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FAQs on Tap/Source Water Use for Marine Aquariums,
Rationale/Science Related
Articles: Treating Tap water for Marine
Aquarium Use, Water Purification
Using Reverse Osmosis,
Related FAQs: Treating Tapwater 1,
Treating Tapwater 2, Treating
Tapwater 3, & FAQs on New Water Treatment:
Chemicals (Chlorine, Chloramines, Trihalomethanes...),
Filtrants, Techniques/Tools,
Testing, Troubleshooting,
Products by Manufacturer/Brand, DIY
Treatment Chemicals/Tools, &
Reverse Osmosis Filtration, Specific
Gravity, Water Purification Using R.O 1.
RO/DI 2, RO/DI 3,
Nitrates, Water Changes, | .JPG)
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Algae Problems (Tap Water
Filtration) – 06/12/09
Good Afternoon,
<<Hello Jackie>>
I have had a reef tank for over two years, and I am having major issues
with Cyanobacteria and green hair algae.
<<Mmm, yes…and seems to be common issues seen by most hobbyists. I take
it you have perused our site re>>
My tap water reads at 46 ppm. Is that considered high?
<<Not at all… I consider my own tap water with a TDS of about 80ppm to
be low…and have known some others to be 400+… But do realize that the
Total Dissolved Solids in your tap water is not a full indication as to
the toxicity present. It is best to perform tests for Ammonia, Nitrite,
Nitrate, Phosphate, et al to see what and how much is truly present>>
Would it be that beneficial to invest in an RO/DI machine to help
resolve these issues?
<<With marine systems…and especially reef systems…a good water
filtration device for filtering your tap water, like a RO/DI unit, is
always a benefit in my opinion. So more to the point here… Yes, if your
tap water is a source of nutrients for the nuisance alga, a RO/DI unit
will help>>
Your opinion is always valued.
Thanks,
Jackie
<<Happy to share… EricR>>
Water Quality
I've been using an RO system for my water in my
reef and everything is fine. My Question is when setting up or
maintaining a reef is bottled water just as good? What's the difference
between the RO I'm using and the bottled Drinking water some people have
delivered to their house?
<Mmm, there is a huge variation in what
goes as "bottled water"... a good deal of these products are reverse
osmosis run tap... The biggest difference to me is cost. Bottled water
is hundreds of times more money than make it yourself RO... not counting
gas et al. to get it, the time and trouble to lug it about. Please read:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm
Bob Fenner>
Thanks Dean Mikulla Re: Water Quality
Thanks for the
help. I'm working for a Maintenance company and I'm kind of the "reef
guy". I know how to take care of my own reef ,but it's in the living
room of my own house. Successively Taking care of reefs that I'm only at
twice a month is my newest problem. Thanks again for the advice. Dean M.
<Having done this myself for years (though years back) I can/do
empathize... always a "holiday" to re-visit accounts. We had reef
systems on a minimum of once a week schedules... often two, even three
times visits a week. Bob Fenner> It's The Water!
A while
back I think I remember you advising someone to buy water
labeled "drinking water" from Wal-Mart, etc. to use in their saltwater
aquariums if they were on well water or had otherwise unacceptable tap
water.
<Hmm?>
Does water labeled "drinking water" contain
chlorine?
<I'm not sure if there is some FDA standards that water
needs to conform with to be labeled "drinking water", but I'd hazard a
guess that most water bottled for human consumption contains some
chlorine, and possibly other things that are not so good for fishes.>
Would I still have to dechlorinate it?
<I'd err on the side of
caution. Frankly, I'd look for a source of reverse osmosis water, if you
can. "Drinking Water" or "Spring Water" are rather vague descriptions
for our purposes. I'm sure that the water would work if you use a water
preparation product, such as Kordon's Amquel, and maybe run a filter
with some activated carbon in the water before it's use>
Also, is
saltwater poured down the drain harmful to septic systems?
<I'd
definitely check with your septic system service first on that one>
Thanks very much. Linda from the sticks of South Carolina
<Hope that
I was able to clear up a few things, or provoke some more questions!
Take Care, Scott F.> Water Workings
Hi
<Good Evening!
Scott F. here>
I know you get this type of question all the time,
please bare with me. I'm about to begin the process of owning a salt
water aquarium. For now, my question is regarding water. Treating tap
water with the products from PetSmart pet store for the initial setup is
a good idea. If so which products should I use? Can you give an
suggestion?
<Really depends upon the type of water that you have, pH,
chlorine/chloramine content, etc. In general, its a good idea to start
by testing your tap water for nitrate, phosphate, and possibly silicate.
Concentrations of heavy metals, such as copper, may be present in tap
water in certain areas. If you're going use tap water, ideally, you
should use a commercial dechlorinator product, such as Kordon's Novaqua
or Amquel, and filter the tapwater with activated carbon. See the link
http://wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm for more information on treating
tapwater.>
If not which type of RO filter should I purchase that
would be adequate for keeping reef and fish aquarium. There so many
types 1-9 stages filters. It very confusing.
<There are many
possibilities, depending on your pocketbook and the degree to which your
tapwater needs to be treated. Usually, a 3 stage RO/DI system is
sufficient, but there are all sorts of add-ons to remove undesirables
like silica, etc. More expensive, but less wasteful than RO is a
deionizer, which produces great quality water with no waste. best to
consult with your local water department to get an H20 quality report,
then decide what system makes the most sense for you. Check the
resources on the wetwebmedia.com site for more details on RO/DI, and
other water pre-treatment methods. Good luck!>
thanks you very much
<You're welcome!> Tap Water
Thank you for your help with
my past questions.
This question concerns Tap water and my 55 gallon
reef tank. We have hard water in our area (Jacksonville, Florida) I have
tested our tap water and it turned out surprisingly good. No nitrate or
phosphate. Is it safe to use (once dechlorinated) in my reef tank? I am
trying to encourage coralline algae growth. Thank you, Andrew
< My
pat answer to this question remains the same: Yes, in all cases where
you would drink and cook with the tapwater, it is fine to use in
marine/reef systems. There is more solids, nutrient base, sources of
pollution to be had in salt mixes, foods, decor, ordinary aerosols in
the area around the systems than the incidental possible negative
chemical species in tap water. There are some areas in the U.S. and
abroad where I would not use the tap for drinking or pet-fish... There I
would utilize reverse osmosis filtration.
Bob Fenner> Out of
function Water Conditioners, retail in general
Now you have me
feeling real guilty. Every time I go to work now, I wonder what the hell
I am doing. I work at the LFS. I just read one of your articles on
De-chlorinators "water conditioners". I know you could not give names on
the web site. But please tell me what the phony brands of conditioners
are. I do not want to sell these any more to my customers.
<Good for
you... look for the ones that "only" have sodium thiosulfate/ sulfite in
them... these won't work on chloramines... like the old Weco products
(which we're great in the years of chlorine use as a disinfect of
tapwater>
We have so much **** in my store. I probably suggest and
sell 10% of the junk we sell.
<Ahh! Time to identify and trade out,
discount, get rid of anything that doesn't turn (sell of course) at
least four times a year (unless it's more of a display item... like
tanks, stands perhaps)... Free up your working capital, save space, and
your peace of mind!>
You have been most helpful and I have truly
learned much for you and the Wet Web Media crew. And, If you have time
could you explain how the so called "slime coat enhancers" work (or
don't work for that matter) in these dechlorinators? How do they affect
and eventually kill the fish?
<Some are "simple coaters", adding a
bit to the proteinaceous (non cellular) coating on fishes (more slime),
others spur the fishes to produce a bit more mucin... they're transient
in effect... analogous to a band-aid you might put on a child's cut...
and don't kill the fishes. Bob Fenner>
Thank you so much
Water Prep...Some Things Are Best Done Yourself - 06/21/06
Hi
Crew, how's tricks?
<<Hiya Debi!>>
I have been reading a lot to
find it and see no specific answer to this question and am pretty
confused at this point so I decided that I should write.
<<Mmm okay,
let's see if I can help...>>
First here are the parameters: Six
months old 46 gallon Bowfront reef with one frogspawn, one xenia, one
lawnmower blenny and one sand sifting goby (who sifts his sand onto the
live rock),
<<A big reason I prefer Amblygobius species for
this...not so bad with "crop dusting" the top of the reef>>
one
cleaner shrimp, various snails and red- and blue-legged snails and
crabs.
<<Snails with legs, eh? <grin> >>
50 lbs. live rock,
Ammonia-0, Ph 8.2, Alk 3.0, Calcium 440, Phos (reads 0) probably being
taken up by algae,
<<Yup>>
Nitrate-0, Nitrite-0, SG 1.023
<<I would raise the specific gravity to natural seawater levels
(1.025/1.026)>>
Temp 79-80, Aqua-C Remora skimmer HOB going 24/7,
Seio 620 Power Head, Aqua-Clear Power Filter running Chemi-Pure and
Phos-Ban, also has a sponge that is cleaned every few days. My problem
is with my water preparation. I buy my water from the LFS, both salt
and RO/DI for top off. After much reading I am afraid I am not doing it
correctly.
<<Oh?>>
I don't do anything to it before using either
one.
<<If the LFS has prepared/stored it correctly you shouldn't
have to>>
I just put it in. Sometimes, actually most of the time, I
hold the water for several days before using it, especially the top-off
water.
<<Aerated during this time?>>
Am I supposed to be
preparing it in some way like aeration or buffering before I use it?
<<Ahh, okay... Firstly, let me suggest you test this water for
alkalinity/calcium/pH...test it right after purchase, and then again
after at least 24 hours with aeration. This should give you an idea of
whether or not the LFS is "maturing" the water before sale. But
anyhoo... Yes, I would aerate this water for 24 hours before use...and
buffer "as needed" based on your test results>>
I have consistently
sort of low Alkalinity even though I add either B-Ionic 2-part or baking
soda to try to get it up higher.
<<Odd>>
The calcium is usually
around 440 and this is without the addition of the 2-part of any other
type of calcium.
<<Hmm...seems artificially high for freshly mixed
seawater. I wonder if the LFS is boosting (or overdosing, in this case)
with a calcium chloride supplement? Which might also be suppressing
your alkalinity>>
My pH is usually about 8.1 to 8.3 or 8.4 toward
the evening.
<<All good>>
I would like to keep it around 8.4 at
the lowest.
<<Often a difficult endeavor, but dosing
Kalkwasser may help here>>
I also have a raging hair algae problem
and have no explanation for this.
<<Mmm, let me make an amendment to
my earlier suggestion...in addition to the afore mentioned tests of the
water from the LFS, add tests for nitrate and phosphorus>>
I have
tested the LFS water that I use and it shows no phosphates
<<I
really should start reading ahead...>>
and since I am not really
feeding at this point due to my lack of fish that need it I don't feel
that nutrients are a problem, although I also recently have some brown
on the sand that I assume is diatoms.
<<Likely so>>
I have no
idea what can be causing all this algae.
<<Something in the water
would be my guess...how do you feel about filtering/preparing your
own?>>
I do 15% water changes weekly, so far as vacuuming the sand,
I go back and forth on that and so have only done it once in the six
months I have had this tank running.
<<Not usually necessary with
vigorous water movement...in my opinion>>
I tend to get mixed advice
on whether or not I should be vacuuming. The sand bed I have is only 1
to 1-1/2 inches in most places.
<<With this substrate depth I say
"up to you!"...though a bit of vacuuming with water changes may prove
helpful with your current algae situation>>
So I want to know if I
should be doing the water differently and do you think it is making a
difference in my alkalinity, calcium and pH?
<<Yes, yes, yes...and
yes>>
Also if you have any more suggestions on the algae problem I
would love to hear them.
<<Have you read here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/avoidingalgaeproblesm.htm),
and among the indices at the top of the page?>>
Thanks,
Debi
<<Quite welcome, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things Are Best
Done Yourself II - 06/22/06
Thanks for the reply.
<<You're
welcome>>
Yes, I think I may have read everything on this site,
well, I obviously couldn't have, but it sure seems like it.
<<Hee!...truly "gads" of information to be found here>>
I have spent
many many many hours reading what you guys
<<gals too!>>
have to
say and find it most helpful.
<<...but...>>
In answer to your
question on my filtering and processing my own water. I really have no
place to do that as I have read that the RO/DI systems are very slow and
I have no faucets I can dedicate to that.
<<Mmm...it is true the RO
systems are "pokey" (even my 100gpd system requires "all day" to fill a
55g drum), but a "dedicated" water source is hardly required. A simple
adapter can be utilized to attach/run the unit from "any" faucet as/when
convenient. Another option is to use a quality Kati-Ani deionization
unit which produces filtered water at a much greater rate than an RO
unit>>
I live in a large metropolis area and have a choice of LFS to
choose from and have used at least two of them in this endeavor.
<<Yet you are still having issues...>>
As you see I have tested
their water, both of them, for phosphates, not nitrates.
<<Might be
worth a test for NO3>>
But, I do not aerate their water and did not
even know it was something I should do until now. Yes, I do hold it on
a regular basis for several days with no aeration. So I gather I should
not do that?
<<I doubt this is cause for all your water
ills, but aeration will be beneficial for increasing oxygen, better
mixing/maturation of "raw" seawater, and blowing off carbon dioxide (and
possibly raising pH as a result)>>
I don't see what that could have
to do with the algae though.
<<You stated yourself, you have no
fish/don't overfeed...if the source of algae fuel is not the water, then
what?...your rock?...your substrate?>>
So here is my plan based on
what you have suggested. I will do several 15% water changes, say two
to three days apart. I will vacuum the sand substrate. Is it
acceptable to scrub the rocks of the hair algae while they are in the
tank?
<<Using the hose to siphon away the algae as you
scrub?...sure!>>
The worst ones can't be removed without tearing
down the tank and disturbing the two corals a lot.
<<understood>>
I have given thought to getting a "sea hare", would that help.
<<Genus Aplysiidae? Possibly...and much more so than the more commonly
available Tridachia crispata aka "lettuce nudibranch". Though I have
always found the sea hare to be prone to physical damage and its
subsequent demise. A better biological control might be Turbo
fluctuosa, the giant Mexican turbo snail...or even one of the Salarias
or Atrosalarias blennies>>
I recently changed LFS water suppliers
thinking that would help, but I swear it got worse after that, so I am
going back to the original.
<<Hmm...>>
This particular one uses
Seachem Reef Salt but only keeps it at 1.022.
<<A fine salt brand>>
I was thinking I should add salt to bring it up to 1.025, would that be
better?
<<Yes>>
Also, let me make sure I understand. The RO/DI
water should be at the correct pH before it goes in the tank?
<<It
should...else the water in your tank has to make up for the
deficiency...if it can>>
What is the best way to bring up the pH and
should the alkalinity be brought up also?
<<BOTH should be
adjusted. I like Seachem Reef Buffer...and for economy, I have found
that "cutting" this with 3-parts sodium bicarbonate to 1-part buffer is
quite satisfactory>>
I don't think the LFS is adding anything to
their salt mixture other than the salt itself. The current one uses
Seachem Reef Plus I think. The former used Fritz?.
<<Mmm, not familiar to me>>
I really appreciate your help as I am
just about to throw this thing out the window thinking that would at
least get rid of the algae. Maybe you can help me come up with a better
solution.
Thanks again,
Debi
<<I want to help Debi, but you
haven't mentioned anything to raise any flags to me other than I think
your water source may be suspect. Are you adding any liquid coral
foods?...other "supplements" you haven't mentioned? After reading
through the data on nuisance algae on our site, what's "your" take on
the cause of the algae problem?...let's discuss further if you
wish. Regards, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things
Are Best Done Yourself III - 06/24/06
Thanks for your patience
and willingness to keep at this.
<<Quite welcome>>>>
I have
indeed read everything on the algae subject and am truly stumped. I
thought at first, a couple of months ago, that I was getting to much bad
stuff because I was adding the frozen food and its juice when feeding.
<<A small contributor...in my opinion>>
I used to have fish, well I
had two clowns, one royal Gramma, one yellow tang (but he only lasted
hours so I think he was sick when I got him), and a six-lined wrasse.
All died mysteriously and at different times and after being in the tank
for various times from a few days for the Gramma and the wrasse
(different times) to a few weeks for the clowns, (that died at different
times after just going downhill for several days and then keeling over).
<<This is telling...either you have more serious issues with your water,
something in the system is poisoning the system (something in the rock
or substrate maybe), or your source for these fish was/is bad (did all
the fish come from the same LFS?)>>
Several emails to your site and
several people trying, but never got an answer to that.
<<Do
consider my previous statement...thinks about any links/correlations to
the dying fish>>
All agreed that my tests were right on target and I
was apparently doing everything right, but obviously something was bad.
<<Have you tried new/different brand test kits to validate your
findings?>>
So, I decided not to add any more fish until I had let
it sit just the way it is for several weeks and until I got the algae
problem under control.
<<Smart...is best...>>
It has now been
about five weeks since the last clown died and the blenny and the goby
and the corals have all been here all along and seem to be doing
perfectly fine.
<Hmm...did the blenny and goby come from the same
source?...did they come from the same source as the fish that died?>>
The only things I could ever come up with is that being new and not
thinking I know I had perfume on my arms at least once when I was
messing around in the tank and decided that maybe I had poisoned
somebody,
<<A possibility...>>
and once I cleaned up a Cyano
problem and let a lot of get mixed into the water, again inexperience,
and shortly after that my clowns got sick so maybe that was something.
<<I don't think this killed your fish>>
Otherwise I have not a
clue. So, back to the original problem. My suspicion is that it has to
be the water, but when I test it tests fine.
<<Maybe something you
haven't/can't test for>>
I take it to the LFSs and they all say it
is great.
<<Again, maybe something not tested/can't be tested with
hobby kits. Have/can you confirm that they/you store the water in
suitable, clean, chemically inert containers?>>
I have no
temperature fluctuations, I know this because I
have the heaters on
a controller. My lights are on for 12 hours total, the actinics come on
one hour before the main lights and go off one hour after the main
lights do, so actually 10 hours of main lights.
<<is fine>>
I
have the Coralife 2x96 compact fluorescents w/lunar lights. I do
regular 10% weekly water changes and top-off as needed. It's true I am
not feeding anything to speak of right now. The only extra nutrients
are the very occasional (less than I should I think) addition of 10 ml.
DT's for the frogspawn and every few days a few Mysis shrimps (probably
10 or 15) for the shrimp that
he practically eats out of my hand so
maybe 4 or 5 individual Mysis shrimps get away.
<<I doubt also this
is your problem. But an observation here...the DT's is of little use to
the frogspawn. Being a carnivore it will much prefer the Mysis/diced
meaty foods. I would discontinue dosing the DT's...at least till you
have need of it (clams/gorgonians)>>
So I don't know what to do. I
do wonder though, if everything
is normal now and for some reason
wasn't before would the hair algae that is already there go away on its
own or would I have to physically remove it?
<<Generally requires a
combination of manual removal along with cessation of excess
nutrient/food. Maybe just speculation but I've heard it theorized that
in large quantities, many nuisance alga can generate/manufacture enough
nutrients to sustain themselves...thus where physical removal comes in>>
Oh yeah, I have an Aqua-C Remora Skimmer that seems to be working well.
<<Indeed...a quality/suitably-sized skimmer for this system>>
Also,
the calcium does stay high on it's on and I know that's weird too.
<<You have little in the tank to utilize it, and with your aggressive
water change schedule you likely won't see a fall in levels>>
Maybe
I should try yet another LFS, like I said, I have many to choose from in
this area.
<<Is worth doing...>>
Thanks,
Debi
<<Work on
clearing up the nuisance algae, then we can revisit the fish issues
(this might be as simple as getting your fish from another
store). Regards, EricR>> Water Prep...Some Things Are Best
Done Yourself IV - 06/24/06
Ok, yes the fish that died all came
from the same source, but the goby came from there also. The blenny
came from another source. The store I got the dead fish from has a very
good reputation and many many people buy both water and fish from there
with no complaints. I think I would know about unhappy people if there
were many because of our local marine aquarium organization. Surely
there would be something on the site if this store was
a problem.
<<Even the best stores can get a shipment of livestock that has been
mishandled. Please understand this Debi, it's not my intention to
malign the store(s) from which you make your purchases. I'm simply
providing feedback/comments/possibilities based on the information you
provide. In the end it's up to you to use your own good judgment to
determine what is wrong and what plan of action to follow>>
No, I
personally haven't tried different test kits, but yes different ones
have been used since the LFS stores, neither one, uses the same test
kits and I have stood there personally many times and watched them test
my water with identical results to mine, unless as you say there could
be something we can't test for. Then how would I know?
<<Likely you
wouldn't>>
If that was the case wouldn't the other things have died
also?
<<Not necessarily...possible differences in
tolerance/sensitivity ...levels of health at time of exposure...>>
If I don't need the DT's can you tell me how I feed the frogspawn?
<<Can easily be "target" fed when the feeding tentacles are extended>>
Will it eat the Mysis shrimp, whole little ones like the frozen?
<<Yes>>
Where is it's mouth?
<<Lightly "dust" the animal with
the Mysis shrimp a couple times a week when it expresses its feeding
tentacles...it will do the rest>>
I know I sound pretty ignorant but
I've never seen a mouth on it and so have no idea how to feed it.
<<The mouth (or mouths) is not readily visible, but you don't need to
see it to feed this animal. And...your knowledge of this
animal/husbandry (and most all else) is easily expanded by a Google
search re on our site/the net in general. Start by reading here and
among the indices at the top of the page:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/caryophyllids.htm>>
So far as the
storage of the water at my local stores, these are large popular stores
that people use all the time so yes the storage is just as it should
be. Again, the local club would know and not use them and lots do, very
large club covering much area so they shop all around the city.
<<Have you consulted the club on your problems? Asked about any
experiences similar to yours?>>
I got a Sea Hare today, Apsiladae
genus or however it is spelled,
<<Genus>>
really ugly.
<<Interesting creatures>>
Hopefully he will help me with the algae.
<<My fingers are crossed>>
So, if you would kindly let me know on
the feeding of the frogspawn I will continue to work on the algae and
leave you alone for a while.
<<No bother Debi...this is what we do>>
Thanks so much,
Debi
<<Cheers my friend, EricR>>
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