Ich, Copperband Butterfly 6/27/07
Hi crew!
<Hello>
Quick question.. I searched and maybe there is no answer to this but I'm asking anyway. I have a copperband butterfly fish in QT (6 days now). It has ich and I have been treating with Rid Ich+(4 days now). <Toxic stuff, not one of my choices for treatment.> She (assuming) eats like a pig, swims great, but her gills seem to be pumping harder than they should. <Probably a combination of the Ich's effects on the gills and lower O2 levels caused by the medications.> I know this is due to the parasite. I did a freshwater dip with methylene blue last night for 9 minutes for external parasites...she was fine. <Good>
Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable or to make her gills not have to work so hard?. or do I have to wait for this parasite to get out of her gills? <Increasing circulation will help.> I know this may sound like a stupid question.
<Is not> But I've read on WWM on copperband butterflyfish being fragile and she is a fighter. I don't want to lose her...she already eats from my hand. Thanks! Jen
<Good luck>
<Chris>

Re: Ich, Copperband Butterfly 6/27/07
Thanks Chris for the quick response! <Sure> Rid Ich was not my first choice either but from everything I read on WWM they are extremely sensitive to copper and I have never had any luck with hypo. <True, I probably would have gone with straight Formalin, instead of the Formalin/malachite green in Rid Ich+, a little less toxic.> I had sent quite a few emails to WWM concerning the best course of treatment but couldn't get a definitive answer. I know there are not a lot of absolutes in this hobby, especially when it comes to this nasty parasite. <Lots of different ideas out there, best bet is to stick with the basics.> I do have a filter rated for a 40 gal on the QT so the water is circulated quite well, should I add an airpump to this as well for aeration? <Could, but probably unnecessary.> When would it be safe to do another dip? <Have to go on your judgment there, if it seems strong enough go for it.>
Thanks!
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Copperband issue?   12/21/06
Hi crew,
<Good evening!  Mich with you tonight.>   
  I bought a copperband (for Aiptasia) a month ago.  He went straight into quarantine, of course.  
<Good to hear.>
He's been eating very well, almost entirely bloodworms.  Very healthy. Last Thursday (six days ago) we lost power during the storm that hit the Northwest.  We got power back about 18 hours later but the temperature did drop in the tank.  I've been monitoring him closely.  
<Wise.>
He's full of energy and still eating but he has a single, dull whitish spot on his tail fin.  It doesn't look like ich.  It has not grown in the past five days and I can't see any other spots however today, he did start scratching against some live rock I've got in QT with him.
<Watch and wait.>   
  Since the spot hasn't grown, I was planning to move him into the display this weekend but the scratching has me scared.
<Listen to your gut.  I would extend the time in QT.  If there is a problem, it will be much easier to address and less stressful on the fish if he remains in the QT tank.  I think moving the fish to your main system would be a mistake.  The end goal of QT is to move a healthy fish into a healthy system.  If you move to this fish now, you put the your display in jeopardy.>    
  Any advice would be great!
<Hope that helps.  Mich>

Copperband/Disease Treatment  7/11/06
I read on your website that Copperbands can be prone to copper medication. <<Prone? RMF>>
<Yes.>
I have a copperband in a QT tank with several other fish. Should I use the same does as indicated on the bottle or should I reduce the dose? I am using
SeaChem activated copper, if this helps.
<No such thing as activated copper.  You are referring to Cupramine, a buffered, active copper. I would isolate the copperband in another tank.  Copperbands are very sensitive to copper treatment.  Freshwater dips and formalin (Rid-Ich+ by Kordon, formalin and malachite green) would be my choice. >
Thank you.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
A

BF spot, Dottyback color loss, Centropyge feeding in QT   7/12/06
Thanks for your prompt reply,
<Please include prev. corr...>
I have done as you said and given my copperband with a freshwater dip mixed with M/Green. He has a parasite attached to his front left fin, I hope it will come off after a few more dips. But he is looking much better after the first dip, the itch has receded significantly. And he's eating well as usual.
<Mmm, a parasite? Might just be a "spot" from bumping into something... I'd try a purposeful cleaner organism... perhaps a Lysmata sp. shrimp... Gobiosoma goby...>
Now onto my Dottyback. He has lost a lot of colour, when I got him he was a bright magenta and yellow, now he's faded to a dull purple and yellow. I have
been told this is due to him not being the dominant fish in the aquarium, as the Anthias don't seem to like him too much and chase him sometimes.
<Possibly a/the factor here>
I feed him Mysid shrimp, brine, algae flakes, angel fish mix, ocean plankton, pretty much whatever I can get my hands on, and he is still showing no signs
of his original colour. Any suggestions?
<Spectrum pelleted food/s>
My final question is about my eibli angel, which is refusing to eat Mysid shrimp, marine algae, brine shrimp and flakes. He is in my QT tank atm, and
I'm worried that he hasn't eaten for 2 days. I am not treating the tank with any medication so I am thinking of buying a small piece of live rock for him
to nibble on. Would you suggest Nori too?
<Do add a good deal of ready-cured live rock with obvious algal growth>
I'll just like to add that you guys provide a valuable service and your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Albany
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Copperband Butterfly acting lethargic  - 2/11/2006
Hello WWM Crew!  First, let me thank you for your site and great information.  I have been reading for the last 2 hours or so (not for the
first time!) but haven't been able to spot the answer I'm looking for.  So if I've overlooked it somewhere please do not think ill of me.
<Mmm, no. And if you have ideas on how to arrange the content here, to make it more readily accessible, assimilable, please do speak up>
I have a 75g tank w/a 30g sump that has been up for about 2.5 months with LR, and fish and inverts for about 6 weeks.  I let the LR cure for two months prior to
putting it into the tank, and it seemed to cycle during that period.  Since setting up the tank, I had my original cycle and my NH3, NO2 and NO3 have
all been staying pretty much at 0.  Ca was low at about 320 ppm but I managed to increase it to 450 over the last 10 days.  I add a small amount
of Iodine (<5 ml) once a week.  Same with Kent essential elements.  I change out about 10 gallons per week with fresh saltwater.  My SG=1.025, Ph=8.2,
KH=11.  I have about 75-80 # LR in the main tank, maybe another 15# in the sump, and am running UV and a protein skimmer.  I run a 1200 gph pump from
the tank through the sump and have a 2nd closed loop system w/a Squid and an 850 Eheim pump. total flow in the tank seems pretty good.  I have one pearly
jawfish, one sailfin blenny, 2 clowns, 1 blue tang, 1 copperband butterfly, 2 Turbos, several Astreas, several Trochus, and about a dozen total hermits
(blue, red and scarlet).  I overfed a bit when starting out and have some algae growth and a little Cyano started in the areas out of the main
current.  I am getting these under control now but still am working on cleaning it up a little.  Last week 2 emeralds died within a day of each
other, and two Turbos mysteriously bit the dust.  All the inverts and fish seem healthy with the exception of the butterfly.  So I guess I have two
questions.  Any idea why the emeralds and snails would have died?
<Mmm, possibly from some sort of "imbalance" from the addition of the supplements... though these should be discounted due to your water changes... or a biological agent/poisoning in situ>
And now for the big question!  My copperband, who I love dearly, went from being perfectly normal and eating well one day, to laying on the bottom, gasping
and not eating the next.
<... am gravitating more to the latter stated cause>
He was eating Mysis and then decided one day he would only eat live brine shrimp.  (I guess even fish love McDonalds, eh?)
<Don't supersize!>
Anyway, I tried a variety of things to get hm back on Mysis but he just wouldn't eat.  Eventually he showed what I was told by my LFS is a
lymphocystis growth on his lower lip.
<Environmental/stress related/direct>
I was told to not worry about it as it would go away on its own in a month or so,
<Yes, good advice>
and it never seemed to bother him eating.  So in an effort to keep him well fed while getting rid of his wart, I kept giving him brine shrimp though I added Zoe and Zoecon vitamins
and a garlic elixir to the shrimp as well as feeding them to gut load then before feeding.  Unfortunately he seems to now be in bad shape - drifting
around the tank, wont eat, and even looks somewhat emaciated even though he ate as recently as last night.  I haven't noticed any cysts on him and his
color is good.  He looks normal with the exception of his laying on the bottom on his side and slight pumping of his gills.  Is it possible for him
to starve to death eating brine shrimp?
<Yes... not uncommon>
Could he have some sort of parasite?
<Yes>
Would a freshwater dip help him?
<Not likely>
Also, it seems that I noticed the tang scratch the LR a couple of times when I first added him to the tank about 3 weeks ago but he is fine now, and he was fine at the LFS for the
week they had him.
<They do this...>
Did I introduce a parasite to my tank with the tang?
<Possibly... am sure you're aware of the benefits of quarantine>
I know - I should have isolated him first but it seemed sort of foolish since I had just bought all the other fish from the same LFS the in the previous
couple of weeks before.  Sorry for the long note but I wanted to make sure you had as much info as I could remember to type!
Thanks in advance - Rob
<Mmm, I would add a unit/pad of Polyfilter in your filter flow path here... allow the calcium concentration to drift down into the upper 300 ppms... and suspend the addition of supplements for a while. Bob Fenner>

Copperband Quarantine ?
Hi Bob,
One of my favorite fish is the Copperband Butterfly. Unfortunately, I lost (killed???) two already. 
<A beauty, but often beat, touchy... easily lost>
The first one was in bad shape when I got him (mercy purchase) and based on your advice I nursed him to health and he was fine and hand-feeding.
....until I added a purple tang who bullied him and eventually the poor thing died...I loved that fish because he managed
to fight back from his ill condition and became a healthy friendly pet in my reef tank.
<Ahh...>
The second one was a small baby about 3" long. He suffered from ich since I did not quarantine him.
After other such losses, I will always quarantine and perform a Methylene blue/fresh water dip before and after the 2-3 week quarantine period.
<A good commitment>
Anyway, I want to get another Copperband but this time I want to do it right and quarantine the fish. However, since Copperbands eat copepods, and since
my quarantine tank does not contain any live rock, will the copperband starve ? I will try to feed it but I just wanted to check with you before purchasing
so that I can avoid another loss. Also, is there anything that Copperbands find irresistible other than copepods that I could feed during quarantine ?
<The food will not immediately die... try temporarily offering such foods with the equally temporary placement of a bit of live rock.>
Thanks again friend,
Chuck Spyropulos
<You are certainly welcome. Kia orana. Bob Fenner>

My Copperband Butterfly
Hi again Bob;
Rick your reefing friend here. I acquired a Copperband about 10 days ago. He is currently residing in my 20 gallon quarantine tank. He is doing extremely
well. He is eating and looks healthy except he has white cotton like growths on his fins. 
<Likely the viral bits termed Lymphocystis... brought on by "stress"... and likely not infectious... would place this fish, use a biological cleaner... the white gunk will "disappear" in time>
I have been treating the tank with Coppersafe to eliminate an ick outbreak on a flame angel acquired at the same time. The ick seems to be
gone but I am worried about the white growths on the Copperband. I read on your site that these growths may be due to excessive copper treatment so I
have completed two 5 gallon water changes in two days. I will complete another water change tomorrow. Can you tell from my layman's description
what this butterfly may have?
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lymphfaqs.htm>
Please help as I have never had much success with this species and actually this is the first Copperband I have ever seen eating. Please help me to save this poor fellow.
<We will do what we can. As stated, I would "just" place this fish. Bob Fenner>
Thank you
Rick Johnston

URGENT URGENT URGENT
Bob, please help! I emailed you about my copperband last week. He seems to be doing fine until tonight. He has been gasping and sticking his mouth out of the water. I just moved him into my reef from quarantine yesterday. He has been floating on his side and breathing heavily for a few minutes now. He has been pushed around by the current so I moved him back to quarantine. Please help. Its a 55 reef with 2 clowns 90 pounds of rock, cleaner shrimp, conchs, Nass. snails. The only reading I can test is that nitrate is at about 6 ppm. I have a large refugium, Turboflotor skimmer and 2 large powerheads for circulation? How can he not be getting enough air? 
<I take it the clowns are acting fine... likely not an anoxia problem... perhaps a loss of external integrity... but from what? A stinging incident, envenomation? You did what I would do by moving the specimen... If it recovers, perhaps we will be better able to assess what the cause of this dying behavior is/was... an internal parasite? Collateral damage from collection, shipping, handling? This can/does show up days to weeks later...>
Please help, I am almost positive that he will be floating when I wake up tomorrow.... The tank has had cured rock for 2 1/2 to 3 months and has had sand for 5 months...
Please help
Andrew
<Yes... a "mysterious" occasion, likely loss... unfortunately not uncommon with marine butterflyfishes in general... and some of the more "sensitive" genera like Chelmon in particular... even from "good" collection areas, collectors (like yours from Fiji)>
Here are my previous mails
<Thanks for supplying these. Bob Fenner>

Re: URGENT URGENT URGENT
Thanx Bob, clowns are acting fine. I am feeling really bad about the fish, could he have been stung by an Aiptasia? 
<Yes, unfortunately>
that's the only sting organism in my tank, I do have a few large ones( 3" plus) Also, could it be that the dark spots on my sandbed could have caused this? 
<Not much likelihood>
The fish is doing full somersaults in my quarantine tank now. The manager of LFS knows exactly who collects his fish and assures me they are very professional divers. What do you recommend to beat this thing? Lowering specific gravity?
<Just a bit... maybe a couple of thousandths... more would be more stress than it's worth>
At 9 tomorrow my LFS opens and I will call the manager first thing as he is a friend and he had this fish for 3 weeks prior to myself buying it. I have also asked
Dr. Ron Shimek as he has a few in his reef tank.
<Once established Chelmon rostrata can do well for years... most die within hours to days of capture though>
thanks again, please tell me there is something I could do, i.e. add a fresh clam:?
Andrew
<No to the clam or any food. Think positively, knowing that you have done your best to help this animal. Bob Fenner>

Re: URGENT URGENT URGENT
thank you so much for helping me and responding so quickly. The only thing I have noticed differently is that now there seems to be a brownish tint to
the butterfly's skin.....?????
<Not good my friend.>
thank you again for helping a hobbyist in a time of need
Andrew
<I am a compassionate person... from the Latin meaning "to bear pain with"... from John/Jack Donne, "If a clod be washed from England's shore..." My thoughts are with you. Bob Fenner>

Re: URGENT URGENT URGENT
thanks, the fish died last night. I woke up to find him not breathing and had lost all color in his eyes. He had little white spots on him like ich
but I did not see these before, could it just be decomposition?
<Yes>
thanks again
Andrew
<Bob Fenner>

White spot or ick on my Copperbanded butterfly
Hello,
<<And hello to you. JasonC here...>>
I was needing to get information on treating what seems to be marine ick on my Copperbanded butterfly. It is on one side fin and the tail. <<Are these fins well salted or just a few spots? If not more than I few spots I probably wouldn't be concerned, I would just keep up the observation.>> No other fish is infected. I have coral and invertebrate in my tank. <<Do you have a cleaner shrimp or neon goby?>> Is there something that I can use that won't hurt my coral and inverts? What do you suggest!
Daniel
<<Well, in all but the most extreme cases, I try to leave the medications in the bottle and instead either let nature take its course or add more nature, meaning biological cleaners. Problem parasites like ich and the like are present in tank water almost 100% of the time, and usually a healthy fish can deal with a parasite or two... it's when parasite numbers grow to epidemic proportions that things get weird. Cleaner shrimp and neon gobies can help keep these parasites in check. Here's some reading for you:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/arthropoda/shrimp/cleaner.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/neongobies.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
Cheers, J -- >>

Re: white spot or ick on my Copperbanded butterfly
Hello Jason, <<And hello to you, Sir.>>
The Butterfly has only about 2-3 spots on fin and 2-3 spots on tail. I have 2 cleaner shrimp, but no goby. 
Thanks,
Daniel
<<Sounds good to me, I wouldn't worry much about those spots. Do keep the fish under observation, look for scratching behaviors, to make sure things aren't growing out of proportion. No worries yet. Cheers, J -- >>

Abrasion?
Dear WWM Crew:
I had the irresistible opportunity to purchase and ostensibly healthy 5" Chelmon rostratus that had been returned to my LFS after well over a year in another customer's tank (he moved). It is a beautiful specimen that eats just about any frozen food.  
I've never handled a fish this big before and had some trouble getting him into my 10G QT. Now I see what appears to be a slightly bloody abrasion on it's left side. (see attached photos).
<I see>
I have been adding Kent Marine Pro-Tech Coat daily since I notice this. Should I treat with an antibiotic? If so, what? Am I mistaking something more ominous for a "simple" abrasion? It continues to behave normally and eat well.
<I would place this fish in your main/display system without much worry. It is very likely pathogen free... and will only suffer from being quarantined much longer. Bob Fenner>
Your input will be highly valued. Thanks, Steve Allen

QT Emergency
I have had a Chelmon rostratus  in QT for 36 hours. Tank is 20G with Whisper 3000 power filter, 200gph power head, heater. Initially, it did stay close to the pvc tee I have in the tank, but would come out and 'cruise' the tank until I came into the room and it saw me. Ammonia, nitrite 0ppm, nitrate <10ppm, SG 1.0243. (honestly the ammonia is a best guess, as I CANNOT read these @#$%!#$ color charts very well. The chart says clear for no ammonia, but the water 'fogs' and it is very hard to see color. I have checked the fresh RO/DI water and it is clear) But the pH this morning is 7.88! (Lights on about 3 hours) The fish is obviously stressed, mouth open, hiding, occasional head spasms (side to side shake).
<Sounds like some kind of osmotic shock or other form of shock. Don't rule out disease or collection traumas as well. Continue to observe him carefully.>
Can I bring the pH back up with water changes, and if so, how fast?
<I'd do some medium sized water changes here-no more than say, 20% at a time. Did the pH drop suddenly, or was this a gradual downward trend? The solution could simply be to change water more often or to make sure that when you feed, nothing goes uneaten.
Unfortunately, in a bare aquarium, buffering can sometimes be a challenge. Yes, there are products to assist in buffering, but you need to test for anything that you add, ok?>
Or, do I need more drastic measures, i.e baking soda? BTW it did eat fairly well the am (The mix from CMA, shrimp clams, Nori, Zoe) Thanks.
<Keep a close eye on the fish and the water chemistry. If any of your readings are amiss, or if the pH fluctuate wildly, you will need to take more drastic measures, such as more massive water changes, etc. Keep on top of things, and your fish should be okay. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Copper Band Butterfly Problem
Thanks Scott!
<My pleasure>
(Did the pH drop suddenly, or was this a gradual downward trend?)
On Friday pm the pH was 8.11 On Saturday am the pH was 8.03 (I wrote this off to overnight swing) The next time I check was right before I wrote you on Sunday am. I have the pH back up to 8.02 before lights out last night. (did about 30% water change) Will follow with more today. The fish appears much more relaxed, cruising, hovering, picking at the substrate. Eating well.
<Good to hear that!>
But, I am still seeing a spasm of some sort on occasion. Sometimes it is the belly fins, sometimes  it is the head shake, sometimes it ripples through the entire body. I assume this is an abnormal behavior? I see no evidence of parasites, and there seems to be no damage that I can view.
<Definitely abnormal...Hard to say- could be anything from an internal parasite to possible poisoning from the collection process...Tough call here>
And I have seen it very well when it comes out. I am planning to offer small amounts of food several times a day, as long as it eats.
<Good idea!>
Since I am off work the next 3 weeks so I will be able to keep a tight eye on it. Don
<That's what I'd do at this point, Don- just keep an eye on him and be ready for intervention if it becomes necessary. Good luck! Scott F.>

Copperband questions
My 60g FOWLR tank has been running extremely well since it was set up 9 months ago (mostly due to all of the excellent information on WWM!) but I have a few quick questions for you: <K, shoot>
1) I currently have a Maroon Clown, Yellow Tail Damsel, Yellow Tang, Coral Banded Shrimp, and various hermits/LR hitchhikers.  I am moving house in the next few weeks and thought that this would be an ideal time to add a Copperband Butterfly.  My idea was to move the three established fish into the QT tank with the Butterfly for a few days (when it is ich free - see Q2) and then re-introduce them all into the main tank at the same time when it
was up and running in the new house. <Sounds kind of risky, you may crash the QT in the process...> What do you think my chances are that the Tang will get along with the butterfly?  (They are both about 4") <Depends on how large the QT is, if it's small then the tang will fight for sure. Keep in mind both the copperband and your yellow tang will get large and will have to be relocated to a bigger home.>
2) The butterfly has been in my quarantine tank for the past two weeks but I am struggling to get rid of a few small ich spots (I think) that keep re-appearing on the fins.  I have lowered the spg and increased the temp but am having no luck so far. <Hyposalinity is only effective at around a SG of 1.009.> I'm not a big fan of copper as the only death that I've had in the last nine months was an angel that was being treated. Are butterfly's just as sensitive to copper? <Not in my experience.> Should I try FW dips or one of the copper-free treatments? <Try some formalin and a freshwater dip or two, check out the dipping FAQ's first>
3) I recently tried to get hold of some Mysis shrimp at my LFS but they didn't have any in stock.  I brought some glass worms instead which my butterfly loves but are these nutritionally hollow? <They're fine for now but do have your LFS order in some Mysis shrimp. It's readily available from several different manufacturers; my favorite is Piscine Energetics brand.> From what I can make out from the limited info. on the pack, they seem to be similar to brine shrimp so maybe not such a good choice. <The idea is to provide a variety of foods, brine shrimp and glassworms can be part of a slurry of other types of foods with great success. I suggest you go out and pick up a few different kinds of seafood based frozen foods.>
Thanks very much in advance for your help.
<Enjoy! -Kevin>
Matt.

Aiptasia, Copperband, No Quarantine?
Hi all, my two month old 55 gal tank (only with LR and now some snails) is being overrun by Aiptasia. Was going to go the peppermint shrimp route until they died in transit via FedEx. My LFS (AWESOME) has offered a copperband for a couple weeks to clean them out and then I can return him. I know we are not supposed to be adding non-quarantined fish to the display tank, and past experience proves that theory as valid for me. Should I use the fish without QT?  Do we bend the rules in this case? Do I put the Butterfly right in the tank to go to work on the Aiptasia without a quarantine first? My understanding is that this Butterfly has a pretty specialized diet and is pretty hard to keep to begin with. Quarantining him in a bare tank would seem dangerous for the animal to begin with.  I know your opinion on QT so maybe I am wasting my breath.
<You are correct, nothing goes into the main tank without a 4-5 week QT.>
He also says the Peppermint Shrimp route is a 50/50 toss since there are two species of Peps and you might get the one that doesn't eat the Aiptasia.  Says the Copperband is the best route.
<Not sure about the two species, but the camel back shrimp is oft confused with the peppermint.>
This LFS is one of the most highly reputable and respected in my area, so chances are the fish would be in good condition and clean, but one never knows.
<Exactly. You might check here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/aiptasia/aipfaqs.htm and the links at the top of the page for more on Aiptasia. Don>
Any advice? Thanks.

New Copperband BF with Ich 3/29/04 
I woke up this morning and see that my Copperband is starting to get s few spots of ICK. As mentioned before, it's in a 10g QT by itself w/LR/LS. Should I give it a fresh water dip? 
<I do believe this will be very helpful. 3 minutes bare minimum to be effective... towards 5 minutes at least ideally. Do be sure to adjust the temperature and pH of the FW dip water very accurately to match the tank water. Aerate this bath several hours in advance too> 
Should I medicate the dip? 
<Formalin would be fine, but any of the organic dyes (Meth blue, Mal green, etc) or Copper/metals may take their toll on this sensitive fish> 
Should I just treat the entire tank? 
<if it is bare bottomed (glass) QT, then this may be an option.> 
If you recommend medication, what should I use? 
<Formalin and FW dips gets my vote. Daily or nearly so for the next week> 
I'm giving this fish my all - I don't know who's stressed more - me or the fish (fish I'm sure). Thanks again, Dennis Nolan 
<best of luck. Anthony>

Copperband not doing Well
My Copperband seems to be on the way out. He's sitting on the sand, seems to be unable to keep his balance, tips over then rights himself. I don't know what else to do. I've partitioned the tank so with glass so the butterfly won't be bugged by my tang. I've had the butterfly for over a month now, it seemed to be doing good, eating lots of clam and very responsive. Don't know if it was collected from the Philippines, could this be an after effect of cyanide? I didn't think fish collected would live this long. <Tristan, I'm sorry to hear about your Copperband, a truly beautiful fish. Regardless of what some books or articles may tell you, the Copperband is not easily kept without a good diet and excellent water conditions. You didn't mention any white spots on the fish so I'm assuming disease isn't the culprit, so that leaves diet and water quality remaining. Copperbands need lots of live rock to graze on. Other food supplements should be soaked in a vitamin solution such as Selcon or VitaChem etc. I don't believe clam alone is going to do it for this guy. Ten % weekly water changes are also a must. Before making any other butterfly purchases, make sure you can furnish what these fish need to survive in a closed system. Good luck and again, sorry about your Copperband. James (Salty Dog)> 

Marine Roulette Anyone?
We all know how awesome the WWM crew is - and so do they - that's why we all come back here!
<They told me there was free beer! You mean there isn't? I'm outta here!>
Enough said. What's odd is that so many of us have learned what we know of the marine hobby right here and by reading the works of WWM authors - yet so many of us insist on learning the hard way....
<Heeeeee! Human nature... my fave species>
For example, I have an overstocked 75 gal mixed reef and have never quarantined so much as one thing... The system has been up and running for over a year and I've watched the dreaded white spot signs of Ich teeter-totter between the fish's favor and the parasites favor. Had never had a serious enough outbreak to warrant pulling all of the fish out for treatment or letting the tank go fallow.... 'til now....
<Doh!>
Hadn't seen any signs of Ich for close to six-months, so in my infinite wisdom what do I do? Add a "King-O-Ich" Hippo
Tang. Well the pendulum quickly favored the Ich and I end up with a major breakout. Fortunately I had a 55 gal. sitting around looking thirsty so I tear the rockwork apart and catch the fish.... Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Royal Gramma, Two Ocellaris Clowns, Copperband Butterfly, and a Flame Hawkfish. They're being treated with Cupramine and for all those who've had trouble measuring this, the Seachem kit seems to keep a good handle on the copper levels. 
<They do have good products> 
Did I keep a sponge in the 75gal display to use in case of an treatment emergency such as this? Of course not....
<Doh times two~!>
So I'm changing significant amounts of water every other day to keep ammonia as low as possible. Livestock seem to be progressively doing better - but I'm concerned about the Copperband. He hasn't hardly eaten any provided foods since we got him. He seemed to pick off the rocks rather than touch anything we fed... Problem is - their obviously aren't any rocks in the hospital tank - and I've yet to see him eat a thing.
<Try a small "bivalve"... clam, cockle... opened up... these are almost irresistible to Chelmons... even stressed out ones in tiny volumes and copper>
It's been 8 days since he was admitted to the hospital. Before this Ich outbreak began, we had already been planning on a move into a 180, which is about another month out. We had purchased 40 lbs of additional live rock, which is curing in Rubbermaids. My question is this. ( I know - Finally) The new live rock in quarantine will be cured about the time that the copper treatment comes to an end, and hopefully the hospital tank has completely cycled. Yet I will still be weeks from moving into the 180 - so the fish will remain in the hospital tank until the move. The only thing in the hospital is PVC material (nothing Calcareous).
<Natch... as it would absorb the copper...>
For the betterment of the environment, can I add cycled live rock to the cycled hospital once the copper is removed with water changes, PolyFilter, and carbon?
<Yes>
Or should I not add anything copper sensitive since the tank has been exposed to copper.
<A small amount of precipitated copper is not a big deal>
I had read somewhere (don't know the validity) that the tank seals will act like a sponge and leach copper even after it is testing zero and believed removed. 
<Very, very little... in most cases/scenarios>
Obviously, the best thing would be to not get into this situation, but.... In light of the fact I am, what would be the best way to proceed? And yes, lesson learned... From now on apply the generous sharings of knowledge from those in the know.... Thanks, Brad.
<Better to move the Copperband elsewhere after two weeks treatment... with larger, more stable setting... try Mysids (live if you can get them)... soaked in Selcon or equivalent... Do pH adjusted freshwater dip the fishes enroute... Bob Fenner> 

Marine Roulette Anyone? avec James' Response
We all know how awesome the WWM crew is - and so do they - that's why we all come back here! Enough said. What's odd is that so many of us have learned what we know of the marine hobby right here and by reading the works of WWM authors - yet so many of us insist on learning the hard way.... For example, I have an overstocked 75 gal mixed reef and have never quarantined so much as one thing.  The system has been up and running for over a year and I've watched the dreaded white spot signs of Ich teeter-totter between the fish's favor and the parasites favor. Had never had a serious enough outbreak to warrant pulling all of the fish out for treatment or letting the tank go fallow 'til now. 
Hadn't seen any signs of Ich for close to six-months, so in my infinite wisdom what do I do? Add a "King-O-Ich" Hippo Tang. Well the pendulum quickly favored the Ich and I end up with a major breakout. Fortunately I had a 55gal sitting around looking thirsty so I tear the rockwork apart and catch the fish.... Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Royal Gramma, Two Ocellaris Clowns, Copperband Butterfly, and a Flame Hawkfish. 
They're being treated with Cupramine and for all those who've had trouble measuring this, the Seachem kit seems to keep a good handle on the copper levels. Did I keep a sponge in the 75gal display to use in case of an treatment emergency such as this? Of course not. So I'm changing significant amounts of water every other day to keep ammonia as low as possible. 
Livestock seem to be progressively doing better - but I'm concerned about the Copperband. He hasn't hardly eaten any provided foods since we got him. He seemed to pick off the rocks rather than touch anything we fed. Problem is - there obviously aren't any rocks in the hospital tank - and I've yet to see him eat a thing. It's been 8 days since he was admitted to the hospital. 
Before this Ich outbreak began, we had already been planning on a move into a 180, which is about another month out. We had purchased 40 lbs of additional live rock, which is curing in Rubbermaids. My question is this. ( I know - Finally) The new live rock in quarantine will be cured about the time that the copper treatment comes to an end, and hopefully the hospital tank has completely cycled. Yet I will still be weeks from moving into the 180 - so the fish will remain in the hospital tank until the move. The only thing in the hospital is PVC material (nothing Calcareous). 
For the betterment of the environment, can I add cycled live rock to the cycled hospital once the copper is removed with water changes, PolyFilter, and carbon? Or should I not add anything copper sensitive since the tank has been exposed to copper. 
I had read somewhere (don't know the validity) that the tank seals will act like a sponge and leach copper even after it is testing zero and believed removed. Obviously, the best thing would be to not get into this situation, but.... In light of the fact I am, what would be the best way to proceed? And yes, lesson learned... From now on apply the generous sharings of knowledge from those in the know....
<I don't think you would have a problem putting the live rock in the QT once you filter out the copper. I would try one thing for your Copperband. Get some Cyclop-eeze in the pump bottle. I'm thinking that will trigger him into eating. It's great stuff. Good for corals....my Percs love it and really colored up nice. James (Salty Dog)>

Butterflies that won't eat.. Marina offers a Tip to Induce Feeding
Hi Bob,
<Mar>
You and James answered the same query re: Copperband not eating in qt (Marine Roulette?). When working at the LBAOP (coral lab, acclimation and tropical quarantine for said lab) there were several "special" q/t setups. One was for the butterflies. On their regular q/t menu was bloodworms. I saw many, many difficult species being induced to feed *while* being treated with copper (though, they have an actual LAB there) on these things. When they hit the saltwater they *really* start wriggling, and I swear, if you had a hook and line attached to them you'd be fishing out butterflies. They would eventually be weaned onto krill, minced clam, and a few other meaty foods before going into display. 
Marina - missing the smell of the skimmers..
<Thank you for this... Please do post. BobF>

- Another Copperband Butterfly Question, More Follow-up -
My Copperband is eating frozen Mysis shrimp, Spirulina and vitamin enriched brine shrimp and freeze dried brine shrimp. Can it survive on this diet? 
<I'd like to see you ditch the brine shrimp... doesn't matter what's it's enriched with, it still is the dietary equivalent of a diet potato chip with olestra. If you could, try to get some meaty seafoods in there... some krill, mussel, shrimp, squid... would all do well by this fish.>
Thanks again, Larry
<Cheers, J -- >

Cyanided Copperband? - 03/31/2005
Hello,
<Ahoy, thar, Rob! Sabrina here, this fine evening.>
A couple of months ago I emailed you about my success with a Copperband butterfly in my 90 gallon reef tank. In fact you guys posted on your website, very cool. 
<We do try to post everything! Thank you for sharing your experience with us before; I hope we can be of service now....>
I have a question though. How do I determine if a fish has been caught by cyanide?
<This can be extremely difficult to determine with any certainty.... Location of collection may shed some insight; I believe a fish can be necropsied after death to discover if cyanide poisoning did it in or not....>
<<Editor's note: In general, not always, Indo-Pacific fishes may be suspect.  If not collected with cyanide, may have been exposed via run-off, downstream of mining operations.>>
For the last two months this same Copperband has been eating everything in sight, Mysis, bloodworms, squid, clam - pretty much whatever I put in the tank but for the last 2 weeks he seems to be getting thinner by the day. 
<So, he's eating heartily, but he's losing weight? A few possibilities here, including cyanide poisoning.>
I feed my fish 2-3 times a day and I vary their diet. I have quite a variety of fish in there. My water parameters are pretty much where they need to be, ammonia - 0, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 0, ph - 8.3. 
<Salinity? Alkalinity? Tank size? Other fish? Most recent addition? Were all additions quarantined?>
I have been observing the tank for several days and nights to see if other fish are harassing the Copperband causing it stress but none seem to be. There are no signs of parasites, fungus or bacterial infection. 
<Mm, actually, the fact that the fish is losing weight despite an obviously hearty appetite is a strong sign of internal parasites. Can't see 'em when they're on the inside, after all. It might also be an indication of mycobacteriosis, an essentially incurable internal bacterial complaint. Other signs of mycobacteriosis are deformations of the spine, possibly clouded/frayed fins, small lumps/granulomas, or bloating. Let's hope, for now, that it's not mycobacteriosis, and not cyanide poisoning, as there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do about those. Let's turn to the possibility of internal parasites, and explore that a bit.>
I have many years experience with saltwater fish and inverts but I have not seen this before. This Copperband seems to be wasting away no matter how much he eats and he eats a lot. What should I be looking for? 
<At this point, let's hope for the best. If you have access to a high-powered microscope, collect a fecal sample from the fish and take a look. You will probably need help from a university biology professor, or a veterinarian, with this, unless you have a lot of confidence in making a diagnosis. If you don't seek the help of someone of that nature, then try to get a hold of "Handbook of Fish Diseases" by Untergasser, "Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment" by Noga, or other book with good, accurate microscopic photographs of what to look for in the way of internal nasties. Mostly, you'll want to determine first if there IS anything in those guts, and secondly whether it's protozoan or a nematode, trematode, or cestode taking residence in the fish. If it seems that you're dealing with a protozoan, I would suggest treating with Metronidazole in food, as the fish is still eating. If you find signs of nematodes, trematodes, or cestodes, I would try treating with Piperazine or Levamisole in food. Now, if you DON'T have access to a good microscope, or vet, or good book, or you simply don't feel confidant with your findings, you could treat with Praziquantel in food, which should handle any of the above nasties - but you'll probably need a vet's help in obtaining this. Metronidazole, Piperazine and Levamisole are easily available in the aquarium trade, and can even be purchased already in foods. You might take a look at http://www.flguppiesplus.com ; I know they have some medicated foods available.>
I have to admit I am getting ticked off at the thought that he may have been caught with cyanide. 
<I would be, as well. I'd be infuriated.>
The fish store that got him in for me guaranteed he was not but you never really know do you? 
<Unless you feel you can trust the fish store, and they the wholesaler, and they the transshipper, in collection location, and you know that location does not permit collection via cyanide, then no, you really can't know. And even when the stars ARE in alignment, and you DO know the entire history of the fish, well, I'm sure it's just not possible to be absolutely 100% certain. Sadly, it is entirely possible that this IS the problem with your fish. I've still got my fingers crossed that it's a perfectly fixable situation, though.>
I would appreciate any thoughts on the matter. 
<And there you've got 'em. If you need further treatment information, the two books that I mentioned have great suggestions for treatment and dosages. Do try to look the books up, if you have the opportunity.>
Thanks,
Rob Mancabelli
Syracuse, NY
<Wishing you and your Copperband well, -Sabrina>

Re: cyanided Copperband? 4/5/05 - Response 4/14/05
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately my Copperband did not survive. I dissected him (I am a biology teacher) and found his liver was pitted and mushy. Cyanide? 
<<Hello, Marina today. I received an email from Sabrina a couple of weeks ago regarding this issue, and I "sent" her to speak with one Peter Rubec. He can be found under the username "PeterIMA" on http://www.reefs.org/ - here you can find more information regarding the use, presence, and effects of cyanide (in the Industry Forum). 
Know that it is not necessary for an animal to have been *collected* with cyanide. In many countries there are also mining operations, and cyanide seems to be associated with gold extraction. All that needs happen is for an animal to be in the area of such run-off. 
I can tell you that fishes exposed to cyanide do seem to experience problems with their livers (do Google this, I sent out links re) as well as the gut linings. What seems to happen is that a fish may/can eat, but is unable to absorb nutrients, thus gaining no nutrition from what is consumed. The fish can (and do) essentially starve, like King Midas, eating all the while starving to death. This process can (and often does) take months to occur. This is much more commonly seen in fishes found/collected in the Indo-Pacific regions, though it is NOT a rule.>>
I feel bad that this fish has died, I truly have not lost a fish in over 3 years. I may try another Copperband but I hate the thought of having the same thing happen again. I usually only buy fish I believe I can maintain for long-term so maybe a Copperband is not for me. Again thanks for your help.
<<I have not found this particular butterfly to be a difficult fish to keep ASSUMING it has been collected AND held/shipped properly. Easily as many fish are lost during the holding process as are through cyanide fishing practices. I understand your reluctance, but I will wager a guess that you keep other Indo-Pacific specimens. What is more important is to ensure that whomever you purchase the specimens from is purchasing from a reliable wholesaler. In the meantime, I will let Sabrina know that I've responded directly to you, will be keeping this correspondence in case she has anything more she'd like to add. Marina>>