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FAQs on Tapwater Filtration: Reverse Osmosis, Deionized, Distilled
Water System Selection
Related FAQs: RO/DI & Distilled Water 1,
RO/DI & Distilled Water 2, RO/DI &
Distilled Water 3, RO/DI & Distilled Water
4, RO/DI & Distilled Water 5,
RO/DI & Distilled Water 6, RO/DI &
Distilled Water 7, Rationale,
For Commercial/Large Output, RO Water
Storage, RO Water Treatment,
Maintenance/Repair, Deionizing Source
Water Filtration, Kati-Ani DI Units,
Kold-Steril Units, Water Make-up,
Nitrates, Related Articles:
Water Purification Using Reverse Osmosis,
Reverse Osmosis, A Multipurpose Tool By Mark E. Evans,
Water Changes, Water Quality, Synthetic
or Natural Seawater, Nitrates, |
We use a "cheapy" warehouse store unit... and change the carbon
pre-filters often (every couple of thousand gallons)... the RO
membranes about every ten pre-filter changes... Bob Fenner |
RO/DI units 05/23/09
Hello,
<Howdy>
How well do you think a Hague WaterMax would purify my tap water?
<Mmm, hard for me to make out what these folks are selling:
http://www.haguewaterne.com/residential.html
What unit is actually a/the "WaterMax?">
I live in AK and so my choices are limited. I found a person willing to
sell me their "hardly used" unit for $125 but have no idea if this is a
deal.
<Me neither... but there are okay new RO units for sale at large
hardware stores for about this much... Depending on what your source
water is like and what you're trying to accomplish with RO/DI... I'd
just go with one of these>
I appreciate your input. In my opinion, you maintain the best saltwater
aquarium site on the web.
Elizabeth
<Send along a/the spec.s on the unit in question please. Bob Fenner>
GPD and reverse osmosis units, sel. 2/13/09
Hi I am
about to purchase a reverse osmosis unit. I have tried to find
information online and through books on what gallons per day with RO
units means.
<Uh, how many gallons per day the unit will produce.>
Do you have any suggestions on a RO unit, I think I will choose between
the Kent marine Hi-S maximum or the Seachem Pinnacle plus. I have a 155
gal.
reef tank with a phosphate and silicate problem due to the town
water I have.
<Either will work fine, go for the price here. Both are
RO/DI units, running the water through an RO membrane first, then
through a deionization filter...both will give you great water. Either
will also use the same standard 10" replacement filters.>
Thank you
so much !
<Welcome, Scott V.> Re: GPD and reverse
osmosis units 2/15/09
I am sorry I meant to ask about the
GPD thing with RO units was one of the units will produce 200 GPD, one
100 GPD, one 60 GPD, one 35 GPD, why would you need that many gallons in
a day?
<Oh, I see. Unless you have a large system there is no need
for anything larger than the 35 or 60....the big disadvantage to the
larger units are the RO membranes. The membranes do require replacement
ever few years and
the larger units either require much more
expensive replacements or multiple membranes.>
I do a 25 percent
water change every two weeks and have to top off the water every two to
three days with maybe three gallons. That is what I did not understand
about the units, out of those GPD units what one would you suggest the
last three are about the same price and the first one is about 100
dollars more, I do like to buy about the best products I can?
<I
personally own a 100 GPD unit and would gladly use just the 35, it
really is plenty.>
Thank you.
<Welcome, Scott V.>
To RODI or to RO? 2/11/09
Hey gang,
<Hello
Alex. Minh at your service.>
I find myself in a small rut with my
saltwater reef tank lately. Everything i have had has done great up till
recently (softies, LPS, fish, inverts).
Long story short i bought a
clam and it died, so i said to myself...never again! Had my water tested
and of only thing that was out of sync were phosphates and Alk both were
high phos 1ppm Alk 17 i believe...I will take full blame for the Alk, i
miscalculated a dosing of Kent Nano Reef A and B...After talking it over
with a couple LFS and some of my fellow reef buddies, it was strongly
recommended that i start using RO water, i currently use tap water.
<I agree with the advice you were given.>
So anyways I am now faced
with the dilemma of should i buy my own RODI system or should i just get
the RO water locally. I would use it for my 29G...I do 5G water changes
once a week but if i bought locally i would do 5G water changes every
other week. If i bought my own i would continue doing the same routine
only with the RODI water. I know it can be pricey replacing all the
cartridges and such so im wondering if i were to buy one and i don't use
it that often would it last longer (efficiency wise)?
<There are
many choices for RO/DI units with varying costs so I will leave the
decision on cost effectiveness up to you. One thing that owning a RO/DI
unit affords is flexibility and convenience. If time is important to you
and you intend to keep your tank for a long time, it could be a
worthwhile investment in the long run. Regarding efficiency and filter
replacement, if you invest in a good quality unit to begin with,
maintenance cost should not be much. For example, the two pre-filters
need to be replaced every 6 months, the DI filters need to be replaced
yearly and the membrane should last for three to five years with proper
use. If you keep up with the filter replacement schedule, limit TDS
creep, which happens when the unit is turned on and off often, and
install/use a flush valve then you should be able to maximize the life
and efficiency of your unit.
For more information, review these
sites:
-http://www.melevsreef.com/why_rodi.html
-http://www.spectrapure.com/faq_p0.htm.>
Your thoughts and input are
greatly appreciated!
-Alex
<You're welcome. Cheers, Minh Huynh.>
Bad Water! Help! – 02/06/09
Hello Everyone!
<<Hello,
er…you…>>
I come to you in a state of confusion...surely you all can
help. :-)
<<Will certainly give it a try>>
I moved a year ago, it
was just a five minute drive down a mountain from where I previously
lived but the water parameters are amazingly different.
<<Ah
yes…sometimes even within a few hundred yards>>
I moved a 125 gallon
reef tank to the new house and within a 4-5 month span many of my Zoas
and other similar polyps had begun to die...massive 250 polyp colonies.
<<Uh-oh>>
A few of my prized fish got ich...I have never had an
outbreak before. Slowly, some of my fish died.
<<Environmental
stresses (e.g. – water quality issues)>>
I took my water to be tested
and found high phosphates. Shocked I began to do research and found this
is quite common.
<<Among other pollutants, yes>>
I read articles
about why and where it comes from along with the harmful affects to
corals and inverts.
<<All life needs “some” Phosphate…but excessive
levels/amounts can be damaging, yes>>
I went to my local fish store
and they suggested a Kent Marine 2 stage unit for $300. I came home
feeling ripped off so I took it back
<<Not to kick the legs out from
under your LFS…but very good RO/DI units can be had for less (too bad
the trade won’t recognize this and set prices accordingly…if only to
stay in the game)>>
and decided my only choice was to throw in the
towel and downsize back to my little 30 gallon which can be handled with
gallons of spring water.
<<Mmm…I see>>
I began feeling like I was
giving up when I looked at the hippo tang I saved from that same fish
store at about a half inch who is now a huge (haha) 4 inches :-).
<<A
marginal species for the 125 in my opinion…has no business in a 30g tank
at all>>
I would hate to give up on him now he is a beauty.
<<Then
get/go back to a bigger tank my friend>>
So, I read your articles.
<<Ah!>>
I am looking for a 4 to 5 stage (very high phosphates and
probable chlorine) with one or two deionizers.
<<One
deionization/exchange resin cartridge is plenty… Two cartridges won’t
make the water any more pure than one will (assuming a “mixed-bed” resin
is used), it simply means you won’t need to replace the cartridges as
often…but when you do it will be at twice the cost, not to mention the
higher initial cost for the system. Instead, invest your money in a unit
with two carbon block prefilters with successively smaller micron
ratings (e.g. – 5-micron for the first and 1-micron for the second), and
maybe even a mechanical (spun poly-fiber) filter before these>>
I
tried discussing these options with my LFS and they laughed.
<<Deplorable>>
(Real intelligent group of people).
<<I have
different adjectives in mind>>
I was hoping you might be able to
suggest a well rated unit without the bias of commissioned employees.
<<What…you mean there’s nothing in this for me? [grin]>>
I am not
familiar with these units nor do I have a complex system. I am looking
for something that might attach to the kitchen faucet when I begin
preparation of my water.
<<Most any of the water filtration units
will work with/attach to a kitchen sink, though you may have to request
that option. Take a look at the five-stage unit here for a mere $135
(second one down on the page:
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_di_systems.htm). I and other members of
my local marine club have dealt with “The Filter Guys” on several
occasions and can recommend them highly. Be sure to contact them and
discuss your needs (make sure you get a faucet adapter) and they will
tailor a unit for you>>
Thanks for all your help again.
<<Happy to
share… EricR>>
Source water for SW sys., switching an African Cichlid set up to marine
– 10/10/08
Hi all,
<Marc>
I have a 75 gallon tank,
with 80 lbs of live rock, a Remora Pro protein skimmer, an Emperor 400
that I just run filter pads with no charcoal, two Hydor stage 4 power
filters, and a stage 3. For livestock I have a Yellow Tank, three Green
Chromis, Lawnmower Blenny, Firefish, Chalk Bass, Six Line Wrasse,
Cleaner Shrimp and assorted snails and crabs.
My question is about
water changes. I do about a 15% water change every Friday. I test my
water, add the necessary supplements, usually calcium and a dKH buffer.
I use tap water and mix in Reef Crystals about 15 minutes before i add
the water. I know it's not ideal,
<Mmm, we'd have to discuss, agree
on what is "ideal"... IF your system is doing what you want it to do...
the livestock fine... this would be ideal to/for me>
but it's not
practical for me to treat the water earlier because of a small living
space, and my girlfriend not being as enthusiastic as i am, doesn't want
two buckets of water kicking around the apartment. And since i only have
one day off, I like to get tank done first thing in the morning, and the
pet store isn't open early enough for me to buy r/o water.
<I use RO
for drinking, cooking... tap/mains water for my own tanks>
Now that
I'm done making excuses, here's my question. Would I be better of doing
a water change every other week? It doesn't seem like my mushrooms open
up all the way until a couple days after the water change every week. I
was wondering, if would be less stressful for the tank, to only do the
water change every other week.
<Worth trying out>
Thanks, Marc
P.S. I also have a 75 gallon African Cichlid tank. I was thinking about
switching it over to a saltwater tank. My question is, I have about 100
lbs. of lace rock in there, and about 80 lbs. of live freshwater cichlid
sand. Could I use the rock and sand for a saltwater tank?
<Mmm, some
"lace rock" has a good deal of phosphate (can be tested for in a few
ways)... and would need to know what the make-up (even just Brand, name
of product) of this sand... but it can likely be added, blended with
something a bit more soluble, otherwise useful. Bob Fenner>
Reverse Osmosis Filters…Cheaper Than Realized? – 08/07/08
Unfortunately, I did not research prior to buying a used Kent Marine
24 gallon per day unit for the price of $125.
<<Mmm, yes…a bit of
looking around could have found you a “new” 75gpd RO/DI unit for
about $10 more>>
I need to replace the membrane, and all three
filters of this unit.
<<Easy enough to do…these units are all
pretty much “standard” and the membranes/other components are easily
interchangeable>>
I can upgrade the unit to produce 50 gallons
per day, but the cost will be $183 to do this. Add this to the $125
cost of the filter, and I cannot help but wonder if I should just
purchase a new SpectraPure reverse osmosis filter that will produce
100 gallons per day, at $199 plus shipping.
<<SpectraPure is a
good product (is what I have), but you can use your current housings
and upgrade your membrane and flow restrictor here
(http://www.thefilterguys.biz/ro_membranes.htm) for a mere $56…plus
a little more to replace the other components>>
Unfortunately, I
already spent $125 for the unit, so an additional $183 to replace
the filters and upgrade the capacity to (still) only 50 gallons per
day will mean I am spending almost $300 for the unit!
<<Do look
in to the link I have provided>>
I guess my question is: is the
Kent Marine filter such a superior product that it warrants such a
price ($260 new) for a filter that only produces 24 gallon per day?
<<This is for an RO/DI unit? Hardly… Most of these units and
components are made by a few manufacturers (e.g. – DOW) and then
distributed and remarketed/relabeled for selling by the different
vendors. Have a look around on line at the independent vendors (even
those not from the hobby interest)…this technology is not/should not
be that expensive to utilize>>
Regards,
Jeff Castaldo
<<And
to you. Eric Russell>>
Re: Reverse Osmosis Filters…Cheaper Than Realized? - 08/08/08
Thanks so much for your quick reply.
<<Quite welcome>>
I went
there, and these guys are even cheaper than waterfiltersonline.com!
<<Indeed… TheFilterGuys.biz is a great place to get your RO/DI
systems and replacement components. I go to them for my own
needs…service is excellent>>
I am new to your website, but I can
see it right now that I am going to enjoy it immensely.
<<Ah,
welcome then>>
Regards,
Jeff
<<Cheers, EricR>> |
Reverse Osmosis…Is This A Good System? – 04/07/08
Good evening
Sir,
<Many Ladies here as well…but EricR here with you this
afternoon>>
I've had an FO tank for over 4 years now, doing fairly
well. Would to move to FOWLR and finally reef eventually.
<<Seems to
be a popular progression for many>>
Problem is that I live in India,
and have absolutely no help on proper practices and access to equipment.
<<Mmm, well…the Internet can likely help with both>>
I understand
that RO is vital for a healthy reef and since I can't purchase that
around here, was wondering if something like this could be used instead?
http://www.kent.co.in/excel.htm
<<It could be, yes…>>
Would really
appreciate any help that you could offer.
<<I’m not sure about
shipping internationally, but I think it would be worth your time to
have a look here (http://www.thefilterguys.biz/index.htm). Send them an
email and explain your situation…if they can/will ship to you, I’m sure
they will design a system to fit your needs at a fair price. Oh…and do
spend some time reading/researching the abundance of data on our site re
FOWLR and REEF systems. Use the Google search box at the bottom of the
homepage to perform keyword searches for topics of interest>>
Loved
CMA.
<<Me too!>>
Thank you, Adriel Rebello
<<Happy to share.
Eric Russell>>
Tap Water Parameters…Is a Filter Necessary - 03/26/08
Sorry to
bother you all again, Crew.
<<No worries>>
I have been reading
that I may not need an RO/DI unit and may be able to use my tap water by
letting sit and buffering for a day or two.
<<Depends much on how it
will be used/what type of system you have (e.g. – reef/FOWLR/FO). Some
folks can/do get away with not pre-filtering their water. But there is
so much that could be in your water that you don’t/won’t know about
(fertilizers, pesticides, etc.) that for me, the investment in an RO/DI
filter for marine systems for sure, is money well spent. Even the
“known” issues probably fluctuate in their levels so obtaining an
analysis doesn’t likely give a true picture of water quality. Heck, when
I lived in England for a time I discovered the town where I lived would
periodically flush something through the system to kill the freshwater
shrimp living within. Since I was not pre-filtering my water back then
you can imagine the effect it had on my reef tank (twice!), before I
discovered what was happening and began filtering my water as a result>>
Here is a list of my local water parameters. Do you think I am a good
candidate for an RO/DI unit, or can I just use my tap water?
pH =
7.5
Alkalinity = 35 ppm
Hardness = 100 ppm
Conductivity = 270
umhos
Chlorides = 50 ppm
Chlorine = 2.5 ppm
Ammonia = 0.08 ppm
Iron = 0.01 ppm
Manganese = 0.02 ppm
Phosphate = 0.84 ppm
Sodium = 30 ppm
Copper = 0.09 ppm
Fluoride = 0.25 ppm
Lead =
5.8 ppb
Nitrate = 0.48 ppm
Nitrite = 1.0 ppm
<<The
presence/levels of Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate cause me concern…I think the
RO/DI unit will be a worthwhile investment regardless of the type
system>>
Thanks again for your help
Matthew Diethorn
<<Quite
welcome. EricR>>
RO/DI Systems 3/25/08
Good morning crew!!!
<Hello Mathew>
I
am a bit confused about which water to use. I have a 55 gallon tank and
currently buy RO water from my LFS. I do not want to do this anymore
because it is a hassle, so I am looking to purchase an RO, DI, or RO/DI
water system for my home. I am a bit confused about all of the
differences in them. I do not really want any waste water. I believe I
have read that DI units do not produce any waste water but the chemicals
can be hard to deal with when recharging or replacing. Does an RO/DI
unit produce waste?
<Yes.>
What do you recommend as the best
option for me?
<A DI filter alone is not going to give you pure
water. Depending on the resins used, they will only remove selected
contaminants. Is best to go with an RO or RO/DI system.
If waste
water is a major concern, Spectra Pure produces an ultra high efficiency
model with a waste ratio of 1/1 which is pretty good considering most
units will have a 80% or more waste ratio. Look here for specifications
on this unit.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~reverse-osmosis-deionization_spectrapure_rodi.html
Also read here and related FAQ's/articles.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/h2opurifiers.htm Thanks for your help
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Matthew Diethorn
Re: RO/DI Systems 3/26/08
Thanks for getting back to me so fast.
<You're welcome.>
I will deal with the waste. I only have a 55
gallon, so I do not need too much for water changes anyway. My last
question is....are all of these systems pretty much the same or are some
a lot better than others?
<I think some are better than others as far
as efficiency and quality of the membrane.>
Money is a slight issue.
I don't want to spend too much. I found this on Ebay and it looks pretty
good. What do you think?
http://www.abundantflowwater.com/html/aquarium_filters.html
<Not bad
for the price. I'd go for it. A Coralife 3 stage unit generally sells
for $120.00 at most etailers, but no DI filtering.>
Thanks for your
help again.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Matthew Diethorn
Quest For The Infallible Purifier -03/17/08
Hello, I've been
struggling with Diatoms for months now. My tank is 2 & 1/2 years
old. I know that Diatoms feed on silicates so I couldn't figure out
why I have clouds of them when the only water I've ever put in the
tank is Deionized.
<Clouds of diatoms? Really?>
So I decided
to increase the size and frequency of my water changes thinking that
organics and maybe nutrients had built up over the years. This only
seemed to compound the problem. So I tested the Deionized water for
silicates and sure enough the Seachem test revealed a level of 4
mg/l. My Tap water Purifier's life isn't even half over. So do you
know of a Deionizer that will perform better than the one I've been
using? Maybe one that will thoroughly remove silicates up to 75% of
the Ion-exchange resin's life? I don't understand why these resins
stop removing silicates so soon. Do you?
<I'm not sure what
brand/type of unit you're currently using, but most the RO/DI units
sold in the aquarium business remove just about everything (all
silicates, etc.). Spectrapure is one such good brand (in my
opinion).>
Thank you, love the site,
Greg
<De nada,
Sara M.> Re: Quest For
The Infallible Purifier 03/18/08
Yes, clouds, but Your being
surprised has got me thinking that maybe they aren't diatoms. Is it
possible to have the clouds and not have them on the rock and
panels?
<I honestly don't know what's "possible." But I've never
heard diatoms described this way.>
Do they first cover everything
else before they cloud the water?
<They don't usually cloud the
water as much as they cover surfaces (rocks, glass, etc.). You might
have a phytoplankton bloom in your water column. In which case,
ironically, I would suggest the use of a diatom filter (or diatom
powder used in an suitable canister filter).>
They certainly look
like the diatom "dust" that I've read about in terms of color and
particle size.
<Diatom powder is substantially different from
the live diatoms than grow in our aquariums.>
I guess the best
thing to do is send a sample to a lab. Do you recommend this? What
would you do?
<If you want to, go ahead. It's always helpful to
learn. Though, it might be more fun and educational to get yourself
a good microscope (always a good investment for a reef aquarist) and
try to see it for yourself. :-)>
Thanks
<Best,
Sara M.> |
R/O vs. Distilled 03/04/2008
Hi,
<<Hello, Andrew today>>
Recently I sent an employee to a different aquarium to get water for our
reef tank. The owner was very negative about R/O water (i.e., a poor
attempt to duplicate natural water, etc). He said that distilled water
was far superior.
<<I personally don't actually think there is any
noticeable difference between the two types of water besides cost.
Distilled water usually costs more to self produce than RO or RO/DI.
Using in the marine aquarium, well, you wont really notice any
difference at all. I certainly would not state that distilled is
"Superior" to RO or RO/DI>>
Previously, in a pinch, we have used our
tap water which is hooked to a distiller. However, I have never read
anything about distilled water being superior. What are your thoughts?
<<As above. Mainly its down to cost. Most people realise this over time
and go and purchase their own RO unit>>
Thank you, Kathye
<<Thanks for the questions. A Nixon>>
Water Treatment 2/22/08
Hello Crew;
<Hi John>
I am perhaps
at a point where I can no longer deny that I will have to get some type
of water purifier to generate sufficiently pure salt water for my 180
reef tank. For the past year I have been using store bought RO, in the
hopes that once my Chaetomorpha is sufficiently established in my
refugium, I'll be able to just use de-chlorinated, Lake Ontario, tap
water (which actually tests below the detection limits for NO3, PO4, &
SIO2).
Trouble is, while my Chaeto is growing okay, it is not yet
sufficient to reduce the nuisance algae in the display. Meanwhile, the
use of store bought water is getting pricey.
<Amen.>
In looking at
the options, I find the profligate waste of RO and RO/DI to be
unconscionable (I live in an area where I have to pay for my water use,
and also, in a northern climate, using the waste water to water the lawn
would only work half the year!).
<Could use for an ice palace:)>
So, I am leaning towards a DI system. The trouble with these seems to be
that, without an RO as a "pre-filter", the resins don't last. Then I
thought that a household water-softener would have all kinds of
capacity, but it produces sodium-rich water while leaving the phosphate,
nitrate, and silicate alone, and in fact removes the calcium and
magnesium which we probably might want to keep anyway. In short, it
removes the wrong type of ions.
Now I'm thinking; "Hey, why not just
use an anion column to remove the negatively charged ions, leaving the
positively charged ions, such as calcium, in the water?". I'm wondering
if the reason DI resins are short lived is because they quickly become
saturated with Ca+? So, if we don't bother trying to remove the calcium,
the resin may last a whole lot longer.
<There are a few types of
anion resins and selecting the right one for what you want to do is
important. The basic general purpose anion is basically a de-alkalizing
resin, wouldn't want to use that. The anion tannin resin is for removal
of color, organics and tannins. The nitrate removal anion resin is a
relatively new technology and is one of the first resins that favor
nitrate removal over sulphates and other ions in the water. Then we have
the anion silica resin which removes what it says. The ProSelect Company
does manufacture all of the above resins, and if you would like more
info on their products, you can contact them at info@swtwater.com.>
To this end, I thought a "cheapy" system could be built just using an AP
"Tap Water Filter" (or similar product) with a household carbon block
prefilter.
<If you think buying RO water is expensive, wait until you
see the bill the AP filter runs up, very inefficient vs. cost.>
Once
the original resin is "pooched", it could just be replaced with anion
exchange resin rather than mixed resin.
The only trouble I see is if
there are some cations that should still be removed; and adapting a
column meant for a cartridge, for use with, say, Kent anion resin.
Do
you know if this has been tried before? Does it seem viable?
<Do not,
but let me give you a suggestion...is a method I use. I aerate my
freshwater for 24 hours to remove any excess CO2, I then run this water
through a canister filter with one unit of Chemi-Pure for another 24
hours. The end result is crystal clear freshwater with most if not all
contaminants removed. Depending on the volume of water being changed,
you may want to add more time to the Chemi-Pure process. Been doing this
for years with excellent results, and is very cost efficient. After this
process is done, do store the Chemi-Pure back into it's container for
future use. I will do about 40 ten gallon changes before I discard the
Chemi-Pure. James (Salty Dog)>
Regards;
John T.
RO/DI Filtration Units…Size Standardization/TFC Membranes – 01/10/08
Hello everyone,
<<Greetings Ryan>>
I have burned another workday
reading WWM,
<<Ha!...don’t get caught!>>
there is a lot of great
information out there.
<<Indeed>>
I have been looking at RO/DI
units from The Filter Guys and had a couple of general questions.
<<Okay… And by the way…can speak from experience/will endorse The Filter
Guys as a good resource for RO units and supplies>>
No matter which
brand you buy the replacement filters are basically standard sizes
right, you can buy replacements from other manufactures can’t you?
<<Correct. There are larger “commercial” units/components available, but
usually unless stated otherwise, most all prefilters, carbon blocks,
membranes, et al for “residential use” are sized/standardized to fit
these units. You can even buy and use components from your local
hardware or home store>>
I want to be sure I don't buy a unit that a
couple of years from now I won’t be able to find replacement media or
membranes.
<<Shouldn’t be an issue>>
Also they (Filter Guys) have
2 different 6 stage filters- both have 3 prefilters, but one has 2 RO
and 1 DI and the other has 1 RO and 2 DI's. Is there a benefit to going
one way or the other?
<<The unit with two “membranes” is designed for
double the output. The unit with two “DI cartridges” just means you will
be able to go longer between maintenance/media changes…no real value re
“better” filtering capacity>>
Will 2 DOW Filmtec 75GPD RO's cause
less waste water or more, or is this just to increase the GPD's and
there will be the same amount of waste water.
<<Any increase in
“gallons per day” results in a corresponding increase in “waste water.”
There are ways to increase output versus the amount of waste water
(e.g.- ensuring optimum water pressure and temperature), but for most
locals, the concern for waste water from these units is overrated…in my
opinion. If the thought of this really bothers you…divert the waste
water to your garden (as I do), or even to your washing machine for use
there>>
Is one RO and DI enough or is there benefit from having 2 of
either.
<<The only benefit is if you need the additional output a
double-membrane unit can provide. The double-DI unit; if functioning
correctly, should remove everything it will on the pass through the
“first” DI cartridge>>
Also are DOW Filmtec RO's the TMC's I read
about on your site, I take it they are?
<<I think you mean “TFC” or
Thin-Film-Composite…and yes, I do believe the “Filmtec” membranes to all
be “composite” membranes. You “can” also use the CTA (Cellulose
Triacetate) membranes, but these are not resistive to bacteria, and some
consider them inferior to the TFC membranes and to have a shorter useful
lifespan>>
Also I have read this on your site but want to confirm
that I am better off installing the unit after the water softener right,
my pre-softener water hardness level is 12?
<<Mmm, yes…the RO/DI unit
should be the last stage of your aquarium-use water treatment>>
I
realize this is a very convoluted question, but I am hoping to only make
this investment once. If there is a different path I should be taking
please point me in that direction?
<<Many choices out there… You can
get as elaborate as you want/can afford, but in my opinion a four-stage
RO/DI unit will serve most any aquarist’s needs (1st stage* 5-micron
polyester filter, 2nd stage* 1-micron carbon block filter, 3rd stage*
TFC RO membrane, 4th stage* mixed-bed DI resin cartridge). An “add-on”
option you should also consider is a “membrane flush kit”…can greatly
extend the life of your membrane>>
Thanks for all your help.
Ryan
from Colorado
<<Glad to help. EricR from warm (72-degrees!) but rainy
South Carolina>>
Tap water purification -12/25/2007
Ordered an RO system the other
day from CostCo. only $140 with faucet, storage tank and I believe
output is 50 GPD. better to have control of water. thanks for the
response. I was concerned with the water bill (utilities are insane).
anyhow, our bill is about $2.50 for every 750 gallons. Therefore, cost
is not a concern and I will drain the water to lawn via our basement
sump or run to garden.
<Ah, good idea!>
Would cost less than
running a filter on tap 24/7 with average results and save cost on Brita
filters.
<yep>
Only writing back so others can see, thanks again,
love the site. mike in CT
<Thank you,
Sara M.>
Zero waste RO 11/16/07
Hi,
<Jae>
was wondering what
you guys think/know about the Watts Premier Zero Waste RO system
(Costco). was thinking of getting one. Seems like a very cost effective
idea?
<Oh yes... A winner. CostCo makes few mis-purchases... (and
backs all): http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10289835>
thanks as always
Jae Lance
<Welcome, Bob Fenner>
From Tap to RO Water 11/5/07
Hello
Our marine tank is
currently set up using treated tap water (the advice we were given!) and
we now wish to change to RO water.
<good>
We were thinking of
purchasing RO water and using it for our future water changes but I am
concerned about whether this may have any negative effects or cause any
problems.
<Hmm, I'm not sure what you might be worried about. You're
going from lower-quality water to higher quality-water. What could be
the negative effects? Just make sure that when you add the new water
(with each water change) that it's of the same/similar salinity, temp,
alkalinity, pH, etc. as your tank water. But you should do that with any
water you use for water changes (RO or tap).>
Our system is just a
couple of months old and we have 2 common clowns.
Kind Regards,
Sian
<Best,
Sara M.>
Culligan RO water for Reef Tank 11/3/07
WWM- Hello.
<Hello,
Scott V. with you.>
I have a 75 gallon tank with several fish around
90lbs of live rock and few corals. A friend of mine is an independent
"water guy" - he sets up in-home water systems and such. He has been
giving me five gallons of RO water ever 1-2 weeks to top-off my tank.
But, it is getting to be a hassle to run to his house, or having him
drop the water off at my house.
At our local Wal-Mart, Culligan has
a station that sells water for 33 cents a gallon. I would much rather
prefer to just pick up five gallons quick while shopping than have to
depend on someone else to get my water.
It states that this water
goes through a 4-stage filtration process. The source water is tap water
from local municipal water systems. The four stages of filtration are:
sediment filters, activated carbon filters, reverse osmosis, and UV
light. Is this water to be trusted...have you heard of others using
Culligan Water from Wal-Mart stores for reef tanks?
Thanks for all
you do, WWM Crew!
<I have done this and tested water from various
stations in my area to confirm what they claim (they weren’t necessarily
Culligan). Fact of the matter is that some of the water was ok and some
wasn’t. You could test the water for nitrates, carbonate hardness and
even chlorine to confirm the filtration claims. Most local fish stores
sell ro/di water that would be suitable. It would be easier and cheaper
in the long run to consider your own personal reverse osmosis filter.
Thank you for the kind words from the crew and I, Scott V.>
Re: New to saltwater- need for RO/DI filter? – 09/13/07
Hi. I've
wrote to you a few times in the past about my 75 gallon FW tank. Well,
the other day I caught my daughter "cleaning" the tank with half a
bottle of Windex. After a complete tear down I've come to the conclusion
that I would like to re-set it up as saltwater.
<Yikes. If you're
going to start over again, venturing into saltwater, please do have a
long discussion with your daughter (and other non-aquarist
kids/significant other/everyone) about not touching your aquariums
without asking you first.>
I've purchased Mr. Fenner's book and I
must say, its a wealth of knowledge. I have a few questions I'd like to
ask.
I've been looking into filtration. Fluval 305-405 canister
filters are where my attention is turning. I've been researching filters
from many places, looking at pictures, random message boards, and they
all have pictures of sumps posted. Is a sump the best thing to use or
would the Fluval canister be sufficient?
<A sump is usually
preferred. The Fluval might be ok for a lightly-stocked fish-only tank,
but it's going to be a real burden to clean. And you would have to clean
it often. See here for more info on canister filters for marine systems:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanistfltfaqs.htm>
I'll be using live
rock to help with the bio-load and am interested in some anemone but
these are not necessary now. My question is would my regular light be
fine for the live rock? I know that I would need special lightning for
the anemone.
<You don't necessarily need any special lighting for
live rock.>
I've also been researching RO/DI units. Its within my
means to get one but if I don't actually need one at first I'd like to
save a little money.
<Get the RO/DI unit if you can. You'll
absolutely need it if you ever want to keep an anemone. See here for
more info on RO/DI filtration: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/rofaqs.htm>
(I have to hide all my receipts from my wife so she doesn't know how
much I've spent so far).
<LOL I tried to convince my husband that the
RO/DI filter was for our drinking water too. He wasn't so convinced, but
some people do buy RO/DI filters for their own drinking water.>
I
know that they are recommended but could I get by without one until I
decided to add the corals and anemone?
<You could get by without one
for just fish. However, you'll want to have all RO/DI water before you
even think about corals and anemones. You could also buy RO/DI water
from your LFS.>
Would it cause any harm to the live rock and sand? Or
any livestock I may get including snails and small hermit crabs?
<It's hard to say generally. It just depends on how bad your tap water
is and how sensitive the animal is. At the very least, try to get some
kind of water filter. Even just a cheap 2 stage RO filter would help.>
I apologize if these are asinine questions but I'd like to make sure I
do this right.
<No problem. Keep researching/reading.>
Thank you
in advance for your response.
<Best,
Sara M.>
RO Water and Ammonia... 9/11/07
Hello
once again! I must thank you all for this great site and all the help
you guys do for us, the average aquarium hobbyist!
<:-)>
My
problem this month... hahah... lies within the Ro water I am using. I
buy it locally from a grocery store bottled, its says on the label
processed by reverse osmosis. Whenever I mix up a fresh batch of
saltwater I always seem to get a reading of Ammonia at 0.3-0.5 Mg/L.
<yuck>
I wrote the wonderful people at Coralife and they said RO does
not remove Ammonium Ions in the water column, and when you add the salt,
the salt brings out the Ammonia readings. I use Hagen/Nutrafin test kits
for everything and have confidence in their accuracy. The guy I spoke to
said to use Zeolite before adding in salt,
<?!?>
it only works in
freshwater.
<Hmmm, yes, this is what sewage treatment plants do. But
they have specialized zeolithic filters that aren't commonly used by
aquarists. There is a product line manufactured by Zeovit which
incorporates some kind (unknown) zeolite material in marine aquarium
filtration. But this is not for treating pre-mixed water or water for
water changes/top offs.>
I have a 20g Rubbermaid bin for mixing up
water, with a powerhead and heater as well. What do you guys think I
should do? 1. Use the Zeolite in a small power filter, before adding my
salt?
<I suppose this could work if this zeolite material is the
kind that removes ammonia. What a lot of people don't understand is that
"zeolite" is just a general term for any of at least hundreds of
different kinds of porous rock. Some zeolite rocks/powder will remove
ammonia, some won't.>
If so, how long? 24hrs? 2. Buy a RO/DI 3 stage
filtration setup?
<This would be my suggestion. Most "serious" reef
aquarists have their own RO/DI filters or at least purchase RO/DI
filtered water from a LFS.>
Will I still get some ammonium ions in my
water from using a RO/DI unit??
<If it's working properly, no. RO/DI
filters produce water that's pretty much as close to distilled water as
you can get. When I use my RO/DI unit, I get a TDS reading of 0.>
Thank you for you help in this matter! It is greatly appreciated.
<De nada>
55g reef tank, 55lbs LS, 60 lbs LR, 3 powerheads, Aqua C
Remora skimmer w/ surface skimmer box. 1 yellow wrasse, Organ pipe
coral, 1 skunk cleaner, 2 peppermints, 10 scarlet hermits, 10 Nassarius,
5 red legged hermits.
Brad Ketner
<Sara M.>
RO/DI question 8/20/07
Just finished your impressive array
of FAQ's about RO/DI and other water conditioning. I am starting a 120g
reef tank.
<Just finished my first cup of Joe... am getting up for a
refill>
I am hoping that you can help me determine whether a RO or DI
or a combination is needed in my case. I want to make sure I provide a
good environment for my creatures.
<Sounds good>
I got a water
report done by my water company the contaminants are as follows
Barium ppm 0.063
Fluoride ppm 0.86
Lead ppb 3
Nitrate ppm 0.113
Sodium ppm 14.4
Chlorine ppm 1.9
Trihalomethanes ppb 73
<Want
to take care of these last two...>
Haloacetic Acid ppb 46
Bromate
ppb 13
Copper ppm 0.77
<Mmm, likely will complex with synthetic
mix...>
Thank you so much for your help in advance.
<Is there a
question here? Are you a strong candidate for RO? RO/DI? Might be...
From what is presented, I would just use reverse osmosis... and pre-mix,
store new water for a week ahead of use... as proscribed on WWM. Bob
Fenner>
Re: RO/DI question 8/21/07
Thank you for your input, based
on reviews on the Spectrapure setup from your website I am looking at
two different models one is $200 and the other $300, both 60GPD. Will
the lesser expensive of the two meet my needs for a reef aquarium. Below
are the specs and the filter particle sizes. Thanks alot.
<Bob
answered the last question recommending R.O. unit. I am a fan of RO/DI
for reef tanks. I advocate 0 TDS readings for best results. D.I. unit is
required to get that low.>
the $200 model is spec.ed
Maxpure MPDI
SEDIMENT FILTER (SF-MT-1-10)
CARBON BLOCK (CF-1-10)
RO MEMBRANE
(MEM 25-180) *
DI CARTRIDGE (DI-SB-CI-10)
SpectraPure ® MaxPure T
MPDI Systems incorporate high-flow high-rejection TFC membranes, a 1
micron sediment filter, a 10 micron carbon block filter, and a custom
formulated 10"color-change DI cartridge. MPDI systems are available from
25 to 180 GPD (95 to 680 LPD) production rate, and come with a 3/4"
garden hose adapter.
the $300 model is spec.ed
Maxpure CSPDI
SEDIMENT FILTER (SF-MT-0.5-10)
CARBON BLOCK (CF-0.5-10)
RO
MEMBRANE (MEM S 25-180)*
DI CARTRIDGE (DI-SB-10)
SpectraPure ®
CSP-DI Systems feature SpectraSelect T TFC membranes (guaranteed >98%
rejection), a 0.5 µm MicroTec T sediment filter, and a 0.5 µm Carbon
Block Pre-Filter (for greatly enhanced membrane life), plus a 33% larger
capacity SilicaBuster T 10" DI cartridge. The standard pressure gauge
and clear filter housings mean better visibility to system performance.
Also included is a filter wrench and a 3/4" garden hose adapter.
<These are all fine units. I would recommend a 6 stage unit from the
www.thefilterguys.biz/ OCEAN REEF + 2 SIX STAGE 75 GPD RO/DI>
<Rich
aka Mr. firemouth>
Re: H2O Purifiers 8/1/07
Thank you for your quick response James.
<You're welcome.>
I live in the suburbs of Boston.
Should
increasing the contact time still not solve the problem, will DI help?
<Deionization generally just removes heavy metals, calcium, magnesium,
and salt.
I do not believe it is going to do much for phosphate
removal. An R/O unit would have been a better choice for your
application, as this will produce the purest form of water. When R/O is
used in conjunction with a DI unit, you will have produced a very pure
end product. James (Salty Dog)>
Regards,
Kim
RO/DI...Recommendation, check eBay
7/20/07
Crew,
<Hi Andy, Mich here.>
Not a question, just
some info for those looking for a good deal on a RO/DI unit.
<Always
appreciated.>
I did a lot of research on units and about the cheapest
I could find was a pretty basic unit for $150. Most etailers I looked at
sell the 3 and 4 stage units for $200+. Before I bit the bullet, I
remembered that it had been a long time since I bought anything on eBay,
so I decided to do a quick search for RO/DI units. Well, I just took
possession of a new 100 gpd "Zero ppm" 6 stage RO/DI unit that I bought
on eBay for $76 (plus $28 shipping), and the thing works like a champ!
My TDS went from 116 to 0. The seller offers various configurations for
different prices.
<Thank you for this recommendation and reminder.
Others will benefit and appreciate. Mich>
Andy
Thoughts on
this RO-DI Unit 6/10/07
Hi Crew,
<Andy>
Do you have any
thoughts/experience with Melev's Reefkeeper, a RO/DI unit that sells for
$169 plus shipping (http://www.melevsreef.com/ro_di.html)? I've been
researching units, and this price seems too good to be true. I found
references to this website on WWM but not specifically to this product.
Thanks
<Have met this fellow and he is the "real thing"... I suspect
this is a fine unit... About what it really should cost. Bob Fenner>
Reverse Osmosis 6/4/07
Can you recommend a good RO unit? I'm
looking at a Costco version but wondering of this is same as a RO/Di
unit? What’s the difference?
Thanx for your response
Ace
<The
difference between an RO and RODI is the RODI has an extra stage to
remove what little material makes it through the RO membrane. As to
whether you need it or not, that depends on your source water. Most RO
and RODIs are pretty comparable based on gallons per day, personally I
love www.airwaterice.com for their customer service.>
<Chris>
RO w/o DI - 5/29/07
Hey Crew,
<Dave!>
I have looked and
looked everywhere I can think of but can not find the answer to my
question. I have been reefing it up for about 6 months now and decided
to buy a RO/DI filtration system to make the water healthier for my
tank. I went to Home Depot and started looking around and the only ones
I found were Reverse Osmosis systems without the deionization. <Yes, the
units for drinking water don’t need to polish the water as perfectly as
we like for our reefs.> Nobody seems to have an answer on if the
deionization is the part that I need. <It just finishes removing what
the RO misses. RO takes out a good bit of junk, but can’t get it all.
The DI is very thorough, but too expensive to use to clean up all the
junk out of the water.> Also it did not mention removal of phosphates on
any of the packaging, So I started wondering if possibly the word
Phosphate is a generic term for several different things. <No, that is
one specific thing, and it happens to make algae grow like crazy.> I did
in the end buy a system and it does remove all sorts of things but still
no mentioning of phosphates. I guess a chemistry class may be in order.
<Heee! Reef-keeping Chemistry 101. If you are not having a problem with
phosphates (easy to test source water for) then I wouldn’t worry about
them. But it should be fairly straightforward to add a DI unit to the
back end of your RO system. A simple DI cartridge (or two) should finish
removing anything the RO misses.
Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/rofaqs.htm >
Any help is appreciated, and
for the record I started reading on your website a few days into getting
started on my reef tank and have been very successful because of it.
<Glad to hear!> Also I really want to check out some of the books you
guys have out. Can you steer me in the right direction on where to find
them, and the names? I can’t find the page I found them on before.
<Links here to several dealers that carry Bob's and Anthony's books:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/dealers_and_distributors.htm
I bought “Conscientious Marine Aquarist” at a LFS, and ordered “Reef
Invertebrates” from MarineDepot.com. >
Thanks again
Dave
<Welcome, Alex> RO, DI, or RO/DI? - 03/12/07
Hello
<<Good evening Pam>>
I've been reading your FAQ's about
RO/DI's. I've read positives and negatives on all 3... RO, RO/DI and DI
only.
<<Indeed, like most all aspects of the hobby...is subject to
much opinion. But even so, I think there are some basic guidelines that
can help "you" with your decision>>
Some on WWM say RO is a waste
because it wastes such a huge amount of water and you should do DI only.
<<Mmm...nothing wrong with being "green," but it can be taken to the
extreme I think. Everything has a price, and in my opinion/my locale,
the waste water created is worth it to me to operate an RO filter versus
alternative methods to filter water for the benefit of my reef. But if
this "waste" is something that you can't/won't tolerate, one can find
ways to utilize the waste water...from diverting it to your garden to
using it to wash your clothes>>
Some say RO is all that you need and
DI is unnecessary.
<<In some instances, yes. For a FO or FOWLR
system this is often the case. However, REEF systems often will benefit
from the extra "purity" a DI cartridge can provide>>
Some say RO/DI
is the only way to go.
<<If you want what is generally considered
the "ultimate" in purity, yes>>
I talked to two guys at my LFS, and
one said to have my water tested, and I may only need a RO unit.
<<Good advice...depending on your system>>
The manager at the same
LFS, said for only $50 more, it would be crazy not to get the RO/DI.
<<Arguably this too is good advice>>
I haven't had my tap water
tested. I have city water and a 53 gallon tank that I just
bought. Confused on what I should buy. Everyone seems to have a
different opinion. Help! :)
<<Personally, I prefer a combination
RO/DI unit for "any" marine system, but hopefully you are gaining enough
information to make your own decision>>
Thanks, Pam
<<Quite
welcome...happy to share. EricR>> Re: RO, DI, or RO/DI? -
03/12/07
Thank you Eric.
<<Quite welcome Pam>>
I was
leaning towards RO/DI....and you helped convince me that's the wisest
decision.
<<Excellent>>
This hobby is soooooo expensive...that
it's not worth chancing trying to filter with RO only or DI only.
<<Have their places as separate entities...but as I stated, I prefer to
use them in combination>>
Thanks again. You guys are the best!!
Pam
<<We do try [grin]. Eric Russell>> RO vs. Distilled
2/02/07
Crew,
<Celeste.>
Quick question.
<Answers to follow suit.>
Our water is very hard. We've been
working on trying to lower it by mixing our filtered water (using an
Ecoquest living water system that removes the bad stuff but leaves all
the minerals, etc. in) with RO water that we've gotten from the store.
<?>
We wanted to make sure it lowered the hardness before investing
in an RO unit. After a week or two, we tested it, and our hardness
hadn't dropped at all.
<Not exactly clear on the
methodology being used here. It sounds like you take RO water, and then
mix at an unspecified ratio with water from a drinking water filter. I
wouldn't bet on the repeatability of the results with these "trials" in
water chemistry. Furthermore, the RO that the store is using may be long
overdue for a cartridge replacement. >
We tested the RO water, and
it's at 11!
<RO doesn't remove everything, but should be
a lot softer than that compared to your tap-water.> <<Should be much
softer than this... RMF>>
Not soft at all. (Our filtered tap water
is 13.) We've been using distilled water and it's dropped it down quite
a bit. I've been researching and getting confusing information on
whether RO in itself is soft or if it depends on your tap water to begin
with or whether the store we were getting the water from just never
changed the filters or something.
<http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i4/RO_systems/reverse_osmosis.htm>
If we bought a RO/DI unit, would it soften the water, or should we look
into getting a distiller that leaves the water extremely soft?
<The expense of distilled water is prohibitive, IMO. RO/DI in a
five-stage configuration will leave extremely soft water.>
Thanks
again, and I'm sorry if this is answered somewhere. We really
appreciate all the help with our tanks: articles, FAQs, and answering
our questions.
<Not to worry, Celeste.
Good luck!
-GrahamT>
Celeste DI vs. RODI in NYC 11/30/06
Hello,
<Hey Dylan, JustinN with you today.>
There are many
informative responses to the FAQs on your sites RODI page. Thank you for
those!
<You're welcome, from all of us>
I am still wondering if
I can get away with using only a DI unit in New York City. The water
here is very good for drinking, but I live in an older building and know
nothing about the state of the pipes.
Furthermore, I am concerned
that if I don't spend the extra cash now for a RODI unit and instead
just use the DI unit, I will pay in the end when something goes wrong in
the tank. (Yes, I know that might be a little dramatic). I am new to
this hobby...this is my first reef setup as an adult after a childhood
of watching and helping my dad...so I would like to make it as smooth a
start-up as possible.
Any advice will be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you,
Dylan
<Likely you would be fine with
either an RO-only unit, or a DI-only unit, but given the choice of the
2, I would choose the RO. Replacement parts and filters are usually
cheaper than large quantities of DI resins. No worries though, either
should serve your purpose well. Hope this helps! -JustinN> Re:
DI vs. RODI in NYC 12/1/06
Justin,
It's either
a RO/DI or just a DI. How could they both do the same thing or produce
an equal end product? Why should I use the RODI versus just the DI,
other than price, for the water for my reef tank?
Thanks,
Dylan
<Well Dylan, both outputs of <sic> deionization is extremely pure water,
the difference is that an RO/DI unit will not extinguish your
deionization resin as quickly as a DI unit alone, because of the initial
level of cleansing handled by the RO unit. Beyond this, functionally
they will be very much the same. Either will work here. Cheers!
-JustinN> RO Units...Which One?, What Configuration? -
09/06/06
Hi Crew,
<<Hello!>>
Thanks for taking my e-mail
today.
<<Welcome>>
I have finally decided to buy my own RO Unit
to supply my 75 gallon reef tank.
<<Cool!>>
I was looking at a
few different units and was wondering if you could help me clarify a few
things.
<<Ok>>
First off, I live in Saint Paul, MN and my water
comes from the Mississippi.
<<Via a water treatment facility I
hope>>
Second, I live in a 100 year old house and I assume some of
the plumbing is fairly old.
<<Mmm, a fair assumption...>
I was
looking at the Kent Marine Hi-S and Maxxima Units as well as the
Pinnacle + Units.
<<You might also want to peruse what is available
at your local home center (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.). All RO units
operate on the same principle, and the membranes used by all are made by
just a few manufacturers...you might find you can save some considerable
cash by buying/configuring your own unit from other than a retail "fish"
outlet>>
My first question is if you know the difference between the
Hi-S membranes and the TFC membranes (i.e. is the Hi-S as good at
removing things other than silicates?).
<<Not aware first-hand, but
would assume as much. A search of the NET should find rejection-rate
tables re that will allow you to make comparisons, but unless you "know"
you have high silicates/have a silicate problem you probably don't need
to spend the money for the Hi-S membrane>>
Secondly, with my water
source, would you recommend getting the Pinnacle because it has two
carbon pre-filters?
<<I prefer "two" carbon cartridges on my system
for the extra "capacity" provided. My recommendation here is to utilize
the "solid block" carbon filters with "micron ratings" for particulate
removal (5-micron for the first stage...1-micron for the
second). Periodically removing and rinsing under the tap will extend
their utility>>
Third, if I get the Pinnacle would you recommend
hooking up a DI filter inline?
<<Indeed...as the last stage of the
filter. Another money saver here is to purchase a "refillable"
cartridge and buy "bulk" resin from someplace like Resin Depot
(ResinDepot.com). Initial cost more, but you'll save about 75% or more
(depending on how much you pay for the "disposable" resin cartridges)
over the long term>>
Also, I was planning on hooking up the RO Unit
under my kitchen sink. Can I run the unit from my cold water source or
do I need it to be temperature controlled?
<<The units operate more
efficiently when the water temperature is above 70F (my unit's output
doubles during the hot summer months due to an increase in source water
temperatures), but trying to regulate this is likely more trouble than
it's worth, and you certainly don't want to hook the unit up to your hot
water line...just plumb to your cold water source>>
Do you have any
tips on hooking it up under my sink?
<<Nothing special,
merely follow the manufacturers instructions. A keyword search on the
NET also yields much info re>>
Thanks very much
for the help,
Tim
<<Is my pleasure to assist. Regards, EricR>>
Which RO Unit? - 09/30/06
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I was wondering
if any has used any of these products, Coralife Pure-Flo II RO unit or
Seachem pinnacle 35 gpd RO units?
<<Afraid not>>
The reason I
need a RO unit is because my tap water is very hard (300)with a very
high pH (8.4), and I want to keep fish that require a low pH and soft
water.
<<I see>>
Are either of these systems any good or would
you recommend a different brand.
<<Either will work fine. All these
units operate on the same principles...you could even obtain a (cheaper)
unit from someplace like Lowe's or Home Depot>>
Thanks, this is the
best website for fish info and advice I've ever been on.
--Sbatiste
<<We're pleased you find it useful. EricR>> - Kitchen Water
Filters -
Can you use sink water filters for saltwater changes.
Having lots of problems with diatoms in the last 4-5 weeks. My tank has
been up since Oct and never had a problem till now. I have been using
the tap water from the first. Now I'm getting this algae. I have a Brita
filter on the sink and thought it would take the chem.s out. <Would
certainly take out the chlor-ines/amines... would mean you'd need to
change the filter cartridge more often.> I do water changes every other
week but been doing them more often since this is going on. I use the
conditioner to take out the chlorine and such and use instant ocean.
I've read about the other filters to use but so expensive. I thought
about the Brita on the faucet. <Will take out some stuff, but not all...
not diatoms.> Please let me know thank you.
<Cheers, J -- >
Kati Ani deionizers... DIY units 9/20/04
Anthony,
I know you
like the Kati & Ani units for water purification.
<yep been using
them for over 10 years>
I am trying to locate a Kati & Ani 2 but am
having no luck. Dr. Fosters only have the Kati 10 but have the Ani 2. I
did a search on Google but couldn't find anyone else that sells the Kati
& Ani units. Any ideas? Thanks Pat
<no worries... better still is
the bulk resin for DIY canisters or Kati Ani replacement. Spectra-pure
sells them at:
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_replac_p5.htm
best of luck,
Anthony> RO/DI or Kold Ster-il 9/8/04
Thanks, Bob -
<Anthony Calfo in his stead>
I guess I'd also like your opinion as
to the quality of water produced by the Kold Ster-il vs. the RO units,
please.
Dave Parker
<hard to compare... apples and oranges
really. Kold Ster-il produces highly filtered water... but does not
demineralize like RO or DI. Some people have decent tap water with
desirable mineral content... just in need of cleaning up some of the
nasties (chlorine, phosphate, etc). For such situations... Kold Ster-il
is excellent. But for worse source water (quality or variability of
composition) or for aquarists that simply want better control over the
water used/produced... then demineralizing and then buffering back up
(with desirable elements of hardness) is the way to go vis a vis RO or
DI. I personally favor DI as there is no waste water produced and the
recharge chemicals are dirt cheap and be neutralized to inert so to
speak. RO instead wastes a lot of water with even expensive units and
the cartridges are an ongoing and considerable maintenance expense. Best
regards, Anthony> RO/DI or Kold Ster-il 9/8/04
Thanks,
Anthony,
<always welcome :)>
If I understand, I can produce
top-quality water, then using a Kold Ster-il followed by and add-on DI
stage, and produce no waste water. Is this correct?
<hmmm... my
apologies. I may not have been clear. The first thing you need to decide
on is whether you need ultra pure (ala distilled) water from an RO or DI
that you are willing to NEED to aerate and buffer before every use. This
is the most work on your part, but produces the most reliable, clean
water for evap top off or for salting for marine use. But it is
dangerous to use raw untreated (unbuffered) DI or RO (or distilled)
water. Yet... this is what many aquarists choose to do, myself included,
to insure superb source water. Kold Ster-il units on the other hand do
not demineralize water but leave in Calcium, Magnesium, etc. They are
basically top shelf chemical filters that clean up the water quite a
bit... but do not reduce the conductivity/hardness, etc. It is an
outstanding prefilter for a DI... and if your tap water is not too
bad... can stand alone without even needing a DI or RO. DO test your tap
water to see how bad is bad first. Ultimately, the Kold Ster-il + DI
units an excellent choice in my opinion>
thanks for bearing with me,
Dave
<no worries. Anthony> RO/DI or Kold Ster-il II 9/8/04
Thanks again, Anthony,
<cheers again>
I always aerate and buffer
with SeaChem Marine buffer before adding my salt - I happen to use
Oceanic if it matters. I understand about not using distilled or raw,
RO/DI as top-off - heck I don't even do this for my goldfish tank. I'm
simply looking for a way to produce top-quality water for this process
without wasting 4x what I produce,
<ahhh... definitely DI then for
you>
and to be able to produce it more on-demand since no one is
home during the day to watch the RO unit overflow my Rubbermaid cans.
<no worries... you will have this with DI. But with either... there is
always a simple float switch for your reservoir>
I have a
whole-house water softener, so that much waste water gets expensive, and
I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that my water softener will take a
lot of the calcium and magnesium, in particular, out, but leave some
sodium (or in my case, potassium) in.
<yes... true. Salt
softeners are NOT recommended for use with aquatic life. Long term
problems with water quality>
Do I need ultra pure? Well, I get
algae blooms like crazy using tap, that is why I started hauling RO from
my LFS. So I guess I may not have been clear, either - I want to produce
top-quality raw water, with as little waste as possible, and am in the
practice of buffering and aerating and buffering already. To ask the
question another way, what am I likely to leave in my water by using
Softener -> Kold Ster-il -> DI stage vs. having an RO unit in the
middle, and is this difference enough to cause problems down the road.
<just use the Kold Ster-il & DI stages... never the salt softener>
Appreciate the help and advice, Dave
<best of luck, Anthony>
RO/DI or Kold Ster-il
Hi, Gang and thanks for a great
service! I am setting up a new 120gal FOWLR, and am getting tired of
hauling RO water from the LFS.
<I hear you... my arms are a good
inch longer from hauling water about all these years>
I'm ready to
put in a system myself. However, I am scared by all of the waste water
the typical RO/DI units produce, as water is not cheap here.
<Mmm, I
divert the "waste line water" to my pond outside, and in turn to the
garden>
I've heard about this Kold Ster-il unit, and that it does
not produce wastewater. Can you help me understand the difference in
the processes, and perhaps suggest which might work best?
<This unit
uses filtrants that are not re-used... contactors... so all water that
is filtered, passes through the unit is used. RO utilizes selective
membranes capitalizing on ambient or increased pressure to "squeeze"
water molecules and exclude solids (and their zones of hydration) and
some other liquids, gasses from getting through the membrane... with
their water periodically bypassed to waste>
Either system would come
after my water softener, and in this, I use potassium chloride rather
than sodium chloride as the agent to wash/renew my resin bed. Thank you
for your input!
Dave
<The real (IMO of course) difference in
practical terms are the upfront costs of the two types of
units/technologies, versus the amounts of waste water generated... Both
will produce high(er) quality water of use. If it bothers you to "throw
away" so much RO waste water (a ration of 4-5 to 1 of usable is not
uncommon) than I would go the contactor route. In all fairness though,
do take a look at your water bill, see how much water is going for other
uses... Bob Fenner>
Finding a 2-column Deionizer 11/8/04
Anthony, I am trying to decide on a RO/DI product. You said to look into
a 2-column deionizer as a possible choice. I have not been able to
locate a manufacturer or distributor for this.
Do you or can you give me a short list/recommendations for these?.
Thanks Keith
<a simple keyword/phrase search on google for "deionizer, aquarium" and
like entries will yield good leads my friend. Any of the big mail order
companies too carry deionizers: Marine Depot, Custom Aquatic, Drs. F&S,
etc. The brand I have used for years is "Kati Ani" from Germany.
Anthony> Google, Google, Google till it hurts! Kati Ani dealer
11/9/04
Hello All!!
<howdy>
Anthony, in response to a
deionization question yesterday you mentioned that you personally use
the brand Kati Ani from Germany. Are you referring to Kati Ani
generically or is that the actual brand name. I asked because I have
seen many other recommendations on this product before but cannot find a
distributor or a manufacturer's website. I believe it is made by
AquaTech, but I cannot fine their website. If you have any info to
point me in the right direction I would be quite appreciative.
Thank
you kindly, Corey
<my apologies for the title to this e-mail, my
friend... but I am rather frustrated today - feeling like an enabler -
with friends/queries from folks with seemingly little effort to do a
simple keyword search to help themselves <sigh>. To help you and
illustrate a point... in response to your question, I simply went to the
google search tool which is plastered all over our website and well
known at large. I typed in "Kati Ani price" (three common words that
would appear on a page with this product if it existed out there
somewhere)... and the very first page that came up has a link to:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4499&N=2004+22789
ironically... this merchant is also an advertiser. Our only advertiser
on WWM at present: Drs Foster and Smith/LiveAquaria.com
I'm sure
there are other merchant of this product out there... google till it
hurts, bro. Anthony :)> - RO/DI Evaluation -
I bought this
unit and will be receiving it tomorrow, I have found 1 previous post
about this unit. It is mfg. Water General and it's cost is minimal, it
is a six stage unit will you please evaluate and let me know what you
think of this unit in comparison to a SpectraPure or Kent Marine.
http://www.watergeneral.com/support/html/RD100.htm
<I'm afraid
there just isn't enough information there to form an opinion. Most RO/DI
units are very similar and vary mostly in configuration from
manufacturer to manufacturer. The parts used in each are for most
intents and purposes identical. I'm sure this unit will treat you fine.
Cheers, J -- > - RO/DI Evaluation, Follow-up -
the question
was about the rejection rate in the other post. <I don't see any
information there about rejection rate, but four to five times the
output volume is not unusual.> But I am just curious if this unit is
going to give me quality water for a reef tank. <I'm sure it will be
fine. Cheers, J -- > - Distilled vs. RO -
Hi gang,
<Good
morning, JasonC here...>
The plethora of information contained in WWM
always astounds me... keep up the great work! <Ok.>
I'm presently
using a distiller for my aquariums... it's small, uses about 750W of
power, and takes about 3 hours to make 3 quarts or so of distilled
water. <Not a very efficient way of producing water for your tank.>
I've been considering installing an RO system, but know the membranes,
pre-filters and DI canisters are rather costly. <Not as costly as your
electric bill...> Has there been any cost studies on RO water -vs.-
Distilled? <I think you and I just did one... at this rate, you can buy
new membranes, which last for years when flushed with the money you save
from not running your distiller.> I know the RO system would be far more
convenient... BUT... I can live with the distiller for about
$10/month! <An RO filter would produce much more filtered water per
dollar than your distiller.>
FYI- Our tap water is quite hard, 30 or
more dKH, high in nitrates and high in particulate matter...JOY, huh?
<Just order a back-flush kit to go with the RO device and the membrane
will last a good long time.>
Any information and/or experiences on
this would greatly be appreciated!
Cheers,
Michael
<Cheers, J
-- > DI Water 7/13/03
Hi. I have a question about
treating tap water using a DI unit. What all does DI remove and what
will it do to the water in terms of pH and hardness?
<it varies by
resin brand/quality... but better units almost completely demineralize
water (zero hardness). pH will likely be acidic or at least unstable for
the lack of buffers. It needs to be aerated and then re-mineralized
slightly before use. There really are many FAQs and information on this
subject in our archives at www.wetwebmedia.com Do a keyword search on
the subject with the Google search tool at the bottom of the homepage>
Kent and some of the other manufacturers are less-then-clear about what
exactly their units might and might not take out and how it will change
the water's chemistry.
<just one of the many reasons why I do not
use or recommend Kent products specifically. I have been quoted as
having said that I would not take their products for free>
I am
considering purchasing a unit to help combat tap water that is
less-then-ideal for my reef tank and a possible Discus tank that I may
be setting up in the next few months.
<excellent and agreed... do
look at the Kati Ani brand (Dr.s Foster and Smith, Gwynnbrook Farms,
etc). I have been using this brand for over 10 years [in my discus
hatchery and an industrial sized one for my coral farm/greenhouse]>
Will DI water be beneficial, and is it better then RO
<I think so as
many do... arguably produces slightly purer water>
(I don't like the
idea of how wasteful RO seems to be)?
<agreed!>
Thanks!
Christopher
<best regards, Anthony> - Dealing with Marine
Velvet & RO/DI Clarification -
Thank you for your prompt reply to
my previous question on Marine velvet. My Cuban Hog , Flame hawk and
Zebra Moray Eel have all survived the attack of Marine Velvet. The
Cuban and Flame hawk are eating well and swimming normally. I am
planning on not adding any other fish to my 200 gallon tank for the next
6-8 weeks to break the cycle of this parasite.
<You won't accomplish
much as long as there are fish hosts in the tank.>
My question is
can I keep these three in the main tank.
<No, they should be in
individual quarantine while you let the tank go fallow, also chance to
treat the fish apart from the tank if something were to reoccur.>
I
know you've said that the tank has to remain fallow without any fish to
break the cycle.
<Heh... I just said it again ;-) >
I'm
wondering if the Flame hawk and Cuban Hog have developed some immunity
to the Marine Velvet which would allow them to stay in the main tank.
<Fish that are in excellent health can fend it off to some extent, but
I'm going to guess that your fish are under some extra stress, given
that you used the phrase 'survived the attack' - I would guess you will
see the velvet again.>
Would a UV aid in minimizing the outbreak of
these and other pathogens.
<Only to a very small extent... I don't
really endorse the use of these unless of a hospital system. Can do
without UV by careful use of quarantine.>
My second question is about
Reverse Osmosis. My LFS is using a two stage system when he is making
water for his tank. He does not use the reverse osmosis stage to filter
out his water - just the prefilter and carbon filter. Is this adequate
or should I do the reverse osmosis to ensure the water is clear of any
contaminants.
<Depends one what those contaminants are - how is the
quality of your tap water? Could be particle and carbon filtration are
all you need.>
How does this compare to a DI ( which I am assuming
is a deionizer).
<Each is a type of filtration so each is
particularly good at filtering out certain 'stuff'.>
The only
deionizer I've seen in my area is TapPure which makes about 25 gallons
before the cartridge is replaced.
<Not very economical.>
What do
you suggest?
<Well, in RO/DI, the deionizer is the last stage in the
filter so the resins last a little longer, but is the nature of all
cartridges. Unless your tap water is bunk, you can probably just use
that. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm >
Thanking you in
advance Vito
<Cheers, J -- > - RO/DI and Water
Purification -
Hi,
I've been reading all of your articles on
water purification and it appears it would be wise to invest in an RO/DI
unit. <Really depends on the quality of your source water, but for the
most part these are a worthwhile investment.> I've been looking online
at the Kent, Captive Purity and Spectrapure units. The price of the
high end SpectraPure unit is about twice that of the other two. Is
there any reason for the large gap? <To be honest, I don't know why the
large price gap - could be the parts or cartridges they use. Am aware of
high-volume systems that are quite pricey, but worth it if you need the
output.> Also, can you recommend a good unit. <I'd go with the Captive
Purity [which is what I own] or the Spectrapure just because I have an
allergic reaction to Kent products. But really for the most part, almost
all RO/DI units are created equal - same parts, same cartridges.> I
don't mind paying a little more as long as I only buy it once.
Thanks
for your feedback
-Brent
<Cheers, J -- > - RO Selection -
I'm in the market for a r/o filtration system. Do you have any you
recommend?
<They are really are pretty much the same. Find a unit
that fits your price range and you'll do just fine. Cheers, J -- >
RO (devices for sale)
Bob,
I saw some references to RO in your
forums/posts and wanted to offer my systems as an option. There are a
lot of systems out there, some good some bad, but you never know what
you're getting. My systems are made in the US with US components (no
third tier foreign copies) and are FDA/NSF approved. The price is right
and I have addressed all the normal concerns of RO: low pressure in
tank, wasting too much water, slow production and limited capacity
(small tank that isn't full). My systems are a minimum of 5 stages (4
stage and lower increase membrane fouling and have lower quality water)
produce 50 gpd - five times faster than most RO systems (they are rated
100 gpd but that isn't accurate, although most suppliers go with the
rated gpd) they waste 400% less water than other systems, fill the tank
to 90% of line pressure (competitors go up to 70% - 60psi X 70%=42psi in
the tank) and produce great water and only cost $700 if installed by the
customer.
<Very nice specifications, but the price a bit steep for
the vast majority of pet-fish enthusiasts... however there is (IMO of
course) a percentage of "higher end" folks (maybe a handful %) that
would pay for such units>
I generally sell large upgraded tanks to
aquarium owners 10 - 50 gal or more. I have larger systems as well from
50 gpd to 10,000 gpd. I also sell a distiller/ozonator that cleans up
several problems in fish tanks. Email me and I'll send you a sample of
the water you can put in a tank that has problems and you'll see the
difference.
<No need/desire to send sample. I don't have equipment
for testing such. Please send along your URL and we'll post it on WWM
and give you what feedback we can to assist you in marketing your
products. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Tim Krusemark
Aquatek Water
Treatment - RO & Circulation Questions -
Jason,
<Good n'you?>
Thank you very much for your response. <My pleasure.>
It helped greatly. <Even better!> As it turns out, I found that the
HD/Lowe's RO units are more costly than ones I can order on line from
aquarium supply stores (I think due to the mandatory storage tanks and
fancy chrome faucets that come with them). As a result, I will wind up
getting a 25 G model that should easily allow me to follow your advice
on filling the new tank over a few days.
I hate to be a pest, but I
have 1 additional question (for now ;-)). I just read Anthony's article
"water flow, how much is enough", and what I'm unclear on, is when he
says that most keepers of corals advocate 10-20 times the tank volume
per hour, is this the total between everything including power heads?
<Yes.> Or does that 10-20 spec just take the main system pump into
account? <Total system circulation, including powerheads.>
Thanks
again for your advice.
Eric
<Cheers, J -- > Cheap
RO/DI...
Found this link on another board gang, for those looking
for RO units, these prices seem very attractive, don't know if anyone
has used these guys but thought I'd pass it along....riot.....
http://www.airwaterice.com/Retail%20Price%20List.htm
<Very
reasonable pricing. Thank you for sending this along. Bob Fenner>
- RO/DI Filters -
Hi Mr. Calfo and Bob and Steve and the rest,
<Greetings, JasonC here...>
I want to buy me an ro/di unit(4 stage).
I am not familiarized w/ them that much, although I have done my
homework and I learned that they are 3 different types of membranes:
TFC, CTA, and Hi-S, the latest one being of the highest quality. I am
now wondering if there's a substantial difference on water quality if I
buy a unit that comes w/ TFC instead of the HI-S ones, remember that I
will have a 4 stage. <I don't think so in a 4 stage unit... the DI would
get most everything the RO missed, which wouldn't be much. In my
opinion, the biggest differentiator in RO/DI units is the flow rate -
total gallons per day produced.> I want to know if it makes a difference
who makes the membranes?? (film tech vs. Kent) <Probably not... I'd be
willing to bet Kent doesn't manufacture their own RO membranes but
simply repackages them.> Is the membrane size standard from different
brands? <That I don't know.> what about the canister size?? are they
standard?? <Seem to be.> and what If I get a unit that comes w/ TFC can
I use them and then replace them w/HI-S? <Yes.> can I use membranes that
are for a 35gpd unit into a 36gpd?? <Yes.> I want to support my LFS and
he offered me a 4 stage 36gpd for $165.00, TFC membranes (brand new),
but do you think I should go ahead and buy another one? <Why not go for
it and test the outgoing water - I'm sure it will be 'good enough' as
they say.> (have suggestions??). I want to use the unit for top off and
water changes for my 75g full blown mixed reef. Are the pre-filters
sediment and such) and the block carbon filters necessary/do I see a
difference?? <If you want the RO membrane to last any period of time,
they are quite necessary.> I'm sorry... lots of questions I know! Thank
you so much for any help you can give me though... I just want the best
for my Tank!!
YOUR WEB SITE IS THE ONLY ONE !!(the best)
<Cheers,
J -- > Water filters
Bob or Anthony: I want to know what
your opinion is on Poly-Bio Marines KOLD STER-IL water filter.
<outstanding>
There sales pitch make it sound better than R-O units
in many ways.
<agreed>
Will these units give me very good quality
water?
<some of the purest>
Currently use Kati and Ani but
recharging is a pain.
<heehee... a deionizer is my strong preference
for minimizing water waste actually>
Any info or input would be much
appreciated. Thank you very much:
Pat
<either produce very pure
water. Best regards! Anthony> - Using RO/DI -
Hi how are you today?
<I am well, thanks for asking.>
I am setting
up a 55 gal. reef tank and question the need for a RO or RO/DI unit. I
just received a copy of the water quality in my town. It list some 10
substances and the highest detected levels of each from 1999 thru 2001.
They are as follows.
Fluoride 1.4 ppm
Nitrate 4.9 ppm
Alpha
Emitters 12.0+/-4.0 pCi/I
Copper 1,000 ppb
Lead 7 ppb
Bromodichloro-methane 0.8ppb
Chloroform 3.4 ppb
Sodium 25.9 ppm
Sulfate 36.9 ppm
P-Dicholro-bensine 0.4 ppb
(ppm = parts per
million ppb= parts per billion)
Looking at these findings do you
think an RO or RO/DI unit is advisable or necessary? <I would use it.>
If so what are your thoughts on the KENT HI-S 60GPD MAXIMA RO/DI unit as
I can get this unit at a very good price at Champion lighting. <Most all
RO/DI units are created equal, with the price differentiator being the
output.>
Thanks as always
Dennis
<Cheers, J -- >
- RO/DI at Home Depot -
Am I missing something? I have been
reading all the FAQ re. RO system an keep reading about the simple and
cheep RO system at home Depot. I have gone to there site an find the GE
Reverse Osmosis Filtration System
Model: #GXRV10ABL to be the only RO
system they have. It produces 10 gal per. day and cost $239.00 I can
purchase the KENT HI-S 60GPD MAXIMA RO/DI unit as noted below for
$206.00 and it does 60 gal. per. day and also has the DI unit and HI-S
membrane. What am I missing? <Probably nothing - not all Home Depots are
merchandised the same. The unit mentioned is sold in some instances as a
"Bare Bones" RO, but not always at Home Depot.>
Very Confused <No
need to be.>
Dennis
<Cheers, J -- > Deionization Unit..
Where can they be bought?
Hello!
I am putting together a 120G
reef system and have not decided on what water purification to employ. I
live in a condo and have a 1/2" water pipe at the location of the tank
but not a drain. I don't like the idea of the waste water produced by
RO/DI units as I pay for my water usage. I have been reading your Q&A's
and see references to a two column DI unit but can't locate information
on units available commercially and at what cost, nor any info on flow
rate, resin consumption etc. Would you have any links to suppliers, info
on costs & usage?
<See our sponsors, Foster and Smith for Kati/Ani
systems.>
Assuming I can locate a DI unit that isn't cost prohibitive
and can produce sufficient gallons per day am I better served with this
system than to locate a RO/DI remote from the tank and transport the
water as needed? The nearest sink to the tank is approx 12-15' away.
<This depends on your source water and it's content. Both produce water
stored in a container for later use, pumps move both easily.>
I also
read recently a write-up on a Permeate Pump which significantly reduces
the amount of waste water produced from the RO/Di units. Have you any
experience with this unit and any guidance to share.
<RO units
require optimum pressure and temperature to get the highest production
from the RO membrane, this pump simply increases the water pressure to
increase product vs. waste. If RO is your choice, you must factor
temp/pressure/efficiency to determine likely output, which in most cases
is far less than the advertised rated output.>
One more question, the
waste water from the RO/DI unit, does it drain under pressure. I ask as
I might consider drilling a small hole through the outside wall to drain
the waste to the front garden, although this could be problematic in the
winter months.
Many thanks in advance for your help.
<Yes. Low
pressure, but pressure. You may want to locate it permanently at a known
drain and install a drain saddle to drain into the house system. Buy the
float valve set-up to avoid Marital and water disaster with
either. Test your water completely to buy the right unit. Have
fun! Craig> Will RO work? Is it worth it?
Hi guys,
After two and a half months with my new 55 gallon tank I have still not
purchased fish yet due to a nuisance algae, (mostly brown slime string
algae on substrate and live rock ) problem I am dealing with.
To
trace the source of the problem I started with the source water as that
is the only thing in my tank plus the live rock.
I took my aquarium
water sample (used TWP deionizer cartridge filtered) to a local water
testing consultant (who really knows his water !!) who used
sophisticated accurate testing and this is the results:
Phosphates (tested for total phosphate) .22 ppm
Silica .80 ppm
Nitrate 1.90 ppm
I am
working towards upgrading my protein skimmer as my Bak pak 2 that hangs
off the side of my sump isn't really efficient.
<About the limit of
this skimmer unless adjusted optimally, w/sump more volume than 55 gal.
Look into Aqua-C Urchin Pro or Remora Pro. Add to Bak Pak.>
I am
extremely nervous about going the RO route, not because of the waste, as
I am leaning towards the quality Kold Steril unit but of the big expense
( approx $300 for the system and then needing a plumber to install unit
under my sink).
<Once you provide for the type of unit needed to
remove silicates (phosphate and nitrate is a bit easier) there is very
little substantive difference between RO/DI units (I suggest the DI unit
downstream of the RO) besides price and service should you need it which
is unlikely. Most of the component parts (filter and membrane housings,
etc.) are interchangeable as are many of the after market/replacement
micron and carbon block filters. RO's don't produce as much water below
70-75 F water and <80psi (or manufacturer stated pressure) but this is
simply factored into sizing the unit larger to accommodate your water
needs or investing in a booster pump. You might start in the laundry
room (stay away from bleach, soaps, etc) and push the drain line into
the washing machine drain, hook the inlet up with a "Y" on the washer
cold water valve, and route the product water into a Rubbermaid can on
wheels with a shut-off valve so you don't flood the wife's laundry room.
That last part is the most important. Make it easy to get to.>
Are
these systems worth the cost and hassle ??? I absolutely do not mind
spending the money if it will really work to rid me of this nuisance
algae. I know I cannot be 100 % free of it but my tank now is really
unattractive.
<Yes, they remove the source of these problems. (and
tasty, ultra-pure water.>
I am also worried about the ease of
operation of these units (water temp needing to be just right and flow
rate just right or it won't work etc).
<See above, it will work, just
not produce as much as the rated amount. You need to factor this into
sizing the unit. If you need 30 gallons per day, best to get a 60gpd
unit to factor in temp and pressure being less than optimal.>
How
is your experience been with these RO units and their ability to solve
nuisance algae problems ????
<These are a good investment. Shop
around at our sponsors! Craig> - RO vs. distilled water -
<Greetings, JasonC here...>
I'm sure you cringed when you saw the
subject line, because I know this issue has been talked about. However,
I'm still unclear as to which option is better. Is price the only
issue, or are there other things to consider? <Well, my own limited
experience with home water distillers is that their production is
limited and they take a lot of electricity. You would be limited to
perhaps two or three gallons per day. Now I'm sure there are more modern
units that can improve on that slightly, but you sill have to boil water
and cool it back down to distill it... so all in all the process is
rather inefficient. An RO unit in the price range you mention would
likely produce 35-60 GPD.> I can buy a used water distiller for $300
Canadian, which I believe is probably not too different than what I
could get an RO unit for. So, price being equal, which is the better
option for my reef tank? <RO/DI.>
Thanks,
Steve
<Cheers, J -- >
Choosing RO/DI - Chlorine vs. Chloramine
Hello & Good Day,
Everyday reader of your Daily FAQ. I don't really have a question per
se, just wanting to pass along some information for people researching
the various RO or RO/DI units for purchase.
<Okay>
Once you've
decided on the Make/Model of the unit for you and your fishes and prior
to placing the order, call your local Public Works and ask a simple
question;
Are you using Chlorine or Chloramines for water
purification?
<Almost all United States municipalities use
chloramine>
Knowing the answer, and passing this information along to
your vendor of choice will ensure you get the proper Carbon Filtering
Media.
Case in Point - I purchased a 4-Stage RO/DI unit from Aquatic
Reefs back in February. Not knowing the answer to the
Chlorine/Chloramine question, not knowing there was a difference and not
being told beforehand of the importance of the difference I placed my
order. Unit arrived and I, excited as a kid at Christmas hooked it up
and proceeded to make RO/DI unit water for my tank.
Fast-forward to
Apr 16th. RO/DI water now measures 45+ TDS. I think to myself -Wow- I've
only put approx 125gals through this rig and I already need to replace a
filter. So I call Aquatic Reefs.
Troubleshooting the now high output
and short lifespan of the filtering media led to the realization that my
local Public Works is using Chloramine for purification. My original
setup was shipped with Filter Media for stripping out Chlorine. The
Chloramine has basically 'cooked' the Filter Media, greatly reducing its
lifespan.
So, in closing, take the extra few minutes to research if
you'll need the Filter Media for stripping Chlorine or for stripping
Chloramine.
Then, be sure to pass the info along to the vendor.
I
hope this little bit of info is able to help someone out. I'd also like
to do a quick shout-out to John at Aquatic Reef Systems. Both he and the
company continue to earn High Marks!
Many Thanks,
Scott
<Thank
you for sending this along. Bob Fenner> Water Pre-Treatment...
I'm trying to learn as much as possible about keeping a reef tank before
I actually invest in one (or two...three...) and risk killing the
fish/inverts, wasting money, and making my wife cranky.
<Ya don't
want to do that! Scott F. feeling for you today!>
The biggest problem
I foresee is the issue of initial tap water filtration. The only real
LFS in this area stinks (literally, on some days). They do sell RO but
walking by their tanks is a dismal experience and I don't/can't trust
them to provide me with quality water when almost half of their fish are
bobbing at the top of the tank, bloated, w/ eyes eaten out <shudder>.
<Lovely imagery! Scott F. with you tonight, gagging at his keyboard...!>
Determined to be as self-reliant as possible when it comes to handling
my own water I set about searching for info on the Web and came across
WWM. After staring at different RO/DI units for the past week and
trying to stave off the sensation of vertigo I get when considering all
my options I came across the rofaqs.htm page in which you say, "This is
a very good product", referring to the Kold Ster-il purifier by Poly-Bio
Marine. From my (ignorant) perspective it looks great...says it can
filter up to 5,000 gallon, leaves desirable minerals in the water, etc.
<It really is an excellent product>
Are there any gotcha's that I may
not be aware of...? Or would this unit be all I need to turn my nasty
tap water into something more suitable for sustaining marine life?
<Well, it does leave minerals in the water, which is not a bad
thing...There is no waste water produced with this system. The Kold
Ster-il can be enhanced to extract phosphates and silicates by utilizing
and additional filter media in the second stage of the unit. Use of
RO/or DI is optional, and possibly unnecessary if you use the Kold
Ster-il in this fashion>
The official manufacture's website mentions
using it in tandem w/ a RO filter. Is this needed in most cases? A big
question I'd like answered is whether it produces "waste water" like RO
units do (somewhat of a disqualifying factor for me...can't imagine what
I'd do w/ all of it). Could the water that comes out of it simply be
added after 12hrs aeration/buffer/salt mix...or is there something else
that would have to be done?
<As mentioned above- you could augment
the system with an RO unit- but, in all likelihood, the Kold Ster- il
will do the job quite well...just prep the water liked you mentioned
above, and you will be quite happy with it.>
In the end I'm going to
try to produce enough water for water changes/top off on a 80G Reef, 30G
Planted FW, and 12 Mini/Nano Reef. I am guessing based on the condition
of my FW tank that my phosphates are relatively high. It would also
seem, according to a cheap test kit and opaque water spots on my tank,
that I have "liquid rock" on tap (Southern CA). Am I on the right path
at all?...or am I completely buggered? Any info/guidance would be
immensely appreciated, Jason M. Wood
<Sounds like you're on the right
track to me! Good luck with your set up! Regards, Scott F>
R/O question
Hey,
I stumbled onto your site the other day
after searching for discus online. let me say that you have a great site
with a lot of helpful info. Let me give you a quick run down of my
situation. I bought a 46 bowfront tank second hand and it came with 10
small brown and one larger blue/green discus. After a 2 hour drive and
the setup 2 of the smalls died (3 months ago) so I am now left with 8
brown (orange is more like it) and the larger fish. Before and
especially after looking at your website, I decided on a planted tank.
So far I have regular plain somewhat med/small gravel in there with some
swords which are starting to settle in. I just purchased a 110 watt
lighting top so the plants should start doing better (also have a DIY in
there).
Here is the problem...
The tap water in my area is hard
with about 8ph. The fish are doing ok in it, but obviously could be
doing better in softer/lower ph water.
<You are correct>
One of
the options I currently have is an R/O system. It would be used for
drinking water as well as the tank.
<Good>
Since I have never had
an R/O system before, this is where the confusion begins.
<I am a
BIG fan of these units...>
I have looked through different stores as
well as different sites for ideas but have yet to find a system I am
happy with (since I don't really know what to look for) and the articles
on krib are from 92 and around that time. I found a system on Costco.
COM which doesn't waste any water (at least it's their claim) which
leads me to believe that all the others do. this system would run about
310.00 and it's their only system.
Costco's RO Unit. On EBay I found a bunch of systems for
$100-$200. I know you are seriously busy and said to check out
your faq and the rest of the site (which I did and did not find an
answer to this). If you can point me in the right direction, I would
most certainly appreciate it.
Thanks, David
<No worries... David,
there are only slight "variations" in these units... akin to "super" or
"regular" gasoline... All these units "will do"... the amount of water
actually "wasted" (vented, more solute laden) is actually miniscule...
folks lose more water from leaks... long showers... a concern in some
places... and a possibility to build.... perhaps a pond! To vent this
water to... and in turn to landscape irrigation... Do take a read
through the many RO FAQs filed here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/h2opurifiers.htm the blue, linked files
at top... for more opinion, input. Bob Fenner - RO/DI Units -
I've used your site several times for info and learned a lot. I'm
looking to buy a RO/DI unit for my 155 tank but I'm a little confused as
to the following;
1. Is RO unit preferred over RO/DI or the
opposite?
<Depends on the source water. I own an RO/DI unit but my
current water doesn't need the DI so I run it without that cartridge.
Also, RO/DI water typically needs to be reconstituted before adding
salt.>
2. Any preference over the best type of unit?
<No... all
are built pretty much with the same parts.>
3. Bob has mentioned that
he has used units bought from Home Depot... I'm thinking of doing the
same... what are the specifications I have to look for?
<The GPD
[gallons per day] that you require; not much more.>
Nilesh
<Cheers, J -- > RO systems
Are average RO systems
for home well water purification (i.e., under-sink models) adequate for
marine aquarium use? I'm referring to the name brand systems, like
Kenmore, Whirlpool, and GE. I also hear that most home systems are not
suitable for well water because they don't have the antibacterial
substance in the RO membrane unit, which can cause the membrane to clog
in as little as 2-3 weeks. What have you heard about this?
<The RO's
for home use are designed to work with chlorinated water. The chlorine
in the water prevents bacterial buildup on the membrane. Keep in mind
that a good RO system usually pushes water through a 1 to 5 micron
cartridge before it enters the membrane. There are units available for
unchlorinated water supplies. Check with Drs. Foster & Smith or Premium
Aquatics as to availability. James (Salty Dog)> Reverse Osmosis
Real quick one tonight. I am looking at purchasing a new RO and wanted
to know your opinion on the Captive Purity Brand.
<I have no first
hand knowledge, but a lot of people on the message boards seem happy
with them. I use and sell the SpectraPure line.>
What you know or
have heard?
<See above>
The three I am looking at are the Kent
Marine Hi-S, Captive Purity, and SpectraPure.
<I have always been
happy with SpectraPure.>
Thanks, Bryan
<You are welcome. -Steven
Pro> RO filters...
Hello! I was reading through some
FAQ's about RO/DI filters and I'm stumped again. I saw that your
response to an RO filter was that it wasted obscene amounts of water,
<Probably Anthony. He is much more sensitive about them then Bob or I.>
so if I wanted to purchase a water purifier of sorts should I go just
for a DI filter instead of an RO or an RO/DI filter?
<There is no
difference in waste water between a RO or a RO/DI filter. DI alone,
though, do not waste any water, that is until your recharge them, but
that amount is still very small in comparison.>
I have heard so much
raving about these filters and it seems like a brilliant idea and much
healthier for my fish so I thought I'd rig up the classic rubber-maid
trash can and get started, but I wasn't sure what was the suggestible
route to take.
<I use a Kati-Ani DI unit and love it, but the
chemicals to recharge an rather nasty, so for most people I recommend RO
units.>
Also, I have massive space constraints (I live in a dorm) and
while I could fit a trash can system in my room it's not easily hidden
and it would take up a fair amount of space, is there any other option?
<If your tank is small, 30 gallons or less, an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
Tapwater Purifier maybe a good option. The unit is small and cheap, but
the cartridges must be replaced. This can get expensive if you need a
lot of water. That is why I recommend them for relatively small tanks,
only. By the way, this unit is a mixed resin DI.>
I don't mind
sacrificing a bit of space or beauty for my fish, but I just thought I'd
ask :-) Thanks again for all your time! Sincerely, Rachael
<You are
welcome. -Steven Pro> Salt Pellet De-Ionizer
Thank you
for your prompt responses.
<our pleasure indeed>
Yes, I know I
need to do something quick. I have been trying to surf and learn.
<excellent... your best defense is always being an educated consumer>
Yes, I hang my head in shame.
<no need for that... we are all and
always learning>
I am poisoning my fishes and my self with my
salt-pellet-fed water softener. Sears Kenmore, no less. (sigh). I never
knew it was bad, health-wise. Are you a doctor?
<no... not at all,
my friend. And the softer use for people is not really a problem (I
exaggerate <G>)... some folks have ascribed concern and complications
for the excessive consumption of these chlorides.<Actually sodium. RMF>
Ultimately... it simply isn't as good of a choice (with regard for
purity) as an Reverse Osmosis or Deionizer for the whole house and
fishes. The chloride for the fishes, now, is another story altogether.
Prolonged use of salt recharged softeners has demonstrated clear
symptoms of enlargement of the olfactory pores on the heads of cichlids
(resembles hole in the head disease). It can be induced in less than a
year when using this water (salt recharged/chloride rich). Other fishes
are surely stressed too. The first thing we need to do is assess which
if any fishes in your tank need soft water. Then decide if its worth the
effort or perhaps you can simply enjoy harder water fishes instead (some
cichlids, most all livebearers, etc)>
Again, the Aquaclear 150 is my
only filter, other than the fine and massive surface area of the gravel
itself,
<which is really little help with such a big fish load...
helpful, but not enough and easily disturbed>
and all those nice long
roots of the water hyacinths and milfoil or whatever it is, which
doubtless also harbor those nice bacteria, and are the only reason my
ammonia is 0 so far.
<agreed and wonderful... the plants are an
enormously effective filter. Your tank would literally crash within days
without them.>
And of course, I have been cleaning the gravel and
replacing about 2 gallons every weekend. I wasn't clear on your answer
about the undergravel filter. Are you saying you prefer a "large
canister filter or wet dry trickle filter" to a larger Aquaclear AND an
undergravel filter?
<the AquaClear with either the canister or the
wet dry. The UG filter is too hard to install at this point and not as
good of a filter>
I am not familiar with canisters or wet dry
trickles, but I did see some on eBay. I will try to research and read
what they are.
<definitely look into some good reference books too
please. Much is explained therein. >
What size do I want? I think I
would prefer an undergravel if that would do the trick, as it sounds
like a "set it and forget it" type of thing...easier?
<an
undergravel filter is in fact more maintenance than a W/D or a canister
filter. Gravel siphoning is necessary and laborious>
But I want to do
whatever my little finny friends need. Just guide me, oh guru of the
water world. Humbly, Lisa
<you are on the right track... do keep
learning and growing. For know... cultivate those plants with TLC, do
regular water changes (small weekly ones are best), do not buy any more
fish, please do buy some good reference books, and enjoy your hobby :)
Anthony> Reverse Osmosis Filters
Hello Crew just
bothering you guys yet again.
<No bother!>
I'm thinking of
purchasing an RO filter and wanted to see if you could tell me what the
advantages and disadvantages are to using RO water in your tank and if
you would recommend an RO system over another.
<The answer to both
questions starts with testing your source water and then purchasing a
unit that removes any unwanted elements and produces the volume of water
you need at a given temperature and pressure. The reference to "stages"
usually refers to the number of filtration modules the water may pass
through. This usually starts with a half or one micron filter, a carbon
block filter, a RO membrane for the type of water you have, and perhaps
a deionization stage to remove silicates or elements the RO membrane
can't remove.>
Looking around I ran into these different systems but
I don't quite know how they differ one from the other (except that one
is more expensive then the other).
Two Stage SP Reverse Osmosis
Two Stage CHP Reverse Osmosis
Three Stage Reverse Osmosis
Any help
would be appreciated. Thanks.
<The best way is to start with your
water and needs, and then proceed from there. Many questions can be
answered this way without marketing confusion. Check out the equipment
threads at:
http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/index.jsp Also look into Kati/Ani
units at our WetWebMedia.com sponsors. Craig> RO, Kati/Ani
Unit
Good Evening Crew,
I'll try to keep it brief this evening
for ya'll. I've used RO water religiously since I set my 55 gallon tank
up 2 years ago (FOWLR). However, I'm tired of the 30 minute drive that
it takes to get to the LFS. Thinking about getting a Kati/Ani unit but
can't find enough information about the two.
<First off, go to
www.WetWebMedia.com and type Kati Ani into the Google search engine. You
should find plenty of information that way.>
What's the difference,
and do I need both?
<You do not need a RO and a DI, but you do need
both the Kati and the Ani portion of a deionizer.>
Dr.'s F&S have a
Kati 2 and Ani 2. Would this do?
<Yep>
R/O wastes way to much
water and I don't want to be the wanker responsible for draining the
local reservoir dry. Alright, one more thing, what kinda chemicals are
used to regenerate the units?
<Muriatic acid (HCl) and Lye (NaOH2)
The last thing I need in my kitchen is a Meth lab. The one in the
basement is more than enough (just kiddin'!). Thank you so much for your
time, knowledge, and love for the hobby/lifestyle. Rob
<You are
welcome. -Steven Pro> Improving Tap Water
Hi guys,
<Hi there! Scott F. here this evening!>
As I've stated in my previous
emails, I am slowly converting from a FO to a reef tank. Right now I
cannot afford an RO/DI unit. I was wondering if a product like
Seachem's Phosguard would be enough to get me by.
<Seachem makes fine
products, but I don't think you can rely on a phosphate-removing resin
alone to deal with phosphate on a continuous basis. I think that the
best way to eliminate phosphate from aquariums is to do frequent, small
water changes (like 5% twice a week). Much phosphate is regularly
deposited in the aquarium through foods, so careful feeding is another
thing you can do to reduce phosphate buildup in your tank. Perhaps you
can treat your makeup source water with the phosphate removing resin
before you mix the salt.>
I live in New York City. Are there any
other parameters (besides phosphates/silicates) that I should be
concerned with in a city water supply?
<Many, many things, such as
nitrate, heavy metals, chloramines, etc. A good grade of activated
carbon in an inside box filter, placed in your makeup water container
can help remove some of them. Using a product like PolyFilter in your
system on a regular basis can remove a lot of detrimental substances
from the water, too.>
As far as chlorine goes, do the salt mixes on
the market like Coralife and Instant Ocean contain dechlorinators, or
should I also be using a product like Amquel?
<I am not aware of any
salt mixes that contain dechlorinating substances, so I'd use one of the
products you mentioned, in addition to aging, filtering, and aerating
the makeup water before its use>
If/when I can afford an RO/DI unit,
can you recommend an efficient, low cost unit. Also, what product
should then be used to replace what the RO/DI removes from the water?
<There are a number of good units out there on the market available to
hobbyists. I'd recommend a DI unit instead of an R/O for its efficiency
and lack of excessive waste water production. Do check our advertisers
on the wetwebmedia.com site for the manufacturers and models that they
carry>
Thanks again, Adam
<And thank you, Adam, for stopping by!>
RO Water
Hello once again guys. David D will be thrilled to hear
a new LFS has opened up 15 minutes from my house....it is INTENSE, very
cool.
<Allriiiiiiiight!!!>
Also, I found out this week about
Inland Aquatics in Terre Haute, IN....I live in Indianapolis. Went out
there....they say it is the world's largest reef replica....it also is
super intense, you guys have to see it sometime. Huge warehouse.
<Oh man oh man! I would love to see it!>
So anyways, I have a new
supplier. Second, an Aqua C Remora Pro is en route to my place as I
write this...question...is it worth leaving the SeaClone 150 running as
well as the Remora Pro, since the Remora Pro isn't quite big enough for
my 120gal?
<Does the SeaClone pull nasty stuff out of the water? If
it does, leave it. At any rate, it won't hurt anything it just might not
help much>
Finally, I have decided that I'm going to start RO/DI for
my water changes....Indy water is awful, I hate to think what could be
getting to my fishes.
<You should see the test for the Las Vegas
water supply...>
So, here's the main question: Are they all pretty
much the same, or are some units better than others?
<Yep...not
much different. They all use cartridges that do the job of filtering.
Personally, I haul water from a public RO/DI station that is near our
local supermarket. I do this because municipal water is expensive in
Vegas and believe it or not...Over the years I've grown to enjoy the
weekly water outing. If you really don't want the hassle of hauling,
consider skipping RO and use a DI unit only. I read emails all the time
about how much waste water is produced by the RO process. One email said
the ratio of waste to water on her RO unit was 10 gallons to 1 gallon!
That's too much for my taste. The DI process produces no waste water...>
CTA, Hi-S, etc, etc...?
<Again...not much different. More stations
mean more filtering but you really don't need to spend a lot of money on
this item>
I really only need about 3 GPD, my water supply is free of
charge, and I'm fairly sure I want to go with the Kent brand RO/DI
filters.
<Kent will be okay. By the way, the units that are sold at
Home Depot and other places are more permanent than a fishy unit but
other than that, they are basically the same. I would check for a
no-name-brand unit at one of these warehouse stores. In your case, it
might would be better to just install a permanent unit on your kitchen
water faucet. Then you too could have the benefits of drinking RO/DI
water!>
Hate to ask for brand endorsements, but I need to make sure I
do this right. Thanks.
<You're welcome! I wouldn't spend a lot of
time worrying about brands on this item. Look for what the unit removes
form the water (metals, nitrate, etc)...be sure the things that it
removes are what you want to remove and then check out what the waste to
water produced ratio is...pick a unit with numbers that you can live
with. David Dowless>
Matt RO filtration or Carbon Filtration
?
Hello WWM crew,
I had yet another question regarding RO/DI
and Carbon filters. I've been reading on how RO filters waste a lot of
water but will make your water 99% pure. On the other hand, I heard that
carbon filters will not waste water and will make your water 90% pure.
Is this true?
<RO units do waste water and probably make 99% pure
water. I do not know how much a simple carbon filter could extract, but
find it hard to believe it would approach 90%.>
Would it be wise for
me to invest in a dual stage carbon filter or would it still leave a lot
of impurities and be a waste of money?
<If you want pure water and no
waste, you should consider a DI unit. We have written much on them on
www.WetWebMedia.com. Use the search terms Kati Ani or Deionization and I
am sure you will find plenty.>
Thanks
<You are welcome. -Steven
Pro> Confusion over RO vs. RO/DI vs. DI
Hi, I hope you
can help me out with some of the confusion I'm having over RO/DI. That
phrase (RO/DI) is my problem. When reference is made to using them in a
marine aquarium, are you referring to one OR the other or one AND the
other together?
<A RO/DI unit has both a RO membrane and a DI
canister.>
What I see for sale is mostly labeled RO units.
<They
are the most popular, RO only. RO/DI are for truly awful source water
and/or to make very pure product water.>
I am looking to remove
primarily phosphates from my tap water. Which is more effective for
this, RO or DI?
<Either will be fine.>
Will one remove some
phosphates and the other make up the difference?
<Ro/DI units are
very good for removing silicates.>
If the RO unit is the better
choice, are the TFC units worth the price difference over the CTAs?
<Yes, you want a real RO unit, not the "bare bones" types.>
I'm
anxious to get rid of the daily scraping of my aquarium glass!
<This
may be part of the solution, but not all of it. Do review your other
sources of nutrients and your nutrient export processes.>
There was
an answer on the forum to a reader concerned about lowering phosphates
that said "I recommend a DI unit instead of an RO for its efficiency and
lack of excessive waste water production". Was there an ecological
consideration or a reference to it doing a better job with phosphates?
<Likely Anthony and an ecological reference.>
Thanks in advance for
any help you can provide.
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Reverse Osmosis Systems
Hello,
<Hi Helene>
My husband is
looking into a reverse osmosis system for his 90 gal marine aquarium
(has fish and live rock). Can you recommend a specific one that is
reputable and where to purchase (either online or store). We live in
Maryland.
<Am sure there are some specific brands that the other
folks here might well specifically recommend. I am of the opinion that
most all units available are within a few percentage points similar
(like brands of gasoline) and consistent with this perspective just
buy/use "home improvement warehouse" models... that incorporate an
in-line pre-filter... and either just the "little pressurized storage"
unit included or have the device dump the finished water into a
dedicated trash-can... and pump it from there. Some aquarists prefer the
Deionized or combo. R.O./D.I. product... and if you're going to be using
the R.O. much, there is the "waste" water volume to consider using for
other purposes. Please see here re more input re these matters:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/rofaqs.htm
and the linked FAQs files
beyond. Bob Fenner>
Thanks very much, Helene RO/DI question
12/1/04
Hello All: I found a manufacturer of RO/DI units in your
FAQ's and now I cannot. Can you possibly give me a list of several
recommended models/manufacturers to jog the ol' gray matter? Thanks for
the help. Scott
<Other than being sure that you get a TFC (Thin Film
Composite) membrane, I would suggest shopping price. Most membranes are
made by the same few manufacturers and are of good quality. Most
aquarium brands come at a premium price, but may have better rinsed
carbon cartridges (rinsing removes the phosphate introduced in the
manufacturing process). I have found many good deals on EBay as well as
small independent companies that cater to aquarium folks. A Google
search should keep you busy shopping for hours. Best Regards. AdamC.>
SpectraPure DI unit model suggestion 11/29/04
I have been
considering purchasing a DI unit to produce high quality water for my
marine aquarium for some time now and have sifted through the RO/DI
facts on your website to pick a brand. I noticed Anthony endorsed
SpectraPure DI units on numerous occasions so I think this is the brand
I am going to purchase.
<Hmmm... I don't recall
SpectraPure so much as Kati Ani brand FWIW>
I am confused as to what
to by as after my water softener to remove some of the extreme hardness
my water contains, this will
be my sole water purification as I am
not going to get an RO unit. The SpectraPure website recommends the two
stage D-CL-AR-2-10 system for water containing chloramines and
recommends the two stage D-CL-Sil-2-10 for removal of
Silicates/Phosphates/Nitrates, and CO2. As I want to use the unit to
dechlorinate my water in addition to removal of the
Silicates/Phosphates/Nitrates, could you tell me what to buy to
accomplish this?
<Really not sure for whole house use...
do rely on the mfg rec.s>
Will the two stage D-CL-Sil-2-10 unit also
dechlorinate the water? And do I have to buy other components such as a
1 micron filter and an activated carbon filter to add on to the two
stage D-CL-Sil-2-10 for it to be totally self sufficient? And my final
question, does the SpectraPure units hook directly to my kitchen faucet
or do I need some type of adapter? Thank you for the advice. Ray
<These questions are really best for the manufacturer or dealer, my
friend. I can only speak to aquarium units. Anthony>
Mixed-Bed versus Rechargeable Deionization 1/11/05
I have two
questions about deionization and determining what purification system is
appropriate for my tap water.
(1) If rechargeability is not a
factor, wouldn't mixed-bed deionization be more advantageous due to its
ability to produce purer water?
<not necessarily true (usually not
in fact). It depends wholly on the resin, and there are many kinds to be
had. generally the rechargeable ones are better quality than the
disposable hobby use satchels>
A representative of Kent Marine
stated that a mixed bed deionizer will produce water with 18-megaohm
resistivity compared to rechargeable deionizers that produce water with
only 2-megaohm resistivity.
<perhaps true of some low
grade resin he was comparing to for marketing purposes. I assure you
this is not the case for all others or even most rechargeables>
I
notice that SpectraPure uses mixed-bed resins in its "Ultimate" DI
system that is also capable of producing water with 18-megaohm
resistivity.
<its indeed more profitable to keep selling disposable
resin rather than rechargeable one time only ;))
Many chemophobics,
such as myself, shy away from the caustic chemicals used to recharge
resins and would simply replace depleted resins in any case.
<Yikes!
What a waste of resources! And the recharge chemicals mix to form inert
(literally drinkable as demonstrated by chem lab professionals with
carefully measured molar concentrations). You are off the mark here my
friend... wasting is not conscientious, re-using is IMO>
(2) Where
can I take my tap water to be tested to determine if prefiltration &
deionization alone is sufficient?
<many (water) testing labs
online... do a google search for one that appeals to you (price.
service, etc). Maybe ask your local water authority for their official
analysis>
I'd like to forego wasteful reverse osmosis and use
prefiltration with deionization if the quality of my tap water is good
enough. I live in Colorado and am deeply suspicious of my "Rocky
Mountain spring water." Don't ask me about Coors beer--I've smelled the
water at the brewery. Regards, Paul.
<have no fear of the two column
deionizers my friend... really efficient and environmentally friendly
use/re-use. Anthony> Pre-Filtration & Marine Salts 1/12/05
Anthony,
<cheers>
I very much appreciate your reasoned response
to my questions regarding mixed-bed versus rechargeable
deionization. You have sold me on the concept of minimizing waste.
<always welcome my friend... I do aim to be sensible/practical>
I'd
like to pose two follow-up questions:
(1) Which prefiltration
assembly do you recommend for rechargeable 2-column deionization systems
such as the KATI/ANI? The only one I can find is the SpectraPure
FA-PRE-0.5M-20 but I hope that you can direct me to more affordable
prefiltration systems.
<many possibilities here ... depending on the
quality of your source water running through it. But, if your tap water
is nothing out of the ordinary (like iron-rich well water requiring an
extra metal sponge, or silicate-rich water needing chemical media, etc.)
then I say just go to your local Home Depot or DIY store and get a cheap
drinking water pre-filter unit. Two canisters cost (well under) $50.
First stage will be 1 to 5 micron floss... second stage is simply good
quality carbon. If you are really handy, you can DIY home make canisters
out of PVC for even less money. If you want to get fancy, have two floss
pre-filters (12 micron and a 5 micron to follow)... and better still...
have Poly-filters (Poly Bio Marine) after the carbon stage>
(2) What
brands of marine salts will complement the Kold Ster-il filtration
system? Since the Kold Ster-il system does not filter certain minerals
(calcium, magnesium, strontium, barium) and buffering compounds
(carbonates, bicarbonates, hydroxides) from my pH 8.1 tap water, which
marine salts contain lower amounts of these minerals and compounds?
Regards, Paul.
<without spending a fortune... I'll say that Tropic
Marin is presently the best you can buy. I will add though that I
generally like Instant Ocean's QC and affordability in my region and use
it more often. Anthony> Kati/Ani de-ionizer 1/25/05
I'm
very interested in these units since they've been highly recommended and
I'm not a fan of wasting water with RO. I searched through all the
forums on the net and all the FAQs on this site and I've even called Dr.
Fosters and Smith (since they seem to be the only e-tailer carrying
them) but I'm not confident with the lack of information or answers I've
received. So on to the experts (I hope I'm not wasting your time).
<no worries>
First question is, if I were to get the KATI 10 and ANI
10 (internal volume: about 785 cubic inches apiece) and use a carbon
block pre-filter, about how long do you think the resins would last
before regeneration is needed?
<impossible to say as it is dependent
on the quality of your source water>
Also, am I safe in assuming that
if I were to get the ANI 5 which has about half the volume, the resin
would last half as long?
<half as long before needing recharged,
yes. Its just a matter of volume. The quality of resin is the same
though>
I've heard of people who have chlorine/chloramines in their
water first aerating it overnight and then running it through the DI
units to lengthen resin life. When you were operating yours, did you do
this or did you just go straight from the tap?
<a carbon prefilter
takes care of this more conveniently>
I've read that anion units in
general produce water that has a high Ph. If I run the KATI first and
the ANI last, what would you suspect the Ph would be (i.e. does the ANI
unit produce a consistent ph or is it totally dependent on the input
water)?
<regardless of pH it will be unstable as it is
demineralized... and as such, at risk of crashing (acidic). It needs to
be buffered>
And last, I've read that you recommend this unit a
number of times. However, I've never really heard why. Is it due to
quality craftsmanship, quality resins, ease of use, or other reasons?
<resin quality alone... the unit otherwise is awkward with tapered
metric fittings>
Thank you so much for the help with this and all the
help that you have given others along the way. Your service is truly
invaluable. Derek
<with kind regards, Anthony>
Reverse Osmosis
Hello Bob, Bryan again.
<Hi Bryan, Steven
here.>
I'm going to order a RO unit, was looking at the Kent Marine's
products, are these good units? They have a Hi-S (high silicate removal
TFC membrane) is this for real or is it just a selling tactic to sell
more expensive membranes?
<No, they are a higher quality membrane. I
am partial to the Spectrapure units. Their website is on the links
page.>
Now to my real question. From the F&Q's I think I understand
that RO removes heavy metals, chlorine and even chloramine, nitrates,
phosphates etc.. and other small particulates in water. This type of
purification softens the water so an additive for pH and Alk must be
added. I'm going with a FOWLR. Would a two part like B- ionic help (read
that the added calcium will help w/ coralline algae growth on LR) or can
using s/t like SeaBuffer or reef builder that sets pH and Alk in one
step work.
<I would use the SeaBuffer from Aquarium Systems. It is
just as effective and a lot cheaper.>
Thanks for all the great help.
Bryan
<We are all glad to help whenever possible. -Steven Pro>
RO Filtration Question
So I purchased an RO system so that I can
begin making my own salt water and top off water for my aquarium as
suggested by Steven Pro. It wasn't that hard to install and I'm happy I
did it.
I purchased the Premier 5 stage system from Costco after
hearing good things about it. The quality of the water is great, but
it's slow. I went on their website and it seems like the system is only
rated at 18 GPD. BUT... they also sell other replacement membranes that
are anywhere from 25 GPD to 75GPD.
Is the membrane really all that
determines how much water gets produced by the filter?
<Those ratings
are for best case scenario. Things that effect performance are total
dissolved solids in the water, line pressure, temperature, age of
pre-filters, etc. -Steven Pro> Salt Water Tank Questions
Anthony...Thanks for the fast response the other day
<always
welcome>
and I love your website.
<thanks again... but its not my
website <wink>... Bob Fenner is Santa, we are just the elves (no short
jokes please!). In fact, it is a great collaborative effort of many seen
and unseen folks. They will be sure to see this, my friend>
Since the
information that I have been seeing appears accurate I would like your
opinion on some topics for which I keep getting conflicting opinions. I
have been using distilled water in my 105 gallon marine fish only tank.
Does this provide any advantages over the use of tap water which is
relatively hard?
<it really is a disadvantage if you are not aerating
it and then re-mineralizing it before use with Seabuffer of some kind.
Distilled is too pure and a burden on the alkalinity of marine aquaria.
However, once re-mineralized (with the good stuff only, so to speak) it
is indeed better than many sources of tap water which are seasonally
changing and sometimes laced with contaminants>
The second part of
the question is if R.O water provides any additional benefits.
<not
really... and I don't care for it as the process is very wasteful of
water. De-Ionizers are much better IMO>
My tank is about 5 months old
and I am still getting brown algae on the decorative corals.
<yes..
definitely a sign of nutrient export deficiencies>
I thought that by
using distilled water I would cut down on this.
<only if the
nutrients were coming from your tap water. It is more likely that your
skimmer doesn't produce enough skimmate daily or that you
overfeed/overstock at least a little>
Is this accurate and what aside
from bleaching the corals can be done to eliminate the algae?
<simple
nutrient control.. protein skimming alone can cure it. Also carbon,
water changes and more careful feeding techniques (do look into feeding
and algae topics in the archives of this site)>
My tank is 28" deep
and I have been using 50/50 and 10,000k fluorescent bulb to light it for
approximately 5 hours per day.
<really not enough light. And light
alone does not cause algae... nutrients under light cause algae>
I
like the look of power compacts, is this the way to go (and if so what
wattages for a 48"x18'x28') and which bulbs. Will heat be an issue.
<If you don't have or will have corals... the lighting is largely an
aesthetic preference. Heat is not an issue with any of the well made
light canopies... or at least it is quite minor>
Thanks again and
keep up the great work.
<with kind thanks, Anthony> Water
Purification
Thanks for your suggestions regarding sea urchins;
so far, they're doing well.
We've found that using a Tap Water
Purifier greatly increases survival of all aquatic life here - I guess
that our water is less than perfect. Since we use so much water, I've
been thinking of getting a more substantial system - reverse
osmosis/deionization or KATI/ANI towers. Do you have a suggestion as to
which is the best, for basic improvement in water quality? I need water
for both freshwater and saltwater aquaria.
<Reverse Osmosis units are
my general recommendation for most people. They are easy to use and easy
for keep working properly. On the other hand, I have and use a Kati/Ani
system and love it. It was about the same initial price as a comparable
RO, but the on going costs are considerably less. The major downside is
recharging the unit. To do this you have to handle some fairly nasty
chemicals, sulphuric acid and sodium hydroxide. These are both
dangerous. The other major downside to all deionization units, including
the Tap Water Purifier, is if you continue to use them after the resins
are exhausted, they will continue to exchange ions. Everything that was
absorbed since the last new cartridge or recharge can now become
imparted into the newly processed water. You have to determine, can you
closely monitor the resins change color and are you safely capable of
recharging the units.>
Thanks very much. -Ann
<You are welcome.
-Steven Pro R.O. v. R.O./DI? (Antoine's opinion... others may
vary)
Hi Bob,
<crew member and author Anthony Calfo in your
service>
Please comment on the advantages/disadvantages of an R.O. v.
R.O./DI system for my 125 gallon FOWLR...
<Both produce very high
quality water... but I wouldn't take or use an R/O unit for free.
Hobbyist grade units under the best circumstances (new membrane, new
prefilters, tempered source water) still only yield at a 4:1 ratio. High
grade units (like car wash models) are still only 1:1. That means if you
spend $1000.00 or more on a unit that produces at 1:1 (under ideal
circumstances only) you will still waste 1 gallon of water down the
drain for every good gallon you collect. And in the case of the hobbyist
models...there will be 4 to 8 gallons down the drain per. I quite
frankly don't have the shame to send likely 500+ gallons of water down
the drain just to fill a one hundred gallon tank. And then the water
changes, evap water, etc... please! It kills me. The reject water is
going to be over 20% more concentrated with all of the undesirables than
the raw tap water that you didn't want to use in the first place. So
unless you plan on starting your own salt lake or have stock in the
water company. Go DI! No membranes to replace (little or no memory to DI
resin even in the long run), combined recharge chemicals neutralize and
can be drained (caustic but easily degradable, and again... easily
neutralized together). And an average recharge costs $2-3 dollars per
several thousand gallons of purified water (depending on how close to
"average" hardness your source water is... still cheap any way that you
look at it!). And there is no waste water. As far as brands... hmmm, I
have experience extensively with one brand only (and liked them well
enough to spend several thousand dollars on multiple units but still
have qualms with them). Let me defer you to the message boards to talk
to a wider scope of users for you to make an intelligent consensus from.
My strong suggestions are to buy/add a one micron prefilter to the
likely 5 micron standard. And add a PolyFilter unit after the carbon
chamber. So... at least have 5 micron floss, then 1 micron floss, then
carbon, then PolyFilter, and then your two column DI. Add special
filters as necessary (phosphate, silicate, etc).>
and please
recommend a trustworthy manufacturer for each system...
Thanks, Knef
<best regards, Anthony> RO units
Hello,
<cheers,
Anthony Calfo in your service>
I am pondering the acquisition of an
RO unit.
<a dreadful choice compared to a deionizer for the sheer
volume of water they waste. Even pressurized $1000 units still have a
ratio no better than 1:1 which means that you will put 100 gallons of
water down the drain for every 100 gallons that you use. Truly shameful
in my opinion. Do read through the archives here on WWM (FAQs, Google
search please)... there is ton of information on this subject with
various perspectives there>
The thing is my marine tank is only 29
gallons, I also have a few freshwater tanks, a two 55s an 80, and a 125
turtle tank. I use tap water treated with prime for the freshies, I'm
sure RO water would help with algae problems in those tanks.
<that
is not necessarily true... may even be completely wrong. Unless you have
tested your tap water and know it to be the source of your nutrient
accumulation problem (the cause of the algae)... high phosphates for
example. Else, you simply have a nutrient export problem (overfeeding,
overstocking, lack of protein skimming, carbon not changes often enough,
water changes too small or infrequent, etc)>
From what I have been
reading on your RO FAQs, I would need to store the freshly made RO,
heat, aerate, buffer, and some other stuff.
<yes... for some
freshwater and most all marine application>
Right now I purchase sea
water from the LFS that has been purified for aquarium use, and top off
with distilled water (should I aerate the distilled water before topping
off?).
<yes... all demineralized water should be aerated then
buffered else you waste buffers in the tank or salt mix>
It seems
that my current method would work better for me considering the small
scale that I am working with.
<perhaps>
I suppose if I got an RO
unit I could separate the output into two containers, one for fresh
water and one for marine, and then treat them accordingly from there.
Any thoughts?
<hmmm... using the waste effluent of the RO for
freshwater tanks? Not likely you could even use it all as expensive
hobby grade models are 4 to 7 gallons wasted per 1 good gallon
produced... most are worse especially if your tap water is hard/bad.
Overall... it is a dreadfully wasteful process... do look into
rechargeable two column DI units. They don't waste a drop a nd can be
tempered buffered with a little hard tap water back into the collected
mix for a cheap reconstitution without wasting any water>
On a side
note, your FAQs are great. Wet Web Media is rapidly becoming my only
source for aquarium information. Best Regards, Gage
<thanks kindly
for saying so... best regards, Anthony> R.O. Unit
Hi
Guys,
I hope you are doing well. I had a question regarding reverse
osmosis units. Okay - I currently have a Oceanic 72 gallon bow front and
am planning to upgrade to a 175 gallon bow front. I was just checking
out a killer RO unit from Seachem called the PINNACLE "PLUS" SERIES
REVERSE OSMOSIS UNIT - 100 GPD. This one is around $800 Canadian which
is probably about 55 dollars U.S. (jokes:-) However - I don't know if
you can give product endorsements but I would like to know what you all
thought before I went and made a major investment like that.
<I have
not heard anything good or bad about the units. I do like other Seachem
products and will tell you they probably do not make these in house.
More than likely, someone else makes this and they slap a Seachem label
on it. Very common in this industry.>
Thanks a lot Guys - peace
PS
- do you know of any cheaper ones that are high quality?
<I like and
sell SpectraPure. I do not know if they are any cheaper, though. -Steven
Pro> Re: R.O. UNIT Question
Thanks for the advice! I am
sure that you have saved me a couple hundred dollars at least- I do
appreciate your candor as well, I found it very interesting to know that
companies are outsourcing their manufacturing needs which was something
that I suspected anyways.
<Yes, very common on big, specialized items
like RO units, fluorescent lamps, etc. The equipment and processes to
make such items is expensive and particular.>
I love how they sell
you a product like baking soda in a 35 dollar bottle called "Super pH
Upper" yeah right. I checked the label and it's straight sodium
bicarbonate - I think that more hobbyists need to know about stuff like
this...
<I always like to see what is in the bottle. I tend to stay
away from any product that does not have a list of ingredients.>
PS -
"Super PH Upper is a purely fictional product and any similarity to any
other product is purely coincidental and meant to illustrate the purpose
of this joke - thank you.
<Nice disclaimer. -Steven Pro>
RO/DI Units
In continuing my revamping my salt water attempt, I
am looking at buying a RO/DI unit instead of my "buy a new cartridge
every 50 gallon" tap water purifier.
<A wise choice. An RO unit is
more cost-effective if you have anything over a 30 gallon aquarium.>
What I need to know is this, is there any difference (other than price)
in the units I find in the aquarium magazines and the ones I can buy at
most retail outlets?
<There maybe slight differences in the after
filtration aspect. Many of these, post RO, filter again to change the
taste of the water. This may or may not affect your aquarium.>
They
both claim to do the same thing and are both 5 stage units, but the
retail outlet units are several dollars cheaper.
<Three things, one
you may not even need a 5-stage unit. For most people, purifying tap
water merely takes a simple RO unit. Two, take a look at SpectraPure. We
have a link for them from www.WetWebMedia.com. This is the brand that I
sell to my customers. They are high quality and relatively inexpensive.
And three, you may want to consider a DI only unit. The most popular one
is from Germany, called a Kati-Ani. Please archive WWM for the
discussion on both.>
Thanks, Robert
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Kati/Ani units
Hi everybody-
Would you happen to know the
difference between the 3 size Kati/Ani units?
<They are the same,
just larger.>
There is a 2, 5, and 10.
<There is also a 1, just no
longer available from Petwarehouse/Drs. Foster & Smith.>
Is it just
that the resins will last longer in the bigger ones?
<Yes, longer
between recharges.>
If so, do you know an average on how long each
size would last?
<Depends exclusively on your water, but for
reference I have a 2 size model and get easily over 200 gallons between
recharges.>
Or just a comparison between the three with the same
quality water.
<If theoretically the 1 would yield 100 gallons of
pure water, the 2 would be good for 200, the 5 for 500 and so on.>
I
have a 125 FOWLR tank. Is there a size that you would recommend?
<The
bigger the better.>
There is quite a price difference between the
sizes.
<The 5 should be 2.5 times the 2 and so forth.>
Thank you
in advance. Dennis
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> RO/DI
Recommendation
Bob:
<Steven Pro in this morning.>
Reading
your web site every night. I currently have an 80 gallon salt fish tank
for 15 years. Now putting together 125 reef tank. What RO/DI brand and
model do you recommend?
<I prefer SpectraPure units. Usually I
recommend just straight RO units, not a RO/DI. I do not like the
wastefulness of mixed bed DI units.>
I read you recommended
SpectraPure CSP-35 or CSP-60.
<These are two different versions of
the same product line. You need to determine your water needs to
identify the gpd rating, 33 or 60 gpd.>
I called the company today
and they recommended SP2000-60 for $417 with drinking water kit for
$170.
<This unit make lab grade water. A bit overkill for aquarium
applications.>
Seems expensive compared to others I have seen on the
web.
<The high-end unit plus the drinking water kit is what is making
it so expensive in comparison. A plain CSP-60 will work just fine. You
can decide if you want the drinking water kit or not.>
Thanks, Steve
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Re: Funky stuff in water for
change
Thanks for the quick reply. With regards to the water
hardness, and R/O, I have a question. I've read everything I could find
about R/O and water softeners. It seem like most people won't make a
stand on the softener portion.
<I'm not most people <G>, I have an
opinion about most everything...heehee. Softeners (ion exchange) are
inappropriate for most aquariums unless the water change schedule is
heavy. They all exchange one thing for another and the residual
chlorides from sodium or potassium salts accumulate in the aquarium and
skew the water chemistry (can wreak havoc with the ALK dynamic). I
generally do not recommend them. They are useful for Discus and other
fishes that prefer soft water and several times weekly water changes>
I do have a water softener and R/0 unit. How do you feel about
softeners? Mine uses potassium instead of salt. Is one system better
than the other? Is either one dangerous?
<potentially both as per
above>
The potassium model was much more money. I notice that when I
water my yard with it, it dried it out (burned it) so I bypass it for
watering.
<I would recommend the RO unit instead and reconstitute it
sufficiently to make it stable for your fishes>
After the wife, kids,
and dog are done I'm luck to get a few cups of R/O water a day. What are
your thoughts on water after the softener, before the R/O?
<wouldn't
use it>
Also, don't R/O remove all trace elements too?
<for
saltwater use, RO is fine to have a consistent pure base to start with,
then aerate, buffer and salt. Please read through our archives with a
keyword search on Ro or DI water. The topic has been covered in the FAQs
extensively>
Thanks again for your time, Mike
<best regards,
Anthony> RO System
Bryan again, I have a question on RO
units. IYO, what is/are the best RO units out there.
<I like
SpectraPure.>
Looking at buying a new, and everyone claims to be the
best. Also anything to look for or look out for?
<I generally do not
sell or deem necessary the mixed bed DI cartridges found in the RO/DI
units. A regular RO unit maintained well with decent tapwater will serve
most people well.>
Thanks, Bryan
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Filtration
I am going to be purchasing 2 things for my reef, a
Reverse Osmosis filter and a better protein skimmer. I have a very bad
case of algae in my reef now but the animals don't seen to be harmed
which should I purchase first? My old skimmer is a Cheap Sea clone.
<<If it were me... the R.O. device... best/better to start out with good
water from the start. Bob Fenner>> Skimmer or RO/DI ?
If
you had a 55 gallon FO tank with a sump would you buy a protein skimmer
or a DI\RO unit. I have a few pieces of dead coral with:
2
Damsels
2 Clown fish
1 Fox face
1 Naso tang
1 Yellow tank
1 Imperator Angel
all levels are great but I get that brown algae
growing every two or three weeks because I use tap water for both
top off water and water changes. I do a 10% water change every two
weeks and vacuum the gravel but the diatoms, of course, still come
back. Now, I have heard that a good protein skimmer or a DI/RO unit will
help with this. I was thinking of getting the Kent Marine Maxima
RO/Deionization Unit or the Berlin Venturi Skimmer. So which one would
you buy?
<<No doubt about it... the skimmer. If your water is too
bunk for aquarium use... you ought to not drink or cook with it... Look
into an R.O. device going forward for all these purposes. Bob Fenner>>
Water purifier
Hi Bob!
I'm looking into purchasing a water
purifier (RO/DI) unit but I'm not sure what to look for. My goal is to
use this unit with a storage tank for drinking water and a connection so
I can fill a 5gal bucket for water changes. The tank is a 50 gal reef so
I'm concerned with silicates, etc.
Any ideas on a brand name and/or
system components to look for?
Thank you for your help!! Michael Ruff
<<For me, I'd just buy an inexpensive consumer unit (this is what I
use), and utilize the usual in-line carbon/D.E. filters ahead of it...
These can be purchased over the Net as well as the big department
stores. Fittings, tubing and valves for diverting the produced cleaner
water, diverting the "waste water" (as in to your pond, lawn...) can be
purchased there as well.
Bob Fenner>> RO/DI
Bob,
I
just read through the FAQ's and you mentioned using a unit from Home
Depot. REALLY!? I'm looking for a unit (CHEAP!) myself and was wondering
if you tested the water after it runs through? What were your results?
Is maintenance/membrane replacement the same as "hobby" models? Could
you recommend at specific model you have first-hand experience with?
Thanks, Tony
<Yes, these units are 99 percent plus as useful as the
ones "remarketed" for aquarium use (they are, no surprise, made by the
same manufacturers)... maintenance of these units is identical... and
any/all models will do, I assure you... Don't recall the brands, models
I've purchased, but do use "just" the home use type myself. Bob Fenner>
RO
Dear Mr. Fenner: Any recommendations on a small-capacity RO
unit for a reef tank?
<Definitely. Just one of the inexpensive units
from a large "home improvement" warehouse or internet/mail-order
equivalent. This is what I/we use for drinking, cooking, pet-fish use
and it/they are fine. Easy to install, use... and handy (no lugging,
driving)... and low cost (less than a penny a gallon)...
Bob Fenner>
Tap water purifier
I have been feeling guilty about setting up a
new reef tank when there is so much to be done with the old one. It is
only a ten gallon so its kind of hard to get excited about it but I feel
a responsibility to the animals I keep.
<This adds up?>
I have
been battling blue green algae for the entire life of the tank(4 months
or so). I am blaming the algae on some or all of these factors:
1. I
use city water which I just let sit around a couple of days to get rid
of chlorine
<It's chloramine... takes about a week to dissipate>
2.My lights come on at 10 in the morning to ten at night which gives
them about 3 hours of natural sunlight
3. I have no skimmer-would
like to a get a Prizm but all money must go for the cause (55 gallon
reef)
<Then close down the ten>
4.Occasionally my mother thinks
the fish look hungry and feeds them more then usual (am working on
this). Who dun it?
<You... apathy, lack of
planning/execution/commitment, poor maintenance, too small a system,
instability... Don't place blame on your mother... you could hide the
foods, explain why she should not feed... Empathy, but no sympathy from
me>
I found a very great site on reefs called reef sources
(reefsources.itgo.com)
<this URL doesn't open...>
which clearly
tells your how to set up a reef. The guy who made the site recommends a
"tapwater purifier by aquarium pharmaceuticals". Its cheaper then RO and
I would like to use it for my ten gallon and my 55 gallon. What do you
think? Will it work for my reef or just for the ten gallon.
<Cheaper
up front for okay water conditioning... much more money per gallon in
the long term... Okay for a ten gallon, perhaps a ten and fifty five...
do the math... do you need cleaner water from your starting source for
pet-fish? For household use? Reverse osmosis is cheaper, better for
hundreds of gallons a month use>
Finally can I use my Tidepool wet
dry on my reef or would you defiantly use macroalgae and rock? I am
really enjoying this hobby and am even thinking about learning to scuba
dive.
<I'd use both. Definitely take up diving... you will greatly
benefit from the added awareness, discipline, exercise.>
Thanks in
advance, Andrew
<Be chatting my impetuous friend. Bob Fenner,
www.wetwebmedia.com>
PS I just bought the Marine Atlas and I noticed
that a lot of European tanks have TONS of macroalgae in them. is this
how European reefers get away with wet dry filters? Re: tap
water purifier
The correct url for reef sources is:
reefsources.itgo.com/features/index.html
Can I use less live rock if
I use the wet dry filter?
<Very nice site, content and format wise...
will add to the WWM links pages today. Thank you for this. And yes, same
live rock... even small bits, mucky mud at the bottom of the box it
is/was shipped in. Bob Fenner> Re: tap water purifier
Could you clarify your answer?
<I'll certainly try>
I was
thinking that maybe since the rock and wet dry filter do sort of the
same process
<Not really... read over the marine filtration areas of
the site: www.WetWebMedia.com.... the W/D likely acts as a mechanical
filter, nitrification source... aerator... out gasser... the LR as a
denitrifying source...>
maybe I could use a little less live rock to
save a little money. I could buy more for looks at the LFS.
<For
larger volume deals, like 40-45 pounds, look for whole box deals from
e-tailers... A few of them are listed on the WWM links pages>
I only
need water treatment for my pet fish(65 gallons total) so would you
recommend a RO or a Tap water purifier? Could you recommend a good RO?
<See the water treatment articles and FAQs pages on the WWM site>
It
is going to be a tight squeeze to fit all the wet dry and the macro
algae sump in the stand, leaving no room for things like a calcium
reactor.
Thanks in advance, Andrew
<Many things to consider,
engineer. Bob Fenner> Re: Reverse Osmosis flush water
Thank you for your quick response and comprehendible answer. Do you know
anything about Coralife ROs?
<A little... they're made by other
people... just re-labeled>
I think I would rather have a complete RO
instead of a barebones unit. Will my reef be fine with a cellulose
triacetate membrane for the RO?
<Yes, this is what the vast majority
of R.O. units utilize... there is a plant that makes them in northern
San Diego, where we live.>
I am looking into a Coralife CTA 24 gallon
a day unit. The main factor I'm concerned about is waste water. I would
not like to spend $140 for something that produces 10 gallons of waste
water for every one gallon of pure water.
<This flush water ration
seems a bit high... should be more like 4 gallons per 1 made... and BTW,
you don't need to "throw away" that flush water... we vent ours to the
swimming pool or Koi pond on different properties...>
On the fish,
you don't think that 7 fish is too much?
<Umm, seven fish? Too much?
Sorry... read through a couple of hundred messages a day, besides
sleeping, cooking and cleaning... don't recall size, shape, livestock
plan...>
I do plan on establishing macroalgae and purchasing a UV
sterilizer before I add the powder blue tang along with reading more
about this beautiful species. Sorry for the boring questions about
water, Andrew
<Keep studying my friend. When you are ready, you will
know. Bob Fenner> Water Purification (gear choices)
Hi
again and thanks for the help with my previous questions.
I ended up
fitting my 40G with a CF lighting unit -- one blue, one 10,000K.
The
question of the day is about water purification! :-)
As mentioned, I
am in the process of setting up a reef/coral/invert + fish tank. I'm
breaking in the tank right now and have everything running with the
equipment on + substrate + live rock. I'm almost one week in and will
wait/suffer/die-of-boredom about another two before intentionally
putting anything live into the tank.
<You won't die of boredom...
observe what is going on in your system>
What worries me is that
corals and inverts tend to like/need really good water quality.
Currently I'm just using tap from the sink (city water).
I'm looking
into some RO and RO/DI units and am not really sure what to get.
As
far as the RO units go, 2, 3, 4, and 5 stage units seem to be the most
common and are not too far apart in price.
As far as the stages are
concerned, what would you recommend?
<To investigate further the
"quality" of your tapwater... if it's fine for you to drink, use for
cooking, it is likely fine for pet-fish use>
Also would you recommend
a RO unit with DI capabilities, or to just stick with a plain RO unit?
<The plain... is what I/we use or just tap>
I've also noticed that
the plain RO units for home and the aquarium seem unsettlingly similar,
are they in fact the same or close enough?
<They are for the most
part identical... the trade re-labels these...>
Here are the specs
for a system that I am currently looking at. Please take a look at them
and let me know if they are adequate, under kill, overkill, or
recommended...
Manufacturer: Unknown
Stages: 5
Capacity: 50 GPD
Rejection: Up to 99%
Stage 1: 50 m sediment prefilter
Stage 2: 1 m
sediment prefilter
Stage 3: 10 m active carbon
Stage 4: TFT (up to
99% rejection)
Stage 5: De-Ionizer
Thanks again for your time and
help in my quest to not kill the little fishies and to be a responsible
aquarist! Stan
<This unit is way "overkill" but certainly will
work... a prefilter, carbon and tris membrane is really all you
need/want... no de-ionizer necessary. Bob Fenner... who often wonders,
do folks consider all the chemicals added from livestock, dissolving
rock, substrate, foods, the air...> Purifying Water
Dear
Bob,
My wife and I thoroughly enjoy your website and appreciated your
help on our question regarding cycling live rock. We now turn our
attention to water
purifying and would appreciate your input.
<A
pleasure my friend>
We have been using the Tap Water Purifier (TWP)
from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals since we began this hobby a few months
ago. We get only about 15 to 20 gallons from the units and so are paying
a premium for this water. We also noticed that nitrite is present in the
resulting water.
<Yes... you should investigate a reverse osmosis
unit for your pet-fish use as well as drinking and cooking>
We read
your articles on water purifying and were elated to hear of a more
economical method of purifying water. After reading the articles and the
FAQs, I would like to make sure I understood your process correctly. So
here's what I think is your process for purifying tap water. Please
correct any misunderstandings:
1. Prepare, ahead of time, a solution
of 1 pound Sodium thiosulfate in 1/2 gallon water. (I'm using half of
your recipe).
2. Pour 15 gallons of tap water into a Rubbermaid
rectangular container.
3. Treat the 15 gallons of water with 30 drops
of the Sodium thiosulfate solution and let sit for an hour. (We have
very bad tap water).
<Bad?>
4. Load an Eheim canister filter with
high-quality activated carbon and pump the treated 15 gallons through
the canister and into the Rubbermaid Brute trash can.
5. In the Brute
container, mix the salt.
6. Place a power head and heater in the
Brute container, turn them on, close the lid, and let them run for a
week or more.
Any corrections/improvements?
<Depending on what you
mean by "bad"... I would look into RO...>
How often should we replace
the carbon in the canister filter?
<Depends once again on what you
are trying to remove by its use... easy enough to get/use test kits for
whatever these materials are... and switch out the carbon when
exhausted... by testing for same>
As we said, it was great to learn
of a more economical means of purifying tap water. We highly value your
articles and FAQs, and constantly read the website.
<Thank you again.
Higher praise, result I do not hope for. Bob Fenner>
Best regards,
Michael and Lynn Rivera Purifying Water
Bob,
My wife
and I are always amazed at your quick response and great advice.
<I
key quickly>
As for your suggestion regarding a RO unit, our water in
this area is very, very expensive. I understand that the RO unit wastes
about 10 gallons for each 1 gallon of pure water. The wasted water is
not good for drinking, cooking, or any other human consumption. Is this
correct?
<Good question... there are some units that are this
profligate, but many produce a gallon of water by venting three or four
to "waste"... and this water is fine for... irrigation, a fish pond...
perhaps both... And this is not your only option. There is a fabulous
"Kold-Steril" filter made by Poly-Bio-Marine (link on the
www.WetWebMedia.com links page), that wastes no water at all... Do check
your water bill... source water is very inexpensive (about $1.80 here in
Southern California per hcf/hundred cubic feet, about 748 gallons, less
than 2 and a half cents a gallon... compared with driving, buying and
hauling bottled water? R.O. is a bargain.>
If I cannot use a RO, any
suggestions on what I should be testing for after running the Sodium
thiosulfate treated water through the canister filter?
<Whatever
concerns you... Please try to understand my hesitation here... I don't
know what's "in your water" that is problematical... If it's "excess"
sanitizer, you may want to get/use a chloramine test kit for
instance...>
Again, we highly value your opinion and really want to
get this right before moving on. Best regards, Michael and Lynn Rivera
<Do keep investigating, chatting with your water district, fellow
consumers... till you think/feel you know enough to decide... the vast
majority of cases/circumstances are best dealt with by RO technology.
Bob Fenner> Re: Water Filtration
You recommend the
"fabulous "Kold-Steril" filter made by Poly-Bio-Marine" over standard RO
filters? I need to order one this week and would like your suggestion.
This filter will be used to mix salt water and for cooking/drinking.
<Yes... given no further information on your source water content, cost.
Bob Fenner>
Thanks R/O systems for saltwater
Hi Mr.
Fenner,
I have one question today. I've started looking at
manufacturers websites, and comparing R/O systems.
<Good practice>
I've also looked at m.o.p.s.com (the Canadian wholesaler since I live in
Montreal). I want to compare these with the types you can buy at Home
depot type stores, because I've read the FAQs on your site, and you say
they are o.k. to use (basically the same, only marketed, and packaged
different for the aquarium industry).
<To a very large extent, yes.
In point of fact I use a HD sourced unit myself>
What exactly should
it specify on the package that it can filter? My knowledgeable reef-wise
friend says the Home Depot styles are not good enough because there is
one thing they don't do as compared to the ones specifically designed
for aquarium use. He did not specify what, but I just wanted to hear
your take on this.
<Bizarre... Well there are two things wrong with
this person's declared opinions... but I won't tell you or him what they
are...>
What brands do you find good if I go with the type for
aquariums?
<Again, look for ease of maintenance, capacity, cost of
replacement membranes and carbon-cartridges... Ask other people in your
"source water" district what they do, and why here. You very likely
don't need added deionization, other particulate pre-filtering... maybe
a change/addition in "storage technology" if you're needing/using lots
(tens of gallons at a time plus) reverse osmosis water. Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance, Greg N., Montreal, Canada. Water
purification
I have a 75 gallon reef aquarium. I'm currently
using the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals tap water purifier. It is advertised
as being able to make 50 - 150 gallons of water depending on water
quality. My water quality must be really bad because I can only purify
10 - 12 gallons before having to buy a new filter.
<Yikes, what?
Have you contacted the fine folks at AP? I will cc your message to their
technical staff>
At around $15 per filter this is getting rather
expensive.
I have a water distiller which I use for my drinking and
cooking water.
<A distiller? Really? I would use a reverse osmosis
device for alls purposes here...>
I have been told by numerous people
that you can't use distilled water because it's too pure and doesn't
have enough oxygen in it.
<Hmm, well, on exposure to the air, gasses
will/do enter distilled water... but it's not economical to use for
aquarium purposes...>
(I'm just repeating what I've been told.) Could
I mix the distilled water with the DI water?
<Yes... or just use
deionized water... or...>
Could I add minerals back to the distilled
water?
<Yes>
Could I aerate it to put oxygen back into it?
<Yes>
Are people just telling me nonsense and I really can use the
distilled water for top off and water changes?
<For topping off
distilled is ideal... not necessary for water changes... but can be
used, definitely>
I do not want to buy a RO unit, since I already
have a distiller. I've been thinking about pre-filtering the water
before I run it through the DI unit.
This should make the resin last
longer.
<Yes... am curious as to what you mean by the TWP resins are
not "lasting"... by what measure? Think there may be something
operatively that you're not doing here. Bob Fenner, WetWebMedia.com>
Charcoal filters aren't as expensive as the DI filters are.
Thanks in
advance for your help in this matter. Michelle H2O filters for
home/reef
Good evening Mr. Fenner.
I’ve been doing some soul
searching and have come to the conclusion that the only way to truly end
my dreaded battle with diatoms is to purchase some form of water
purification system for my home.
<A good "first line" of prevention>
I’d like to tap into your knowledge for a little help with this
decision. I’ve been looking into RO/DI systems for under counter use, as
well as H2O softener systems for the whole house. Is it preferential to
use one system over the other, or is the best benefit found when using
both?
<The RO and or RO/DI is fine for all in my opinion... Most
water softening systems incorporate similar to deionizing resin
technology/strategies... redundant>
Also, I have seen a huge variance
in types of RO/DI systems around. They range from 3-4-5-6 stages, and 25
to 125 GPD output. I’ve seen the best prices, but also the most variance
on a popular auction site. Is there anything to be looking out for as a
quality alarm, or are the systems pretty solid, with just preferences
being a factor (regarding stages)?
<Mainly the latter. A good
all-purpose household unit is fine... really.>
I want the best for my
reef animals, but this is also an investment for the home and family.
Take care and God Bless. Jason Harris
<I understand... we use a
"cheapy" warehouse store unit... and change the carbon pre-filters often
(every couple of thousand gallons)... the RO membranes about every ten
pre-filter changes... Bob Fenner> Domestic Water Softeners
Is it ok to use water in my cichlid aquarium that comes from a domestic
water softener.
<Mmm... depends... on what sorts/species of cichlids
you're talking about... some like Symphysodon (Discus), many South
American Dwarf Cichlids... enjoy very soft water and have a moderate
tolerance for the free sodium that such water conditioning devices
produce... The bulk of the family Cichlidae require or do better with
minerals, salts "added back" by the use of home-made or store-bought
"replacement" supplements. So... Need to know what's already in your
water (you can find out by asking your supplier or having it tested,
testing yourself...), what types of livestock you intend on keeping, and
what, if anything you are going to do to modify the softened water
before using. Bob Fenner> Re: Domestic Water Softeners
Thanks for your response.
I keep African Rift Lake cichlids in a 75
gallon tank. I do not add any supplements to the water I just use it
straight from the tap. I have a ph of 8.5, GH of 11 and KH of 9 (German
degrees).
<Ahh, this should be fine for most all Lake Tanganyika and
Malawi species... though some folks do supplement this quality water as
well>
I have been using non softened water from a tap directly on the
mains supply bypassing the softener. The problem is having to heat up
enough water to get the right temperature. I was thinking of using the
softened water that comes out of the hot tap to save time. I have worked
out that approx 1/4 of the water would be from the hot tap.
<Mmm I
understand... I would develop/use another strategy... the best, and one
commonly utilized by many breeders, is to store, heat the water a few
days ahead of use... with resistant heaters, or with very large volumes,
through contactors with the heated water recirculated through a gas
water heater>
I believe that the salt used in home water softeners is
only used to clean the resins that are in the softeners tank and get
flushed out to the drain during the recharge operation. Is this the
case?
<Mmm, not typically... they're "ion-exchange" types by and
large, with (depending on type of water, resins) more sodium being
flushed in excess quantity with the "softened" product.>
If so then
does that mean that the softened water does not contain extra sodium.
<Yes. Please read: http://www.ianr.unl.edu/pubs/housing/g946.htm>
Thanks for your help. David
<Not all technologies are the same... but
this is the most common case. Bob Fenner> Re: Domestic Water
Softeners
Thanks again for your reply.
I think I will have to
continue to boil the hard water to correct the temperature. I will
enquire with the manufacturer of my home water softener (Waterside) and
ask how it works. You might be interested in the link below which is
where I got my original information from.
http://www.btinternet.com/~aquariumcity/filters/How_Softerners_Work.htm
<Thank you for this... will post to Daily FAQs then on to the Water
Quality sections of our sites. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, David
Water purification and confusion
Hello Bob.
<Hello>
I have
been reading up on the Kold Ster-il purifier by Poly-Bio Marine.
This
seems to me to be a better way to go if one wants to purify their water.
They claim up to 5000 gallons before media replacement is needed and it
doesn't strip the water of minerals. It also has the benefit of being
many more times faster than a RO/DI unit? They also claim it makes great
drinking water. What say you? It sounds good to me?
<This is a very
good product>
Confusion? In November and December issues of FAMA, the
WaterMarc articles leave me with questions about skimming and Ich
outbreaks.
<These are badly written advert.s. Ignore them>
If you
have not read the articles I would like to ask if you would please do
so. The two gentleman being interviewed say some pretty wild and to me
at least, previously unheard of theories about skimming and Ich.
I
figured I would just ask Mr. Fishman himself and see what he says.
<The company is a discredit to the industry. Bob Fenner>
Zimmy
Re: New 55g tank, ro/di water confusion!!! ...
Robert, thank you
for your quick reply!! I am now considering RO unit only rather than
RO/DI after reading your info here, that would save on media. My tap
water GH/kH is very low, pretty soft water, really, but I do have some
problems with diatoms in my freshwater tanks so I do not want to chance
it with the salt tank. You say to not use Kalkwasser, it seems most
people are using this. What two-part supplement will be okay for me
(B-Ionic??)
<A fine and much better choice than calcium hydroxide>
and will be reasonably priced?
<Shop about... on the Net>
I am
very interested in anemones, I have Eric Borneman's book Aquarium Corals
and am finding it very helpful in understanding corals, can you
recommend a book on anemones?
<Mmm, volume 2 of The Modern Coral Reef
Aquarium by Sven Fossa and Alf Nilsen, Allen and Fautin's Anemonefish
book, ditto for Joyce Wilkerson's... and a cursory reading of the
anecdotal accounts archived on the Breeder's Registry on the Net>
I
wasn't a big fan of Daphne's' book Clownfishes and their host anemones,
maybe you can recommend an alternative.
<Oh!>
Thank you for your
time, your help is greatly appreciated. Also, can you tell me if a
long-nosed butterfly fish would be an impractical choice for a 55g reef
tank? After reading your reef stocking section I am thinking maybe so.
Thanks, Angela.
<A good choice though this is a bare minimum size
system for Forcipigers. Bob Fenner> Questions: Silicate
removal, tapwater treatment
Hi Anthony,
<Good morning, my
friend>
Thanks for the fast response. This is a follow up of the
questions that I asked earlier:
I keep feather and grape Caulerpa.
Will they absorb silicates?
<not at all to the extent that I suspect
you, like most folks, will desire. More so, they will exude far many
more noxious compounds that at best inhibit water clarity as bad or
worse than any other biological byproduct of aquariology...and at worst
literally inhibit the growth of some corals (not all, of course...some
species are better adapted and seemingly unfazed)>
Regarding the
control inflow source water with chemical media if necessary... What do
you think of the tap water purifier by Aquarium Pharmaceutical Inc?
<I think it is the long way around the barn, so to speak. For what you
are likely to spend on replacement cartridges in less than two years,
you can easily afford a rechargeable two column de-ionizer that is a
more responsible choice that also saves you money (like the KATI/ANI
brand units). Quite frankly, I resent the mixed bed resin products that
deliberately make it inconvenient for an aquarist to reuse an entirely
rechargeable and renewable resource (the resin if it were separated as
Cation and Anion instead of mixed in cartridges as they often are). It
seems like an ironic waste in an industry that is founded on empathy and
admiration for the natural environment. Anthony Calfo> Water to
buy in containers of 1 gallon at a local store nationwide
Is this
unit better than the MPDI-35?
<Yes>
How long to make-up gallons of
water?
<All RO unit are labeled by how many gallons they will make in
a day. CSP-35 is 35 gallons in 24 hours under the best case scenario.>
Does it hook up to a hose or something?
<It will come with hose
fitting.>
How long does it last? Thanks!
<The prefilters generally
last about one year. The membrane will last 2-5 years depending on your
water, if you change the prefilters on time, etc. -Steven Pro>
Re: water to buy in containers of 1 gallon at a local store nationwide
Let me try again as my wife will not let me do an RO unit in our home:
<Why is this? Buying your own RO will save you money over buying someone
else's RO water. RO unit can be connected and disconnected to any faucet
with an adapter and the unit themselves are not that big. The biggest
drawback is whatever you hold the water in temporarily.>
[1] Please
tell me the name of a nationwide company that sells by the gallon
container RO water, DI water, Spring water or Distilled water acceptable
for my 125 g tank? Thanks for your help please, bcr 2/8/2002
<Do not
know of any nationwide company like that. Try a local bottle water
supplier, like Culligan. Spring and distilled and no good. Only RO or
DI.>
[2] I have a 12 year old 125 gallon reef tank, with a 30 g sump.
My livestock includes: 11 Fish: red sea purple tang, Foxface, pair of
maroon clown white stripe, long nose hawkfish, 2 marine catfish,
lawnmower blenny, 3 domino damsels. Inverts: allot of mushrooms [red,
green, metallic green, blue], colt coral, flower pot, 2 anemones, 2
brains, a clam, a bunch of polyps, leather coral, a bunch of shrimp,
several cucumbers, Gorgonian, red chili coral; Equipment: 30 gallon sump
with EV150 protein skimmer with a 2500 Rio powerhead, and a return
ViaAqua 4900 powerhead. Lights: 3 VHO Coralife 60 inch bulbs with 140
watts each, 2 are 10,000 K, the other actinic; 2 65 watt actinic power
packs for a total 550 watts or 4 watts per gallon. Circulation in the
125 g tank is from 2 powerheads [a Otto 2000, and a 1700 Rio]. Live
rock: 150 LBS Tonga, Fiji, Marshall Island]. Live sand: 2-3 inches total
mixed with about 1 inch of Aragamite coral. Additives I use are mostly
Kent Marine products Strontium & Moly, Iodine, Phytoplex, Micro-Vert,
salt, Lugol's solution, Kalkwasser, and Liquid Calcium. Thanks ! -John
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Re: water to buy in containers
of 1 gallon at a local store nationwide
Which is the best RO Or
DI?
<DI water is higher quality, but not always needed.>
WATER
unit AND WHICH company do I buy it from and what size do I need [ e.g.
how much water do I need to change and how often for the 125 g tank?
thanks
<I like SpectraPure, http://www.spectrapure.com/. The CSP-35
or 60 should be good for a 125 gallon tank.> Spring water: is
it ok to use?
Spring water: Is it ok to use in 125 g reef tank?
<Perhaps... matters what sort of livestock... your desires, what the
make-up of the water is.>
RO water or DI water is too hard to do in
our home, unless it comes in 1 gallon containers made by some company
[if so name please].
Help please, John
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm and the linked files beyond.
Bob Fenner> Is Spring water ok for my 125 g reef tank?
Hello Bob,
<You actually have Steven Pro today. I am one of the WWM
crew that helps out answering some of the daily questions.>
I have 2
questions please for your attention: [1] Spring water: is it ok to use
it completely in my 12 year old 125 gallon reef tank, for water changes
as well as replacing evaporated water loss?
<Spring water is just
that. Water that comes from a spring and makes no claims about being
pure. Possibly no better for your tank than tapwater.>
My livestock
includes: 11 Fish: red sea purple tang, Foxface, pair of maroon clown
white stripe, long nose hawkfish, 2 marine catfish, lawnmower blenny, 3
domino damsels. Inverts: allot of mushrooms [red, green, metallic green,
blue], colt coral, flower pot, 2 anemones,
<How long have you had the
Goniopora and anemones? Neither are very hardy and I was wondering what
you were doing to keep them alive. Most seem to die off after about one
year. Truly tragic.>
2 brains, a clam, a bunch of polyps, leather
coral, a bunch of shrimp, several cucumbers, gorgonian, red chili coral;
Equipment: 30 gallon sump with EV150 protein skimmer with a 2500 Rio
powerhead, and a return ViaAqua 4900 powerhead. Lights: 3 VHO Coralife
60 inch bulbs with 140 watts each, 2 are 10,000 K, the other actinic; 2
65 watt actinic power packs for a total of 4 watts per gallon. 125 g
tank has circulation from 2 powerheads [a Otto 2000 and a 1700 Rio].
Live rock: 150 LBS [Tonga, Fiji, Marshall island]. Live sand: 2-3 inches
total mixed with about 1 inch of Aragamite coral. Additives I use are
all Kent Marine products Strontium & Moly, Iodine, Phytoplex,
Micro-Vert, salt, Lugol's solution, Kalkwasser, and Liquid Calcium.
[2] Please tell me the name of a nationwide company that sells RO water,
DI water, or Spring water acceptable for my 125 g tank?
<I like
Spectrapure brand RO's. You can probably find a local sales company from
the Spectrapure webpage, http://www.spectrapure.com/.>
Thanks for
your help please, bcr
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> CSP 60
or 35?
Will this set up on the bathroom sink area while it does
its things of say 15 gallons on the days I do the water change? Is it
moveable? Can I store it in the bathroom closet when not being used?
<Yes, yes, and yes>
CSP 60 only costs a little more than the 35,
should that be one I buy?
<I would definitely go for the larger unit.
I will give you another tip. Buy a garbage can (that you only use for
the tank) that comes with four wheel on the bottom. The kind that
cleaning people use in office buildings. You can buy these at Home
Depots. They are great for holding water and far easier to move around
than carrying buckets. A pump with hose would be another useful tool to
pump the new water from the bucket up into the tank. -Steven Pro>
Tap water Purifier
The Tap water Purifier is that an option here
for me if I am only going to do 15 gallons per week?
<It will cost
you more money over the long term in replacement filters. -Steven Pro>
Re: CSP 60 or 35?
Ss the water quality the same or equal with
either unit?
<Similar. You can begin your education here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm -Steven Pro> RO or
RO/DI
I have a few questions about RO and RO/DI units.
1. Do I
need RO/DI? Will RO be just as good? I want the best for the fish and
inverts.
<R/O wastes a lot of water.. plain DI would be best. Combo
if your water is really bad>
2. I have read that you should not turn
off RO units, turning them off will decrease the filters life. If this
is true, What about RO/DI units?
<no experience and dubious if the
units are flushed regularly>
3. I have also been told that RO waste a
lot of water, does RO/DI?
<yes... an obscene amount>
4. If I
purchase a Rubbermaid can with lid, how will I be certain that no ill
chemicals will be leaching into the water being stored from RO or RO/DI?
<they are commonly used safely but come with no guarantees>
5. How
long can I store RO or RO/DI water in a rubber maid with lid?
<aerated and dark for weeks>
6. I have seen attachments for drinking
water on RO units, is there a way of getting an attachment to work with
RO/DI units?
<no idea... please check with mfg>
7. Which units
would you recommend for a 120-gallon marine tank? I Will eventually be
adding inverts and fish.
<I like the Kati Ani brand DI units>
I
have been doing a great deal of reading on your site and others, but I
am having no luck finding these answers. Your direction and help would
be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Jesse
<Best regards, Anthony>
Re: Ecosystem 40m filter and water quality
Bob,
Close!
Mega-ohms. The measurement of resistively (the reciprocal [1/x] of
conductivity.) the water would be approx. 0.0561 microSiemens of
conductivity after the high vacuum degasification. Independent D.I.
testing is done daily, both online and manually.
<Ahh! Yes>
The
water is far better than good enough to make microchips on wafers; I
thought it would be good enough to put in the tank. Maybe the
degasification process could deprive the coral of adequate o2 and shock
the brain coral.
<Yes... but not if only a portion of water changed
out... or if the new is adequately stored, and aerated ahead of use... a
very good practice. Please read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm>
I'll go get some good
R.O. to be sure.
<A cheapy home unit would/will be fine.>
Thanks
for the great help. jS
<You're welcome. Bob Fenner>
RO Water
I worship your wisdom. I must admit I'm on your site
quite a bit and have learned a lot. I thank you. I tend to follow your
(and Calfo w/corals) recommendations. I do weekly water changes(5 gals
for a 45 tank). I have been adding corals w/ success (so far) and would
eventually like to have a maxima/crocea clam, leaning more towards the
crocea. I am fearful I may not be able to suit its needs. I have 250MH
and 110PC lighting. I add calcium (Kalk) strontium and very little
iodine via drip overnight. My testing has been pretty good, Cal around
400, PH 8.2, ALK 12.5, very low if any nitrate, etc., also very stable
in PH/ALK readings. Phosphate and Chlorine is my concern. My tap
water-straight form the faucet-has .17 phosphate level. I seem to obtain
a .3 to .6 in the tank. I'm waiting on a chorine test so that is
questionable.
I use Chemi pure, Polyfilter (it's a tan /yellow brown
color when in need of change), and an Aqua C Remora skimmer. We pay for
our H2O and RO wastes so much. Barry at
ClamsDirect stated he highly rec.s RO/DI for clams. Do you think I could
get away with just a 2 stage from home depot? My husband already
complains about the time I take between the tank and you (site). I
presented the RO issue to him and he does not want to waste the water
etc. I read your facts and realize I do need to consider chlorine and
possibly other pollutants I can't test for but any suggestions from you
would be highly appreciated. Sincerely, Sharon
<Sharon, the company
that produces the PolyFilter also has a cold sterilization system with
no waste water. You might want to do a search on that. I'm also thinking
if you had a 10 gallon tank and ran your makeup water through a hang on
power filter with a Polyfilter pad for 24 hours, I would certainly think
any pollutants would be removed from the water including phosphate.
James (Salty Dog)> RO/DI Follow-up - Problem Solved?
THANK YOU, I did not know the two stage filters waste water too. Yes,
the waste water is the problem. I am going with the 10 gal w/ poly
filter and I'll get a filter for the faucet like Pur/ Brita. THANKS
AGAIN
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> RO Water
I forgot to mention I have read facts and your recommendations on H2O.
I have no silicate and I do mix up the water a week in advance. Also,
according to our water co. and given we had a water line break, our
chlorine is quite low (I do intend and waiting on my own testing). In
fact, they told me it was not a break since the way they test is by a
chlorine test. They told me it was a stream until I brought them in my
garage to hear the noise. They were surprised and may be due to us
living at the bottom of a steep hill. I also read about the Kold Steril
but wondering if this is necessary given your fact on the two stage
cheaper route. I just don't want to buy the two stage and then have to
upgrade. I thank you and sorry for the lengthy request. THANKS AGAIN!
<I thought your husband didn't want you to use RO because of the waste
water. Anyway, most two stage units work with chlorinated water only,
removing about 90% of most pollutants and 50/70% of existing nitrate.
The chlorine prevents mold and bacteria from developing in the membrane.
The choice is yours. James (Salty Dog)>
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