|
| |
|
FAQs on Tap water Filtration: Reverse Osmosis,
Deionized, Distilled Water... 6
Related FAQs: RO/DI & Distilled Water 1, RO/DI
& Distilled Water 2, RO/DI & Distilled
Water 3, RO/DI & Distilled Water 4, RO/DI
& Distilled Water 5, RO/DI & Distilled Water
7, Rationale, Selection,
For Commercial/Large Output,
RO Water Storage, RO
Water Treatment, Maintenance/Repair,
Deionizing Source
Water Filtration, Kati-Ani DI Units,
Kold-Steril Units,
Water
Changes, Water Make-up, Nitrates,
Related Articles: Water Purification Using
Reverse Osmosis,
Reverse
Osmosis, A Multipurpose Tool By Mark E. Evans,
Water Changes, Water
Quality, Synthetic or Natural Seawater,
Nitrates,
|
|
Conditioning RO/DI Water 08/26/05
I have a 55 gallon saltwater aquarium set up for 2 yrs now. I just
purchased a ro/di system and want to know what do I need to do to water
before I put in tank? <<Congratulations. IMO, RO/DI systems are one of
the best investments you can make. The water from the RO/DI unit can be
used directly as top-off water. You can also use it for water changes.
Just mix with salt and age.>> I was told to use Kalkwasser but not sure
about how to use it. <<Kalkwasser is made by adding quicklime or lime
to water. The Kalkwasser solution is then added to a system as top-off
water or in dosing systems. Using Kalkwasser is one method to supplement
calcium and alkalinity (carbonate) to your system. There are several
reasons to use Kalkwasser: supplement calcium (reef life use calcium so
in a closed system with stony corals, calcium is being depleted), raise
the alkalinity to buffer the pH in the system and precipitate out
phosphate (which is good for algae and bad for reef keepers). There is
lots of material here on this topic. Please search and read up on these
topics: Kalkwasser, Kalkwasser slurry and top-off systems.>> I was also
told by separate source to use Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH. Will the
Superbuffer be sufficient to use. <<Since you are asking about both
Kalkwasser and Kent's Superbuffer, I'm guessing that you have an issue
with alkalinity and pH. There are pros and cons associated with using
Kalkwasser versus a product like Kent Superbuffer. Considerations include
cost and simplicity. Using Superbuffer is simple but in the long wrong,
more expensive than Kalkwasser or Kalkwasser slurry. Kalkwasser dosing
systems can be fairly simple or more complex and of course the initial
cost varies. Kalkwasser slurry is very simple but not for everyone.
Search and read up on Kalkwasser slurry, top-off systems, dosing
systems, Nurce, Nilsen Reactor.>> Of course I know to get salinity
right. <<Not a worry. Getting the salinity right is what you already
do when changing water. The only difference is you will be using better
water in your water changes.>> This ro/di has me all thrown off some,
how soon can I add this water to tank. Can I add it as soon as I add
buffer and get salt and temp right?<< I hope I have cleared up some of
your confusion. Again, RO/DI water is great for replacing water
that has evaporated from your system. As make-up water, it goes directly
into the tank without mixing salt or buffering. For water changes, RO/DI
is much better than tap water. Do what you already do and mix the salt
water and let it age before doing the water change. Don't add anything
to it. Finally, there are many ways to address alkalinity and pH
issues. Don't forget to read up and understand why alkalinity and pH
are important to your system. Good luck and cheers - Ted>>
Re: Conditioning RO/DI Water 08/26/05
I have no pH or alkalinity problem. I have had nitrate and brown diatom
problems.
<<Using RO/DI water is one of the first things to do to combat algae and diatom
problems.>> What do you mean by age water? <<Unless you are dealing with some
kind of tank emergency and you don't have the opportunity to age the water you
should mix up saltwater to the correct specific gravity and temperature and
aerate/circulate it for a day or so before putting it into your system. The
better salt water mixes contain a buffer so adding a buffer is not necessary.>>
So I can take my RO/DI water and put it directly into the tank at temperature
without adding anything to it? <<I see from my previous answer, I added to your
confusion. Sorry. Yes. Many auto top off systems put RO/DI water directly into
the tank. If the RO/DI water feeds a Nilsen reactor, then the addition of buffer
is unnecessary. On the other hand, if you store the RO/DI water or place it into
a reservoir to feed a top off system, you can aerate and/or buffer the water>>
It has very low pH so I figured I would at least use pH buffer for top off
water? <<Many people recommend aerating the water to drive off excess CO2 or
adding a buffer to RO/DI water to raise the pH before use. You can also make your
own buffer using washing and baking soda. Search WWM for more information.
Cheers - Ted>>
Reg. Dosing Point in a RO Systems 8/25/05
Hi
I just wanted to know few things, if you could help me, on a RO System.
1. What Should be the distance to maintain between two or Three dosing points,
If I am using Antiscalant, Acid And Dechlorination Before the RO
System. Generally I have dosing Pump to Discharge at 4.0 Kg/cm2 Pressure so I
keep the dosing points at The Pre-Ro Micron Filter Inlet Line.
<A foot or so would be my choice>
2. Can I Have the dosing before Dual Media Filter/Pressure Sand Filter.?
<Yes... given your water/source is not "too bad" such that the interaction of
the dosed materials don't cause "too much" precipitation in the filters. Bob
Fenner>
High Phosphate in RO water 8/12/05
Hello everyone, I'm a newbie to saltwater and I recently set up a 155 gallon
reef tank. In this time I've had trouble controlling my phosphate levels. Here
are my specs:
1. 155 gal tank
2. Lightly stocked tank with 1 purple tang, 1 six line wrasse, 1 clown, 1
lawnmower blenny, 2 cleaner shrimps.
3. 2 mushrooms, 2 rocks of yellow polyps, 1 green star polyp.
4. Two overflow boxes, aqua C ev-180 skimmer which produces lots of crap
daily. I use RO/DI water weekly and perform a 10 % water change every week. My
RO system is from Coralife-pure-flo.
4.All water parameters are normal except the phosphate level which is a whopping
1 ppm with the Salifert test!
I thought for the last three months that the levels were high because I was
feeding too much but I wasn't. Sometimes I would actually skip a day so my fish
could graze on the little hair algae I have in the tank. I then thought that my
test kit was wrong, so I bought a new Salifert test kit. Anyways, I decided to
test my RO/DI water without salt straight from the tube and the phosphate levels
measured 1ppm! I then checked my TAP water
from my faucet and it tested only 0.1 ppm. I retested all my different waters
and the results were the same. I came to the conclusion that it seems like my
unit is leaching out phosphate, is this possible? The RO/DI unit is very new,
I bought it 5 months ago and according to the instructions, the pre-filter needs
to be changed in a months time and the membrane should last another 6
months. So I still have time for change. Any thoughts? Nilesh <This is an
easy one! Activated carbon is made porous in the manufacturing process by
exposing it to phosphoric acid. If the carbon is not rinsed, it will leach
phosphates in high concentration, much of which will pass through the RO
membrane. If you really want a shock, test the water coming directly out of the
carbon block pre-filter! The simplest option is to replace the pre-filters with
good quality aquarium brand (something other than Coralife!). Prefilters should
be changed every six months to a year, but the membrane itself should last
several years. Best Regards. AdamC.>
R/O-DI...HEAD SPINNING - 08/06/05
Hello Guys,
<<Morning>>
Been reading your site from start for my salt water set up, it's great and I
don't know where I'd be without it.
<<Thank you, glad you find it useful.>>
I am gathering all the components before I start anything. I want to use a DI
unit, my water is well water and very hard. Iron stains all over the
house. But now I read I may be removing helpful things from my water, is this
true? Please help a rookie
in the hobby.
<<No real concern here, the DI unit will provide more help than harm. Just be
sure to buffer the output water before use (simple baking soda...or my personal
fave, 2 parts baking soda to one part Seachem Reef Buffer).>>
THANK-YOU DAN PALMISANO
<<Regards, EricR>>
Buffer Dosage - 08/08/05
Thank you for all your help and fast reply. The buffer you described never
mentioned the water ratio, or do I follow the ratio on the Reef Buffer?
""Just be sure to buffer the output water before use (simple baking
soda...or my personal fave, 2 parts baking soda to one part Seachem Reef
Buffer)""
Thank-you in advance DanP
<<I would start with the dosage recommended for the Reef Buffer alone...test
this for alk...then adjust as needed. EricR>>
Aquascaping / Pump / RO-DI / Rock 7/21/05
Real quick (depending on your perspective), a few unrelated questions in relation to planning a step-up from a 20 gal. to a 90 gal. w/ sump)
1. Is it a bad idea to stack rock directly on the sand bed (obviously,
having the typical uncovered bed area in the tank front) in terms of
structural integrity (since the bed slowly dissolves, etc.), or would it
generally be more advisable to either have the rock placed on the
bottom with sand filled in thereafter around the rock (which I did on my
20 gal., but that seems to require far more rock to obtain nice
elevation) or have the rock basically supported independent of the sand
via a pvc structure (with the first stackable portion of the pvc support
layer being maybe an inch or so under your sand top)?
<Best to not set directly on substrates, but either on the bottom or other
structure that is stably resting on same>
Am I making too
much of the dissolution of the sand in relation to the integrity of the
overall rock structure?
<No, not IMO... have seen some real trouble from the effect of this
dissolving... is more of an issue than most all aquarists realize... A bunch of
carbonaceous material does go into solution... and differentially... That is to
say/warn, that folks ought to add to theirs, perhaps take some out and replace
after a year, then every half year or so going forward>
2. For an external return pump from a sump (let's say, for the sake of
argument, an Iwaki or PanWorld), is it ok to have the pump sit parallel
to the sump as opposed to perpendicular? By parallel, I mean the pump
is connected to the sump with completely straight plumbing directly into
the pump, whereas by perpendicular I mean having a short piece of pipe
exit the sump, hit a 45 degree angle and then hit the pump (you probably
gathered this without my elaboration on "parallel and perpendicular";)).
I would like the to do the later for space saving purposes. I'm
guessing that one turn won't cause much grief in terms of flow to the
pump intake, particularly if the sump output is a 1 inch hole graduated
down to the pumps intake of 3/4 inch. Thoughts?
<Not a big deal either way... of course, given there is no reduction in fitting,
plumbing on the intake side>
3. In general, and in terms of say "typical" city water (realizing
"typical" is a loose, indefinable term), will I gain much benefit from
using an RO/DI unit vs. simply an RO unit?
<Most source waters, no>
Maybe I'm wrong, but long
term it seems as though an RO or RO/DI unit will be more economical than
a DI unit alone (such as the Kati/Ani unit (unless you try to
reconstitute the filter media, which sounds like a major pain in the
rear), a Tap Water Purifier (I've used this on my 20 gallon since the
tank requires modest water changes and top-off).
<You are absolutely correct here. Reverse osmosis is the cheapest, easiest
means>
I think I read in the
FAQs by Steve Pro or someone that the small Kati/Ani unit that sells for
about $139 can knock out about 200 gallons of purified water (high cost
per gallon), and my little Tap Water Purifier can knock out about 30-35
gallons at somewhere around $13 to $15 dollars a filter. Under those
scenarios, and absent trying to renew the media, the little old Tap
Water Purifier is more economical than the Kati/Ani unit. Anyway, I
digress. Do you feel an RO or RO/DI unit will long term be more
economical, all things considered, than just using DI units?
<RO>
How do you
feel about the current line of RO/DI units by Kent and Spectrapure?
<These are fine... know that they're actually not "made" by these companies...>
Lastly, for a 90 gallon tank, what minimum flow rate for such a unit
(i.e., RO) would you advise?
30gpd? 60gpd? 90gpd?
<Even five, ten gpd will do... given storage of the water... I have a small unit
for my pet-fish use>
I know that the
higher the flow the harder your DI at the end will work as more will
make it though the RO, but it seems like a 30 gpd unit will be painfully
slow in producing water, particularly if you don't have it plumbed into
an auto top off / reservoir fill-up scheme (i.e., just brewing water as
you go). I mean, if a 30gpd unit is really about 24gpd, that's
obviously a gallon an hour. How slow is that?!?
<Mmm, not very... really... the oceans were made more slowly...>
My little DI unit can
spit out up to 10 gallons an hour....
4. Lastly, my 20 gal. has some rock in it which has been the subject of
a hair algae battle from time to time. Would it be a mistake to
introduce that rock into any part of a new system, even if in the sump
or refugium? Under what circumstances might you make use of this rock,
if at all, in a new system?
Thanks for your time.
<I wouldn't be dissuaded from using this rock... the "local" conditions...
light, predators, competitors, water quality... dictate the life, demise of the
algae... Bob Fenner>
- RO/DI Evaluation -
I bought this unit and will be receiving it tomorrow, I have found 1
previous post about this unit. It is mfg. Water General and it's cost is
minimal, it is a six stage unit will you please evaluate and let me know what
you think of this unit in comparison to a SpectraPure or Kent Marine.
http://www.watergeneral.com/support/html/RD100.htm
<I'm afraid there just isn't enough information there to form an opinion.
Most RO/DI units are very similar and vary mostly in configuration from
manufacturer to manufacturer. The parts used in each are for most intents and
purposes identical. I'm sure this unit will treat you fine.
Cheers, J -- >
- RO/DI Evaluation, Follow-up -
the question was about the rejection rate in the other post. <I don't see
any information there about rejection rate, but four to five times the output
volume is not unusual.> But I am just curious if this unit is going to give
me quality water for a reef tank. <I'm sure it will be fine. Cheers, J --
>
Confused About Water
Hi Crew,
Thanks for the work that it takes to maintain such a great site. I am only
asking a question because I'm still confused over the water used in
water changes. I have a 46 gallon reef tank with only soft corals
(mushrooms, xenia, leathers). Before I had any coral in the tank, I used
tap water to do my usual 6 or 7 gallon change every two weeks. I try to
get 25% changed per month. However, since adding coral to the tank, I now
purchase RO/DI water from my LFS, which is a pain. I mix the water with
salt in two 5 gallon buckets and add it slowly to my sump. This was fine,
but recently another area LFS told me that somehow RO/DI water becomes
¡°unstable¡± after a certain time and that city tap water (properly
buffered and dechlorinated) is a better approach.
I have no idea what
¡°unstable¡± means.
<Me neither... maybe ask for some specifics from whoever is stating this?>
Another friend who maintains systems around my area
had the city tap water tested twice with no copper or phosphates. He
personally keeps a similar size and type reef tank, and does so very nicely.
Despite all this, your site suggests RO/DI units for reef tanks, but
maybe only the larger systems?
<Mmm, to be more accurate, RO/DI is suggested for localities with suspect
source water... that is laden with nutrients, possible toxicants as you state
above... Many places the tap water is fine... pre-mixed and stored, aerated and
heated for days... a week or two ahead of use. You may well be in this
category>
Some responses state that water you can
drink may be fine for a marine system.
<Yes>
Is tap water without copper and
phosphates, yet buffered and dechlorinated suitable for a reef system?
<Likely yes>
Are there some trance minerals in tap water harmful over time if allowed
to build-up?
<Almost never... these minerals are "traded out", diluted along
with all else during water changes>
What am I missing in this water change process?
<Mmm, doesn't appear much>
And given all the
information from all these sources, how should I care for my corals and fish?
Thanks for your time!
-Mike
<Sounds like you're doing fine Mike. Most important element in your success
is an open, curious, discerning mind... You seem to have this. Bob Fenner>
Update on Austin water
Hey, WWM-ites,
<Hello Glen!>
I went and got some RO water here in Austin yesterday, and ran my battery of
tests against it. The machine at the grocery store was showing that it had last
been serviced on 11-6-04, and the store manager said it wasn't very heavily
used. Based on that limited info, I'm assuming that the media are still in good
enough shape to reflect what would happen with an average RO system here.
<... not according to the results you post below... something is definitely
awry>
As I expected, the pH wasn't any different from our tap water. The RO water
settled at pH 10.0
<What? If anything, a functional R.O. device may show a drop in pH (below
neutral)... Please see here:
http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education2/ro-ph.htm
Virtually all bicarbonate and carbonate is removed by reverse osmosis.>
on my meter, and a sample of tap water at the house registered pH 9.9. kH and
GH of the RO water registered zero with both the dip-strip and reagent tests,
compared to the tap water's 3 dkH with reagent and <75 ppm kH and ~80 ppm GH
with the dip strip. Temperature of both samples was 71F.
<This is about right where it should be...>
Also, for what it's worth (if it's salient to the total osmotic pressure
discussion) the City reports TDS at average 184 ppm in September (the last
reported month) and for the third quarter of '04.
<Okay>
Interesting results - RO here has all the "stuff" removed from it, but still has
to be treated fairly aggressively to bring the pH down to neutral, and then
buffered to stabilize it (right?).
<... should not have to be treated for pH at all... I would check your testing
gear (against standards, use other means...)... aerating it should register a
near neutral pH over an hours time or so. Does indeed have to have alkaline
material added to re-buffer.>
Thanks again for having such a fantastic trove of info for those of us who are a
bit less informed!
Glen
Re: Update on Austin water
Not to be argumentative, but 'cuz I truly want to understand...
<Me too>
I calibrated my pH meter to a 7.01 and 5.01 standard a week and a half ago, and
the tank readings have been holding pretty steady (up 0.11 - the tank is just
slightly into its cycle - ammonia reading ~0.5, nitrites and nitrates still
0). The City reports an average total alkalinity at the tap of 60, and a total
hardness of 86, which are in line with my not-very-sensitive test kits. Doesn't
this indicate that there isn't much carbonate or bicarbonate to begin with?
<Depends on relative measures, what you call "not much"... this is considerable
if it is coming out of an R.O. unit, about so-so for U.S. tapwater... and very
hard for general Amazonian comparison...>
I called our LFS a minute ago, and was told that their RO pH is nearly identical
(a couple of tenths lower) to their tap water, at 9.2-9.4 (they draw from a
different aquifer, and the slightly lower pH is in line with the City's
reports).
<Strange... or maybe I should state, unfamiliar to me... our R.O. water has a pH
of nearly 7.0, with the source water (San Diego) at 8.2-8.4 most days>
I know that y'all's water treatment FAQ says that aeration would raise a
slightly acidic pH out of a RO system to neutral, by neutralizing the carbonic
acid - will it also drop a pH three points?
<Not easily... depending on what (carbonate likely at this high a pH) is
elevating the pH, and if there is any alkaline reserve (buffer aka) at this high
pH...>
If not, does the approach I asked about in yesterday's question (titled "Plan of
attack for very soft, very basic tap water") make sense?
<Am copying and pasting a pertinent part of this here:
"Here's my approach to the water. Please let me know if there's something I
should do differently:
1. 20% water changes once a week, with substrate vacuuming.
2. Dechloraminate 20-25 gallons at a time (in a dedicated new trash can) -
easier and more uniform to treat a bunch all at once.
3. Bring the pH down to 7.0 (using the sodium biphosphate product (anything
better?)).
4. Boost the kH and GH into more the 125 ppm range using calcium
carbonate. (Would something else, or a different value, be better? If we
actually adhere to this rate of water replacement, does our tap water need
additional buffering, or is the little bit that's there going to be enough?)
5. Aerate and tweak temperature overnight before a water change.
6. Judicious chemistry monitoring between changes.
Since RO water still needs to be tweaked with pH adjustment, buffer, and
essential minerals - why not adjust the tap water? Also, I bet the pH of RO
water around here is still quite high, given the tap water to start with - I'm
going to get a gallon on the way home and test it.
Also, since the tap water is so soft to begin with, the double-whammy of a
buffer and an acidic product shouldn't have too much impact on osmotic pressure,
right?"
This does sound like a logical, workable plan... am still very curious as to
what is "getting through" your Reverse Osmosis membrane that is resulting in
such high pH though...>
I don't mind tweaking the water as necessary, but don't want to osmotically
stress the fish.
Thanks again for your time,
Glen
<You are right to be concerned re osmotic shock... Do me/us a favor and call
your water supplier (their phone number will be on the bill they mail you) and
ask to speak with someone in water chemistry there. Please explain what you have
here, and ask what they think is going on with your resultant pH. Bob Fenner>
Re: Austin water dept. chemist discussion
Well, that stumped 'em.
<Umm, me too... maybe we can start a club...>
I talked to the City's chemist, and he was surprised as well that the pH stays
that high after reverse osmosis. He said that the output of their deionization
system (when they make their reagent-grade water) gives them a pH of 5.5 to 6
(as it's supposed to).
<Yes, agreed>
He said he's not intimately familiar with how RO systems perform here, but he
doesn't see any reason why the RO water still carries such a high pH. His guess
was that given the high concentration of hydroxyl ions, it's possible the RO
system is being overwhelmed, and suggested that someone test the very first
dribble out of a new RO cartridge to see if it reads closer to neutral.
<... hee heee... am given to suggest that your source water has a good deal of
"hydroxyl" ion concentration... turns out that most brand X R.O. membranes allow
ethanol/C2H5OH (and Glycol if interested) through... do you feel elated after a
big glass of tap? Hey, maybe that's why it's called a "tap?". Just joshing
here... and things change... I was a H.S.... Physics and Chemistry teacher years
back... but OH's (Hydroxyls) are otherwise given the suffix "ol"... as in
alcohol...>
The chemist also said they treat the water at the plant with calcium oxide to
cut the sources' hardness from 185-200 down into the 85 range. That explains
why our tap water doesn't fit the usual high pH/hard water "norm" - it comes
somewhat pre-softened. From the reports, the source water is also around 170
ppm kH, where the tap is down around 60.
<Ahh, yes>
I called the LFS again and they said their RO water always has a pH above 9,
though they've never tested it's initial output. Another LFS backed up the tale
- RO pH is never below 8.5, and almost always over 9.
<I believe you, them... am just at a loss to explain why/how this is happening.
Hopefully some kindred chemistry soul will see our correspondence posted on WWM
and chime in>
All the more reason to be religious about water changes, and not put in more
additives than absolutely necessary, huh? Thank goodness for a wife who's
interested in aquariums, too!
<You lucky pug! Mine is kind enough to go and photograph on dive trips, even
liveaboards, even though she is easily boat/motion sick>
Once again, thank you for your site and your input. I really like your
rational, cautious, livestock-oriented approach to the subject.
Glen
<Me too! Be chatting, Bob Fenner>
Water change
First of all, I would like to say, this website has been a HUGE help to me,
but also a little scary....as they say, ignorance is bliss. The more I find
out, the more I feel like I don't know. That "snowstorm" phenomenon...I had
nightmares. :)
<These will soon cease my friend>
Here's some background on my tank.
65 gallons with 4 inch sand bed and about 45-50 lbs LR
1 star polyp, 1 frogspawn, 1 plate coral, 1 mushroom rock
fishes are (all are pretty small):
pygmy angel
purple tang
algae blenny
niger trigger
yellow Coris wrasse
maroon clown
Sri Lanka Dottyback
<All this crowded into a sixty five gallon tank? Will become more so with time...>
water parameters:
1.024-1.025 SG at 77 degrees F
calcium 400
phosphates < .01
nitrate <20
nitrite 0
ammonia <.10
pH am 8.0, pH pm 8.1-8.2
alkalinity 3.2 meq/L
2 pumps with 300gph circulation each
Prizm protein skimmer (if you can call it that, looking to upgrade to AquaC)
<Hee hee, good idea>
Filstar canister filter (mech. filtration, nitrate sponge, Phoszorb,
Biochemzorb)
I do 10 gallon water changes bi-weekly.
All corals and fish are doing fine.
My tank has been set up for 2.5 years, and this is the first water change I am
doing with a buffer added to the water. In the past I used RO water, and salt
(of course) heated it up, aerated it for 24 hours and poured it in. And I have
been wondering why I have had a low pH for so long...Here is what I have done so
far. Set up the water change tank with just the RO water, and aerated/heated it
for 12 hours. Added 1 tsp (10 gallon tank) of Marine Buffer. Aerated/heated 12
more hours. Added the salt (Oceanic) this morning (to 1.024 SG) and went to
work. When I can home, the water was cloudy. The pump I use for
circulation/aeration has a white substance on the intake. What I need to know
is can I use this water for my water change?
<Yes, the precipitate is harmless>
I have added this same buffer before to my main tank diluted in a cup of water
with no cloudiness, but I have never seen my water change water cloudy
before. Thanks for any advice you can give me.
<Likely a simple alkaline earth and alkaline reserve reaction... hard to get
both high calcium and KH/dKH. Bob Fenner>
Re: water change, Clown-Coral interaction
Thanks for the response, I appreciate you taking the time to answer my
question. Unfortunately, the precipitate made me nervous so I dumped the water
and started over. I did the same procedure as before, but added 1/2 tsp buffer
and the prescribed amount of pro buffer to bring pH to 8.4 and alk to
3.2meq/L. I don't currently have a calcium test (mine expired) so I don't have
a reading there. One is on the way....
<Okay... very likely whichever brand synthetic mix you are using, the calcium
will be fine.>
You mentioned that it seemed a lot for my 65 gal tank, what about it seems like
to much. Too many fish, or too many coral or both. What would you suggest, I
really thought it was the right amount, but your advice would be appreciated.
<Too many fishes... when they grow, there will be issues of inter-species
antagonism, as well as pollution from food, wastes for your cnidarians>
Another question, does the clownfish bother the plate coral?
<Can, yes... some Clowns are so aggressive in their pairing with non-anemones
that they do cause real damage>
He seems to like it a lot and is always swimming in it, and bumping it on the
sides and towards the bottom, just like he would an anemone. The plate coral
seems to be affected by it, but not too negatively, but I am still not sure. It
seems that the clownfish could injure some of the lower tentacles if he bumped
them against the "plate" of the plate coral. What do you think? The LFS said
it would be fine, but you know how that goes....
<I'd just keep an eye on these two>
Thanks so much for your time!
<Thank you for writing, your concern. Bob Fenner>
Finding a 2-column Deionizer 11/8/04
Anthony, I am trying to decide on a RO/DI product. You said to look into a
2-column deionizer as a possible choice. I have not been able to locate a
manufacturer or distributor for this.
Do you or can you give me a short list/recommendations for these?. Thanks
Keith
<a simple keyword/phrase search on google for "deionizer, aquarium" and like
entries will yield good leads my friend. Any of the big mail order companies too
carry deionizers: Marine Depot, Custom Aquatic, Drs. F&S, etc. The brand I have
used for years is "Kati Ani" from Germany. Anthony>
Google, Google, Google till it hurts! Kati Ani dealer 11/9/04
Hello All!!
<howdy>
Anthony, in response to a deionization question yesterday you mentioned that you
personally use the brand Kati Ani from Germany. Are you referring to Kati Ani
generically or is that the actual brand name. I asked because I have seen many
other recommendations on this product before but cannot find a distributor or a
manufacturer's website. I believe it is made by AquaTech, but I cannot fine
their website. If you have any info to point me in the right direction I would
be quite appreciative.
Thank you kindly, Corey
<my apologies for the title to this e-mail, my friend... but I am rather
frustrated today - feeling like an enabler - with friends/queries from folks
with seemingly little effort to do a simple keyword search to help themselves
<sigh>. To help you and illustrate a point... in response to your question, I
simply went to the google search tool which is plastered all over our website
and well known at large. I typed in "Kati Ani price" (three common words that
would appear on a page with this product if it existed out there somewhere)...
and the very first page that came up has a link to:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4499&N=2004+22789
ironically... this merchant is also an advertiser. Our only advertiser on WWM at
present: Drs Foster and Smith/LiveAquaria.com
I'm sure there are other merchant of this product out there... google till it
hurts, bro. Anthony :)>
Google searching/ Kati Ani 11/10/04
I sincerely apologize for your impending frustration at my question on
a Kati Ani unit. The site (Dr.FosterSmith) that you recommended I had found
before querying you. I did and do search my brains out on google. I have seen
numerous units using Cation resin and Anion resins. That why I asked if you
meant Kati Ani generically as a type of unit not a brand. I was just unsure
which manufacturer you use and recommended. Again I am truly sorry for the
perceived irritation and I am grateful and understanding of the work you and the
crew put into the site
<no apology needed, my friend. If any, its me being grumpy/frustrated with the
instant gratification society we all live in :p On another day with less mail
and more sleep, I would have been a much nicer fellow <G>... making jest or at
least handling it with sarcasm :p Best of luck/life to you... and thank you for
understanding, mate. Anthony>
Water filtration/de-mineralization 11/6/04
Hi Crew-
<howdy>
I let my R/O membrane dry out by accident, and I was wondering if R/O is even
necessary for me.
<hard to say, but likely not. You can compensate in the tank with other
mechanisms for good nutrient export (skimming, Chemi-pure, PolyFilters, water
changes, etc)>
The amount of water that is wasted disgusts me.
<do consider a 2-column deionizer instead. No waste water and same or better
demineralization than R/O>
I have kept the first 2 stages(3-stage Hi-S) and diverted the membrane input to
a tap water filter. My water supplier lists tested nitrates at .05 PPM.
<Yikes! Is this even legal in your town? Not so in many across the country. My
advice is to consider a deionizer like Kati Ani for controlled, quality source
water. Best regards, Anthony> <<Likely the decimal place went unseen. RMF>>
R/O vs. DI 10/23/04
I look to your website for all of my information. All your
articles and FAQ's are invaluable, and I thank you for providing this service.
<thanks kindly for saying so>
I let my R/O membrane dry out (oopsie) while reconfiguring my reef set-up. A
new membrane is about $90. I saw a DI unit, namely the Deion 200R, for about
$200. It claims that it wastes no water- needless to say it caught my eye
since my Kent R/O throws away 3 gallons for every gallon it makes. Hurts the
wallet when the water bill comes.
<agreed... and is simply wasteful at large. I prefer DI myself>
Is this DI unit suitable for a reef tank?
<likely yes... but do ask to see the specs>
If I'm going to spend 90 bucks, might as well spend a few buck more and save in
the long run.
<agreed. And do a keyword search for "DI" from the home page at WetWebMedia.Com
for more info>
Again, thank you for both your service and time. James Pruefer
Prov, RI
<all good... best of luck! Anthony>
A new 6 ft. marine setup
hi bob
<Andy>
I wonder if you can help me.
<Will try>
I currently run a 3ft marine reef tank, due to a new extension my wife has
agreed to upgrading to a 6ft!
<Congrats!>
I currently buy R.O water from my LFS and change 20% every 2 weeks.
<Good exercise... but I'd buy, fit one of my own>
This is fine but I would like a simpler solution as I will obviously be doing
bigger water changes!
<Yes>
I don't really want to run an RO unit as I believe they have to be running
constantly? is there any way of creating marine friendly water as and when I
need it?
<Mmm, look into these devices... they are exceedingly simple... most have a
reservoir tank this has a pressurized bladder... Reverse osmosis "shuts itself
off" when the tank/pressure is full>
any advice would be helpful.
<Investigate, get one of your own>
whilst I'm emailing maybe you could also suggest the best way of setting up a
sump for this size tank. I don't currently use one with my 3ft but am lucky in
that my LFS will make a tank/sump to any spec. I was looking at setting up with
a 6ft tank with a weir, how many compartments would I require for the sump? and
what sort of size sump would you recommend.
<This is posted on WWM>
hope I'm not asking to much!
thanks
Andy
<Study my friend. Bob Fenner>
If only I could start over
Hey WWM Crew, <Hi Jim, MacL here with you today, how's life?>
Ever since I stumbled onto your site it's been hard to break away. I'm learning
so many new things. Unfortunately I'm learning I would have done almost
everything different (equipment wise). <Every time I read something new I have
the same thoughts if that helps? My tank is never sparkling clear. I have tried
Purigen and use Chemi-Pure. After reading hours of articles from your site I
think RO water might help me out in many ways. (clearing up my water and keeping
the water quality high). Here is my question: I have read every article on RO
water that you have to offer. The problem is now I am more confused than ever on
what may be the right one for me. A RO unit, RO/DI unit or a Kati & Ani Ion
Exchange unit (which I'm not even sure what that is?) I don't want to spend a
ton of money but my bigger concern is that I don't have a lot of room. I have a
cold water valve in my tank room but no drain. <You have to have some way to
drain the waste water off, so would have to use buckets or hosing to take it to
another area.> So would that rule out a RO unit due to water waste? <Another
option might be a U.V. sterilizer for water clarification or a PolyFilter
strategically placed. Lots of people keep their Ro or RO/di units in bathrooms
and use buckets to move the water down to the tank depending on the distance to
the tank. Personally I prefer the RO/DI units for a more clean water. MacL>
Thanks again for all your help!!
Kati Ani deionizers... DIY units 9/20/04
Anthony,
I know you like the Kati & Ani units for water purification.
<yep been using them for over 10 years>
I am trying to locate a Kati & Ani 2 but am having no luck. Dr. Fosters only
have the Kati 10 but have the Ani 2. I did a search on Google but couldn't find
anyone else that sells the Kati & Ani units. Any ideas? Thanks Pat
<no worries... better still is the bulk resin for DIY canisters or Kati Ani
replacement. Spectra-pure sells them at:
http://www.spectrapure.com/St_replac_p5.htm
best of luck, Anthony>
RO/DI or Kold Ster-il 9/8/04
Thanks, Bob -
<Anthony Calfo in his stead>
I guess I'd also like your opinion as to the quality of water produced by the
Kold Ster-il vs. the RO units, please.
Dave Parker
<hard to compare... apples and oranges really. Kold Ster-il produces highly
filtered water... but does not demineralize like RO or DI. Some people have
decent tap water with desirable mineral content... just in need of cleaning up
some of the nasties (chlorine, phosphate, etc). For such situations... Kold
Ster-il is excellent. But for worse source water (quality or variability of
composition) or for aquarists that simply want better control over the water
used/produced... then demineralizing and then buffering back up (with desirable
elements of hardness) is the way to go vis a vis RO or DI. I personally favor DI
as there is no waste water produced and the recharge chemicals are dirt cheap
and be neutralized to inert so to speak. RO instead wastes a lot of water with
even expensive units and the cartridges are an ongoing and considerable
maintenance expense. Best regards, Anthony>
RO/DI or Kold Ster-il 9/8/04
Thanks, Anthony,
<always welcome :)>
If I understand, I can produce top-quality water, then using a Kold Ster-il
followed by and add-on DI stage, and produce no waste water. Is this correct?
<hmmm... my apologies. I may not have been clear. The first thing you need to
decide on is whether you need ultra pure (ala distilled) water from an RO or DI
that you are willing to NEED to aerate and buffer before every use. This is the
most work on your part, but produces the most reliable, clean water for evap top
off or for salting for marine use. But it is dangerous to use raw untreated
(unbuffered) DI or RO (or distilled) water. Yet... this is what many aquarists
choose to do, myself included, to insure superb source water. Kold Ster-il units
on the other hand do not demineralize water but leave in Calcium, Magnesium,
etc. They are basically top shelf chemical filters that clean up the water quite
a bit... but do not reduce the conductivity/hardness, etc. It is an outstanding
prefilter for a DI... and if your tap water is not too bad... can stand alone
without even needing a DI or RO. DO test your tap water to see how bad is bad
first. Ultimately, the Kold Ster-il + DI units an excellent choice in my
opinion>
thanks for bearing with me, Dave
<no worries. Anthony>
RO/DI or Kold Ster-il II 9/8/04
Thanks again, Anthony,
<cheers again>
I always aerate and buffer with SeaChem Marine buffer before adding my salt - I
happen to use Oceanic if it matters. I understand about not using distilled or
raw, RO/DI as top-off - heck I don't even do this for my goldfish tank. I'm
simply looking for a way to produce top-quality water for this process without
wasting 4x what I produce,
<ahhh... definitely DI then for you>
and to be able to produce it more on-demand since no one is home during the day
to watch the RO unit overflow my Rubbermaid cans.
<no worries... you will have this with DI. But with either... there is always a
simple float switch for your reservoir>
I have a whole-house water softener, so that much waste water gets expensive,
and I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that my water softener will take a lot
of the calcium and magnesium, in particular, out, but leave some sodium (or in
my case, potassium) in.
<yes... true. Salt softeners are NOT recommended for use with aquatic life. Long
term problems with water quality>
Do I need ultra pure? Well, I get algae blooms like crazy using tap, that is
why I started hauling RO from my LFS. So I guess I may not have been clear,
either - I want to produce top-quality raw water, with as little waste as
possible, and am in the practice of buffering and aerating and buffering
already. To ask the question another way, what am I likely to leave in my water
by using Softener -> Kold Ster-il -> DI stage vs. having an RO unit in the
middle, and is this difference enough to cause problems down the road.
<just use the Kold Ster-il & DI stages... never the salt softener>
Appreciate the help and advice, Dave
<best of luck, Anthony>
RO/DI or Kold Ster-il
Hi, Gang and thanks for a great service! I am setting up a new 120gal
FOWLR, and am getting tired of hauling RO water from the LFS.
<I hear you... my arms are a good inch longer from hauling water about all these
years>
I'm ready to put in a system myself. However, I am scared by all of the waste
water the typical RO/DI units produce, as water is not cheap here.
<Mmm, I divert the "waste line water" to my pond outside, and in turn to the
garden>
I've heard about this Kold Ster-il unit, and that it does not produce
wastewater. Can you help me understand the difference in the processes, and
perhaps suggest which might work best?
<This unit uses filtrants that are not re-used... contactors... so all water
that is filtered, passes through the unit is used. RO utilizes selective
membranes capitalizing on ambient or increased pressure to "squeeze" water
molecules and exclude solids (and their zones of hydration) and some other
liquids, gasses from getting through the membrane... with their water
periodically bypassed to waste>
Either system would come after my water softener, and in this, I use potassium
chloride rather than sodium chloride as the agent to wash/renew my resin
bed. Thank you for your input!
Dave
<The real (IMO of course) difference in practical terms are the upfront costs of
the two types of units/technologies, versus the amounts of waste water
generated... Both will produce high(er) quality water of use. If it bothers you
to "throw away" so much RO waste water (a ration of 4-5 to 1 of usable is not
uncommon) than I would go the contactor route. In all fairness though, do take a
look at your water bill, see how much water is going for other uses... Bob
Fenner>
Buffering
Hi Scott
<Hello again!>
How are you?
<Just fine, thanks!>
I need your advice on my thoughts.
I pre mix my tap water with salt as I do not have an RO-unit.
I leave this mixing for a week before I add the new water to my tank. I was
thinking will it help if I were to add crushed shell to this drum of mine and
then mix the
water in there.
<I would not bother, myself.>
Will this maybe assist me in pushing up my ph instead of using additives and
adding bi-carb which I
ain't really too fond of, like to keep it as natural as possible.
<Well, most of these buffer products are quite natural, actually. A great assist
is a deep sand bad of aragonitic material>
Also what exactly is KH and how do I go about maintaining this , have seen some
fancy, costly additives which I personally don't think are necessary. Please shed
your very valuable advise on my thoughts Thanks Again
Ziad
<Well, Ziad- rather than go nuts with a long winded dissertation on this basic
tenant of water chemistry, I invite you to check out the large amount of
information that we have on this subject on the WWM FAQs. Simply use the Google
search feature that we have here, using "KH" or "alkalinity", or "buffering" as
your key words...Enjoy the learning- the answers are here in abundance! Regards,
Scott F.>
Buffering (Cont'd.)
Hi Scott
<Hi there!>
Thanks for your input
<You're quite welcome!>
can I try adding crushed shell to my drum where I mix my water to push the ph of
my tap water up?
<You could>
Do you think it will help
<Personally, I don't know if it will have much impact on water chemistry, as
this material will dissolve very slowly-over time. Makeup water will generally
not be in this drum long enough for the material to have a meaningful impact on
water chemistry, IMO>
Thanks. Regards
Ziad Limbada
<Always a pleasure! Scott F.>
Deionizer or R/O Unit?
Hi, I am in the process of setting up a 75 gallon salt water F/O NLT
aquarium. I would like to know if deionized water is OK for this setup, or if I
need R/O water.
<Deionized water is fine, in my experience>
I do not have any place in my house to set up a large unit and would like
suggestions on what type of units you might recommend that would provide good
enough water quality for fish only, be fairly portable and fairly inexpensive to
purchase. I have considered a bare bones unit by Kent. Any suggestions you may
have would be greatly appreciated. thanks, James
<Well, James, Kent does make a fine deionizer unit (I think it's called "Deion
2000" or something like that). Other manufacturers, like Spectra Pure and
Captive Purity might, as well. The "Kati/Ani" units are great, too. All of these
units tend to be a bit pricey, but they are well worth the cost, as they are
efficient and don't waste water! Good long-term investments! However, most
commercially available RO/DI units are just fine, too. Regards, Scott F.>
James Hall
Re: Planted Tank Water for Sea Salt Mix??
Thanks for your time and advice. I'm attending the FINDIG in October
(hosted by the Sacramento Aquarium Society) and will purchase a R/O unit
there.
<Ahh! A very nice get-together. I gave a pitch there last year>
I think a 50gpd unit sold for $35.00 in the raffle last year, I can afford that.
Thanks Again for your time and the time you save us with your knowledge.
Jose Saldana
<A worthwhile investment. Hope to meet you about. Bob Fenner>
- Water Storage -
Hi crew, I'm in need of more help yet again!
I use a 40 gallon trash can to make up my saltwater. My RODI water goes
directly into it. here is what I noticed, RODI water test at 1-2 ppm when
tested directly in a clean glass, however when the water has been sitting in the
can for a day or so with the pump running the water test at about 35-40ppm. <PPM
of what?>
I recently cleaned my garbage can with a solution of vinegar and water to clean
out a white substance (calcium?) that came out of solution from my previous make
up water. I only rinsed the can out with water. Should I have used something
else to completely clean the can? <No, the vinegar should work just fine.> what
could be causing the raise in ppm? <Hard to say without knowing what it is that
you are measuring in parts per million exactly.>
I have a second 5 gallon bucket that stores fresh RODI water to be used to top
off of evaporation water, there is a small powerhead in this 5 gallon can. I
tested the water in their after it had been their for about 4 days with the
powerhead and the water tested at around 650ppm! These cans have only been used
for my fish tank.
Is it possible because both of these can are left outside, that the water is
getting polluted, I keep covers on them, but of course it is not by any means
air tight. Would it help to move these cans into my garage? <It's worth a try.>
I appreciate your thoughts, thanks.
<Cheers, J -- >
- Water Storage -
sorry, I am simply measuring total dissolved solids using the water tester
that came with my RODI unit, the RODI produces water at about 1-2ppm, however,
my stored water is anywhere between 35-650 after running with a powerhead for a
few days. any ideas based on the new information about what I am measuring...
<Most likely dust and particulates from the air - you did say these containers
are outside and not tightly sealed.
Cheers, J -- >
Do I Really Need an RO/DI Unit?
Hello. I am new to saltwater but have had freshwater tanks for
around 5 years now. I have found that my tap water is just not cut
out for saltwater in that my tanks (72 gallon and 18 gallon) turned
pea green literally overnight within a week and a half of each other. I
have tested the water with ammonia, nitrate and nitrite all at zero. My
pH is 8.3, salinity is 1.023. In researching your site, I found only
one post that referenced something called an Omnifilter and it was made in
passing. I have purchased an Omnifilter system and the filter
cartridges that I am have are a string wound whole house filter that is rated at
5 microns (first in line) and a carbon filter that has a rating of 2 microns
(second). I am wondering if filtering my tap water through this
system will take care of getting rid of the chlorine and chloramine for use in
my tanks without the use of a dechlorinator. << I'm not sure, but to me,
using carbon is good enough for chlorine and chloramine removal. Also,
if you let the water sit out after the filtering for 24 hours, you should be
fine. >> My thought was to try to reduce the amount of
silicates that are in my tap water and increase the quality without going to a
full blown RO/DI unit. << I think that is a good move. Obviously
RO/DI is a great way if you can afford it. Keep in mind many many
many people have great looking tanks with tap water. However, they
also have great filtration and lots of corals. >>
Michelle Peralta
<< Blundell >>
- Choosing an RO/DI Unit -
Good morning folks. Thanks always for your site - it is great. My question
is what in your opinion is the best ro/di unit available today for ease of use,
results, quality, and long term costs of use. <I'm not sure there is a
"best" - for the most part all units use the same basic parts and really the differentiating item that influences the price is the number of
gallons per hour the unit can deliver.> I really do not care what initial
costs are. My aquarium is 300 gal. custom fabricated (=I built it) although not
yet up and running. There appears to be several on the market. Also, any
thoughts on size? <Whatever fits your needs.>
Thank you - Chris
<Cheers, J -- >
- Buffering RO/DI -
Hi, Hope all is going well for you there. I have a couple of questions
please. First, I use D/I water which I store in a 50 gallon plastic
container. I have read that R/O water should be aerated for 24 hours before
adding the salt mix. Is this also true for D/I? <Yes.> Also, I use Seachem's
marine buffer. Should I add this to my water before or after I add the salt?
<Before.> And lastly, what action can I take if a particular batch of salt mixes
to a higher than normal ph? <Limit the amount of buffer you add before you add
the salt.> I use instant ocean, and have read that at times it can mix to higher
ph than normal. <More likely due to differences in the source water and not the
salt itself. Test everything before you make additions.> Thank you for your
time, James
<Cheers, J -- >
- RO vs. DI -
Hi, hope all is going well there. Please clarify something for me. I had
planned on getting a Kent's "bare bones" R/O unit, but recently read that if
water is only R/O treated and not R/O AND D/I it can still cause problems in the
aquarium. <Is this specifically related to silicates? If so, the presence of
these is often overrated and blamed for Cyanobacteria outbreak. Problem algae
can be avoided by means other than source water, especially if the silicates are
reasonable.> Please let me know what you think. <Really depends on the quality
of your source water. RO/DI will leave your water stripped and demineralized and
then the water will need supplementation to make it suitable for saltwater - for
instance adding buffers. If and unless your tap water is complete junk, RO
usually does the trick.>
thanks, James
<Cheers, J -- >
- Bare Bones RO -
Hi, I have a 75 gallon F/O tank. I am considering buying one of the Kent
Marine Bare Bones R/O units. Please tell me if you know anything about them.
<Yes, I know a thing or two about them... was there a specific question?> Also,
I have never owned any kind of R/O unit. Are they hard to assembly and/or use?
<Should come out of the box ready to use.> thanks, James
<Cheers, J -- >
- Bare Bones RO, Follow-up -
could you tell me if they are a good quality product? <For the most part,
the majority of RO membranes are created equal. You will get good performance
from this unit.
Cheers, J -- >
- Bare Bones RO, More Follow-up -
I have read that if water is only purified through a R/O unit and not a R/O
/ DI unit, that the water can still contain impurities. <Is one way to look at
it.> Please explain. <Please read here:
http://urila.tripod.com/ and here:
http://chemistry.about.com/library/glossary/bldef52900.htm > I also would
like to know the difference between R/O and D/I. <Read up. Cheers, J -- >
- Reverse Osmosis Questions -
Hi how are you I had a couple of questions with regards to R/O water. <Ok.>
I would like to know which tests I should perform on R/O water (without the salt
added) to know that the membrane is functioning properly <There is only one test
for RO that I am aware of available to the hobbyist - TDS, Total Dissolved
Solids. Typically available as an electronic device.>
I figure I should test for PH and GH is this right? <Mmm... not sure these will
tell you if the membrane is working correctly or not.> if so what should the PH
and GH be for freshly made R/O water? <GH wouldn't be influenced very much by RO
alone unless you added deionization. pH likewise will be influenced by the GH
although the removal of some other compounds by the RO would likely change the
pH somewhat. I have no idea what these values "should" be as they will be
different with each source water. With DI added - the pH should be in the 7.0
range.> I was told that if your PH and GH rises this means that your membrane
would soon need to be replaced. <Could also indicate a change in the source
water.>
also should I use those R/O right additives (Kent) to the water which claim to
make the water ready before adding the salt. <Again, strictly RO water without
deionization typically doesn't need the same type of replenishment - it has not
been severely demineralized. Would test the output water first, and then
supplement as needed - as indicated by the tests.>
I know how to prepare R/O water for the marine aquarium, I would like to use it
for my freshwater aquarium also, how do I prepare the water for freshwater use
is it the same as saltwater minus the salt? <You may need to add something to
reduce the pH - of course depending what that is - you've not mentioned any
specific numbers so it's hard to say specifically what you might do.>
my last question is that my salt tank is now 5 months old and I cant seem to get
rid of my algae problem, it is brown and somewhat golden in appearance any
suggestions or will this disappear with time. <Is likely Cyanobacteria and is
typical in new tanks - you must get in there and remove the stuff - it often
will not go away on its own. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm >
thanks very much for your help.
Val
<Cheers, J -- >
Abbreviations (6/20/04)
Awesome, thanks for the advice, I plan to use it. <You're welcome.> Sorry
for the stupid question, but what does RO, and DI mean? <Not stupid at all.> I'm
sure it'll be obvious once I
get the answer, but I saw on the website and message below, but have never heard
before. <RO=Reverse Osmosis add DI=De-ionized; The DI is a further step after RO
or a method by itself that leaves the water even more pure than RO. Using
strictly DI wastes no water, while RO wastes 4 gallons or more of water for
every gallon of purified water produced, depending on how bad the water is to
start with. Much more info on WWM water FAQs. Steve Allen.>
RO/DI units 6/11/04
Hey Crew, Good morning to you.
<to you in kind>
I had a question on RO/DI units. I found a unit made by WaterGeneral Mfg. Co.
(Aquarium 110GPD RO+DI Reverse Osmosis Filter). Have you ever heard of this
product or company? The unit is half the price of comparable units. I want to
save money,
but not at the expense of quality. Thanks, Pete C.
<I recommend DI units only... RO units necessarily waste a lot of water. Do ask
this mfg what the reject ratio is from the RO. Chances are that it is 4: 1 or
worse... meaning that 4 or more gallons of water are sent down the drain to make
each gallon of purified water. Let me suggest you look into buying a proper 2
column deionizer instead (Kati Ani brand instead). Anthony>
- RO Setup -
Good day! I am kinda confused about how to figure out which end of my RO
system to run into my sump for an auto top-off system. The 5-stage RO Sx. has a
line coming out of the fifth stage into a 4 gal. Holding tank, another line
coming out of the 5th stage into a spout. <I'd say out of the fifth stage.>
Which one of these do I connect into an auto-top-off system in my sump?? <The
final stage in the filter.> It is rated at 85 gpd, but it seems to only draw
water out of the tank when the spout is open, otherwise the flow is very slow.
<Best to test by trying to fill a known volume - say a trash can. May be a
factor of existing tap water pressure.> Thanks in advance for your help. Your
site is AWESOME!!
Ed
<Cheers, J -- >
Pickle Barrel Water Change 5/30/04
Thanks, again, Adam. I will clean barrels w/baking soda next
time.
<Do also consider Arm&Hammer Washing Soda. It is in the
grocery store near the laundry detergent. It is perfectly safe to use
(fairly pure NaCO3) and does not contain any soap or detergent and is a bit more
aggressive than baking soda.>
Anyway, matey told me we have used stored water in these drums before w/no ill
effects, so we're going to use water & do change tonight. All
parameters are same as aquarium. I buffered the water, aerated it and
cured it; hopefully all will go well. -Kathy Harper
<Best of luck! Adam>
- RO vs. DI -
Hi Gents, I am in need of some education!
<Me too.>
I have a 70 gallon reef, 30 gallon sump, and just added an AquaSpacelight with
650watts. So, I had to remove the hood and tank top covers, and as
the summer hits, that water is leaving fast! I'm probably going
through ~10 gallons a week through evaporation. The tank is doing the
best it ever has with this setup and RO from LFS currently, lots of buckets. I
also am using an Aqua-C EV-150 and DSB. I have been successful
(knock on wood) with Acropora, scallops, Gorgonia, some other SPS (not sure what
exactly it is), a small polyped cup, plates, brains, and some Ricordea,
orange/red/green polyps and other misc. non-stonies.
Ok, to the question:
I was about to buy a Hi-S 35 or 60 gpd RO/DI unit by Kent, then I reviewed all
of your FAQs on this subject and have seen several different options, and
opinions. I like RO because it can get the water so clean and it has
worked excellently so far, but I hate wasting that much water. <Then store
the water - what comes out of the waste side of the RO is dechlorinated, and
pretty much safe to drink. Save for watering plants or for use around the house.
No one says you have to throw it away.> I don't know enough about De-I units
to make an educated decision, and there doesn't seem to be much info on them out
there, but some of you really like and have promoted their use. Please
help me understand the basic differences, and their advantages/drawbacks. <DI
units are exactly that, and not much to explain - just a deionization
cartridge.> How do you re-use the de-I units---do you have to replace media
often? <That is the Big Deal (tm) - DI cartridges can be renewed but require
the use of some hazardous materials. Personally I'd just swap out the cartridges
- and how often will depend on the quality of your source water.> Can the
De-I units get the same quality of water as an RO unit? <Really, defend types
of filtration - suffice to say that the product water from each is
"clean" but cleaned differently.> Is it good to run either RO OR
De-I and not both together? <You can run both together, and this is not an
uncommon configuration - I own an RO/DI filter, but no longer run the DI
cartridge. DI after RO tends to deplete a good portion of the minerals in the
water. Where I've been living for the last couple of years, the water is very
hard, so I take advantage of that rather than having to re-add compounds that my
water filter has taken out.> I understand that they're both options, but
don't understand what to base my decisions on. <I'd work from the quality of
your source water - if it is even close to good, you really can get away with
throwing in some dechlorinator, mixing for a day or two and then adding salt.
Heavily treated water or water high in particulates may need additional
filtration.> Sorry for the vague e-mail, but I just haven't found enough info
to make it a more educated question! Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
(and if there is anything else you think I should change, please let me know!)
Thanks,
Scott
<Cheers, J -- >
- RO vs. DI, Follow-up -
Ok, a follow up question...
I think I may have come up with a solution--maybe! <I may come up with an
answer, maybe...> I dislike all the water waste of RO and can't really save it
for later use, and don't want to remove all the "good" things in my water as it
is very hard and of good ph. Can I get two "add on" RO canisters, and only use
a sediment filter and a carbon filter---no TFC or DI? <Sure.> I would like to
know if that would take out some of the bad things by using the carbon and
sediment filters, but not waste water due to not using the TFC filter, and also
leave a lot the calcium? <Would take care of some of the particulates and
chlorine.> If so, what else would this leave in my water? <Hard to say... would
need to have the output tested to be certain.> Any good points or bad points to
this proposition? <Not really.> Also, what kind of carbon filter would you
recommend--1, 5, or 10 micron? <Slightly smaller than the prefiler you choose.>
Or is this a waste of money and I should just leave everything in the water and
dechlorinate it? <I'd try this route first if your source water is of decent
quality - do you drink your tap water? If so, it's probably ok to use in your
fishtank.> If the latter is your suggestion, can you recommend a good
dechlorinator which won't set my skimmer on the fritz? <They all do this to an
extent, and there's no real way to remedy it - have heard that Amquel does OK,
but am not certain that it is a dechlorinator - check the bottle.>
Thanks again,
Scott
<Cheers, J -- >
Tap water quality improvement
Hi Robert, great article on water quality. I'm just getting back into marine aquaria again and have a
question regarding water. As usual, water here in Victoria B.C. Canada is chlorinated, no surprise
here ! Would a 3 or 4 stage reverse osmosis system solve problems with chlorine and
other crap for a marine fish tank water changes ?
< An RO unit removes almost all the minerals from water including chlorine. It is so pure that you would have to add everything to make it a complete
saltwater mix.-Chuck, Sorry, Bob was unavailable to answer your question.>
Buffering RO/DI water 5/27/04
Hi Marina,
<Anthony Calfo instead>
Is the Kent Marine Pro Buffer dKH sufficient to reconstitute RODI water?
<most any common sea buffer will work fine. Do aerate in advance to reduce the amount of buffer needed>
Or should I be looking at another product.
<I personally like Aquarium Systems SeaBuffer and most any SeaChem products. I've never been a fan of Kent products>
thanks, I understand you are shorthanded, so I will wait patiently for a reply (well at least I will try to wait patiently:) thanks for your support.
<best of luck, Anthony>
Eliminating Undesirable Compounds From Source Water (Pt. 2)
Scott - Thanks so much for the information and especially for your time.
<Glad to hear that!>
Will look into the RO unit. Based on other things I had read, I had already
decided never again to add trace minerals to the water, which you just confirmed
to me.
<Only if testing determines a need!>
So if we get the source water situation straightened out, we should be in good
shape. Would have never occurred to me that it could be the source of the
elevated nitrates.
<An often overlooked cause of persistent nitrates in aquariums!>
You have a great service here. Have a wonderful day.
<You, too! Regards, Scott F>
Can I add on a D/I cartridge?
What an education I'm getting, reading all the FAQ's! Thank you, all of you. Question: I have a 3 canister Pinnacle RO unit, and after reading until my eyes crossed about the benefit of the D/I also, want to know if I can just rig up a deionizer unit in line with the RO unit I have? If so, how??
< There are many commercial units sold with a DI attachment added at the end of the RO flow. These give you
ultra pure water that is probably way more than you need. Check out the Smiths and fosters website and look at the RO units and you will see what I mean.>
Another question--I forgot how cold my garage got in winter, the Pinnacle froze, cracked some canisters (since replaced), but I'm not getting much of a flow at all--lucky to get 3-5 gallons/day. I'm replacing the cartridges tomorrow (they are in moderate usage about 7 months) to see if that's the problem, but if flow is not enhanced, could the freezing have caused the membrane to malfunction?? Thanks for all the informed information...Barry
< Freezing most likely damaged the entire unit. I would check the water after you make the replacement. Your water may not be as pure as you like.-Chuck>
RO Question
Would it be safe to say that the "waste" water from an RO system is safe enough to use directly on a freshwater aquarium? My RO system has a
sediment filter as well as two carbon blocks prior to the actual membrane. I believe that the major issue is with chlorine. Wouldn't
the carbon blocks remove this? I understand that the overall hardness of the water will increase, but is it safe for usage without any
additives or chemicals? If further information is necessary, please let me know what I need to
provide.
< An RO unit is a membrane that allows water molecules through and leaves the rest behind. While the RO unit provides very pure water, the "Waste Water" will contain everything else. I suggest that you check it out for ammonia , nitrites and nitrates. Then check the pH and the hardness. Once all of this is known then we can make recommendations about how to use this water. In agricultural areas the nitrates are already very high in the first
aquifer from which many homes get their well water. You really don't want these levels to be very high unless you are planning to start a plant tank.-Chuck>
Thanks
Andy
Live Rock and RO vs. RO/DI
>Thanks Marina for your previous comments.
>>Again, welcome.
>Though I must admit I am a little confused regarding curing of the live rock
vs. cycling, I thought I was doing both...
>>Seek and ye shall find.
>What about my 1" sand bed, do I need to vacuum it in small portions as
well
while doing water changes, I'm afraid I will just suck up all the sand and
eventually the crabs and snail I plan on adding?
>>At this point I wouldn't really worry about it till it's established. At
that time, yes, small portions as I outlined in the previous response.
>Any advice between choosing a RO vs. RO/DI? How much do I gain in
water
cleaning power by adding a DI.
>>Alas, I am not the person to ask about this subject. I can
tell you that the deionization along with reverse osmosis is definitely more
beneficial, but my understanding is barely rudimentary. If sufficient
explanations are not on our site, then I suggest searching Advanced Aquarist
Online, to be found at http://www.reefs.org/
>I was not able to find much regarding RO vs. RO/DI on your site, maybe not
looking in the right place. Thanks again for your input. Devin
>>Quite welcome, maybe this other resource will net you better results. Sorry
I couldn't be more definitive for you. Marina
- RO Filter Changes, and More -
Hi there how are you, I have a couple of questions. <I am well... I will
try my best to answer your questions.>
how do I know when it is time to replace the filters on a RO unit, I have the Coralife
unit with a 1 micron filter, carbon. sediment filter. <There are no hard-set
rules, but six months for the micron filter is pretty good - if you change this
filter often you can extend the life of the other cartridges. Typically the
micron filter is the cheapest in the bunch.>
I was told that when the output slows down that you need to replace the filters,
my question is do you only replace some of the filters or all of them? <I
personally don't wait that long, and my RO unit has clear filter cartridges so
it's possible to see when the micron cartridge is getting loaded up with
particulates. I've moved a lot in the past year and a half and have found that
the mileage on these filters varies greatly.> or is there a better way of
knowing when to replace the filters, they are rather expensive so I would like
to be sure. <Well, for certain they don't last forever so... you just need to
keep an eye on things.> Can you test the water coming out of the RO unit,
like if the hardness goes up is this a sign or can you recommend me the best way
to know when to replace the filters, also I only use 15 to 20 gallons a week so
I shut off the RO unit when not in use, I was told that's its not good for the
filter if it is shut off, is this true? <I've not heard this, can't verify
it's truth but have shut my filter down many times, in fact right this minute it
is doing nothing... think this is in fact pretty standard - as in I don't know
anyone who's RO system is running 24/7.> I leave the hoses above the filter
so the water does not drain out. <Sounds fine to me.>
If I don't need a lot of water why keep it going is this OK to do. <I
wouldn't be too worried about it.> I would like to store some of it also. If
I used Rubbermaid containers say a couple of 20 gallons how long could I store
it for with no air stones or powerheads, or this not a good idea. <It's not
good to store water without some form of circulation... it will go stale
relatively quickly.>
my other question is about the PolyFilter by bio marine, good product, but when
do I know when it is time to change it the instructions say you can wash it and
reuse it, but I thought I read somewhere on your site that they cant be re-used,
also since it is a little expensive how often would you recommend using it.
<The Polyfilter is supposed to change colors as it absorbs undesirable
chemical compounds. I wouldn't run one of these all the time if cost is an issue
- instead just use normal filter pads if all you need is physical filtration. A
Polyfilter is both physical and chemical filtration.> my parameters are
pretty good, would I still use it even if everything is Ok, or only when I have
high ammonia readings, also does the PolyFilter remove trace elements or just
the bad stuff, I heard that it wont remove elements out of the salt but will
remove any supplements I add to my tank. <It will remove some but not all...
but if you're dealing with high ammonia issues, I wouldn't be using a Polyfilter
but instead attack the problems at the source.>
thanks for your help in advance, your site has been very helpful.
Val
Toronto, Canada
<Cheers, J -- >
- RO/DI Question, Follow-up -
Boy, am I confused. After reading some information in your Q
& A part of your website, I am not sure what to do. You see, I
have well water, and I want to get a system. After reading you
website, I see that R/O systems do waste a lot of water. <All the same, this
water can be stored and is suitable for drinking - will have both particulates
and chlorine taken out before the RO portion of the filter.> What concerns
me is that there are times when we have droughts in the summer. <Would
encourage you to invest in a storage container and save the RO bypass water -
use for other things.> We have to be careful not to waste water, due to the
possibility of our well running dry. Do you think, in this case, I
would probably be better off getting a DI System alone? <With a DI-only
system, you will likely spend a fortune in DI cartridges if your water quality
is at all off. Would consider having your water tested to see that you need any
filtration at all. Many folks have source water that is more than suitable and
just add a quality dechlorinator like Prime or Dechlor, let the water mix for a
day or so, then add the salt and let that mix for another day, and then use the
water.> Debbie
<Cheers, J -- >
- More Questions about RO/DI -
sorry, I just thought of some more questions.
if using an RO/DI, I understand I must first aerate for 24 hours, then buffer
correct? <You can buffer immediately, but this should then be allowed to mix
for a day or so before adding salts...> do I need to use a dechlorinator
then? <No.>
second, if I just use an RO, then do I need to aerate for 24 hours, do I
typically need to buffer such water, would I need to use a dechlorinator? <No
"need" to aerate RO or RO/DI water before adding buffers, but in
general is not harmful to aerate constantly during the preparation of your
water. If using RO or RO/DI, no need for dechlorinators as the first two
cartridges, particulate and carbon will remove the chlorine long before the
water reaches the RO membrane.>
thanks again guys.
Devin
<Cheers, J -- >
Top Off Question (5/2/2004)
There is a ton of information about buffering top-off on your site, but not
specifically what I am looking for. I just got a RO/DI today, and am
trying to figure out the best way to buffer my top-off water. I use
B-ionic, and thought about just using the alkalinity half to buffer (I seem to
always have more of the alk part anyways). Is this a good idea?
<Seeing how theoretically the end product of an RO\DI unit should be just
pure water, at a pH of 7.0, with no buffer capacity to speak of, the alkalinity
buffer is a necessary additive. However, you will probably also want
to add a pH buffer to bring up the pH of the water. You shouldn't
need to add the calcium half if your tank doesn't require the extra calcium, as
long as you follow the dosing instructions for the alkalinity half of the
B-Ionic> Should I buy some of that Kent Osmo-prep stuff? <I
have had no personal experience with this product, but Kent marine usually makes
good quality additives. However, your current B-Ionic should work
fine> Do I just want to put a little in to get the pH moving in
the right direction, or should the top-off water have the same alkalinity as the
tank water? <It should preferably have a slightly higher alkalinity, and
should most definitely have the same pH. However, adding an
alkalinity supplement will not directly affect your pH; unless it has other
buffers as well> If I use b-ionic to buffer alkalinity for my top-off should
I add less to my tank on a daily basis? <This totally depends on your
system's total alkalinity. Purchase an alkalinity test kit and
monitor results to determine the correct amount of additive needed> I
could just add all my alkalinity solution for the week to my auto-top off
container (a powerhead on a float switch in a 4 gal Rubbermaid container).
<Once again, be sure to measure your alkalinity and dose accordingly> I
have a 55 gallon and use tropic Marin salt which I believe will mix up fine for
water changes without buffering the water first.
Thanks,
<No problem>
-Ken
<M. Maddox>
An Assortment of Issues (5/1/04)
Hi Steve <Hello again.>
I emailed you a little earlier, but I have another
question. This is about my Banggai cardinal fish. As you
know, I have a fish in QT with Popeye. I am medicating
him. It is hard to tell if my cardinal fish has Popeye or not, since
his eyes normally seem to bulge out. <Yes, they have big
eyes.> The odd thing is that he has not been eating
well. He does not seem to be able to find the food when I put it in.
I just tried feeding him some live worms by hand, and he ate! As the uneaten worms
fall, he does not follow them. However, if he feels them touching the
sides of his body, he will whisk around and eat them. This is the
first time I have seen him eat. My question is, does Popeye affect
the fish's eyesight? <Not sure.> Can he see? <Worrisome for blindness.
I can't remember--did you put any medication in your main tank?> Should I
also put him into QT? And with my clownfish. <If he does not act normal soon,
you may have to.> I only have one other fish left in my display tank, a Dottyback,
who seems to be fine (at least for now). Also, if this is bacterial, I am not
sure how they got it. It must be my water. <Most bacterial
infections in aquariums are opportunistic pathogens that strike when something
else does the initial damage.>
I have QT all new fish, <good> and have had these in my tank
for approximately 8-10 months. I do have well water. Who
knows what bacteria thrive in it. <I trust you treat it somehow.> I am
sure it changes with weather conditions. After reading your website, I also
retrieved information about the Kold Ster-il System, by Poly-Bio-Marine. <A
very popular and effective unit.> It is a little more expensive, but it is
less wasteful, and since I have a well, I thought it might be better, especially
when drought season comes along, and we have to be careful with water usage.
<Agreed. I should have bought one too, rather than using RO here in
drought-stricken Utah.>
PS. I am also curious, you said that DI water is better,
than why is Bob Fenner (I have his book) so high on RO water. I
don't get it. If DI is better, and waste less, why does anyone prefer
RO. <Where water is abundant, RO is cheaper than DI. For many, it is a good
choice.> I must be missing something! <Check the copyright. The book is
six years old. Many things change. That's why he created WWM. It's very hard to
keep a book current. Being in medicine myself, I am acutely aware of this.
That's why the web is so wonderful.>
Water Purification (5/2/04)
Hi Steve,<Greetings>
In answer to some of your questions. No, I am not medicating my display tank,
only the QT. <Good> I have had my clownfish in the Qt for 7
days. I put Epsom salts in and than Maracyn for 5 days. He
is eating, and appears to be healthy, but still has Popeye. Should I
remedicate with Maracyn, or try something different? <If he is eating and
acting better, I'd just give it some more "tincture of time" for
now.> How long does it usually take for it to go away? <Might take a
couple of weeks.> Should I keep him in there indefinitely, unless it goes
away. <If it does not go away, you may need to try something else. Take the
opportunity to read more about Popeye.>
My Banggai cardinal has been eating for the past couple of days, but only from
my hand. He seems to see me coming near the tank, when it is time to be fed. He
also comes near when I put my hand in the water. Any ideas of what
the problem may be? <Hard to be certain. It sounds like he may be getting
better, so it ought to be OK to watch for a few days while making certain your
water parameters are optimal.> What types of bacteria or diseases create
vision problems? <Toxins and nutritional deficiencies come to mind. Bacterial
infection is less likely. Sometimes parasites (including ich) can get on the
eye.>
You also asked about my well water. You said "I trust you are
treating it". Well, no I am not. <I just accepted that well
water is treated with some sort of chlorine or something. I've never lived in a
place without municipal water.> What should I be treating it with? <Maybe
that's not needed. I'm probably just paranoid, but I like my drinking water to
be free of living micro-organisms. In Milwaukee in 1993, 400,000 people got
diarrhea when Cryptosporidium got into the municipal water system. That
certainly must have put a burden on the sewer system.> Until I decide on a
system, I have been using distilled water. <Now that gets expensive quickly.
You also need to buffer it before adding the salt. Search on "distilled
water" on WM for info.> I was told it is not the best, but it may be
better than my well water. Maybe, I should mix well with
distilled. What do you think I should do in the meantime, until I get
The Kold Ster-il system, which I am leaning towards. <Test the well water for
nitrates and phosphates. If you live in a rural farming area, these may be quite
high from fertilizer. And then there's the pesticide residues... Did you know
that there are measurable levels of Ciprofloxacin in several rivers in this
country. Some have Prozac and all kinds of other meds too. There's a theory that
estrogen-mimicking pesticide residues in drinking water are responsible for the
recent increase in the incidence of hypospadias (a birth defect of the penis) in
baby boys as well as a recent drop in the age of female puberty. No wonder so
many people are filtering their water these days. I guess I'd better shut up
before I scare you to death. Anyway, if your well water has nitrates &
phosphates, I'd suggest you spring for the Kold-Ster-il ASAP. Can you buy RO
water somewhere nearby in the meantime?>
RO/DI Question (4/30/04)
Hi Steve. <Greetings> Thank you for your advice. <Hope it helps.> I did read everything on
Popeye. But your information about putting both
Epsom salts and Maracyn in at the same time was new. I wasn't sure if that was safe. But I will add the
Maracyn tonight. Also, you mentioned a R/O system. I have been considering that. Is it important also to have a R/O-D/I System. What is the difference in these two systems. What does the D/I do? <DI stands for de-ionized. It is an extra stage that removes ions that pass through the reverse osmosis membrane. For the purest water, DI is the most thorough, but for most people RO is sufficient. It removes the most important impurities and is
satisfactory for most people. Read more starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/rofaq6.htm >
AP tap water filter
hello, I have been using the tap water filter for a while now and have been very
impressed. but some say that the water quality isn't that great. what do you think? my water is
relatively clean, although its very hard.
< We need to define terms here. Filters remove things from the water. Different filters remove different things and your impressions may depend on what things you are trying to remove from your water. If want to remove chlorine then a carbon filter will work fine for awhile and it will be better for your fish than water that has not been through a carbon filter. If you are keeping hard water fish such as rift lake cichlids then your water sounds perfectly fine and that is all the filtration you will need. If you want to soften your water by removing minerals then you need to go to an
R.O., deionization, or distillation to remove these minerals for fishes that require softer more acidic water.-Chuck>
-Jared
Need RO Unit?
Bob Fenner,
<Stephanie>
I have a quandary that I'm hoping you can help with. I cant seem to get a straight answer on whether or not I need to consider an RO Unit for my tap
water. I'm keeping mostly Clown Loaches (about ten 4" guys and one 9" - 10" guy) and 1 relatively large (about a foot long)
Arowana in a 135 gallon tank. (As an aside, My husband is toying with the idea of starting a discus
tank, not that our tap water is conducive to discus at all. But that's not my current problem). The clown loaches I've read can be very sensitive to
water quality. So I finally was able to get a hold of a consumer confidence report from my local water company. The measurements I am going to rattle
off here are the highest levels found:
PH 9.3 <Yeeikes>
Nitrate 4.23ppm <Yowzah, out of the tap?>
Nitrite .02ppm
Hardness (as CaCo3) 246ppm
Sodium 59ppm
Sulphate 23ppm
TDS 384ppm
Aluminum 1024ppb
Chloride 139ppm
Arsenic 1.2ppb
Barium .13ppm
Copper .09 ppm
Lead 10.7ppb
<Umm, you are indeed a candidate>
I've also attached a copy of the water report, in case I'm not reading this properly. But after looking at those numbers... (if I'm reading it
correctly) I'm really feeling like I should be getting my butt out to the local Home Depot and
getting an RO unit for my fish. But all the LFS keep
telling me its an unnecessary expense for a freshwater tank. Can you please give me your opinion, it would be greatly appreciated!!
<If it were me, my source water I would at least "blend" some treated water (and likely reverse osmosis would be the technology employed)... and mix, circulate the new water a good week before using (in a dedicated plastic trash can...), AND I would utilize the RO water source for my drinking, cooking uses. Bob Fenner, whose wife's family are from northern NJ and have great potable water>
<<NJersey Water Report.pdf>>
Thanks,
Stephanie Koll
- How Do I... RO? -
how do I operate my R.O. unit? <Should be fairly simple - water goes in
one end, waste water and product water come out the other two.>
with the control valve open or shut? <Not at all sure what this valve is or
what purpose it serves.>
I have the bare bones unit that makes 35 gallons a day thanks for you time.
<Would encourage you to get in touch with the folks you bought this from to
get any clarification you need directly from them. Cheers, J -- >
Reverse Osmosis or DI?
I have a choice of getting local RO or DI water from a local vender. I fill my own jugs. It is cheap. Only .33 per gallon. They don't offer a RO/DI water only one or the other. The DI water is filtered through carbon before going through the DI unit. At this point I do not have the funds to buy my own unit so filling my own jugs works best for me. My question is, "Of the two choices (RO or DI) is one better than the other for a marine reef tank? I have been using RO but was told DI has less phosphates and silicates in it?
<Hi, I would test both and see. RO doesn't typically have more phosphates/silicates, but can depending on the source. Testing what comes from the LFS is the best way to determine if it's worth the money spent. If both are equal in terms of quality, I would opt for the RO water, as it is free of particles and is likely a more pure finished product. But, with all RO water you must add a buffer. Good luck, Ryan>
The Water Store
>Hi, how are you my question is with regards to storing water for water
changes.
>>Hi I'm fine you can ask away right here I can help you.
>I have a 20 gallon tank just for making up my water changes I have a 55 gallon
reef tank, I change 10% a week approx: 5 gallons. So I have enough
make up water good for 4 water changes( 4 weeks worth).
>>Ok.
>What I didn't realize only until I read on your site is that it is not good
to store water for more than one week that it goes bad or something,
is this correct?
>>Um, certainly not in my experience! With proper aeration and
cover mixed saltwater can be kept easily for a month. You would want
to bring it up to temperature a day or two ahead of the water change, though it
may be easier to just keep a heater in it. That, and a powerhead or
airstone (keep covered well to avoid salt creep, otherwise stick with the
powerhead positioned to allow for good surface turbulence).
>What I do is fill up my container with 20 gallons of tap water aerate with a
airstone a powerhead for 2 days, then I add the salt and aerate for another 2
days with a heater check pH. Can you advise me is this is the correct
procedure?
>>Sounds fine to me, although I'm more likely to just mix the water up
with a dechlorinator (sodium thiosulfate is quite cheap in large quantities off
the web) and keep it that way. I'd also be more inclined to just use
a trash can, lined with black plastic bags, rather than using a perfectly good
aquarium.
>I am just trying to cut down on the work of making the water weekly. Sorry
for carrying on, also by using this method do I still need to add
dechlorinators, or will the chlorines/ chloramines dissipate by aerating for a
couple of days?
>>Chlorine will dissipate within a day or two easily (if left uncovered),
chloramines are another kettle of fish entirely, as the bond with ammonia
prevents this dissipation (and is the reason why water municipalities use it!).
>Also do you think a lot of other toxins will dissipate with this method, in
other words make tap water better?
>>No.
>Thanks for your help great site I have learned a lot.
Regards, Val - Toronto, Canada.
>>You're welcome. Marina
Permeate pump vs. booster pump 4/1/04
Hi, wanted to say thanks for helping me ID the problem with my
fish last week. I appreciate the response, as always.
<We are always glad to help!>
I've been checking your website to see if I could find some info. on ro/di unit
"add-on" pumps but couldn't seem to find any posts relating to this
question: I'm in the process of trying to purchasing an ro/di unit and I can't
decide which of these pumps I should get, either a permeate pump or a booster
pump. I am not happy with the amount of waste water that the typical
ro/di units
produce so I want to purchase (one of) the pumps to cut down on the waste water. I
found 2 separate vendors, each of course only selling one of the pumps, so each
of them told me I needed their type of pump and not the other. Can
you offer some guidance as to which pump would be more beneficial as
far as helping to reduce waste water, filling tank quickly. Thanks
<If you have good water pressure, I would probably choose a permeate pump. It
will increase the amount of "good" water produced by improving the
ratio of "good" to waste. Permeate pumps work on the
pressure of your waste water and will not help if you have low water pressure. If
you have low water pressure, I would choose a booster pump. Booster
pumps improve output by simply forcing more water through the membrane. Unless
your water pressure is low, this won't have a huge effect on the ratio of
"good" water to wasted water. Also, booster pumps run on
electricity while permeate pumps use water pressure.>
Jan oh, any idea on when Reef Inverts 2 is going to be
released?...anxiously awaiting...
<The next book in the Natural Marine Aquarium Series will be "Reef
Fishes". As far as I know, no release date has been announced. Best
Regards. Adam>
Water Softeners
Hello!
I love this site (so much information!) but I can't seem to find the answer to my question. Exactly WHY
are water softeners (the kind that uses salt exchange) not recommended for freshwater tanks? I have a friend
who I have tried to warn against this but she won't accept just "it accumulates chloride ions"....and
sometimes I wonder too....(here's the dummy part....we are talking about salt right?) because if you're using
the water for water changes, you would be removing as much as you are putting in, right? Not good I'm sure
for top offs, but otherwise wouldn't the levels stay the same? And if this is true, then the salt level in
your tank couldn't be that high could it? Around the same level as people who use the teaspoon of salt per
gallon thing?
Thanks for taking the time to explain this!! Barbara
< Ok here goes. The resin in water softeners uses the sodium (Na+) ions in the
salt (NaCl) to exchange with the Calcium ions (Ca++) in the water. So now you water is not as hard but now it has lots of sodium which is not good for fish. To truly soften water you do need to remove the calcium and magnesium ions with a reverse osmosis unit that removes the hard water ions by forcing the water through a membrane that only allows
the water molecules through and leaves the others behind. Another method would be
deionization. The water runs through a two types of resins that attracts both the positively charged and negatively charged ions leaving essentially neutral water. Distilled water uses evaporation to leave the ions behind while it condenses into pure water. If you just added tap water all the time without doing water changes then the minerals in the water would accumulate and become higher than the water source, unless they were utilized by plants. This is an over simplification but this is how it works.-Chuck>
De-ionization recommendation 3/28/04
Hi all at WetWeb,
<cheers>
Could you give me information on possible deionization systems that are
available commercially and your opinion of them? I will soon be
expanding my coral propagation biz, and I'm looking at the deionization factor
rather than going with RO again due to the great amount of waste water generated
by RO systems.
<agreed very much. "tis what I did for my coral farm>
Many thanks, Peggy Nelson. AquaCorals
<my long-standing fave (have bought 3 units in 10 years) is for the Kati Ani
brand (the larger models simply go longer between recharges). Seek from Dr
Fosters And Smith or Gwynnbrook Farms (MD discus hatchery). Anthony>\
Deionization systems 3/28/04
Hi Anthony,
<hey, Peggy>
Many thanks for your response on DI systems. We will soon be moving
to a location with more space for expansion of my coral propagation endeavor.
It's very exciting. My good friend, Penny, at AquaCorals in Maine,
has had requests for wholesale purchases of tank-raised corals and has forwarded
them to me for future response. I look forward to the possibilities!
<outstanding friendship/business... you will both go far in life with such
healthy outlooks>
Unfortunately, she and I are a long distance apart or would surely be working
together!
<ah, but the Internet in part bridges that gap amazingly>
Thanks again for your response. You are a good man. Peggy
<thank you my friend... wishing you the very best. Anthony>
Setup Revisited
Hello and thank you for the great advice your site is great for information.
<You're welcome! Ryan with you again> And of course I have a couple of
questions. <No worries>
1. How many stage RO water filter system is good. I figure the higher the better
but what would be sufficient? <You can get away with less if your source
water is better- and vice versa. I use a 5 Stage RO unit, and paid
less about 150.> And do I need the Osmosis Deionization DI)? Is there a
difference between the Reverse Osmosis Drinking Water Systems vs. the regular
water systems? The 4 stage drinking water systems are much cheaper then the 4
stage water filter systems. <I believe that the difference is in the actual
filters used- I use one that is good for drinking water without any
problems.>
2. Is there a difference between using a glass fish tank for my sump vs. a Rubbermaid
container? I heard I could use either but are there pros and cons to each or
which is better? <Depends on the application used- Glass tanks will need to
be drilled for bulkheads, Rubbermaid's can be drilled at home. Glass
is easier to clean, Rubbermaid requires less cleaning. I would use
whichever will allow for more volume. See ya, Ryan>
Thank You,
Jason
- Deionization Systems -
Hi all at WetWeb,
Could you give me information on possible deionization systems that are
available commercially and your opinion of them? <Hmm... difficult task.
There are simply too many brands and too many becoming available to know them
all... for the most part all use the same technology. Doubt there are many true
differences between the various units available to the hobbyist.> I will soon
be expanding my coral propagation biz, and I'm looking at the deionization
factor rather than going with RO again due to the great amount of waste water
generated by RO systems. <Would work with a commercial water purification
company to design/install this.>
Many thanks,
Peggy
AquaCorals
<Cheers, J -- >
R/O Waste (3/25/04)
If I got an R/O unit with a deionizer built in would there be
any waste water? <Uh, lots. Depending on the quality of your tapwater, count
on losing at least a couple of gallons (perhaps twice that) for each gallon you
make.> My problem is that I live at home and my mom doesn't like
to waste water... or pay for the waste. <Can be expensive in places. Could
you put the waste to use in a garden?> Any less expensive units worth the
money with minimum waste water (gpd is not very important)? <Not
less expensive. Check out Kold-Ster-il at http://www.poly-bio-marine.com/products.htm Consider
posting your dilemma on the chat forum at www.wetwebfotos.com to get input form
others.> Thanks...again and again, etc. <Hope this helps. Steve Allen.>
Purifier (RO) question 3/13/04
Hi, I'm looking to buy a RO/DI water filtration system and found
this on the web. Do you have any experience with this
website? and would have an opinion regarding this water
purification system? It seems like a great
deal. They also sell another water purifier that is three
stages and I was interested in. I've got a 30 g reef tank
and don't want to go overboard! But would certainly
appreciate any advice. Thanks, Ben http://www.inreef.com/xcart/customer/product.php?productid=16175&cat=0&page=
<I have not done business with this company, but it looks like a great
deal! The thing to be cautious about is the membrane, and DOW are
quality membranes. Best Regards. Adam.>
Question RO
Bob:
Can you tell me specifically the compounds USP or salt mixes (not of
commercial use, but laboratory grade) I should use to prepare RO water for
tropical fish community tank and their amounts per litter? To be more
specific which particular electrolytes is RO water lacking of and must be
added (brand new tank) in order to keep fish OK? I'll use sodium phosphate
buffering system (Na2HPO4 - NaH2PO4).
Thank you in advance,
Manuel (Mexico)
<Manuel, what fishes, that is, which species? Are you using RO because your
tapwater is just too solute laden? If so, you might do well to simply
"blend" some of it back with your treated, RO water. Bob Fenner>
Copper Piping?
hello, been browsing your site: simply excellent! <Simply flattered here:
Ryan with you today> anyway, I searched WWM for this but could find quiet the
answer I am look for. <Gotcha> on one of the many fish forums I post at,
there is somewhat of a debate over whether distilled is safe for reefs because
many of the units contain copper pipes. Can you comment? <have
heard/read many similar debates. Sadly, a large amount of variables
makes each scenario unique. I would certainly use a copper test kit
on anything that had the opportunity to come in contact with
copper. Any greenish rings on the seams of piping would be evidence
of copper. I don't really believe that you can replace RO water with
anything and have similar results.> or point me to the answer?
<yes, actually. Wilkes University does very precise water testing.
http://wilkes.edu/~eqc/homeowner.htm. If
you look around the WWW, you may be able to find this service without
charge. It would take a lab to convince me that it's
safe! But then again, I'm a little paranoid ;) Good
luck, and if you find good articles, evidence, send them our way. Ryan>
-Jared
- Total Dissolved Solids -
Hello
Here is a short and sweet question. What should the TDS be in water from an
RO-DI unit?? <I'd expect something close to zero.> I have read on
advertisements that it will create near zero TDS water. I'm not so sure. <Ok.
Cheers, J -- >
How to recharge a deionizer
I've looked and looked but haven't found anyone who will lay out step by
step how to recharge a deionizer. I know you first have to have one that is
rechargeable. any help?
thanks Brian
<Mmmm, well... some resins are recharged with caustic substances... some with
salts... Some can't be economically recharged by simple soaking (require high
pressure, temperature in the process). My real advice is to contact the
manufacturer or barring this, find out the name of the ion-exchange resins in
your unit and search the Net, reference works in a large (college) library re
this issue. Bob Fenner>
RO
Hey,<Howdy!>
Just gettin ready to fill my 125 reef tank and was
wondering, a couple of people are telling me it is a must that I filter my water
with a $300 reverse ionization, osmosis filter ,whew! Is this true. I have well
water, I am in the mountains of upstate New York, have a small reef set-up now,
never filtered before what's the lowdown on this?<I would use a RO unit
they filter out many of the undesirable compounds such as
phosphate. I use one and it has helped out a on with algae outbreaks
and I have pretty clean water to begin with. You can also find lots
of info on our site: www.wetwebmedia.com. Cody>
Thanks for Your Wisdom,
Louie
Chloramines in Question
Hi- <Hello! Ryan Bowen with you>
Hope you had a nice weekend!! <Rainy days provide the perfect excuse to frag
some corals! Very nice thank you>
Do you know if it is necessary to treat deionized water with "Prime"
for removing chlorine and chloramine? <Chloramine certainly...Prime works, as
do other less pricey products. Some people skip this step, claiming
that a week's storage time allow adequate time for nasties to dissipate...I
don't buy it. Too much invested.> I figure that if I don't need it
, why add one more thing into the system. <I share your hesitance.
Dechlorinators, and 2 part supplements are generally the only things that ever
go in my display tank.> I also notice that when I buffer the
deionized water and aerate for a day or so, and before adding salt, that my
mixing tub surfaces get crusted over with some white substance. Any idea what it
would be? <Various soluble that have settled. Good luck! Ryan>
Thank you in advance Dennis
Distilled Water
Would an ordinary household type water distiller produce water of a good
enough quality to use for top off and salt mix?
<Certainly better than tap water. Be sure to use a dechlorinator,
and prepare the water properly.
http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm>
Distilled H2O
Wow speedy reply!
<Well don't jinx it! Ryan here again>
OK I'm assuming the dechlorinator would be used prior to distillation, and
that the reason would be because the chlorine is volatile enough to distill
with the water and still be in the distilled water?
<More a back-up step. I would distill the water, then when done
add both salt & conditioner with a powerhead for at least 24 hours.>
Rather than use chemicals, would aerating and circulating for 24 hours
prior achieve the same result? <Yes, possibly. But most city water
supplies contain lethal amount of chlorine/chloramine to aquatic life...I like
to be sure.>
Also, you said "certainly better than tap water". Does this mean it is
still not as good as RO water? <Yes, RO water would be ideal>
Really I am just thinking about saving a few bucks, if I could use water
from the distiller, I would not have to keep buying RO filtration stuff.
<RO is actually more affordable now than ever. Compared to other
aquarium purchases, it's one of the few I guarantee will benefit just about
anyone's tank. Good luck! Ryan>
KATI/ANI Unit Woes
Hello one and all-
<Twice in one day! Back again, Ryan>
I was looking you some advice from you fine people. I had recently purchased a Kati/Ani
unit for my 125gal fowler(170gal total system). System has been running for 2
years. I have 2 MAG 12 pumps for circulating the water.
For new water when I was using the deionizer) I add "Prime" chlorine
remover, aerate, heat for a few days, then add salt then buffer if needed. I
would check ph and alk. I have had dozens of snails in the tank for
about a year and now they have almost all died over the past 2 months. Plus my
xenia that had been growing like a weed just fell apart. Now the tank has turned
into a huge Cyanobacteria farm. All I can think of that has changed is using the
new Kati/Ani unit. The resin in the unit has only changed color about 1/3 of the
way after running a hundred or so gallons thru it, so I don't think that the
resins would be a problem. Plus I have a monitor on the
water output. I am thinking maybe my process for treating the deionized water is
flawed somehow and a ph or alkalinity swing has killed off the snails and
xenia. Could you share with me how you would suggest preparing and
testing it?
<I have never used a KATI/ANI unit, but I found a great article about
preparing water using one:
http://www.pmas.org/pro/ credit due to Mr.
Steven Pro, of course. His steps are detailed, efficient, and his
success evident.>
I have read before that using "Prime" chlorine remover can make some
water tests inaccurate? Would it throw of my ph and alk tests? <Never heard
this, perhaps the manufacturer can verify? Message boards like ReefCentral.com
chemistry forum would be your best bet on this type of subject.>
I also upgraded from a Berlin turbo skimmer to a Precision Marine Bullet 1.
Easily get a cup a week of pretty dark skimmate. <Great>
Are there any tips you might have for using a deionizer? I have
|
