Orange Zoanthids Closed Up    2/16/08
Hello Crew,
<Dave>
I have a small colony of bright orange zoanthids that I have had in my tank for about four weeks now. This week they have been entirely closed up and look to be shrinking in on themselves. I am trying to find out the cause. Previously they were open with nice large polyps and doing well. They are placed in the sand bed in an area in with high water flow. The other zoanthids in this area seem to grow the best here.
<This is "it">
I have fifteen other different color zoanthids and they are all doing extremely well. The rest of the reef tank is doing great as well.
I have read the zoanthid articles listed on your site, but none seem to help out. I was also thinking that it could possibly be allopathy,
<Allelopathy>
except all the other zoanthids are doing great. I would really like to recover these zoanthids since the orange ones seem to be rare and they cost me over $200 for just ten polyps. Would it be in my best interest to move them to another friend's reef tank?
<Yes>
There doesn't seem to be any foul play from snails or crabs, and I don't see why only this zoanthid colony would be singled out. I also didn't want to move them around since they are already stressed.
<Is just a "loser" under the conditions present... to the more vigorous Cnidarians present>
About my tank: My 125 gallon reef has been established for almost eight years now. I have 6 six foot VHO bulbs. three actinic and three aqua suns.
Two main pumps 1800 and 1200 gph. They are controlled via two SCWDs and four returns. The actinic lights come on an hour before and after the main lights.
Temp is between 76 - 78 degrees. I have a wet dry sump, but have ordered a 45 gallon ADHI refugium. For the time being I have a small basket of Chaeto algae in the main tank for nutrient control. 15 gallon water changes are done weekly. I am using an AquaFX RO/DI system for RO water.
Salinity level is at 1.025; PH 7.8; Nitrates and Nitrites are at 0.
Alkalinity is a little on the low side. I am starting to use a buffer to bring it up.
Let me know if there is anything I am overlooking.
Thanks in advance!
Dave
<You might be able to "classically condition" these Zoanthids to "getting along with each other better". Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
Bob Fenner>

Zoanthid Closure beh.    11/11/07
<Hi Peggy, Mich here.>
I have a question please.
<I have an answer thank you! Heehee!>
I have four different colonies of Zoanthids. They used to open up every day until about 2 1/2 weeks ago. They closed up and have remained closed up ever since. I have a 55 gallon established reef tank. I do four-gallon water changes weekly, but nothing has helped. I have two stony SPS corals, one torch, some mushrooms, xenia, one brain, a long tentacle mushroom, some star polyps and a large Elk Horn coral. I have been reading on your site that there can be warfare between these creatures.
<There is lots of potential for allelopathy in your system.>
Does this just all of a sudden happen?
<Depends...>
I have two power sweeps in my tank and one powerhead under the rock in the corner of my tank. I have an Aquasystem on my tank with a crappy skimmer. The skimmer has always been crappy, even before this problem.
<So you're saying it's consistently crappy... Heehee!>
I dose with Kalkwasser by IV drip method and I add strontium, reef builder, phytoplankton bi-weekly and iodine every other week. My tank parameters are as follows.
<Mmm, I'd be more inclined to rely on larger weekly water changes than all these supplementations.>
PH 8.1 low
SG 1.024
Temp 76
nitrite 0
nitrate 0
ammonia 0
dKH 15 (perhaps high)<target range is 7-10 dKH>
cal 400 (low)
Mag around 1240
What do you think is going on? Everyone else is doing great!! I hope you can shed some light on this problem. I have checked with a magnifying glass and see no bugs or abundant algae covering them. What's up?
<I have had a similar experience when the my water movement was unknowingly reduced. Perhaps one of you powerheads is not operating properly. I would check the water flow in your system. You could also try moving one of the cluster to an area of high water flow and see if this makes a difference.>>
Thanks Peggy
<Welcome! Mich>

Re: Toadstool Leather Coral... Now Zo's  beh.  10/30/07
I bought some yellow polyps the same day as well and they are fully open but they are green, are they getting used to the tank as well?
<<Kane: Depending on the lighting, Yellow Polyps can look Yellow or Yellow-Green. The fact that they are open is a good sign. Polyps can take several days to adjust as well. I find them to be very hardy and fast growers. Best of luck, Roy>>

Zoanthid Question... beh.  2/19/07
Hi Crew,
<Sammy>
I have a 10 gallon with some fish and mushrooms and 2 zoanthid colonies.
Since my tank is just 10 gallons I spend a lot of time studying what little is in there.
One colony has almost no skirt and the center is blue and yellow. It has not grown much since I got it. The second one has a red/orange skirt with an orange and yellow center. This one started with 12 polyps and now is over 35. I also cut off 3 polyps, placed them on a small rock and in 3 weeks there are now 7 polyps.
But what I find interesting about this one is that the size of the skirt grows. When I got it the skirt was very short and as time went on it go longer until it looked like long curly red hair. Then the polyps closed up for a couple of days. When it reopened the skirt was short again. And the cycle started over again. It has done this 3 times already. I never read about this and I am sure I do not have a unique species. I was just curious if anyone else had noticed this.
<Not unusual to see reactions like these, especially in small tanks where water parameters can change quickly. James (Salty Dog)>

Button polyps beh.  9/18/06
Hi there...
<Yo there>
I've got a quick question for you and I can't find an answer to on the site any where.  I purchased some button polyps a few weeks ago from the local shop and since then the tentacles on all these little dudes have grown in length by about 4 to 5 times what they should be.
<"Looking" for something... food? Other cnidarians?>
Their
<They're>
starting to out grow each other and I just doesn't seem very attractive.  my tank setup is 40 gallons with 2x96 watt 10K and one true actinic 96 watt light all less than 6 months old.  Any thoughts..... I can't find the answer.
thanks
Chad
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidbehfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Zoanthids close as soon as daylights come on  9/9/06
Hello. I have searched high and low and can't figure out why my zoanthids will fully open when the blue lights come on in the morning (I have the blues on for about an hour before the daylights come on).  Then as soon as the daylights come on, the zoanthids close up for about 4 hours before they open back up. This is only something they have been doing for the past month or so.  I do regular water changes every week, usually 15-20 gallons in my 75 gallon tank.  I don't know if I should be alarmed since they open nicely before the daylights come on?
Thanks in advance,
Kelly
<Their opening/closing behavior correlates with the availability of food organisms, predators in the wild... do become otherwise photo-behaviorally adapted in captivity in time. No worries. Bob Fenner>

Zoanthids are Closed.. Help!   9/5/06
Hi there!  I'll start with tank specs: 30 gal, temp 78, SG 1.025, Nitrate/Nitrite 0, Ammonia 0, Alk 300,
<? 300 what?>
pH 8.0, 192W lighting (dual daylight, dual actinic)
I read through most of the Zoanthid threads, with no answer to my impending questions.  My tank has been up and running since late March 06, and my zoanthids have been happy since I bought them in May.  However, around the middle of July I noticed that my zoas were starting to close up.
<Not compatible... in small volumes... even with their own Class>
  This may have had to do with a water change gone wrong, and I ended up having a much lower SG than I had planned.  I usually kept the SG at 1.022,
<Too low>
and it dropped during that water change to 1.019.  I slowly built the SG back up to 1.022, with no change.  The zoas remained closed.  I sought help from another forum, and they suggested I raise my SG to at least 1.025; so, over a week I slowly raised my SG to 1.025.  This increase was completed on Aug 7th.  The zoas have still not opened up.  They don't look sickly, nor discolored, and in fact, they are still making little zoas.  Now, why wont the zoas open up?
<Allelopathy likely>
  What can I do to help them?
<Larger system, chemical filtrant use, clean the skimmer, add a refugium, remove most of them...>
  I'm really disappointed that I can't seem to do anything to help the situation.  I did a 30% water change Aug 3rd, and after reading a few articles, decided to do a 50% water change today (Aug 28).  Still no dice.  Could you please help me with what's going on?  My last idea is to quarantine them in another tank, but regardless, I am at a loss as to what I should do at this point.
Thank you,
Stephanie
<Read, re-read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Death = Life?? Zoanthids mostly   7/7/06
Hi Crew--
<Chris>
There is a very interesting tank development that i need to run by you.  I bought a zoanthum (sp?) colony
<Likely a Zoanthid>
about 4 weeks ago.  Most of the spores
<... polyps>
died off the rock, except for the most mature (big) spores, and even those refused to bloom.  I tried moving them lower, then higher and still
nothing.  They'd been untouched for about two weeks.  Well, unfortunately my sleeper goby bit the dust the other day and all my hermit crabs and
chocolate chip starfish took care of the carcass. I didn't perform a water change yet, and the zoo's all of a sudden have started blooming.
I'm not sure about this, but is it possible that when the goby started decomposing a lot of nutrients were released into the water, and perhaps the
reason my tank has not been doing all that great is that the water is *too* clean?
<Mmm, possibly... but much more likely this colony just "became acclimated"...>
Anyway, looking forward to your thoughts on this.  A follow-up question is how can I maintain this water "quality" so that my tank thrives?
<... Posted... marine filtration, maintenance... on WWM>
As always, thank you.
Regards,
Chris Stormes
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm
scroll down to the section on Zoanthids... Bob Fenner>

Question on Zoanthus Sociatus not opening   3/15/06
I have a new Zoanthus sociatus (metallic green variety) colony that has been in my tank for 3 days now, and doesn't seem to want to fully open.
<Three days is not very long here>
the polyps are mostly open but it is not fully extended. right now the colony is on top of my rock, about 4inches from the surface, and located between the water streams - a steady but not real strong flow over it
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i1/blane-zoanthids/zoanthids.htm
and the files linked below>
     I have a 29g reef, Prizm skimmer and Marineland 200 bio-wheel filter, 105w fluorescent (1x65 CP and 2x20w fluorescent). I don't test my water  :-(  but I do have a anemone, Haitian pink-tip
<... incompatible>
I believe, and he has been doing just fine for a few months so I "assume" the water quality is fine.
   Question is, at what point should I be concerned about the colony not opening fully, as I know there can be some acclimation, and what water flow and light intensity is best for this colony???
     Patrick
<Do read where you've been directed. Zoanthids in such small systems are problematical... particularly where mis-matched with other Cnidarian life. Bob Fenner>

Beh. zoanthids 02-05-06
Hi Crew,
<Hello>
Recently I noticed that all of my zoanthids have started to close up (approx 2000 polyps).  I searched your website and found that sponges may contribute.
I removed all of the red ball sponges, phosphate binding media, and carbon. The chemical media I recently added.  I still have some chicken liver sponge.
I raised my lighting.  The water parameters are fine, except nitrate is between 10-20 ppm, but they should do fine in nutrient rich water. I did
however raise the pH from 8.1 to 8.3.  I added a dry base rock which raised the alk to 4.4 meq.  The iodine level (Salifert kit) unreadable due to excess
iodate. Does anyone have any ideas? <High levels of iodine/iodate has been noted to cause polyps to close up.  Do a fairly large water change to level your parameters back out. The water change will also lower your nitrates. Try that for now. As a side note... In the future make sure to make changes slowly. That will allow your tank to adjust and make it easier for you to target causative agents when your tank has issues. Travis>
thanks

Unhappy Palythoa - 12/25/2005
I recently received an 8" beautiful orangish-peach palythoa group. While I was unloading the minivan, my wife just dumps it unceremoniously into the tank.
<Yikes!>
Well, the polyps close up and haven't opened since (3 days now).
<Again, yikes!>
They half-way open at night, but then close again when the lights start up. The water he came in has a pH of 7.7,
<Yargh!>
while mine is 8.0...
<Still too low.>
more on this later... and the temps were identical. He was only in transit for about 45 min.
<These animals needed to be drip acclimated for a few to several hours....  pH shock like this is deadly.  Uhh, and WHY on EARTH were they in a pH of 7.7?  That's WAY too low.>
He came from being at the bottom of a 29gal directly under a 150w 10000K HQI and 2x55w CFL actinics. I have 2x65w CFL super actinics (420x430) (12hrs/day) and a 250w 10000K MH (6 hrs/day). I currently have him located about 12-15" from the MH and I'm thinking he may be a bit too close, as he's more closed up once the MH comes on. However, he isn't any happier when it's just the actinics....am I right to worry?
<Yes, possibly.  You could consider "screening" some of the light out a bit, or raising your lights for a while....  but these animals' real problem right now is just adjusting to your water parameters.  The best thing to do may simply be to wait.>
As for the pH, is there anything that works better than Kent SuperBuffer for raising and maintaining the pH?
<Probably best to start reading here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm , and the FAQs files linked at the top.>
I have been using the recommended amount daily for about 3 weeks and my pH hasn't changed one lick. I know this pH is pretty low, especially for my anthelia and xenia. My source water is pH 7.6 but extremely soft at .5dGH and 5dKH. Any suggestions?
<Start reading....  there is MUCH more archived than I could begin to tell you.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Hello first time question asker, very long time reader... Zoanthid negative reaction  12/22/2005
Dear Bob,
<Scott>
I can't believe that I am actually writing to you! I have been reading your
stuff for over two years. Voyeur if you will.  Finally time to ask you a
real question.
<Pleased to meet you Scotter>
Having read some many of your responses, I have a pretty good idea of how
you think ( in a sort of cumulative way). So please understand that I have
broken some rules and followed most.
<Of course>
Space limitations have made it necessary for me to only have a 29 Gal with a
20 gal sump.  Ironic, since money is not an issue.  What this has done, has
made me focus on optimization and quality.
<Good adverbs>
It turns out that this has had
its benefits. As a result, I have been artificially forced to get away from
the "great big tank" syndrome. This may have been a kind of strange
blessing.
My tank is about 2.5 years old (ancient history - I had a 150 gal marine
tank for five years in the early 80s back when the idea of keeping live
coral was impossible and the latest technology was putting powerheads on UG
filter lift tubes).
Water parameters all optimal.  System has two urchin skimmers, wet / dry
trickle ( home made with a few bioballs and more chunk coral), two power
heads with foam filters, chiller / UV with 150 gph mag pump, and last but
not least, two of the hang on the back (can't remember the manuf.) larger box
filters. Collectively, I have over killed the water movement and filtration.
Lighting is 3 55/65 w power compacts.  Finally, I regularly change carbon
(two weeks) and use poly filters religiously (two weeks).
<There are moments when I wish I owned Poly-Bio-Marine...>
One of your best ideas, that I have incorporated into the system was to take
the side of my 20L sump directly below the trickle and build a "one third of
the way up" glass divider wall to create a 12" X 14" deep sand bed ( about
4" deep).  When I did this, substantial drop in nitrates.  I give you full
credit for this.
<Thanks. I give you at least partial credit for "doing it">
Finally, lots of live rock (can't tell you how much). Long and short,
extremely stable system.  I have raised and sold back to by LFS from this
system a number of specimens ( I take a lot of pride in being able to bring
things in, grow them up and pass them along)
<An admirable action>
So much for setting the stage.  And finally to my question (whew! Bet you
thought I would never get there). For many months, I have had a colony of
Protopalythoa sp or thereabouts. These were thriving, growing, expanding
looking really healthy for a long time. However, big change recently.  We
went from growing thriving, to barely making it ( looking closed up etc).
Only two variables in the equation - 1. Introduction of a small colony of
Goniopora on the other side of the tank (I know, I know but it was cheap,
lime green, and really pretty),
<This would do it...>
and 2. I bought a small Imperator angel, who
was very young ( maybe 1.5 inches at the time), who has since grown. Before
you say it, the angel will either go back to the LFS or into a bigger tank
next year.
<Good>
What's killing the coral - the angel or the Goniopora?
<If of these two, the Poritid>
I fully understand
that it might be either, have seen the angel nipping, but not a lot.  Your
take???
<Is the Flower Pot>
PS: also have frilly mushroom, large finger leather, mother and three kids
BTAs and yellow polyps. No other known "coral eaters" in the system.
<If you are keen to grow the other cnidarians... you already had/have... I would not attempt to add others here. Though you use chemical filtration, are likely rigorous in other maintenance, this allelopathy will be problematical. Bob Fenner>

My zoanthids are turning white - 10/19/2005
HI,
<Hello Paul>
I'm a newbie to reef keeping.  I've had a fish only marine tank before but now I've decided to move onto reef tanks.  Currently my tank is 4 month old and I have four fishes and various zoanthids and mushrooms.  Following is my tank parameters: pH=8.3, ammonia=0, nitrite=0, nitrate=0, alkalinity=3.5meq, calcium=340
question I have is related to my Zoa.  I've had them for about a few months now and recently noticed that the oral disk on the Zoa are turning white.<A sure sign of stress.>  I've read that this is due to too much light <not necessarily> but I only have about 3.7 watts per gallon and I have all my zo's on the lower half of the tank.  Tank is 75 gallon.  Please help.  Thanks.
<Paul, please capitalize proper nouns and beginnings of sentences in the future.  That said, back to business.  The oral disks are turning white because they are expelling their zooxanthellae.  Too much light can cause this but is not the only factor.  There is not enough info on your tank to be certain what is causing this.  What is your temp.?  Salinity?  Are the mushrooms touching them?  Try moving your zoanthids further up in the tank (maybe midway though mine prefer the top).  The only absolute here is that they are not happy with their present environment. - Josh>
Paul  

Worms - 07/19/05
Sorry to bother you.
<<No bother>>
I usually find what I'm looking for on your site, but
I'm not entirely certain this time.
<<ok>>
I have a 45 gallon reef tank (teeming with live rock, mushrooms, polyps, frogspawn, feather dusters, 7 shrimp (1 pistol hitchhiker), porcelain crabs, snails and 6 fish (yellow tang, pink
Pseudochromis, blue damsel, false percula, brown barred goby, jeweled rock skipper).  Yes, I know, probably over-populated.
<<Yes...please consider finding another home for the tang...>>>>
The wet-dry is for a 75 gal. tank, the protein skimmer is good and there are several powerheads in the tank for circulation.  I clean the tank and protein skimmer, change the filter pad and perform a 13 gallon water change weekly and the water quality is fine.  
<<Very good!  I love to see people doing "weekly" maintenance.>>
Everything in the tank is thriving and I'm not over-feeding.  However, the last time I added a button polyp, within a few
days what appeared to be intestines (white, curly, gross) appeared in several spots, on the polyp itself and on the wall of the tank.
<<Possibly mesenterial filaments (digestive organs) from a defense response as a result of stress.>>
Within a day or so, they disappeared.
<<Yep>>
Then I noticed tiny little clear shrimp-y looking things on the filter pad when I change it, and several long, thin, white worm-y
looking things in the bottom of the wet-dry.  I haven't seen any of these things in the tank itself, however, but it seems that there are more of them each week in the filter.
<<Probably amphipods and bristle worms, beneficial detritus feeders...  Though you haven't seen them they are in your tank (came from/live in and around your live rock, and as you are discovering, will also accumulate in your filters.>>
I'm wondering if I should be concerned or not..
<<Don't worry...be happy... (do I hear music?)>>  
I'm also curious as to where they came from - are they hitchhikers?
<<Yes...hitchhikers from the live rock.>>
Thanks.
Emily
<<Regards, Eric R.>>

Zoanthid Q
Hi Crew,
<How goes it?>
You have a fantastic site here, I've learned a lot just reading the different posts.  First let me give you my equipment setup.  I have a 29g tank with the following:
CPR Bak-Pak2 skimmer
Bio-wheel 125 filter
2-Rio 600 powerheads
1-Powersweep powerhead
220 watts power compact lighting(110w 10,000k/110w
bright blue actinic)
45lbs live rock
1 1/2" to 2" of crushed coral
and I do 15% water change every 2 weeks
Live stock includes
12 Astrea snails
6 Bumblebee snails
12 hermit crabs
<Looks like your message was truncated, but judging by the subject you were wondering why your zoanthids weren't opening. If you've just introduced them, give them up to a week to acclimate. If not, be sure to check all of your water parameters. Zoanthids are tough and don't stop opening for no reason! M. Maddox> 

Unhappy Zoanthids 1/28/05
Hi Crew, Recently my zoanthid polyps have been unhappy and I'm not sure why. I have a few guesses but I'd like your input. I recently purchased a refractometer for my young reef. (1yr). I calibrated and measured and got a reading of 1.027. Id like it at 1.025 so during my last 2 weekly 10% water changes I added water at 1.025. and slow dripped some fresh RODI to bring it to 1.025 over 2 weeks.
<Good conservative technique.  No problems here.>
I have used oceanic salt for the last 6 months with no problems but I have heard and read negative things and have had no problems so far.  The other possibility is my Galaxea which is a good 14-15" away from the nearest polyps has been real aggressive lately.  It's sweepers at times very excited and extended. could it be affecting the polyps? I also have star polyps, a hammer coral, and got a cap Montipora 2 months ago which has doubled in size. Only the zos are affected. Ph is 8.1 and has been forever, calcium is a little high at 450. alk is 3.1 kH is 8.5 which is a little lower than usual but acceptable. Phos was undetectable. what do you think??
<Aggression from your other corals is certainly a possibility.  The low alkalinity (a common problem with Oceanic salt) may also be contributing.  You did not describe how much current you have in your tank, and water movement is very important.  Do also be sure to rule out picking by any fish.  Good luck!  AdamC.>

Inside-Out Polyp 12/16/04
Hi, I hope you can help me understand why my polyp is doing this.
Tank Parameter: 30 gallon Breeder
pH   8.0
KH  12-13dH
Calcium 460ppm
Nitrate  20 ppm
Nitrite  0 ppm
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Lighting: PC 96W : NO 80W = 5.8W/G
That will increase once we get the additional PC (192W).
SeaClone Protein Skimmer (I know this is not the best but it works for me) <Don't fix it if it ain't broke!  Sounds like plenty of light for most animals.>
Getting to the polyp, I got this polyp when I got the live rock to I don't know that type it is. But I believe it is some type of button polyp. Yet all the button polyp that I have seen have been smaller than this one. When it was open it is about the size of a nickel. But for the past week it has been closed up inside out. The one on the top right has stay like that all day and all night. The one on the left bottom that looks like a doughnut does come out of it once but has started to stay that way longer.
<Some "Button Polyps" are quite large (up to about 2" across).  They will open and close for a variety of reasons, but usually some kind of irritation (over-illumination, picking by crabs, shrimp or fish, etc.).  I would try and rule out some kind of physical irritation.>
If you need additional information, please feel free to ask. Kit
<If you can't figure out what it might be, do consider sending a list of tankmates.  I am also concerned about the fact that you have detectible ammonia.  Please verify this on a different test kit.  If the repeat test confirms the presence of ammonia, you have a biological filtration problem.  Best Regards.  AdamC.>

What is this string stuff on my polyps?
I got home this evening, and when I looked at my tank I noticed that many of my Zoanthid polyps had reddish brown string coming from the center of each polyp. << Probably releasing a slime coat. >> These are fairly new colonies.  The first few days in quarantine, I noticed several Nudibranchs on them, which I picked off with tweezers.  After several more days, they were all open and looking great.  Now a week later I noticed these string looking things, and some look as though they have been eaten to a nub. << Well usually they release slime coats to remove detritus on them, or expel waste, or who knows what else.  But it is common, and probably not a problem. >>  Any ideas on the problem, and what I might do to get rid of it/them.  These are good size colonies with 40-50 polyps. << I would increase water flow near them.  This can help bring them more food, remove waste, and prevent sedimentation.  Other than that, it sounds quite normal so I wouldn't worry. >>
Thanks
<<  Blundell  >>