any ulcerations, holes, or fin damage. I've tried enticing him with different foods (Ocean Nutrition's "Formula 1", "Formula 2", and "Brine Shrimp Plus", Frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworms, Waltham's "Aquarian", Aquatrol's "Spirulina 20", "Nutrafin Max", freeze-dried krill... but he still has no appetite. He won't even eat lettuce, which he used to devour. He has become more shy, and will hide when I walk up to the tank (he used to do this on occasion, but now does it every time). When he doesn't know he's being observed I can see that he is still pretty active, but has started to look really gaunt in the back half of his body. Specs: 100 Gallon Uniquarium, fish only, habitually understocked (other inhabitants are 6" blonde Naso, 5" Foxface, 3" flame angel, 3" long-nosed Hawkfish, 3 small damsels) Uniquarium has: - venturi protein skimmer - foam-block pre-filters - carbon bag chemical filters - wet/dry bio-balls biological - I don't know the GPM on the power head, but it's the one that came with the Uniquarium Feeding - I usually feed mostly flake (variety of Formula 1, Formula 2, and Brine Shrimp Plus), and usually a full leaf of Romaine lettuce daily. <Ahh, much here. I would look to environmental/nutritional causes from the above. The bio-filtration produces nitrates which should come down to less than 40. The lower the better, but difficult with the type of filtration you have. Now, for primary cause in my opinion...diet, which is contributing to parasites, bacterial, or fungal condition. This fish eats vegetative matter in the wild and needs it in captivity. Land based foods like lettuce are inadequate. Feed Nori, algae, perhaps Caulerpa, etc. The Formula 2 *frozen* food would be a good addition as well as soaking foods in Selcon. Brine shrimp is like Ho-Ho's or Twinkies. Brine shrimp plus is like those frosted donuts.> Maintenance - I do 15-20 gallon changes every 2 weeks; ammonia & nitrite always at 0, nitrate sometimes as high as 80ppm but usually 20 or 40. Copper is 0. Temp stays at 79, salinity at 1.023. Everybody else in the tank is very fat, healthy, active, peaceful, and happy. Help! Thanks - Joel Sweat <I would work on optimizing water and diet. QT if needed to control disease and treat as needed. Start with a FW dip. Raise temp to 83 in QT. Most likely ick/velvet or bacterial from overall stress, diet, nitrates. Please write if you need further assistance, Craig> Sick purple tang I have a purple tang that I had in a qt tank for about three weeks and just put him in my 50 gallon reef tank about a week ago. Since then he has been eating but has just started to get ick then the next night I noticed a blister like white spot on his left side and an indention directly below it but it does not look like he is starving (especially since he is eating well). His diet consists of formula two with Spirulina some dried seaweed and live seaweed and some frozen brine shrimp. Hope you can help thanks in advance. Dan <This could have been caused by a stressful acclimation. I would move the fish back to the quarantine tank for treatment; once he is back in shape try placing him in the display again. Checkout the disease section of WWM, you should be able to identify the pathogen in question and how to treat it. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm With proper treatment you should be able to clear this up -- Good luck, Gage> Purple Tang Dilemma Good afternoon to you all! <<And good morning to you, JasonC here.>> I have a reef system (set up for about 8 months now). I have now encountered my first problem. My 4 inch purple tang has some sort of illness but I'm not sure what. He has been flashing around the tank and now has white splotches (not white spots like with ick). I'm concerned that it might be marine velvet. <<It could be...>> What I don't understand is that he has been in the tank for about 3mths and all inhabitants before and since have been quarantined for at least 2wks. <<Hmmm... well, two weeks of quarantine is a little short, I like to shoot for a month or more, just because it can take a while for parasitic problems to show themselves. But I don't want to beat you up over quarantine - to do this at all is better than many.>> My tang is now in the hospital tank and I'm wondering if I should just freshwater dip him every other day or should I use something more drastic like CopperSafe. <<I would start with the dips - do make sure you match the pH of the dip water to that of the quarantine tank. Try to avoid the copper for a little while if you can - copper often causes problems for the tangs as it kills off unique fauna in their gut. I'd wait and see how the dips go - perhaps for a week. As long as the fish is eating and getting around well, you've got some time.>> Awaiting your wisdom, Christina 0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, < 5 nitrate, spg 1.024, pH 8.2, Alk 3.2 meq/L Ca 420,water change every 2wks <<Sounds good. Cheers, J -- >> Purple Tang Dear Mr. Fenner, Mr. Calfo, or Mr. Pro, I appreciate you guys answering my question about adding fish to my aquarium, that I asked you guys a few days ago. Now I just have one more question that I hope you can help me with. I will be receiving a Purple Tang that has outgrown a fellow marine fish enthusiasts tank, and I will be putting it in a 150 gallon aquarium. My question is, I have a 29 gallon quarantine tank set up for it, and I was wondering if you felt that this would be a big enough tank for it, <It should be unless the fish is very large, over 6" long.> and also how long you would quarantine it for, <In this particular instance since it is not coming from a store and should be coming from a healthy environment, you could shorten the QT period to two weeks IF the fish behaves perfectly the entire time. Otherwise, one month.> if after a few days of being in quarantine it shows no signs of illness or disease and it is active and eating? <Two weeks is the absolute minimum.> Also, do you think that a freshwater/ Methylene blue dip both before and after quarantine would be helpful in this situation? <In this situation, probably not needed. Again, do to you getting this fish from a fellow hobbyist versus a store.> I have read all your articles on these subjects, and I am just confirming that you agree with my course of action. Thank you very much, I appreciate your help! Craig S <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Purple tang Hi! I have a Purple tang for about 4 month in a 75 gal reef tank with only 1 Tomatoe clown & 2 cleaner Shrimp., several snails and hermits. I feed the Purple tang twice a day. Once Seaweed Selects and once either Frozen Spirulina-Formula 2 or Kelp which I rotate. Twice a week I soak the seaweed in Zoe and Zoecon. Recently I noticed White spots over the purple tangs body. They are not bubble-like or really look like ich. They just seem to be dis-colorations from head to tail. At looks the fish seems fine and they can only be seen from a certain angle. They have recently grown in numbers. The tang doesn't rub up/ scratch against any of the rock and still has a great appetite. Is this ich or some other disease? <tough to say from the description but tangs are indeed very susceptible to external parasites. Temperature changes between night and day (house air conditioning, etc) and cool water changes are culprits commonly> I have recently noticed the tang has been hanging out with one of the cleaner shrimp. Could this be irritation from the cleaner shrimp cleaning at him? <not likely... the tang would avoid the shrimp if so... sounds like the tang has an infection and is looking for cleaning service> Should this fish be quarantined? <definitely, my friend. Continue the good feeding. Keep stable temp. Do water changes form a bare bottomed QT tank. FW dips for 7-10 days and medicate with formalin or tested copper if necessary. Ideally a 4 week QT stay to be sure> Please let me now what you think. Thanks for your time! - Ron <best regards, Anthony> Ick on my purple tang Hello, I recently bought a purple tang which was a pretty decent size, I added him directly to my reef tank and of course he got ick within a few days . After a week I noticed he was not getting any better in fact worse now he would not eat and swimming lethargic at the top so I took him out and put him in a 10 gal tank with just a rock to hide behind, a filter and a powerhead for oxygen. I am using rid ich medication and changing water everyday he got better the first week, and started eating again. I am supplementing my frozen foods with garlic, Zoë« and marine c vitamin, he was getting better everyday the first week, on my second week now, I have noticed he is breathing very rapidly and he constantly stay s almost completely pale white hardly any color but as soon as I walk in the room he comes out to eat but still stays discolored I have been checking my water parameters daily and everything is fine. By the way there is no light on the tank at all. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks or help ! <Stop the Rid Ick, perform a FW dip as per directions on WetWebMedia.com, change water in QT to remove Rid Ick and dose with copper at 0.25ppm for two weeks, then two weeks w/o copper. Test copper twice daily with the proper test for the copper you use. Hold your main tank fallow of fish for at least one month. There are no short cuts. Please QT all new fish for at least two weeks before introduction to display with healthy fish. There is much valuable information available on WWM. Type "ick", "copper" and "quarantine" in the google search engine at the bottom of the page. Let us know if you need more help! Craig>
Purple Tang Question? >I have a purple tang with ich. I have a 75 gallon tank with about 80 pounds of live rock. I have 1 brown Lobophyllia and 1 bulb anemone. I have a clean-up crew which is 2 brittle stars, 1 sea cucumber, 2 peppermint shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp, 2 emerald crabs, and several red legged hermits and turbo snails. My fish are the purple tang, six-line wrasse, 2 green Chromis, blue spotted goby, and a tomato clown. About a week ago I noticed my tang came down with ich really bad. He was totally covered with the ich. It was so bad I didn't think he was going to make it. I don't have a sick or quarantine tank so I decided to try and treat my tank with Kick-Ich. After the fist dose the tang seemed better. He seemed to do a little better each day of treatment. He is swimming around and eating like normal. Today makes exactly a week of treatment and he looks as bad as the first day I treated the tank. He swims over to the cleaner shrimp but it seems they can't make the connection. When the tang first came down with the ich the shrimp seemed like he was helping, but not anymore. Everyone in the tank is doing great. I feel so bad for the guy. Is there something you could suggest? He's a fighter and I would hate to lose him. >>Hi Randy. Truthfully, I would be remiss if I told you to try the Kick-ich again or any other similar treatment. The fact is that they are unproven as cures. There are two methods that I know of that are completely *proven* as cures for ich, and both absolutely require that you remove all vertebrates (unless your display had no inverts in it) to a q/t-hospital tank. They are hyposalinity and copper. I strongly suggest you set up a hospital system (it doesn't have to be devised of a fish tank, it can be any non-reactive watertight container), move all fish into it, and choose for them either of the two options. If you opt for hyposalinity, you'll need to bring it down to 1.010 or less. If you opt for copper, you'll need a test kit (those who say you can do this w/out the test kit are tempting fate). In the meantime, slightly increase your tank temperature to 82F and let it lie fallow for 6-8 weeks. I'm the "better safe than sorry" type and would let it go with no fish for 8 weeks. Kick-ich is pretty much a waste of money and you lose precious time when it comes to aggressively eradicating this persistent pest. >My water: >salinity is 1.024 >PH is 8.2 >ammonia 0 >nitrite 0 >nitrate 10 ppm >>If possible, try to get your nitrates at least in half. Persistent low levels have been associated with problems with disease and the like. Good luck! Marina Re: Purple Tang Question? >Thank you for responding so quickly. >>Quite welcome, Randy. Sorry it wasn't in time. >I'm sad to say that over night my tang has died. What should be my next step? You suggested cutting my nitrates in half...how can I accomplish this? >>A 50% water change would do the trick, should cut them down to under 10, I would think. I need to let you know that your system is not free of ich, so if you plan to replace this fish with another tang (or similarly easily affected animal) you'll need to go the hospital tank route. >Once again thank you for your help...my only regret is not finding you sooner. >>Ours as well, but now you know. However, don't be too disheartened, as it's not uncommon for some species of fish to succumb to ich VERY quickly. This is why I get so irritated when shops sell something like Kick-ich, when it *won't* treat the ich (the cysts fall of no matter what--it's part of the lifecycle) and simply leaves the owner unaware. Here you are thinking you'd done something to treat the problem, but no. Anyway, in my opinion you want to also consider how you can best provide NSW (near sea water) conditions in as stress-free an environment, with the very best nutrition possible for your fish. This is *especially* true if you haven't got the hospital-q/t system (though I really stress q/t ALL new additions, minimum 30 days). These pathogens are present in the wild, and the fish can fight them off because they're quite healthy. When you have an animal that can't fight them off, it means there's an underlying problem. Wait to replace the fish, address these other issues, and I'm sure you'll have much better success. Marina Purple Tang Purple Tang started showing few spots of ich, feed garlic soaked food and gave a FWD with Meth blue, spots disappeared overnight. It came back hard after about a week, still feeding garlic and giving 10-15 min FWD every couple of days but no real improvement. Fish seems okay with the dips, just getting harder to catch. Questions, how often can FWD's be given and should I expect the spots to drop off after the dip? At the start, spots would be gone after the dip but back by morning, now they don't seem to be dropping off at all. <FWD's are very stressful to all salt fish not to mention the stress of catching it daily. Many of the spots should drop off. However, this fish is getting weaker with each dip and that's making it more susceptible to ich infestation. My friend, do you have a quarantine tank? It would really come in handy. You could administer copper and get rid of the dips. If this interests you, please read about disease treatment at Wetwebmedia.com There is lots of information archived at this site...including directions for FWD's and a copper treatment. Please don't administer copper in your main tank> Thanks Mark <You're welcome. I'm just sorry that your having this problem...David Dowless> Purple Tang / Brooklynella / Mouth Sore Hello panel, I have a 4" purple tang that after a year and a half in the 110 has had an outbreak that looked like Brooklynella; irregular whitish flaky patches (3 cleaner shrimp went nuts on these when the fish was sleeping), stopped eating, generally stayed facing a rock and struggled to keep balance, breathing was normal. I pH-adjusted-FW dipped with Meth Blue and put it in 10 ga hospital tank with Formalite II AND Neomycin (for secondary infection prevention). He was in this bath at recommended levels of medication for 14 days. Patches went away and I felt victorious (pride comes before a fall). In hospital tank, it developed a sore/pinkish reddish lesion covering his upper lip that won't go away. Not getting bigger or smaller. I couldn't control ammonia levels (at high end of Hagen test kit scale) with that size fish in such a 10 ga tank even with water changes so about 7 days ago I put it in a well cycled 30 ga quarantine tank that has 0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings. I thought the ammonia was poisoning him and he seems to be doing better in 30 ga. Sore is still there but he is swimming a little more. Starting to get some HLLE beginning around eyes (probably water quality related) and this morning he has a small flaky white patch aft of gill cover (Arghh!). It also twitches dorsal fin every second or two which is something new. Is it because he can see a yellow tang in another q-tank nearby? Is it something else? <Hmm, it could be both as far as behavior. The patch indicates there is still a problem. I personally like copper treatment and medicated food (Metronidazole). See parasitic disease section of WetWebMedia.com. Tetra medicated food is actually addictive (my observation), may get fish to eat.> It still has deep purple color but won't eat food provided. Do you have any ideas on what is bothering this fish and what steps I may take to get him back to his old self other than what I've tried? Four weeks now, and it hasn't eaten any Nori (although there is plenty of micro algae in both tanks he may be nibbling on... I can't imagine it can go for a month w/o eating and it is not getting skinnier). I assume it won't eat as long as the sore is there and my experience with fresh-water fish and mouth sores tells me that I better do something or "that's all she wrote" for my purple friend. Sincerely, John Ilg <He may be eating nothing but microalgae which may cause the mouth problem, although I lean to the water quality to start (in the 10). The mouth sore should clear up on it's own if it's not too extensive. I would stop the formalin and neomycin, keep copper at recommended levels (WetWebMedia.com) and maintain water quality. The color change is related to stress and conditions. Lower light and give him plastic/inert hiding places to help with stress. Best of luck! Craig>> Zebrasoma stocking Thank you for the help Mike! Regarding your comment about stressing-out the Purple tang to the point it gets ich; I QT all new fish for at least four weeks before adding them to my main tank. <that is what everyone should do!> If any signs of ich are present, I add Copper or CLOUT and keep them in QT for four weeks after the last signs of ich. I cannot use copper in my main tank and I cannot catch the fish once they have been released into my main tank, so this is very necessary for me. On WetWebMedia, I have read that there very good reason to expect to never have ich in the main tank if such QT procedures are followed. <in a perfect tank this is true> This being the case, do you still feel that the Purple Tang could be at risk for developing ich? <under this strict quarantine most likely not> I ask because I had considered using copper on ALL incoming fish (regardless of signs of parasites) as a preventative measure but I was advised that 90+% of fish present signs of ich during the four week QT period if they have any Cryptocaryon on them. <ich is present all the time in your substrate when a fish become stress it's slime coat breaks down causing parasites to attach to the fish> If ich could break out at any time, then it seems it must always be present either in the water or dormant on the fish. If this is the case, allowing a tank to go fallow for four weeks to eradicate Cryptocaryon seems almost pointless (except for a near-term reduction in crypto population). <yes but this quarantine that you put these fish threw ,not only gets rid of any parasites on the fish but gives the fish time to build up his slime coat and to make sure he is feeding well, so that he will be able to feed aggressively when entered into the main tank> Please help clear this up for me as I have been struggling for the best insurance against ich. <what you are doing is right on the money. you are taking every step you can. but one thing you can not predict is how another fish will act with another good luck Mike H> Thank you, -- Greg Wyatt Purple Tang Bob, I recently purchased a purple tang. It arrived healthy, however it died the next morning. I received a replacement, which lived for a month. Both fish appeared healthy. The second one was swimming great one minute, the next it was on the bottom, one eye sunk into its head the other eye bulging out of its socket. It couldn't swim, I froze it. All water levels were fine. Is it possible these fish were caught using cyanide? None of my other fish exhibited any signs of problems. Thanks, Jeff <<Yikes... very frightening... And though I've heard of rumours ("Philippine divers collecting livestock in the Red Sea... usually Saudi Arabia... using cyanide"... News at 11:00!), I really doubt these... Know a bit of the areas involved and the hearts/minds of the "powers that be" in the countries bordering this Zebrasoma's distribution... and this practice would be dealt with quickly... Suspect you're the victim of a tremendous bad coincidence... most Purple tangs are great on arrival... very few DOA's... but maybe you received two badly handled specimens... Bob Fenner, still a big Purple Tang fan>> Purple Tang Bob, I have a Purple Tang in my reef tank that in the last couple of days has developed white lips. He has been in my system for about three months with no apparent problems. All critical water parameters seem to be correct. What could this be? And what should I do if anything? <<Hmmm, well, I'm inclined to accept that "it" may be nothing other than normal color, or a rub-effect from the animal feeding on what you have in the tank... or swiping one of your sugar donuts when you're having your java in the AM (just joking to the last)... but I'd do nothing if the Tang is fine otherwise... Bob Fenner who wishes we were diving in the Red Sea right now, so I could point out some of these Zebrasoma that show this "white lip" condition on the reef...>> Tang Hi, I recently purchased a small Purple Tang to add to my 46 gallon reef tank. The tank has a protein skimmer and good water movement throughout the tank (powerheads). The fish eats well, I feed a variety of foods formula 2,lifeline,reef flakes, brine shrimp). The problem is that in the late evening about 2 hours before the lights go out, it gets white dots on his body and fins. It looks like marine ich when the lights come on in the morning, the dots are gone, but he left with small blotches where the dots were. Any ideas? The water quality is good. <<May be stress coloration... or just natural markings... or a latent infestation of ich... Do you have a biological cleaner, like a Lysmata shrimp? You might consider one of these for your tank... Otherwise, just keep your eyes on your Tang for signs the condition might be worsening. Bob Fenner>> Quarantine Tank After all this reading, I went out and bought a 20 gallon quarantine tank with small power head, heater and light (off most of the time) for my incoming Purple Tang, Kole Tang, Lawnmower Blenny, and Banded Goby. I bought a piece of cured live rock (been in the LFS store for weeks), and set it up in my garage with water from my main tank(75). I dipped everything in buffered freshwater with Methylene for 15 minutes. The Purple Tang came down with ich 2 days later, so I dipped him again, lowered salinity to 17 over two days, and raised my temperature to 82. None of this seemed to help so I removed the live rock, and put copper in the tank. This started to help but then my big fear came to reality. My ammonia shot up, even though I only fed a small pinch of flake food every other day. 25% water changes didn't seem to help much. Not wanting to kill all these fish, I figured my reef is in great shape and moved everything in there after a buffered freshwater dip. All the fish but that Purple are doing good, although the Kole spends all his time hiding. I've been lowering the salinity of my reef from 26 to 17 and raised my temp to 84. He doesn't show as much ich but now he shows more like powdery splotches, and he has a kind of spastic behavior next to the glass on one side of the tank. Now what do I do? How could I have kept the ammonia from shooting up when I put in the copper and removed the live rock? Thanks! Marty Wigder <<As far as I know, you did most everything "right"... the ammonia spike might have been skipped or reduced by having more cultured filter media... or dumping, refilling the quarantine tank from your main tank... At this point, I would add a Lysmata Cleaner shrimp... and hope for the best for the Purple Tang...Much more handling/manipulation is probably going to be more deleterious at this point than helpful. Bob Fenner, who might actually "copper treat" all Purple Tangs on arrival from now on... after hearing this account.>> Purple tang I have a 55 gallon tank with live rock. I have a majestic angel, potters angel Percula clown, purple Firefish and a purple tang. The tang has just come down with little white spots. It does not look like Ich, but the spots are kind of cottony looking spots. I have had this fish for about 7 mths now. I have a wet dry filter (sea life system) and a power head. We had just moved and the tank has been set up for about 3 weeks now and everything was going good. The tang is still very active and is eating good. Any thoughts on this? Should I treat the tank? Thank You, Larry from Tampa <<A few... this may well be some sort of latent external parasite that has surfaced from the stress of the move... At this point I would: Lower the specific gravity of the system to 1.018. Raise the temperature to about 83F. And add a single or couple of Cleaner Shrimp of the genus Lysmata... And hold off and see if this "does it"... if not, ring me back. Bob Fenner>> Purple Tang "Ich" I bought a small Purple Tang through Flying Fish. When I received the Tang he was alive and very alert, he altogether displayed no signs of illness. Upon releasing him into the tank, he swam over to the algae covered rocks and started to dine. I thought this was an excellent sign that he was in great shape. However, after getting up the next morning and turning on the aquarium light he was covered in white spots. In reading our marine aquarist manual, we figured that he has developed Ich as a stress reaction of some sort. Is there a way to treat his Ich without removing him into a quarantine tank? We have live rock, some corals and a few invertebrates and the helper at the local fish store stated that anything he has to treat the Ich would have effects on the reef and the di-nitrifying bacteria. <<The fellow at the local shop is right... you can't effectively treat the Tang in place... If you are fortunate, and the infestation is not too virulent, you may have success at doing the following: 1) Lower the specific gravity of your water to 1.018 2) Raise the water temperature to 84F. (for this species) 3) Add some biological cleaners... My fave are Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) and/or Gobiosoma gobies. And if the spots don't go away, or your other fish livestock take ill, you should move them to a separate hospital/quarantine system... which you really should set up and operate as standard operating procedure.... And if you want my ideas on these topics in detail, please see the articles posted at www.wetwebmedia.com Bob Fenner>> Purple Tang with HLLE I purchased a purple tang about three weeks ago that has some Head and Lateral Line Erosion. I am feeding Ocean Nutrition Flakes, formula 1 & 2, Ocean Nutrition frozen cubes (the meaty one, not the green one) and try to always have a sheet of algae in there for the tangs to graze on. Is this diet good enough to clear up the problem, and should I expect it to completely go away? <<A bunch of factors need to be considered, optimized in the animals favor to ward off, repair such a condition: If the animal has a "good" genetic and developmental background (not thrashed in collection, handling, shipping), and you can provide an optimized and stable environment, and supply it with proper nutrition.... The water quality question is probably number two in the "hit parade" of failures with HLLE.... and is most easily improved with the use live rock, macro-algae, and best: mud/muck and Caulerpa algae with lighted sump/filter... The nutrition part of the equation... I would augment what you're doing with application of aqueous vitamins and iodine... just put this on the fishes food ahead of offering it... There are advocates of "other" causes in these matters, stray electrical potential, protozoan involvements (Octomita necatrix, aka Hexamita)... and more... ignore these.... they are not the root cause(s) of your fish's complaint. Bob Fenner>> Purple tang, ozone Q's Dear Bob, I have a few question for you. first, why every time I purchase a purple tang they will develop white spot for few days and then go off since I kept marine for 16 years? <General stress> Now I have a purple tang 1.8 inch , Asfur angel 2 inch and 2 flame hawk in my 190g f/o tank running with ozone with controller set at 350mv at 10mg/l and u/v only on at 0100am to 6am daily. <I'd leave the UV on permanently... much more effective> Will the purple tang pass those white spot to the Asfur since I experience purple tang white spot only occur for 2 - 3 days and then goes off? <Too likely, yes. Do you have a dip, quarantine procedure for new fish livestock? You should. Please read over these topics on the marine index of the site: www.wetwebmedia.com> will u/v burn off the slime on fishes? <Not practically... some UV's are powerful enough to produce ozone in sufficient quantity to raise RedOx to this point... but rare... not in your case> can I set my ozone to 25 or 40 mg/l base on the fishes I indicated above and my tank is 72" x 24"x 30" and sump at 36" x18" x 18" ? thank bob and wish you and all fish lovers a HAPPY NEW YEAR <Hmmm, milligrams per liter? Per how much time? If all your ozone source produces is a few hundred milligrams of 03 per hour total, no problems... Bob Fenner> Cooling and Purple Tang In response to your prior message, about the fact that a wealth of information regarding quarantine, etc. is available on your website (and I agree on that--because I have now scoured it thoroughly), I wish I'd done a little more research on every aspect of keeping a marine aquarium before I got started. Unfortunately, most marine aquaria retailers are not particularly concerned about the knowledge base of new owners, and when an aspiring "fishkeeper" comes in to buy a new setup and spend a bunch of money, they're thinking about the buck and not about the health of the system or livestock! <And doesn't this apparent attitude strike you as "odd"? I mean, what better "advertising" (overall promotion) of their/the business could there be than successful aquarist customers? In what field of endeavor, vocation does it "pay" to have an un- or mis- informed public?> It would be nice if LFS's offered a "new aquarist" course--even 3 or 4 hours about the basics--like the nitrogen cycle, stocking, livestock compatibility, lighting, etc. I learned about the nitrogen cycle (and most everything else) on my own--and I still am. <No books?> (Still waiting on your book to arrive, too.) Not making excuses--just wishing I hadn't been so naive in the beginning. <Ah, woulda, coulda, shoulda... a common refrain> At any rate, I'm the type of person that loves to learn new things and master new challenges--so I'm not apt to throw my hands up and roll over. (And I otherwise thoroughly enjoy gazing into the tank for 2 or 3 hours every evening!) <Ahh, good outlook and preoccupation> I haven't set up a QT tank yet--however, no more new fish until that's taken care of. The white area on the underside of the purple tang was a little larger yesterday. He otherwise appears normal, very active and feeding well. I added two cleaner shrimp as you suggested. Within minutes of introducing them to the tank, the two yellow tangs were letting the shrimp crawl all over them and do their cleaning chores. <A good, better sign... likely the Purple Zebrasoma will capitulate> The purple hasn't taken to the cleaners as of yet--hopefully he'll follow the lead of the yellows. (Question here--the purple tang is the smallest of the three--and the least dominant. Should I have added three cleaners so that the purple wouldn't have to compete for their services?) Patience, patience. <No on the first, definitely yes on the latter.> I also picked up some Selcon to soak their food in--and some frozen brine and krill, to add some variety to their diet. I'm also keeping sheet algae available for them to graze on at all times--and the tangs all look much better. Any other thoughts on the purple, other than watch and wait? <Yes my anxious friend> I did add a ventilation system to the tank on Saturday. I installed two 3" cooling fans from Radio Shack by attaching them on the "ledge" at the top of the back of the tank with silicon sealer. With the lids on the tank, they're not visible. They draw room air through the gap at the top of the back of the tank. The wiring goes to a little plastic box under the stand that has two switches on it, and the fans can be independently controlled. The cord from the switchbox plugs into the same timer as the lights--so the fan (or fans) only come on when the lights are on. With one fan on, the temp stays at about 79.5 to 80. If it gets hotter this summer, both fans can be turned on, and the heater (set to 79) keeps the temp from dropping too much from the fans (or at night after the lights go off). The whole setup is keeping the temp within a 1 to 1 1/2 degree range. <Very good> Also, I sent a message last week about red "hair" looking stuff. That was waste from the bubble coral. I fed it again this weekend--the next day, it started purging the waste--and that's what it was. (I managed to scoop most of it up with a net and remove it from the tank.) So no BGA. <Good> Hope you had a nice weekend. Thanks for your patience and responsiveness. James A. Deets <And you for your friendship and caring endeavors. Kia orana. Bob Fenner> Parasites? Fungus? OK--always something to learn, sometimes the hard way. As I mentioned in my email earlier today, I just scoured the WWM site today and read all about quarantining new fish. Unfortunately, I didn't read enough a few weeks ago before I started adding livestock, and added three tangs last weekend--two medium yellow tangs and a small Red Sea purple tang. No freshwater dip or QT time before putting them in the main tank. <How could I make this information more accessible? What is it about human nature that the industry waxes and wanes on providing these simple prophylactic practices? Think of how many organisms unnecessarily lost... and the turnover in hobbyist/customers... > The yellow tangs look fine. I've increased their feeding to once per day, as their stomach areas were looking a little thin. Other than that, they seem pretty good. <Feed them more frequently still... in the wild are almost constantly scavenging, searching for greens, aufwuchs...> The purple, on the other hand, has a small white spot, about the size of a pinhead, on the right side of his upper "lip". Also, when he lowers the fins on his underside, his abdomen is white where his fins lay against it. He also likes to rub against the rocks--he's been "skipping" against the rocks since day one. I'm relatively certain he's got something that needs to be dealt with, but I'm not quite sure what it is or how to treat it. Kind of like new parents with a sick child for the first time. <Doesn't sound like a parasitic protozoan problem... not much at least, yet...> What does this sound like, and how should I treat it? (Looks like my fan/ventilation project might have just gotten supplanted with setting up a QT tank this weekend. . .) <Good on the last count... on the treatment front, add/soak their food (including some oriental food store sheet algae) in Selcon (vitamin mix) for five ten minutes, and consider adding Gobiosoma gobies or Cleaner Shrimp... you know where the explanations, expansions on these ideas are to be found. Bob Fenner> Thanks for your help. James Deets Growth on Purple Tang Bob--My purple tang has a growth on its left side, about 1 cm below its gill, and right in front and a little below the pectoral fin. It looks like a wart--Lymphocystis. I thought Lymphocystis typically only affected the fins--at least that's what I've typically seen. But in reading the FAQs I see that's not the case. <Yes> I did notice a light spot a few weeks ago, where the growth is now. It looked like the tang had probably been tussling with one of the yellows and had gotten scraped. So I do have reason to believe there was some damage to his or her scales at that spot. It's a pretty good sized growth tonight--probably about 3-4mm in diameter. <...> None of the other fish seem to be affected. I also haven't added any livestock to the system for several months. I've never had a sick fish--I guess there's a first time for everything. <As the saying goes... I would rather state that there is a first time for "many things" as well as a last> One hint is that since I moved the tank, I've been battling Cyano off and on pretty regularly. I've tried just about everything--siphoning it out, cleaned the lights of salt buildup (bulbs are only 5 months old), water changes, with no luck. I never had a Cyano problem before moving the tank to the other room. Now I can't seem to beat it. I'm hoping the improvements on the new system will correct this problem. <Have you seen the "BGA/Cyano" piece on the www.WetWebMedia.com site? Or the similar article by me that ran last Winter ish of SeaScope? A brief summation of what folks do re...> I've tested water parameters regularly--I've got NH3, NO2 at zero, and NO3 at about 2-3 ppm. pH has been running right around 8.0. At any rate, my surmise is that a degradation in water quality seems to have been triggered by moving the system (as evidenced by the Cyano), which when combined with the small injury to this fish, has caused enough stress to allow him (or her) to develop Lymphocystis. <Likely all related.> Should I just leave this alone, and hope it clears up on its own once everyone is settled into the new system, or should I do something since I'm going to have the opportunity when moving the livestock on Saturday? In one of the FAQs, you recommend using a cotton swab to daub the Lymphocystis with a mercuric compound. Should I try this when I move the fish, since I'm going to be handling him or her anyway, or just hope the larger system and Lysmata shrimp will clear this up naturally? <I would likely leave this alone for now... this problem develops slowly... and may resolve itself as you hint with the growing improvement of your system. Bob Fenner> Thanks for your insights. James D, concerned about his favorite fish. . . Purple Tang and HLLE Please Help!!! Hello, Please help!!! I am becoming very frustrated. I have a 150 gal reef tank (mostly mushrooms. and polyps.) w/ a wet/dry-Prot. Skimmer, along w/ two Aquaclear 500's constantly running activated carbon, and 3 additional Power Heads for added H2O flow. I use Ro/DI H20. I have had my purple Tang for only about 3 weeks and he seems perfectly healthy (eats well, etc.), but just a few days ago I noticed what looked to be the beginning of HLLE (white pocks above the eyes and along the lateral line). Now, only a few days later, it seems to be getting worse. <This species is particularly susceptible to this environmental/nutritional disease/complaint> The strange thing is that I have always kept plenty of Green, Red, and Brown Seaweed Selects in the tank, and I feed Formula Two and MYSIS soaked in garlic, Selcon, and Zoe and he (it) eats it all. I have done this long before I introduced the purple Tang to the tank. The tank is grounded and water chemistry checks out great (Alk., PH, Ammon., Nit. and Nit.). I am absolutely out of ideas. I have heard that constant use of carbon can cause this, but the owner of my local fish shop (Bruce from Sandy's Pet Store in Louisville, KY, I think you know him) says that that has never been proven and that he also runs carbon in all of his tanks. <Agreed... I encourage folks to switch carbon out only once a month in general, it gets "exhausted" (saturated) within minutes to hours in most cases...> I had to almost totally break down the tank just days before I noticed this to catch a few trouble makers, something that I am sure stressed him out. Could stress suddenly bring on HLLE? <Might be a contributing cause...> As far as stopping it, I already use all of the suggested Vits. and foods. I have heard that Iodine also might help with HLLE, but I already add it, along w/ Str., Calc, and CoralVite to the tank. Should I try soaking the MYSIS in that as well? I am not sure what else to do, as I believed that what I was doing was the proper thing up until just a few days ago. Any feedback at all would be much appreciated. Thanks, Scott <Please read over the following area, FAQs on our site: http://wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm There are many suspected factors, co-factors to "bringing on" HLLE... your "cure" in this setting is likely a combination of improved nutrition (simple addition of vitamins and iodide to the foods directly, for fifteen minutes or so ahead of feeding, weekly administration to the tank/water) and water quality (growing macro-algae in the main tank, better in a sump, possibly a refugium, maybe incorporating live rock, mud... This condition can take a while to reverse (weeks, months), but can be done. Please peruse our site (WetWebMedia.com) re "Algal Filtration", "Environmental", "Nutritional Diseases"... as the links lead you. You display diligence, caring... show intelligence, compassion here. You will be successful. Bob Fenner> Purple tang sick? Dear Anthony, Things have been going rather well on my conversion. My computer is in its death throes however and this is why I haven't updated you lately. <no worries... we all keep busy <wink>> (I will send a detailed description soon) I saw you're in Pittsburgh. Do you live here year round? I live less then 30 min.s down town so perhaps you frequent the same LFS's. <yes... also about 30 minutes from the 'burg. Perhaps we can get you to visit PMASI meeting... always great speakers, Bob Fenner, Eric Borneman and Ron Shimek are annual... Paletta is also local. Our next meeting is this coming Saturday at the Palace Inn Monroeville at 6pm. We go out for food and drinks afterwards. A wonderful time to be had. Check us out at www.pmas.org > Alright... here is the current issue. I have a new healthy purple tang, three inches, fat and eating well. He seems to have developed very faint hardly there markings around one of his eyes. Slightly raised a little paler then the rest of him. I treated the 50 gallon tank with enough Melafix for 40 gallons of water tonight in a small fit of panic .... In retrospect I now worry that I may have killed my live rock. <I doubt that it had much of an impact on the rock or the parasites. Although I do like the product for some applications> I only treated it once with 4 teaspoons. Tomorrow it recommends I redose. I wont do so unless you get back to me about the status of my (very very hopefully still) live rock. I do not have a quarantine tank, and perhaps the tang isn't even ill.. it is very subtle. Thank you Anthony my friend. Brian <you could purchase a small QT tank (sponge filter, ten gall, heater, glass cover and not much else) for the price of just five or six bottles of medication. However the tank would serve you better and for years. Do get a QT setup ASAP. Otherwise, it is a roulette game with living creatures every time a new fish or coral is added. Don't be a stranger... stop by at the marine society meeting and we'll chat it up! kindly, Anthony> Sick Purple Tang I have a purple tang that has developed, for lack of a better description, white snail like trails around his face and eyes. Nobody else in the tank has it and I have been ich free for over a year (it doesn't look ich ish to start with). His appetite is good, he is active and doesn't seem to be suffering in any way (at least so far). Can you tell me what this might be. Bob <This is a good description of the "beginnings" of a condition called HLLE, Head and Lateral Line Erosion... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm Purple Tangs are one of the more susceptible species... you will want to augment this fish's diet, improve water quality... perhaps with the growth of live macro-algae. Bob Fenner> Re: tang Thanks for the reply. My water quality is very good. I have 125 lbs of live rock and add calcium, iodine, nag, Strontium and a few others every week. I do not however feed other than prime reef, marine food and clams and shrimp. Every time I try to add frozen veggie type products no one eats. Can you make some suggestions for food. Also let me be blonde for a moment. Live micro algae? <Please go to WetWebMedia.com and peruse the Marine Index and/or use the Search tool there to read about HLLE, Macro-Algae, Marine Foods/Feeding/Nutrition... The site is logically arranged with many links between related matters, tens of thousands of FAQs files... Bob Fenner> Problem with purple tang Dear Bob, I read many of your articles, q/a and they are very helpful. <Ah, good to read> I started a 90g saltwater tank last November. Equipped with a 20g sump, wet/dry trickle filter, 120V heater. Cycled the tank with 100 lb live rock. Added 3 damsels after the tank cycled with snails and hermit crabs. Added three more damsels and a cleaner shrimp the week after. Acclimated and added a Sailfin and Purple tank together about 10 days ago. Both tangs are doing fine, show no aggression towards each other. Last night I noticed a tiny white dot on the purple tang's body, where the right pectoral fin meets the body. This morning, notice a faint and fine white line on its body, starting from the white dot, parallel to the gill on the body not on the gill. It is not distinctive or separate spot but a line. It is difficult to tell if the Sailfin has similar problem due to its color. I immediately tested the water. Everything is fine - zero ammonia, nitrite; under 10 ppm nitrate, 1.022 sg, temperature 78F. I've been doing weekly 5g water change. I observe the purple tang for a period of time. It is not rubbing on rock or substrate. However, it seems jumpy and shy, especially during feeding. <This is natural, normal for your new fish, system> It used to chase after food. It still does but as soon as it gets something, it ducks down and hides between rock until it sees another flake near. I have been feeding them combination of formula two, prime reef, brine shrimp and algae green (Nori) twice daily. Every other day, I soak the flake with a few drops of Selcon. Not sure if it has ich. I have a 10g quarantine tank stand by and wonder if I should give him a FW bath and treat it with copper. The first challenge is getting it out without dismantle the live rock structure. Any idea how I can do this without putting more stress to the animal? Secondly, is it bacteria infection or ich that I am dealing with? <Well-stated. I would just wait, observe at this point> I watch my fish every day and they have been my joy and happiness. In case this is ich, I hope I could do something soon enough before an outbreak. Please advise. Many thanks, Carmen <You are a keen observer, and a caring keeper... Do just keep doing what you're doing. If you run new fishes through dips, quarantine, there is little likelihood that you are experiencing a parasitic disease here... more like the fishes just "settling in". Bob Fenner> Purple Tang Bob, <Ola! Anthony Calfo here for Bob who just ran out the door chasing a flock of pigeons that landed in the front yard, screaming "Yee-ha, we're going to be eatin' good tonight!"> Love your website. I had lost quite a bit of fish starting out <wish we had talked to you first> and then had a bout with an Ich infestation. It got to the point I was getting discouraged about having started a marine system, <good advice from the start to have a quarantine tank almost certainly would have prevented this> but I was determined. <good to hear it!> My only survivors we two green Chromis and later moved them back into the main tank after leaving it fallow. <O-tay> In my 50 gallon tank I added 3 more Chromis, a 1 1/2 inch maroon clown, 2 cleaner shrimp (both have molted once), 2 small neon gobies, a sand shifting starfish, two red foot moon snails and about two weeks ago added a 3 1/2 inch flame angel and 4 inch purple tang. The flame and the tang went at it for the first couple of days and settled down. Not problems between them. <indeed... establishing the pecking order> My problem is that the tang started to hover and corner the small maroon, and nothing more, more of a face-off. About a week later I saw my maroon hiding in the live rock and would could out and then retreat. He had a "u" shaped bit on his dorsal fin and his side fins showed some significant damage. So I moved the maroon into a floating breeder to protect him and let him heal in the main tank without having to stress him by moving him. <cool> Would the purple tang be aggressive towards a small maroon? <easily and likely. Zebrasoma tang species are feisty> Even if the clown was in the tank first? <has absolutely nothing to do with the price of tea in China> I just recently added two Firefish and the next day I could not find them or see them. <ouch...too peaceful/passive for the tank. Unlikely to work out long-term if they are still alive. They are too gentle and will be out competed for food at the very least. Please extract them> Later that night the tang was trashing and eating what was a Firefish. Common? <you have an aggressive tang...and yes it is common. The maroon clown and Flame angel are also feisty as a rule and not a bad mix at all in a big enough tank> I am now afraid to release my maroon back or buy new fish. <that particular maroon maybe.... but fish in general no. You simply have an active community tank. Fast and feisty is on the menu... and I don't mean Rosie Perez. Pick fish that are aggressive feeders like some wrasses, Pseudochromis, some Hawkfish, etc.> I don't plan or adding any more fish other than a Firefish or Banggai cardinal and that's it for stocking my tank. <Aiieee! Lambs to the slaughter even without the tang. Maroons are nasty and could easily target the above species. You need to decide if you want an ultra peaceful tank (shy fish) or an active community tank> Would keeping any last minute additions in the breeder so the tang gets accustomed to them? <more harm (stress) than good. After getting burned (Ich), you are running all fish through a two to four week quarantine, right buddy?> Any suggestions? Would appreciate it. <yep...don't bet on the Patriots to win> Javier <kindly, Anthony> Re: problem with purple tang Hello Anthony, <Steven Pro this morning.> I finally moved my purple tang to a quarantine tank today as the Sailfin is really suffering. The Sailfins "sail" is torn! In the effort of catching the purple tang I have to remove most of the live rock. I am lucky that I don't have any coral yet. I am afraid that I may have to give up one of them. I am planning is to leave the Sailfin in the main tank and let it heal. Then, I'll put the purple tank back in with a partition for another couple of weeks. With the live rock topology changed hopefully the purple tang will not be as aggressive. I'll give it one more chance. Do you think it worth a try before considering giving it up? <Very slim chance the two will coexist peacefully in this size tank.> Any other way I could keep both? <You could get another tank for one each or one much larger tank, 180 or bigger.> Also, I saw a mandarin goby at the LFS and almost brought it home by impulse. Before I make another mistake, I would like to do more research before doing so. <Good idea.> Again, my intention is to get a flame angel and a long nose Hawkfish eventually. Will the Mandarin fit in? I understand that it may have feeding problem. <Not "may", it WILL have a feeding problem. They only eat live food.> I have a 90g tank, 100 lb live rock with good quality of color coralline algae on it. The existing live stock is 4 yellow tail damsels, a 3-stripe damsels, a Sailfin, a purple tang (hopefully), cleaner shrimp, snails and crabs. Will these little guys do well together if I add a Mandarin? <Sorry, but no. Your tank is too small and filled with aggressive feeders to allow for an ample supply of live food.> Thank you, Carmen <Glad to be of assistance. -Steven Pro> Purple Tang Good evening to you, <and kindly to you in return> A follow-up on a past question. <OK> I have a recently introduced Purple tang in my 120 gal reef tank. <after a 4 week quarantine I hope... as with all fish but particularly for these Ich prone surgeonfish> Water parameters are PH 8.23, Ammonia <0.1, Nitrate and Nitrite are 0, temp. 25.0 centigrade, salinity 1.025. I had noticed six/seven white dots/marks on one fin of this Purple tang, Zebrasoma xanthurum, and wrote to you with concerns of parasitic infection. I'm not out of the woods yet, but the marks have been static (and perhaps even faded a little) in the past week and at this point, I am tending to feel they are just white marks. <slow healing wounds from a/the previous infection perhaps but should regain color... else suspect nutritional deficiency or some other cause> I did look as closely as possible at him at him in the LFS but they don't have bright lights and I was not able to really examine him thoroughly. I have a pair of 150w metal halides, which makes a visual far more fruitful. I also note that this fish looks underfed/skinny (lumpy gut area) with some signs of HLLD. I would tend to say he is just skinny, but wanted your suggestion as to what this might be. <indeed... such tangs need very many small feedings/grazing opportunities daily to thrive and maintain weight. Do offer Nori (seaweed) and turf algae on live rock whenever possible. Spirulina in prepared foods, etc. There is a lot of good content in our archives here at WWM if you care to learn more about nutrition and more> He is eating aggressively and very well (live rock, algae, Mysis, brine, prawn....) <the brine is a complete waste of time/money and is a contributing factor in this fishes poor weight if it makes up even 20% of his diet. The Mysis and prawn are good but do mostly offer greenstuffs for this herbivore> and I also note that his fins heal in a day or so (if they get slightly damaged from time-to-time in scuffles with my Kole tang). He is looking much better than when I first put him in with better colour and a fatter stomach! I am also pleased to tell you that I am about to buy a quarantine tank... <excellent! One of the very best investments in a marine aquarium.> Many thanks, JP <kindly, Anthony> Purple Tang Hi I have a question about a purple tang I purchased about 2 months ago. The fish is in my 150 gallon fish only tank with a maroon clown and a small harlequin tusk wrasse. The tang is active and eats anything but is experiencing fin decaying along with head/lateral line problems. I have been adding Zoe to its food and Fish Solution (eco-systems) to the tank. The fins are showing some signs of regeneration but the head and Lateral Line are not improving. I feed the fish dried seaweed (Sea Veggies/Seaweed Selects) everyday and it devours the Mysis, Clams, and Squid meant for its tank mates. The owner of the store where I purchased the fish told me that purple tangs (actually all tangs except yellow) have a problem when there is too much protein in their diet. He said they do better on an almost exclusively vegetable diet. <I would say all Tangs need a diet consisting primarily of vegetable matter of marine origin (Yellows included).> I had never heard this before and was actually happy that this fish took all sorts of foods. Does this information sound accurate and could this be the source of my problem. <HLLE is linked primarily to diet, but also other husbandry issues such as water quality. You can read more here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm> Thank you, A.J. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Purple tang Hello- I was wondering if would answer a couple of questions. I have a purple tang who seems to be doing fine. I feed him seaweed select twice a day < a fine food but do consider sushi Nori (the same thing) from an Asian grocery store in your area... it is dramatically less expensive> along with frozen kelp, formula two, algae plus & Spirulina. I have noticed the purple tends to bump when he swims . I don't mean he bumps into objects but when he swims - he bumps or jerks forward (like an old car). <very unusual and not symptomatic of a disease necessarily> I have also read about tangs looking like they have velvet on them. Also. my tang looks fine when you look at him close but if he turns & you view him at a certain angle- For a second he does appear to have a velvet look to him but you have to look at him from the right angle and of course he is constantly moving so I cant pinpoint what it is? What do you think? <if the velvet symptom was evidence of a parasitic infection you would also see rapid gilling, favored gilling (one gill closed) and/or scratching off rocks> I also I have a piece of LR is developing a brownish/orangish color to it in 2 different spots in very small areas(1/2 inch by 1/2 inch)- these areas are surrounded by coralline algae but the coralline never covers it - and after three months it seems like these brownish/orangish areas are getting a little larger but very slowly. They do seem to receded in the rock or at least below the level at which my coralline algae sits. What do you think it is and should I be concerned? <hard to say without an image, may be a nuisance algae. Does your skimmer produce skimmate daily?> One last question, I have read about so many people experimenting with a purple tang and a yellow tang in the same setup. I realize the Zebrasomas have anal spikes that they use for protection. I recently witnessed a tank with a purple and yellow in the same system (maybe 75 gal) Everything seemed peaceful (no chasing or biting) <even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes as they say> but occasionally backing up into each other. Is this type of aggression you would expect to have with such a mixed or would they chase each and attack with their mouths? <when there are so many other beautiful fishes to have, why subject them to undue and unnecessary stress? My strong advice would be not attempt to mix the two species> -Thanks for your time- Ronald <best regards, Anthony Calfo>
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