Cnid Dis Diag F

FAQs on Stinging-Celled Animal Disease Diagnosis

FAQs on Cnidarian Disease: Cnidarian Disease 1, Cnidarian Disease 2, Cnidarian Disease 3, Cnidarian Disease 4,
FAQs on Cnidarian Disease by Category: Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Pathogenic, Parasitic/Pest, Trauma, Treatments
FAQs on Cnidarian Disease by Group: Hydrozoan Disease, Jelly Disease, Polyp Disease, Sea Fan Disease, Mushroom Health, Zoanthid Health Pests, Predators, Anemone Health, Stony Coral Disease,

Related Articles: Cnidarians, Water Flow, How Much is Enough,

Cyano bacterium... as a poss. factor in corals doing poorly 4/29/15
Hello Crew,
Just finished reviewing the exhaustive FAQ for the day and did not see my issue discussed. Poor coral growth. 88 gal with 25 gal refugium, tank is 28 in tall,
<Deep....>
38 across reef tank light bank 3 T5 bulbs coral sun Actinic 420 and 3 ocean sun 10,000k.
<Do you have access to a PAR or PUR meter? Maybe check w/ your LFS, clubs thereabouts re borrowing>
Have tried 5hrs -9 hrs of light a day. The tank is built in and is exposed on both front and back, no direct sun but lots of
light most days. Water temp 80.4, sp generally 1.024-25, pH 8.25, KH 108, Ca 410 relatively low phosphate and nitrate. Lots of live rock, feed reef energy A&B every other night. The problem is that every coral I put in the tank turns brown or brownish, I like mushrooms and have purchased green, orange, blue but within weeks they all turn brownish. Have enormous growing Frogspawn
<Ahh; this Euphyllia is one factor.... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/carycompfaqs.htm
but is brownish green.
Second problem, I started doing frequent water changes to control my hairy algae and it has been very helpful, but I have developed a Cyano bacterium problem that the local store said was due to too frequent water changes!
<Mmm; other factors really.... DO the reading re BGA, its control on WWM... easy enough to sort out>
He recommended Red Slime away "safe for inverts, corals fish.
<Can be of use; but... the reading>
Well now I still have red slim but lost an anemone, most of my snails, crabs and a gorgeous large Royal Gramma and a lovely Midas blue eyed blenny all of which seemed to be doing well prior to treatment. I am approaching true frustration.
Please impart some wisdom and help correct this situation.
Dr. Bob
<Do you need help using the search tool, indices? Your answers are all archived; well, speculations and further adventures more like. Do the reading and write back w/ more specific concerns. Bob Fenner>

death slime? Info.? 10/29/13
HI,
<DB>
My parameters are all in check. I've had my tank established for almost three years with no serious issues.
All of a sudden I noticed one day a pinkish slime (NOT CAYNO) covering 1 of my Ricordeas, the next day the Ricordea was completely gone... everything!
<... Cayno? You likely mean Cyano/bacteria... BGA>
About 2 days later I saw the slime on another Ricordea, I cleaned it off, but the Ricordea died just like the first.
A day or 2 later, the same thing happened to my last Ricordea
<No fun>
Now I came home from work and I noticed it on half of my war coral, I used a pipette to clean it off and the war coral is destroyed right down to the skeleton
Any ideas of what is going on? what I can do to treat the tank ?
<... do you have access to a microscope? I'd be looking at a bit of this material... chicken/egg sort of question here... Is there some sort of "destroyer" at work, OR just evidence of decomposition... ONCE whatever the cause is here killing your Cnidarians... In other words, need information/data to help you. Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance,
Dustin

Copper and coral 5/17/11
Hi Sara,
I'd like your input on a problem I have/had. I've had three or four large SPS branching corals that have been thriving/growing for over three years. A while back I bought a Raccoon Butterflyfish from my trusted dealer. Shortly after I placed the fish in my system along with the shipping water, the subject corals began bleaching and eventually killing the large head and two Galaxea corals. When I bought the fish, my friend, the owner was not present. I later come to find out that the owner treats his entire display system (fish only of course) with copper. My question to you is, do you believe dumping about 8 cups of this copper treated shipping water into a 5' x 18" x 18" (85 gallons) system could cause this. I'm thinking that in that amount of water, any copper in the bag would be diluted to a non dangerous level, likely just a minute trace. My dealer came over to observe what was going on and he felt there wouldn't be enough copper in the system to cause this. I tend to disagree with him and is why I am asking for your input. I have no other explanation why this could have happened other than the tainted water.
Cheers,
James (Salty)
<Aloha Games,
Good question. There's a lot of highly technical science journal articles on the effect of copper on corals and coral spawning, especially for Acropora species. From what I was able to gather from just briefly reviewing several of these abstracts, copper tolerance appears to vary among Acropora species. However, you can't help but notice that these studies all measure copper concentrations in ug/L. For example, one study looked at the effects of a range of copper solutions of 2 to 20 ug/L on a few different species of Acropora corals. I'll also note that marine invertebrates in general are probably intolerant (to varying degrees) of any concentration of copper higher than 10 ug/L. And I wouldn't be surprised if I found scholarly research to suggest that the tolerance is even lower among stony corals.
Ok, so, let's put this in perspective. I'm sure that copper treatment solutions vary in concentration from brand to brand and in application to application. Also, there's probably some relevance to particular type of copper solution used (i.e. is the solution made with copper sulfate or chelated copper? -- at marine aquarium alkalinity, chelated copper is less toxic to fish, but I'm not sure if it's less toxic to marine invertebrates). So we don't really know how much copper the store owner put in his system, what type of solution he used, or what dosage, etc. But let's just say, for arguments sake, that he brought the copper levels in his system to 0.25 ppm using copper sulfate solution (I believe this is considered, at least by some, to be the "target dose" for therapeutic use). As an aside, I'll note that CopperSafe instructs to maintain levels at 1.5 to 2.0 ppm with their chelated copper, which they seem to suggest is as safe as 0.3 ppm using copper sulfate solution. In any event, for all crude purposes, 1 ppm converts to 1000 ug/L, and thus 0.25 ppm converts to 250 ug/L (way too high for any marine invertebrate). However, your system is 85g and 8 cups is only half a gallon. Thus, your system would have diluted the copper treated water by a factor of roughly 170. So now we're down to a copper concentration of about 1.47ug/L (assuming yours started at 0). Would that be a concentration high enough to harm your corals? I don't know, but I would guess not (or at least, not to the extent you saw).
However, I'm sure it's possible that the store owner over dosed his system. Or maybe my calculations are wrong. Or, maybe your copper levels were already elevated, or perhaps your corals are just particularly sensitive. Who knows?
I do strongly suggest you read this nice article by aquaculture teacher and veterinarian, Roy Yanong;
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa165
Cheers,
Sara
>James, Sara, am going to post this to WWM if you have no objections. A couple of brief stmt.s/addenda: Some (very small) amount of copper (cupric ion, otherwise) is essential to coral metabolism (and most other life). The amount "brought in" w/ James' BF should be exceedingly little here. Strange to me, there are movements afoot (at the state Senate level here in CA) to do away w/ copper as an anti-fouling paint component... Save the... what? Ourselves AND the planet! Cheers, BobF<
Re: Copper and coral
The amount "brought in" w/ James' BF should be exceedingly little here.
<Agreed... perhaps I took too long to explain why. :-P
-Sara M.>
<Likely that bill-able hours thing! B>
Re: Copper and coral
Hi Bob,
<James>
I do not have a problem with you posting this. Awful upset about losing that large colony along with the Galaxea corals. I have two branching corals of another species and these were not affected at all. I might add that all my Shrooms wilted up to less than the size of a penny. They are still bright in color, not dead yet. I ran both a Poly Filter and Chemipure simultaneously after the event occurred although the Chemipure was always in the system. Sure beats the hell out of me, nothing added, nothing changed, no change of salt, parameters stable, SOP the same.
James
<Not the copper... B>
Re: Copper and coral 5/17/11
Haha, more likely just the habit of answering questions with long answers... :-/
<Ahh, this too. B>

Question about coral health... Beauty in the eye of the beholder 6/7/2009
G'day crew
<G'day mate!>
Well it's been awhile since my last query, so I reckon I must be about due for another ;)
<And here you are!>
As always, thanks in advance for the fantastic service that you guys provide.
<You're quite welcome from all of us crew, past and present.>
My question is about assumptions regarding coral health...specifically the use of colouration and polyp expansion as a benchmark of overall well being. The tendency is obviously to assume that the greater the degree of polyp expansion we have, and the more vibrant the colours of the corals are, the healthier they are.
<No, not necessarily.>
So the question is simply: "is this an accurate assumption?".
<No, not always.>
Or could this be misleading?
<Very.>
For example (and I am making these scenarios up on the spot to play devil's advocate)
<I like this.>
Could a poorly-placed coral which is not receiving enough light try and expand more fully in a vain attempt to expose more surface area to the light?
<Absolutely, mushrooms will often do this in low light situations, as will clams just to name a few that come quickly to mind.>
Or could some wastes which build up in coral tissues appear colourful and attractive to our eyes,
<Most certainly! Some of the prettiest corals to the untrained eyes are those that are bleached and dying.>
but be detrimental to health of the coral in the long-term?
<Of course.>
And just for the sake of clarity I am referring to corals which are in stable systems (e.g. those we observe on a day-to-day basis in our home aquariums), not those which have been recently collecting / relocated so
have shriveled or discoloured as a stress response.
<The key is knowing what the coral, or any livestock for that matter, should look like. Ideally, being familiar with how the life form looks and behaves in it's natural environment.>
Regards
<Cheers>
Leon (Brisbane)
<Mich (Pocono Mountains)>

Reef help, coral wont survive. 2/11/08 Hi, my name is Bryce. I live in the Cincinnati Ohio area. I have been in the hobby of saltwater aquariums now for 6 years and have had many reef tanks mostly nanos. I have been slowly purchasing my equipment for a bigger reef setup and yet am having trouble. For 2 months I have been struggling with my reef tank and need some help. Any coral I add never opens at all and dies or withers away. I first tried a finger leather, then I tried a silver branch xenia followed by a green star polyp colony and cant get anything to open. 3 months ago I took down my 150 gallon FOWLR tank and setup a 75 gallon tank I intend to make a reef. The tank is 48 inches wide and about 22 inches deep with the water column about 22 inches high give or take. I moved all my fish, rock, and inverts (no coral)...just blue and scarlet leg hermits and such once the new 75 gallon was setup. I moved 75 gallons of water from my 150 to start and two weeks later did a 25% water change like I usually do. My 75 gallon tank has a 1/2 inch thick Aragonite based sand bed, about 150 to 200 lbs of live rock and 50 or so hermits and snails. Lighting is supplied by 2, 150 watt 14k metal halides and 4, 65 watt actinic 03 compact fl's. I change my MH's every 6 months with Ushios, and the actinics with Coralife bulbs every 8 months. The MH's are 12 inches above the water surface, actinics are 6 inches. It is an open top tank. My circulation is from 2 Hydor Koralia pumps at 1200 gal/hr each and then my sump return of about 500 gal per hour. I have a siphon box which empties into a refugium tank with just Chaeto macro algae and a shallow sand bed with 10 lbs of live rock. It is lighted by a 50/50 65 watt compact fl. bulb. I let hair algae and green and what ever else grows grow in my refugium tank and clean out the hair algae once a month. I don't have any nuisance algae in my main tank. From my refugium my water pours over through a 25 micron filter bag and into my 20 gallon sump. I have an aqua-c ev180 protein skimmer, a Coralife 36 watt uv sterilizer, JBJ Arctica 1/10hp chiller, aqua-c rx-1 calcium reactor, a diy anaerobic denitrator, <What is this fed with? The source of carbon or?> and an auto top off unit connected to a solenoid through a ro/di unit recently tested at 7ppm total dissolved solids. My water changes come from this ro unit and I use reef crystals as my salt mix at a specific gravity of 1.025 measured with a hydrometer. My parameters are as such. Water is 79 to 80 degrees, nitrates 0ppm, nitrites 0ppm, phos 0ppm, magnesium is always around 1250ppm, calcium is about 400 to 420 ppm, ph is 8.3, kH is 10 to 11, ammonia is always undetectable. I dose with only magnesium and use Carib sea A.R.M in my reactor. When I got my 75 gallon tank all setup and running I had 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 blue tang and 1 royal Gramma. All the fish had been in my 150 gallon tank for at least 6 months, the clowns over 3 years. My trouble started when I noticed my Gramma was always in hiding. I thought since the acclimation maybe he was stressed. He died 2 weeks after the tanks was setup. Then my blue tang died of what appeared to be an Oodinium infection as did my clowns shortly after. I have no idea where the Oodinium came from as my newest fish .. the blue tang ... was quarantined for 3 weeks before going in the 150 gallon tank and lived there for months without any problem. <Somehow got by...> I assume that there must have been a very small number of the parasite in the water and the immunity of the fish was able to keep it under control until the stress of a new home maybe lowered their immune system. I don't know. But that added to all this frustration. It leads me to believe there is an "unseen" problem with my water quality. <I agree... Your set-up reads as fine... but there is a chemical, perhaps bio-chemical anomaly here somewhere> I had several thoughts about what may be wrong. I thought maybe H2S from my denitrator was getting in my water. <Mmm, this, or...> Effluent out of the unit doesn't smell and it is at a constant drip rate into the sump and the tank is very well circulated. The denitrator has been running now for 4 years on whatever tank setup I have at the time. I have never had any problems with it. <This gear can/does change...> Sand bed is shallow...so I ruled out h2s in my mind. Plumbing was all new with pvc and I used aquarium grade silicone with standard pvc cement for all joints. Perhaps some chemical is getting into my water? <From? A cat-box near by? Someone spraying glass et al. cleaner in a too air-tight house?> Perhaps the first coral I introduced died and released some chemical toxin my other subsequent coral attempts did not like? <Most real possibility mentioned yet> I thought maybe my RO/DI unit was malfunctioning in some way... I tested the water locally at a dealer of units and total dissolved solids was 7ppm.. id like it at 0 but with Ohio river water as my starting point I think it is working ok. I changed my carbon pre and post filter every 6 months along with my DI resin. My skunk cleaner shrimp, all my crabs, my snails, everything is alive and well and seems to be doing great. <A good clue> Just cant get my corals to open up. I acclimate them slowly using standard bag floating methods. <Mmm, see WWM... I'd acclimate Cnidarians differently. Posted> I always start with my lights off and proceed with only actinics for one day. Then each day have my MH's on one more hour until I am up to the full 8 hour photoperiod. I typically use my actinics from 8am to 9pm and my MH's from 11am to 7pm. I have had many corals in the past and have never had a problem quite like this one. I always had a minimum amount of lighting and equipment though. I have never had such an elaborate setup as I do now and yet cant get any coral to live. I don't know if my Oodinium problem was related to bad water quality in some way or if it was just stress from the move. <Also agreed> Sorry to write a book but I just wanted your professional help and opinion as to my next move or next thing to test for. I don't want to keep trying coral without knowing why they don't open up. Something is not right. Could I be filtering my water so well that it is devoid of what the coral needs to open and thrive? <Mmm... not likely> Is it all just happening too fast after I setup my 75 gallon tank and things just are not quite in balance? Please help, thanks BRYCE. <Could be the source of the livestock/corals even... I would try setting up another system to acclimate them in... move some of the water from the 75 once some are settled in (a few weeks to months)... to test the "poor water" hypothesis... Then... I would systematically remove one element at a time... My first choice, the denitrator. Bob Fenner>
Re: reef help, coral wont survive. 2-12-08 We have a cat box downstairs about 6 feet from the 30 gallon top-off water tank. I guess this could be my issue. What is in the cat litter that would cause my problem? <Mostly thought to be ammonia getting into solution... can be measured if present> I guess I should move one or the other. <And do consider the systematic water and gear testing protocol mentioned previously. BobF>

Corals suddenly wilted! A joke? No useful data, or reading 12/12/07 so. This happened a couple days ago and finally finished yesterday. I came home to look @ my tank and saw that all of my hairy mushrooms, my branching hammer coral and another branching polyp coral had all suddenly wilted and looked dead. Around the rock where the hairy mushrooms were, a cloudy milky white ooze was covering the rock and some of the mushrooms were completely gone. The other 2 corals were near it seem to be affected by what ever happened. The rest of the corals and fish in the tank seem to be ok. What happened?! Can they be saved or should I say a prayer for them now... I have already pulled them out of the tank and put them in a bucket with a heater and fresh saltwater... please help! ~mike <Uhh, can't tell you much from the data presented... no information re your system, water quality, foods/feeding... What you list can't all be simply jammed in together in a small volume though. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked files above... And soon... your system is crashing. Bob Fenner>
Re: Corals suddenly wilted! - 12/13/07 I'm sorry. I didn't know what other information to provide. This is definitely not a joke. The affected corals were together in harmony for quite some time before this happened. Over 3 months. When the water was tested, everything was ok. PH was slightly low, but nothing to be alarmed about. (between 7.9 & 8.0). <Too low...> This is all in a 24g Nano cube with ample space between them. <No...> Everything is fed daily, using Spirulina and some frozen Mysis shrimp. What other data can I provide to help? <... please don't write, read where you were referred to... and soon. BobF>

Black Band Disease?? Likely poor env., perhaps allelopathy... 7/28/07 Anyone that can help, <Okay...> This is the next best thing to dialing 911 when I have an aquarium problem. <Better> I have this dark brown kind of slime that has killed my polyps and started damaging my mushrooms and now is starting to kill my hammerhead. I looked at the mushrooms and they almost look dirty. There's brown all over the small crevasses that forms the mushroom. I did some research and it sounds like the black band disease. How do I get this out of my tank? Please tell me how I can cure my tank. I have a 55 gal. In which I do monthly water changes and once a week ad a capful of Alkalinity Plus from NatuReef and another capful of Hardness Plus also from NatuReef. <... what water quality testing do you do?> I feed my corals Cyclop-Eeze mixed with a capful of phytoplankton from Kent Marine twice a week. <What do you have that consumes phytoplankton?> All the other corals look healthy and fat. Help before they all die. Thanks Elsa <You're joking? Not I take it... you've presented no useful info.. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm Peruse the articles, FAQs files... re Disease of the various "corals" you have... their "Systems", Compatibility... perhaps pattern your queries like others there. Bob Fenner>

Yep, actual photo sent.

Coral <sic> Health 3/3/07 Hi Guys, <Hello Joe> I have a 135 gallon Reef Tank that has been set up and running successfully for over 9 months. Just three days ago, a large colt coral and a mushroom that were doing very well for over 6 months started to die. The Colt Coral has all but withered away (In 3 Days!). I noticed the mushrooms starting to detach in the past 24 hours. What could be causing all these issues all of a sudden? I haven't changed I do or added anything to the tank in several months (except a Coral Beauty 2 weeks ago. But he has shown no interest in any of the corals). I do 25 % water changes every 30 days. <Part of your problem may lie here. I believe too much of a change in water parameters at once, especially if the water chemistry is not closely matched to the display tank. I'd rather see you with 5% weekly or 10% twice monthly.> PH - 8.2 Ammonia and Nitrite zero Calcium - 450-500 I use Kalkwasser for top off water (RO unit) Once a week I add Kent's: Iodine, Strontium, Magnesium, Essential Elements I add Kent Calcium A & B daily Lights are 3 - 150 watt Halides (about a year old) and 4 - 96 watt Actinic Blue's. <How old are the lamps, the color temperature may have shifted. On another note, are there any cleaning sprays, etc, that are used in the area of the tank, ammonia based cleaners such as Windex?> Protein Skimmer working fine I hate these "mystery" problems. Any help you can give would be appreciated so I can avoid this problem moving forward. <I'd check the water chemistry of the make-up water before you add the salt, may be something amiss here.> Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Joe
Re: Coral Health 3/4/07 Thanks for the help. You mentioned testing the RO water before adding salt. What should I be testing for? Could I use my saltwater test equipment? <If you have a local pure water store, I would take a sample of your RO water there and have it tested for total dissolved solids. This will ensure that your RO unit is working properly. Most importantly, ensure the water chemistry of the new mix is very close to the chemistry in the display tank.> Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Joe

Re: coral concern- now in panic mode! 9/23/06 Good morning! I'm writing back today regarding the same issue detailed below. It's now been several weeks and no improvements that I can see. I've continued to do 20 - 25% water changes 3 times a week. My nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all still at 0. These have been at undetectable levels for months and months so I don't think that this is an issue here. My salinity is at 1.025, temp at 77 degrees. I've been changing my carbon 3 times a week and have completely removed the Chemi-pure after removing the Zoa's per your suggestion. The Zoas have been out of the tank for 12 days now with no change. I'm beginning to wonder if that was ever the problem. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but there are two small "baby" mushroom leathers growing at the base of the big mushroom leather that is the concern. These babies are not affected at all. Their tentacles are fully extended all day every day & this has never changed. If this was an allelopathy issue with the Zoas & mushroom leather... wouldn't the "babies" be affected too? I would appreciate any suggestions that you might have. I really am in panic mode. Every day that the leather stays the same I get more and more worried. I know it is suffering and I don't know what else to do. I'm so sad about this. I thought I was a consciences aquarist, but now not so sure... Thank you in advance for your consideration, It is much appreciated! Jaime <<Jaime: I read through all your posts. What type of lighting do you have and where is the leather placed in the tank? What kind of what flow does it have around it? Are there mushrooms nearby or upstream of the flow? They usually don't like heavy flow. In my tank, they don't like mushrooms nearby. Best of luck, Roy>>

Stunted Polyps are Stumping Me 01-01-06 Hello. <Aloha> Read and reviewed most of the FAQ on Polyps but none addressed my specific problem. I have a 55 Gallon Tank that's been running for over a year. ph 8.4 Calcium 340 dKH 14 Nitrate 0 Nitrite 0 <These tests look good.> 3 Power Heads for water circulation Tank has 35 pounds of Live Rock Fish; 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Bluefin Damselfish, 1 Purple Firefish, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Pygmy Angelfish <Sounds good, but remember that tang will out-grow your tank in a hurry.> Polyps; Green Star Polyp, Colony Polyp, Button Polyp Mushrooms; Red Mushroom, Bubble Mushroom, Green Striped Mushroom, Coral Red Brain Coral. The concern is regarding all of the Polyps. All are severely stunted. The Green Star was my first purchase and for the longest time (say 5 months) it grew and was fully extended. Then one day. it shrunk and has never returned to its normal size. <This can be a common occurrence in some tanks. It seems to surface with extremely clean water, like that found in SPS tanks, or tanks with high nitrates or phosphates.> Could it be toxins from the Red Brain Coral? <It could be, but I would blame the Shrooms first. This can be resolved with simple activated carbon usage.> They are about 24 inches away from each other. <Distance does not matter in a closed system.> Could the lights be too bright.? I have a Coralife Lunar Aqualight installed it Feb 2005 and have not changed the light bulbs. <Could be out of spectrum.> The Green Star and Colony Polyp look healthy. The Button does not. < I would lean toward an elevated phosphate level or chemical warfare.> Maybe I'm missing something that's right in front of my nose. So any and all suggestions of what is going on would be helpful. <Run a phosphate sponge and activated carbon.> Lastly.. I looked at some pictures of other Red Brain Coral on the internet and while mine looks healthy it is in a "closed position" (kinda looks like a Clam) rather than an Open position. <Could be due to the same water issues listed above or the lighting is out of spectrum. Remember water and bulb changes never hurt. Travis> Hope this was enough. by the way. I do enjoy this hobby :-)

My corals won't open? Hello, I recently purchased two corals.....Green Star and Pagoda They have yet to open their polyps... my tank levels are excellent.. any ideas? Also how do I keep my hermit crab away from the corals and live rock? <Please read over our site: www.WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner> Thanks Scott Ullemeyer Well, the same question back apply: Some folks systems are missing an essential material/nutrient... like trace strontium or iodine, or have too much of something... like too much phosphate.... or don't realize they've installed incompatible types of livestock that are waging physical, chemical war actively or passively with each other. Or have conditions that otherwise favor or contribute to factors that negate "opening" behavior, like too little light. All these considerations are species, population and system specific. That's why it's necessary to as about your livestock, set-up and history... Or to write several thousand words trying to describe the most common possibilities/reasons for opening/non-opening of your/anyone's corals. Bob Fenner

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