Arothron hispidus in brackish water system? (03/19/03)
<Ananda here today...that's the white-spotted puffer, in case y'all were wondering.>
Thank you very much for this wonderful site.  I've learned a great deal over just the last few days.  
<You're quite welcome...I keep learning stuff, too, as we keep adding to the site.>
I have looked for an answer to the following question but found none here.
<Me neither. But then, we can't cover everything right away... :-) >
In the Brackish Water Aquarium FAQ at http://users.macunlimited.net/n.monks/brackfaq.html (section (7a)) Arothron hispidus is mentioned as a puffer that adapts well to brackish aquaria.  
<I'd forgotten that part. Required reading, btw, for anyone interested in brackish systems.>
However, most of my research tells me they require full marine conditions.  What do you think?
<When in doubt, search Fishbase: http://www.fishbase.org >
How about other Arothron species, e.g. the commonly available A. meleagris and A. nigropunctatus?
<Nope, neither of those two. But some of the Arothrons wander into estuaries... A. immaculatus, A. manilensis, A. reticularis, and the giant A. stellatus (that guy gets as long as a 55 gallon tank!). Of those, A. hispidus and A. reticularis sound like the most likely candidates for a high-brackish/near-marine system.>
Thanks for any advice.  Until I learn more, I will not subject any Arothrons to less than fully marine water.
<Sounds like a plan to me. Keep us posted on the WWM forums.>
Sincerely,
Nick
Tempe, AZ

Figure of 8 puffer/green spotted puffer
Please can you help me?
<I will try my best!>
I have 1 figure of 8 puffer and 1 spotted green puffer in s 250 litre approx. community tank with a mixture of both large and small fish including my 4 Discus which obviously means that the water is soft. They were previously together is their own tank but I thought it would be a good idea to put them in my larger tank.  The Aquatic place that I got them from said that it would be OK but I'm not so sure that it suits my dear little spotted Puffer.  He doesn't appear to be very well.  He's not eating anything anymore and one of his side fins has stopped moving or is not there at all, he is just floating around and bumping into everything.  They are both very placid fish and I don't want to lose this little guy.  Can you help?  
<Were they happy and healthy in their old tank? I would move them back...pronto!>
Is he in the right conditions or should I move them into their own tank again?  
<Well, as sensitive as the discus are you certainly can't change their water conditions...right? If the puffers aren't going to adjust, and it sounds as if they aren't, then move them back and put something else in with the discus>
What should I do to save him?
<That is what I would do. David Dowless>
Regards, Dena Richardson

Palembang puffer <Now synonymized as T. biocellatus>
Hi Crew,
I've a question.. (but don't we all) I just got a Palembang puffer, and the tank I got him from had probably 2 dozen of them all swimming happily... but I put this little chappy in a tank on his own, and he seems rather distressed, swimming up against the glass, even trying to jump.. and he looks like he's trying to escape.. is this just due to him being in a new environment? or is there something wrong with the water? I checked the ph and it seems ok... the only other fish is a tiny Pleco.  Thanks for your help
<Hey Marcus, it is very possible that this is just a reaction from the stress of being moved into a new environment.  I would also test my water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, just to be sure.  Best Regards, Gage.>
Marcus Tan

Live foods for figure-8 puffer
How do you feel about feeding a figure-8 puffer live earthworms,
crayfish, bugs, frogs or other things from outside?  Is there really more risk then with live foods from the aquarium store?  
<This is a brackish water species which requires marine type foods, not terrestrial foods like frogs, worms, etc. These fish are not generalists, they eat specific foods.>
Also, is it possible to find live mosquito larvae outside?
<In the summer months, but not for feeding puffers. Please read the information you need at WetWebMedia.com, just type "figure eight puffer" in the google search!  Craig>

Setting up a brackish tank for a figure-8 puffer
I have bought a 45 gallon tank for my figure-8 puffer.  I am trying to set it up before moving him in.  I have heard that sand bottom and plants would make this kind of fish happy.  What kind of sand should I use?
<Please see the WWM Brackish subweb. Index here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/BrackishSubWebIndex.htm>
What kind of plants should I use considering the brackish conditions (I don't think I can
grow mangroves because my tank has a lid)?
<Correct... unless the tank is very tall>
I bought java fern, wisteria and hornwort.  The hornwort is not doing well probably because it hasn't had enough light,  but I'm concerned that if I add too much light, the java fern
won't do well.
<Plant the former above the latter>
Should I just get rid of the hornwort?  I am reluctant to do this because I read that this plant prevents algae.   Paul
<Bob Fenner>

Green Spotted Puffer
Hi Gang,
My Green Spotted Puffer has developed what looks like a whitehead on it's nose - Any ideas as to what this could be? Jason 
<Hi Jason, This is likely Lymphocystis, a viral disease related to environmental/water quality.  Please test your water for wastes and make any changes necessary to improve your water.  Likely nitrates...  We get more mail on puffers than about any fish....many misconceptions and problems with water conditions.
Please go to: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwpuffers.htm  and read about the conditions your puffer requires. There is much more on Lymphocystis on WetWebMedia.com...scroll to the bottom of the page and type Lymphocystis in the google search engine.  No worries, this is curable, Craig>

Re: Green Spotted Puffer Problems
Please explain to me again why the fish we have are not compatible with each other.
<Please see the previous four emails. There is not much else I can add.>
The catfish is a pictus by the way. They all get along fine
<For now>
and are very healthy especially since the very unfortunate passing of our pufferfish. Their water quality has been perfect, at a pH of 7, neutral.
<There are many other aspects of water quality beyond pH; presence of ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, dissolved organics, hardness, oxygen, etc.>
I understand that the loaches prefer acidic water and others alkaline but I have been told by other sites that as long as there is a neutral pH that pretty much all fish will adapt to and be healthy.
<Fish can adapt to this middle ground, but it is not the best situation for them. It is a compromise where all live but none thrive.>
I have owned pictus cats before and they have never shown aggression as someone mentioned previously.
<They are capable of eating small fish.>
Even in a 55 gallon tank. So except for the size of tank, why are they not compatible? Sorry to be confused.
<If you are truly confused, I am sorry. We have given you the best advice we can. There is nothing more to be added at this point, but I get the distinct impression that you are not confused, you merely do not like our answers. You mention searching other websites and finding information that supports what you want to do. There is nothing else to say now. You have the information. Make your own decision. -Steven Pro>

Re: Green Spotted Puffer Problems
If it was because I did not like your answers I would not even bother asking. I find that quite a rude response to someone trying to get information from all available avenues.
<I have no problem with people searching out all available means of education and them making an informed decision about their situation. I find it rude and a waste of our time for someone to come back with the same question five times for the same answer.>
Who is to say that all of your information is the end all be all anyway.
<I never said it was. I can tell you factually how large each of those fish reaches as an adult and that a 20 gallon tank will assuredly stunt their growth and kill them.>
You site should be dedicated to helping people pursue this hobby
<Our website and the Q&A is available to help others help themselves.>
and not try to make them feel inferior because you think you have more knowledge.
<I never meant to make you feel inferior. I was just tired of repeating myself.>
I represent the majority of people out there. I can assure you that most novice fish owners do exactly what the pet stores say.
<Absolutely correct, but in the face of conflicting information based on the actual, undeniable adult size of your animals, you continue to doubt our collective advise to this day.>
I being more than a novice pet owner know there is a middle ground between you and the pet stores. Both on opposite extremes.
<I would not say that. I think many times we agree with good stores. Not all stores are bad. There are many excellent fish stores with highly trained and knowledgeable staff.>
For example you say that our clown loaches need a 125 gallon tank to be "happy".
<Perhaps I should have stated it differently. It will need a tank that size to turn around.>
Well, I am sorry but if you are truly a fish advocate you would know that for them to be truly "happy" you would not take them out of the wild in the first place since the are all wild caught.
<I am not a fish advocate. I am an industry professional, advocate, and mentor.>
Again there has to be a happy medium. Anyway Steven, since you have chosen to be disrespectful I would appreciate you forwarding any future emails to your co-workers.
<Do not worry, I will avoid you like the plague.>
I do value some of the information I have been given but your attitude is totally unprofessional.
<I found you repeatedly returning saying (to paraphrase) "So and so said I could do it. What do you think now?" disrespectful and a tremendous waste of our time. Sincerely, Steven Pro>

Green Spotted Puffer Problem
Good morning guys!
One of my green spotted puffers is having a problem, and I'm not sure if it's constipation or something worse. He is producing VERY large feces, and seems to be a bit sluggish. When I fed flakes yesterday, the other spotted puffer and the large Cory that shares the tank both fed, but the affected fish just mouthed the flakes and spit them back. Later in the day, I fed a ration of frozen bloodworms - which all three fish completely devoured.
<Puffers should not be fed flakes, they should eat pellets and hard shelled crustacea to wear their teeth down. ghost shrimp, tiny crayfish, krill, etc>
What really has me concerned about this particular puffer, though, is the presence of small red dots on his left flank, somewhat near the anus. I don't know if he has bled internally, or if these are just marks from lying on the slab of shale that he enjoys resting upon. I am really concerned, though - I love these little guys, and hate seeing one of them in less than optimum health. Any thoughts?
<Sounds like a bacterial infection. Improved diet and possibly quarantine with medication. Medicated pelleted food is available from Tetra. Best Regards, Gage>
Thanks, Chris

Figure eight puffer
Hello,
<Cheerio, old sport! Anthony Calfo in your service>
I have owned a freshwater fish tank of some form for many years. Whether it was 50 gallon, 20, or 10 (I have a 10 right now because of the convenience), I have never really paid attention to pH, ammonia, etc. 
<like an ice pick in my ears...hehe>
I use a water X and add a teaspoon of salt for every 10 gallons.
<I like that part <wink>>
Right now I have a 10 gallon tank that follows me pretty much everywhere. 
<most people have cats and puppies for this but hey... enjoy>
Today I bought a figure eight puffer, I have always wanted a puffer and finally I decided to get one, but not before asking the dealer a bunch of questions. He said that although he may get territorial, he is a good community fish. 
<you dealer is a fibber <G>>
He said the fish will eat flake food, which is what I normally feed my fish, but I often give brine shrimp. 
<Puffers are cute, lovable and dedicated fin nippers. They also will suffer on a diet of flake and brine shrimp. As crustacean eaters, they need hard shelled foods to wear down their naturally growing teeth. Without it the teeth will become overgrown to the point where the animal cannot feed. As such flake food is too soft and brine-shrimp without enrichment (Selcon soaked and the like) is a useless fare that is essentially water made to look like shrimp. Too bad it is so well liked by fish... it is the lowest grade food. Add frozen Mysid, krill and plankton to the diet (freeze dried krill too). Some folks keep fast breeding live snails (the puffers love them!!!) to help with the teeth too>
He said my salinity would be fine. 
<probably although they could take and might enjoy a lot more salt to truly be brackish>
Once I bought the fish and released him into the tank, everything at the moment appears to be fine. I haven't fed yet, so I don't know how that will go. I started looking things up on the net here and one guy has me really afraid. He seems to know what he is talking about, but he says that having all these conditions right is vital and puffers are very sensitive. Can you help me out a little here? 
<some truth to it... they are scale less fish and as such are sensitive to water quality and medications>
Also, since I have released my figure eight puffer into the tank, he has swam up and down the side wall non-stop. It appears normal, but I saw a comment somewhere saying this was a bad thing, is this true? 
<common but not normal or healthy in the long run. A stress induced response to many factors (salinity, light, water quality, etc)>
Please help me out, thanks. Dave
<no problem my friend... much has been written on this topic. Do a search on this site (tag the bullet for WWM only under the keyword field at the bottom of the home page) and look through the archives of FAQs. Much information there. Also, look through the brackish articles by following the links from the WWM homepage as well. I suspect that you will be enlightened and able to enjoy your puffer very soon. Best regards, Anthony>

Puffer injury/illness
Hi Bob, Sorry to keep bugging you, 
<no worries.... but it is still me, Anthony Calfo, here at your service. Bob is/has been away in the Caribbean. Also, please not our new addy is/will be changed to crew@wetwebmedia.com for inquiries if you'd like to note it in your address book>
but thought I would let you know what's happening with my puffer. I had him in the 40 gallon and treated him with Maracyn two for 5 days. 
<Maracyn is a brand name Erythromycin... which is a gram positive medication. As such, it is almost completely useless for most all marine fish (and FW too) illnesses. It is not only an outdated med, but most bacterial infections are gram-positive in nature. Always buy/use broad-spectrum antibiotics to play the odds in your favor. Furthermore, in the case of this fish, as I mentioned before, this is not a pathogenic disease. It is almost certainly a physical imposition (injury or defect). It needs to be treated differently.>
He never showed any symptoms during that time. He was very active and had a great appetite. I returned him to the 7' tank and he was fine for two days. He is now showing those same symptoms...clamped mouth, pinched belly, lethargic, but nothing has come out of his mouth yet. ?? Is there anyone else that you know that could help me with this? Kelly still hasn't replied. I just don't know what to do anymore. Thank you so much. Lynn
<my strong advice at this point would be to find a local or regional vet that will look at some better pictures of the fish for a prelim opinion (don't move the fish unless you have to). I regret that we cannot help more, but through e-mail, we cannot fairly assist you on a text description and vague photo (no worries here.... I do understand the challenge of getting a good clear photo). Best regards, Anthony>

Puffer Problems
Hi Bob,
As always, thanks for the great site. Here's a good one for ya...
I see Puffers develop a graying area in the skin, which eventually spreads. We call it "Puffer Cancer", for lack of better terms. Once it starts, there is no repair, and the fish eventually dies. Any idea what we are dealing with here?
<I have seen it in other stores and always thought it was because of use of meds.>
We love our Puffs, and any input you have would be most appreciated!
I only see this malady in Tetraodons, not Tobies. Is it a reaction to copper?
<Could be or a reaction to formalin, malachite green, Methylene blue, either in your store tanks or your wholesalers. -Steven Pro>
I await your response.

Puffer Problems Follow-up
Do you have any suggestions to prevent this occurrence?
<Only, not to use any meds that scaleless fish are sensitive to, but not much you can do about your wholesalers treatments. -Steven Pro>

More Puffer problems
Yes, we have a green spotted puffer who has been very healthy until a few days ago.  He has stopped eating (blood worms, plankton etc), hides a great deal, is losing weight and now appears to have a slight bulge on the right side of his mouth.  I have checked into the diseases that I could find online and nothing matches this description.  There is nothing protruding to indicate internal parasites.  What could this be and what can we do about it.  Thanks, Lori. P.S. His teeth are not overgrown at this point either.
<Hi Lori, You don't mention any facts about your tank, water, etc. so I can only give you a very general answer. The best place to start is matching the conditions required by your fish.
Check this link for the information you need. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwpuffers.htm
Any variations from the conditions provided for your puffer should be corrected. Read down to the bottom of the page to cover disease and parasites. These guys are subject to several of these, but treatable. The FAQ's and links at the top of the page will provide you with a bunch of needed info.  Good luck!  Craig>  

Re: More Puffer problems
Hi again, well we lost our puffer last night.  My six year old was very upset.  We have had him about 5 months.  
<very sorry to hear it. Have you read through our archives (Craig mentioned in last e-mail) for the species survey(s) and all the many FAQ pages? This is one of the most commonly mishandled fish and we get a lot of mail about puffers. Common problem include incorrect or inconsistent salinity (have you been using a hydrometer with your salt additions?), feeding small hard shelled crabs and shrimp (live ghost shrimp, tiny crayfish, hermit crabs and their shells) to wear their teeth down. Else they get overgrown in months and the fish can suffer/die from it, etc. There are many issues to know with puffers. If you haven't had a chance yet, please do navigate the archives from the homepage for more information>>
Anyway, I am guessing that our water quality has never been consistent and that is what finally took his life.  
<yes, my friend... a common problem. The lack of a consistent salinity is very stressful. We simply must use a hydrometer to coordinate salt levels and top off for evaporation daily to prevent swings. Hydrometers are inexpensive ($5-15) and easy to use>
In a last resort to keep this aquarium for my kids let me give you the rundown.  We have a 20h with a spotted cat, 2 clown loaches, a blood parrot fish and a Gourami.  
<a huge problem here... the loaches need soft acidic water, the others are somewhat similar and the puffer needs hard, alkaline and salted water (full brackish). It is inevitable that one or the other groups of fishes would die. Its like mixing polar penguins and Amazon parrots in the same cage because they are both birds... one is going to die under the standardized husbandry (if not both)>
They all get along great even when the puffer was with them.
<not exactly, my friend... it was only ever going to last short term. As the puffer matured it would have become increasingly aggressive and literally picked the eyes out of the other fishes. The clown loaches mature at more than 12" long and will outgrow their tank mates, possibly eat them or simply stunt and die prematurely if kept in a small aquarium. If the spotted cat is a Pimelodella (pictus), it is a fish predator and can eat live goldfish at about 2 years old. Sorry, bub... but somebody had to mention it if the LFS didn't>
Anyway, we have a whisper box filter, underground filter with powerhead, do not overfeed and change the water partially at least once a week
<all excellent!>
and I can never keep the ammonia down in our tank for more than a day.  Each of our fish is no more than two inches long!!!!
<very simple then... 1) you really might be overfeeding (which I doubt and take your word for) or 2) (my guess) Your under gravel filter has large pebbles (lousy for filtration) and/or less than 3" of gravel (too shallow for adequate bio-filtration)>
In the last couple of weeks, I took out the UG filter because not only was the ammonia high but the nitrite as well.  
<Doh! A properly installed UG can be an excellent filter. I would return it>
Now, my ph is perfect at neutral, nitrites are zero but the ammonia is still too high.  
<you need a primary bio-filter, buddette. If not the UG, then a canister filter or like unit. Again... return the UG or shell out $100 for a canister filter>
Also, I cannot seem to get rid of green algae in our tank.  I know that the puffers diet was a bit messy but we were careful to feed only what he would eat.  In fact, all of our fish enjoyed "his diet" of blood worms, plankton etc.  The only thing I can figure is that the size of our tank is the issue.  
<agreed... the smaller vessel is a lot more difficult/less stable>
When I was a kid we had a 55 gal tank and hardly ever had to do water changes.  We changed the filter once of week and at best once a month did water changes.  
<agreed>
Once a year we tore down the tank.  
<not necessary...ever with a properly maintained tank. Too stressful (for you and the fishes <wink>)>
What am I doing wrong that is making this tank such a chore and heartbreaking to my family?  
<water quality as you suspected my friend>
Please help.  Thanks, Lori.
<best regards, Anthony>

Puffer fish behavior
Hi, my name is Caroline, and I just bought a green spotted puffer fish, and I have been searching the web trying to find information on their antics, to see what is normal and not. My fish bobs up and down along the corner of his tank, and I think it is a little odd. It would be greatly appreciated if you could tell me if this is normal or not. I just got him yesterday, so it might be adjustment, I would just like to make sure. Thanks in advance for your reply, Caroline
<Yes, Caroline, these small puffers do go up and down the sides of their aquariums... perhaps in response to their own reflection... and will "sit on the bottom" as well... all normal/natural behavior. You might find more on these fishes by using the "Google Search Tool" on the bottom of the homepage, here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/
Insert the word freshwater (or) brackish puffer. Bob Fenner>

Puffer
<<Hi James>>
I have 2 figure 8 puffers in a 10 gallon tank. One of them has developed two bumps on his body: on the side and the other on the top of his body. The water tests well for nitrite, Ammonia, and pH. Both fish eat well and move normally. The other figure 8 hasn't shown the same bumps. Do you know what these bumps might be? Other than the bumps, the fish seems fine. Thanx. -James Kim
<<Likely Lymphocystis, Look at pix here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/viraldislymph.htm>
and these: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufferfaqs.htm, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpuffers.htm,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufffaqs2.htm,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm>
I would advise more room and good filtration. These links should help, Craig>>

Puffer Problem
I think I may of messed up when selecting my fish. I have a 46 gallon bowed tank with 40 pounds of live rock etc. My ammonia is 0, nitrate is .2, ph is 8.2, and salinity is 1.021 with temperature a stable 79. I have had in the tank for about a month, a dwarf lionfish, and 2 green spotted puffers. Now I realize that the salinity may be a bit high, but I don't want it too low because of the lionfish, is this correct? The lionfish seems fine (he's just lazy), and the puffers seem to be getting a little lazier as time goes by. I have noticed that the puffers stomachs can turn brown almost daily now, but can clear up at any given time. I do feel the puffers have been overeating. I feed them a variety of food twice a day, and every second day, they feast on ghost shrimp, because I put enough in the tank to ensure the lionfish gets enough. (I can't trick him into non-living foods as of yet). So I guess I have many many problems, and my LFS gives me the worst advice in the world. So I guess I'm down to these questions: Is the salinity of 1.021 wayyyy to high?......Are the brown bellies the puffers get a sign of disease or stress?.....
I'm sorry to bother you, <no bother at all. Salinity should be somewhere between 1.021 to 1.025. I have seen green spotted puffers in freshwater, salt water, and everywhere in between. I personally like to see them in brackish water. If they were acclimated slowly to full-blown salt water they should be ok. The color change is normal, as long as they are not showing any other signs of sickness. Does not sound like too much to worry about, just keep an eye on water quality and let us know if they are showing any other symptoms. Best Regards, Gage>
Thank You,
Brandon Roth

Puffer sickness
<<Hello, JasonC here at your service.>>
I have two puffers with problems. One is (I think) a Tetraodon
nigroviridis--and an exceptionally beautiful one at that--and the only way I can think to describe the problem is that the puffer looks like its skin was painted on, only to have some youngster come along and touch its back before the paint was dry. It is eating fine, swimming around pretty well, etc. I first thought that one of my figure eights may have bitten this fish on the back, only I have moved it to a different tank, and the problem persists. At one time it appeared as if part of this marking was slightly raised on its back, but it now seems to have subsided. There are actually 2 spots on its back that look this way--maybe only a couple of scrapes?--but I cannot identity what they may be. <<I agree, it's probably just a scrape or previous bite from the puffer-removed.>> I should add that this particular puffer has been with me for little more than a week. <<Give it some time.>>
The second puffer is a figure eight that I've had for a couple of months now, and its back also has a spot, only it looks very much more like a bite. It has a white tinge to it, and it was definitely raised for some time. I believe that ick developed for a while, because the white spots came on and seemed to be connected to the original big white spot on its back. I treated the fish for ick with alternate treatments of Melafix and ick remover, but while the little spots went away, the white fleshy bump remained on its back. Is it simply taking a while to heal, or could it be something else, and entirely unrelated to the ick? <<These things always take time... usually a month or more.>> And by the way, it too is eating well and moving about pretty much all of the time. <<As long as it's eating and getting around fine, I wouldn't be too concerned.>>
Thanks a lot--
Andy Barton
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Sick Puffers
<<Hi Andy! This is Ananda. The WetWebCrew sent me your puffer questions.>>
I have two puffers with problems.
<<Okay, first set of questions, since they may help with the diagnosis: how many puffers, and which types, do you have in with the two that  have problems? Are they in different tanks, or the same tank? And what  are their tank conditions? I'm looking for ammonia and nitrate values,  and specific gravity values if you're keeping them in brackish water.>>
One is (I think) a Tetraodon  nigroviridis--and an exceptionally beautiful one at that--and the only way I can think to describe the problem is that the puffer looks like its skin was painted on, only to have some youngster come along and touch its back before the paint was dry.
<<Is the spot perfectly round, or oval, or irregular?>>
It is eating fine, swimming around pretty well, etc.
<<Good signs.>>
I first thought that one of my figure eights may have bitten this fish on the back, only I have moved it to a different tank, and the problem persists.
<<If indeed it is a bite from one of the figure eight puffers, it may  take a while to heal.>>
At one time it appeared as if part of this marking was slightly raised on its back, but it now seems to have subsided.
<<Could be a sign of irritation of the area: when the irritation is new, the area would swell up, but then the swelling might subside later. I remember numerous childhood scrapes would do the same thing.>>
There are actually 2 spots on its back that look this way--maybe only a couple of scrapes?--but I cannot identity what they may be.  I should add that this particular puffer has been with me for little more than a week.
<<Hmmm. How big is this puffer in relation to the others in the tank? It may be that a figure-eight (or other puffer?) is trying to establish dominance and bit the new guy in the tank. If this is true, you may  need a bigger tank to contain that group, or, as you did, split the  group. On the other hand, what kinds of tank decorations do you have?  If you have anything remotely sharp, they could indeed be scrapes.  Puffs love to hide in, around, and under things, so I can imagine the  new fish in the tank might easily scratch itself on the decorations  while it's hiding.>>
The second puffer is a figure eight that I've had for a couple of  months now, and its back also has a spot, only it looks very much more like a bite.
<<How so? How long has it had this spot?>>
It has a white tinge to it,
<<A white tinge? Not pure white? Is it a paler version of the color  around it?>>
and it was definitely raised for some time.  I believe that ick developed for a while, because the white spots came on and seemed to be connected to the original big white spot on its back.
<<Were there any white spots on its fins or tail? I would expect both with ich.>>
I treated the fish for ick with alternate treatments of MelaFix and ick remover,
<<Melafix won't help with ich, but won't hurt, either. What "ick  remover" did you use? Puffers are particularly sensitive to many  medications.>>
but while the little spots went away, the white fleshy bump remained  on its back. Is it simply taking a while to heal, or could it be something else, and entirely unrelated to the ick?
<<My suspicion is that it is something else entirely....Can you send us digital photos, of both fish? That should make it *much* easier to  identify this.>>
And by the way, it too is eating well and moving about pretty much all of the time.
<<Again, this is a good sign.>>
Thanks a lot--Andy Barton
<<No problem. Always willing to help.--Ananda>>

Re: Sick Puffers
Unfortunately I am having a hard time getting the pictures to come out.  Do you have any suggestions?  Should the room be well lit? or dark with only the aquarium lights?  et cetera.
<<Ananda here while the regular WetWebMedia crew is off at MACNA....
 Usually, I keep all the lights on -- tank lights, room lights, etc. If you're getting flash glare from the glass, try taping a piece of tissue paper over the flash. This will diffuse the light enough to keep it from causing glare on the tank glass.>>
I've been using half dosages of Maracide and Melafix, and the figure eight seems to be doing fine.  The ick is gone, and the white bump on its back seems to be shrinking.
<<Ah, good -- half doses for double the duration is what I use for all scaleless fish.>>
The spotted puffer's marks have turned white.  No swelling--I'm hoping this is a sign of its skin healing itself (and not some creature inside fooling around.
<<Keep an eye on it. And skin irritations are one of the instances where Melafix can help, as it may prevent secondary infections from setting in.>>
I'll still tell you the conditions of the tank, just in case you see something that sounds fishy.  The pH was always around 7.8, the nitrates and ammonia has not been a problem at all since the first cycle of the tank some months ago. The salinity in the water was between 1.001 and 1.004, and there were roughly
8 or 9 African cichlids in there.  There were hardly any instances where the different species attacked one another.  The fiercest cichlid occasionally started for one of the puffers, realized who it was, and left.  So I don't really think it was one of them that caused any of these problems.
<<That specific gravity is fine for both types of puffers you mentioned. I've heard other tales of cichlids and puffers together, but haven't tried it myself.>>
One last thing--I don't really know the hardness of the water.  When I tried to do the test, I could never get the orange liquid to turn green.  I must not understand the procedure, because otherwise my general and carbonate hardnesses are off the charts.
<<One thing they don't tell you about that particular test: once you start adding salt, whether it's cichlid salt, brackish salt, or marine salt, you're increasing both the general and carbonate hardness. All of those salts include other minerals, since cichlids and brackish fish do not live in soft water, and marine systems need a lot of extra minerals... so I'm not at all surprised that you can't get the color change to happen. The one time I tested my brackish puffer tank and decided to keep going until the color changed, I used something like 58 drops!>>
My basic understanding was that I needed to worry more about the water being too soft, so I didn't worry much about it.
<<Good. Your water hardness is fine.>>
Now I have two final questions, and unless you hear from me again you can assume that the ailments went away.  First of all--pH--how important is it?
<<Varies depending on the fish species.... less so overall for fish that are brackish or somewhat brackish-tolerant like your puffers. What is more important is that the pH remain constant, rather than keeping it at, say, 7.0 rather than 7.2, for example.>>
Figure eights require a lower pH than green spotted puffers, so will this be a big problem to keep it at 7.8 (that's what it comes out of the tap at)?
<<My tap water is 7.6, and my puffers are not complaining. I think you should be okay.>>
And what is the method of adjusting pH?  I used proper 7.0 for some dwarf puffers, only to find out later that it was unsuitable for use with live plants.
<<Interesting. You might look for some plant-friendly pH adjusters... or, perhaps, look into using RO/DI water, which is usually quite acidic, and then buffer the RO/DI water accordingly. I have never tried to decrease the pH here, so will pass this question along to the rest of the WWM crew.>>
And in general it just seemed to make the pH much more unstable than when I just left it alone.
<<Exactly the reason I have never tried to decrease the pH of my tank water. One thing you will need to watch is "alkalinity" -- not how "alkaline" the water is in terms of pH, but how resistant the water is to having its pH changed by other factors. Read here for more info: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/phalkbrackish.htm >>
Additionally, one of the local pet stores has been telling me that he'll get some target puffers in soon, and these prefer (all of my numbers are from fishbase or PufferNet) 7.0.  Would this be a bad idea to group these different puffers?  Not much written on target puffers.
<<Are you referring to Tetraodon leiurus? If so, the reports I'm seeing are that it is very aggressive and is best kept in its own tank. >>
What's a reasonable salt level? Most people say that figure eights are freshwater, but spotted's (either nigroviridis or fluviatilis) prefer some salt.  What's you advice here?
<<Several things to consider here. When they are very young, spotted puffers can tolerate freshwater; conversely, figure eights seem to be tolerant of low levels of salt (s.g. of around 1.004). The spotted puffers require more salt as they get older -- one first-hand report tells of them being in an area with specific gravities from 1.010 to 1.019. Also, the spotteds get significantly larger than the figure eights.
My inclination is that the two species can be kept together for a while, in freshwater conditions and later low-brackish conditions (sg 1.002-1.006, tops). Eventually the spotted puffers will get sufficiently larger than the figure eights and the two species should be separated. Then the salinity in the system for the spotteds can be increased gradually, until it is over 1.010 when they are adults.>>
and what about if I get a target puffer in there?
<<I've read that they are freshwater and brackish, so IF by chance it gets along with the other puffers, it should be okay in the same conditions. From what I've read, I don't think I could recommend the combination.>>
Lastly, the pet store folks simply have no idea as to what sort of spotted green variety I have, so do you have any suggestions as to how they can be told apart?  This one definitely has no spikes on its belly (mark out spotted Congo).  It also does not seem very round.  Its head is pretty large and wide, and its back and belly are relatively flat.  If I were judging from PufferNet, I'd definitely call it a fluviatilis (more the torpedo than the club), but judging from most other people it's a complete toss-up.  The guy at the pet store swore up and down that it was freshwater, but I can't say I trust him since they can't tell me which species it is, and since the other workers say it is brackish.
<<The Puffernet article is the best one I know of...though I do wish it included more photos. I have to admit to not being adept at telling the two species apart.>>
Thanks, and hope this isn't too long. Andy Barton
<<No, not too long -- more information is good. Also, please consider sharing your experiences on the WetWeb forums at http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/index.jsp -- many of the brackish crew there would love to hear about your puffers! Thanks, Ananda>>

Big teeth, skinny puffer
Hi Bob,
just came onto your amazingly informative and meaty website. I've had my
college son's recycled fish for about 3 years, two green-headed puffers about
3 inches long.
No problem with the tank, their care or anything else as they seem to be very
hardy. They've lived on a diet of snails and Gambusia from my water lily ponds
outside....but lately, I see that one of the puffers is much skinnier than
the other and cannot eat as quickly and efficiently as the other little
blimp. In fact, his "smile" is exaggerated, those big teeth looking like a
Colgate commercial.
<Likely there is some negative interaction between these animals... you might try two feeding areas... some sort of ready meaty foods like cocktail shrimp pieces, live snails, frozen worms of any fish food sort... placed at either end of the system at the same time>
I've read about filing the overgrown teeth of puffers. These are pretty
small fish. I don't think a Dremel would work, but then, what do I know?!
<Can work... but for small puffer species and individuals, it's fine to provide hard foods and let them "whittle down" their teeth on their own>
I've asked my Vet, the aquarium guys and no one knows how to approach filing
the teeth of such wee puffers. In fact, I've been advised several times to
just flush the fish down the toilet since they're inexpensive fish.....and to
get new ones! 
<I'd flush that idea... Talk about the "toilet assumption", "out of sight, out of mind", sheesh>
Okay, no. What would His Holiness the Dalai Lama say to
that?!!
<Ask him, or read his writings. Am sure he would not agree with such a careless practice>
So, what can you kindly advise me as far as helping Mr. Skinny Smiley out?
Thank you for your dedication and kindness.
Robin
<Do look into "hard" foods, growing snails, adding dried wood, other decor to allow the animals to chew their teeth down. Bob Fenner>

Re: big teeth, skinny puffer
thank you, Bob, I will try all the tips you've provided. I agree that the
big puffer is aggressive towards the skinny one. Putting myself in the skinny
one's place, I can see that constant "bullying stress" is probably the number
one reason for the problem. 
<Well put, agreed>
No matter how many snails or Gambusia I feed
them, the big one zips over to try and claim them all while the little one
zags out of the way. I will fix that situation today and begin providing
wood, etc., for their small but formidable teeth.
Thanks again,
Robin
<Please make it known how all proceeds. Bob Fenner>

Re: big teeth, skinny puffer
Well, I put a home-made dividing screen (old onion bag netting so it's
thoroughly de-gassed and safe) stapled to old wooden frames (untreated) from
my paper-making days. It fits neatly down the middle of the tank. Dropped a
few Gambusia into both sides and wee snails and fish for the skinny Mr.
Big Grin; bigger ones for El Blimpo. This is the first time I'm seeing the
little puffer eat and get that distinctive round look, albeit, a bit slower
than his big brother. Or sister.
<Great!>
So it's working okay for a crude set-up. I will get a separate tank for the
little puffer this weekend. Sheesh, I hope my son wants these fish back when
he returns from his teaching engagement (in rural Japan) next year! Thanks a
million for your help!
robin
<A pleasure and honor my friend. Bob Fenner>

Figure 8 puffer
Hello, I have a figure 8 puffer and had him in my African C. tank. He and my green spotted pufferfish did well in that tank for close to 6 months. They have gotten beat up quite a bit recently so I took them out. the Green spotted puffer I threw (adjusted the salinity for him in about 30 min before dumping him) into my salt water tank and he is doing great. 
<Yikes... this is a quick (and dangerous) transition... likely damaging to your puffer internally... these changes need to be made over a period of a few weeks to months>
I then weeks later tried the same thing to my figure 8 and he has not fared as well. His eyes got extremely cloudy and his color faded. He was only in the saltwater for a night. I then saw my poor fish in the morning and put him in my molly (brackish) breeding tank to recover.
<Good move... you likely saved its life>
I added some Melafix to the tank and his eyes are clearing up slightly. What should I do to further his recovery? I also thought the figure 8 could go to full saltwater.
<Please read over the brackish water articles posted here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/BrackishSubWebIndex.htm
The Figure Eight, Tetraodon biocellatus is actually a freshwater to brackish fish. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Chad

Jumping Puffer!
Hey Bob, <<Hello, it's JasonC today, Bob has taken off on another diving trip to some tropical place...>>
I feel very fortunate to have stumbled across WWM about 6 weeks ago. This is an unbelievably informative website. <<Glad you find it useful.>> It is very discouraging to find so much misinformation, as well as conflicting information on the web in regard to aquaria. Much thanks for a Great site.
I was in the process of setting up a brackish tank when I found WWM. I found all the answers on WWM that I had searched desperately for all over the web. Thanks to you, I now have a thriving Brackish tank. <<Glad to hear it.>>
My tank is a 20 gallon Hex, Temp 79 degrees, specific gravity .005, pH 8.1, 1 32w 7100k & 1 32w 10000k compact fluorescence lights, etc.. I planted it with an Amazon Sword, a Pigmy Chain sword, Java fern and Java Moss, and spiralis grass, all of which are doing great. I stocked the tank with 3 mollies to help cycle the tank, then later added 2 Green or Spotted Scats, 1"-1 1/2", (Scatophagus Argus) and then 3 weeks ago I added a Green Puffer, 1",(Tetraodon fluviatilis). I feed them twice daily with either Brine, Mysis shrimp, or Blood worms, and occasionally some flakes.
With the exception of the dominate Scat chasing around the other Scat, everyone is getting along wonderfully (thus far).
Here are my questions:
1) My puffer, who has an amazing appetite and is very active, has recently started jumping out of the water ( there is no way for him to jump out of the tank), <<You have a lid on it then...>> and sometimes "porpoises", for lack of a better term, around the tank.
This is not due to being startled although he will occasionally dart across the tank or jump if startled.
Is this normal? <<I'm not familiar with the behavior, but can tell you it's really hard to know the motivations of fish.>> Could there be a medical issue? <<Could be - keep up the observation and time will tell.>> He seems very happy, and none of the other fish bully him or vise versa.
2) How long before my Scats need to go totally Marine? <<Rather than prattle on and on, I would direct your reading interests to this article:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/Scatart.htm >>
Being notorious plant eaters, Will they reap havoc in my reef tank? <<Certainly possible.>>
Thanks for your help, Miles
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Tetraodon fluviatilis
How much salt can Tetraodon fluviatilis stand?
<I would feel comfortable with as much as one level tablespoon per gallon. -Steven Pro>

Puffer Skin Problem??
<<Greetings, JasonC here...>>
I have a green spotted puffer,.. great color/white underside. I have had him for quite some time now and he has been very healthy and active, and still is. I just noticed a raised spot on his back that has me a little concerned. One of the black spots on him is raised a bit and looks a little different. It is only affecting this one black spot and is circled with a little white (but not ick). I have looked on your site to see if perhaps someone has already asked of this particular problem but didn't see anything similar to my description.
Does this sound familiar? <<Not especially, no.>> I have checked the water... the condition is good and the salinity is fine. Does this mean a parasite??? <<Would be my guess.>> I don't know! Please help...
<<I would just keep my eye on it - a single parasite isn't going to harm your puffer, a whole fleet of them would be a different story. As long as it is still eating and behaving normally, I wouldn't be overly concerned and just make sure it doesn't spread. If you see more of these lumps, then consider some isolation and treatment in a hospital tank.>>
~Alecia
P.S.
You have a WONDERFUL site! I love visiting it, it has just so much information. <<Glad it is useful for you.>> I also want to say thanks for answering my occasional questions and the questions of others...
your generosity does not go unnoticed!!! I think the fish appreciate it too : ) <<I hope so... Cheers, J -- >>

Brackish Puffers
Hi Bob,
<<Hello, it's JasonC this time...>>
I am attempting to set up a Brackish Aquarium and am finding info. that is quite contradictory to that of our local fish stores.... <<Not unusual at all.>> I had owned a green-spotted puffer a couple years ago, unfortunately fell deeply in love with the fish...he died about a month after I purchased him. I was quite heart broken and decided to go back to freshwater.
Admittedly, I did not do much homework on caring for such a fish. I have a 55 gallon tank, w/ lots of plants (artificial) and caves, rocks etc. I was told to acquire a PH of 7.5-8.0. Which I have...on every site I read, it states low 7's..that is a big discrepancy. I was not told anything about salt at all. I need salts?? <<Oh yes, brackish is specifically something between ocean water and fresh water, and even this can vary a little bit depending on the species you want to keep.>>
Another issue is that of food...I was told to feed roughly 6 guppies/wk for one puffer. But, I have heard nothing of guppies, only of brine and shrimp pellets. <<I wouldn't recommend the brine shrimp or live guppies. There are many pellet and flake foods which would provide more complete nutrition.>>
I am only bothering you because I have read so much and to be quite honest, growing impatient and discouraged due to all the different info. <<No need to be discouraged. Continue with your research and at a certain point you formulate your own consensus.>>
I currently have a green spotted puffer on hold at the store.. pls. help. I just need the basics.
<<Here's a great place to start: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/bracsetup.htm >>
Thanks for your time,
Kim De Cell
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Spotted Puffers
<<Greetings, JasonC here...>>
How does one tell the difference in sexes among green puffers and green spotted puffers??? <<Sexual differences in these are internal, no way to tell from the outside.>>
I cant find breeding/sexing information on this breed of fish anywhere... perhaps you know or will know where to look. 
~Thanx!! Alecia
<<Cheers, J -- >>

T. fluviatilis or not T. fluviatilis?
Esteemed Mr. Fenner,
<Steamed, like rice?>
I have two spotted puffers sold to me as Tetraodon fluviatilis, when I bought them both looked similar and I requested the liveliest of the bunch. The pet store had them in brackish water and being impatient I brought them even though the tank I had cycled at home was freshwater (a little salt). I raised the salinity in the 20gal. tank to 1.002 while I acclimated the puffers to the new temp. in their little baggie. This being done I guess I crashed my bacteria because it was touch and go with ammonia and nitrate levels for awhile and the tank was cycled for 2 weeks and both levels were 0 before I added more salt (and puffers). 
<Yes, astute of you to notice>
Anyway, now the ammonia and nitrate are fine: temp.78, pH 8.0, sal. 1.002.
But one puffer seems much happier than the other...his belly is always black I read here about the color of their bellies changing and it does for one but the others stays black. Black belly is also much rounder and I suspect that I have two different kinds of puffer, maybe one fluviatilis (brackish) and one nigroviridis (freshwater)?
<Maybe... I would like to suggest another more likely possibility. That one is "happier" than the other... or reciprocally, that one is making the other miserable... typical amongst these species>
The pet store says that they could be different but could offer no suggestions for keeping both happy in the same tank. Should I try to take the balloon shaped one (I suspect nigroviridis) with the black belly to a freshwater tank? How would I do this without killing the fish?
<You need to ascertain the species definitively... do take a look through the pix on fishbase.org re... and re switching, acclimating them to other spg/salinities, can be done (slowly) over a period of days to weeks... by water changes, addition of less or more salty make up water...>
Also I notice that one has a pattern of very small spots or specs (not disease) tapering off into the tail while the other has a "clear" tail, I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere as a possible way to tell these two apart but...Please help me make these fish happy. Thanks, Tim
<Again, very observant of you. The markings are likely more to do with stress than species differences. I would separate these two. Bob Fenner>

Re: T. fluviatilis or not T. fluviatilis?
Thank you for the quick reply, I will begin separate the two and see what
happens. The fish with the black belly actually seems to bully the lighter
one a bit... Thanks again, Tim
<Yes... understood you to state this... yet it may well be the more stressed individual of the two just the same... as you'll see. Bob Fenner>

Re: T. fluviatilis or not T. fluviatilis?
Mr. Fenner, I separated the two and put the one I thought might be T. nigroviridis in freshwater. The result has been dramatic. Like two different fish. The LFS said to just lower the salinity in the brackish tank and "let them adapt" but I thought they were a bit flippant about the whole issue, hopefully all fish will remain happy as they are. Thanks for your help. Tim
<A pleasure my friend. Delighted to read of your diligence. Bob Fenner>

Spotted puffers
just purchased 3 small spotted puffers for my 30 gallon hex tank. puffers are about 1" to 1 1/2" long. how many can my 30 gal hex accommodate and what is the preferred list of food for them? josh Nichols
<these adorable little creatures are extremely aggressive to each other and to other fish as they mature!!! They will literally pick each others eyes out. I'll be surprised if you keep three in this 30 unscathed for more than a year. Much has been written in the FAQs and beyond on our WetWebMedia site. Please do peruse starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwpuffers.htm
Please be sure to explore the links for the FAQs near the top of the page. Best regards, Anthony>

Spotted puffers
I just purchased 3 small spotted puffers for my 30 gallon hex tank. The puffers are about 1" to 1 1/2" long. How many can my 30 gallon hex accommodate and what is the preferred list of food for them? Josh Nichols
<Well Josh, shame on you for not asking those questions before you purchased them. Please see here regarding their care and growth http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/fwbracpuffers.htm -Steven Pro>

Sick Puffer
Hi, I hope you can help me here ...
<that makes two of us>
I've a 150l tank running at 1.006/78F with external canister, UV & Nitrate reductor (as the Scats ate all the plants). Chemistry seems OK (NH3-0; N02-0; NO3-<20; PO4<0.5; PH 8.2) with hardness kept high from the coral sand. Other inhabitants are a couple of orange Chromides, a few bumblebees, a couple of scats and some Madagascan rainbows. Tank is mature and has a regular 20L RO change weekly. My green spotted puff has definitely come down with something: completely off his food (not even live shrimps tempt him), and has now turned almost totally dark brown (even his belly); he mostly lies on the bottom, often at an odd angle, and occasionally does odd pirouettes and has inflated himself at least once (the only time I have ever seen this in the 15mths I've had him). No obvious external signs (spots, ich, redness etc.) and no fish / major maintenance recently.
<sounds like it may be a problem with a physical parameter of water quality. Has the salinity or temperature strayed by chance? I must also say that the mix of fish that you have is highly unusual and definitely incompatible in the long term. The scats will be too large and fast/competitive for most other fishes (intimidating), the puffer if it survives is too toothy and aggressive and the bumble bees are too small and passive. And lastly, the species you keep favor a very wide range of differing salinities as adults>
Other fish seems OK but three weeks ago I lost my violet goby - just found him dead when I got home - without any apparent reason.
Any suggestions as to what I might do to save him ? DR
<please explore the following page of links for brackish systems and setup at:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex
Best regards, Anthony>

Sick puff ...
Thanks for the info. He's still hanging in there 
<very good to hear>
and I'm using Myxazin more in hope than to treat anything specific. I don't *know* of any temp. changes / power outages etc. although I do cycle the salinity between 1.004 and 1.007 as I do the RO changes.
<perhaps a bit much for a swing in SG... do try to temper this swing>
As for the fish, a bit of a mixture and yes - the scats will go marine fairly soon. They all seem to get on and though I've put lots of hiding places in the rocks/décor that the scats and puff are too big/fat to get
into, 
<heehee...very well>
the bumble bees seem happy to just keep out of their way. The only loss to the puffer was a red-clawed crab last fall when he eventually grew big enough to take the crab on (or improved his technique).
Thanks again for the advice DR
<best regards, my friend. Anthony>

Brackish Porcupine Puffer
Hi Bob! <<Actually JasonC, hello to you.>> I saw a porcupine puffer at LFS. it is listed as freshwater or brackish spices. is there a such species? <<I looked through my limited resources of freshwater puffers and couldn't find one that is not smooth skinned. Perhaps it is mis-labeled?>> I thought porcupine puffer lives in marine water? <<The classic 'Porcupine Puffer', Diodon Holocanthus is indeed a saltwater fish. Here's a link:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/diodontpuffers.htm 
If any of these are the fish you saw, then the store has mis-labeled it.>>
Please explain..... <<I'm not sure I can. I'd be asking the fish store to explain. Cheers, J -- >>

Green-spotted puffer skin problems
<<Greetings,>>
We recently purchased a beautiful green spotted puffer. He is very healthy acting and eats very well. I have been reading a great deal about the skin problems they can have and I have come to the conclusion that something is going on now with ours. He has white patches about the size of his black spots all over him now. We have had him only about a week. It does not look like ick and no other fish in our tank has showed any sign of his similarity. Does any of this sound familiar to you? How would we go about treating him. <<I would look first to water quality issues - make sure pH is correct and water is changed often with chlorine-free water.>> We have recently started the salt thing and I am hoping that will help. <<Ahh good - these are brackish puffers, a small amount of salt is a must. If you haven't read this page, do check this URL and the FAQs beyond:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/fwbracpuffers.htm >> 
It is very unfortunate indeed that pet shop employees don't have a clue about such delicate fish. <<indeed.>> Also, are there any books out there specifically on freshwater puffers that you know of? <<Specifically on these puffers, no but you might try a web-based search with a tool like Google or ask in the brackish section of our forum, http://wetwebfotos.com/talk/ >> Thanks, Lori. 
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Haven't a clue (Starving brackish puffer on its last fin)
hello there. first let me say that I am a bit nervous to ask any questions...
<No need>
after reading some of your responses*l*hopefully, you won't make me look like a complete idiot who hasn't fully researched the whole situation. 
I have had fresh, brackish and marine water fish for about seven years-although, do not consider myself an 'expert'-
<Me neither>
and never have I encountered a "sick" fish quite like this. let me also say that my water qualities are up to par. now here is my situation-please, don't be brutal-
I have a figure eight puffer who is about three years old. he has no visible signs of illness no redness, no spots, no nothing). he has not eaten in several weeks. I have tried everything. at first he would eat and then seem to vomit it back up the food would be covered in mucus like stuff) he was very active and then he became very still when he started vomiting. since then he has stayed on the bottom of the tank and in the past week he has rolled over to his back. it is like a sick puppy dog, when he sees me look
in at him, his fins start moving and his eyes roll toward me, but still he doesn't move or roll over to his belly. I had asked someone else for help and they said it was more than likely old age. 
I have to agree, but he said
to make things dark and calm for him he's in a tank by himself). I thought he would die rather quickly, but he has not. he is literally starving to death and it kills me to see him suffer. please, tell me if you think he is sick or just old and god forbid, if I can't do a thing to help him. thanks for your time, Hon.
sincerely,
veronica
<I would very likely try force-feeding this fish... with very small, cut up meaty foods... with the animal out on a wet towel... and possibly try "lacing" the food (maybe on the second day/try) with a vitamin prep. (and possibly Flagyl) material. Good luck, life. Bob Fenner>

Puffer Diets (FW/Brackish)
Hey guys,
I recently bought 4 dwarf puffers and am keeping
them on a diet of mainly snails. I was wondering if
these puffs will eat newly hatched baby brine
shrimp/Artemia? 
<perhaps as frozen cubes... a somewhat nutritious food, but still should not be any significant part of the diet...much better foods to be had. Do offer a variety of meaty frozen foods like Mysid, shrimp, shredded krill, clam, squid...so much more>
And what other live foods can I feed these guys? 
<live ghost or grass shrimp are fine food when the puffers are big enough>
Lastly, I wanted to get a slow moving freshwater fish so the puffs can just nip on the fins whenever they're hungry, any suggestions?
<part of me suspects that this last question is serious, but most of me hopes you are just joking. There is a distinct difference between offering appropriately selected/sized live prey as part of a diet in stark opposition to an inappropriate (oversized, slow, etc) for the inhumane torture of another living creature. I would be surprised if you were an aquarist that lacked what I thought was inalienable empathy for all living creatures. And for the benefit of all reading this post, let me state for the record that I have no qualms about feeding live prey to captive predators conditionally. I am not a "bleeding heart liberal" or "tree-hugging eco-Nazi" or anything of the like...heehee. In fact, as a lifelong companion of exotic predators... I suspect that I have a stronger stomach for the natural order than most. Not the least of my distinguished guests was a 14" Burmese python that ate small farm animals (admittedly frozen most always). But a slow moving meal of a fish for your puffers is not only cruel to suffer a slow death, but irresponsible to your favored fishes as the prey will be stressed and quite vulnerable to an infectious disease which could ironically spread to your puffers. No, my friend...I am not aware of a suitable live fish for this purpose. Yikes! Best regards... please do keep reading and self-educating for the benefit of all. And I'll be sure not to fall asleep or look slow if I'm ever a guest in your house <smile>. Kindly, Anthony>

Questions on our Leopard Puffer (Help)
Hi,
I have a couple questions about my puffer. We have one puffer in a 10 gallon tank with 3 mollies. We feed the puffer frozen shrimp brine, but I recently learned that puffer fish eat snails as well. So I went to the pet store and bought a white snail to feed it. The puffer won't even touch it. Do the puffers need to eat the snail shells to file down their teeth??? 
<yes... critical!>
How do I get it to eat snails?? Is it the wrong kind of snail???
<try the common nuisance (small brown) pond snails found of live plants (just look in most any sale tank of live plants at the LFS...these snails are not for sale species... they are usually a nuisance). The marketed snails (for sale species) are often too large or too hard for small puffers>
My next question is about heavy breathing. Our puffer looks like its having trouble breathing. It also sits on the bottom of the tank, but when you walk up to the glass it starts swimming around. Also I noticed it changes colors a lot. It turns a dark green and gets black patches or areas around its mouth. Is this normal?? 
<your puffer needs brackish water... have you added and measured the salinity of your tank with a hydrometer?>
We change our water regularly and are other fish are fine.
<"other fish" sounds scary... brackish puffers are best kept in a species tank because of their special needs and aggression which becomes quite severe with age (not the least of which includes biting the eyes out of other fish in time!)>
The water temp. stays between 76 - 78 degrees. We also put a little marine salt in the water for the puffer and the mollies. We are confused.
<please buy and use a hydrometer if not doing so already (else adding salt is pot luck). And it sounds like there is much you still need/would like to learn about puffers. Please explore the following page and links at the top: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwpuffers.htm
please be sure to follow and read the links to FAQ's...they can be quite illuminating!>
Please Help Thank You Deidra / Nolan
<best regards, Anthony>

Which is which? (Spotted Green Brackish Puffers)
I wrote you a few days ago now I have another question; I have seen in
many sources, yours included, the names Tetraodon fluviatilis and
Tetraodon figroviridis as what seem to be the same fish. I cannot tell
the difference through the photos I have seen between one and the other
species, or if there even is one; the fish I have looks like all the
photos I have seen associated with these names, except one; In your
archives you have Tetraodon fluviatilis with 2 completely different
pictures for the same name. This is important to me in my research of my
particular species of puffer and how he needs to live. I am now so
utterly confused, please help! My fishy needs this info! =)
<Sorry for the confusion. I only find the one image associated with the name Tetraodon fluviatilis (though both species do come into the trade... from the same countries... and are... yes, unfortunately called the same in the trade. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufferfaqs.htm re someone else's input on this "name game". Bob Fenner>
Thanks
Mallika

Seeking Spotted Puffer Info
Hello
<cheers>
I have what is commonly known as a Green Spotted Pufferfish; he has
black spots on his top side, a white underside, and underneath his spots
he has a fluorescent green color. I have had these before, but have been
unsuccessful. I was wondering if you might be able to give me a few tips
for keeping this guy alive, as I do love him! I have a 20 gallon tank, I know my ammonia and nitrite levels are pretty low (almost unreadable), my ph is between 7 and 7.5 , my salinity (brackish tank) is approximately .5 -.75 teaspoons per gallon, and my puffer lives with a baby Mono and a Mollie who have lived quite happily in the tank for a few months. I have been feeding my puffer frozen bloodworms and krill because he is still small. I know there are other foods but I wanted a definite answer as to what these were. So any information or tips you have as to feeding and tank conditions for this guy would be much appreciated, as I am sadly uneducated on this species. Thanks again
Mallika
<when in doubt, always consult our extensive archives of articles photos and FAQs first. You will rarely be at a loss. For this topic, begin with the following page and explore all links:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwpuffers.htm
Best regards, Anthony>

Figure eight puffer
Hello,
<Cheerio, old sport! Anthony Calfo in your service>
I have owned a freshwater fish tank of some form for many years.
Whether it was 50 gallon, 20, or 10 (I have a 10 right now because of
the convenience), I have never really paid attention to pH, ammonia,
etc. 
<like an ice pick in my ears...hehe>
I use a water X and add a teaspoon of salt for every 10 gallons.
<I like that part <wink>>
Right now I have a 10 gallon tank that follows me pretty much
everywhere. 
<most people have cats and puppies for this but hey... enjoy>
Today I bought a figure eight puffer, I have always wanted
a puffer and finally I decided to get one, but not before asking the
dealer a bunch of questions. He said that although he may get
territorial, he is a good community fish. 
<you dealer is a fibber <G>>
He said the fish will eat flake food, which is what I normally feed my fish, but I often give brine shrimp. 
<Puffers are cute, lovable and dedicated fin nippers. They also will suffer on a diet of flake and brine shrimp. As crustacean eaters, they need hard shelled foods to wear down their naturally growing teeth. Without it the teeth will become overgrown to the point where the animal cannot feed. As such flake food is too soft and brine-shrimp without enrichment (Selcon soaked and the like) is a useless fare that is essentially water made to look like shrimp. Too bad it is so well liked by fish... it is the lowest grade food. Add frozen Mysid, krill and plankton to the diet (freeze dried krill too). Some folks keep fast breeding live snails (the puffers love them!!!) to help with the teeth too>
He said my salinity would be fine. 
<probably although they could take and might enjoy a lot more salt to truly be brackish>
Once I bought the fish and released him into the tank, everything at the moment appears to be fine. I haven't fed yet, so I don't know how that will go. I started looking things up on the net here and one guy has me really afraid. He seems to know what he is talking about, but he says that having all these conditions right is vital and puffers are very sensitive. Can you help me out a little here? 
<some truth to it... they are scale less fish and as such are sensitive to water quality and medications>
Also, since I have released my figure eight puffer into the tank, he has swam up and down the side wall non-stop. It appears normal, but I saw a comment somewhere saying this was a bad thing, is this true? 
<common but not normal or healthy in the long run. A stress induced response to many factors (salinity, light, water quality, etc)>
Please help me out, thanks.
<no problem my friend... much has been written on this topic. Do a search on this site (tag the bullet for WWM only under the keyword field at the bottom of the home page) and look through the archives of FAQs. Much information there. Also, look through the brackish articles by following the links from the WWM homepage as well. I suspect that you will be enlightened and able to enjoy your puffer very soon. Best regards, Anthony>
Dave

A question about my puffer
<<JasonC here, giving Bob time to pack for his dive trip.>>
Hi! I have a problem with my puffer and was hoping you could offer some
advice I have a green spotted puffer who is running himself to death we are watching our poor friend slowly kill himself. He is in a 20 gallon tank, salt level is 1.010 ph 8.2 temp 78-80 degrees, two filters one of them a Biowheel. Abe's behavior started when he began to get adult markings, he goes in an almost constant routine of up and down in the rear corner of the tank, hides when approached, and is now refusing to eat he will go up to the food and check it out and then turns away sometimes he does manage a few bites before retreating back to the corner. We offer a large variety of food: fresh crab, ghost shrimp are plentiful, frozen brine shrimp and blood worms. His tank companions consist of (ghost shrimp) two bumblebee gobies. We have done water changes, small scenery changes (which he used to love) and nothing seems to snap him out of the behavior. Before the markings started to change he would happily gobble down anything offered and would hunt down ghost shrimp simply for the joy of the hunt and seemed rather proud of showing of his round belly. now he is looking like a refugee of Wal-mart and I am afraid he isn't going to be a part of our family much longer. 
Are there any suggestions you could offer to help my little Abe out? 
Thanks in advance Cindy Ivie
<<Gosh, it would seem that you are doing all the right things, and while I don't keep any brackish puffers myself, I do know that ANY ghost shrimp around my Porcupine Puffer would just... well, they wouldn't be ghost shrimp anymore. A couple of things come to mind - one is that some new, biological imperative or hormonal change have washed over your puffer as it has come of age - and these things work themselves out most of the time. Doesn't mean the puffer won't scare you a bit on the way, but time will tell. The other thing I would look for is perhaps other water issues that you didn't mentioned here - how are your Nitrates? How often are you changing the water? Seems like you ran the list of puffer-favorite-foods - is there a food your puffer loves that you haven't tried - if so, try it now. Best of luck, J -- >>

Puffers
Dear Sir. I recently brought 4 Spotted Puffer Fish. Their just small things. First their in a 3 gallon aquarium . 
<dangerously small tank to keep them in>
Would a 20 or a 30 be best for them? 
<much better>
Will they live okay together ? 
<perhaps...but their is a lot of interspecific aggression with such species. Never to be sure>
And most of important. How can I tell male from female? I would like to try to breed them. And on the aquarium size I won't have much other fish in with them. Pls mail me back sir. But the thing I am most curious about is about sexing and breeding them. And if you don't know is their a place or a book that can tell me? Thank u Sir very much 
<there's a lot of information in articles and FAQ's on our WWM site on this topic... do research the following pages and the links at the top: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufferfaqs.htm, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpuffers.htm,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufffaqs2.htm,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm,
Best regards, Anthony Calfo>

Puffer teeth
Hello Mr. Fenner. Well....seems my green puffer's teeth have grown too long. He can still eat, and I'm feeding him snails regularly, but they don't seem to stop the growth. I've looked through your website and can't find an actual description for grinding down your puffers teeth (I apologize if I somehow missed it). 
How can I file down my puffers teeth.
<I assume that you browsed the FAQ's on this page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/diodontidfaqs.htm... beyond that it is about as simple as it sounds. A rotary tool (Dremel tm, or the like), a gently handled fish wrapped in a towel wet with aquarium water, a helper or IV drip raining saltwater in the gills for the short time that it takes (be sure not to stress the puffer when caught for the procedure). I'll make sure Bob gets this message with a request for a possible referral to published info(?) from the puffer queen (Kelly J). Kindly, Anthony Calfo>
Thank you, Mark Keusenkothen

New Puffer fish
My husband recently bought a puffer fish from our LFS. They called it a puffer, and upon closer questioning, called it a green spotted puffer. It was recommended to us by the same LFS to control snails in our tank. Ours is a freshwater aquarium and home to five neon tetras and a couple of catfish. They assured me it will be fine in our six gallon freshwater tank, but upon looking at various websites, I have my doubts.
<Your doubts are warranted. He will need specialized care; some salt in the water, larger tank, will probably eat the neons eventually, etc.>
This puffer has gone thru many many snails in the two days we've had him. In fact he's eaten them all and now I'm scavenging snails from the tank filter. As usual, dad and the kids have brought home a new pet, and mom gets to figure out how to keep him alive and hopefully happy and healthy. So, should I return him? Also, what to feed (the store gave us frozen baby brine shrimp to feed him, but he's completely uninterested - they're obviously too small for him, although the tetras were in heaven).
<Frozen Mysis shrimp and/or plankton would be better.>
Any advice is appreciated. I've looked thru your website and it's very helpful. However, now I'm inundated with often conflicting info and I need to go straight to the horse's mouth.
<Take a look here for a lot more info http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpufferfaqs.htm>
Thanks so much, Julie Billington
<Welcome to the hobby, Steven Pro>

Re: New Puffer fish
Thanks so much for the quick response! We got him/her some freeze-dried shrimp and some frozen brine shrimp. He liked the frozen shrimp and loved the freeze dried shrimp. I probably overfed him because I was so happy to seem him eating. The tetras continue to be impressed with the new additions to their diet. We're now scraping our pennies together for a 20 gallon tank. My main concern now is whether the catfish will tolerate the salt in the tank.
<It depends on the species of puffer and how much salt you will have to add to keep him happy. Most fish will be ok with 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of water. It is a pretty standard recommendation for various health reasons. It would be best when you get the 20 to keep both tanks up and separate the fish. Neons in one and the puffer in another.>
Thanks Again! -Julie
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Puffers
Hi, I have 5 Green Spotted Puffers, 2 1/2" long.
and 1 Figure 8 Puffer, 3/4"
How long do these kinds of Puffer live?
<Years if/when kept under properly maintained conditions>
and how big can they get?
<Please see the coverage on WWM: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwpuffers.htm and the FAQs files beyond>
I have them in a 77gal.
I also read that they should be in 6.5 -7.0 Ph. water, Is that right?
<Mmm, no... should be higher... see the brackish set-up, maintenance sections on WWM>
I have kept mine in Brackish water at 81*F Ph: 8.0 for 2 years and they're doing great.
Please e-mail me back, Thanks.
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Puffer
Dear Mr. Fenner,
Before I ask my question I must say what an awesome site you have. It is
truly remarkable. Well on to my question... I bought what I believed to be
3 Green puffers, Tetraodon fluviatilis at my LFS in mid November. I kept
them in a 20 gallon long tank with good water quality, ph, GH... etc. I also
kept them in brackish conditions of .007 salinity (The hydrometer was hard to
find, since most start at .01). 
<Sounds good so far>
Well all was well with all but one of the
puffers. He constantly kept trying to chew on the glass and would use bursts
of energy to shove his face on the glass. I thought it may be because of the
slight difference in the water quality (I tried to match the water quality of
the LFS as best as I could). The salinity they were kept in was about .004;
I gradually raised it to .007 within a few days. After a few weeks their
color turned brighter and they have come to know and "tolerate" me. Except
for one of the puffers, he never ate food off my hand and would only eat the
food when I dropped it. His odd behavior with the glass did not change till
now, though no discoloration or irregular swimming has occurred. I have
checked your site and others and have come to the conclusion that the 2 puffs
that like me are t. fluviatilis, though the glass eating one is a t.
nigroviridis. The nigroviridis has a much rounder face and mouth compared to
the other 2, and the coloration on the other 2 puffs is much darker brown
than the t. nigroviridis. I went to the LFS to check where these 3 puffs
originally came from but he didn't know. 
<Not surprising. These Puffers are wild-caught, and frequently mixed species... and as you know, not easily told apart>
I was hopping I would be wrong so I
was wondering if this can happen? Can LFS' retrieve two different breeds of puffs? 
<Yes... you ought to see some of the "miscellaneous" mixes of Corydoras, small Tetras I've helped put away (from import) years back... hard to tell what was intended to be in which box/bag!>
I really don't want to return any of them, nor do I want the
nigroviridis to remain in an environment he cannot tolerate for long. Can I
keep them in freshwater with a little salt or keep them in a salinity of
about .003 - .004? Please help Thank You
<I would keep your spg at near 1.005 here. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Did Puffy Huff or Puff? <Happens with freshwater, brackish tetraodonts as well...>
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels>
We have a spiny box puffer fish. He is pretty small still and we had him about a month. He has been fine and eating fine but we have noticed that he is swimming weird lately. He seems to struggle to swim and swims at an angle with his tail fins upward. He can dive to the bottom of the tank but it looks like he is struggling. Does this mean that he has swallowed air?
<possible but uncommon once established... usually occurs after netting out of water when sold/moved>
Since this swimming problem has started he does not seem to eat anymore either. We also have some larger fish that are bothering him. The fish who are the villains are a Sailfin tang, blue tang and a Heniochus. What can we do to help puffy?
<needs quarantine immediately. Ultimately may never work with current tank mates, but suffer and die if forced to do so>
If it is air, how exactly do we help him release it without getting bit or hurting him?
<gently net underwater with a soft nylon cloth net (not coarse green fabric). Securely grab the fish through the net and orient the fish tail-down/ mouth- upward. The struggle to get free will often massage a burp of air out if it exists. You should only need 5-10 seconds to complete if it will work at all. Quite frankly, it may not be air at all and the symptoms are general. Stressed by harassment from other fish, it could have a pathogenic infection... that is why quarantine for isolation, treatment and observation is critical to save its life> 
Thanks for any help with our little guy.
<please write back with a success story! Anthony>