FAQs about Cardinalfishes, Family Apogonidae
2
Related Articles: Cardinalfishes,
Related FAQs: Cardinalfishes 1, & FAQs on: Cardinal ID, Cardinal
Behavior, Cardinal Compatibility,
Cardinal Selection, Cardinal Systems, Cardinal Feeding, Cardinal Disease, Cardinal Reproduction, &
Banggai Cardinals,
Banggai ID, Banggai Behavior, Banggai Compatibility, Banggai Selection, Banggai Systems, Banggai Feeding, Banggai Disease, Banggai Reproduction,
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Regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs
etc. 2/16/08 Well Bob and the rest of the
crew, I have to say the site is good as is though some ideas as
to what might make it better I can only suggest maybe going over
the FAQ's and picking some info out of them to flesh out the
initial discussion of the species, <A worthy suggestion...
I'd go further and suggest that someone with a discerning
mind could likely re-organize the FAQs contents themselves (as I
do almost daily in "splitting up" FAQs files into
sub-FAQs categories...) taking them out of the present
"order" (mostly chronological in series of pages), and
placing them as being more pertinent and thorough, to less
so...> there is a great difference in the discussions in some
of them versus others. <This is so!> Much great info is in
the FAQ sections though I am apt to agree with other users they
are difficult to navigate. <And I'll brook no disagreement
with this... What I am up against is practical limitations on my
time... it takes about all I have to finish answering, fixing
spelling/grammar, other formatting issues, and placing, building
content... the hand-ful of hours per day is all there is... I
must need "earn my daily bread"... and four other
categorical daily patterns... All told, am limited...> Now
even still this being the case, one can't really complain
about these things, and please know I am not complaining in any
way, heck if you have to dig for it so be it the site is FREE!!!!
<Mmm, but I do know there are ways of presenting the
information better... and have only thanks for the MANY hours
friends have aided my efforts here... IF I had or could make the
site/s more profitable, I would likely hire/pay for professional
help in making the content easier to search and more
attractive...> You all are very helpful and while yes everyone
has their own personal writing style when you reach out for free
help, not a paid consultant, its hard to complain of the answer
you get. Now regarding the obvious question that my own question
poses, which is " All right Forrest if you think some one
should go through the FAQ's then who is gonna do it?"
well while I in no way consider myself knowledgeable enough to
create new content I would give it a shot to distil some
reoccurring info from the FAQs of course I too have a Full time
job so I can't say I could donate a great deal of time to
this endeavor, only would like to help the people that help me as
best I know how. <Ahhh! I thank you for coming forward> If
you want me to take a stab at it I will, If I have been
presumptuous I am sorry, If I have offended, again I am sorry.
<Nay, no offense at all. I am grateful for your input and
help> I would like to close by saying thanks to all of you who
give of your time and efforts to pass on your hard earned
knowledge FOR FREE, This is admirable and should be appreciated
by the people that are writing you. I am sorry that some do not
appreciate it, and am also sorry if I ever seemed I did not.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. Thanks Crew, Forrest
<Please do "pick" a category/FAQs series if you
will... consolidate, modify as you think best, and send to me for
posting. I do want to encourage you to consider becoming a
content provider in our interest... A sure-fire way to learn for
sure, and I will gladly help you, provide image work if I can,
and help you in what other ways I may... including introducing
you to the 'zine (pulp and e-) editors. Very easy to make
outlines and fill-them-in while scanning through the FAQs
files... Bob Fenner>
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Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs
etc. will give it a stab, as this will take much time how do I
submit to you? in email? rtf. txt. <I think most all formats
will work. Rich Text is fine> etc. thanks as to content
providing, all I can say is not yet :) I know my qualifications,
the best I can do is maybe deal with some "Beginner type
questions and try my best to refer to texts, FAQ areas etc.
<Ahh! This is the larger part of the "market">
also, while Familiar with Patent Law know nothing of Copyright Law
so do not want to do anything wrong, need not end up in a
"Fair Use " legal action :) <Mmm, don't think this
is, will be a concern> I guess I will start with Cardinals as a
Live stock category as they are my favorites behind the gobies and
there is just too much to deal within the goby section as a first
attempt. <Great!> Will do my best, will absolutely use spell
check and Grammer check, I am the king of Typos and know it. <I
have learned the better part of English from the corrections of
these devices... an ongoing process> Though we never touched on
the topic, of course this is gratis, just want you to know I know
that I am volunteering. <Heeeee! I also> Thanks for the
opportunity if nothing else in this regard , of course thanks again
for the valuable info and time :) Forrest
<Thank you. BobF> |
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs
etc. hey convenient you should get back to me at this moment,
yes I keep my email open at all times, yes I know that is sad, so I
am taking notes from the pages, wondering if you have a preference
as to how to lay this out, current idea is to have a short
"blurb" followed by some "fun facts" then a bit
about the "family" then break into specifics for BC's
PJ's and then some "others" there seems to be little
that deals with the other members of the family, I know these guys
are the biggies, heck they are the ones I like. :) well I am gonna
keep taking notes :) oh you want me to do Fresh and brackish also?
as I have time of course. <I leave all the specifics here to
you. Develop the layout as you deem fit. BobF> |
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs
etc. oh one other suggestion, if at all posible, would be great
if the links at the tops of a page within a group, such as the card
I am working on right now, were all the same. know this maybe take
a bit off effort, hopefully not too much, but might be helpful to
everyone. Thanks again and I just finished reading am compiling
notes right now :) <Mmm, could you send along an example?
BobF> |
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs
etc. 2/16/08 well here is a first attempt,
let me know what needs changed if anything. Thanks and lets all
hope this cuts down on redundant questions <Forrest... this is
a wonderful rendering. Boost it a few hundred words, toss in some
pix (which I'll gladly lend you gratis)... and I'll help
you sell it. Very nice indeed. Bob Fenner>
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs etc., Apogonid
pc. first... 2/18/08 wow really?!! I will give it hell
Bob I'll give it hell. I have some other sources I can use to
flesh it out more, at first just trying to pull only from te FAQs
but if you say so I will give it a shot, thanks for the vote of
confidence. Forrest <My friend... your synthesis,
syncretization is that good. I wish to encourage you further....
for all's edification, gain. BobF>
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs etc.
2/21/08 I would like to say how much that really means to me.
You suggest boosting it a few hundred words, would you suggest a
deeper discussion of the already mentioned species? <Or
aspects of the family's biology, captive husbandry>
feeding etc. ? or add in more species? Thanks for the help.
<I'd stick with the most popular species... Do you want me
to send along my hard drive pix of the Apogonids? Do you mind
loading Pando.com? BobF>
Re: regarding the site/ improvements/ inputs etc.
2/23/08 ok now that I am on my personal computer, I have
downloaded Pando. I can get to work on the bio and husbandry
sections soon, should be able to finish by tomorrow night. Thanks
again, Forrest <Will send you my Apogonid pix... after am done
with the gig of crustaceans going out to LynnZ. B>
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Cardinal Fish, The family
Apogonidae. 2/16/08 By Forrest
Phillips
These beautiful slow moving and generally
peaceful mouth brooders make excellent aquarium pets when kept
with other peaceful tank mates.
Some interesting facts about these
fish:
- They are Gonochorist Paternal Mouth brooders, meaning they
do not change sex, they are hatched a sex and stay it, and that
the father holds the eggs and sometimes the babies in his
mouth.
- They are carnivorous and will attempt to eat most things
that will fit in their mouth, including crustacean and
fish.
- In the wild Cardinals, Banggais come to mind, will
associate with Long Spine Urchins, But in the confines of
aquaria have been observed to hide in the tentacles of corals
and anemones such as elegance coral and Long Tentacled
Anemones.
Some species specifics:
PJ cardinals, Sphaeramia
nematoptera, are best kept in odd numbered groups, say
3,5,7 etc. Solo PJ's have been known to waste away over
time, even formerly voracious eaters may stop eating if kept
alone.
Some compatible fish to go along with
your PJ's include the fire goby (Nemateleotris
magnicifica ), seahorses, and most other peaceful fish that
will not harass or attempt to eat them. These fish also go by
the name of Polkadot Cardinal fish.
PJ's will eat most carnivore
preparations. Please, please, PLEASE, do not feed them a diet
of only brine shrimp. Gut loaded brine shrimp or baby live
bearers may be necessary to elicit a feeding response
initially, but do switch to a more nutritious food such as
mysis shrimp, Cyclops, or other carnivore prepared foods as
soon as possible. Sweetwater plankton and New Life spectrum
pellets are also good choices. A varied diet is always
best.
Some tank mates to be avoided include
Sally light foot Crabs, and for that matter all true crabs,
larger clownfish, Flame Hawkfish Tangs and other "Fast
Movers" as well as Banggais in most systems. There are of
course other poor choices, do research on the other fish
especially anything that could potentially eat these peaceful
fish.
Banggai Cardinals (Pterapogon kaudneri )
are interesting in that the young exit the males mouth fully
formed, and are ready to eat newly hatched Artemia, Baby Brine
Shrimp as they are commonly known.
Banggai Cardinals share much in common
with the above mentioned PJs. One very important behavioral
difference is that a single Banggai is quite happy by itself. The
aggression between Banggais, called conspecific aggression, is
often fatal to the subdominant fish. A subdominant BC will
usually demonstrate a color of dark gray to black and shy and
subdued behavior.
There is good news however for those
wishing to keep more than one. If you have a large enough system,
BC's can be kept in large shoals, say 10 or so individuals,
this does require a large system though. Another option is to
keep a breeding pair. If you can, watch them at the fish store
and look for a pair. They will be seen together and trying to
push away the others in the tank. If however this is not possible
obtain a small group. A group of 5 is a good number, this will
give you a good chance of getting at least one male and female in
this Gonochorist fish. Once a pair has formed they will begin to
harass the remaining three fish. At this point you will want to
isolate the pair from the remaining fish.
The male will hold the eggs for
approximately 21-25 days, though this is temperature dependant.
It is a good idea to keep on eye on the male once he stops eating
and observe him for behavior of holding. If you want to raise the
babies there are a great many articles on this topic, a google
search is in order, and a trip to the breeders registry.
As is mentioned above they will eat
eagerly newly hatched Artemia and it has been suggested to slip
some Cyclop-Eeze into the feeding frenzy to increase the
nutritional value of their diet. Pleas report any success using
such a feeding regimen.
If you succeed in keeping a group of
these fish and one dies off, your safest bet is to leave the
remaining fish alone and not try to introduce new fish. If
however you still wish to introduce some new fish, Dip them
Quarantine them then once they are eating what you are feeding
the main tank introduce the new cardinals at the same time as a
group, of at least 2 to disperse aggression from the
invaders.
Some good tank mates for these cardinals
include those suggested for the PJ's and a Flame angel may
also work well if the system is appropriate for the angel. In
larger systems they may be ok with Tangs but exercise due
caution. These fish are easily scared especially upon
introduction.
If you can include a Pod Fuge, a refugium
for growing Amphipods and Copepods, your fish will have access to
food all day. They also enjoy such fare as Mysis shrimp,
Sweetwater plankton, and shredded seafood. They have been
observed to be pretty indiscriminate about the size of their prey
items, though be sure it will fit in their mouths.
If they are being finicky then live brine
shrimp and baby livebearers can elicit a feeding response. Once
eating move in the more nutrient rich foods, they might not
notice in their eagerness to feed on their known food.
Banggais can be obtained from captive
bred sources and it is best to get them as such. They will be
better acclimated to aquarium life and prepared foods. Wild
Banggais are often host to internal parasites such as worms and
protozoans. White stringy Feces is indicative of an internal
parasite. Yellow cysts have also been observed and likely linked
to a bacterial infection. The typical Saltwater diseases will
strike at cardinal fish, such as Crypt and Velvet. Velvet has
been observed to appear as a "cloudy eye" in the
Cardinals. Banggais may also be listed as Hi-fin, High fin, and
Banner cardinal fish.
There are other species of Cardinal
available and for the most part their captive care falls in with
the above mentioned species. Do research individual species
before purchase.
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Pajamas having babies? 10/2/07 Hello Crew, I
have 3 PJ Cardinal in my 30 gallon tank for 2 years. Yesterday i
found out that one of them not eating, and it was hiding behind
some corals. Its mouth was full, like keeping something in its
mouth. <Mmm, yes. I see this> So i did a quick search online,
seems like the PJ Cardinal with a mouth full is a 'male'
that carrying eggs/fry. <Yes... this and the Opistognathids are
the two marine fish families with male mouthbrooding...> I just
want to make sure my information is correct, so i have attached a
picture of the mouth full 'male' (hope the picture is clear
enough. As the PJ is hiding whole day, only manage to take a shoot
during the MH light is off) Please tell me is 'He' carrying
eggs or is 'He' sick.... Thanks.
WS
<Very likely the former. Bob Fenner> |
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Breeding Pajama Cardinals? 10/2/07 Hello - <Hi there>
Yesterday we noticed that one of our two pajama cardinals is holding
eggs in his mouth. <Congrats> I have tried searching online,
however most references about raising cardinal fry are specific to the
Banggai. Do you have any advice on how to try to raise the fry?
<Mmm... a bit... Mostly to set aside enough system... and start
culturing small crustaceans as food...> I have found out that the
pajama cardinals have pelagic larvae... <Yes... as the majority of
reef fishes> and that's about the extent of it. This leads me to
believe there isn't a high success rate, but if it can be attempted
within reason we'd like to give it a try. Thanks, Jim & Pauline
<There is much more in print than on the Net/electronic... Have you
scanned through for Apogonids Reproduction in general? Tried reading
through the Breeder's Registry online? Bob Fenner>
Pajama Cardinal sick... just
lonely 9/25/07 I have a pajama cardinal fish
for about 3-4 weeks now, he started out as the only fish in the
120G aquarium. He was initially housed with 3 peppermint shrimp. He
was a pig, the only thing I can get him to eat as of today though
is Mysis shrimp, he has no interest in anything else (especially
formula 2 pellet). Currently his tank mates include 2 black
ocellaris, and a blue green Chromis, all 4 of these fish are under
an inch and a half long. Ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is
around 15, the only problem I seem to having more recently is a
slight microbubble problem, first we thought it was the pump, I
took it apart and checked all the connections, and after further
testing we figured out that it was the Euroreef RS135 skimmer. In
the last day or so my cardinal stopped being quite so outgoing, no
one bothers him, but he started being slightly less interested in
Mysis, normally he is a pig, but now he takes one and then goes and
hides, not his normal personality. <Actually... about what
usually happens... with solitary Cardinals> I took a much closer
look at him and I found he seems to have some sort of off colored
fuzzy irritated area on his rear underneath his rear flipper. I
have a picture of it right here, I have no Q tank atm... let me
know what you think this might be and what possible treatments
are...Any help is appreciated
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/pedanpedan/cardinal.jpg
its sort of where the lower black part of his black stripe fades
off, normally that's solid black <Stress...> This guy is
my baby, my first fish in the tank would love any advice you can
give. Thank you so much again... Josh
<Are social animals... I'd get two more... Bob
Fenner> |
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Banggai Cardinal...Mixing Cardinals in a 500+ gallon
system. - 7/20/07 Greetings fish lovers <Now that's a title
I can go with! Hi Ian, Mich with you tonight!> I have a 2500l
<660 gallons> full reef system housing about 30 various fish.
<Wow! That's a mighty big tank!> I have two Pajama cardinals
that have been resident for some time and would like to introduce a
couple of Banggai cardinals. Would they get on together if I could try
and match the size? <Mmm, generally no, but in a system of this size
I am fairly confident this shouldn't be a problem. But my
recommendation, as always, is to watch and observe for signs of
trouble, but in tank this size I'd be surprised if they ever saw
each other!> I thought that it would be better to get at least two
newbie's to divide the initial harassment or would there never be
acceptance? <I think you will be ok simply because of your tank
size, though I would try to acquire a mated pair. These fish have been
successfully bred in captivity. More info here and the related links in
blue: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cardinal.htm > At the moment nobody
messes with them so do not really want to turn their world upside down.
<Understandable and respectable.> Thanks for your time and the
advice. <You are most welcome!> Cheers <And to you! Mich>
Ian
Small Water Column Fish -- Revisited, Apogonid
sel. -- 06/15/07 Hey thanks once again Mich. <Welcome!>
I have access to some Apogon cyanosoma (yellow-lined or gold striped
cardinals). Some folks seem to be ok keeping them long term in a small
group, others experience aggression as they mature. Any thoughts on
these? <I have never kept this species of fish, so I'm not able
to draw on personal experience here, but the literature describes these
as one of the "bolder" members of the family and recommends
keeping a group of 5-7 individuals, all introduced at the same time.
You may want to consider dimming your lighting when they are
introduced. There is more info here,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cardinal.htm but nothing as far the behavior
of this species versus others in the genus. It can be difficult to
predict behavior as it can vary greatly between the individual. Other
fish in the system can also impact behavior. I would avoid overcrowding
and provide plenty of hiding places. Good luck! Mich> Randall
Douglas
Hardiness of Pajama Cardinals vs. Banggai Cardinals
2/13/07 Hi again crew, I have been having the same problems with
Banggai Cardinalfish that I have read about on your site-- they cease
to eat, start breathing rapidly, and then die. <Does happen... and
all too often... and this should not be the case... That is, Apogonids
such as these can be, should be raised in captivity... regionally...
and be well-ready to withstand the rigors of moving, captivity...>
All of this happens very quickly. I'm not sure, but I think I
remember them having stringy, white feces as well. Recently, I lost
eight! I bought these eight in groups of three, three, and two, so they
did not all come from the same shipment. I quarantined them
in a 30 gallon bare tank, first all together, and then separated the
next batch into three 10-gallon compartments. I tried FW dips before
quarantining, and when that batch died, I skipped the FW dip. None of
this made any difference. I have kept many more difficult
fish successfully, but I just can't keep the Banggais alive (yes,
the water parameters are all where they should be). <Mmm... I want
to say a few things (thanks for this prompting)... the vast majority of
Pterapogon ARE cultured (somewhat), but still imported (from Indonesia
mainly)... and they ARE way too often BUNK! Your experiences are not
atypical...> The only answer I can comes up with is the mysterious
parasite I have read about which supposedly infects Banggai
Cardinals. I was told the fish I purchased were tank-raised, but who
knows if this is true-- and maybe tank-raised Banggais carry this
parasite as well. So here is my question: are Pajama Cardinals
susceptible to the same parasite? <... not as far as I'm aware,
but have not seen definitive proof of such a parasitic involvement in
the high incidental mortality of this species> I have not seen much
written on your site about the Pajamas since they have been so
overshadowed by the popularity of the Banggais. <Are old-timey
favorites... the two principal species...> Have you been receiving
emails with Pajama Cardinals suffering from the same symptoms and
dropping dead? <Not as far as I recall, no> Also, I read that
while a group of Pajama Cardinals will establish a pecking order, they
do not display conspecific aggression ( aggression to
other Pajama Cardinals, if I used the term incorrectly) to
nearly the same degree as Banggai Cardinals, making it easier to keep
them in a group. Is this true in your experience, or reports from your
readers? <Mmm, yes... though Sphaeramia can indeed be territorial...
though not as often to as the degree as Banggais> As always, thanks
for taking the time to read this and for offering your advice. Art
<Thank you for asking. Bob Fenner>
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