SW gravel vacuuming 10/10/05
Hi Again Mr. Fenner,
I read on WWM about the cleaning of live sand during a water change. Again I do have an undergravel filter in there and whether or not it's actually doing anything, I'd like to keep it clean so that I don't encounter the negative factors of the UG filter. So, here's what I found Re: Live Sand.  I was hoping that I would be able use the Python and clean the tank better.
<You can... but "cleanliness is not sterility"... you don't want to "clean" the substrate too well>
I was thinking of just stirring the sand and with a fine net removing the particles that come up out of the sand but I was told that would kill bacteria and produce more nitrate is this true?
<No... consider the alternatives... and their results. Bob Fenner>
So basically are you saying that it is OK to stir up the sand on the substrate to remove debris without killing nitrifying bacteria?
<Mmm, it's okay, just don't be too fastidious>
I have a cleaner shrimp and that star fish and I don't know if they  help with the cleaning process. Besides I'm not sure if any small particulate got trapped in the sand from the UG filter or not, and if so I want to get it out. Being said, if I stir up the sand and all the gunk goes everywhere, then what, am I responsible for trying to get it all out or will it just settle back down and be taken care of  by the inverts? 
Forgive me for being naive in this matter. I have only worked with crushed coral in the past in which I just siphoned and 
most of the stuff trapped in the substrate just slipped up into the hose. Now the sand goes right with the water and debris. I know I shouldn't have an UG filter in my tank especially with reef sand, but it's there, and I really don't want to cause a disaster removing it, 
<You won't... you can siphon it out... replace it, abandon the UG filters, just leave the plates in place...>
so is there anything that you are able to add in order for me to keep it from potentially causing any harm? Again, it seems like a little bit of a different story with live sand, than with gravel or crushed coral.  I know I should search more and I am trying, but I trust and appreciate your direct advice.
Thanks again for everything!
-Jon
<Better for you to search, come to understand the many related issues, side-issues... the "logic" behind WWM is this exactly... to help people gain insights into a/the "big picture"... not really "just what they seemingly want to know right now". Cheers, Bob Fenner> <<Use our Google bar, search on "Marina, deep sand bed, vacuum/ing" and you should find the technique I learned at the Long Beach Aquarium.>> 

When It's Time To Change... (Water, that is!)
Thank you for all the help you guys provide as well as the very informative website you guys put together.  Forgive me if my questions seem too dumb or stupid which is probably why I can't find these in the FAQs. 
<No such thing as a stupid question! Only a stupid answer! Well- maybe not! Scott F with you today!>
My questions are in regards to water changes.
1.When aquarists do water changes, does that mean just siphoning the water out or actually vacuuming the gravel or substrate?
<Well-yes-and-no! How's that? A water change by definition (mine!) is an exchange of existing tank water for newly prepared water of the same quantity. While it's a good practice to siphon out detritus wherever it is found in the tank, it is not mandatory to vacuum the substrate to accomplish a successful water change. In fact, overly aggressive substrate siphoning in (deep) sand beds can damage the very processes that you're trying to foster there!>
2.When doing water changes is it best to siphon water out of the main tank or the sump?  Or does it matter?
<A good question. Since the water in the sump flows through the sump, you are simply removing  water from a different location in the same system! If you are planning on removing detritus from the main tank, then take the water from there. Otherwise, IMO, it's perfectly okay to remove water from the sump (of course, I'd make  sure that pumps are off to avoid damaging them. In fact, detritus does accumulate in sumps, so it's not a bad idea to do this once in a while>    
3. This question kind of relates to #1.  For the people who have reef tanks with deep aquariums and/or intricate light setups in the canopy, how or do they vacuum their substrate?  With all the rocks in the way in the reef tank, deep tanks making it tough for short people, and/or heavy canopies they must take off, it would seem too laborious for them to do especially if they do bi-weekly water changes.  Possibly siphon water one week and vacuum gravel another?
<Another good question! I just ordered a new canopy for this very reason on my main system! It's a real pain getting into a tank with limited access, so lots of aquarists get it right (the second or third try, sometimes!) and design and construct canopies that make life (and maintenance) easier! Your idea is just fine. In the long run, it's still a good idea to obtain or build a lighting system and canopy that allows free access to the tank. The thought is, that the easier the access, the more likely us lazy humans are to do regular maintenance!>
4. A question off the topic.  Will we have an electronic machine in the near future, that has the ability to read multiple things?  (i.e. salinity, ph, alkalinity, medicine levels, etc.) Thank you for reading my questions.
<Absolutely! In fact, some products already exist, such as the Aquadyne line of monitors/controllers, that can monitor, report, and control various pieces of equipment to adjust parameters and alert the aquarist of changes in the system. I have no doubt that, as technology progresses, there will be even more advances in the state-of-the-art! What a cool hobby! What a great time to be alive! I'm stoked! Feel free to contact us any time! Regards, Scott F>

I recently went to a well known marine fish store in my area and was talking to an employee about water changes. she told me I was doing it wrong because I wasn't "vacuuming" the bottom substrate. I was under the impression that you only did this kind of water change with fresh water fish. my friend and I did this vacuuming change to his tank and the water out of the gravel was dark brown. did we do the right thing? should I do this from now on? my substrate is crushed coral. I was previously doing about a 10 gallon water change every two weeks on a 55 gallon tank. filtration is 2 Fluval 403's, UV sterilizer, protein skimmer, 1 bio-wheel, 50 lbs of live rock.
>>
I'm a fan of the periodic "gravel vacuuming and/or stirring" philosophy... I would do this with your regular water changes... but no more than half the tank at an interval (the left side on the mid-month, right at the end of the month...). To keep the system in "dynamic equilibrium" (one of my favorite oxymorons)...
Bob Fenner

Many roads to aquarium success
I have two small (46g & 30g) tanks with live sand and live rock. When the water levels get low, I add just a gallon of straight distilled water.
<Reverse osmosis would be fine, cheaper>
I don't have regular stand-by salt water mixed and ready to go. When I do my 5% water changes every three weeks then I use saltwater that I make fresh. Is it harmful to a system to be just dumping in water like that?
<Not very harmful... five percent is not much>
I have seen no visible signs of harm, my tanks have been up and running for almost a year with no livestock problems. I run powerheads and powerful skimmers only.
<Your success is all that is important, not specific methodologies. Bob Fenner>

Water change and septic
Robert,
I live in the country and have an aerobic/aerated septic system (doesn't use a leach field, sprays out like a sprinkler system). It is suppose to process approx 3,000 gal a month. Would it be a problem to the septic if I flushed my 10 gallons a week water change?
<Mmm, ten gallons out of a few thousand should be fine>
If so, would it be okay to pour out on the lawn or would it kill the grass? I need somewhere to dispose of it, any other ideas if these don't work.
Thanks, I reread your book consistently.
<More than me!>
Lee parker
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>

Sand bed cleaning
I got a question regarding hydro-cleaning a sand bed. I've got a 125gal tank with about 5-6in of fine (sugar sized) sand. I haven't vacuumed it for about three months because I've been attempting to 'automate' the process by employing a highly diverse and strong fleet of detritivores (spaghetti worms, amphipods, copepods, Mysid, cucumbers, micro stars, brittle/serpent). regardless of how great the system sounds on paper it just doesn't work well enough. so no am stuck with ultra fine sand that needs to be hydro-cleaned. 
<Or stirred perhaps... not shaken, call me Bond>
can you recommend or point me to a place where I could get a cleaner designed to get waste and not sand? I've heard that they exist, but are pretty expensive. id rather DIY the vac.
<This can be done... easy enough to build a large enough diameter gravel vacuum... that you can "fine tune" the flow with so you don't suck out the fine substrate...>
anyways am struggling with a dissolved organics issue and am left with few options.
<Why?>
am doing frequent, large water changes 50% every week
<This is too much>
and I vacuum out large patches of Cyanobacteria and other slimes/algae. so at least the organics locked in them are out of the system. 
<99.9 some percent water...>
also I harvest my Caulerpa tank regularly, sadly that's the only thing that is enjoying the sewage issue. oh, and the bio load exerted by my livestock is medium-low. god, I hate vacuuming tanks... it looks like my quest for a (mostly) carefree system got me into trouble.
thanks
Jon Trowbridge
<Time to investigate your options a bit more... do post your query, situation on our chatforum: http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/
Bob Fenner>

First Water Change
Bob,
<Steven Pro this evening.>
I have been reading your articles and find them extremely helpful.
I have a quick question you:
I have a new 40 gal. saltwater reef tank w/ 40 pounds of live rock (no fish yet). It has been cycling for a week and a half. I did a test on it and found that the cycle has completed, 0ppm nitrite, 0ppm ammonia, ph8.3, but my nitrate are up above 60ppm. Now for the question: I am ready (I think?) for the first water change and am petrified. I have setup a 5 gallon bucket (with city tap water), an air stone, added the salt, buffer and Prime (for the chlorine in the city water). Everything looks good. How long should I leave the change water set before pouring it into the tank? 24 hours? 48 hours?
<24 hours is plenty of time>
Also, when removing the water out of the tank, should I "dig" into the pebble coral on the bottom or should I just remove it from wherever?
<Yes, you do want to remove any detritus that has settled from your liverock into the gravel substrate.>
Any help would be great !! as I am biting my nails for this first step. Gregory Hustead
<Take it easy and enjoy you aquarium. -Steven Pro>

Maintenance Questions
Pretty new to the aquarium hobby, but have been at it about 8 months now. Was told to wait a while before I vacuum the substrate, so I have. Now, I realize that when I try to vacuum the base of the tank, all of my live sand goes into the hose/snake as well.
<Mmm, give it a preliminary stir with a wood or plastic dowel (to break up the chunks!) and devise or buy a siphon with an "exploded end" (we used to make our own out of plastic bottles with the bottom cut off and a good length of tubing attached to the narrow end...). Such "funnels" allow you to stir up the bottom, remove the muck, but leave the substrate behind>
Looking for a trick to avoid this from happening. Was also wondering how long I should wait before I change the white and blue pad in my canister filter. (the water is still crystal clear, I believe due to the protein skimmer)
<Do this on at least a weekly basis... good to remove the grunge there before it dissolves, returns nutrients to the water... fueling algae growth et. al.>
Love the web site.
Thanks,
Tim Gauen
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Maintenance Questions
Pretty new to the aquarium hobby, but have been at it about 8 months now. Was told to wait a while before I vacuum the substrate, so I have. Now, I realize that when I try to vacuum the base of the tank, all of my live sand goes into the hose/snake as well. Looking for a trick to avoid this from happening.
<If you have a DSB, you should not need to gravel siphon it. Occasionally some detritus might settle there, but you should not insert the siphon into the sand.>
Was also wondering how long I should wait before I change the white and blue pad in my canister filter. The water is still crystal clear, I believe due to the protein skimmer.
<Depends on the brand and model, but generally every 1-3 months.>
Love the web site. Thanks, Tim Gauen
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Water Changes
Hello again,
Thanks for the feedback on my previous question. I was reading about water changes on your site. Thanks for taking the time to organize all of this for us. I have a water softener at home, but I didn't come across many FAQ's concerning softeners.
<One word of caution concerning water softeners. I have read one report of someone using a brand of salt and not noticing that the salt included compounds that alleged to clean the water softener. These compounds, whatever they were, were toxic to fish.>
In an article, Bob states that tap water is just fine.
<For some applications>
Please give feedback to a possible way of preparing water for a water change. I have a 55g tank and currently doing 5-10% changes every week, depending on how much water I feel like carry over to the tank. Here's my thought:
What if I :
- filled a ten gallon bucket with straight tap water; water is "softened" but unfiltered
- I add no "de-chlorinizers", is that a word?
<They are called dechlorinaters and I would use them.>
- I put an air stone in overnight
- Next day, I add Kent Superbuffer. Is this the kind of buffer I need to add?
<It should be fine.>
Can I just add baking soda, and if so, how much per gallon is safe?
<Use test kits to confirm the pH and alkalinity.>
- I continue aerating for a few hours
- I then add Instant Ocean salt, mix, and wait a few hours before adding to tank
<More like 24 hours.>
Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
<See notes above.>
Up to now, I've just either been mixing salt with DI water immediately, then pouring it into tank without waiting;
<This can be dangerous.>
or I've been mixing salt and water immediately, then waiting overnight to add it. Neither of my current ways seems appropriate, based on the info on the site. Please help me be a better fish/reef keeper.
<My strong preference is to use DI water. Aerate and heat that water for 24 hours. Then add the salt mix and wait another 24 hours. At that point, test for pH and alkalinity and adjust as needed. In another 24 hours, it is ready for use.>
Thank you, Randy M. Yniguez, MA
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Mixed Up About Salt Mixing
Hi guys, couple questions about adding salt.
<Sure!>
I am using Tropic Marin and was wondering how much salt per gallon of water should be adding when making up new water?  I have been adding 1/2 cup and it seems to be to much.
< I am a Tropic Marin user, too. I use about 2 cups per 5 gallons, and that seems to yield a s.g. of 1.024-1.025 at about 79 degrees F.>
Last thing I have been mixing about 20 gallons at a time in a Rubbermaid trash can...RO/DI water.. let aerate and heat for a day then I add Seachem buffers.  I then add the salt.
<Great procedure!>
Question is......when I add the salt to can it is clear (water) but after 3 to 5 days the water is still very cloudy, I continue to aerate the whole time, but it doesn't seem to ever clear out.. then when I do use the water there is a thick white film on the sides of the can that I have to rub/scrub the clean off.  The water in the tank does clear up though.  What do you think?  Thanks a lot Bryan
<Good observation, Bryan. I notice this phenomenon at times, too. I think that it probably has something to do with some of the salt or buffer components not dissolving completely into the water, or perhaps, even falling out of solution.... As long as the water mixes up to the correct specific gravity, pH, and alkalinity, I would not be overly concerned. Keep up those water changes! Regards, Scott F>