Dead elephant nose
I bought an elephant nose about a month ago and lost him 3 wks ago, after reading your information on them, I wish I would have had the feeding test done, then I would have known not to buy him, he would not eat and got skinnier and skinnier, it was horrible, I brought him to the pet store, and he wouldn't eat for them either, they treated him for internal parasites for a wk in a half and he still didn't look good.
<Likely too far gone from the process of (likely chemical) collection in the wild, starving, poor water quality from there through shipping, handling... Happens to whole shipments at times>
So from what I read what you have wrote, do you have any ideas in what I could do to keep my elephant nose alive, when I buy one in the near future. Do you have any idea to why he wouldn't eat, because I did ask them how long was he here before I bought him and they said 3 wks, and he look good, apparently not or he would have ate. Also my water was good where it should be, so I can't figure why he wouldn't eat?
<Morymyrids find aquatic worms almost irresistible... try blackworms, tubificids... if the specimen/s don't take these, I would leave them at the shop>
If you could help me it would be appreciated, I don't know any where else to turn to there is not a lot of people that know about these fish.
<There is considerable known about their esoteric biology, but not much popularized re their practical husbandry... Many die from jumping out (for lack of an adequate aquarium cover) and metal poisoning from errant medicine treatment for instance... Easily avoided>
Thanks, Sincerely
Shelley
<Bob Fenner> 

Monogeneans from the gills of Mormyrid fishes
Dear Profesor,
<Blahoua>
I hope you will understand this message easily; my English is quite poor.
<No worries>
I am called BLAHOUA KASSI Georges. I am a doctorate of the university of Cocody-Abidjan (Ivory Coast). I undertake my research in Laboratory of Hydrobiology. I just red in the internet one of your publications which title is: “The Elephantfishes, family Mormyridae, in Aquariums My topic concerns the Monogenean from the gills of Mormyrid fishes.
Concerning the bibliography, I have some difficulties because I don't have any previous publications. I will be duly grateful you send me publications on “Gills Monogenean parasites from Mormyrid fishes”. You can also give me names and e-mails of some persons who have worked on my topic that you know.
Doing so you will help me a lot in my research works.
Best wishes in 2005.
Sincerely yours.
<I suspect you don't have easy access to large library collections as well do here. Where would I send this material? Bob Fenner>
BLAHOUA KASSI GEORGES
Address postale : University of Cocody, UFR Biosciences,
LABORATORY OF HYDROBIOLOGY
22 BP 582 Abidjan 22 (Coast of Ivory)

Elephant vs. Parrot
Hello, <Hi, Don here>
We added an elephant nose to our tank about a week ago. He quickly found his shelter in a flower pot and has seemed happy. Last night (and maybe before but we hadn't seen it) he began exhibiting some aggressive behavior towards some of the larger tank mates. He totally ignores most unless he bumps into to them while rooting around for dinner. We have two parrot fish about 3 years olds. Last night he seemed to be attacking them. One was in another flower pot and had no trouble defending his territory. The EN seemed to be attacking the larger parrot who was hanging out mostly towards the top. He would swim along feeling with his trunk and a couple of time I found him up in the gills of the parrot. <This does not sound like an attack, more like probing for food. EN do have an electrical sense, but it is not strong enough to kill. Was he ramming, or trying to bite?> If this was an intentional attack it was very cunning and probably shouldn't be a surprise. <I would be. Smart fish, but not smart enough to reach in and rip out the gills> But I thought that the EN were only aggressive to their own kind. <My understanding as well. But each fish has their own traits. You can not always predict how some will react> The parrot was dead this morning. <Sorry to hear> What I am now trying to figure out is if the EN killed our parrot or if the parrot was on the way out the door and got a little push. The parrot was fine until dinner time last night and refused to eat and had lost his brilliant orange color. The EN could have been attacking him for a couple of days and weakened him. He did eat the night before and thought he ate yesterday morning but not entirely positive. He typically is the last one we had to worry about eating. Any thoughts on whether I have a fish eating EN would be helpful. If he is going to work his way through my tank until he is the last fish standing, he might be finding a different home. <Being more active at night, it's hard to say. From your description of the interaction you saw, I'd say "no". But who knows what was going on in the dead of night. A few other points. You do not mention if you Qt'd the EN. Possible he brought something in with him. Also possible that adding him taxed your bio filtration and you had a small ammonia spike. Either could be fatal to a stressed or weakened fish. Finally, what do you feed him? They are fond of small worms and such. If you changed or increased feeding when you added him, it is possible that is also taxing your filtration. Please check your water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.>  
I have seen many questions about the black spots appearing on parrot fish. In the three years I have had them, I noticed the black spots were great indicators of water quality and stress (this may have been answered and I missed it). It is not a disease. I know the first time we had it, I ran around reading about it but a quick water change and they were cured overnight. No medicines are needed. <Good to know. Thanks for passing this along> I don't support the way the fish are produced and sold but once they are home they should be well cared for. <Agreed, but will add that buying this fish only results in more being produced. Same with "painted" fish. Cruel as it sounds, if they were left to die in the fish store the manager would not order more. But you are correct in saying that once you have them you must give them the best of care.>  
Thanks
Dan

Elephant vs. Parrot
Thanks for the reply Don. <My pleasure>
The water quality is stable. The tank is a 90 gal tank with Emp 400 and hot 250 filters. <Seems great, but...>  Ph 7.2, ammonia .25 (always the same reading)<...if you always have ammonia you are underfiltering for the bio load in the tank. Or you have a bad test kit. Take a sample to your LFS and have them verify.> and zero nitrites. Nitrate .2 as well. <I assume this is 20ppm? If really .2, or even 2.0, I doubt it would show on your test. Anything below 20ppm is great. But lower is always better.> 1 lg. parrot (was 2), 6 small Cory's, 2 SAE's, 3 blk skirt tetras, 3 red tetras, 7 dwarf neon rainbows, 1 clown Pleco, 1 brushy Pleco, 1 Elephant Nose (EN). We feed flakes in the morning and then frozen food at night with some blood worms after dark for the EN. We didn't really change the amount too much just the timing of the feeding. So far the Cory's clean up what is left by the EN, if not we remove any excess. <Yeah, but what the Corys eat will still become waste. Removing is the key, uneaten or digested. What is concerning me here is that .25 ammonia reading. If verified then you need to reduce the bio load or add more bio filtration. More likely this is the cause of the Parrots problem than the EN killing him, IMO. Adding the EN may have been just the last straw that raised your ammonia production over the ability of your filters to convert it. Another possible source of the ammonia is old fish waste in the gravel, under rocks, in caves, etc,. Removing the ammonia will do more for your tank than removing the Elephant Nose. If you can add another 400, I'd do it. In fact, I have. I run two on a 55 gallon Pleco tank.>      
Last night I noticed him going after our other Parrot (last one for us.) The parrots have large gill openings and he would run along the body with his snout and the enter the gill opening and appeared to be trying to wiggle through with some force. I am still not sure if this is caused by his poor eyesight and if he feels a hole he must enter or if he is trying to do damage to the fish. I cannot see if he is actually taking bites of the gill tissue but he is far enough in. I may have a mutant EN on my hands. <I still think this is more of a feeding activity than aggression. In the wild he would probe all the little nooks and crannies in his area looking for worms. I would think a dead or dying fish would be a good hunting ground. But all this is just a guess on my part. I have never seen this behavior and can find not mention of it. Don>  
Thanks
Dan

Do you know where to get freshwater dolphin (Mormyrus tapirus)
<Sorry, no. I have seen them at a few Fish/Pet stores. I did a search on Aquabid.com, but none listed right now. Check with the manager of your LFS. Many times fish will show up on his venders list, but are not ordered. He may be able to get them for you. Don>  
Sky McDougal

Freshwater fish electro-sense question
I recently bought an elephant fish. today my girlfriend surprised me with a black ghost knife. They are both about 3in and are in a 34 gallon tank with separate very good hiding spots. will there 'electro-senses' clash?
< There have been some studies on these electromagnetic fields generated by these fish but not much in the popular aquarium literature. But I am sure that they are aware of each other.>
also how sensitive are they to salt?
< These fish come from clean warm acidic water and have become very sensitive to salt.-Chuck>
I use a little less then the recommended dose of aquarium salt (1tbsp per 5 gallon). tank also includes 6 glass cats and a blue lobster.
thanks for your time.
-Zac
 

Mormyrid Madness Hi, I have a Dolphin which is in the same family as the (elephant nose) fish. I have attached a picture of what it looks like. <Mormyrus tapirus> I have had it for about 7 months. I have it in a 75 gallon in with 5 Angels and 3 Discus. The aquarium is by a window but we have really thick blinds and we keep them closed. The aquarium doesn't receive direct light. I keep up with regular water changes. I have well water with a softener. My ph is high (about 8) but consistent. The temp is at 80. The nitrate is in the safe, the Nitrite is at the higher side of the safe levels but it may be because I have been feeding more lately. <Sounds like it might be time for a better test kit.  Please consider anything above zero as harmful, for nitrite; there really is no other "safe" level for this.  Nitrate is of much less concern, as long as it's not terribly high, it's okay.  What is your ammonia level?  Be sure to check that as well.> I feed at night, first a little flake to the Angels & Discus, then I feed either frozen Bloodworms, live Blackworms, or occasionally their favorite earthworms. <All good> They have all been doing really great except for just recently. About 2 months ago I noticed the Dolphin started going up to the other fish and it looked like it was rubbing it's nose/mouth on them. He started chasing/bugging them more and it has only got a lot worse with time. It has got so back that he will not leave the Discus alone. The Dolphin messes with them so much that the Discus have white marks on there sides and there fins are in bad, torn up condition. The Dolphin bug them so much that the Discus stay in one corner up at the top of aquarium. <This is *very* bizarre; this is a normally quite peaceful fish - it seems you ended up with the exception to the rule here.> I thought maybe if I feed them more the Dolphin wouldn't bother them so much. I started feeding twice a day. I also cut the hours I keep the hood lights on from 12 hrs down to 8 now thinking maybe this would help. Nothing has worked. I don't know what to do... My Discus must be very strong as I can't believe they are still alive with the stress they are put under & the condition they are now in. I don't think they will be able to hold out long. <They do sound pretty bad off, indeed.  I would be, too, in their situation - I don't much like my pals biting me ;) > I hate getting rid on my Discus but don't what them to suffer. I don't notice the Dolphin bugging the Angels quit as much as the Discus but I don't know if it will get worse if I remove the Discus. <It sounds to me like your best bet is going to be to remove the "problem" fish.  I don't think this bizarre aggression is going to subside.  If it were me, I'd keep the discus and either house the Mormyrid in a different tank or find it a new home.> Could you please let me know any suggestions/help you may be able to give or referrals? <You could *try* removing the Mormyrid to a separate tank for a week or two, let the discus recuperate, completely redecorate the tank, and reintroduce the Mormyrid.  I wouldn't hold high hopes of this working, but it's worth a shot.  You could also put a divider in the tank, giving the Mormyrid his own space and keeping the discus and angels safe from harm.> I would very much appreciate your time. Thanks in advance,  Robyn <Hope all goes well with your little pal - good luck!  -Sabrina>

Elephantnose project Mr. Fenner, <Hello there> My friend and I have decided to do our science fair project about Elephantnoses. After experimentation I wish to keep them as pets. I have sent the details of the project in the attachment. I was wondering if you could look it over and give any feedback.  <Interesting experiment. Might I ask, how do you intend to produce your electromagnetic field? How to measure it?> In no way do I wish to cause the fish and harm or distress. I want them to be as comfortable in their environment as physically possible. <Mmm, this will not happen in your model... Mormyrids (and other electrogenic fishes) are "driven crazy" by even the introduction of electrical conductive (metal) materials in their systems... as you will find> Right now I have 5 Elephantnoses in a 55 gallon tank. They seem to be territorial but not attacking one another aggressively.  <You are likely "right at" some maximum number... they can be crowded temporarily at much higher densities, but don't "get along" at about more than one per twenty, thirty gallons at "adult" size> Usually they lightly bump into one another and like to swim around the tank in a group. I am very persistent about water conditions and check them everyday. If there are any particular products that work well and are not toxic to the Elephantnoses that you feel are useful, I would really appreciate any suggestions. <It appears they are doing well in your care> These are some of the most magnificent and intriguing fish I have ever encountered. They are curious and playful like none others I have seen. <And some of the most intelligent fishes... as gauged by the relative size, shape of their brains. Bob Fenner> Thank You, Brandi Alderson

Research Plan Attachment A.     Question What effect does varying strengths of electromagnetic field have on the behaviour of Elephant Noses? B.     Hypothesis It is believed that the higher the strength of the electromagnetic field, the more confused the fish will be.  This will cause them to retreat and hide. C.     Procedure We will observe the fish for a half hour each day for 5 days, videotape and log each observation, without subjecting them to any change. We will then, once a day, subject the fish to an electromagnetic field of increasing strength. The increasing magnetic field will not produce any direct effect in the fish. However, when they move, the magnetic field should distort the electrical pulses the fish themselves emit. This may cause them to “see” things that aren’t there. We will then study the fish’s responses to this field. It might confuse the fish, but shouldn’t harm them in any way. No non-vertebrates fit our requirements as an electromagnetic emitting and sensing organism with observable social behaviour. We will not be electrifying the fish and will discontinue the experiment if the fish show obvious signs of discomfort or exhibit potentially hazardous behaviour.  D. Bibliography  AquariumFish.net “Elephant Nose Fish for Sale” [online]. 2003. [cited 8/21/03]. Available from World Wide Web: <URL: http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/elephant_nose.htm>  Aquazoo. “Elephant Nose” [online]. 2000. [cited 9/2/03]. Available from World Wide Web: <URL: http://www.aquazoo.co.uk/page.cfm/Type=Fish/ID=286>  Algone Corporation. “Proper Feeding of Your Aquarium Fish” [online]. [cited 9/2/03]. Available from World Wide Web: <URL: http://www.algone.com/feeding_your_fish.htm>  Robert, Fenner. “The Elephantfishes, family Mormyridae, In Aquariums” [online]. [cited 9/2/03]. Available from the World Wide Web:  <URL: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mormyrids.htm  ILAR Journal. “Behavioural Research Outside the Laboratory” [online]. 1996 [cited 9/8/03]. Available from World Wide Web: <URL: http://dels.nas.edu/ilar/jour_online.asp?id=jour_online>  Schliewen, Ulrich. Translated by Kimber, Rita and Robert. “Loaches, Flying Foxes and Elephant-trunk Fishes.” Aquarium Fish. Barron’s Educational Series, Inc. Hong Kong, 1992.  Levine, Joseph S. The Complete Fishkeeper: Everything Aquarium Fishes Need to Stay Happy, Healthy, and Alive, William Morrow and Company, Inc. New York, New York. 1991.

"Freshwater dolphin" too vague... (Mormyrid search)
I think I've fallen in to the trap of "common names" being used among those who don't know the difference (myself included).
<Easy to do>
I have been looking for a M. tapirus and as of late had little luck.
<The "Western" Dolphin... don't think I have ever seen this species offered in the West (the U.S.)... comes out of Cameroon and Guinea... sometimes imports from here are offered in Germany, other European countries>
However, I was speaking with a LFS as he received his weekly "list" and he said "oh, I can get the freshwater dolphin you've been wanting".  I replied
"oh really, the M. tapirus", he says, "uh, yeah, sure, it's the Mormyrus dolphin".  Well, I asked to verify, we looked up a picture and I chanced it.
  The fish will be in later this week and I'm now thinking it may be a M. longirostris.  It seems these two species are very similar and even both are commonly referred to as a freshwater "dolphin".
<Yes... the "Eastern" Dolphin is what is primarily seen in the United States>
  It also seems the M. long. is much more common than the M. tap. and therefore that's why I think it's not the tap.
Any thoughts?
<Pertaining to what?>
I've looked hard for information on the both of these, trying to find enough info to ID my potential specimen.  I use fishbase.org a lot and, based on my findings, there, I do believe the tap. is the one I really want.  I'll gladly send a pic and more info once I receive it.  Any insight would be most appreciated.  I would feel badly not taking the specimen he gets in, but I also don't want to be misinformed as to what species I actually have.
In search of M. tapirus...
Sincerely,
Dana Irby
Hendersonville, TN
<Perhaps a trip to Africa? Or to Germany? Bob Fenner>

Mormyrid search
Thanks for your reply.  From your comments, it sounds as though the M. tap. is not available here in the U.S. so I guess it really doesn't matter what they call it here...it's most likely M. long.
<Yes>
Sorry for being so wordy and vague about what I was wanting from you.
Ultimately, you answered my question and any further questions regarding M. tap. would be a mute point anyway.
<No worries>
I'll just see what happens.
Thanks again and have a wonderful day!!!
Dana Irby
<You as well. Bob Fenner>

Mr. Fenner,
RE: your article
"The Elephantfishes, family Mormyridae,  In Aquariums"
on the: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mormyrids.htm website...   
I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading your superbly informative article about the Mormyrids.  I grew up a fish buff but was not able to maintain my aquariums while in college.  However, I have been bitten by the fish bug once again.
<Ahh, welcome back "to the fold">
I've got a 55 set up with some Congo Tetras, Clown Loaches, and soon some baby Royal Plecos.  I was thinking of adding some Elephantnose fish.  However, I noticed you wrote they inhabit muddy waters in the wild.
<Yes>
  I have a lot of filtration on my tank.  A lot of driftwood and lava rock too...  stacked up to the top with java moss everywhere.  But, the water moves a lot.  Do you think Elephantnose fish would do okay in moving water?
<Yes... though the water will likely be much clearer, more vigorous in movement, these are adaptable fishes. They will greatly enjoy your driftwood and Java Moss>>
  I've got 2 Hagen 400 and one Hagen 802 (?) powerheads, one of the larger small Eheims, a supreme AquaMaster and some air hooked up to an undergravel filter...  all blowing the water counterclockwise as I am north of the equator.
<I see. No problem>
  Wet-dry filter, carbon, peat moss, 6.5-7.0 pH, 80 degrees F.  So, the thing to do is please let me know if you think
Elephantnose fish would be okay in my turbulent setup.  Thanks in advance for your time.  
Sincerely, Dr. Gregory Findura
<If you can locate all the specimens that you intend to keep, do place them all at once to lessen the likelihood of interspecific aggression. Oh, and please do write back and tell us how they are doing. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wallaby wood
Thanks for the quick reply. The specimen marketed under the name "wallaby wood" was purchased at my LFS, my research seems to suggest that it is actually Swahala wood from the dark reaches of mighty Africa.
<Ahh, I do know this product>
Nobody at different LFS stores seem to know much about it although they all stock and sell it. Their instructions are all similar, just soak in hot water for 1-2 days and it will be fine, no staining of water and if there is any, well the filtration system will clear it up. Well 8 days later of soaking and boiling
it in my huge lobster pot still produces a beautiful light brown water which would make any ice tea company proud! Thank you for your input, I will not give up, sodium bicarbonate is next. Quick follow-up on one of my earlier ?'s regarding sexing of the Mormyrid "elephant nose fish", after researching bibliography came across small paragraph stating that "the fish with the more curved anal fin is the male". Just thought you may like to know. Thanks again Stephen
<Thank you for this. Have heard similar statements. Bob Fenner>

Elephant nose fish
Hello Mr. Fenner
I have been away from the hobby for ten years now I am back with renewed enthusiasm, much more patience , and financially stable. It is wonderful how the internet has opened up the realm of knowledge for all ages and levels.
<Wish I had written the above. Agreed>
I am particularly fond of your site, visit it every other day.
I am fascinated with the elephant nose fish and was wondering if you knew how to identify male and females, I was considering an attempt at breeding despite warnings of the difficulty of captive breeding (makes the challenge even more attractive). That's all for now. Thank you for your time and expertise.
Stephen
<Don't know and didn't find sexual dimorphic information (other than the amounts of EOD (Electrical emittance) of newly imported specimens (females are "quieter") any external differentiating circumstances. Do read over the references listed here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mormyrids.htm and consider a bibliographic search... and writing up the popular captive husbandry of this species. Bob Fenner>

Re: elephant nose fish
thank you for the quick reply. I suspected that this undertaking would take quite a bit of research perhaps from obscure sources but that makes it more fun. Interesting about the EOD, I just picture myself walking into the LFS and hooking up my Radio shack piezoelectric earphone ,which allows you to hear the electric signals of the elephant fish ,and trying to differentiate which ones are "quieter." It would be quite a humorous scene!
<Yes... a good idea>
Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. look forward to our next dialogue.
Regards,
Stephen
<Do look into doing a biblio. on the species, family, electrogenic fishes in general. Bob Fenner>

Longnosed elephant fish
Dear Mr. Fenner:
I would like to put elephant fish
<will assume we're discussing Mormyrids>
into a 10gal tall aquarium, but I have read many different opinions on this fish. I would like to ask you about them. Are they aggressive, or calm? 
<Not aggressive, as in "mean" toward other fishes, unless they are very small... but not "calm" in the sense that they do move around quite a bit at night time... 
I would like to have four (4) elephant in this tank. Would that be ok? 
<Hmmm, actually, no... at your prompting, I'll place a piece I wrote and revised some time back... and images on the freshwater part of the website: www.WetWebMedia.com... look for it tomorrow... You want just one of these fishes in such a size system... they're electrogenic... don't care for being crowded with other such fishes>
since I was told that they like to be in schools. 
<In the wild, yes>
Does four make a school? Also what kind of bottom should I have, gravel or sand, have read both, or doesn't it really matter. I believe these fish are bottom dwellers, and if this is correct, could I put another type of fish with it? 
<Yes on all counts>
If that would be ok, what kind of fish would you recommend. I have another tank with just Cichlids in it, and I know that I would not be able to mix them.
<Other African animals from the same region would be my suggestion. Use Fishbase.org for help here perhaps... Otherwise, "community" fishes that aren't "mean".>
I appreciate your help with this matter. Thanking you in advance for any and all help and advice you are able to give me. I am just a beginner, and want to learn the right way to do things. Thanks again.
<Glad to help you. Bob Fenner>
Sincerely, Shirley

Longnose elephant fish
Dear Mr. Fenner:
I am inquiring about the long nose elephant fish. 
<Mormyrids, Africans... freshwater for the unitiated browsers>
I have several and they seem to be doing well, except I am not sure if they are eating or not. I have tried flake food and they didn't seem to like that at all. 
<Nope. Won't sustain them at any length.>
Then I read that I should be feeding them live black worms. The problem is when I put the worms in the tank, I can't get the fish attention, and they don't seem to know that the worms are there. What am I doing wrong? 
<Maybe the time frame... they're mainly nocturnal feeders in the wild... and I would try other live foods as well... Chironomid larvae (bloodworms), Brine Shrimp, Daphnia... or small trials of these and other once-live foods that come frozen/defrosted... at "lights off" time>
Is there a better way to feed these fish the black worms? Please help, as I really enjoy these fish. Also I think I read somewhere that you can breed the black worms yourself, if you have any information on this, I would really appreciate it forwarded to me. 
<Yikes... will have to resurrect some "pre-computer" writing efforts, or move up the "to be written" "live foods/feeding" projects... and quick. Do try the above suggestions for now...>
I appreciate all of your help and any and all information that you could provide me. Thanking you in advance for your help.
Sincerely, Shirley Schiavone
<You're welcome. I'll try to get to the live foods articles, even the coverage of the family Mormyridae... but this will likely take a couple of months... write in the meanwhile if you have specific questions. Bob Fenner>