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FAQs on Chelmon Butterflyfishes Parasitic Disease  

FAQs on Chelmon Disease: Chelmon Disease 1, Chelmon Disease 2, Chelmon Disease 3, Chelmon Disease 4,
FAQs on Chelmon Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Trauma, Infectious, Social, Treatments
FAQs on Butterflyfish Disease:
Butterflyfish Disease 1,
Butterflyfish Disease 2, Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt,
FAQs on Butterflyfish Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Infectious, Parasitic, Treatments

Related Articles: Chelmon ButterflyfishesFoods/Feeding/Nutrition

Related FAQs: Chelmon Butterflies 1, Chelmon Butterflies 2, Chelmon Identification, Chelmon Behavior, Chelmon Compatibility, Chelmon Selection, Chelmon Systems, Chelmon Feeding, Foods/Feeding/Nutrition, Using Chelmons as Aiptasia Controls, Butterflyfish Identification, Butterflyfish Foods/Feeding/NutritionButterflyfish Compatibility, Butterflyfish Behavior, Butterflyfish Systems, Butterflyfish Selection, Butterflyfish Disease, Butterflyfish Reproduction,

 


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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Current wisdom for treatment of Copperband with Crypt? 10/5/12
Hello all,
<Paul>
I have poured through the available resources on your site looking to find the current recommended treatment for Crypt with a Copperband Butterfly. I could not find a definitive answer, so I am asking here.
<Fine>
I took delivery of the Copperband, a Kole tang and a Firefish one week ago yesterday. They were all placed into a 20 gallon QT tank with subdued lighting, PVC pieces for comfort, heater and sponge filter. After two days, the Copperband readily accepted frozen Mysis. The Kole and Firefish eat this as well, and I supplement their diets with other items (which the Copperband doesn't touch, but since it is on Mysis in the QT, I don't believe it is anything to worried about).
<Not yet... but would wean onto something more fully nutritious... my choice NLS Spectrum pellets (small size)>
This morning, I noticed the Copperband has a few small white spots, like salt crystals, on the front fins and rear fin. Looking at photos of crypt,
it looks identical. It doesn't look like lymphocites (sp?) <Lymphocystis> to me.
What would the recommended treatment be, considering I also have a tang and Firefish in the same tank (and should treat them as well since they have been exposed, according to your site)?
<Mmm, yes... either a quinine compound (CP) or copper-based med...>
If the recommendation is quinine based, is there a second recommendation (it will take me some time to procure the quinine, and I would rather start treatment now if at all possible rather than wait for shipping to arrive, especially with the weekend coming up)?
<Freshwater dips might "get you by" in the meanwhile... knocking off surface parasites, along with some vacuuming of the bottom to remove encysted intermediate forms>
If hyposalinity is called for, I have done it successfully in the past with a purple tang. I have an accurate hydrometer and have an RO/DI filter at home ready to go.
<Am not a fan of hypo... as stated on WWM under my name/responses>
In the meantime, I have raised the temp to 80* since it appears to be a recommendation for all possible crypt treatments to raise the temperature.
Thank you for your assistance.
Paul
<Welcome. Bob Fenner
Re: Current wisdom for treatment of Copperband with Crypt?    10/12/12

To the esteemed Mr. Fenner (never a bad idea to compliment those you are imposing on!),
<I guess>
Following up on my suspected crypt infection on the Copperband butterfly:
I opted for CopperSafe from Mardel.  I did find copper test kit.  I administered the recommended amount of copper.  6 days ago.  I did a partial (4 gallon) water change two days ago, and added in the appropriate amount of copper back with the fill water.  Copper test kit verifies.
But the white spots are still there, and there are a couple march large white 'blotches' on the fins.  Looking at photos of Lymphocystis, it looks like a strong possibility (especially since the copper didn't knock anything noticeable off the fins).  The larger spots are much, much larger than the smaller salt like spots - probably 2-3mm.
<Mmm, not Crypt, not Protozoan>
The Copperband continues to eat Mysis with gusto (as well as live brine, but they lack any significant nutritional assistance unless they are gut loaded, which is kind of hard to do), but isn't paying much attention to scallop, clam, spectrum pellets or Spirulina.  I have tried to soak the Mysis in garlic and feed the same time as the spectrum A pellets to get it to move over to the pellets, but so far, it isn't budging.  But I digress...
<Shades of J. Alfred Prufrock>
So should I continue to keep in copper,
<I wouldn't>
or begin to dilute out (or use chemical stripper) the copper.  I also have a Kole tang in there (since it was in the QT with the butterfly, and suspected exposure dictated all fish in that QT go through treatment).  I don't want the Kole in the copper much more than 10-14 days.
Kind of confused now....do I continue copper?  Discontinue?  Put Kole in display?  Put Copperband in display?  Medicate with something else?
Medicated food?
<... I'd discontinue the Cu... move all through a dip/bath... Try purposeful cleaner/s in the main/display, perhaps the medicated food route>
As always, much thanks and appreciation.
Paul B.
<Welcome. BobF>

butterfly / Praziquantel and Metronidazole usage.    5/14/12
Gentlemen,
<And some of the tender gender Eric.>
I recently introduced a copper-band butterfly fish in my quarantine. After two days of eating well I  decided to start medicated her for internal parasites. The only med with Praziquantel that I found available was combined with Metronidazole. 37.5 mgs of Prazi and 135 mgrs of Metro.
<A good combo. for such application>
The recommended dosage that I new was safe is 100-150  mgs/40 lts  of Prazi and some 125 mgs /40 lts of Metro.
Both meds in the web mention that there little chance of overdose.
<Little?...>
I medicated my quarantine with 60 mgrs of Prazi and 250 mgrs of Metro simultaneously. I now realize that the Metro was twice as high as I should have dose the Quarantine water.
After 12 hours of treatment the fish was heavily breathing and gasping for air. I then did a 100 % water change but the fish did not improve. Until today the fish lies down heavily breathing. Its been 24 hrs now. She is stable but not improving as I would hope. Can you please comment on my dosage. Is it a bad idea to medicate both Prazi & Metro simultaneously?
<That stated as "safe" s/b fine>
What would be your recommend sequence medication and dosage for the two treatments.
<Likely just the one dose... three day, week's exposure. Better by far to get these compounds inside the fish/es (via foods). See WWM re>
As per the info I have described is the reaction normal or her condition ( recent capture )  could  of caused a liver damage or 'overload' ?
<Mmm, yes>
 and at last in your opinion is there hope?
<Always>
Thanks in advance.
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Copperband butterfly - Ich?  10/8/10
Hello,
<Hi Steve, Misty here>
I was hoping to ask you all a couple questions about a new 2.5" Copperband butterfly (Chelmon rostratus). I bought it from a respectable LFS about 4 weeks ago, and asked to see it eat before I took it. It was eating well on frozen brine and Mysis. Once home, it was placed in a 20gal QT (bare bottom, one piece of LR, water was from DT) and was eating frozen just fine. I saw no signs of disease, and did not feel there was a need to medicate or dip this fish (which I now regret). I was worried about stressing it out, since I read it is a sensitive and finicky butterfly. 3 weeks in QT (should have been 4) and I moved it over to my DT.
<Good job on the QT>
My system: 90gal with 20gal sump, 130lbs LR, 120lbs LS, system has been up for 1 year. I see tons of amphipods running around the rock at night, I assume I have ample copepods as well. Water parameters look good - nitrates, nitrites, phosphates, and ammonia are all 0; pH is 8.2; dKH is 8; I am using the API reefmaster and saltwater test kits, and I also took a water sample to the LFS who got the same results.
Current residents include: 2.5" purple tang, 5" lawnmower blenny, 3" orange ocellaris clown, 2" black ocellaris clown, and 3" royal gramma.
I have 1 cleaner shrimp and 4 peppermint shrimp, blue leg hermits, 6 huge Nassarius snails, and a few leftover turbo snails that haven't been captured by the hermits. As far as coral, I have a handful of
small frags (Pocillopora, Duncanopsamia, Montipora capricornis and Montipora digitata, various Zoanthus colonies, Euphyllia parancora and Euphyllia paradivisa) and 2 larger Turbinaria "pagoda cups". I also have a new 2.5" blue maxima clam (that was purchased at the same time and place as the butterfly). I hope this is an appropriately thorough description of my setup.
Now for the problem...
I moved the Copperband and, as expected, the purple tang was quite aggressive. Within a few hours, it was getting better; today, after 5 days, they seem fine. Upon moving him, the butterfly stopped eating frozen foods and began grazing my amphipod population
<seems normal...would you rather have steak or frozen steak?>.
He also would do this funny "twitch" every once in awhile (but no flashing... yet).
Last night, I supplemented my feeding with garlic, and all my fish (including the Copperband) were frantically feeding on the Mysis and brine (soaked in Selcon). I thought this was a great sign!
<Yes, it is a good sign>
However, I noticed the Copperband was flashing during this time, and I've discovered about 4-5 white spots on one pectoral fin (looks like Ich).
<Likely...not unexpected, even after the QT period. Moving into a new space with fish (esp. a mean purple tang) is stressful.>
I'm assuming he has a parasitic infection for sure. My dilemma is this: he may be difficult to catch with all of the live rock, and I'm afraid I may stress him worse by removing him and putting him back in a QT <Agreed...as long as he continues eating and the torture from the purple tang subsides, I'd let him ride this out...assuming that the Ich spots don't become absurd>.
Also, I might add that my 20g QT was dropped while being dumped outside and broke into a million pieces... my only remaining empty tank is a 10 gallon. He's not breathing heavy, and I don't notice any
other abnormal behavior besides the flashing/twitching. I'm not sure what to do: catch him, dip/medicate and QT again and risk stressing him worse (this would be the second move in 5 days); or leave him in
the tank and hope that feeding garlic and limiting stress as much as possible may solve the problem. <Yep...have had a couple of CBB's that have gone through this as well...and have been fine. Had you not QT'd to start, would be more of an issue. Your cleaner shrimp may come into play to help as well. I had one CBB with the same issues that kept going to my peppermint shrimp for a cleaning, which didn't work. Got him a cleaner shrimp and it was great.> I will also add that he only flashes on one rock that has green hair algae on it (must be soft?) and the sand bed - so he doesn't have any open wounds that I have seen. I've also noticed that when he does flash, he always goes back to the same place to pick at the rock or sand for "critters"... smart and beautiful fish. (Wonderful fish once acclimated. But they will decimate the live critters (worms, feather dusters, pods, etc.) before resorting to your paltry frozen food :)>. I want to do everything I can to help him out!
All other fish seem unaffected at this time.
After reading some more articles on WWM, I'm also concerned about flatworms
<hmmm...different issue...not a species that I've heard to be "internal">.
Do you think the Ich is probably the primary problem, or could he have a "super infestation" with flatworms as well (because of the twitching)? <not sure about the twitching...keep an eye on it...I know
about the other stuff...but twitching is new!>
Thank you for any help possible, I really appreciate your time!
<Please keep us updated with any changes!>
<Cheers, Misty>
Steve
Re: Copperband butterfly - Ich?  10/8/10
Misty,<Steve,>
Thank you for your reply! <You're welcome :)> As I was reading, I realized that I said "flatworms" and actually meant "flukes". I've never had a fish with flukes <me neither, actually...been lucky, I guess!> and not really sure what to look for with it. <As I've got no experience with them first-hand, me neither, unfortunately> As I was reading about flukes, there was a comment about Acropora-eating-flatworms that
caught my attention and I'm afraid I mistyped! Do you think the twitching could be indicative of a possible fluke infestation? <Not sure, but according to this article, more common symptoms are rapid breathing,
hiding and discoloration... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm >. He seemed to twitch and flash less this evening, but has gained a spot or two on the same pectoral fin (and the fin is now split in one spot).
Still no spots anywhere else that I can see, and he ate frozen Mysis again today.
<A very good sign...I'd keep a close eye on him. Continue the use of garlic/Selcon to help his immune system (as well as the other tank inhabitants until the spots are gone). Ich will always be in your system unless you allow it to go fallow for long enough to starve the Ich.
So it would do you no good to QT him again for a couple of spots and then put him back into a tank with Ich. Obviously, if he can't develop a natural resistance to the parasite and gets worse, then you will need to
remove him for treatment...and think about getting a big QT for all of the fish to allow the tank to go fallow. In my experience with a couple of butterflies, they have developed their own natural resistance and were fine after about a week.>
Thanks again for your help!
<You're welcome, again...hope the CBB does well...I'm sure he will under your care.>
<Cheers, Misty>
Steve

Copperband Ich or Lymph...? Using WWM   10/22/08 This is my third time sending a question over to you guys, and I want to start by thanking you for the great advice. I have been searching for a Copperband for 2-months trying to find a good specimen that is eating and is not too big. I finally found an average sized specimen that was eating at the LFS, however, it has some issues on in its pectoral and caudal fins. <I see these> I have been wasting so much gas driving around looking for a good specimen I decided to buy it anyway and treat it in my QT. Please take a look at the pictures I attached. It looks like white "stuff" and "spots" in the fins. I think it is Ich but I have also read that Copperbands are prone to something else called lymphocytes sp?? <Lymphocystis... gone over on WWM> I have used hyposalinity in the past to cure tangs of Ich with good success. However, I don't know if that would be good for the Copperband because that is a lot of time in QT (at least 6-weeks) Is there a better way of treating Copperbands that you recommend? <Also posted> I have also read that copper is tough on them, what about Cupramine copper or maybe formalin? I am open to any suggestions. Please let me know what brand you recommend as well. Thank you, Sorry the pictures are not that great, it was the best I could get. <Please learn to/use the search tool, indices on WWM... start reading here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm This to me does not look viral... perhaps not Protozoan either... could be "just" environmental... I would read re Lymph, Crypt, Chelmon Health... Bob Fenner>

Re: Copperband Ich or Lymph...? Likely Crypt  10/22/08 Mr. Fenner, I read pages of great info on WWM and I think formalin was the recommended treatment of choice for Ich on a Chelmon. <Mmm... I would skip ahead to later, greater technology here... and quickly read, try to acquire Chloroquine Phosphate... Perhaps a dip/bath now in diluted formalin, aerated pH-adjusted freshwater and thence to quarantine/treatment further...> In one word please, on a Chelmon would you personally use formalin/bath, formalin/dips, Cupramine or hypo. I just want to be sure because my Copperband does now look like its fins were sprinkled with salt. Just looking for a little reassurance, thanks so much for your time. <Sorry to not be able to direct you to a complete set of ideas, methods re Chelmon, Crypt, Quinine cpd. use... But do read re the search tools on your computer, WWM. BobF>

re: Copperband Ich or Lymph...? 10/23/08 Thank you. I did the dip last night and it did get some of the white spots off, and he seemed to feel a little better. However, the Copperband is still covered with Ich. I found the Quinine you mentioned online, but I don't think it is going to get here in time. This morning the fish is laying on its side breathing hard. He gets up and swims around for a little then goes back down. Not good. <Agreed. Very bad> Question, although I had a strong cycle in my QT I must have lost some of the beneficial bacteria while I was shopping for a Chelmon that eats, because I was getting a little ammonia spike despite the fact I was "feeding the empty tank." <Happens> So, if my Chelmon does die, Can I put a piece of cocktail shrimp in the tank and leave it be for a month (testing water of course) to get another hard cycle and also kill of the Ich that is in my QT? <Better to just add a "pinch" of dried food every few days...> Or is there some small chance the Ich can host the cocktail shrimp <No> and live longer than 4-6 weeks? <Yes> Thanks again! <Welcome. B>

Spot on Copperband ID Help?  4/7/08 Hello I have searched the WWM site and still cannot find what I am looking for. I have a Copperband Butterfly that has something attached to it's fins. I included a picture to see if you could tell me what it might be and how to treat it. Thanks. Brian <Mmm, I strongly err on the side of caution here... and say these are not likely pathogenic, but some sort of residual tissue from some type of damage. If anything I might try adding a purposeful cleaner here (Likely a genus Lysmata shrimp)... and leave these to it. Bob Fenner>

Unknown Fish Disease? Chelmon spots   11/12/07 Hello there, Love the site it saved my sick sand sifting star fish (he's now in a MUCH MUCH bigger home) not to mention research here prevented me from buying a horse shoe crab my LFS was trying to push on me. Hopefully you can help me with my most recent problem for starters I'll run my tank info at ya. 50 Gallon Tank about 4 months running Remora C Protein hang on Skimmer 2 Hydor Koralia Pumps #3 850gph each 1.5" Dolomite bottom <Mmm, do replace this in time> 2" live sand bed on top of the dolomite would this be considered a plenum of sorts? <Of a sorts... but do you have the defined "gap" water space alone underneath?> probably 40 or 50 lbs of live rock good coralline coverage on pumps and back wall Water parameters: last tested 10/26 at LFS <I'd get your own kits... water chemistry changes with movement, time...> Ph 8.1 Ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10 (was told this might be due to a 350 magnum canister filter that I have removed from the system) KH 9 Calcium 450 Salinity 1.023 Live Stock: 10 Blue leg hermit Crabs 6 Red Leg hermit crabs 3 zebra striped Astrea snails 1 turbo snail 1 gold ring cowry 1 queen fighting conch 1 Pencil Urchin 1 Cleaner Shrimp 1 long tentacle Anemone 1 anemone crab 2 emerald crabs 1 brittle starfish brown How's the cleaning crew look? light heavy? <A mix... I'd keep your eye on the Mithraculus> 1" colony of star polyps 1" colony of Zoanthids 1" Florida Ricordea Fish: 1 green mandarin (he eats live brine, frozen Mysis, and chilled Arctipods along with the live pods on my LR) My current worry is my only other fish a Copper band butterfly <Hard to keep in small tanks like this> he has 3 black spots on the very edge of his pectoral fin and one black spot on the farthest back edge of his dorsal fin I've searched your site for black spots but all I can find is black Ich these spots are about the size of #2 pencil lead seemingly MUCH larger than the pictures of black Ich I've found they haven't spread or moved but just hold on. He hasn't shown any signs of rubbing against anything or discomfort he's still eating an lot of Mysis shrimp he never ignores it so I just feed him a few minutes worth and leave it at that. <I would... do nothing overt here... The spots could be "just coloring"... melanism from?...> He won't stay still long enough for my cleaner to go near him I don't think it's a lazy cleaner because it loves to pick at my fingers. I'm nervous that these black spots have the potential to spread to my mandarin I haven't set up a QT tank yet Any ideas what these might be? Please help <Not likely at all to be a spreading problem> I'm also considering in the future a black false percula clown and a flame angel I don't want to overload the system though does it sound ok to you? Thanks, Very nervous <Don't be... Do start planning re where you're going to put the new, larger system... You've got the bug, not the Chelmon. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: Unknown Fish Disease? Chelmon spots    11/14/07 Hello again! I didn't properly proof read my E-mail and there was a miscommunication here on the Copper band spots. I'm terribly sorry... They aren't really spots but have the size of small black ants attached to the fins. <I see them...> 3 on the pectoral and one on the tip of the dorsal I've enclosed two pictures hopefully they're high enough quality and yet small enough to meet your standards. <Yes... good images... Don't appear to be "organismal"...> here are some interesting bits of info that might or might not help. The fish seems to have a very minor case of Ich on the fins that do not have these black things on them but no sign of white spots on the pectoral that has them. I can't seem to get a closer shot then the one I'm sending you and they have shown no signs of movement it might be my imagination but it seems like one has actually "fragged itself" with 3 tiny spots next to it that I did not notice before but I might be more paranoid now than before. Please help, Sincerely Confused <Again... I do think these are random bits of melanization... perhaps this specimen was physically whacked, as with a net... even dropped to the ground at some time. They could be from an accidental run-in with the Zoanthids. I would leave it as is... not subject the specimen to medication, moving... the marks will likely fade over a long period of time... though a purposeful cleaner might well remove them post haste... Maybe a Lysmata species. Oh! I see you list a cleaner shrimp below. Hopefully these will partner. Bob Fenner>

Ich, Copperband Butterfly 6/27/07 Hi crew! <Hello> Quick question.. I searched and maybe there is no answer to this but I'm asking anyway. I have a Copperband butterfly fish in QT (6 days now). It has Ich and I have been treating with Rid Ich+(4 days now). <Toxic stuff, not one of my choices for treatment.> She (assuming) eats like a pig, swims great, but her gills seem to be pumping harder than they should. <Probably a combination of the Ich's effects on the gills and lower O2 levels caused by the medications.> I know this is due to the parasite. I did a freshwater dip with Methylene blue last night for 9 minutes for external parasites...she was fine. <Good> Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable or to make her gills not have to work so hard?. or do I have to wait for this parasite to get out of her gills? <Increasing circulation will help.> I know this may sound like a stupid question. <Is not> But I've read on WWM on Copperband Butterflyfish being fragile and she is a fighter. I don't want to lose her...she already eats from my hand. Thanks! Jen <Good luck> <Chris>
Re: Ich, Copperband Butterfly 6/27/07
Thanks Chris for the quick response! <Sure> Rid Ich was not my first choice either but from everything I read on WWM they are extremely sensitive to copper and I have never had any luck with hypo. <True, I probably would have gone with straight Formalin, instead of the Formalin/malachite green in Rid Ich+, a little less toxic.> I had sent quite a few emails to WWM concerning the best course of treatment but couldn't get a definitive answer. I know there are not a lot of absolutes in this hobby, especially when it comes to this nasty parasite. <Lots of different ideas out there, best bet is to stick with the basics.> I do have a filter rated for a 40 gal on the QT so the water is circulated quite well, should I add an air pump to this as well for aeration? <Could, but probably unnecessary.> When would it be safe to do another dip? <Have to go on your judgment there, if it seems strong enough go for it.> Thanks! <Welcome> <Chris>

Copperband issue?   12/21/06 Hi crew, <Good evening!  Mich with you tonight.>      I bought a Copperband (for Aiptasia) a month ago.  He went straight into quarantine, of course.   <Good to hear.> He's been eating very well, almost entirely bloodworms.  Very healthy. Last Thursday (six days ago) we lost power during the storm that hit the Northwest.  We got power back about 18 hours later but the temperature did drop in the tank.  I've been monitoring him closely.   <Wise.> He's full of energy and still eating but he has a single, dull whitish spot on his tail fin.  It doesn't look like Ich.  It has not grown in the past five days and I can't see any other spots however today, he did start scratching against some live rock I've got in QT with him. <Watch and wait.>      Since the spot hasn't grown, I was planning to move him into the display this weekend but the scratching has me scared. <Listen to your gut.  I would extend the time in QT.  If there is a problem, it will be much easier to address and less stressful on the fish if he remains in the QT tank.  I think moving the fish to your main system would be a mistake.  The end goal of QT is to move a healthy fish into a healthy system.  If you move to this fish now, you put the your display in jeopardy.>       Any advice would be great! <Hope that helps.  Mich>

BF spot, Dottyback color loss, Centropyge feeding in QT   7/12/06 Thanks for your prompt reply, <Please include prev. corr...> I have done as you said and given my Copperband with a freshwater dip mixed with M/Green. He has a parasite attached to his front left fin, I hope it will come off after a few more dips. But he is looking much better after the first dip, the itch has receded significantly. And he's eating well as usual. <Mmm, a parasite? Might just be a "spot" from bumping into something... I'd try a purposeful cleaner organism... perhaps a Lysmata sp. shrimp... Gobiosoma goby...> Now onto my Dottyback. He has lost a lot of colour, when I got him he was a bright magenta and yellow, now he's faded to a dull purple and yellow. I have been told this is due to him not being the dominant fish in the aquarium, as the Anthias don't seem to like him too much and chase him sometimes. <Possibly a/the factor here> I feed him Mysid shrimp, brine, algae flakes, angel fish mix, ocean plankton, pretty much whatever I can get my hands on, and he is still showing no signs of his original colour. Any suggestions? <Spectrum pelleted food/s> My final question is about my eibli angel, which is refusing to eat Mysid shrimp, marine algae, brine shrimp and flakes. He is in my QT tank atm, and I'm worried that he hasn't eaten for 2 days. I am not treating the tank with any medication so I am thinking of buying a small piece of live rock for him to nibble on. Would you suggest Nori too? <Do add a good deal of ready-cured live rock with obvious algal growth> I'll just like to add that you guys provide a valuable service and your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Albany <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

White spot or ick on my Copperbanded butterfly Hello, <<And hello to you. JasonC here...>> I was needing to get information on treating what seems to be marine ick on my Copperbanded butterfly. It is on one side fin and the tail. <<Are these fins well salted or just a few spots? If not more than I few spots I probably wouldn't be concerned, I would just keep up the observation.>> No other fish is infected. I have coral and invertebrate in my tank. <<Do you have a cleaner shrimp or neon goby?>> Is there something that I can use that won't hurt my coral and inverts? What do you suggest! Daniel <<Well, in all but the most extreme cases, I try to leave the medications in the bottle and instead either let nature take its course or add more nature, meaning biological cleaners. Problem parasites like Ich and the like are present in tank water almost 100% of the time, and usually a healthy fish can deal with a parasite or two... it's when parasite numbers grow to epidemic proportions that things get weird. Cleaner shrimp and neon gobies can help keep these parasites in check. Here's some reading for you: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/shrimp/cleaner.htm  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/neongobies.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm Cheers, J -- >>
Re: white spot or ick on my Copperbanded butterfly
Hello Jason, <<And hello to you, Sir.>> The Butterfly has only about 2-3 spots on fin and 2-3 spots on tail. I have 2 cleaner shrimp, but no goby.  Thanks, Daniel <<Sounds good to me, I wouldn't worry much about those spots. Do keep the fish under observation, look for scratching behaviors, to make sure things aren't growing out of proportion. No worries yet. Cheers, J -- >>

New Copperband BF with Ich 3/29/04  I woke up this morning and see that my Copperband is starting to get s few spots of ICK. As mentioned before, it's in a 10g QT by itself w/LR/LS. Should I give it a fresh water dip?  <I do believe this will be very helpful. 3 minutes bare minimum to be effective... towards 5 minutes at least ideally. Do be sure to adjust the temperature and pH of the FW dip water very accurately to match the tank water. Aerate this bath several hours in advance too>  Should I medicate the dip?  <Formalin would be fine, but any of the organic dyes (Meth blue, Mal green, etc) or Copper/metals may take their toll on this sensitive fish>  Should I just treat the entire tank?  <if it is bare bottomed (glass) QT, then this may be an option.>  If you recommend medication, what should I use?  <Formalin and FW dips gets my vote. Daily or nearly so for the next week>  I'm giving this fish my all - I don't know who's stressed more - me or the fish (fish I'm sure). Thanks again, Dennis Nolan  <best of luck. Anthony>

Marine Roulette Anyone? We all know how awesome the WWM crew is - and so do they - that's why we all come back here! <They told me there was free beer! You mean there isn't? I'm outta here!> Enough said. What's odd is that so many of us have learned what we know of the marine hobby right here and by reading the works of WWM authors - yet so many of us insist on learning the hard way.... <Heeeeee! Human nature... my fave species> For example, I have an overstocked 75 gal mixed reef and have never quarantined so much as one thing... The system has been up and running for over a year and I've watched the dreaded white spot signs of Ich teeter-totter between the fish's favor and the parasites favor. Had never had a serious enough outbreak to warrant pulling all of the fish out for treatment or letting the tank go fallow.... 'til now.... <Doh!> Hadn't seen any signs of Ich for close to six-months, so in my infinite wisdom what do I do? Add a "King-O-Ich" Hippo Tang. Well the pendulum quickly favored the Ich and I end up with a major breakout. Fortunately I had a 55 gal. sitting around looking thirsty so I tear the rockwork apart and catch the fish.... Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Royal Gramma, Two Ocellaris Clowns, Copperband Butterfly, and a Flame Hawkfish. They're being treated with Cupramine and for all those who've had trouble measuring this, the Seachem kit seems to keep a good handle on the copper levels.  <They do have good products>  Did I keep a sponge in the 75gal display to use in case of an treatment emergency such as this? Of course not.... <Doh times two~!> So I'm changing significant amounts of water every other day to keep ammonia as low as possible. Livestock seem to be progressively doing better - but I'm concerned about the Copperband. He hasn't hardly eaten any provided foods since we got him. He seemed to pick off the rocks rather than touch anything we fed... Problem is - their obviously aren't any rocks in the hospital tank - and I've yet to see him eat a thing. <Try a small "bivalve"... clam, cockle... opened up... these are almost irresistible to Chelmons... even stressed out ones in tiny volumes and copper> It's been 8 days since he was admitted to the hospital. Before this Ich outbreak began, we had already been planning on a move into a 180, which is about another month out. We had purchased 40 lbs of additional live rock, which is curing in Rubbermaids. My question is this. ( I know - Finally) The new live rock in quarantine will be cured about the time that the copper treatment comes to an end, and hopefully the hospital tank has completely cycled. Yet I will still be weeks from moving into the 180 - so the fish will remain in the hospital tank until the move. The only thing in the hospital is PVC material (nothing Calcareous). <Natch... as it would absorb the copper...> For the betterment of the environment, can I add cycled live rock to the cycled hospital once the copper is removed with water changes, PolyFilter, and carbon? <Yes> Or should I not add anything copper sensitive since the tank has been exposed to copper. <A small amount of precipitated copper is not a big deal> I had read somewhere (don't know the validity) that the tank seals will act like a sponge and leach copper even after it is testing zero and believed removed.  <Very, very little... in most cases/scenarios> Obviously, the best thing would be to not get into this situation, but.... In light of the fact I am, what would be the best way to proceed? And yes, lesson learned... From now on apply the generous sharings of knowledge from those in the know.... Thanks, Brad. <Better to move the Copperband elsewhere after two weeks treatment... with larger, more stable setting... try Mysids (live if you can get them)... soaked in Selcon or equivalent... Do pH adjusted freshwater dip the fishes enroute... Bob Fenner> 
Marine Roulette Anyone? avec James' Response
We all know how awesome the WWM crew is - and so do they - that's why we all come back here! Enough said. What's odd is that so many of us have learned what we know of the marine hobby right here and by reading the works of WWM authors - yet so many of us insist on learning the hard way.... For example, I have an overstocked 75 gal mixed reef and have never quarantined so much as one thing.  The system has been up and running for over a year and I've watched the dreaded white spot signs of Ich teeter-totter between the fish's favor and the parasites favor. Had never had a serious enough outbreak to warrant pulling all of the fish out for treatment or letting the tank go fallow 'til now.  Hadn't seen any signs of Ich for close to six-months, so in my infinite wisdom what do I do? Add a "King-O-Ich" Hippo Tang. Well the pendulum quickly favored the Ich and I end up with a major breakout. Fortunately I had a 55gal sitting around looking thirsty so I tear the rockwork apart and catch the fish.... Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Royal Gramma, Two Ocellaris Clowns, Copperband Butterfly, and a Flame Hawkfish.  They're being treated with Cupramine and for all those who've had trouble measuring this, the Seachem kit seems to keep a good handle on the copper levels. Did I keep a sponge in the 75gal display to use in case of an treatment emergency such as this? Of course not. So I'm changing significant amounts of water every other day to keep ammonia as low as possible.  Livestock seem to be progressively doing better - but I'm concerned about the Copperband. He hasn't hardly eaten any provided foods since we got him. He seemed to pick off the rocks rather than touch anything we fed. Problem is - there obviously aren't any rocks in the hospital tank - and I've yet to see him eat a thing. It's been 8 days since he was admitted to the hospital.  Before this Ich outbreak began, we had already been planning on a move into a 180, which is about another month out. We had purchased 40 lbs of additional live rock, which is curing in Rubbermaids. My question is this. ( I know - Finally) The new live rock in quarantine will be cured about the time that the copper treatment comes to an end, and hopefully the hospital tank has completely cycled. Yet I will still be weeks from moving into the 180 - so the fish will remain in the hospital tank until the move. The only thing in the hospital is PVC material (nothing Calcareous).  For the betterment of the environment, can I add cycled live rock to the cycled hospital once the copper is removed with water changes, PolyFilter, and carbon? Or should I not add anything copper sensitive since the tank has been exposed to copper.  I had read somewhere (don't know the validity) that the tank seals will act like a sponge and leach copper even after it is testing zero and believed removed. Obviously, the best thing would be to not get into this situation, but.... In light of the fact I am, what would be the best way to proceed? And yes, lesson learned... From now on apply the generous sharings of knowledge from those in the know.... <I don't think you would have a problem putting the live rock in the QT once you filter out the copper. I would try one thing for your Copperband. Get some Cyclop-eeze in the pump bottle. I'm thinking that will trigger him into eating. It's great stuff. Good for corals....my Percs love it and really colored up nice. James (Salty Dog)>


Butterflyfishes for  Marine Aquariums
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