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FAQs on Mormyrid Fishes Disease/Health
Related Articles: Mormyrids,
Elephantfishes, Electrogenic Fishes,
Related FAQs: Mormyrids,
Elephantfishes, Mormyrid
Identification, Mormyrid Behavior,
Mormyrid Compatibility,
Mormyrid Selection,
Mormyrid Systems,
Mormyrid Feeding,
Mormyrid Reproduction,
Bony Tongue Fishes,
Electrogenic Fishes,
Aba Aba Knifefish, African Butterflyfish,
Arapaimas,
Arowanas, Featherfin Knives,
New World Knifefishes, |
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Mormyrid Problem 12/31/08
My elephant nose has red cheeks (ulcer?) on both sides and his brain seems
larger than any other I've seen (almost swollen looking). Could it possibly be
internal parasites? I have 5 tanks and am not new to keeping aquariums but have
never encountered this and cannot find an explanation anywhere to what may be
the cause of these odd symptoms. He eats well and dominates the tank (tank mates
are: 3 honey gouramis & 6 African mini frogs & a Betta in
60 gal) Water
quality is excellent. Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.
<Hello; it's very unlikely "internal parasites" are to blame, but Mormyridae are
very prone to systemic bacterial infections. Aquarists sometimes make the
mistake of keeping them in tanks with gravel rather than smooth silica sand; the
gravel damages their sensitive "trunk" allowing bacterial infections to get
started. It's really pointless trying to keep
them in tanks with gravel. As
you hopefully know, it's impossible to treat Mormyrids with anything containing
copper and formalin, so you're limited to things like Maracyn in this instance.
Do see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mormyrids.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Elephant Nose Skin 12/27/08
Peeling/Fin Deteriorating Happy Holidays WWM Crew!
I will make this
as short and sweet, yet detailed, as possible. I have a 55 gallon tank
with a heater, Whisper60 power filter, and a single airstone on the
opposite end of the tank as the filter. Water Parameters:
Ammonia:
0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 10, pH: 8.3 (Very hard water where we live)
<In itself, this water chemistry should be acceptable though not ideal
for Mormyrids; water quality seems good.>
Stock includes:
Approximately 25 Mollies (Here's the story on the excessive number of
mollies: A year ago we started with 6 of them, one female was constantly
pregnant. The others died throughout the year for various reasons and
finally a few months ago our pregnant female died as well. However, in
her last months in the tank she had 3 different batches of fry. Most
survived and thrived. I take a bag of them to Petco every now and then,
whenever it becomes difficult to keep up the cleanliness of the water.
So at this point we've got approx. 25 1.5" mollies. Possibly too many
for the tank, but as of 20 minutes ago the water read as stated above.)
1 Elephant Nose
1 Shrimp (last seen in March, but with no ammonia
spikes having occurred,
I'd imagine he's found a nice spot to hide)
1 Guppy
Here is our issue: While all the mollies and the guppy (and
the shrimp, too, I hope) are acting and looking perfectly well, I
noticed peeling skin on the Elephant Nose late yesterday. Additionally,
his dorsal fin looks slightly deteriorated. It doesn't look ragged or
torn, but more like melted plastic (sorry... it's the best I could come
up with). This Elephant Nose is about 6" from nose to tail, and the area
that is peeling is nearly 1.5" long down its back and goes down its
sides just slightly.
If you look at it closely it looks like there are 4 different tiny spots
down his back that are each surrounded by a circle of damaged skin...
and all areas are connected. So far its acting more or less normal, but
I've noticed slightly less activity tonight (he's out of sight during
the day and becomes active as the day ends). He is eating normally, as
well.
<The "melted" fin does sound like Finrot; while usually caused
by water quality-induced opportunistic infections, it isn't beyond the
realms of possibility for mechanical injury or even damage from other
fish to be responsible. Mollies for example can be aggressive, though in
all honesty I doubt they're the problem. But that said, I have seen
seemingly harmless fish cause harm to one another, for example
Otocinclus catfish damaging the skin of large gobies. Mollies are expert
"raspers", and it's not impossible they're sucking the mucous off the
Elephantnose, allowing a secondary infection.>
The only thing I can
imagine that could have caused this would be stress.
We recently had
to move the entire tank/stand to the other side of the room and had to
drain most of the water to reduce the weight of the set-up. We did not
have to remove any of the fish during this process. While this may have
been stressful for the Elephant Nose, we've had it for over a year now
and had to move to a house 20 mi. away about 8 months ago. During this
process we drained all but enough water to keep the gravel submerged in
order to keep at least part of our bio-filter during the move. All the
fish were bagged and put into a dark cooler during the trip. All
survived!! But the Elephant Nose was especially stressed out by the time
he got back into the tank. So much so that his color temporarily faded
to being a very light gray/white. But he recovered almost instantly and
was always very healthy up until now. And in fact, his skin is looking
slightly better today then it was yesterday (when I first noticed it).
But his fin is still the same.
<Stress is of course a possible but
I'm always keen on aquarists differentiating between the (quantifiably
dangerous) stress caused by poor water quality compared to the (much
less measurable) stress caused by being unhappy. In other words, while
fish clearly become sick when exposed to the wrong environmental
conditions, it's much less clear that fish become sick because they're
exposed to something we'd perceive as being troubling or stressful. So
while I wouldn't dismiss the idea that a schooling fish would be
stressed if it was kept singly, or a female Molly might be harassed by a
male, that a fish would develop serious sickness weeks or months after
being moved is, to me, less likely. I'd focus on reviewing the
environment.
Mormyrids have small scales and are likely to be
damaged by things like sharp gravel, coarse plastic plants, bleached or
replica corals, coarse nets, and so on.>
So... what can i do?
<Initially at least, even without understanding the cause, I'd be
treating for Finrot. Use a medication that doesn't contain either copper
or formalin; Maracyn would be ideal, or Maracyn 2 if the former doesn't
work.
The point is to put a stop to whatever the bacterial infection
is, even without identifying it.>
What is this?
<Not sure.>
What caused it?
<Difficult to say.>
Thank you so
much for your time. -CB
<Good luck, Neale.>
Ich elephant nose 10/23/07
I have had my elephant nose Approximately
8 months. He has been happy and healthy. He has developed tiny white
spots on his pectoral fins and anal fin that look like ich. Is there any
medicine I can treat him with that won't kill him?
Thank You
Karen
<Hello Karen. With Mormyridae, the things to avoid specifically are
Formalin and Copper, both of which are widely used in anti-Ick
medications. So you need to treat Mormyridae in the same basic way as,
say, Clown Loaches (see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/clnlchdis.htm ).
Anyway, the basic trick is this: raise the temperature to 30 degrees C
(around 86 F). Oxygen level goes down as temperature goes up, so you
need to compensate for that. Add additional aeration if you can, but
failing that, adjust the water level and/or filter so there is lots of
splashing and circulation. Now make up a brine solution in a jug, with
about 2-3 grammes of aquarium salt (not marine salt) per litre of water
in the aquarium (in other words, a salinity of 2-3 PPT). There's almost
exactly 6 grammes of salt per teaspoon, so estimating how much you need
should not be too difficult. Stir the salt into the water thoroughly
until dissolved, and then slowly add the brine a little at a time into
the outflow of the filter so that it quickly disperses around the tank.
After a few days the parasites on your fish will mature and die, but the
mobile parasite larvae will not be able to re-infect your fish, and the
disease will go away. This takes quite a few days, but it does work.
Increasing the salt concentration to as much as 6 grammes per litre of
water can be used to deal with stubborn infections, but the higher the
salinity, the more gently you need to adjust your fish to it, and the
higher the degree of osmotic stress placed on the fish. Conversely, once
you're done treating the fish, do a series of relatively small water
changes over the next few days to gradually bring the salinity down to
zero. As ever, do establish why the Ick became a problem. It doesn't
come from nowhere, and is either brought in by unquarantined fish or
else provoked into action by stress or lapses in water quality. With
Mormyridae, prevention is FAR better than cure. Good luck, Neale.>
Baby Whale & Fish-Tail Rot Medication - 06/27/07
Neale,
<Hello Michelle,>
Thank you for your wonderful advice regarding the baby whale. Maracide is a
5-day treatment (today will be day 4), so far the baby whale and the snails are
fine and the ick vanished. Every night I siphon-up about 3 gallons of water (38
gallon tank) from just above the gravel, where I read ick parasites inhabit. I
thought about moving the baby whale, but he seems to have made a home for
himself under driftwood and our hospital tank is now housing my one remaining
gourami... who seems to be doing ok.
<Very good. Siphoning up the baby whitespot parasites sounds a bit unlikely to
work to me, but it can't do any harm I suppose.>
Also, we have a new challenge; it seems that the lovely rainbow fish contributed
not only ick but fin-tail rot. The betta finnage was devastated seemingly
overnight. Next in line are the Panda Corys (primarily the dorsal fins). I am a
bit concerned because about a year back I had one Panda Cory be consumed by some
kind of fin-tail rot bacteria that seemed resistant to everything, and in the
end there were no fins left... It was the saddest thing I've seen happen to any
of my fish, doubly so because I'm particularly fond of Corys (there about 3
years old).
<Now, finrot is almost always caused by water or fin-nipping issues. Sometimes
it does come in with new fish, but only very rarely. 99 times out of 100, it's
either the environment or persistent nipping by other fish in the tank. Given
the baby whale is OK, water quality is likely to be good, but water chemistry
might not be. Mormyrids aren't fussy about water chemistry (they're found in
habitats as varied as blackwater streams and Rift Valley lakes). But rainbows
like neutral to slightly alkaline, moderately hard water. That the dorsal fins
of the Corydoras are rotting immediately suggests fin nipping though. I've seen
this when keeping Corydoras with pufferfish (not a good combo!). Ditto with the
Betta; these fish are notorious targets for fin nippers. So, what's in the tank?
Anything likely to be nippy?>
I've started treating with Maracyn II (although, I've never had much success
with this medication). Today will be the third day. The fin-tail rot doesn't
seem to be progressing... I think, but I can't detect re-growth either. Would
you suggest I continue, or stop treatment with Maracyn II.
<Unless there are compelling reasons not to *always* finish off medications.>
On hand I have, Mardel's TriSulfa and Maracyn Plus. I've never tried a
sulfa-based medication before. I could also go & buy whatever you suggest.
Again a concern is the baby whale (who seems fine.. still slurping up worms).
<Like you, I'm pleased the baby whale is happy, and that strongly suggests the
basic conditions in the tank are sound. I'd personally be spot-treating the fish
with finrot by dipping them into baths of some sort. Even saltwater (marine salt
mix or uniodized cooking salt added to a litre of aquarium water) dips can work
to slow down mild finrot (seawater strength, for 2-20 minutes depending on the
size and species involved). An adult Corydoras, for example, would probably be
safe dipped for around 3-5 minutes. They are not very salt tolerant. Freshwater
livebearers and cichlids, on the other hand, are often much more salt tolerant
so you can be more aggressive with the dips. The idea is to dehydrate the
external parasites and clean the wounds while not harming the fish. Provided the
fish being dipped stays upright and stable, you're fine, but if it loses balance
or starts thrashing about wildly, pull it out. Repeat daily until things are
better. Finrot is an exceedingly aggressive disease, and untreated spreads to
the body, resulting in septicaemia, which is basically untreatable (and fatal).>
Cheers,
Michelle
<Hope this helps, Neale>
Ick treatment & a Baby Whale 6/23/07
Hello, Thank you kindly for your prognosis on the Dwarf Gourami. I'll keep
them isolated and cross my fingers.... and not re-stock with Dwarf Gouramis.
Another question: Today I noticed that one of the rainbow fish (Red Rainbow
female) has 2 tiny white spots... sweet mother of science, I fear ick. She's a
relatively new introduction to the tank (4 days) but was quarantined for 8 days
prior to being introduced. If ick, I've previously had success with Mardel's
Maracide Concentrate... but what about the Baby Whale who lives in the tank
(I've had him for about 8 months now... a healthy happy 4 inch Mormyridae) can
he withstand an ick treatment like Maracide. Many thanks, Michelle
<Happy to help. It's a shame that Dwarf Gourami Disease is so common. Anyway, as
for the Ick in your aquarium, be extremely careful when treating the tank. I am
not personally familiar with this medication, but I'm a bit concerned that its
web page says it "may be harmful to amphibians and some snails". Anyway, before
using it, check that the carton said it was safe with invertebrates and
stingrays. Anything safe with those should be safe with mormyrids; if it doesn't
say it is safe for those, then assume it is not. If your retailer doesn't know,
then checking the web site (or telephoning) the manufacturer can help. The
safest thing is move the Mormyrid to a quarantine tank, treat the main tank, use
carbon and water changes to remove leftover medication, and then return the
Mormyrid. With luck, your Mormyrid will not be infected. Since you've had the
baby whale 8 months, he's obviously settled in and feeding -- so I wouldn't take
any chances risking such a lovely animal. Cheers, Neale>
Sick Elephant Nose 4/10/07
Hi!
<Hi Ashley, Pufferpunk here>
I have an elephant nose that I purchased about two to three months
ago. He was doing well until today. I turned on the lights and found him
resting in the plants near the bubble wall at the back of the tank.
<Unless you have some kind of plastic tube to observe this fish, that's what it
will do mostly--hide. They are generally not open-swimming fish & only come out
to eat.>
I thought he was dead! I used my net to try to get him and he
moved in the tank. He looks a little thin, doesn't seem to eat much and is very
unbalanced.
<Probably starving to death. This is the #1 cause of death in these fish. They
will only eat worms & prefer live.>
Since he was resting near the bubbles, he had small bubbles on his body but
after they "popped" I noticed that he had a small yellow-ish spot at the base of
one of his "side" fins (I call them the swimmer fins... or arm fins... whichever
is more helpful). He is about three inches and the spot is about the size of an
uncooked couscous ball and roughly the same in color. All of the other fish
seem fine (Mollies, Gouramis, Pleco and two Iridescent sharks).
<You don't mention the size of your tank but do you have any idea yow large
iridescent sharks get???
[IMG]
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/Pufferpunk/Other%20Fish/iridescentsharks.jpg[/IMG]
>
The water quality is good and partially changed weekly.
<Good means nothing to us. Best to post exact parameters, when asking for
help.>
What would you say is the diagnosis? What are possible methods of
treatment? Having accidentally used "quick cure", I am scared to use most
medications. (He survived without incident in this case). I did increase the
water temperature, added a "therapeutic" amount of aquarium salt and performed a
water change.
<These fish will not appreciate any amount of salt. They come from soft water
conditions. The Quick Cure may have irritated his skin. I'd do a 50% water
change & add Melafix. Go to your LFS & get live blackworms. Rinse thoroughly
in a brine shrimp net & throw out any that look dead. Put them into a worm cone
feeder, he'll find them. All your fish will love them too! You can store the
worms in a shallow container with holes on top & 1/4" of water. Rinse
daily. Hopefully it's not too late. Some fish, once in starvation mode, won't
eat.>
My nephews are attached to "Big Al", as are my husband and me! Please advise!
<Good luck with Big Al, I hope he makes it! ~PP>
Thank you, Ashley
Monogeneans from the gills of Mormyrid fishes
Dear Profesor,
<Blahoua>
I hope you will understand this message easily; my English is quite poor.
<No worries>
I am called BLAHOUA KASSI Georges. I am a doctorate of the university of
Cocody-Abidjan (Ivory Coast). I undertake my research in Laboratory of
Hydrobiology. I just red in the internet one of your publications which title
is: “The Elephantfishes, family Mormyridae, in Aquariums My topic concerns the
Monogenean from the gills of Mormyrid fishes.
Concerning the bibliography, I have some difficulties because I don't have any
previous publications. I will be duly grateful you send me publications on
“Gills Monogenean parasites from Mormyrid fishes”. You can also give me names
and e-mails of some persons who have worked on my topic that you know.
Doing so you will help me a lot in my research works.
Best wishes in 2005.
Sincerely yours.
<I suspect you don't have easy access to large library collections as well do
here. Where would I send this material? Bob Fenner>
BLAHOUA KASSI GEORGES
Address postale : University of Cocody, UFR Biosciences,
LABORATORY OF HYDROBIOLOGY
22 BP 582 Abidjan 22 (Coast of Ivory)
Dead elephant nose
I bought an elephant nose about a month ago and lost him 3 wks ago, after
reading your information on them, I wish I would have had the feeding test done,
then I would have known not to buy him, he would not eat and got skinnier and
skinnier, it was horrible, I brought him to the pet store, and he wouldn't eat
for them either, they treated him for internal parasites for a wk in a half and
he still didn't look good.
<Likely too far gone from the process of (likely chemical) collection in the
wild, starving, poor water quality from there through shipping, handling...
Happens to whole shipments at times>
So from what I read what you have wrote, do you have any ideas in what I could
do to keep my elephant nose alive, when I buy one in the near future. Do you
have any idea to why he wouldn't eat, because I did ask them how long was he
here before I bought him and they said 3 wks, and he look good, apparently not
or he would have ate. Also my water was good where it should be, so I can't
figure why he wouldn't eat?
<Morymyrids find aquatic worms almost irresistible... try blackworms,
tubificids... if the specimen/s don't take these, I would leave them at the
shop>
If you could help me it would be appreciated, I don't know any where else to
turn to there is not a lot of people that know about these fish.
<There is considerable known about their esoteric biology, but not much
popularized re their practical husbandry... Many die from jumping out (for lack
of an adequate aquarium cover) and metal poisoning from errant medicine
treatment for instance... Easily avoided>
Thanks, Sincerely
Shelley
<Bob Fenner>
Elephant Nose With His Trunk Bitten Off
Thank you so much for letting us know. We will set up a dedicated
tank for the turtle. As for the elephant-nose, we could use a little further
advice. He looks pretty bad - he has a big red splotch next to his
nose on one side, and the nose itself is white and fuzzy. It is so
sad. So, based on what you wrote, I guess he has both a bacterial
as well as a fungal infection. How can I treat him and help him to
get better?
< Put him in a hospital tank with clean water and a place for him to hide. Not
too bright. Treat with Nitrofuranace as per the directions on the package. This
medication treats both infections.>
I know many medicines are not good to put in a tank with an elephant- nose. Is
there anything we can do to ease his pain and help in heal?
< These fish are sensitive to the copper in many ich medications. This is not a
problem with antibiotics. Keeping the water clean will help a lot.-Chuck> Thanks
in advance. Rebecca and Sal
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Elephantnose trtmt.... 3/24/06
I found some Furan-2 Capsules, so do you think this is safe for
my little Elephantnose?
Should use full dose as per directions?
<Yes>
(Furan-2 Directions - Contains 2 furan based compounds to combat a
variety of gram positive and negative bacteria. Effective against
gill disease, mouth fungus, fin and tail rot, dropsy, furunculosis
and black molly disease. Use one tablet per 10 gal. daily for up to
four days.)
<250 mg. per ten gallons of system water, yes>
Also, I have 4 DAY and 6 week old Boesemanni Rainbow fry in the
tank (waiting for their tank to finish cycling) can I use this med
or should I just wait until they are moved out.
<I'd move these first>
(Mr. Elephantnose is getting the spots –bacterial gray-wht spots- he
started to break out the other day, I use Melafix, which only held
for a few days- this morning it is back and bigger. And I think this
all came from one of my large Rainbows,- see pic - he has Gill
Disease and he has been treated 8x's just can't kill it all off.
(any ideas, already tried PP, but he just did more damage to himself
but trying to jump out out the holding tank and ramming into the
lid.
FYI - My Tank:60
3 - Rummynose Tetra
2 - Cardinal Tetra
2 -Yoyo Loach
3 -4” Boesemanni Rainbowfish (1 female, 2 males)
1 – 5” Elephantnose
1 – Candy Striped Pleco
1 – Golden Algae eater
Eheim pro 2026, 1-Ebo-Jager 250 watt heaters,1 Coralife Turbo Twist
6x 18w,1 Rena 400 air pump, sand/gravel mix bottom, with live
plants, drift wood, and stones.
PH 8.0
No2 0
<Should be zip... this is way toxic>
No3 0 - .05
NH4 0
KH 161
GH 35
I do a weekly water change of 1/3 or more water along with cleaning
filter.
What am I doing wrong?
<I would not use the "Fix"... and you should investigate the water
quality needs/ranges, compatibility of these fishes... not a good
mix>
Thank you again for all of your help. Lesley
<Bob Fenner> |
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Furan compounds - 03/14/2005
I must ask one question if I may. Where does one fine
Nitrofuranace? I have looked all over the internet and I would love to
have some on hand just in case it is needed. I didn't know you had a
post until just now, and I am not sure how to post on it if/when need to
ask for advice.
Thank you again.
Lesley
<Ahh, search for either Nitrofuran or Furanace... or even "Furan
compounds".
Bob Fenner> |
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Thank you for your help, I will rush out and buy some.
PS. I was also reading up on some of what people have to say about
their Elephantnose being a bully, my experience is yes, typically when
they are coming into adolescences. As you can see from my pictures, my
guy is very small. He was only 3" when I got him. He is about 5" now,
two years later. As he is getting older, he bullies my large 6" Rainbow
around, yoyo loaches, and others. He will boot their behinds right out
of there own hiding spot or just boot/ram them because. However, I
don't see it as any big deal, they are territorial and I think it comes
with any fish. Sometimes my yoyo loach won't even budge; after a while,
Mr. Elephantnose moves on. During feeding the same thing will happen,
he knows when food is coming. (As you saw in pictures) and he is not
going to starve because of some big fish.
LOL.
Anyhow, finding out that you know a lot about Elephantnoses, I am very
excited about finding a med that will work. Right now, when needed, I
use Melafix, which works just ok. I used to use ECO-Revive - just can't
seem to find it on-line any longer through Fish-vet. One of my fishes in
my tank I believe has gill flukes and Mr. Elephantnose may have
contacted them.
<Mmm, usually these trematodes don't span so far twixt host groups>
He has been flashing and then the spot where he is was rubbing (on his
backside) he breaks out in white fluff. Melafix has only helped with
the fluff I am sure. He hasn't been rubbing since, but this is the
second time it has happen in all of the two + years I have had him, and
both outbreaks were within 6 weeks time, so I am only waiting. (2 weeks
to go?) This is how I found you.
Anyhow, I am just rambling, Thank you again for the info, and if you
have any other info you can help me with, wonderful, I will take it.
Lesley
<My little knowledge re Mormyrids rests mainly at either ends of the
spectrum of commercial/wholesale handling and physiology... Bob Fenner>
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Elephant nose with white patches - 03/09/2006
Hi
I have had an Elephant Nose for four years. In the past couple of months he
has been developing white patches which do go away after a couple of days, but
then reappear after a couple of weeks. The white patches go from his nose and
head all the way down his back, and a small patch on the underside. They are
smooth and not dotty or raised at all, and the strange thing about it is that
the patches always appear the same, the edges are very regular, and symmetrical
to both sides of the fish. He doesn't appear to behave a lot differently when he
has it, although he tends to hide away behind his rock a lot less than when he
doesn't have the white bits.
<Have seen such recurring issues... invariably they are rooted in
inappropriate environment>
The closest information I can find is that the patches appear where I think
the fish has electrical receptors for mating, but not sure if this is connected.
Do you have any idea what this could be and why it's happening?
Thanks,
Jenny.
<Is your water quality suitable for this species? Is stress otherwise minimized?
Bob Fenner>
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